ACLU sues over tax files for Spanish-speaking clients
By Bill Scanlon, Rocky Mountain News (Contact)
Published January 27, 2009 at 11:35 a.m.
Updated January 27, 2009 at 12:02 p.m.
GREELEY — The American Civil Liberties Union has filed suit against the Weld County sheriff and district attorney over the manner in which they seized thousands of tax files from a preparer who serves Spanish-speaking clients.
The officials had evidence against just one client, so they shouldn't have pored through 4,900 of the tax files prepared by Amalia's Translation and Tax Service, looking for others, said Mark Silverstein, legal director for the Colorado ACLU.
Silverstein said it was an invasion of property comparable to police doing a house-by-house search because someone in the neighborhood broke a law.
But Weld County Sheriff John Cooke said he and DA Ken Buck acted properly in the action that began in October.
"We didn't sit there, analyzing everybody's tax return," he said. "We looked for ones that met the criteria of the search warrant — ones that had fake and stolen Social Security numbers."
Cooke said the investigation began when someone from Texas alerted police that someone had stolen his Social Security number.
The number was traced to someone in Greeley who admitted that he was using that number to get work and said he even used it to file his tax returns.
"We didn't really believe him," Cooke said, but after arresting him for identity theft, they asked him where he got his taxes done. He said he went to Amalia's, which is run by Amalia Cerillo.
"And he said that it is well known that illegal aliens from all around the region come to her and get their taxes done," Cooke said.
Amalia's told the Department of Revenue that when a client gives a Social Security number that may be stolen or not real, Amalia's assigns a tax ID number, Cooke said.
But that is on its face illegal — putting both a Social Security number and a tax ID number on the same return, Cooke said.
Weld County officials looked at 4,900 forms and found 1,300 that had the dual numbers, he said.
Buck has filed charges of criminal impersonation or identity threat against hundreds of the suspects.
Illegal aliens aren't supposed to be here and usually aren't supposed to be able to get jobs, but they also are required to pay taxes if they do earn income.
Tax preparers merely are following IRS guidelines when they assign a tax ID number to certain files, says the ACLU.
The ACLU has asked the state district court to order that all copies of the confidential tax return information taken in the search be returned or destroyed, or to be turned over to the court.
"The search violated the privacy rights of thousands of innocent taxpayers who are not suspected of any wrongdoing," Silverstein said.
"If the sheriff and the district attorney can comb through thousands of records of a tax preparer on the theory that some of the clients are doing something wrong, then none of our private information is safe."
Silverstein noted that the class action lawsuit doesn't represent those who've already been charged — they would have to challenge the legality of the search in separate actions.
Cooke said the lawsuit won't deter the investigation.
"We're going to the grand jury, asking for indictments."
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January 27, 2009
11:42 a.m.
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OldSailor writes:
All Criminals Love Us......I hate the ACLU and what it stands for which is destroying the USA.
January 27, 2009
11:46 a.m.
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Scott writes:
Once again the American Communist Litigation Union strikes!
Scott
January 27, 2009
11:59 a.m.
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SteveC writes:
Identity theft, it's ok as long as you can get away with it. At least that's the message the ACLU is going to put across.
January 27, 2009
noon
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anderson writes:
The great thing about the ACLU is that they're consistent in what they do. They will even fight for the rights of those who make stupid and ignorant comments to the RMN.
January 27, 2009
12:03 p.m.
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Triumph writes:
Looks like the ACLU is trying to protect lawbreakers again. If this happened in Greeley they are trying to protect a lawbreaking tax service that illegal aliens used and who stole Americans Social Security numbers & identities.
Strike a blow for Justice, Punch an ACLU attorney!
January 27, 2009
12:12 p.m.
Suggest removal
JSeifert writes:
ACLU should be band from the US. They could care less about the thousands of Americans who had their Social security ID's stolen they only care about the Criminals that are using them.
BOO HOO go back to Mexico where they belong parasites on our country.
January 27, 2009
12:12 p.m.
Suggest removal
Triumph writes:
Gee what a surprise, anderson gravitated to this story to put in his stupid and ignorant two cents concerning a story out of Greeley and his illegal alien pals. We have news for you anderson.
Only lawbreakers need the assitance of the commie ACLU. Maybe you'll need them someday if you are harboring illegal aliens.
January 27, 2009
12:14 p.m.
Suggest removal
anderson writes:
I like how people bend over backwards to mischaracterize what the ACLU does.
Let's see, according to the comments I've read so far, I would expect the ACLU's petition to the court to state the following:
--for the purpose of destroying America,
--we think identify theft is okay
--for the purpose of promoting communism and unions,
--we want to protect law breakers
The great thing about the ACLU is that they're consistent in what they do. They will even fight for the rights of those who make stupid and ignorant comments to the RMN--no matter what. I mean, the purpose of the ACLU's action in this case is clearly spelled out in the article above. It's not rocket science.
January 27, 2009
12:17 p.m.
Suggest removal
anderson writes:
Indigo Blue, I generally try to inform. You are free to remain ignorant as long as you'd like and express the same on the pages of the RMN. The ACLU is here for you.
January 27, 2009
12:20 p.m.
Suggest removal
Scott writes:
Of course anderson sticks up for the American Communist Litigation Union (BTW, I also like OldSailor's versions), he's one of them ... The "L" Word, lawyer. Now I'll have to go wash my hands for typing that filthy word, lawyer.
Scott
January 27, 2009
12:23 p.m.
Suggest removal
anderson writes:
JSeifert: "They could care less about the thousands of Americans who had their Social security ID's stolen"
You know this from?
"they only care about the Criminals that are using them."
Clearly, no one has been convicted of anything. As for the accused, are you saying they should have no rights? Or are you saying that only the accused who were born in Mexico should have no rights?
January 27, 2009
12:24 p.m.
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ThingFish writes:
Why is the disdain for civil liberties exhibited in the comments above somehow not surprising. I would hazard that few of the above posters hold degrees higher than a high school diploma.
January 27, 2009
12:25 p.m.
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anderson writes:
You do consistently make some of the filthiest comments on this forum, Scott.
January 27, 2009
12:27 p.m.
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Scott writes:
Komrade ThingFish,
I have a BS in Electronics with a strong minor (33 semester credit hours) in applied math. Fortunately I stayed away from the commie courses, political "science". ;-)
Oh, and just to torque you jaws. Most blue collar workers, e.g. plumbers, electricians, etc., only have a high school diploma and make more per year than most that have a draft dodger degree, e.g. political science, journalism, etc.
Scott
January 27, 2009
12:29 p.m.
Suggest removal
gs writes:
I'm not a big supporting of the ACLU but this is a good fight. Disagree if you want but if you do disagree keep in mind that everyone probably has something a little questionable on their tax return (even if it is only an honest mistake or someone else filed a 1099 and mixed up a digit so it reads their social security number) at which point the DA gets to go over the whole thing. And if you still disagree then please scan your tax return and tell us all where it is posted.
I don't support illegal immigration either
January 27, 2009
12:30 p.m.
Suggest removal
Triumph writes:
Anderson, the problem is that your so-called information is really misinformation and everybody posting here on this story knows it as well as on the other pages of the RMN. As a self respecting proud American I doubt that I will ever need the services of the commie founded anti- "American Crimminal Litigation Unit". You on the other hand are a different story. Good Luck with your illegal alien friends. You'll need it!
January 27, 2009
12:34 p.m.
Suggest removal
anderson writes:
Ah, the old, my degree's better than your degree argument. You are also consistent in your disdain for everyone different than you, Scott. It comes through loud and clear. If we had kings in this country, you and your degree and your attitude would surely qualify you for a position on the king's rear-end staff.
January 27, 2009
12:35 p.m.
Suggest removal
Triumph writes:
Scott
What do you call 100 ACLU lawyers at the bottom of the ocean?
A good start! :)
January 27, 2009
12:36 p.m.
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Cowboy63 writes:
Using a STOLEN SS# makes you a criminal and aiding someone to use that STOLEN SS# (Amalia Cerillo) makes you a criminal as well. These are thieves, nothing more.
I wonder what her kickback is for helping illegals steal and use the SSNs of thousands of US citizens?
January 27, 2009
12:38 p.m.
Suggest removal
anderson writes:
Indigo Blue, the ACLU, and people like them, have already gone to bat for you whether you know it or not. Here you are, free to express your ignorance unencumbered and uncensored in a public forum.
January 27, 2009
12:38 p.m.
Suggest removal
Ex_Republican writes:
Hey, Scott, way to go! You just proved anderson's point with your last post.
January 27, 2009
12:41 p.m.
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gs writes:
Cowboy,
How are you going to know who's social has been stolen. You have to search everyone's return in order to determine which are stolen don't you? Kind of makes the point?
January 27, 2009
12:52 p.m.
Suggest removal
ThingFish writes:
Scott,
A degree from an unaccredited christian school doesn't count.
January 27, 2009
1:04 p.m.
Suggest removal
datbinnurick writes:
GS - yes you are right, in order to figure out who was violated (by having their identities stolen) the state would actually investigate...but you know what? If it save me a major headache down the road - fine... I don't need my privacy protected if in the end it helps get those criminals punished and my identity restored!
January 27, 2009
1:06 p.m.
Suggest removal
Triumph writes:
anderson
Is that kind of like the illegal aliens have also gone to bat for us by stealing Americans SS#'s and identities? What ever they supposedly have done for me was in reality self serving for their un-American agenda. I'd rather expose your ignorance and or deceit supporting these communists that have never had America's interest at heart unencumbered and unsensored in a public forum.
You should be embarrassed of yourself.
You fail to see that noboby here is buying your lies and exaggerated claims concerning the ACLU just as your support of lawbreaking illegal aliens only shows everyone you lack any credibility what so ever.
Stubborn cuss aren't you!
January 27, 2009
1:06 p.m.
Suggest removal
MGD writes:
"Silverstein said it was an invasion of property comparable to police doing a house-by-house search because someone in the neighborhood broke a law."
In this case it seems more like they are inspecting houses in a neighborhood for dangerous construction when they found that one was built dangerously. If the same builder built them all, it would make sense to check them all, especially if they have a witness who says that the builder is known for taking those illegal shortcuts.
It sounds like a thorough investigation. The DA can see my tax return if they want and if I have faked a SSN they are welcome to look more closely.
It's not the same as forgetting to include a receipt or for claiming one too many adjustments, they are only checking to make sure that the returns are using false SSNs. At that point the IRS and the DA are looking at them for other things.
I guess it comes down to the fact that is has apparently worked. The DA has found hundreds that meet the criteria for charges to be filed. I say let a jury decide in each of the cases.
Anderson, are you really a lawyer?
January 27, 2009
1:10 p.m.
Suggest removal
Scott writes:
Komrade ThingFish, Check out: http://www.chapman.edu/ That is where I earned my degree. They even have a school of lying, err law!
anderson, there are other degrees that are a LOT better than mine, e.g. medicine, physics, etc. Especially from top tier universities, e.g. Stanford, MIT, LSU, etc.. It's just that lib arts degrees are pretty much worthless.
Scott
January 27, 2009
1:13 p.m.
Suggest removal
Slimjim_800 writes:
Wouldn't the next logical step be to arrest the business owners who employed the illegals.
January 27, 2009
1:13 p.m.
Suggest removal
anderson writes:
Bob, tax fraud is not uncommon at all. Do you think the authorities should also have the right to comb through the records your local Hewlitt-Jackson or HR Block offices if they find a single fraudee who had their taxes prepared there? Just think, Mrs. Kravitz down at the Sheriff's office could be looking at your return and discovering what you make. It would all be confidential of course. Hey, how about Turbo Tax? Man, I bet they could find something there.
January 27, 2009
1:15 p.m.
Suggest removal
gs writes:
I predict that the DA will get squashed like a bug as soon as the federal government gets going. His search is way out of line.
January 27, 2009
1:16 p.m.
Suggest removal
JustSayin writes:
"In Germany, they came first for the Communists, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Communist;
And then they came for the trade unionists, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a trade unionist;
And then they came for the Jews, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Jew;
And then . . . they came for me . . . And by that time there was no one left to speak up."
sums up the work of the ACLU pretty well...speaking up.
January 27, 2009
1:21 p.m.
Suggest removal
Triumph writes:
Oops my mistake anderson you have two dupes. ThingFish & SideshowBob.
Thingfish comments are fishy and he's an intellectual snob. Probably an Ivy league wannabe from a community college.
Of course someone pointed out last week about SideshowBob is clown from a Fox Network cartoon show and so his opinions are questionable as yours are.
Better luck next time.
January 27, 2009
1:29 p.m.
Suggest removal
sheepherder writes:
The ACLU reminds me of the NRA, NAMBLA...they go wayyy too far and end up looking foolish. And hey, didnt they defend NAMBLA?
January 27, 2009
1:30 p.m.
Suggest removal
gs writes:
Didn't one of the best management science people in the world (Peter Drucker is his name I think) teach at Chapman? Sounds first rate to me.
I still say that DA is doing the wrong thing.
January 27, 2009
1:32 p.m.
Suggest removal
mrwiizrd writes:
LOL at SideshowBob.
You neo-cons amaze me, how can you claim that an organization that's trying defend us from big government and protect our civil liberties as "destroying America?" It's idiocy.
Don't tell Limbaugh or O'Reilly, but core conservatism is about protecting individual liberty at all costs, not blindly trusting some hack politicians that the democratic mob elected into power.
January 27, 2009
1:32 p.m.
Suggest removal
sheepherder writes:
I think it was a good search, backed by a judge mind you. My question is, why isn't the IRS doing the investigation? Another case of local law enforcement doing the Feds job for them?
January 27, 2009
1:37 p.m.
Suggest removal
ruckus writes:
I finally got a clean SSN now so I'm not too worried about John Cook or Ken Buck anymore. I've assimilated appropriately with the help of borderline legal legislation. Now I only report my illegal brethren if the food is bad. Flag pins anyone?
January 27, 2009
1:41 p.m.
Suggest removal
Knude writes:
The ACLU is not concerned with "liberty" or "Americans".It has learned well from Jesse Jackson and the like - who take on the big cases and look for publicity in order to extort money from meek white Americans, who will settle out of court.
January 27, 2009
1:45 p.m.
Suggest removal
mrwiizrd writes:
Sorry for the confusion Sideshow, I was LOL'ing at your catch on Scott's Alma Mater.
My ACLU rant wasn't directed at you.
January 27, 2009
1:47 p.m.
Suggest removal
anderson writes:
"The ACLU is not concerned with "liberty" or "Americans""
You know this how? Did Rush tell you?
"It has learned well from Jesse Jackson and the like - who take on the big cases and look for publicity in order to extort money from meek white Americans, who will settle out of court."
I didn't know Jesse Jackson was a lawyer, and, hey, what does he have to do with this? I see, Rush *did* tell you. You naturally associated villains and weren't too concerned about facts or evidence or reason. Evidence that there is NO crowd MORE stupid than a talk radio audience. I could take a class of 6th graders and find more reason and intelligence.
January 27, 2009
1:55 p.m.
Suggest removal
anderson writes:
sheepherder: :hey, didnt they defend NAMBLA?"
Evidence that some people are not so concerned with the reasons for defense (illegal search and seizure and this and that weird), only with who is being defended. As I said at the top, the ACLU is consistent and will defend even the ignorant.
Actually, what the article tells us, and what a lot of people have missed, is that the ACLU is not defending those who have been charged by the DA.
January 27, 2009
1:56 p.m.
Suggest removal
peterpi writes:
The sheriff had one complaint about one individual. The sheriff's office then pawed through 4,900 tax returns. Why didn't the sheriff execute a search warrant for that one return? Other news reports state the sheriff's dept. made copies of thousands of tax returns.
Oh, but the clients are Spanish-speaking, and we know anyone who speaks more than English must be an illegal terrorist furriner. If Elizabethan English was good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for us!
Suppose a DA gets word that someone filed a false income tax return with H&R Block. Is it then OK for the DA to sift through millions of tax returns ("Hey, everybody! I just saw Douglas Bruce's (Freida Poundsone's, Dave Schultheis', you get the idea) tax return!" "Cool! How much did he make last year?") to find that one alleged criminal?
Those who sacrifice liberty for security deserve and will get neither.
January 27, 2009
1:56 p.m.
Suggest removal
pauly1620 writes:
"anderson" -- Your persistent arrogance in this thread undermines whatever agruments you may put forward. Until you ditch the snobbery, you aren't going to convince a single person that your arguments are valid. Not to mention your overt Anti-Rush bigotry paints a picture of the stereotypical "bleeding heart liberal" that is more concerned with the rights of the accused than the rights of victims of crimes.
January 27, 2009
1:58 p.m.
Suggest removal
Timberline writes:
The good ol ACLU...
To defend and preserve the individual rights and liberties guaranteed to every criminal in this country by the constitution and laws of the United States.
AKA... Making the criminal the victim since 1917.
January 27, 2009
2:04 p.m.
Suggest removal
Grim_Reefer writes:
Actually Pauly1620, the ACLU is more concerned about due process, as gauranteed in the U.S. Constitution.
January 27, 2009
2:04 p.m.
Suggest removal
ruckus writes:
The ACLU will make swiss cheese out of this because I'm the victim
January 27, 2009
2:06 p.m.
Suggest removal
ruckus writes:
Yo grim pass the reefer, you had it for a minute but it seems like a month.
January 27, 2009
2:11 p.m.
Suggest removal
the_ripper writes:
anderson's long on words and short on actual information, as usual.
January 27, 2009
2:13 p.m.
Suggest removal
The_Punnisher writes:
Sigh. Check the history. An organization is known by it's roots.
The All Communist Lawyers Union was born to subvert and destroy the country known as the United States.
Period.
It looks like they are achieving this goal.
January 27, 2009
2:14 p.m.
Suggest removal
V_twinMan writes:
READ the article clowns! It states that putting BOTH a SS# and a tax I.D..# on the same return is illegal. Of the 4,900 returns 1,300 had both. I see no reason for not pursuing charges against the person who filed the return and the person who prepared it.
January 27, 2009
2:15 p.m.
Suggest removal
the_ripper writes:
'..."We didn't really believe him," Cooke said, but after arresting him for identity theft, they asked him where he got his taxes done. He said he went to Amalia's, which is run by Amalia Cerillo.
"And he said that it is well known that illegal aliens from all around the region come to her and get their taxes done," Cooke said...'
SUPRISE!!!!!!
WOW, what a shocker!!!!!
January 27, 2009
2:16 p.m.
Suggest removal
Knude writes:
Peterpi...Pawed through?
"We didn't sit there, analyzing everybody's tax return," he said. "We looked for ones that met the criteria of the search warrant — ones that had fake and stolen Social Security numbers."
January 27, 2009
2:16 p.m.
Suggest removal
MBR693 writes:
anderson writes:
"Indigo Blue, the ACLU, and people like them, have already gone to bat for you whether you know it or not. Here you are, free to express your ignorance unencumbered and uncensored in a public forum."
I think not. We have free speech because it is guaranteed by the First Amendment. The ACLU has fought for decades to protect all forms of pornography (free speech in their minds), while it fights to make even the utterance of the word "Jesus" or "God" in a public place illegal.
Maybe they fight for you, but they sure as hell don't fight for me.
January 27, 2009
2:25 p.m.
Suggest removal
temurlan writes:
Scott,
While I generally agree with you and am content to let you fight the good fight, I can't let that lib arts crack stand.
"It's just that lib arts degrees are pretty much worthless."
I have a liberal arts (Communications) degree from Depaul and it has served me very well.
As my father always told me, it doesn't matter how good you are at something, if you can't communicate you will never truly be successful.
Now, carry on…
January 27, 2009
2:26 p.m.
Suggest removal
anderson writes:
Pauly, did I mention that I think people who listen to talk radio and believe one iota of what they hear are ignorant fools? You can see their posts here. They are fairly easy to spot. Did you see my example above about someone who compared the ACLU to Jesse Jackson?
As for you're thinking I'm arrogant, might be, but you really give me no indication of what you find offensive, other than I was critical of talk radio--but I gave a reason for it.
January 27, 2009
2:28 p.m.
Suggest removal
Mikey writes:
So Pauly,
By your argument, if you were wrongly "accused" of a crime, you'd just go ahead and plead guilty so that the victim gets the closure they need. You must be upset that Tim Masters was released from prison for a murder he didn't commit, because now the victims family doesn't have closure.
Thank goodness our founding fathers had more sense than most of the posters on this thread.
SideshowBob,
I had to LOL at your comment about Chapman University and Scott as well.
January 27, 2009
2:30 p.m.
Suggest removal
The_Punnisher writes:
The All Communist Lawyers Union ONLY takes cases that move them toward their goals.
These goals are in their original charter.
The best way to destroy an enemy is from the inside.
It looks like they are doing a good job when it comes to achieving that goal.
The subversion includes dividing a country into factions that war among themselves.
January 27, 2009
2:30 p.m.
Suggest removal
Scott writes:
SideShow,
You are correct. Chapman by and large turns out lib arts majors and (gag) lawyers (oops, gotta go wash my hands again). They still have real science degrees, math, physics, chemistry and biology. However, their main "product" is overpriced lib arts degrees.
So is my degree worthless? Almost. Many job postings state, "BSEE or equivalent". It also gets me past the HR door (more lib arts majors) when they look to see if I have a Bachelors degree.
Scott
January 27, 2009
2:34 p.m.
Suggest removal
anderson writes:
MBR: "The ACLU has fought for decades to protect all forms of pornography (free speech in their minds), while it fights to make even the utterance of the word "Jesus" or "God" in a public place illegal."
They fight for free speech period. And they are consistent in that. They've defended the KKK for example. Are you telling us you can't utter Jesus or God in a public place?
January 27, 2009
2:35 p.m.
Suggest removal
ruckus writes:
Considering the current rate of layoffs most degrees are now worth less than the paper their printed on...
January 27, 2009
2:37 p.m.
Suggest removal
ruckus writes:
Meant they're instead of their for the typo nazis
January 27, 2009
2:38 p.m.
Suggest removal
OldSailor writes:
ThingFish....I just have a HS diploma but I have more common sense than most people with advanced degrees. I'm just an Old Sailor and proud of it. It's people with college degrees that got this country in the bad situation that it is in. We need more common sense and to hell with advanced degrees.
January 27, 2009
2:41 p.m.
Suggest removal
anderson writes:
peterpi: "If Elizabethan English was good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for us!"
LOL. How right thou art!
January 27, 2009
2:44 p.m.
Suggest removal
OldSailor writes:
ThingFish....COMMON SENSE would tell you NOT to loan money to people who obviously can't pay it back or who are criminals and are in the country illegally.
January 27, 2009
2:44 p.m.
Suggest removal
The_Punnisher writes:
OT:
A Liberal Arts degree is almost as good as a Doctor of Divinity degree ( in the US )
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_o...
That gives you the right to fleece the sheeple at will...
People are MAKERS, TAKERS or FAKERS..
An ENGINEER is a member of the FIRST group.
Most LIBERAL ARTS MAJORS are members of the LAST group.
Most LIARS ( LAWYERS ) fit in the MIDDLE group.
Back OT
The IRS SHOULD be the ones doing this job. The CONFISCATION powers they have are well known. It's time to turn THEM on the ILLEGAL ALIEN problem. Let the IRS LEGALLY TERRORIZE the ILLEGAL ALIEN population.
January 27, 2009
2:49 p.m.
Suggest removal
ruckus writes:
The_Punnisher, but the IRS would rather LEGALLY TERRORIZE EVERYBODY, illegals are just a subset.
January 27, 2009
2:56 p.m.
Suggest removal
Grim_Reefer writes:
perhaps all would be better served to read about the ACLU and decide for themselves
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACLU
The ACLU defended LTCOL Oliver North, by the way.
January 27, 2009
3:18 p.m.
Suggest removal
patchsl writes:
We're missing the point: what should we do about people who use other's SSNs to break the law?
January 27, 2009
3:26 p.m.
Suggest removal
sheepherder writes:
patchsl...In Colorado it's Identity Theft, a class 4 felony. The Feds should really be doing the job, but since they won't local agencies charge state crimes.
January 27, 2009
3:37 p.m.
Suggest removal
Scott writes:
temurlan: Regarding your 2:25 PM. I completely agree with your father's comment about communication. Regarding your degree in Communication from DePaul. From your comment in how it has served you well, I'll assume that you are in a "communications" profession, e.g. advertising, media, public relations, etc.. My view that lib arts degrees are worthless (O.K., mostly worthless) is because of the number of kiddies that get a lib arts degree and then never find a job related to their degree, art history, history, language (pick one), psychology, music ....
The_Punnisher: Regarding your 2:44 PM. I bow at your feet! :-)
patchsi: Regarding your 3:18 PM. Throw 'em in jail.
Scott
January 27, 2009
3:38 p.m.
Suggest removal
KW writes:
I thought identity theft was a serious problem in this country. Funny how the aclu (and some people here) feel those stealing the identity of others for personal gain need defending.
BTW - Where does the aclu stand on the 2nd amendment? Does anyone here need a hint? I'll give you one... they have never fought against any gun control measure ever.
January 27, 2009
3:42 p.m.
Suggest removal
Scott writes:
I forgot the most worthless of lib arts degrees, Philosophy. Wiley, the author of the comic strip Non-Sequitur, had a great one a number of years ago regarding a degree in philosophy. The students of Philosophy 101 are taking their final exam and are "dying" trying to figure out the answer to the one question on the exam. Mean while, the instructor is grinning like the proverbial Chesire cat. So what was the question?
"Explain how you will make a living with a degree in Philosophy."
Scott
January 27, 2009
3:51 p.m.
Suggest removal
The_Punnisher writes:
Sigh. The Wikipedia entry has been MODIFIED since I last looked at it.
It now conforms to the PC propaganda the All Communist Lawyers Union puts out.
It now downplays their relationship to the USSR and what it did for them, even to OMITTING the fact that the USSR gave them a boost.
That is what is so dangerous about PROPAGANDA. You just omit the unpleasant FACTS that don't conform to your viewpoint.
Quoting WIKI at this point undermines your case.
*****
Time to fish or cut bait. It is quickly becoming apparent that if something isn't done, the ILLEGAL INVASION will be a permanent one.
January 27, 2009
3:53 p.m.
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anderson writes:
Scott: Q: "Explain how you will make a living with a degree in Philosophy."
If you have to ask, you probably didn't get much in the way of an education. One obvious answer is: The same way you'd make a living without a degree in philosophy.
KW: "Funny how the aclu (and some people here) feel those stealing the identity of others for personal gain need defending."
Neither the ACLU nor anyone else here is defending the theft of identity. The facts of the story just flew right over you, didn't they?
January 27, 2009
4:05 p.m.
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KW writes:
Actually anderson, the true intent of the aclu seems to escape you. They were founded on a great cause, but those founders are dead and gone. The people running the show now aren't concerned about defending everyone's rights, just the rights of a certain few that help further their liberal agenda.
If you compare their case list form conception to now you'd see one heck of a change in creed.
January 27, 2009
4:11 p.m.
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anderson writes:
Why did you change the subject, KW?
Scott's rant about "worthless" degrees is a metaphor for this thread, in which so many are busy identifying all their enemies (seen and unseen) in the world and proclaiming how "worthless" they are. I hear this sort of activity (diminishing everyone around you) helps one grow a pair--or at least in one's fantasies.
January 27, 2009
4:12 p.m.
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rkoehler writes:
I think the ACLU is attacking the issue of right to privacy for individuals who submitted tax returns and that they original probable cause may have been insufficient. If we are talking about federal tax returns and the Internal Revenue Service was not investigating then the County and State might have a problem legally conducting this investigation. If the issue also involves State tax returns, which it most likely does, then the issue is more difficult for the ACLU to argue. I do believe that Amalia's Translation and Tax Service is in trouble because you cannot put both an Individual TaxPayer Identification Number and a Social Security number on a tax return and individuals cannot have both numbers. An individual may either have a Social Security number, and if they are not eligible for a Social Security number, they can apply for an ITIN using the IRS W-7 form. Amalia's Translation and Tax Service may aid individuals in completing the W-7 form for an ITIN but they cannot "assign" a number because they have no way to do that as only the IRS assigns ITINs. Amalia's assigning an ITIN to someone would be like me assigning myself a new Social Security number....it would be an imaginary number because I am not the Social Security Administration.
I am sure the Colorado ACLU outlined their argument clearly in their filing and there are issues that are not clear to the public.
January 27, 2009
4:16 p.m.
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temurlan writes:
Scott, for your 3:37 post:
Actually I fell into high end engineering. It has been my communications skills that have allowed me to rise to where I am today faster than others without silimilar skills. I agree some liberal arts degrees lack value but a major in communications complements everything...
...except talking to a liberal.
POW! Sorry, I couldn't resist.
January 27, 2009
4:21 p.m.
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patriot48 writes:
How about a little law to inform the conversation?
As the courts have said more eloquently, a threat to the civil rights of one of us, especially the weakest of us, is a threat to all of our civil rights:
"A venerable principle of constitutional law holds that all persons in the United States have rights under the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution, whether they are citizens or not. . . The Doe plaintiffs' interest in this case is in vindicating rights they claim are guaranteed them under the Constitution, and those rights exist whatever their status under the nation's immigration laws."
Plyer v. Doe, 457 U.S. 202, 210 (1982) ("[w]hatever his status under the immigration laws, an alien is surely a 'person' in any ordinary sense of that term. Aliens, even aliens whose presence in this country is unlawful, have long been recognized as 'persons' guaranteed due process of law)
Yick Wo v. Hopkins, 118 U.S. 356, 369 (1886) (“[T]he Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution is not confined to the protection of citizens. . . these provisions are universal in their application . . . without regard to any difference of race, or of nationality”).
January 27, 2009
4:22 p.m.
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patriot48 writes:
Here are the ACLU's court papers. They make a lot of sense to me, regardless of the immigration issue:
http://www.aclu-co.org/docket/200821/...
January 27, 2009
4:37 p.m.
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anderson writes:
Thanks for posting that, Patriot.
January 27, 2009
4:55 p.m.
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mrwiizrd writes:
I just thought this line warranted repeating:
"As the courts have said more eloquently, a threat to the civil rights of one of us, especially the weakest of us, is a threat to all of our civil rights:"
January 27, 2009
5:37 p.m.
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dirty writes:
I wonder if the ACLU are considering suing someone (I'm sure they could blame some Govt agency) on behalf on the identity theft victims mentioned in this story?
Of course not. These folks aren't criminals, illegal immigrants, cop killers and kiddie rapists, so they are out of luck expecting the ACLU to do anything for them.
January 27, 2009
5:49 p.m.
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dirty writes:
Lets remember that the ACLU defended NAMBLA against a wrongful death suit brought by the family of a 10 year boy, kidnapped, sexually assaulted, tortured and murdered by two child molesters who used the NAMBLA website "in order to gain psychological comfort for what he (they) was about to do."
The ACLU defended NAMBLA on stating that NAMBLA was being sued "simply for creating an ''environment'' that encourages sexual abuse." Apparently this is a "right" according to the ACLU.
Having a niece (aged 5) who was sexually assaulted by an individual with affliations to this "group", I have nothing but contempt for the ACLU. It is interesting to note that I can find no record of the ALCU suing anyone on behalf of a truly innocent victim (ie like my niece or those folks who have had their SSN's jacked), yet google ACLu and lawsuit, and you will find them defending the scum of humanity.
January 27, 2009
9:35 p.m.
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GetReal writes:
anderson-
You were the one saying the ACLU fights for everyone.
How about addressing KW's point that the ACLU more often than not takes cases embracing liberal causes, and stays clear of conservative ones, specifically 2nd Amendment violations?
Anybody wanting to know the truth about the ACLU, and it's hidden agenda-
http://www.stoptheaclu.com/archives/2...
From their Communist founder Roger Baldwin,
"My chief aversion is the system of greed, private profit, privilege and violence which makes up the control of the world today, and which has brought it to the tragic crisis of unprecedented hunger and unemployment…Therefore, I am for Socialism, disarmament and ultimately, for the abolishing of the State itself…I seek the social ownership of property, the abolition of the propertied class and sole control of those who produce wealth. Communism is the goal".
January 28, 2009
7 a.m.
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denverrose writes:
The ACLU was and is a precursor to the current administration's hope of going socialist. We need to stop the ACLU and this administration's attempts through serious and open discussions not like the ones on this blog who pretend that the ACLU will represent a conservative view. For reasons to appear legit they will take the occasional token case but for all intents and purposes they are a front for socialism and its ills that are coming.
January 28, 2009
7:28 a.m.
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slocatch writes:
I applaud the Weld County Sheriff and Distric Attorney for working smart and wish the rest would follow. Our Country needs such efforts, they are not my brother and are very heavy.
January 28, 2009
8:51 a.m.
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Scott writes:
temurlan,
LOL! So are you now an engineer or do you support engineering? Just curious.
BTW, about ten years ago one of the department secretaries at Bell Labs circulated the following.
"Communicating with engineers is only slightly more difficult than communicating with the dead."
Us injunears luvd it!
Scott
January 28, 2009
10:36 a.m.
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temurlan writes:
Scott,
Yes I am an actual engineer. Going on 16 years now.
January 28, 2009
11:24 a.m.
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peterpi writes:
Some seem to have the attitude of "Well, as long as they're pawing through the taxes of people with funny-sounding names who might be illegal aliens, who cares?"
***
** What do you mean police looked at my tax records, I thought they did that only to illegal aliens?
** Sorry, sonny, we won that case in Colorado. You're are @#$! out of luck!
January 28, 2009
11:48 a.m.
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Timberline writes:
peterpi,
I really don't care if they were "pawing through the taxes of people with funny-sounding names who might be illegal aliens".
Point is they STOLE over $1.5 million. If their names were Bob Smith, Shaniqua Jackson, or Jesus, they are still criminals and should be investigated and punished to the full extent of the law.
And by the way, if the guy's name was Bob Smith, do you think the ACLU would even bother investigating his arrest? Didn't think so.
January 28, 2009
3:16 p.m.
Suggest removal
wow writes:
"If the sheriff and the district attorney can comb through thousands of records of a tax preparer on the theory that some of the clients are doing something wrong,..."
---------------------
Ok, maybe the ACLU has a very minor point.
But what if the DA is looking at prosecuting the Tax Preparer herself, because, ----
"Amalia's told the Department of Revenue that when a client gives a Social Security number that may be stolen or not real, Amalia's assigns a tax ID number....
But that is on its face illegal — putting both a Social Security number and a tax ID number on the same return..." ? --
The tax lady is herself a criminal scumbag, harboring criminal scumbags, and conspiring to committ identity thieft with afore mentioned criminal scumbags.
They could prosecute her, and have warrants to further investigate the 1,300 other creeps, and what would the mighty ACLU have to say about that?
What's done is done, but the DA is a lawer too, and I have no doubt he will wiggle out of this with ease, and will enjoy loads of support from his community.
Greely is a mecca for identity thieft, and if I were one of those "thousands of innocent" taxpayers that the DA checked my SS# against, I don't think I'd be complaining about my privacy being "violated", especially if it was in the process of being violated by an identity thief.
I'd be thanking him. But that's me, and evidently the ACLU has no sense of perspective.
February 11, 2009
5:50 p.m.
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2burmdad writes:
I wrote this to the ACLU:
Hello --
Perhaps the issue is that the local law officials persued this rather than the IRS.
It is well known and accepted that if the IRS perceives an indication or pattern of disobeyance of rules and regulations by a paid preparer, that the IRS can and will, and probably have, by reference to the preparer ID, investigated all of the returns filed by a paid preparer.
In this case, the ACLU, of which I am a staunch supporter, has gone up the wrong alley, and probably damaged "our" relationship with the community as a whole.
There is about no way that the average citizen can condone withspread manipulation of the rules by a paid preparer.
Of course, Cerrillo may win the battle, so to speak, and lose the war, since I assume and hope that the local IRS office has hopped right on this.
Fine, win the action to have the records returned by the Weld Co folks, but the IRS will be right behind. Nothing to prohibit, I guess, their referral of any wrongdoing to the local DA in Weld, but I believe that the IRS has sufficient forces of their own, i.e. nationwide, rather than local. But, I believe that the proper venue for prosecution is in Federal courts, not a state county court (as one of the local judges appears to have stated).
The ACLU (and my contribution usage) would be better served by working with the IRS for a transfer of any materials.