Colorado colleges must slash $30 million
Presidents want say on setting tuition
By Berny Morson, Rocky Mountain News (Contact)
Published January 16, 2009 at 9:12 p.m.
College students could see deep changes in the way tuition is formulated as a result of the looming budget cuts announced Friday, some key lawmakers believe.
A new strategy would mean higher tuition for some students to offset the budget cuts. But some of the additional money would go to financial aid to keep college affordable for disadvantaged students.
Trying to keep tuition down while repeatedly chopping state aid to the schools can only erode the quality of education, Rep. Jack Pommer, D- Boulder, vice chairman of the Joint Budget Committee, said Friday.
"We're essentially consuming these universities," Pommer said of the state's four research institutions.
He added: "We can probably get another 20 years out of them before they're essentially worthless."
Higher education must cut $30 million from the budget for the current school year, with more proposed cuts to be released next Friday.
Higher education was slashed during the last recession, at the beginning of this decade. Funding still has not climbed back to 2002 levels when amounts are adjusted for inflation, according to the governor's budget office.
For years, Colorado's college presidents have been seeking more management flexibility, including more leeway in setting tuition, which is capped annually in the state spending bill. Lawmakers, including budget committee members such as Pommer, have been saying for several weeks that they're open to more flexibility for the colleges.
University of Colorado President Bruce Benson said Friday, "Give us some freedom. We will be responsible. We will be accountable, and we will damn sure keep it affordable for our citizens."
CU will absorb nearly $8 million of the $30 million cut to higher education, under the proposal that went from the governor's office to the budget committee Friday.
Benson said CU started looking at savings last March, when businesses began reporting financial problems. Some CU jobs have gone unfilled since last summer.
Gov. Bill Ritter said he's not ready to endorse a flexibility plan until he sees details.
Even the $30 million cut protects most of the gains that have been made in higher education funding over the last two years, Ritter said.
College tuition increased 9 percent this year at the state's four research schools - CU, Colorado State University, University of Northern Colorado and the Colorado School of Mines. Other four-year schools and community colleges saw lesser increases.
Budget committee members, who draft the annual state spending bill, had been looking at similar increases for next year.
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January 16, 2009
9:38 p.m.
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windbourne writes:
If you dems ARE going to cut their budget, then give them freedom to figure things out.
January 16, 2009
10:15 p.m.
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NeilT writes:
Jimminy,
Cosmetologist versus Medical Doctor
Really?
January 16, 2009
10:51 p.m.
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farsidefan writes:
Windbourne,
Why should the Dems do that when the Repubs never did it when they slashed Higher Ed budgets the last 15 years ?
January 16, 2009
11:05 p.m.
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SL10 writes:
Voting NO to the amendments hurt Colorado.
Hey, the people of Colorado had a chance to vote for a change to improve school funding.
But, now this is the price of stupidity at the polls.
Enjoy higher price schools all.
January 16, 2009
11:36 p.m.
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freefall writes:
I moved here for the great affordable schools and would love to stay here. But the rate hikes are above and beyond other states so I am looking at transferring. Hell, there's even a couple of schools I could go to that out of state (tuition) would be lower than Colorado's in- state and get the same respect.
January 17, 2009
12:03 a.m.
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Sundog writes:
Yep, just keep jacking up the tuition to close the shortfall. Surely $30k isn't too much for one semester. After graduation they can quickly jump to assistant manager at Sonic...if anyone can still afford a hamburger by then.
January 17, 2009
12:22 a.m.
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Mile_Hi_Dave writes:
Hmmmmmmmmmm...didn't all the casino towns just vote to raise the limts and stay open longer? Doesn't that mean more revenue for those towns? Even if it increases the taxes only by 50%, I am sure, with a 2000% increase in the limits, I am being conservative using 50% as the value for the increase in tax revenue generated up there. Back to my point...why not use this money to increase, not decrease educational spending? Obviously, these towns of less than 200 people can't use all that revenue, at least not for the purposes they are supposed to....Heck, in a town of 110 people, the board is running out of ways to spend those tax dollars, so they are fixing up their own homes, LOL, and illegally moving money for services that are not provided for by their agreement for the use of these tax $$. I see no reason to be buying doggie doors when a student can't go to school because of a lack of funds! Just my 2 cents...
January 17, 2009
3:50 a.m.
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44roger writes:
Ritter thinks he knows it all when cutting budgets, he better get off his high horse and listen to other people, he's shown he's not the sharpest tack in the box already.
January 17, 2009
7:07 a.m.
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classiccoupe writes:
Where are our values? Certainly not in education! Like everything else, one has to wonder where all the money involved is really going. Could there be greed and special interests involved? No wonder America is losing its academic standing in the world. As in the past, the nations with the most knowledge and wisdom will ultimately come out on top. It appears as though this nation is now on a losing path.
January 17, 2009
7:07 a.m.
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coachk writes:
Colleges must do something to lower tuition. We complain about how high gas prices rose, about big oil and such. Colleges prices have risen way beyond anything else and the big ones sit on multi billion dollar endowments. Get rid of tenure, Hire good professors that teach instead of indoctrinate and give good value for the students. why do you think the smaller state schools have been growing more rapidly than others. On the other hand Colorado must set it priorities. Funding for schools in abysmal in this state. we rank in over 40 out of the 50 states in the amount of money we spend on educating our students. Who ever said that we missed our chance was right with Amd 59 to remove the burden of TABOR and fix what really needs fixing. Get rid of the Monopoly of the Teachers unions and we can finally get to work
January 17, 2009
7:27 a.m.
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Ditto writes:
Solution, ask for an Obama bail out, problem solved.
January 17, 2009
7:34 a.m.
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rushrulesbaby writes:
Hey Johnny and Janie, ya wanna go to college? Pay the freight sweeties! There ain't no such thing as a free lunch baby!
January 17, 2009
7:52 a.m.
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VietNamVet writes:
And, let's be sure that Ward Churchill gets his severance pay...
January 17, 2009
7:56 a.m.
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mytwosense writes:
This is one reason why I voted against the amendment that, in theory, was supposed to raise gambling funds so that part of them could be diverted to education. I knew it was just going to remain a theory!
January 17, 2009
7:58 a.m.
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Michael writes:
Re-examine tenure and what professors are required to do. Make them TEACH instead of passing that off to assistants and others while they write books and participate in their pet political activist causes. Don't allow for professors who have been indicted to sit around and collect full salaries like a laid off UAW union member. Academia functions like no other world that exists with regard to job duties and requirements. The pay is high. The time off is long. The rules are lax. The duties are easy. And tenure, once you have tenure you cannot be fired. What other job has that? What other job throws away merit after a certain time served? Oh...union jobs I guess are similar. The system needs to be reworked and you will not get any cooperation from those whose positions allow for such a cushy job and lifestyle.
January 17, 2009
8:26 a.m.
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IRUNMAN writes:
Solution-
Pull out of Iraq one day earlier than proposed, use extra 720 million to cover shortfall.
Done.
January 17, 2009
8:57 a.m.
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farmboy writes:
Remember Referendum C? Money from that was supposed to fund colleges and universities.
What happened to it?
January 17, 2009
8:58 a.m.
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Nosybear writes:
And, again, America loses ground to its competitors. Waving the flag and shouting "We're Number One" isn't going to help train engineers, scientists, doctors who, in case you haven't read anything other than Matt Drudge's talking points, are going home because the economy is better in their home countries. This is not a good situation and a large part of it is due to the fact that the United States has no national commitment to education. It's a line item in the budget to be cut first for political points. Meanwhile, as another group of us can't afford a college education, the Europeans get theirs paid for by the State, the Indians invest in their future, the Chinese beat us at every technical subject. But hey, they don't build NASCAR racers yet so we're still number one.
January 17, 2009
9:08 a.m.
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hikingartist writes:
I'm with irunman. Second option would be to cut the football programs. It's not like Colorado college football is worth the expense.
January 17, 2009
9:30 a.m.
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Michael writes:
IRUNMAN - The Iraq War costs come in at $410M a day. Since that is federal budget money it would have to be split 50 ways if given to the states for education. That is $8.2M per state, if divided equally. http://theiraqinsider.blogspot.com/20...
hiking - Football programs generate far more cash then they cost. Alumni donations from those that support the football program are pretty large. Even for a program like CU that is not a perpetual winner. There is also TV revenue and I am not sure if the Big 12 shares revenue but I am sure it is a budget winner and not a loser. And people LIKE it and want it too, though you may not.
January 17, 2009
9:44 a.m.
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farmboy writes:
Nosybear,
Nonsense. The reason the dollar has gained strength against other currencies the last few months is because as weak as our economy is, it's worse every where else.
As for the lack of commitment to education. If it was K-12, I'd agree, but this is about colleges and universities. Foreign students would not be flocking here to get a higher education, if their State paid higher education was better where they come from.
January 17, 2009
9:49 a.m.
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mmannino writes:
Most of the solutions posed here are bandaids that do not address the long term issues. We have a double dilemna now. We have rising tuitions in a period in which savings have been depleted by falling markets. We also have poor job prospects in many areas that will cause many to question the value of higher education.
In the short run, universities must lower tuition somewhat (5 to 10%). Salary reductions, layoffs, and other efficiency changes can allow universities to lower tuition or at least avoid tuition increases in the short run.
Because of the labor intensive nature of higher education, these short run solutions have limits. The public needs to decide if there are ways to deliver higher education that will substantially reduce the labor component and unbundle the higher education product.
I believe it is possible commoditize a good deal of the higher education production. The textbooks in most disciplines are standardized. I believe that standard courses can be developed with standardized assessment methods. To add interaction in the product, I believe that learning communities can be developed. Those who want more assistance, can pay for varying levels of tutoring and other services. Even here, a national or regional network of tutoring services can be developed with lower priced labor than full university professors. Accredidation should be replaced or augmented with standardized assessment.
University education now is a highly bundled product. The basic service of course attendance is augmented with extensive advising, job placement, housing, dining, health care, athletics, cultural activities, computer labs, and other services. A new model of higher education would unbundle most services that are now mandated.
This new model can provide many more choices. The traditional higher education approach can still be available at a high price. The standardized, unbundled model can be available with a range of service options to accomodate different budgets and preferences.
It would take a strong higher education champion with a relentless committment to quality and efficiency to develop a new model of higher education. The massive subsidies to higher education have prevented a new model of higher education from developing. We have the computing and communication infrastructure to develop a new model. The politicians, and educational beauracracy are opposed. The public is not aware that other choices are possible.
January 17, 2009
10:35 a.m.
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footnote writes:
In response to Michael, the pay is not high and the time off is not long.
I realize, as a professor at one of the state's slowly-defunded universities, that the general public assumes professors basically spend only as much time working as students spend in the classroom, but this is not the case. I, and most of my colleagues, typically work 50-60 hours a week, which includes 10 hours in class, 10 hours grading student papers and responding to student e-mail, 10 hours prepping for classes, 10 or more hours researching (which leads both to our written articles or books and to our long-term curriculum development), 10 hours writing, and usually another 10 hours in service-related work. Classes ended the third week of December and resume on Monday, but during that 4-week period, I've had only 2 days off; the rest of the time I've been working in the service of the university.
And my pay is significantly lower than that I might receive at another university in another state.
I, like many of my colleagues, love Colorado, its students, and its people, so we don't complain. We work.
What we'd like is a chance to continue doing this work and the resources to do it well, which we're happy to earn if the legislature and the people give us the freedom to do so.
January 17, 2009
11:11 a.m.
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SheikYurBooty writes:
Education is so elitist anyway - the less of it there is, the better....
January 17, 2009
12:37 p.m.
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Michael writes:
footnote - Thanks for the clarification and for your hard work. If I can ask a follow up question? The school year when I was at CU was 2 semesters - fall and spring. Started in September and pretty much ended in late May. 9 months. Do you teach in the summer? What do you do for 3 months when most of the student body is gone? Do you take that time off along with the students like public school teachers do? Thanks.
January 17, 2009
1:21 p.m.
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Mike_In_Hartsel writes:
SheikYurBooty - you're living proof of that.
January 17, 2009
1:36 p.m.
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B300 writes:
Like the most of you on this blog, I think this will just make it harder to go to school and get by. Just when we need our schools and colleges the most in our changeing economy the economy will trash this to. Some of you talk about the democrats and republicians. But niether is better than the other, they are the ones who trashed it! Both parties are out for power and control. But as a country ase a people,we need to be educated to respond to the changeing world, and environment.
January 17, 2009
1:44 p.m.
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SheikYurBooty writes:
M_I_H - brilliant repartee. Good luck in seventh grade..
January 17, 2009
4 p.m.
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Salchak_Toka writes:
Pommer must be on crack if he thinks we "can probably get another 20 years out of them before they're essentially worthless." They're already close to worthless -- thanks to massive budget cuts and ransacked infrastructure they're rapidly becoming noncompetitive in the education market. Once the colleges have to start charging out-of-state tuition rates to in-staters, few prospective students will bother sticking around.
Boulder, CSU, Mines -- they might last for a while. The other colleges are already walking corpses, and a budgetary feather could knock them over.
January 17, 2009
5:10 p.m.
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footnote writes:
Michael, to answer your questions...
Do I teach in the summer? Some summers, yes. But even if I'm not teaching a course I'm leading a number of independent studies, which are unpaid tutorials. In my unit, the summer is more and more a time for raising money, though most of us spend the summer time --- which is really just June and July --- researching and writing for publication and for course design. I say the summer is really just June and July because, though students leave campus in mid-May, we have to complete grades, evaluations, assessment reports, which takes us into early June, and we're back on campus for pre-semester advising and reporting by the first of August, giving us just two months of somewhat flexible time. This is not really time off.
I don't know a professor who takes the two months and does no work. It's a popular conception, but it's not accurate, and I doubt this is the case for high-school teachers or primary school teachers either: teaching is much more time-consuming than people realize.
When we're not "in the class," we are, by and large, preparing for class, and research time and work figures into this. A researching professor is always offering the most up-to-date course, the most up-to-date information.
I'd say in the last three years, I can remember maybe three weeks of "vacation" --- times when I did nothing --- and a few long weekends.
So, no, I don't take that time off that students take off, and my case is not an exceptional one: if I show up to the office on July 1st or December 26th, I see most of my colleagues.
January 17, 2009
6:52 p.m.
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HopiMedicineMan writes:
What is the point of an education? Here we are in the biggest recession since the Great D, and I submit higher education has not saved us. What would save us are drilling roughneck...EMPLOYED.
January 17, 2009
9:31 p.m.
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Salchak_Toka writes:
Desperate times call for desperate measures, and if Colorado won't support higher education (and yes, when all is said and onde, it WILL NOT support higher education), then it could at least craft an orderly dissolution of several state institutions in order to strengthen the rest.
One four-year campus on the Western Slopes is plenty; one campus south of Denver; one campus in Denver; CU-Boulder, CSU, and Mines. That's it; even that's probably too many.
Mesa State and Western State? Get rid of one, and merge its resources (and as much of its personnel as feasible) into the other. The result is one possibly viable campus instead of two on life support. Get rid of UNC; move its portable assets and best personnel to CSU. You get the idea. Some consolidation of the community colleges might be worthwhile too, but since they're funded differently, this probably can't be accomplished by some kind of statewide plan.
Some folks will be hurt, but if we just wait for all the universities to wither and collapse, everyone will be hurt.
Only problem with this scenario is that it requires some courage on the part of our "leaders." These are the last people to demonstrate courage. Too many legislators sitting in districts with colleges in them, and nobody wants to be the guy who sacrificed his college for the greater good. As a result, most of the colleges will fail.
January 17, 2009
11:46 p.m.
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NeilT writes:
Hopi,
Big Oil/Gas would be the first to disagree with your ridiculous statement. It takes brains to find wells and make them productive, more so today than ever before, thus Big Oil's/Gas love for Mines students.
You've got to be trollin' by making such an idiotic statement. This could be a new low for you, if not. Any lower and you would be swimming in crude.
January 18, 2009
12:21 a.m.
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Romanesco writes:
"It takes brains to find wells and make them productive"
Yes, but having a college degree does not automatically make one smarter or more qualified.
January 18, 2009
1:53 a.m.
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NeilT writes:
Help me out, guys. I know Hopi would be playing the part of Moe, but I'm not sure about you two. I bet Jimminy makes a great Curly.
"Roughnecks" wouldn't know where to drill, how to drill or have anything to drill with, without an alphabet soup of degreed professionals behind them.
Are you guys really this dense? Claiming a degree doesn't make one more qualified?
Why don't you stooges apply to Exxon. They're always hiring geologists and petroleum engineers. See how far you get without a degree.
Gone are the days of Beverly Hillbilly-style crude bubbling to the surface. Without the most talented degreed engineers hunting for pockets, we would be in a world of hurt.
You two should return your divining rods to Hopi and get a refund. Dowsing only works (supposedly) for hunting water.
January 18, 2009
7:26 a.m.
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SanctuaryCity writes:
Start by cutting the illegals from the welfare rolls
January 18, 2009
9:28 a.m.
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mmannino writes:
Salchak_Toka,
You are wildly exagerating the status of higher education in Colorado. There are funding challenges now. I think that a different vision should be targeted but I realize that most will not agree. Most prefer a cottage industry with extremely high costs.
I challenge you to visit the Auraria campus. The condition of the campus is excellent. The campus workforce has grown sharply in the last 10 years. The legislature has bestowed generous salary increases in the last 10 years. The campus has had numerous physical plant renovations and construction in the last 10 years. Your assertion that the Auraria campus is a wreck is absurd.
January 18, 2009
1:21 p.m.
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Salchak_Toka writes:
mmanino: I didn't say Auraria was a wreck -- I didn't say anything about Auraria at all. In fact, if you'd read my comment -- you obviously didn't -- I did suggest saving a campus in Denver. Saving Auraria, which is third only to CUB and CSU in receiving state generosity over the past several years, is the obvious choice.
Also, part of Auraria's success is having a community college as part of the complex. Community colleges are funded in part by district property taxes, and have therefore been much better off financially over the past several years than colleges and universities have been. That, and starving the universities to feed the community colleges was part of the Bill Owens educational agenda.
January 18, 2009
8:51 p.m.
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HopiMedicineMan writes:
Neil T
I agree with you. Trouble is, you have a problem recognizing tongue-in-cheek. Now this is as humorless as your responses to me. If the US doesn't produce it's own energy, proven forms, immediately, it's all over for this country: third world, extreme poverty and pestilence, bare survival for most of the population. America will look like the Sudan. That's what we have to look forward to. No education is required for that future. GDP is a leveraged meaningless figure. Our wealth is now in the hands of China and Saudi Arabia. The only wealth we have left in the ground. Our economy has come full circle and we refuse to recognize it.
January 19, 2009
1:31 a.m.
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NeilT writes:
Hopi,
Your post sounds a lot like the many I've posted on these forums, except our solutions differ.
You don't understand supply and demand. Americans use a lot more energy than our land can supply.
We do not have the reserves to become independent. If we stay the current course, we'll forever be married to OPEC. Any increase in production on our end will be offset by OPEC.
China and Saudi Arabia are pursuing alternatives, utilizing American technologies, of course. Given our ability to innovate, I'd say a lot of wealth can be found in these markets.
You're nothing more than an obstacle, Hopi. You want to bet our future on century-old solutions, yet the rest of the world, especially China and SA, is looking to the future. These countries are using technologies that were developed by educated Americans.
It's uneducated Americans that are preventing us from using them.