With eye to the future, president signs stimulus bill into law
U.S. 'converting crisis into opportunity,' he says
By Kevin Vaughan, Rocky Mountain News (Contact)
Published February 17, 2009 at 1:31 p.m.
Video: President Barack Obama signed a historic $787 billion economic stimulus bill at the Denver Museum of Nature & Science. Watch »
Calling all citizen journalists! When President Obama comes to Denver today, we don't want to miss a thing. Join the coverage by sending your stories and anecdotes from the experience to Metro@RockyMountainNews.com, and send your photos and videos to Thirty05bed@Photos.Flickr.com.
- SLIDE SHOW: Obama arrives to sign stimulus bill
- VIDEO: Cary Hayes, talks about Colorado's solar industry
- VIDEO: Obama greeted at Museum of Nature & Science
- ROCKY BLOG: Obama visits Denver to sign stimulus bill
- VIDEO: Obama signs American Recovery and Reinvestment Act
- STORY: Obama given shoe to the city in Phoenix
President Barack Obama on Tuesday came back to the city that launched him to the White House, signing the $787 billion stimulus bill and preparing the country for more expensive measures to come.
The afternoon ceremony in a sun-streaked atrium at the Denver Museum of Nature & Science underscored Colorado's burgeoning presence on the national political stage. And, it gave Obama the chance to tout the state's and his own efforts to rebuild the economy, in part by promoting solar and wind power and other forms of renewable energy.
"What makes this recovery plan so important is not just that it will create or save 31/2 million jobs over the next two years, including 60,000-plus here in Colorado," he said. "It's that we are putting Americans to work doing the work that America needs done in critical areas that have been neglected for too long - work that will bring real and lasting change for generations to come."
Obama finished his 14-minute speech at 1:20, and members of the audience literally jumped from their seats, applauding.
Sitting at a desk borrowed from the Governor's Mansion and using 10 pens, Obama signed the mammoth economic package. "There you go," the president said to raucous applause from roughly 250 people at the invitation-only ceremony.
Rochelle Asmussen and her daughters, 8-year-old Grace and 12-year-old Sierra, stood and watched as Obama put pen to paper. "I thought it was very amazing," said Sierra. "It's history."
Her mother and father are local Realtors. Rochelle Asmussen said the housing market has forced them to rethink their business strategy. "It's a very different market now," she said. "But I'm very excited today. I feel hopeful."
The measure passed with no Republican support in the U.S. House and the backing of only three GOP senators. And more battles loom. Obama plans to propose legislation aimed at reforming the banking system and the housing market and other measures that may ultimately add up to $2.5 trillion.
But Tuesday was about the first step, a stimulus bill aimed at stemming the economic damage that has resulted in millions of lost jobs, widespread foreclosures and multibillion-dollar bailouts.
Obama landed at Buckley Air Force Base late Tuesday morning, then was driven to the museum with Vice President Joe Biden. There, the pair inspected solar panels installed on the museum's roof last summer.
Their tour guide was Blake Jones, head of Namaste Solar, the company that built and installed the panels. But Jones had a bigger role in the day's events: He introduced the president.
Jones recounted his company's history - its quick growth from three employees to 50, and then dramatic cuts that followed last fall's economic collapse. Without the stimulus bill, he said, he would have been forced to lay off workers. With it, he expects to increase his work force by 20 percent this year and 40 percent in 2010.
And then it was Obama's turn at the microphone.
After an array of political shout-outs, the president went to work describing key points of the stimulus bill.
"It is great to be in Denver," Obama said. "I was here last summer - we had a great time - to accept the nomination of my party and to make a promise to people of all parties, that I would do all I could to give every American the chance to make of their lives what they will, to see their children climb higher than they did.
"I am back today to say that we have begun the difficult work of keeping that promise."
Obama hailed the bill as "paving the way to long-term growth and prosperity." He ticked off a list of provisions in it. Then, he returned to the kind of speech-making for which he is known, invoking the country's lofty ideas in his final pitch of the day.
"Our American story is not - and never has been - about things coming easy," he said. "It's about rising to the moment when the moment is hard, converting crisis into opportunity, and seeing to it that we emerge from whatever trials we face stronger than we were before.
"It's about rejecting the notion that our fate is somehow written for us, and instead laying claim to a destiny of our own making. That is what earlier generations of Americans have done, that's what we hope for our children, that's what we are doing today."
What's in it
The legislation is the most sweeping economic overhaul plan put forth in decades.
* It pumps money into infrastructure projects, health care, mass transit, high-speed rail, national parks, renewable energy development and conservation.
* There's a $400 tax break for most individual workers and $800 for couples, including those who do not earn enough to pay income taxes.
* It dishes out tens of billions of dollars to states so they can head off deep cuts and layoffs.
* It provides financial incentives for people to start buying again, from first homes to new cars.
* It provides help to poor people and laid-off workers, with increased unemployment benefits and food stamps, and subsides for health insurance.
Presidential Extra!
It sounds more congressional that way
Univision interviewed Congressman Jared Polis of Boulder - in Spanish. Polis replied in fluent Spanish, but he said "tax cuts" in English.
The biggest winner?
303 pounds: What attorney and Denver Democratic Party powerhouse Willie Shepherd used to weigh.
200.8 pounds: What Shepherd weighed Tuesday.
Jurassic pork
From an alert reader: "I just find it ironic that Obama signs a $787 BILLION stimulus bill at the Denver Museum of Nature & Science. The museum's newest exhibit opened last Friday - Nature's Disasters."
DeGette with it, sir
They met backstage at the Democratic National Convention in Boston in 2004 while practicing their speeches. Then-Illinois Sen. Barack Obama greeted U.S. Rep. Diana DeGette, mispronouncing the Denver Democrat's name as De-Jet instead of De-Get.
Then, on Tuesday, almost the instant the president introduced the dean of Colorado's congressional delegation as De-Jet, the White House was e-mailing her staff, apologizing.
Moving day
The desk came from the Governor's Mansion, the chair from the museum president's den.
Finding furniture for President Barack Obama to use to sign the stimulus bill fell to staff at the Denver Museum of Nature & Science.
Museum President and CEO George Sparks said he will donate the chair Obama sat on to the museum archive.
The desk will go back to the bedroom of Gov. Bill Ritter's oldest son, August, at the mansion, Sparks said.
But the two pieces may be reunited soon.
Sparks said his staff has talked to the governor's office about bringing the desk, which technically belongs to the taxpayers, back to the museum to be put on display.
"That way, the public can see it," Sparks said.
'By God, it's a grizzly!'
The president left Denver with more than he came here with.
Obama took home a replica of the large grizzly bear statue that stands outside the museum.
"This is the iconic piece of the museum," Sparks said.
Before Obama arrived, a Secret Service agent warned museum officials not to be offended if the president seemed less than enthused with the gift; most tokens of appreciation end up in a warehouse, the agent said.
But when Obama saw the statue - inscribed with his name and a note about the occasion - he seemed downright impressed.
"He said, 'By God, it's a grizzly!' " Sparks said.
The president said he'd put the statue in his office, then he handed it to a staff member for safe keeping.
The replicas are tough to come by. They aren't available for purchase, and only four of them have ever been given as gifts.
"Obviously, when it's the president, he gets one," Sparks said.
What took you so long?
Colorado's Senate President Peter Groff is more than ready to spend.
"Last week," he answered, when asked when he'd like to see the stimulus money coursing through Colorado's economy.
Groff believes Colorado will start seeing new jobs by June, with spending accelerating next fiscal year, which begins July 1. The money for transportation will be "incredibly helpful," Groff said.
The funds also will help rebuild outdated rural schools, save human services program slated for the chopping block and - in case you hadn't heard - spur investments in renewable energy.
"I'm waiting for the members of Congress to take their seats so I can ask, 'Did you bring the check with you?' " Groff said.
Thanks but no thanks
All 13 Denver City Council members were invited to Obama's stimulus signing. At least two stayed home.
"Deficit spending, no matter how it's called, just is not my thing, and I don't go to celebrate it, whether it's Republicans doing it or Democrats doing it," said Councilwoman Jeanne Faatz, the only Republican on the council.
However, Faatz did appreciate being invited by Mayor John Hickenlooper's administration.
Councilman Charlie Brown didn't go either.
"I stay away from partisan events," said Brown, who switched his party affiliation from Democrat to unaffiliated last year.
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February 17, 2009
2:57 p.m.
Suggest removal
danirobi writes:
thank you for selling out my future, my future kids future and my future grandkids future. This bill is full of pork and I am one of the few people taking time to read it. This bill is rip off of the American people.
Why did you have to fly over 2,000 miles to sign a bill Obama? Talk about wasting energy!!!!! Oh and what happened to that 5 day comment period your promised us during the campaign? What happened to "we need to pass this bill quickly so I can sign it" but then you wait 4 days to do so? Your Presidency is already a fraud.
February 17, 2009
3:02 p.m.
Suggest removal
Beergut writes:
danirobi : From your posts unless you adopted the future of your kids and grandkids are already troubled, don't blame Obama for your genes dude
February 17, 2009
3:02 p.m.
Suggest removal
wyhammertime writes:
Yawn well look on the god side of things the ILLEGAL'S will still have Jobs and they will be comming back soon so they can take down this country once again !! Watch the dow
February 17, 2009
3:04 p.m.
Suggest removal
laughingman writes:
awwww....poor you, huh? awwww....as if we weren't getting ripped off before? Oh you poor, poor thing! Well, America-- love it or leave it, right? RIGHT?? So where will you go now?
February 17, 2009
3:10 p.m.
Suggest removal
HankReardon writes:
Gee danirobi,
What could you possibly say that you haven't been saying since last week? You are a classic example of Einstein's definition of 'insane'. Maybe you and PrinceMickey could go out and stimulate each other sometime. The Rattle has Begun...
February 17, 2009
3:10 p.m.
Suggest removal
IRUNMAN writes:
HAHA!!!! Funny post Beergut!!
February 17, 2009
3:10 p.m.
Suggest removal
Fisherman writes:
...and the DOW fell 300 points.
February 17, 2009
3:12 p.m.
Suggest removal
windskull writes:
wyhammertime writes:
Yawn well look on the god side of things the ILLEGAL'S will still have Jobs and they will be comming back soon so they can take down this country once again !! Watch the dow
Riiiigggghhhht! On the God,(presuming you are referring to neocon) side certainly illegals will still have jobs, mowing country club lawns and being maids because the corporate slime you blindly support and bank your very existence on(the dow) won`t pay a living wage for domestic servants
February 17, 2009
3:12 p.m.
Suggest removal
SanctuaryCity writes:
This is the biggest bunch of BS in American history. Denver will be known as the city of the depression signing. There will be NO jobs. This spending can never be paid back. Taxes will be raised until the people have no more to give. Its OVER people & thank the democrats you voted for. CRASH BABY CRASH
February 17, 2009
3:13 p.m.
Suggest removal
T1anda writes:
Republicans aren't any better!!...Crappola like this signing today explains why Democrats end with the word RATS!
Our political system is outdated,outmoded,outlandish and belongs in the out house!!
February 17, 2009
3:14 p.m.
Suggest removal
Scott writes:
Well now the Pelosi/Reid/messiah "team" has just forfeited the future of all of our grandchildren. Good job dems politicians! You are nothing but a bunch of smoke-n-mirror shysters.
Scott
February 17, 2009
3:16 p.m.
Suggest removal
GladysKravitz writes:
Hey Danirobi...I guess the education funding in this bill for your kids is a waste of money...maybe you oughta yank 'em outta school so that other children may benefit. No need to waste educating your kids.
February 17, 2009
3:18 p.m.
Suggest removal
marka82331 writes:
What an embarassment for the city and the country. It's a sad day for both. Many thanks to our thief-in-chief, and the king and queen of pork (Reid/Pelosi).
February 17, 2009
3:19 p.m.
Suggest removal
JMH writes:
danirobi,
Where was your outrage as Bush and the GOP were getting us into this mess in the first place? You want to cry about mortgaging your children's future... maybe you should have said something when Bush spent & borrowed over 5 TIMES as much and we got nothing in return but a broken economy!
Funny how the NeoCon's have no problem spending 1 trillion dollars in Iraq, but sqweel like stuck pigs when we try to invest in America!
Sorry, but anyone that supported the GOP this last decade has lost ALL credibility about what is best for America!
I wouldn't take driving lessons from anyone that has crashed every car they ever drove, why should I take economic advice from the GOP who has crashed the American economy EVERYTIME they were handed the keys?
February 17, 2009
3:19 p.m.
Suggest removal
HankReardon writes:
SanctuaryCity,
Think Baby Think.
Don't listen to Rush Baby Rush (unless it's the Canadian rock band).
February 17, 2009
3:20 p.m.
Suggest removal
FlyfishDude52 writes:
Fisherman - Yes and NASDAQ & S& P are off 20+.
It's not that we weren't getting shafted before by W & clinton & reagan & bush sr & etc, etc. It's just that this bit of legislation, in sheer magnitude, dwarfs any previous piece robbing the American public legislation ever. I'm not negative about it, it's just that it's doomed to failure even before the $ flow like the parting of the Red Sea or the ash from Vesuvious. This will have the exact opposite effect that our useless, sell the American public's soul to the devil for generations to come, U.S. Congress thinks it will. Oh, wrong again. Congress knows exactly what they've done; pushed the USA a few steps further down the road of nationalization and socialism. Whoopee $hit!
February 17, 2009
3:20 p.m.
Suggest removal
KW writes:
'Off 298, Dow ends just above November low'
Stocks tumble as worries mount that the Obama stimulus package won't ease the recession's pain.
Stocks slumped today, with the Dow Jones Industrial Average finishing just above its Nov. 20 closing low.
The reason was increasing worry that the recession is gaining strength around the world and that efforts to stimulate economies in the United States and elsewhere won't work.
The blue chips closed down 298 points, or 3.8%, to 7,552.60. That was 31 hundredths of a point above the Dow's Nov. 20 close of 7,552.29, its lowest close of the current bear market.
http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/...
February 17, 2009
3:20 p.m.
Suggest removal
Triumph writes:
danirobi
You must realize Obama is a publicity and glory hound. He is a narcistic demigod that craves adoration and worship. Plus he seems to hate being in the Oval Office doing his job.I suspect he's a lazy person who takes credit for others accomplishment. In short he's a showboat. Look at me, Look what I did, Love Me.
One good thing is that his fan base is dwindling as this unpopular stimulus package has proven and will probably fail in the end. All the no "change" Cabinet nominations and appointments full of Clinton retreads and tax evaders. Only his hare core leftwingers will be left to defend him when this pig in a poke doesn't fly. Just as most of Bill Clinton's fickle fans ended up voting for George Bush in 2000. He'll be a one term, one trick pony.
February 17, 2009
3:21 p.m.
Suggest removal
GladysKravitz writes:
T1: "..... explains why Democrats end with the word RATS!" And that also explains why the GOP are really Republi-CAN'Ts, because they CAN'T get their act together. Can't compromise, Can't work with the President. Can't do much. Instead of focusing on the real bread and butter issues facing our nation, they are more concerned about who can marry whom, prayer in our schools, Creationism and religious dogma.
February 17, 2009
3:25 p.m.
Suggest removal
H20 writes:
GladysKravitz that is some strange logic!! Did you take your meds today?
February 17, 2009
3:26 p.m.
Suggest removal
windskull writes:
beergut you hit the nail square,
I am torn between DuPont flat out lying about never removing the lead from their paint where the danirobi`s of today cut teeth on the windowsills OR these are in some cases grown infants we have seen for the past 2 decades wearing a half ping pong ball helmet stuffed in those vinyl hot house rick shaw carts being dragged through traffic at exhaust pipe level by their screwball parents
February 17, 2009
3:26 p.m.
Suggest removal
RockyMts69 writes:
Great post JMH!!! Well said!
February 17, 2009
3:27 p.m.
Suggest removal
JMaster writes:
GOOD JOB President Obama!!!!!!!!
Hey T1panda....please, please do the Democrats end in rats on EVERY post again because it gets SO much funnier each time I read it......tool!
And somebody give Scott a Prozac so he doesn't take his own life....sniff poor Scott.
February 17, 2009
3:32 p.m.
Suggest removal
laughingman writes:
Snivel snivel snivel, whine, moan...is this all you're going to do for four years? An earlier post was right on the money in stating that the last puppet spent trillions of dollars in a failed scheme overseas, one that is STILL costing us trillions. Awwww, but you poor widdle partisan hackjobs....gotta bicker and whine and mope..do you need some candy? Hmm? do you need some widdle candies? At least this money is being spent on US. Who sold our children out more? Hmm?? You aren't going to win on this one. Your puppet spent just as much and as a result we are STILL spending in a failed war that was started on false premises. At least this new puppet is spending it here. You can't argue with that, little droogies! You won't win this one...heck, face it...you lost, kids! So don't go bringing up "lost futures for our children" when you were going to vote into office Palin of all people! BWA HA HA HA!!!!
Once again, to use your old motto..love it or leave it. Snivel snivel, you poor, poor partisan tools!
February 17, 2009
3:36 p.m.
Suggest removal
GladysKravitz writes:
Come on H20....you can do better than that can't you. Take my meds....??? Paleeeeze that is so tired. Try another one?
February 17, 2009
3:38 p.m.
Suggest removal
Slimjim_800 writes:
The government is once again choosing the winners and losers for us. With bush it was hedge fund managers, stock holders, and pharmaceutical companies. Obama has chosen a much larger part of the population including the indigent, green energy, and the unemployed.
For all you stock watchers out there stocks are likely going down because it is now more likely that Bush tax cuts will be repealed. Which means your dividend in GE is probably not going to yield the same after tax benefits.
February 17, 2009
3:40 p.m.
Suggest removal
KW writes:
Now why hasn't Obama pulled the plug on Iraq?
Or Gitmo?
Or Bush's tax cuts?
And which party closed the door to the Republicans when they first crafted this spending bill? Who was it again that refused to work across party lines?
And who promised no lobbyists in his cabinet?
And transparency?
And no earmarks or wasteful spending?
When Obama had $389 million in earmarks for fiscal 2008, does it come as any surprise that he couldn't quit the habit after becoming president?
February 17, 2009
3:43 p.m.
Suggest removal
Triumph writes:
NEWS FLASH!!
OBAMA BREAKS OWN ARM PATTING HIMSELF ON THE BACK!!
NEWS FLASH!!
OBAMA SIGNS STIMULUS PACKAGE AND GIVES THE SHIRTS OF HARD WORKING AMERICANS TO OTHERS AND CONTINUES TO PAT HIMSELF ON THE BACK WITH THE OTHER ARM!!
CAN YOU SPELL REDISTRIBUTION OF WEALTH?
February 17, 2009
3:49 p.m.
Suggest removal
leavemealone writes:
What a load of GARBAGE
February 17, 2009
3:51 p.m.
Suggest removal
Squatch writes:
We have no problem spending Trillions in Iraq so that the 10% who rob America blind everyday can do so legally by war profiteering.
Obama is far from perfect but that Last Administrations put us in this pickle and YES I did vote for Bush twice. I can only be scared so much that the Democrats will take my guns and hunting privileges away. Due to these wars the cost of ammo has tripled so I cant shoot my guns as often and we have given permission for companies to encroach on hunting grounds for the sake of fuel.
February 17, 2009
3:56 p.m.
Suggest removal
T1anda writes:
Gee whiz the way I read it GKravitz.....Republican ends with two words I CAN!
The voices in your head must have taken a vote and decided to add a T in the mix? Bwahahaha!
February 17, 2009
3:57 p.m.
Suggest removal
sheepherder writes:
Why does everyone assume Republicans listen to Rush and are flaming christians...that is just ignorant.
February 17, 2009
3:58 p.m.
Suggest removal
GladysKravitz writes:
I can't wait to get my $400. WooHoo! hey wait a minute didn't W do the same thing???? Did all these anti-Obama/pro-Bush neocons complain then? Somehow I doubt it. I'll bet they spent it on more guns and ammo.
February 17, 2009
4:01 p.m.
Suggest removal
JMH writes:
Futureshock...
I love how you stooges cry about the "redistribution of wealth" but for the last 8 years all we saw was the "redistribution of wealth"... to the top 2%!!!
In the last decade the average wealth of the top 2% has increased by 30%... the average wealth of the middle class has stayed stagnet and even slightly dropped!
BTW... Here is the NeoCon dictionary -
"redistribution of wealth" means "giving the AVERAGE taxpayer a break for once"
"socialism" means "no more tax cuts for the super rich"
"pork" means "anything that isn't a tax cut"
"not working across party lines" means "not falling in line with the same old, failed GOP policies"
"forfeitting the future of our grandchildren" means "how dare they try to fix our mistakes and actually give middle class children a future"
Once the NeoCon language is decoded, you can actually understand their ramblings...
February 17, 2009
4:01 p.m.
Suggest removal
Scott writes:
GladysKravitz,
For God' sake TAKE YOUR MEDS!
When W pushed for the $400 buck give away posters to this forum from BOTH SIDES complained about it. Or are you a typical dem and have and incredibly short memory?
Again, TAKE YOUR MEDS!
Scott
February 17, 2009
4:02 p.m.
Suggest removal
BHS1976 writes:
Great picture on the front page, who airbrushed out all the Berry Cherry Kool Aid mustaches.
gladys K. It was a tax rebate as you remember you had to claim it the next year. I know you can't get your grape around this one but there is no such thing as a free lunch...
February 17, 2009
4:06 p.m.
Suggest removal
gregu710 writes:
"Fisherman writes:
...and the DOW fell 300 points."
SO... Every time someone passes gas the Dow falls or rises 500 points, just depends on which way the wind is blowing. Trying to gauge the economy by the ups and downs of Wall St. right now is a futile effort since they now change their minds about whether it's a good day or a bad day about as often as the gas speculators overreacted and drove up the price of gas. Pure illogical human emotion at the helm right now. I wouldn't be surprised anymore if the DOW went UP 2000 points after it was announced that all life on Earth would end with a meteor impact next week!
February 17, 2009
4:07 p.m.
Suggest removal
HankReardon writes:
sheepherder,
Because they all sound the same. Same points, same rhetoric, same 'messiah-socialist-koolaid drinking-pork-blah blah'. But they aren't true Republicans, are they?
February 17, 2009
4:07 p.m.
Suggest removal
GladysKravitz writes:
T1...y'know something you have a point.. Republ-I-CAN.... I CAN... I CAN sit on my hands and not support this plan, I CAN pretend that the fundementals of our ecomony are strong, I CAN ignore the problems in our nation, I CAN give bail outs to corporate American (corporate socialism), I CAN invade the private lives of Americans, I CAN get into bed with the religious right to dictate public policy.... but guess what, YES WE CAN put Obama and the Democrats (no matter how you spell or interpret it), into office. So I stand somewhat correct the Republ-I-Cans, CAN do a lot. They CAN learn how to lose. Bwhahahahah!
February 17, 2009
4:07 p.m.
Suggest removal
Fisherman writes:
Where would the stock market be if Obama had signed $787 billions dollars worth of tax relief? Up or down?
February 17, 2009
4:09 p.m.
Suggest removal
ActualThinker writes:
Actually gladys if you research the $400 tax rebate (this time spread out over a year) was put in solely as a concession to get the republicans moving forward on it. Having it not in there would have saved us a lot of money, giving people an extra $8 a paycheck will not do anything to stimulate the economy, just like it didnt when bush was giving it out.
My main problem is that for everyone who wants to complain about it no one wants to present a reasonable good alternative. It stinks to have to spend this kind of money, but doing nothing is a far worse option (read your history books and see how that approach has fared in the past). Tax cuts that "trickle down" do not stimulate the economy. Spending on worthwhile things does, this bill has very little pork especially compared to the first six years of the bush era. and while comparing this why dont you go back and see how transparent those spending bills were? See how much notice and attention was given in 2004 when deregulation was being passed left and right.
And yes $800 billion is expensive. But it's less than the trillion we've spent on a war that makes us no better off. Personally I'll take $800 billion and rebuilt schools, roads, updated medical record systems etc over $1 trillion and dead Americans, but thats just me.
February 17, 2009
4:09 p.m.
Suggest removal
GladysKravitz writes:
Scott...take your meds.... take your meds!!! You gotta come up with some swifter come backs than that. That's so tired!
February 17, 2009
4:11 p.m.
Suggest removal
INC writes:
leavemealone, GARBAGE??? Garbage is now a thing of the past. everything is recyclable...
get with it man.
the wind blew enough today to have produced all the electricity for today. (not From Obama either) cheer up and look on the bright side of things.
look at Squatch... even he is getting the message.
February 17, 2009
4:14 p.m.
Suggest removal
Scott writes:
GladysKravitz,
Now that you whimpered about my comment regarding your meds, ADDRESS WHAT I STATED ABOUT POSTERS TO THIS FORUM!
Scott
February 17, 2009
4:15 p.m.
Suggest removal
GladysKravitz writes:
Let me state some reality....this will put people and keep people working. I know that my employer is well positioned to bid on the contracts that will help restore and improve infrastructure. So I welcome this bill.
February 17, 2009
4:16 p.m.
Suggest removal
leavemealone writes:
Bye Bye Obama....
February 17, 2009
4:16 p.m.
Suggest removal
Rogue5 writes:
"And it is a plan that will be implemented with an unprecedented level of transparency and accountability."
-so, I guess that's why no one got the oppotunity to read it, including BO himself.
"that's what we owe our children,"
-actually, our children will be the ones who "owe"
Nice try though. I see that Wall St. has the utmost of confidence in the plan, as they dropped almost 300 points. Must be they didn't get to read it , either.
February 17, 2009
4:16 p.m.
Suggest removal
flyingcouch writes:
What happens when interest payments on the national debt are larger than the tax revenues collected? How long before that happens with multi-trillion dollar deficits each year?
February 17, 2009
4:17 p.m.
Suggest removal
GoldenKid writes:
FuterShock,
Spot on!
What a scam to piss away 787 Billion dollars. That rivals George Bush. Good luck America, we're going to need it.
JMH is a thinkskinned neo-Dem that thinks George Bush's blunders justify Obama's. Take a chill pill and wash it down with your Poison Kool Aid. The truth is a hard pill to swallow isn't it JMH?
February 17, 2009
4:18 p.m.
Suggest removal
gregu710 writes:
Rogue5, again, so what that stocks dropped 300 points, tommorrow they'll probably come back 400, just as they have been doing for a while now, up a lot, down more, up some, down some....
February 17, 2009
4:19 p.m.
Suggest removal
RockyMts69 writes:
Marka82331, the biggest embarrasment and thief is down in Texas right now...
At least Obama had the nerve to come to Denver and make a public appearance instead of landing on an aircraft carrier and trying to convince everyone that the war was over...
February 17, 2009
4:19 p.m.
Suggest removal
leavemealone writes:
The wind tried to blow the stink out of the air.....it had to blow extra hard!
February 17, 2009
4:20 p.m.
Suggest removal
gregu710 writes:
"SanctuaryCity writes:
CRASH BABY CRASH"
SO, Sanctuary, am I reading this right that just to spite the Democrats you are hoping that our country crashes further. If that is the case, please take your anti-American tripe elsewhere. If you love your party more than our country, you are the greatest of tools! You deserve whatever misfortune befalls you, and any others like you...
February 17, 2009
4:21 p.m.
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JMH writes:
WhatsanObamer,
The truth? You wouldn't know it if it hit you in the face... but the NeoCon BS that you been swallowing for the last decade must really go down hard! LOL... Take a breath mint too... OK?
February 17, 2009
4:21 p.m.
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GladysKravitz writes:
Am I a typical Dem? Was that your question or just inane rhetoric? If so you'll need to clarify "typical". I voted Democrat if that's what you need to know. Bring it on!
February 17, 2009
4:22 p.m.
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T1anda writes:
GKravitz remind the little friends in your head that you're pffffffttt.
You poor thing!
Tee Hee!(whisper) See if she will echo the Tee Hee like she did the bwahaha.
February 17, 2009
4:23 p.m.
Suggest removal
INC writes:
one would think all the republicans would be busy forming construction company's now. (with the customary inflated prices, like Haliburton and KBR) instead of screaming into the wind like all the naysayers are here doing now.
February 17, 2009
4:27 p.m.
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Rogue5 writes:
gregu710,
Yeah the stock market has little to do with this fiasco, unless you have a 401K.The stock market has been trending down for a year now, and won't be back anytime soon. You can go back to sleep now.
February 17, 2009
4:28 p.m.
Suggest removal
maxine writes:
Is everyone feeling stimulated yet?
February 17, 2009
4:28 p.m.
Suggest removal
HEBtommy writes:
Welcome to the US of Sweden and the largest transfer of private wealth to a government in the World's history. The USA as we knew it died today. The original intent of the Constitution was to keep the government off the back of its citizens. Now we will wear it like an ox yoke. So much for life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. OBTW, did ya notice that Obama's your mama and senile Grandpa Biden took separate airplanes to Denver. What a bunch of hypocrites. Is it time to get the pitchforks and tar and feathers out? Time to run em out of town on a rail. God help us!
February 17, 2009
4:28 p.m.
Suggest removal
GladysKravitz writes:
T1...do you have anything itellegent to say than assinine taunts? teeheee heheheh.... there is a good Yiddish saying "gey klupplin deyn kup auff en want" .... keep slamming your head against the wall. SCHMUCK! How are those voices in your schmeggegy head now?
February 17, 2009
4:28 p.m.
Suggest removal
Denver7 writes:
gregu710: all life on Earth would end with a meteor impact next week.................I'd better sell my house and buy some more ammo. funny!
February 17, 2009
4:29 p.m.
Suggest removal
JMH writes:
GladysKravits,
Don't expect anything new and witty from the NeoCons today, Rush has signed off today and they wont have any new material until tomorrow when he comes back on...
Want to have some fun?
Listen to Rush tomorrow (as painful as it may be) then check on here and count how many of these knucklehead NeoCons are repeating (almost always verbatim) the new "Rushian talking points" on whatever the subject is tomorrow...
IT IS HYSTERICAL!!!
It will be roughly 2/3rds... It is everyday... They apparently are unable to think for themselves and all their "witty" attacks are always just them parroting Rush... Where you think they get all this nonsense like "Porkulus" and such? Have fun with it... I always do!
February 17, 2009
4:30 p.m.
Suggest removal
zuropa_man writes:
BTW- I wonder what the carbon footprint was for Barrack Marx to fly from DC to Denver and back just to sign a piece of paper? Put that in your pipe and smoke it.
February 17, 2009
4:31 p.m.
Suggest removal
Fisherman writes:
gregu710 writes:
"...so what that stocks dropped 300 points,"
Are you saying spending $787B doesn't impact the market?
February 17, 2009
4:33 p.m.
Suggest removal
leavemealone writes:
Our government can't fix the current/future economic situation.
However, it can make it much worse.
& it just did (Including last October)
February 17, 2009
4:36 p.m.
Suggest removal
Scott writes:
Regarding GaldysKravitz 4:21 PM posting: She is STILL dancing around my main point of which I will restate:
When W pushed for the $400 buck give away posters to this forum from BOTH SIDES complained about it.
This statement was in regards to her 3:58 p.m.: "Did all these anti-Obama/pro-Bush neocons complain then? Somehow I doubt it. I'll bet they spent it on more guns and ammo." Question and answer.
I wonder if she is FINALLY going to confront my statement? BTW Gladys, I too am registered dem, but I typically don't vote for those socialists.
Scott
p.s. I spent my W check on a long weekend get away with the wife.
February 17, 2009
4:38 p.m.
Suggest removal
homeradam writes:
Isn't funny how the 'Rats blame this on the Republicans. Lost in all of this is Barney "Smurf" Frank and Bill "Oral me" Clinton who said all Americans should have affordable housing. Loan money to the poor who couldn't even pay their rent. Let them fall like trees full of spotted owls. Rolando Burris is now under investigation for lying about the Blago money raising scheme. Lord how I hope the Messiah Nobama is named in this.
February 17, 2009
4:39 p.m.
Suggest removal
GladysKravitz writes:
JMH...I know...I know and how sad too. It is hard to listen to Rush or Hannity or O'Reilly. Actually I edit Faux News off my TV menu along with all the Christian Talabangelist programs.
February 17, 2009
4:40 p.m.
Suggest removal
marka82331 writes:
RockyMts69,
Typical ignorant response from the left. Any criticism of current policies and actions is countered with a stale attack on Bush. Bush was a poor leader and made countless mistakes, we all know that. I suppose we'll continue to hear about Bush as your primary defense for the next four years. You can't defend on any reasonable ground this ridiculous spending bill, so you lash out somewhere else. Next you'll say "we won. we won. nah na nah na nah." or something intelligent like that.
February 17, 2009
4:42 p.m.
Suggest removal
JMaster writes:
Hey marka82331...."We won. we won....nah na nah na nah!" It may lack intelligence but it SURE IS FUNNY!!!!!!!
February 17, 2009
4:43 p.m.
Suggest removal
portal_pyramids writes:
Obama rocks! God bless him and God bless the USA!
Also, for you people crying about President Obama and V.P. arriving in different planes, think for a second why that would be policy. Need another minute? Obviously in case of a crash (god forbid) you wouldnt want the to top heads of state in the same plane, right?
Pretty sad that all you can come up with is pettiness. Grow up and deal with the consequences of 8 years of failed republican policies
February 17, 2009
4:44 p.m.
Suggest removal
windskull writes:
Gee with all the "wind" references I should seek royalties, anybody want an autograph? lol
February 17, 2009
4:44 p.m.
Suggest removal
Rogue5 writes:
So, JMaster, tell me what you won. And, by the way, go smoke another one.
February 17, 2009
4:46 p.m.
Suggest removal
GladysKravitz writes:
Scott...and your dancing around my response....won't face the statement/or question. So it was just rhetoric? The hypocricy about you is that you ended up blowing your $400 on your wife than sending it back, doing your part to reduce the deficit. We can tango and dance around this all day....but being the polite person that I am i don't want to have to make you my beeeotch.
February 17, 2009
4:48 p.m.
Suggest removal
HighwayRobbery writes:
There could be no better investment in America than to invest in America becoming energy independent! We need to utilize everything in out power to reduce our dependence on foreign oil including using our own natural resources. Create cheap clean energy, new badly needed green jobs, and reduce our dependence on foreign oil. The high cost of fuel this past year seriously damaged our economy and society. The cost of fuel effects every facet of consumer goods from production to shipping costs. After a brief reprieve gas is inching back up. OPEC will continue to cut production until they achieve their desired 80-100. per barrel. If all gasoline cars, trucks, and SUV's instead had plug-in electric drive trains, the amount of electricity needed to replace gasoline is about equal to the estimated wind energy potential of the state of North Dakota. There is a really good new book out by Jeff Wilson called The Manhattan Project of 2009 Energy Independence Now. http://www.themanhattanprojectof2009.com
February 17, 2009
4:48 p.m.
Suggest removal
laughingman writes:
It looks like I can come here to see quite possibly the most anti-American diatribe yet! Rail on, you idiotic tools! Again, We spent trillions of dollars on war that was waged on false pretenses, yet everybody is sniveling about this? What a bunch of crap. I haven't exactly seen anybody argue against that point. And for those of you hoping that everything fails, what exactly is that? It doesn't matter what "side" it's coming from, it is just plain ridiculous! You are all ridiculous! As much as I couldn't stand our last puppet, I didn't wish for anything to fail! What a foolish bunch you are. And again, to put it quite simply, to quote most of you...love it or leave it, tools! You are all sheep. Partisan nutjob sheep. All of you.
February 17, 2009
4:48 p.m.
Suggest removal
Denver7 writes:
portal_pyramids: yep, if we lost them both in a plane crash that would put us much to close to Pelosi and Clinton. I'll keep Obama, thank you.
February 17, 2009
4:49 p.m.
Suggest removal
BenchBoss writes:
Ooooohhhh..... market goes down. And - those commenting on this fact have been watching the market for HOW long? Stick to your day jobs which seems to involve much whining on here.
To use this cause-effect logic as it relates to the Dow, November 20th could have been as much about the housing crisis as Jerry Yang stepping down as Yahoo CEO. Or - Bo Derek's birthday. Yeah - it went down. It's going down even further. We'll see new lows. Strap in, brainiacs. Part of the reason for stimulus incentive.
February 17, 2009
4:50 p.m.
Suggest removal
Who_Me writes:
Has he left yet? Couldn't go flying this morning because of The Arrival.
February 17, 2009
4:57 p.m.
Suggest removal
HisPrinceMichael writes:
Appropriately, Today at Denver's Museum of Nature & Science,
a Divinely-inspired and once-greatly blessed Republic took
another giant step towards, EXTINCTION.
THE Battle, has just BEGUN:
http://www.all4webs.com/q/f/love4yahweh
February 17, 2009
4:57 p.m.
Suggest removal
RockyMts69 writes:
Marka, I'm ignorant? It was'nt my idea to land on the USS Lincoln and give a "Mission Accomplished" speech.
And no I won't use Bush's failed policies as my defense, I just have to live with them...
February 17, 2009
5:02 p.m.
Suggest removal
Denver7 writes:
Just curious, John McCain was 72 when he ran for president. A lot of people said he was too old. How old is too old to be president?
February 17, 2009
5:08 p.m.
Suggest removal
Buckwheat writes:
Cool...I see it is already working.. For a mere 16.6B more GM says it will only lay off 47,000 more workers. And Chrysler says for 5B more it will only lay off 3,000 (Ya see people can't buy cars if they have no money). And they can't borrow from banks if they don't have any to pay it back. I may not make much or anything by protecting my nest egg, but I sure as hell won't loose a dime more because of a crappy market. I'll ride this one out thanks..
February 17, 2009
5:12 p.m.
Suggest removal
Denver7 writes:
Buckwheat: you going to spend your $13 a week on a new car? Dealin' Doug is looking for someone to buy those two KIA's
February 17, 2009
5:14 p.m.
Suggest removal
portal_pyramids writes:
Hey Obama you so fine, you so fine you blow my mind, hey Obama! Hey Obama!
February 17, 2009
5:15 p.m.
Suggest removal
MrYeahBut writes:
Nice job Obama...way to get sh** done!
Secured money for some much needed domestic improvements...particularly infrastructure.
I am impressed so far.
February 17, 2009
5:16 p.m.
Suggest removal
John_Galt writes:
They will have to fumigate the museum because of a bad case of B.O. (aka The Big Zero)!
February 17, 2009
5:22 p.m.
Suggest removal
History writes:
Wow John Galt - that was an intelligent comment, well like it or not he is our President. Maybe the only thing that should be fumigated is your post
February 17, 2009
5:23 p.m.
Suggest removal
johnson writes:
Why was Biden here any way? Just to use up more jet fuel? And, yes, I know about the 2 of them flying together. But why was he here?
February 17, 2009
5:23 p.m.
Suggest removal
portal_pyramids writes:
This is the new America baby! Love it or leave it!
February 17, 2009
5:24 p.m.
Suggest removal
bushmaster writes:
how embarrassing for our State. Should have been signed in France.
February 17, 2009
5:25 p.m.
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T1anda writes:
GKravitz........ my response to your 4:28 post..... The word is spelled intelligent...not intellegent! So typical! Ho Hum!
February 17, 2009
5:28 p.m.
Suggest removal
History writes:
Johnson - I think Biden was here for one reason and one only, to make you angry. You see that is Obama/Bidens goal and many posters have figured this out. Don't you see it, it is so clear, every decision Obama makes is to ruin this country, to crash our economy and of course, of prime importance to make their opposition angry. That is why ;)
February 17, 2009
5:32 p.m.
Suggest removal
MrYeahBut writes:
I think that one of the major reasons that America's greatness may be declining can be understood from reading many of the comments in this thread. There is such an overwhelming amount of cynicism, negativity, hateful partisan rhetoric, and intolerance that I wonder if this country really does have a chance to get back on the right track. It's not just the President's job to fix these things.
Get your minds right people.
February 17, 2009
5:35 p.m.
Suggest removal
johnson writes:
"History", no really, why was Biden here? I don't think the bill needed his witness signature.Waste of taxpayers money. Legitimate question.
February 17, 2009
5:35 p.m.
Suggest removal
Buckwheat writes:
Denver7
Hey bud, I'am all over that one. KIA's at Stealin' Doug's..
You bettcha man... Give it to the Koreans...
February 17, 2009
5:39 p.m.
Suggest removal
johnson writes:
Two 747's to fly 2 different people to Denver and beyond. At what cost? Fuel, aircraft personnel, ground crews, security? A waste of MY money!!!
February 17, 2009
5:39 p.m.
Suggest removal
zuropa_man writes:
MrYeahBut - when Obama is as extremely socialist as his words and actions are demonstrating, freedom-loving capitalists SHOULD be cynical.
God Bless America
February 17, 2009
5:40 p.m.
Suggest removal
History writes:
Johnson - I think his reason for being there was to show unity, if he wasn't there I am sure there would be those lambasting him for not being there, claiming that he and Obama were not on the same page. Furthermore, god for bid if something happen to the Pres. it might be reassuring that the VP was right there for the signing of such important (good or bad) legislation and that if the unthinkable happen that the VP would be ready and able to move forward. He is after all the VP.
February 17, 2009
5:41 p.m.
Suggest removal
zuropa_man writes:
portal_pyramids - we will NOT leave, we will take it back, by force if necessary.
February 17, 2009
5:43 p.m.
Suggest removal
History writes:
Johnson - "waste of MY money" - No, how self centered. At least be accurate, if you think it was a waste, then it was a waste of OUR money. Once you pay taxes, that is no longer your money.
Also why are you focusing on a side story, is the VP really the story. Why not discuss the merits of the stimulus package, or is all you want to do is gripe about something
February 17, 2009
5:44 p.m.
Suggest removal
zuropa_man writes:
MrYeahBut - secured money for much needed projects? You sound a bit like my 5 year old son, "It's OK daddy, just go get some money from the free-money machine."
You people truly are infantile.
February 17, 2009
5:44 p.m.
Suggest removal
BenchBoss writes:
Nevermind the cost(s) of Iraq - let's bicker about 747 jet fuel.
Oh, wait, I thought that was 'Mission Accomplished'.
February 17, 2009
5:48 p.m.
Suggest removal
History writes:
Zuropa - "by force if necessary" oooooooh tough talk tough guy. Well have fun.
Also if you think Obama is a socialists then I suggest you turn to a book, an unbiased source, perhaps a dictionary and look up the term socialism. Then analyze that definition with the stimulus package. Don't be afraid, go ahead see what you find out
February 17, 2009
5:51 p.m.
Suggest removal
MrYeahBut writes:
Zuropa,
That's exactly my point. We haven't truely been a pure laissez-faire Capitalism since the late 1800's (if we've ever truely been). That was a disaster for the majority of the country. Since then we have operated off of a Capitalist/Socialist hybrid economy, attempting to incorporate the best aspects of both.
Perpetuating empty Cold War rhetoric of Capitalist=Good and Socialist=Bad is exactly the type of empty accusations that in no way help us better understand our economic situation nor does it do anything more than ruffle some partisan feathers. I'm truely surprised that anyone is still willing to buy into such a simplistic ecomonic worldview.
February 17, 2009
5:55 p.m.
Suggest removal
SallyJitterbug writes:
I am so excited! Especially now that we are all so greatly enhanced with the ability to spend. But I'm a bit embarrassed because I don't know what I'm supposed to be spending.
February 17, 2009
5:56 p.m.
Suggest removal
johnson writes:
History, I asked a legit question. Curious. Side bar or not.Why was the VP here? Biden could have shown his unity in a text to Obama's Blackbarry.
February 17, 2009
6:01 p.m.
Suggest removal
gardog writes:
Windskull - What exactly is a "Living wage"? And is it that some people talk about this concept without realizing that the people doing that work - illegal or otherwise - seem to be "living"????
Perhaps you need to use some free government money and take a college course in Logic.
February 17, 2009
6:01 p.m.
Suggest removal
MrYeahBut writes:
zuropa,
Why do you find it necessary to insult me? Are you unable to express your frustration with my opinions like an intelligent adult? You are the exact problem that I was refering to when I said "hateful partisan rhetoric". You find it necessary to demonize or personaly attack anyone who disagrees with you.
You and those like you are a cancer to our country.
.
February 17, 2009
6:03 p.m.
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History writes:
Johnson - your question was legit but not particularly relevant, but you can keep on asking the question in the hope deflecting the really discussion and continue to ignore my legit answer to your legit but irrelevant question.
If Biden had simply texted his support to Obama then you would have been all over him for being detached from this piece of legislation
February 17, 2009
6:05 p.m.
Suggest removal
laughingman writes:
Zuropa writes that "we will take it back by force if necessary"
BWA HA HA HA HA!!! And you are proposing CIVIL WAR? God, you are quite the level headed douche, aren't you? What are you going to do when your family decides that they LIKE what is going on, kill them too? By force, puh-leeze! You and what army? Are you going to join forces with the billionaires who refused to serve, or refuse to send their own children into a war that they created? What exactly are you losing right now that you haven't already lost? Big man talking big words, I'm sure your chest is all puffed up and you are beating on it like the monkey you are. What a tool. 'By force'...Ha! What joke. People who put party before country are the biggest, blindest sheep of them all. By force...get out of here, you joke of a human being!
February 17, 2009
6:15 p.m.
Suggest removal
johnson writes:
History: "your question was legit but not particularly relevant, but you can keep on asking the question in the hope deflecting the really discussion and continue to ignore my legit answer to your legit but irrelevant question."
What the hell does that mean? You sound like some tech support from India.
February 17, 2009
6:30 p.m.
Suggest removal
seeker writes:
zuropa_man writes:
portal_pyramids - we will NOT leave, we will take it back, by force if necessary.
See, this is the kind of stuff that is really dangerous. Are you threatening to form a revolution? Because the President is trying to save the United States from utter financial ruin? Are you committing treason? Attempting to overthrow a democratically elected President? Are you unpatriotic and working against the majority of Americans who want the stimulus to work? Just what do you mean “by force if necessary??” I know what it sounds like to me.
It sounds to me like you and others I have read have either crossed over or are on the edge of crossing over to overthrowing the government of the United States....or at the very least threatening the leader of our country. No matter how many times I disagreed with the Bush administration, and we were way up into the double digits, I never came close to that line. Never. No matter what, George W. Bush was my President, good or bad, right or wrong. My President. But you guys are fired up by something that burns hotter and deeper than partisan politics and it's dangerous. The hate and the actual expressed hope that this stimulus fails, that this President fails is not only unpatriotic but borders on treason. You would rather see the end of this great Nation than to see this bill succeed. Or so it would seem.
Try to remember who we are; who you are. This is America. We are supposed to be the good guys. Good guys do not want the United States to fail. They do not want their President to fail. The majority of Americans want this stimulus to work and succeed and put us back to work and to save our country. We need to stand united and work together to bring the United States back to her rightful place in the world. This can only happen if we work together and stop the threats and the name calling. You on the right had not only the time under Clinton to be in control but 8 years with a Republican President. Things went badly. Politics 101 is simple. You get blamed when things go wrong if you are the guys in charge. It’s the Democrats turn now to try to fix the mess we are in. Either help them or stay out of the way. You don’t get to pretend you were fiscally responsible when blew it for all this time. No one’s really buying it…..maybe your base, but the rest of us are really not listening. So join in and help but stop the threats…..maybe you should have jumped in when your boys were jacking this country up. Too late now. So this is the new government. Let’s try to fix this mess and not start a revolution.
February 17, 2009
6:31 p.m.
Suggest removal
gregu710 writes:
Rogue, and Fisherman, maybe spending 800 Billion WILL stimulate the markets, maybe it won't. My point was, that seems to have been missed, is that the markets have been fluctuating wildly up and down for a few months now with little or no logical reason. So, to peg a drop in the market to this when no other rise or fall has been due to any logical root cause is false logic. Back to bed for me, I can't compete with all of the keen logic here....
February 17, 2009
6:31 p.m.
Suggest removal
farfield writes:
If this is suppose to be such a great thing $700+ BILLON and with interest over $1.3TRILLION then why did the congress stop at such a low number? Why not triple it? Just like minimum wage is "the Savior of the poor" why stop at $9.00 or even $20 per hour??? Seems like we are finally waking up in this country to the fact that poor people don't have any idea how much money we really don't have in this country and most of them don't care they just want their share and take it from anyone even the unborn... whoops Obama has his way want be any baby left behind that the mother doesn't want,, just like Hitler didn't want any one that was retarded or brown eyed or dark haired. Now did I really need to compare him to Obama. To those of you who are Nazi I apologize.
February 17, 2009
6:36 p.m.
Suggest removal
BenchBoss writes:
Thanks, seeker.
February 17, 2009
6:56 p.m.
Suggest removal
laughingman writes:
One could say that Zuropa is acting like...like...a TERRORIST! gasp!
February 17, 2009
6:57 p.m.
Suggest removal
farfield writes:
Zuropa man you must have had your head in the sand when Pelosi and the other democrats in the house adopted the new rules limiting how congress can debate and limit the input from the minority. Must be ok with you that the Republicans never did such a thing while in power. Must be ok that this bill HAD TO BE PASSED WITH OUT ANY ONE PERSON VOTING FOR OR AGAINST IT HAD THE TIME TO READ 1000 plus pages. If anyone is calling for a revolution its the officials I mention above. They took it on themselves to limit debating by adoption of such rules and procedures. And yes the Republicans did make a spending mess and if you remember they got fired for it. And if you remember no one ever ran the debt up as high as it is going and this congress and president never read the bill, never let anyone debate it, never tried to sell it except by fear. Now Im all for a President that is honest and sincere. Obama lacks both. He thinks passing and signing a bill that promotes such debt is OK when he does it but a few months back gave bush a black eye for letting it happen, and this is OK? At the very least his integrity here has to be in question. And he is sincere when he says he came from a background of adversity? How about telling us how it made him the man he is and how it helped him overcome and how anyone can have the same? He has never been sincere about this approach. Only about buying the "poor peoples" vote by making more public programs. And he is certainly above reproach. He has never admitted to cussing, yelling, or lusting after women, or lying, or being vindictive he sure sounds like Jesus on the surface. And even if someone asks any questions to his nature it is like he doesn't deserve that kind of treatment (guess cause he has to rise from such ashes of poverty in life) but if he was a republican or stood up for being creative and capitalist he'd be slammed.
He is my president too. And if I don't like what he does darned if I'm going to not call his hand. And I intend to keep praying for him too.
February 17, 2009
7:01 p.m.
Suggest removal
jay writes:
if we're going to nation build...as we attempted to do in iraq...it's about time we start rebuilding our own.
February 17, 2009
7:10 p.m.
Suggest removal
seeker writes:
See farfield, what with the Nazi remark? This is why you guys come off like arrogant, self agrandizing a-holes. We would never want the poor to do better....no....not one bit better. That would be decent.....we give no bid contracts....tax free to Blackwater and those people and help the very rich hold onto money they don't re-invest in America. Apologizing to Nazis is all we need to know about the likes of you.
February 17, 2009
7:20 p.m.
Suggest removal
NeilT writes:
Take by force, eh?
LOL!
You're one of the less-than-23-percent-Rush-babies. Good luck with that. As far as I'm concerned, we don't need to fight. You can take your red states and p*ss off. Yup, those good ol' federal welfare red states, where they contribute less to the nation than they receive. The least educated, most overweight among us. If you guys could put your bibles, Ayn Rand, fried chicken, meth, painkillers and sisters down long enough to face me, I might be concerned.
February 17, 2009
7:24 p.m.
Suggest removal
HisPrinceMichael writes:
Seeker 6:30 PM post: Uh, YOUR Pharaoh called and left
a message for you. He wants his empty, pandering, rhetoric
back.
Indeed, so many words, so little meaning.
Buy a dictionary, son, look-up Patriot.
THE Battle, has just BEGUN:
http://www.all4webs.com/q/f/love4yahweh
February 17, 2009
7:28 p.m.
Suggest removal
seeker writes:
NeilT
Sounds like a good stimulus job. Get a bunch of out of work guys and dig a very large ditch between the red & blue states....fill with water and alligators and let the confederacy secede from the union. It’s what they’ve always wanted anyway. They already have their freak flag ready.
February 17, 2009
7:34 p.m.
Suggest removal
NeilT writes:
Just thinking about the progress we could make, without those red anchors around our blue necks, is quite stimulating.
February 17, 2009
7:36 p.m.
Suggest removal
seeker writes:
Hey mikey,
Instead I looked up satan and guess what? It cross referenced your website and the word anti-Christ. I guess the big surprise to come is out of the box, huh?
February 17, 2009
7:37 p.m.
Suggest removal
Now_You_Know writes:
Obama and the Mile High State Rocks!!
Neocons, the sky is not falling..
February 17, 2009
7:38 p.m.
Suggest removal
ManginoTorreta writes:
Here's what should give people pause for thought about this bill. President Obama is claiming that this bill will provide a stimulus through massive infrastructure spending, both new and used.
Well, right in the same area where he signed the bill, is an metro-wide infrastructure project that is crying for money--FasTracks. If infrastructure spending was really the economic stimulus he claims that it is, why not mention this effort to build and expand our transportation network and cite this, a project in the very city where he was nominated, as a classic example of what the bill is supposed to be about?
February 17, 2009
7:40 p.m.
Suggest removal
ManginoTorreta writes:
"Just thinking about the progress we could make, without those red anchors around our blue necks, is quite stimulating."
Stalin's ghost agrees.
February 17, 2009
7:42 p.m.
Suggest removal
seeker writes:
ManginoTorreta
That announcement should come from a city or state official. But it's a great idea. Should have happened today to tie it in to the signing.
February 17, 2009
7:49 p.m.
Suggest removal
NeilT writes:
ManginoTorreta,
Nice.
I wasn't the one calling for a civil war. Mine was a peaceful solution. As seeker stated, y'all already have your own flag. It's what you've always wanted.
It's time to stop lying to ourselves...
Bipartisanship will never be.
February 17, 2009
7:50 p.m.
Suggest removal
seeker writes:
It's too bad that the "red anchors" seem to continually drown the poor and the least of our citizens. For all of their right wing evangelical rhetoric they seem to have totally misinterpereted the words of their Christian leader. Seems like the dirty "commie socialist Dems" have the spirit that should burn in the hearts of the moral majority.
February 17, 2009
7:56 p.m.
Suggest removal
HisPrinceMichael writes:
Seeker writes "..Hey Mikey I looked up S_ _ _ _ and guess
what? It crossed referenced your website and the word
anti-Christ....."
First off son, it's Prince MICHAEL to you and. Wait. whoa.
I've just had a recurring revelation:
THE MOST Pro-Abortion executive in history
Pro- Same-Sex "marriage"
Pro- Human Cloning
Pro-Afghantistan War (DEVOID of Mission Statement)
DEMANDS 787 BILLION Tax-payer dollars
*Known to speak from Roman-style columns*
Wow, and carefully deceives seemingly intelligent masses?
Seeker, it is affirmative: You've found YOUR guy.
THE Battle, has just BEGUN:
http://www.all4webs.com/q/f/love4yahweh
February 17, 2009
7:59 p.m.
Suggest removal
NeilT writes:
There was never anything moral about them, just politics. I'll give them the majority claim...the majority of the south.
Arabs and Persians were once a great, technologically advanced people. That is until fundamentalism took hold. It's a shame. We owe a lot to them, including that beautiful story of a nice liberal named Jesus.
February 17, 2009
8 p.m.
Suggest removal
HisPrinceMichael writes:
Pro-"Thought type-laws" (Regulate sermons by CLERGY??!)
February 17, 2009
8:05 p.m.
Suggest removal
NeilT writes:
Just like a fart in an elevator, HerPrincessMichelle, you linger...
February 17, 2009
8:06 p.m.
Suggest removal
HisPrinceMichael writes:
Neil T writes "...a nice liberal named Jesus...."
Overstand, if you will, in a social and political context of the time,
The Most Blessed Jesus the Christ, was a definitive radical.
February 17, 2009
8:08 p.m.
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NeilT writes:
Exactly...
February 17, 2009
8:09 p.m.
Suggest removal
HisPrinceMichael writes:
NeilT...you're so well-behaved for middle-school, if only
you were as bright.
February 17, 2009
8:12 p.m.
Suggest removal
seeker writes:
mikey.....is that the sound of you judging another's heart? Judging another's soul? I doubt that it's a recurring revelation. Maybe recurring gas from the bull you ingest and spew.
The man you speak of is trying to feed and clothe the least of us....isn't that the mission you claim to represent? No, not Prince Michael.....mikey the imposter. Your battle is fought in your own head, dude.
February 17, 2009
8:13 p.m.
Suggest removal
Now_You_Know writes:
HerprincessMichell
The battle is over, and you lost!
Move to Utah, crazy white boy!!!!!
February 17, 2009
8:14 p.m.
Suggest removal
NeilT writes:
How very Christian of you, Princess.
February 17, 2009
8:18 p.m.
Suggest removal
leavemealone writes:
Sorry Now_you_DONT_Know,
America lost today!
February 17, 2009
8:21 p.m.
Suggest removal
seeker writes:
Jesus the Christ would be hanging with the victims of AIDS, the gays, the poor, the hungry, the sick.....He'd be with the least of us were He on Earth today. He would not be hanging with Newt or Rush or O'Reilly or any of those who would deny food and assistance to those in need. No matter what party they belong to. He'd be with the lowest of our society. The ones that the Republicans want to ignore. Try to justify Christ with the Republicans. Pre-emptive fake war, denying food stamps, shelter, extended unemployment benefits, health care for children......
February 17, 2009
8:34 p.m.
Suggest removal
Now_You_Know writes:
Sleepalone
Hows it going my neocon friend? I agree with you! We should not put this kind of money in our Country!
We should put another TRILLON in Iraq! Lets put that kind money over there AGAIN or still. I agree with you, this is Carters fault. We both know Bush had nothing to do with this or the Retadticans for that matter.
As long as there is a (R) next to the name , you can do no harm to this Country. Wow you are smart. Cant beleave we lost with this kind of thinking!
February 17, 2009
8:43 p.m.
Suggest removal
Uno writes:
Now we know what Neil does in elevators.
February 17, 2009
8:46 p.m.
Suggest removal
Now_You_Know writes:
Sleepalone
As a proud Dem! I will never say America lost!
Maybe Russia is a good fit for you!
February 17, 2009
8:51 p.m.
Suggest removal
seeker writes:
leavemealone writes:
Sorry Now_you_DONT_Know,
America lost today!
With your attitude we couldn't be in worse company.....why can't we just for one friggin day get united and project a positive force of American will power and accomplishment? The only way America loses is if you keep up with the doom and gloom talk. Honestly, let's get a positive attitude going and keep our country going! What good can it possibly do to talk down our efforts to make things better? It's totally unpatriotic.....you who keep up this failure attitude are not helping our country.
Get in line to help save us or shut up.....positive words and minds are needed. Not your lousy depressing garbage. Yes it's a free country but enough of the negative rhetoric already! Stand up for the United States like our parents and grandparents did during the last depression. They survived it and we can too. Let's grow some and restore America to her glory days!
February 17, 2009
8:51 p.m.
Suggest removal
HisPrinceMichael writes:
Whoa. Hold-on Jeremiah...I mean "seeker". I'll establish
some truth first, then I'll work from there.
1. Nice try at diversion: "..Judging another man's heart..." (??)
I merely recalled SOME of the issues, your Pharaoh
has publicly voiced support for. "...Judging another mans
soul..." (?) That is a totally baseless claim, coming from
a person that referred to ME as "...the Anti-Christ..."
2. Your generic claim, as to who The Most Blessed
Jesus the Christ "..would be hanging with today..."
reveals much. Indeed, he would possibly MINISTER to ALL
those you mentioned, still, "....many are called, but, few
are chosen...."
3. The "War on Poverty" was established in the mid-nineteen-
Sixties, and with varying degrees of zeal, EVERY U.S.
President since has allowed various-related programs
to exist.
4. THE Battle, has just BEGUN:
http://www.all4webs.com/q/f/love4yahweh
February 17, 2009
9:03 p.m.
Suggest removal
seeker writes:
mikey
I don't want to play with you anymore. You are boring and no fun to antagonize. Your rebuttal makes not one bit of sense to me if in fact it is a rebuttal.
Christ is not someone I wish to banter about in foolishness. His life was an example of love and giving and speaks for itself.
You are an unusual character and I wish you well but I don't agree with your presentation of politics or the world. The actions of certain individuals on the right tell me all I need to know.
February 17, 2009
9:06 p.m.
Suggest removal
HisPrinceMichael writes:
Uh, My Parents and Grandparents (GREAT Americans):
A) Never had the blood of nearly fifty-MILLION unborn on
their hands
b) Prayed every morning in *gasp* SCHOOL?
c) Never believed "Adam and Adam" was what the God of Our
Founding Fathers intended
d) Never Went to War (Afghanistan) for no apparent REASON.
e) Never Attempted to play God, to "Clone" Human Beings
f) Believed Affirmative Action meant being THE BEST and working
THE HARDEST
So, please: Leave GOD, and my forefathers, out of THIS.
Because, THIS, is NOT "America".
February 17, 2009
9:13 p.m.
Suggest removal
Uno writes:
Seeker, some of us have been working hard and paying our taxes over the years, just to see more and more of it spent on the free-loaders, the lazy and con-artists of all kinds. Not just billions, but trillions. I hope you was talking to them when you said “Stand up for the United States like our parents and grandparents did during the last depression.” Because people today is nothing like our grandparents during the depression. Today most people wouldn’t know how to survive a real depression.
February 17, 2009
9:17 p.m.
Suggest removal
mytwosense writes:
Whether you're rooting for the Recovery and Reinvestment Act or can't stand it, here's a link where you can track its progress over the coming months: www.recovery.gov
According to the website: "Recovery.gov is a website that lets you, the taxpayer, figure out where the money from the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act is going. There are going to be a few different ways to search for information. The money is being distributed by Federal agencies, and soon you'll be able to see where it's going -- to which states, to which congressional districts, even to which Federal contractors."
February 17, 2009
9:24 p.m.
Suggest removal
MrYeahBut writes:
Michael,
No sane intelligent person gives a rat's arse about your ridiculous f'ing fairy tales. Drop it already.
February 17, 2009
9:25 p.m.
Suggest removal
seeker writes:
OK, mikey.....have it your way.
My parents and grandparents were and my Mother still is a great American. Father & Grandfather Veterans of WWI &II. There was abortion during their time.......although blood was not on their hands they did lose a relative to a botched abortion given by a back alley person. She died because her husband didn't want her to have another child....they already had 7 and he took her to a man who killed her getting rid of the baby. Women had no real say in the matter back in the 1930's....she was a victim and 7 children lost their mother. I don't approve of abortion but I can understand how her children felt when she died. How her family felt losing her. But long ago, mikey, women had no choice and she did what her husband made her do and she died. So there was abortion back then. We just didn’t keep track of how many. The times were not that innocent.
No one likes the idea of abortion, mikey. No one. It's a tragic thing that people do when they think they have no other choice. And what about the Republicans who don't want to help feed the babies of these mothers mikey? Who takes care of them? I don't want them dead either but lots of them are bi-racial and not many white republicans will adopt them. So what happens to them mikey? Where do they go? Into foster care limbo? No mommy to love them? Who will love these babies mikey? Will you? How many will you adopt? Big talk about the aborted babies but no action. I don't want them to die. I don't want abortions but will you feed them? If Obama feeds them you will have a hissy fit...the Republicans will suffer the vapors and pass out on the senate floor if they have to feed them mikey. So how many will you sign up for right now? What colors do you want them in? Will you take one crack baby or two?
February 17, 2009
9:26 p.m.
Suggest removal
HisPrinceMichael writes:
"Recovery.GOV" ?? Riiiiiiiight-riiiiiiight *wink*
I'll be at Recovery-got-GOD and let's see who WINS?
THE Battle, has just BEGUN:
http://www.all4webs.com/q/f/love4yahweh
February 17, 2009
9:32 p.m.
Suggest removal
seeker writes:
mikey, I prayed every morning at school and so did my parents because we went to Catholic school. That's right, Catholic school. Did you know that a Catholic and Morman family were the first to file a suit against the public school system for teaching the bible? That's right!! Christians did not want the public school teaching the bible to their kids. See we don't all interperet the bible in the same way. That's why there are so many denominations of Christians, mikey. So if you want to pray in school, do it privately, like I had to do when I went to college or enroll in a school of your religious choice. See, wasn't that easy? My parents were not rich and they managed to find the money to send 6 kids to Catholic grade school and high school. If you want it bad enough you can figure it out.
February 17, 2009
9:33 p.m.
Suggest removal
mytwosense writes:
HPM, I have no idea if www.recovery.gov will live up to its promise to provide transparency on this money, but I hope it does.
To my knowledge, the US government has never tracked a legislation's impact in this open of a manner. I think the premise, at least, is pretty cool. Too early to judge the actual delivery.
February 17, 2009
9:36 p.m.
Suggest removal
seeker writes:
mikey,
I come from a small farming community and guess what? There were homosexuals there in the 1930's and we all knew about it. They lived together and we didn't burn their house down or call them names. We accepted them and we didn't think they were evil or going to burn in hell. They were "different" and that was that. We also had a 2 headed snake and a blind calf. Oh and the lady who lived by the library was a lesbian but she was the only one so she lived alone.
February 17, 2009
9:42 p.m.
Suggest removal
seeker writes:
mikey,
Bin Laden is the guy that knocked down the twin towers in NY on 9/11. He was the guy we were supposed to get for killing all the innocent Americans that died that day. Remember? But our President got confused and sent us to Iraq where a lot of innocent people died. Women and children, mikey. Lots of them. He and his friends lied to us about Iraq's involvement in 9/11 so that's where we went. So now, we have to go to where Osama really was.....Afghanastan and Pakastan....he has to be caught and put on trial. He was and is a bad man.
February 17, 2009
9:53 p.m.
Suggest removal
seeker writes:
Cloning is science and as far as I know, no one in the government is trying to clone anyone. Maybe sheep or cows but not people. If you know something the rest of us don't know please share. I tend to think this is just another one of your head trips.
Affirmative Action gets chalked up to one of those pesky "because it's the right thing to do" things. People are basically racist by nature. If we left Civil Rights up to the people by vote we would all still be segregated. I worked for the Civil Rights Movement in the 60's and it wasn't pretty, mikey. Not pretty at all. Some people in the south just didn't want to be integrated. President Lynden Johnson had to send the National Guard down there and force them to let African Americans register in schools and even to vote. You should go to the library and check a book out on it. It was history. They also wouldn't give jobs to black people. So laws had to be made. Even today, we have trouble with people who are racists. Hard to believe but there are some that blog on this newspaper site. Hmmmmm. So, the Christian thing to do is make sure they are treated fairly. That's what affirmative action is mikey.
This IS America. Get used to it buddy. We are the United States.
February 17, 2009
10:09 p.m.
Suggest removal
Who_Me writes:
One of the local speakers (some energy company) on stage and speaking, he's with the president, vice-president, and governor, and the best he can come up with is a pull-over sweater and a button-down shirt?
February 17, 2009
10:15 p.m.
Suggest removal
johnson writes:
Mikey has gotten what he wants, recognition. Let's just all not respond to any of his inane posts. Ok? Deal? OK.
February 17, 2009
10:17 p.m.
Suggest removal
F1RST writes:
401k at zero, house worthless, food bills skyrocketing, gas not going down and i lost my job. The good thing is....It can only go up. Thanks Obama.
February 17, 2009
10:34 p.m.
Suggest removal
squeakywheel writes:
I consider myself an independent. I tried to be a liberal but I found I wasn't happy with that, then I tried to be a conservative, still dissatisfied.
But I find the liberals most repugnant. Just read the pathetic posts here and any open-minded person would see that liberals just refuse to grow up.
February 17, 2009
11:06 p.m.
Suggest removal
MrYeahBut writes:
F1RST,
I'm not sure if you're implying that any of those things are Obama's fault; however, if you are you need to give your brain a kick because it has stopped working. He's been in office for a month.
squeakywheel,
Your post is just plain stupid.
February 17, 2009
11:18 p.m.
Suggest removal
MrYeahBut writes:
I'm not biased; however, it's clear to me that squeakywheel is the most dishonest and loathsome person here. I'd be surprised if he graduated from high school. I'm impressed he has figured out how to use a computer with his obviously diminished intellect.
February 17, 2009
11:22 p.m.
Suggest removal
ManginoTorreta writes:
"why can't we just for one friggin day get united and project a positive force of American will power and accomplishment?"
Because the hallmark of American culture is the fact that we get to disagree and argue with each other, all day, every day. It's been that way since the country was first founded, and a mere six years ago, the same people arguing today for "unity" were screaming that "dissent is patriotic!" I guess they lost that sentiment the minute Dear Leader took power and started throwing money down the hole on projects they wanted as opposed to projects they don't.
If you want "unity," North Korea and Cuba will be happy to have you.
"The only way America loses is if you keep up with the doom and gloom talk. Honestly, let's get a positive attitude going and keep our country going!"
In other words, 'shut up and stop disagreeing with me, it hurts my feelings.' And you scolding the critics about "doom and gloom" talk is particularly rich considering that the President himself spent last week crying that the sky was going to come down if this bill wasn't passed RIGHT AWAY, only to spend the weekend lazing around in Chicago instead of signing an bill that was supposedly so important the nation's economic life depended on its passing.
"What good can it possibly do to talk down our efforts to make things better? It's totally unpatriotic.....you who keep up this failure attitude are not helping our country."
No, what's not helping this country is thieves like you and every other left-wing nabob that's commented here who is getting the government to rob me because you are too gutless to do so yourself.
"So now, we have to go to where Osama really was.....Afghanastan and Pakastan....he has to be caught and put on trial. He was and is a bad man."
You better pray to whatever gods you have that Obama will be able to pay a bigger bribe to Kyrgyzstan than the Russians did, because the war in Afghanistan is going to get a lot more difficult and a lot more expensive once Manas closes down. Of course, with morons like Feinstein flapping their jaws about operations there, that was bound to happen anyway.
February 17, 2009
11:32 p.m.
Suggest removal
JayRoy writes:
How much money was wasted on all this pomp and circumstance?
February 17, 2009
11:40 p.m.
Suggest removal
MrYeahBut writes:
By the way PrincessMichelle,
That link you provided may be the most inaccurate and misleading site I have seen in along time.
It begins,
" Upon, the Truth and Spirit of Supreme God,
our Founding Fathers laid creation to The United
States of America. A nation, divinely inspired
and thus, without question, established under
Christian-Judeo Principles."
Really? Allow me to quote a few of our country's founders and great thinkers,
"Lighthouses are more useful than churches" -Benjamin Franklin
"This would be the best of all possible worlds if there were no religion it it" - John Adams
"Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man." -Thomas Jefferson
I hate to break it to you but your website and your religion are lies.
February 17, 2009
11:49 p.m.
Suggest removal
JayRoy writes:
It doesn't take a college degree to see the mistake of trying to solve a problem that was caused by excessive debt, by piling on a bunch more debt. Debt upon debt, huge deficit spending by Nancy Pelosi's Liberal Christmas Tree (AKA "Stimulus") package.
Some good sense is all it takes to understand the obvious: For each $1.00 spent, $1.00 will have to be taken away from somebody (our children and grandchildren) to pay for it.
The Big rush by Obama and congress to "do something" is a lot of foolishness. We are paying them the Big Bucks to do it RIGHT; rather than to hurry and do "something".
February 18, 2009
12:05 a.m.
Suggest removal
slocatch writes:
I am still trying to figure this out, I quess it's not so bad, at least we get to spend some of it here, it usually goes foreign. And another way to look at it is that the kids of the illegals will have to pay for it.
February 18, 2009
12:05 a.m.
Suggest removal
MrYeahBut writes:
JayRoy writes:
"For each $1.00 spent, $1.00 will have to be taken away from somebody"
That might be true if there was a fixed amount of money; however, the government has the ability to print money. It is important to remember that money has no intrinsic value. This is obvious in third world economies where the local currency is frequently deemed relatively worthless. What we are dealing with is consumer confidence. The stimulus is intended to promote economic growth and job creation/sustenance in an effort to restore confidence in the American economy and get people and businesses spending again. That money does not have to be taken from anyone; however, we do risk the devaluation of the money people already have via inflation.
February 18, 2009
12:10 a.m.
Suggest removal
MrYeahBut writes:
JayRoy,
Additionally, much of the bill actually included tax cuts to businesses and individuals in an attempt to restore their ability to spend. Many people will retain more of their money as a result of the stimulus package.
February 18, 2009
12:17 a.m.
Suggest removal
JayRoy writes:
MrYeahBut writes:
"however, we do risk the devaluation of the money people already have via inflation."
Yeah, No Kidding.
I agree with Mr. Common Sense McCain: this is generational theft.
February 18, 2009
12:22 a.m.
Suggest removal
MrYeahBut writes:
Also, there are a lot of misconception regarding the notion of national debt. National debt is a somewhat arbitrary figure that isn't always helpful in analyzing our financial situation as a nation. Much of the money is not actually 'owed' to anybody. It's not like if you took a loan from the bank and were then responsible for the repayment of that amount plus interest. Like most things related to government, national debt figures are much more convoluted than one might think. All in all, they are not particularly useful for most discussions related to the financial health of a country.
February 18, 2009
12:27 a.m.
Suggest removal
JayRoy writes:
I think MrYeahBut's way of thinking is what got us in this mess.
February 18, 2009
12:44 a.m.
Suggest removal
MrYeahBut writes:
It's not my way of thinking. It's just how things are. I have studied economics extensively and, like many things, have learned that the more you know the more you realize you can't begin comprehend. These are extremely complex issues that even professional economist frequently can't agree on. I think it's these incredible complexities that leads to the disillusionment of many Americans. Modern economies are virtually impossible to fully understand. Right now our leaders have apparently determined that restoring confidence and job creation/sustenance is more important than controlling for inflation. Therefore, they are taking the steps they believe (hope?) will achieve those goals. In a few years (or months) they may take the opposite approach. I don't claim to have all the answers, but I do try to understand the rational behind these decisions. Out of curiosity, which part of 'my thinking' do you disagree with?
February 18, 2009
1:54 a.m.
Suggest removal
JayRoy writes:
"Extremely complex issues" is the favorite B.S. phrase of the elitist left. I know smoke and mirrors when I smell it. It's implication is that we are too dumb to know what's best for us, and so we have to trust the masters to take control of things.
If the government prints a lot of money, and thereby causes mass inflation, then all the benefit of a tax cut will just be nullified.
Sure, the government has the ability to print money, but, as President Reagan said, the government has never produced a single barrell of oil, bushel of wheat, or lump of coal.
This spending bill is ridiculous. It's smoke and mirrors, and a Christmas Tree for leftist causes. And I feel it's heading this country in the dangerous direction of bigger, domninant government.
February 18, 2009
7:01 a.m.
Suggest removal
GK writes:
Make those Republicans squirm. I love it!
February 18, 2009
7:49 a.m.
Suggest removal
MrYeahBut writes:
JayRoy,
I'm not sure what your point is. Are you suggesting that economics is not "extremely complex"? Your point about inflation was already acknowledged by me in a previous post. It seems you just want your point to be that liberals are liars and crooks. I think that type of partisan rhetoric is what "has got us into this mess". Instead of uniting to stand up for common concerns and issues, of which I assure you there are plenty, much of the American population seems content to continue to argue amongst themselves. This 'divide and conquer' philosophy is what allows the lobbyist, private interests, and large 'donors' to continue to establish policy without worrying the public's scorn will be turned towards them. I would suggest that your time and concerns would be much better invested worrying about the private interests that are firmly entrenched in both political parties and the political system in general than it is worrying about liberals trying to pull the wool over your eyes.
February 18, 2009
8 a.m.
Suggest removal
MrYeahBut writes:
After all, I seem to remember a very similar 'spending'/bailout package proposed by the Republicans and passed shortly before Bush left office. I wonder if that aroused a similiar amount of ire from you?
February 18, 2009
8:14 a.m.
Suggest removal
JayRoy writes:
That bailout package, passed by a Republican president and a Democratic congress, certainly did arouse similar ire from me. Don't even get me started. Selective government intervention of insurance companies, banks, and certain favored (unionized) industries? It's a perversion of the governments proper role.
February 18, 2009
9:24 a.m.
Suggest removal
HisPrinceMichael writes:
JayRoy writes "...Smoke and mirrors..."
Man, you've summed-up 1,200 or so pages, in three-words.
Four more? Sugar-high, catastrophic fall.
THE Battle, has just BEGUN:
http://www.all4webs.com/q/f/love4yahweh
February 18, 2009
9:37 a.m.
Suggest removal
MrYeahBut writes:
How does anyone figure this is smoke and mirrors. Ther is a website that provides complete transparancy and tracks how each dollar of this bill is spent and will track the bills success over the long haul (http://www.recovery.gov/). This is unprecedented level of transparancy and openness regarding government fiscal activity. Some of you just want Obama to fail so badly to satisfy your own ideology (i.e. ego) that you are willing ignore reality. Mikey, I don't think you ever worried about reality to begin with.
February 18, 2009
9:40 a.m.
Suggest removal
Superstar writes:
What's really sad is that we are bailing people out with billions of borrowed money. What people don't seem to get is that they need to make better choices in life. If you don't have the money for something, like buying a house, then you don't buy it. It's crap that our future generations will be paying this thing off for many years all to bail out people who won't have to suffer consequences for their bad decisions. What a crock!
February 18, 2009
9:46 a.m.
Suggest removal
MrYeahBut writes:
Superstar,
I agree that it's unfortunate that we have to bear the responsibility for poor decision making by both lenders and borrowers. However, if we don't do anything the results could be truly catastrophic. I don't think anybody is happy that we've found ourselves in this situation (although many of the lenders have probably had a good chuckle that they were able to handsomely profit from loans that carried virtually no financial risk to them and, thus, no incentive to properly ensure the borrowers ability to repay the loan).
February 18, 2009
10:04 a.m.
Suggest removal
LockNLoad writes:
MrYeahBut:
So what exactly will be the catastrophy? Foreclosed borrows will have to rent instead of buying a home. This is not such a bad thing.
Congress, Freddie Mac, Fannie Mae, and ACORN have caused this to happen by insisting that lenders loan money to unqualified borrowers.
This is what happens when the government gets involved in the private sector. This is true socialism at its best.
February 18, 2009
10:16 a.m.
Suggest removal
HisPrinceMichael writes:
Mryeahbutt, First-off son, it's Prince MICHAEL to you.
Reality? Part of the reality is, MILLIONS of tax-payers
dollars to "protect" a field mouse. This, is a microcosm
of YOUR Pharaohs Stimulus aka The Final Barrel O' Pork.
THE Battle, has just BEGUN:
http://www.all4webs.com/q/f/love4yahweh
February 18, 2009
10:31 a.m.
Suggest removal
MrYeahBut writes:
LockNLoad,
First of all...it's time to stop with the 'Socialist' crap. That is outdated Cold War rhetoric (Capitalism=good guys; Socialism/Communism=bad guys) that does nothing to help us understand our current economic situation. As I have previously stated, the US has not had a true 'laissez-faire' Capitalist economy since the late 1800's (if even then) and that was a disaster for the vast majority of the country. Since then we have operated off of a Capitalist/Socialist hybrid economy that attempts to incorporate the best aspects of both economic systems. Virtually all modernized economies are a hybrid that utilizes the various components of these two economic theories to varying degrees. We have all benefited from 'Socialist' aspects of our economy.
Second, Freddie Mac, Fannie Mae, and ACORN are only small parts of a massive problem. I would argue that the selling of debt and the securitization of mortgages are the principle causes of the current crises. These two practices removed the incentive for lenders to make sound lending decisions as they beared no financial responsibility for making loans that were likely to default. It placed the financial risk on unwitting investors in these 'pools of debt' and securities.
Third, I shouldn't have to explain that the implications of over nine million people losing their homes is somewhat more severe than they "will have to rent instead of buying a home". Obviously the implications of that could fill a very long book. However, if we don't stem the tide of forclosures, real estate prices will continue to plummet. Furthermore, with over nine million people potentially hitting the rental market the price of rentals will skyrocket. Many will likely not be able to afford the price of rentals and homelessness will see a dramatic spike. Thus, many of those people will end up being a drain on the economy in one way or another. Also, the real estate market is closely related to consumer confidence and intimately effects all aspects of the ecomony. We are currently in a downward spiral effect and this is an attempt to change the momentum of the economy as a whole. It is not inconceivable that all American assets, from homes to investments (retirement accounts) could become virtually worthless if action is not taken. It is probable that people that are able to keep their homes will owe hundreds of thousands of dollars on a home that is worth only a fraction of that. The implications of that are too far reaching to even begin to articulate in a RMN post.
February 18, 2009
10:56 a.m.
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MrYeahBut writes:
By the way Mikey,
Did you realize that your fairy tale about the almighty Jebus is directly plagiarized from 'The Egyption Book of the Dead's' story about a god named Horus, who predated Jebus by about 1280 years.
Here is the story of Horus: 1. He was baptized in a river; 2. He spent time alone in the desert and was tempted by evil spirits; 3. He healed the sick, the blind, and cast out demons; 4. He walked on water; 5. He raised people from the dead; 6. He had twelve disciples; 6. He was crucified; 7. After his death he was proclaimed to be humanity's savior by two women; 8. He was resurrected.
Also, much in the Bible is taken from prevalent religious stories of the time. For example, the Indian god Krishna, 1,000 years before Jebus, was a carpenter, born of a virgin, and baptized in a river. Also, the Persian God Mithra, who predated Jebus by 600 years, was born December 25th, performed miracles, resurrected on the third day, and was refered to as 'the savior' and 'the messiah'.
But I'm sure your Jebus story is 100% true and all these similarities are merely a coincidence. It's not like religion was invented by man to subdue and control people through fear and ignorance after all. Right?
(much of the above material was quoted or paraphrased from the movie 'Religulous').
February 18, 2009
11:36 a.m.
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rickg19611 writes:
MrYeahBut writes:
"much of the above material was quoted or paraphrased from the movie 'Religulous'"
Rule # 1 for Intellectual Credibility - Anyone who relies on movies to support their opinions, are likely to have the IQ of the average actor. Somewhere between 8 and 16.
February 18, 2009
12:04 p.m.
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MrYeahBut writes:
rick,
Really? It's a documentary that has been factchecked and debated by virtually anybody that it has offended (which was virtually everybody). I have read many of the factchecking sites and many have disputed much of the information that is in that documentary. However, I have not found one that disputed the parts that I quoted.
I really don't see how quoting a documentary is a reflection on IQ. However, insulting somebody's IQ is a reflection of your relative intelligence. The concept of an "Intelligence Quotient", and how someone might fairly assess an IQ, has been one of the most ridiculed and scrutinized concepts in modern psychology. To say the least, it is a dubious statistic at best. I have taken IQ tests as a prerequisite to membership in certain organizations and have scored extremely well; however, I don't lend IQ tests much credibility.
February 18, 2009
12:36 p.m.
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rickg19611 writes:
MrYeahBut....
In response to this statement, "For each $1.00 spent, $1.00 will have to be taken away from somebody", you claimed “That might be true if there was a fixed amount of money; however, the government has the ability to print money. “
You fail to recognize several errors in your theory. The act of “printing” money, or more accurately, increasing the money supply, does have a cost that everyone has to pay. It decreases the value of the existing currency through inflation. Inflation is a cost to everyone. That dollar being spent by government will be repaid by someone else… either through higher taxes, repayments of debt, or devaluation of the dollar through increases in the money supply (or “printing” money as you like to say)
“National debt is a somewhat arbitrary figure that isn't always helpful in analyzing our financial situation as a nation.”
Incorrect. National debt has a tremendous effect on the financial “situation” of a nation. The level of national debt has effects across a wide range of economic factors that influence future GDP growth, exchange rates, trade balances, interest rates, and price indexes. The level of national debt influences the level of gross private investment, which has been proven over the last century to be the primary determinant of changes in the rate of GDP growth. All of these items affect the average American. A simple review of the level of national debt, and the rates of change in the level of national debt, will show an direct correlation with economic conditions that affect the daily lives of each American.
“I have studied economics extensively and, like many things, have learned that the more you know the more you realize you can't begin comprehend.”
Studied how? Where? While economics is complex, that does not mean that is it incomprehensible. You just need the proper foundation of knowledge of economic concepts to understand the "parts" that seem difficult to the layman.
“Freddie Mac, Fannie Mae, and ACORN are only small parts of a massive problem.”
Freddie and Fannie are “small parts” of the problem? Do you know that as of 2008, these two organizations were involved in 51% of the total US mortgage market? They were the LARGEST players in the mortgage market, with the thousands of other private institutions making up the remaining 49% seem like bit players.
“the real estate market is closely related to consumer confidence and intimately effects all aspects of the ecomony.”
So why do you support a stimulus bill that has less than 2% of it’s contents addressing the “real estate” market?
February 18, 2009
1:57 p.m.
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MrYeahBut writes:
rick,
1. I acknowledged twice that 'increasing the money supply' can lead to inflation. In fact, if you had just continued the paragraph that you quoted I wrote, "That money does not have to be taken from anyone; however, we do risk the devaluation of the money people already have via inflation." So...I really don't see how inflation is "an error in my theory".
2. I did not say that the national debt has no "effect on the financial “situation” of a nation." I said, it "isn't always helpful in analyzing our financial situation as a nation." That is true. The national debt figures are far too convoluted to be meaningful in most discussions releated to the financial well being of a country. For example, nearly half of the national debt is held by the government. In other words, government accounts own nearly half of the debt instruments (bonds, bills, notes, etc.) that have been issued. Therefore, the government essentially owes this money to itself. This is just one of many reasons that national debt figures are not particularly easy to understand and, therefore, not particularly useful in lay discussions regarding the economic health of our country.
3. Economics is an extraordinarily complicated topic. So much so that people who have spent there entire lives studying it can reach radically different conclusions about the nature of it. If you have managed to fully grasp the global economy then I suggest you write a book immediately. You will be very rich (although many people will still disagree with you). In other words, you are ridiculously arrogant to actually think that you completely understand the modern economy.
4. This topic is a novel in itself. I stick by my original statement. Again, I think you are oversimplifying an extraordinarily complex issue.
5. Because there is an entirely different package intended to address the mortgage crisis.
February 18, 2009
2:15 p.m.
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MrYeahBut writes:
I realize my fourth answer was something of a cop out; however, I just don't have the time or energy to get into it. I'd be surprised if Fannie and Freddie were only involved in half of the mortgages due how they interact with private lenders. But saying that because they are "involved" with the mortgages then they must be responsible for the current crisis is like saying half the time somebody dies there is oxygen in the air...therefore, oxygen is responsible for half the deaths.
February 18, 2009
4:30 p.m.
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rickg19611 writes:
MrYeahBut writes:
"1. I acknowledged twice that 'increasing the money supply' can lead to inflation. … So...I really don't see how inflation is "an error in my theory"."
The error is that your admission about inflation refutes your initial response that it is not "true" that "For each $1.00 spent, $1.00 will have to be taken away from somebody".
Increasing the money supply to deal with excessive debt levels causes inflation. Inflation is a cost that all consumers incur. So you are forcing the costs for excessive spending (and resulting debt) onto all consumers by devaluation of the currency.
"2. I did not say that the national debt has no "effect on the financial “situation” of a nation." I said, it "isn't always helpful in analyzing our financial situation as a nation." …...""
Actually, national debt (both government and private) is one of the simplest of economic topics. In fact, that is why it's one topics covered in macroeconomics textbooks used at the freshman level.
"3. Economics is an extraordinarily complicated topic. …. "
They don't reach different conclusions because of the complexity of it. They reach different conclusions because of the limitation in being able to conduct controlled experiments to test theories.
That doesn't make it complex. It just makes it difficult to test alternative theories to determine the optimal outcome of policy decisions.
"If you have managed to fully grasp the global economy then I suggest you write a book immediately. You will be very rich (although many people will still disagree with you). In other words, you are ridiculously arrogant to actually think that you completely understand the modern economy."
There is a huge difference between saying that something is complex... and then claiming that it's complexity means that one cannot "comprehend" it.
A surgeon will say that a specific surgical technique may be complex. But that does not mean the surgeon doesn't understand it.
Complexity and comprehension are not mutually exclusive.
"4. This topic is a novel in itself. I stick by my original statement. Again, I think you are oversimplifying an extraordinarily complex issue."
Not at all. When you break down any business cycle, you will find the clues to what caused it, and what changed. There are some basic, historically proven facts that always hold true.... i.e. increased supply without a change in demand will result in decreased price, assuming all other factors are held constant.
"5. Because there is an entirely different package intended to address the mortgage crisis."
Even factoring the other package in, it still amounts to less than 40% of the total amount being spent.
February 18, 2009
4:37 p.m.
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rickg19611 writes:
MrYeahBut writes:
" I'd be surprised if Fannie and Freddie were only involved in half of the mortgages due how they interact with private lenders. But saying that because they are "involved" with the mortgages then they must be responsible for the current crisis is like saying half the time somebody dies there is oxygen in the air...therefore, oxygen is responsible for half the deaths."
There are two primary reasons that Freddie and Fannie played one of the largest roles in the mortgage meltdown...
Their government mandated mission to encourage low income home ownership, and their loan guarantees that encouraged private lenders to take on riskier loans than they might otherwise have done.
Fannie and Freddie were the key drivers behind the subprime lending explosion that started in the mid 90s and continued on for the past 12-14 years. They encouraged private lenders to take on subprime borrowers, through their own lending practices and their through guarantee programs.
They were not alone. They had willing participants. But considering the size and influence they had in the marketplace, they were like the adult drunks that kept a continuous supply of beer flowing to a junior high school party. And then later when the cops showed up, they claimed to be surprised that anyone was consuming alcohol at their party.
February 18, 2009
6:32 p.m.
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MrYeahBut writes:
1. That's what I said.
2. and how many people posting on RMN do you thing have read textbooks on macroeconomics?
3. huh?
4. This isn't about 'business cycles'...it's about rampant corruption, lack of regulations, and uneducated consumers.
5. Okay.
Bonus question: You must listen to Rush.
February 18, 2009
7:14 p.m.
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jay writes:
yet another day of watching rickybobby do the willful ignorance dance.
pathetic if not entertaining.
February 18, 2009
8:14 p.m.
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MrYeahBut writes:
rick,
I think that you might be failing to distinguish between your opinions and fact. I believe that you completely understand your opinions and theories on economics...I don't believe that you completely understand economics itself.
I have many 'theories' on how certain aspects of the economy function; however, I also understand that they are inevitably incomplete or not fully comprehensive. In other words, it goes back to the Platonic notion of the perfection of an idea versus it's inevitably imperfect temporal manifestation. I can understand the theory/ideas of economics. It is how those ideas operate in the real world, interacting with a virtually infinite number of variables, that the infinite complexity comes in.
February 19, 2009
2:02 a.m.
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Cipher09 writes:
It all goes to say that you can't please everyone. Unless, of course, Obama gives everyone a monetary portion of what's left of the bailout money Bush has set up, and not having us - the taxpayers, and our children, and our children's children - pay it back.
Aaaaahhh... America.