New energy on center stage when Obama signs stimulus in Denver
By Kevin Vaughan, Rocky Mountain News (Contact)
Published February 16, 2009 at 8:29 p.m.
Updated February 17, 2009 at 10:37 a.m.
Photo by Laressa Bachelor, The Rocky
Secret Service officials discuss preparations for Obama's visit during a walk-through at 5:30 a.m. at the Denver Museum of Nature & Science.
Photo by Ron Sachs©Pool via Bloomberg News
President Barack Obama waves to his family as he returns to the South Lawn of the White House aboard Marine 1 in Washington, D.C., on Monday. Photographer: Ron Sachs/Pool via Bloomberg News Notes:
Old politics meets new energy today when President Barack Obama signs a $787 billion economic stimulus bill in Denver.
Vice President Joe Biden and a who's who of Colorado Democrats are expected at the ceremony at the Denver Museum of Nature & Science — but most of them likely won't be on the stage with Obama as he signs the first significant piece of legislation of his presidency.
Instead, men and women who have worked in solar, wind and other forms of renewable energy are expected to be front and center.
"They are not going to have lawmakers on the stage," said Tara Trujillo of U.S. Sen. Mark Udall's office.
Instead, the focus will turn to those who will be at the forefront of the stimulus legislation, including leaders of companies driving what Gov. Bill Ritter has dubbed a "new energy economy."
Udall, for the record, will not attend — he had a prior family commitment, Trujillo said. But Sen. Michael Bennet and U.S. Reps. Diana DeGette, Jared Polis, Betsy Markey and Ed Perlmutter are all expected to join Ritter, Lt. Gov. Barbara O'Brien and other Democratic office-holders at the ceremony. Among the state lawmakers expected at the signing are House Speaker Terrance Carroll, Senate President Peter Groff and Sen. Chris Romer.
The choice of the museum is symbolic — an array of solar panels was installed on its roof last June that today are providing from 3 to 5 percent of the building's power.
Ted Ramsey is director of energy services at Hybrid Energy Group, the company that arranged financing for the museum's solar array.
Ramsey, who plans to attend the signing ceremony, has high hopes for the stimulus package because it extends, for several years, a series of tax credits for solar investments. He hopes to see dozens more projects like the one at the Museum of Nature & Science across the state.
"This project has been a real success," Ramsey said. "We're grateful we have legislation that will help us get farther down this road."
The event, which is by invitation only, is expected to draw about 250 people.
Exact details — such as Obama's arrival time — were not released by the White House on Monday.
But it was apparent that he chose Denver in part to highlight efforts made in recent years to develop Earth-friendly energy in a way that also drives economic growth. And it appeared that Obama planned to make an example of the ways the stimulus plan, which passed with almost no Republican support, would affect real people and real companies.
Take Vestas, the world's largest wind turbine maker.
The company will have a representative at today's bill signing.
Just last week, the company's leaders spoke of the danger of scaling back operations in the wake of the deepening recession.
The stimulus bill, backers believe, may help stop the skid by offering tax incentives for renewable energy development.
Matthew Caryofilles, the owner of SALT Electric in Denver, will be another of the representatives of local renewable energy companies at the bill signing.
SALT did the wiring on the museum's solar panels as well as similar projects at the governor's mansion and the Pepsi Center. But the past few months have seen a slowdown, and the company has had to tighten its belt, Caryofilles said.
Once the stimulus bill is signed, he predicts several projects that have been "percolating" will finally get under way. Work could begin on some of them by the end of March, he said.
"We can actually grow again," he said.
More than that, Caryofilles said he's happy the stimulus package will allow the country to move forward with new sources of energy and a focus on conservation. In addition to tax credits for renewable energy facilities, the legislation also includes billions of dollars for grants to increase energy efficiency and to encourage scientific research.
"Whenever the public has been asked where they want their energy to come from, particularly in Colorado, they've always said they want it to come from somewhere else than where it's currently coming from," he said. "It's what we've wanted."
But the stimulus bill is not without its detractors. Not a single Republican voted for it in the U.S. House, and only three of the Senate's GOP members supported it.
While Obama is at the museum, Jon Caldara of the free-market Independence Institute, U.S. Rep. Mike Coffman, writer Michelle Malkin and former Congressman Bob Beauprez plan to voice their opposition to the measure on the west steps of the state Capitol.
Staff writers Jerd Smith and Sara Burnett contributed to this report.
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February 16, 2009
8:57 p.m.
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leavemealone writes:
"an array of solar panels was installed on its roof last June that today are providing from 3 to 5 percent of the building's power"
holy crap....3 to 5 percent of the buildings power.
Lets spend $10 to save .32 cents...oh wait, after maintenance we spent $10 to just spend another $1.50 so actually a net loss of $11.18.
February 16, 2009
9:13 p.m.
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brentmeister writes:
If only we could harness the energy from the lies, deception, and tyranny.
February 16, 2009
9:22 p.m.
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bobdylanindenver writes:
Obama is making George Bush look good.
Obama has already failed the American people by an unprecedented growth of government, government control, and reduced media visibility.
Obama has already begun to drive the country straight into the ground.
As a small business owner, Obama is a nightmare. Tax…tax…tax…spend…spend…spend.
I wasn’t a fan of G.W, but anybody would pretty much be better than Obama.
Obama’s attacking out way of life, our economy, it’s like we lost the war on terrorism and have begun to be occupied by radical Muslim fascists.
http://la.indymedia.org/news/2008/11/...
February 16, 2009
9:28 p.m.
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Who_Me writes:
This article was written referencing "today" a day before it even happened. Not only do we get special energy-related mojo with the messiah, we get precognition from the RMN.
February 16, 2009
9:31 p.m.
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Who_Me writes:
As written/posted as of 9:29pm 2/16, since the web editors like to change stories without acknowledging errors/gaffes/etc. Like one of the reports about the downed commuter aircraft with a byline of BOGOTA, Columbia instead of Buffalo, NY. Whatever.
"Old politics meets new energy today when President Barack Obama signs a $787 billion economic stimulus bill in Denver."
February 16, 2009
10:20 p.m.
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Shadow writes:
I just would like to say to Mr. Obama. That I am impressed. That not only can he sit there and sign this pork, but that he can walk. He has got to be in the Guinuess book of records for having the largest brass cajones of any man ever. The lies on how important this pork is, is amazing.
I just would like to also thank Mr. Obama for helping me set my goals. I am now an additional $4000.00 a year minimum in the hole. But not to worry.I will not be asking for a bailout, why?
Simple I am NOT A CITIZEN OF THE WORLD, RATHER I AM AN AMERICAN MALE. I HAVE FAITH IN GOD AND THE CONSTITUTION BEFORE THE LIBERALS GET TO IT. I HAVE FAITH IN MYSELF AND THE BLOOD SWEAT AND TEARS I PUT INTO WHAT EVER IT TAKES TO MAKE A LIVING.
I do not need to steel from others to do this Mr. Obama. I have principles and a work ethic. So go ahead and punish me for trying to achieve and better myself and family. It is ok, I am an AMERICAN, and it is America that in the last 200 plus years has carried the world on its shoulders.
So go ahead and raise the heat in the White House, fly across the country for photo ops ( DON'T FORGET KENTUCKY. THEY ARE STILL SUFFERING TOO. NOT JUST NEW ORLEANS YOU KNOW). Its alright, I am an American and I will PERCIVERE.
February 16, 2009
10:40 p.m.
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capitol_hill_conservative writes:
There will be an anti-stimulus rally at the Capitol Tuesday at noon. Please come and voice your opposition to this legalized theft.
February 16, 2009
10:49 p.m.
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freemarketworks writes:
Nuclear power? Without the discussion of nuclear and hydro-electric power in the equation, this is nothing but a waste of money and a joke! With nuclear power, we could be exporting power to all of North, Central and South America for a huge profit...
February 16, 2009
11:05 p.m.
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FCZ writes:
No less an authority than FDR's Treasury secretary and close friend, Henry Morganthau, conceded this fact to Congressional Democrats in May 1939: "We have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work.
after eight years of this Administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started ...
And an enormous debt to boot!
February 16, 2009
11:51 p.m.
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Good2Go5280 writes:
We're so screwed.
February 17, 2009
midnight
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windskull writes:
www.tristategt.com see what YOUR party pig Cheney has been pulling for years under those turned up noses...26 sites generating electricity from diesel, coal , natural gas NOPE so sorry the hydro plant in Craig too clean for the dickmeister it was mothballed where is all this juice going, well as it traverses the lines long ago paid for rural customers get to pay $0.08 to $0.20 cents a kw as it is routed up to Wyoming where they turn around and sell it WHOLESALE for $0.04 a kw you imbecilic morons have ABSOLUTELY NO ROOM TO TALK ABOUT THEFT as I said in another post President Obama has by democratic process been ELECTED by overwhelming MAJORITY get a grip and deal with this fact or go down to Mexico and surf with Jesse Ventura but quit b!tching
February 17, 2009
3:42 a.m.
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LOUIE writes:
I applaud the going green effort, yet for most Americans consumers it's still extremely expensive without federal financial assistance. However, global warming and weather cycles are relatively outside man's control. The patterns from the ice age to the industrial age have been spectacularly drastic fluctuations. Global warming is a great sales pitch, but man influence although noticable, is not the over all reason for the earth's cyclic nature. Volcanic activity, planetary influences, many things effect the earth's cycles including man. If all industry ceased tomorrow worldwide, all power stations, and petrolieum products ceased being used, I believe the cycle will continue for thousands of years. Some believe mother nature has a means to even place man's numbers as the dominate species in check and man remains quite powerless to stop it. Truth be, as much as this conflicts with my love of the Creator, there are to many people on the earth, we have reached near capacity in relation to resources. We are not only building and encroaching upon wildlife and killing them off as the conflict with our advancement, even the very basic staples of life are also becoming finite in the global picture of of numbers. Although I again applaud the enviromentalist for his astute ability to note the changes, his ability to influence the natural cycles of the earth are extremely limited and still remain quite costly. Even if all his concerns were met today, the cycle will still go forward for centuries. Thus these actions today will take centuries to pay a dividend even if the enviromentalist is right. He is as much guessing as his opponent in this debate. One thing is for sure, the earth is changing. I can't wait for the magnetic fields to flip poles; nothing like a little unblocked solar wind to peel back the lips and sand the teeth. So many other things in nature are working to check man's numbers, global warming is such a small part of the grand design on nature concerning man and his ability to multiply unabated. Is the fight an effort in futility? GREENLEAF always puts up a good lick of sense in this area; I always enjoyed reading his posts on enviromental issues. We've went from fears of global cooling to global warming, ice age to industrial, and many things in nature have steadfstly evolved as our knowledge increased. How long ago in our history did we figure out the planetary rotation of the earth around the sun? Not long ago in man's history. Today we have even greater knowledfe of nature thanks to our scientific advancements. This doesn't translate to having the answer however. There is much more to be unlocked before anyone can say with certainty how the earth goes through her cycles. Ever ice sample in core drillings have been a real insight to the earths climate, gases, and existance throughout it's history. Compared to history, our current climate is quite compatiable to the human species reproducing unchecked.
February 17, 2009
3:55 a.m.
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LOUIE writes:
At one time, 3/4 of the earth was barren ice; mother nature checked all species; yet like the forest that regenerates after the fire, look at how far the species have now evolved. It's time folks, nature cures her own cancer, and rebirths life in cycles. As the dominate species, it hard to accept that we are rolling a rock uphill for all etenity trying to outwit or unlock natures vast secrets.
February 17, 2009
5:06 a.m.
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LOUIE writes:
Mr. Obama? $hit just fell on the shoulders of a kid, America had better pray God guides this man's hand, as he now leads the most powerful nation on earth, at present time in history...win or lose, he's on the A list when America talks to God!
February 17, 2009
6:14 a.m.
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SanctuaryCity writes:
The country will collapse on the signing of this spending. Goodbye to the future.
Tell pelosi that I'm buying more mouse traps
February 17, 2009
6:29 a.m.
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Nunya writes:
Windskull says: "President Obama has by democratic process been ELECTED by overwhelming MAJORITY" I was not aware that 53% was an "overwhelming MAJORITY," I thought it was a majority, but not "overwhelming" I guess 52% is a "narrow margin" (the media said Bush was elected by a narrow margin when he got 52% of the popular vote) and 53% is overwhelming... thanks for setting us straight windskull. I feel so much more enlightened.
Obama's plan will do nothing except build huge government, give money out to those he decides need it... ACORN for example, and do nothing to help the economy nor this once great Country. Inflation like we have not seen since the mid seventies, huge government that wastes tax payer money and does little other than sit around wringing their hands and saying "oh my...oh my..." this will be the result of this stimulus plan, nothing more, nothing less.
February 17, 2009
6:45 a.m.
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greenleaf writes:
Very thoughtful Louie, very thoughtful indeed. I especially like your realistic assessment of where we stand with Global Warming. The debate seems to be moving into new territory which largely agrees with what you are saying. Many climate scientists now believe that ongoing change is inevitable regardless of what we do. Were we to stop contributing industrial CO2 now, they think the earth will continue to warm over the next hundred years or so. Of course they still believe that it will warm faster and to a greater degree if we don't reduce our emissions. Again, an excellent post Louie!
February 17, 2009
7:17 a.m.
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danirobi writes:
What does Obama know about energy? NOTHING! Oh and I thought that Stimulus bill was SOOO important that it needed to be passed and signed ASAP! Yeah right1
February 17, 2009
7:42 a.m.
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INC writes:
The louder the wacko right whines and cries... The better it must be for America.
February 17, 2009
7:46 a.m.
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ghoax writes:
just like they put people in houses they couldn't afford, the government is putting the people in debt they can't afford, nor will be able to pay with the inflated dollars.
787 Billion - 7.8 trillion in newly printed money= devalued dollar = inflation = hidden tax.
If they experts are the one's behind this, its time for new experts, probably the same crowd that promotes the global warming lie.
On top of that, wind and solar won't do what they say it will do. 10,000 windmills turning all at once produce the power of 1 coal powered plant. Do the math at 1 acre a windmill x 10000 x 600 coal powered plants. 6 miillion acres of "destroyed majestic beauty" (as the greens will say)
The answer is simple, expose the "man made CO2 destroying the planet" lie and get our energy resources. ANWR alone would provide 10% of our oil usage.
Sure put wind and solar in localized installations as supplemental sources, but put in nuclear, liquify coal, drill, and get off the "green addiction"
If this administration and the bumbleheads in Congress were serious about doing something to help the economy, they would trim themselves back and empower the people, not the government. Less government, less regulation, less taxation, a strong dollar= prosperity and jobs.
For those who can go out and build roads or bridges you might have some work, the rest need to take up liberal causes and try to get some of that grant money, perhaps to distribute condoms.
Half the country sold out for 400 bucks and the empty promise of hope and the deception about what change really meant. It's clear it meant a whole new form of government where the people have no say, only the Party.
February 17, 2009
8:06 a.m.
Suggest removal
Worked_the_World writes:
Re:Goodtogo5280 "We are so screwed". Yes, but here are some more thoughts.
First understand the government's goal. "Equality for all, liberty for none, everyone a slave to the government." Remember the golden rule - He who has the gold makes the rules.
"The economy" is really the sum of what millions of individual people do daily to live. They have a mind of their own separately and in groups. It is not some gigantic blob as usually described.
People (and companies and institutions) work to survive right along. When conditions change, they individually work our solutions and keep going. Same now. The recession will be managed by the creative people in the United States and other places. Pretty soon, the sum of their daily living decisions will regroup and begin to improve again.
Voila, the recession is ending by itself.
Today's government spending bill will slow this process markedly by taking productive resources and making them unproductive, but people will survive in spite of this. It just takes longer.
Here is the danger of today's bill being signed by the arrogant government.
(1) We will pay as we go by increasing inflation which takes value away from each of us,
(2) people's initiative will be diminished by giving them money with no effort,
(3) the government will siphon away a large part of the improved economic activity by new taxes which are hidden at this time,
(4) coalitions of other country's will form to counter the United States, so we do not have to actually decline, only improve more slowly than coalitions,
(5) credit for the self-improving economy will be given to today's bill and the bill's children, and more bills will be passed in the future that lowers a malaise over our future economy for years to come. The wrong cure is given credit for the wrong problem.
Sure the government will take credit. They in fact are clueless, but that is OK since they cannot really affect the future anyway.
We the people need to move into a person to person barter economy, off the books as much as possible. We have to take care of ourselves in spite of the government.
Thank you.
February 17, 2009
8:09 a.m.
Suggest removal
FCZ writes:
None of the tax payer's Congressional rep's read this POS before voting.
Biggest Pork bill ever.
And none even read it.
Change.
February 17, 2009
8:16 a.m.
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Beergut writes:
capitol_hill_conservative: Where were you when are money was going to White, Cheney and Rumsfield and their friends at the Pentagon. That was theft. Where were you went we loan money to Paulson's friends with no condition?. That was theft. This money is 1/3 tax breaks and going to such things as supporting your local government land providing food to the poor n these times of need. That is theft? You make my head spin, The right supports the rich will millions, but a dime spent on the starving is called theft.
February 17, 2009
8:16 a.m.
Suggest removal
Michael writes:
Does anyone remember (other than me?) that Jimmah Carter pulled this same solar energy routine with a visit about 30 odd years ago out at the then Solar Energy Research Institute (SERI) in Golden with a visit to a restaurant in Cherry Creek that had solar panels - Marlowes was the name???
Meet the new boss....same as the old boss.
February 17, 2009
8:17 a.m.
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GK writes:
Go Obama!
February 17, 2009
8:28 a.m.
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INC writes:
Michael,
yeah then Regan took them off of the WH. so now we are missing 35 years of data that could have been accumulated.
good or bad.
McSame would have been the same as the old bosses.
February 17, 2009
8:32 a.m.
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tao41 writes:
I laugh, I cry, I marvel, at the total inanity and self obsession of some of the contributors to this site. Their extemporaneous, and apparently, poorly considered rants seem to be the product of willingly accepting the comedian Rush Limbaugh's self important braying over the radio. How many of these rightist non-thinkers have actually read the stimulus bill, I have, and it appears to be a reasonable but underfunded response to an unprecedented economic crisis. We are ALL going to have to suffer through some lean years as a direct result of the failed policies and blunders of the past. I challenge everyone to read the entire stimulus bill prior to making comment. It is easily accessed, just type in "stimulus bill": on the search line of your computers.
February 17, 2009
8:32 a.m.
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davies writes:
You want an effective change to energy, environmental, economic and foreign policy? Raise the gas and diesel fuel tax by five cents a year, for five years.
Energy: Gradually discourages gas and diesel consumption, gradually encourages alternative and more efficient transportation choices. Detroit and car buyers can plan accordingly.
Environmental: Reducing fuel consumption reduces pollutants emitted, while the higher cost encourages cleaner energy sources.
Economic: A way to actually begin to raise the revenues to PAY for the economic stimulus and all the rest of Washington's spending.
Foreign: Reducing consumption in the USA (the world's largest energy user and importer) helps keep foreign oil prices down, which keeps the economic power of energy exporting countries (such as Russia, Saudi Arabia, Venezuela) in check.
February 17, 2009
8:49 a.m.
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Now_You_Know writes:
Cry neocons cry. The sky is falling. I love it...
February 17, 2009
8:50 a.m.
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Triumph writes:
INC
It is not only the Conservatives that are against this pork filled stimulus package. As an Independent voter I have heard both Republican and Democrats complaining about this pacakage. Polls such as the one on 9News and others around the country reflect this fact.
European and Japanese economic say it will do little to fix the economy or help the world economy as well.
February 17, 2009
8:51 a.m.
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Michael writes:
Also, was coming to Denver REALLY necessary to sign this bill? Especially with the underlying theme being better and more efficient energy use? What is the cost and carbon footprint for AF1, plus the support plane(s) that carry the limo and the Secret Service Team and equipment? Is Marine1 being brought too? I mean really, isn't it best to lead by example?
February 17, 2009
8:53 a.m.
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leavemealone writes:
Obama is 100% show & ZERO go!
February 17, 2009
8:56 a.m.
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LockNLoad writes:
This marks the end of American capitalism. We will officially be a socialist nannystate.
Government can't create jobs by growing government since government doesn't produce anything of value.
The economy would have reset itself in 6 - 8 months. Now, this spednulus package will delay that recovery. Some businesses shoud lhave goen into bankrupcy and restructured. They would have been better off for it, and it would have created an environment for new businesses to get into the game.
Comrade Nobama and the liberal Democrat elites are pushing a socialist Marxist agenda.
This will only help the GOP for future elections unless Nobama rig the process by leveraging ACORN, Moveon.org, and the environmental wackos to steal elections as they have done in the pass.
February 17, 2009
9:06 a.m.
Suggest removal
MBR693 writes:
INC writes:
"The louder the wacko right whines and cries... The better it must be for America."
If a president's success is measured by the outcry of his critics, then that would make George Bush the greatest president we've ever had.
davies writes:
"You want an effective change to energy, environmental, economic and foreign policy? Raise the gas and diesel fuel tax by five cents a year, for five years."
"Economic: A way to actually begin to raise the revenues to PAY for the economic stimulus and all the rest of Washington's spending."
So we should raise taxes so the government can spend money on programs that either do not stimulate the economy, or help subsidize industries that the free market would not support. In other words, give the government more control over our money, the economy isn't stimulated, energy prices will artificially inflate, there will be greater economic inefficiencies, but hey at least it makes us all feel good, right?
February 17, 2009
9:09 a.m.
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LockNLoad writes:
If it was such a "crisis" to pass this legilsation, then why didn't Nobama sign it into law on Friday night?
This is all a smokescreen to push his liberal agenda.
Interesting to note how the stock market has tanked over the past several trading days. It's because this spending plan will do little to help the economy.
By passing this massive spending plan, Nobama has just taken ownership of the economy.
February 17, 2009
9:10 a.m.
Suggest removal
Oliver2 writes:
HELP!!!! It's the Commies! It's radical Muslims! Its the 'NannyState'! Graft of Halliburton and Enron with ties to the last administration--hey that's OK, good old crony capitalism.
Greatly expanded executive powers to spy on law-abiding Americans is violation of the Constitution? No problem, it was a Republican doing it.
Investment in the United States rather than more giveaway to the wealthiest few (the only economic class that has seen their worth/income increase over the last 8 years, BTW) and it's theft, socialism, fascism (both at the same time, I love it!), terrorism, insert nasty comment about Nancy Pelosi here...
Good lord people. There are some serious nutcases out there, makes me glad to live far away from Denver where you freaks hang out.
February 17, 2009
9:17 a.m.
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Now_You_Know writes:
As a republican, I dont know what to say yet. Rush comes on in a few hours, then I will know what to think!
February 17, 2009
9:20 a.m.
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LockNLoad writes:
Energy Conservation? Yeah, right.
Noabama is planning weekly visits to different US cities as part of his "reaching out to America" initiative. What kind of carbon footprint is thei nut leaving? Oh, that's right it doesn't count because he is the Lord King Nobama.
What a pile of crap this guy is. Hypocrit.
February 17, 2009
9:28 a.m.
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timpatico writes:
Baraks slogan "Hope" seems to fit here.
February 17, 2009
9:37 a.m.
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tao41 writes:
sticks and stones... I am a native American citizen of many generations here in Colorado. The fact that I am well educated hardly makes me a European! Not that there is any thing wrong with being one. A person can actually obtain an excellent education if one works hard for it. When are some of you folks going to realize that ad hominem attacks(personal disparagement) reflects more on the originator than the recipient? Perhaps a lack of manners is a result of a poor upbringing? Hmmm.
February 17, 2009
9:39 a.m.
Suggest removal
B300 writes:
I just wonder how obanger can say he can help the economy. In 2005 he voted against saving fannie mae/freddie mac. Obanger voted against regulation at that time. So did he just watch the whole thing go to h&ll while distroying Bush's reputation. Is that part of how they got into office? Maybe obanger can cough up some of that money from his own dealings? So what about acountability, and transparency? This is a historical event allright, the biggest lie in history. BUTT HEAD!!!
February 17, 2009
9:46 a.m.
Suggest removal
homeradam writes:
This guy is a joke and his clowns are way in over their heads. How come the tax evading Geitner won't give any details of his super bailout plan????? A true economy would let the losers that are losing their homes......lose them. Maybe you shouldn't have bought a $500,000 home while working as a home depot bag boy. A true economy would have let the automakers file for chapter 11 like every troubled company before them. Maybe the UAW needs to be kicked in the b@lls and told to take a hike. Stock market is down over 2200 pts since you fools voted him in. The beginning of true Socialism!
February 17, 2009
9:50 a.m.
Suggest removal
Triumph writes:
NowYouKnow
We thought you were a hypnotized Obamanite and defend every illconcieved notion your messiah proclaims. So you on the other hand have to don't think. Jonestown all over again!
Poison Kool Aid Anyone?
February 17, 2009
9:52 a.m.
Suggest removal
T1anda writes:
According to the latest news it will take 10,000 gallons of fuel for Comrade Obama to come to Denver and sign this atrocity of a bill also 10,000 gallons for Socialist Obama to return to D.C.
It would take the average driver 30 years to use 10,000 gallons of fuel.
Change we can believe in..Disgusting!!
February 17, 2009
10:17 a.m.
Suggest removal
tao41 writes:
It occurs to me that at least some of the posters here, unlike us retired folks, must be unemployed workers, or workers who are goofing off while supposedly busy doing what they are being paid for? Perhaps the workers who are slackers don't realize their bosses can now read ALL of their e-mails using new "snooper" software!! Comments?
February 17, 2009
10:18 a.m.
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mrwiizrd writes:
"an array of solar panels was installed on its roof last June that today are providing from 3 to 5 percent of the building's power."
What a joke.
February 17, 2009
10:45 a.m.
Suggest removal
ActualThinker writes:
This is a tough bill because no one wants to spend this kind of money (despite what republican radio personalities may have told you). Rather than trash with no substance though why has there been no discussion over good alternatives to this?? The only other plan I saw was McCain's and it would have cost a couple trillion, just in tax cuts rather than spending. We have six years of recent evidence that shows that tax cuts do NOT stimulate the economy. Trickle down does not work, particularly at a fast pace, giving everyone an extra $12 in their paycheck is not going to make this country booming again.
Doing nothing was also not an option. We have historical evidence from our country and other countries that show that waiting it out is a disaster.
So then what other alternatives were there that might have helped? If this bill is so bad then surely you know something that would be better, what is it? I genuinely want to know but please provide some actual basis for your thought (like examples of what has worked in the past or for other countries in this situation).
February 17, 2009
3 p.m.
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tao41 writes:
FRN4U, Now it becomes quite clear to me why you have made some of the odd comments that you have. For your clarification, I have NEVER spoken of any "European adventures" in previous posts and NEVER have I spoken of any "kung fu" killing abilities either. It is eminently evident now that you have confused me with some other person who posts in these blogs. Be kind to us all and exercise much more due diligence prior to such extraordinary and mistaken assumptions as you have posted about me in the past! By the way, I meant to say I was a native BORN American, not a Native American. (as in indigenous people). However, I am glad that you are friends with Native Americans, and I am sure they are proud to claim you as a friend as well.
February 17, 2009
4:27 p.m.
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rickg19611 writes:
Do the supporters of this bill even know what they’re getting…. And sacrificing…..
1) This bill contains $20 million to pay for one project to protect a single wetlands area in a politician’s neighborhood.
That $20 million could have been used to save the lives of 27 million children instead.
28% of all children in Africa die before they reach their 5th birthday. One of the leading causes is tetanus, which can be prevented with a simple vaccine that costs 74 cents. A vaccine for 27 million children would cost $20 million.
Priorities….. one small wetlands project in a politician’s neighborhood or the lives of 27 million children. Which did the politicians choose? Which would you choose?
2) There is $3.2 billion to expand a NASA program on research activities.
That $3.2 billion could have been spent to save the lives of 14.8 million children and allowed them to have the basic necessities of life (food, clothing, shelter) for an entire year.
The average orphan living in Sierra Leone needs $12 a month for food, $3 a month for clothing, and $3 a month as their share of the housing costs for them to live in a level of squalor that Americans cannot imagine. That is $18 a month, or $216 a year for the basic necessities of life. 14.8 million children can live for a year on $3.2 billion. Imagine how many could live for $800 billion.
Priorities….. some extra research for NASA or the lives of 14.8 million children. Which did the politicians choose? Which would you choose?
3) $11 billion of the bill is to have taxpayers subsidize energy companies and pay for their electrical grid upgrades that the companies would ordinarily pay for themselves. This will boost the profits of these companies, but it is unlikely consumers will see any benefit from $11 billion of their money being spent on it.
That $11 billion would be enough to cover the costs of basic necessities for 51 million orphans around the world.
Priorities….. having taxpayers subsidize the costs of energy companies so they can boost their profits (and executive bonuses) or helping 51 million orphans around the world to survive to see their next birthday. Which did the politicians choose? Which would you choose?
February 17, 2009
4:51 p.m.
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rickg19611 writes:
ActualThinker..
"We have six years of recent evidence that shows that tax cuts do NOT stimulate the economy. "
Actually, the economic research over the past 80 years shows that tax cuts do stimulate the economy. The issue we're facing now is not that the economy wasn't stimulated over the past 6 years.... it's that there were excessive levels of debt built up for a variety of reasons, and now the economy is deleveraging as people realize that the debt cannot be serviced from cash flow.
With that correction stated, I don't believe that tax cuts are the magic potion for improving the economy at this moment in time. I think they are better than the current plan though, as they have a much faster stimulative effect on GDP growth than the promises of government spending that will take months, or even years, to even start.
The primary solution is to resolve the bad credit issue that has caused the banks to shut down lending. Until those "toxic" mortgages... mainly subprime loans gone bad.... are off the bank's loan books, they will continue to struggle to maintain their loan to capital ratios, so they will resist taking any chances by adding more loans to their portfolios.
"Doing nothing was also not an option. We have historical evidence from our country and other countries that show that waiting it out is a disaster."
Not really. Japan did exactly what we are doing when they entered a recession in the late 80s. They launched the most ambitious government spending program in human history. Government debt in Japan increased from 60% of GDP in 1990, to 181% in 2007. Over this time, Japan's economy has remained at a standstill
"So then what other alternatives were there that might have helped? "
Focus 90% of the attention on fixing the issue that is causing 90% of the problem. Too much debt from the real estate bubble gone heywire. Adding government debt doesn't do anything to fix that... just make it worse.
The other 10% needs to be to stop Obama and politicians from using panic and doom and gloom to get their political plans through Congress. When a president starts acting like his hair is on fire, average Americans start to think there is something to panic about... which causes them to stop spending, hunker down, and the economy slows even more as consumer spending makes up 70% of GDP.
A great research tool is the Federal Reserve Economic Research Database. It's nicknamed FRED. Do a google search for Fed and Fred, and you'll find it. You'll see the economic statistics for the US, all the way back to 1929. Check and see how things like changes in government spending and GDP correlate. They don't. See how changes in gross private investment and GDP correlate. They do. Those are the types of real world cases that shows exactly what should be done in this recession.... just as it has been shown in all previous recessions.
February 18, 2009
12:45 a.m.
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p_myers661 writes:
It's fitting. Obama's success began here and, it will be decided by those running away from him and his policies, that it just ended here. He is now a footnote. If he tries more nonsense, he will have to face Democrats who have to face voters in two years and know that the crud this bill is filled with, yes, I read it, has way too much stuff in it. It would have been overcrowded even if every single dime was a wise choice.
When I go shopping for Thanksgiving, I don't buy my Easter Ham and my 4th of July pork ribs at the same time. This bill not only bought the groceries and the pet food. It includes the equivalent of a dayspa experience for all the dogs in the neighborhood as well as catnip plants for the cats and new nests for all the mice. Actually, the mouse nests are actually in this bill.