Ritter: Denver museum is 'perfect venue' for Obama's bill signing
By Sara Burnett, Rocky Mountain News (Contact)
Published February 15, 2009 at 4:13 p.m.
The Denver Museum of Nature & Science, with its 465 solar panels and focus on education, makes "a perfect venue" for President Barack Obama to sign a historic $787 billion economic stimulus bill, Gov. Bill Ritter said Sunday.
Obama is scheduled to arrive Tuesday morning at Buckley Air Force Base in Aurora, then head to the city where he accepted his party's nomination less than six months ago for an invitation-only bill signing.
All invitations already have been given out, and the museum will be closed to the public Tuesday.
Colorado has been aggressive in what Ritter coined the "new energy economy" - investing in wind, solar and other renewable energy sources as a way to create jobs and reduce the country's reliance on foreign oil.
The approach is a big part of the economic stimulus package sent to Obama's desk Friday. Colorado, for example, stands to receive more than $130 million for clean energy and weatherization assistance programs under the plan. It also includes tax incentives for renewable energy facilities.
Ritter said the Obama administration was looking last week for a site in the Denver area that made use of renewable energy so the president could tout that portion of the package.
Turnaround next year
The event likely would have been similar to one last week in Elkhart, Ind. - a community that has seen joblessness soar to 15 percent - where Obama urged Congress to act. But when the Senate approved the bill Friday on a near party-line vote, the campaign-like stop instead became a bill signing.
"Colorado, because of the work that we've done in creating a new energy economy and being able to create sustainable job growth, provided this template for the administration to say, 'This is what the package is about,' " Ritter said during a news conference outside the museum Sunday. "I'd have to say that has everything to do with why it's being signed here."
The bill, which passed the House with no GOP support and the Senate with three Republican votes, is unprecedented in its cost. It aims to create or save up to 3.5 million jobs through spending and to boost consumer confidence with modest tax cuts.
Obama aides said Sunday the unemployment rate will fall once the money begins to flow, though they also said the economy will continue its downward spiral in the short term.
"I think it's safe to say that things have not yet bottomed out," press secretary Robert Gibbs said. "They are probably going to get worse before they improve. But this is a big step forward toward making that improvement and putting people back to work."
Ritter said his office must certify that processes are in place to ensure the state's share of the money is spent in a transparent way and as it is intended, before Colorado may access the funds.
While many of those processes already are in place, he said it could take up to 90 days for certification.
He is hopeful there could be "shovels in the ground" - particularly for transportation projects - in less than 180 days.
Regional economist Tucker Hart Adams said there may be a small spike in consumer confidence after the bill is signed, leading people to buy something they've had their eye on and helping sales tax revenues for February and March.
But Adams said she believes it will be 2010 before there is a noticeable turnaround in the economy - and even then, it may be tough to credit the stimulus package.
"I don't think there will be a day when we wake up and say, 'Wow. The stimulus package is starting to work,' " she said.
Still, Adams said it had to be done. "The government couldn't just sit there and do nothing at a time like this," she said.
Phoenix the next stop
Colorado's Republican members of Congress, Reps. Doug Lamborn and Mike Coffman, criticized the bill as a spending spree that will accomplish little besides sinking the country further into debt.
"This spending bill is a sorry substitute for a comprehensive economic stimulus plan to help American families and businesses," Lamborn said.
Republican Sen. John McCain, who lost the presidential race to Obama, said the package would create "generational theft" - huge federal deficits for years to come.
He also said Obama had backtracked on promises of bipartisanship.
Republican Sen. Lindsay Graham, of South Carolina, put it more bluntly.
"If this is going to be bipartisanship, the country's screwed," he said.
Gibbs defended the process, however, saying Obama had taken "unprecedented" steps to include Republicans.
Obama is scheduled to travel on to Phoenix, where he will talk Wednesday about reversing the collapse of the housing sector.
The Associated Press contributed to this report.
Colorado's stimulus share
Democrats say the stimulus package President Barack Obama is scheduled to sign Tuesday in Denver will save or create 59,000 jobs in the state. Money slated for Colorado includes*:
* $612 million for a "state fiscal stabilization fund" for school districts, public colleges and universities and other "high-priority needs" such as public safety
* $404 million for highway funding
* $180 million for the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (formerly known as food stamps)
* $130 million for energy and weatherization assistance programs
* $104 million for investment in mass transit
* $34 million for law enforcement, including grants to fight Internet crime against children and domestic violence
* A tax credit of up to $400 for workers who make less than about $75,000 per year, or a credit of up to $800 for married couples filing jointly who make about $150,000 or less
The Associated Press contributed to this report. burnetts@RockyMountainNews.com or 303-954-5343
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February 15, 2009
4:38 p.m.
Suggest removal
HisPrinceMichael writes:
Riiiight-riiiiiiiiight, that's why Pharaoh chose Denver.
Apparently, Fear can be a great motivator, or, as his
good friend Bill Ayers might say: "You don't need a Weatherman
to know which way the wind blows".
Word-is-out, there's a NEW Sheriff in town:
http://www.all4webs.com/q/f/love4yahweh
February 15, 2009
5:01 p.m.
Suggest removal
HighwayRobbery writes:
There could be no better investment in America than to invest in America becoming energy independent! We need to utilize everything in out power to reduce our dependence on foreign oil including using our own natural resources. Create cheap clean energy, new badly needed green jobs, and reduce our dependence on foreign oil. The high cost of fuel this past year seriously damaged our economy and society. The cost of fuel effects every facet of consumer goods from production to shipping costs. After a brief reprieve gas is inching back up. OPEC will continue to cut production until they achieve their desired 80-100. per barrel. If all gasoline cars, trucks, and SUV's instead had plug-in electric drive trains, the amount of electricity needed to replace gasoline is about equal to the estimated wind energy potential of the state of North Dakota. There is a really good new book out by Jeff Wilson called The Manhattan Project of 2009 Energy Independence Now. http://www.themanhattanprojectof2009.com
February 15, 2009
5:11 p.m.
Suggest removal
portal_pyramids writes:
The Republicans who worry that we creating enormous debt for future generations are probably right. What I find interesting is the sudden concern about debt accumulation now and the noticable silence the last eight years when we were pushing our national debt by the trillions into war!
I am sorry, but you have lost all credibility with anyone with common sense and your attempt thwart our new administration is thinly veiled. He has tried to reach across the party lines for your input but frankly your ideas are old and tired and useless or worse. You can cry all you want about this not being a partisan bill, his effort to include you was way more than Bush ever offered.
I try really hard to understand and like everyone but you Republicans seem like a dangerous, dark sort. I hope you will come around and genuinely offer a contribution in the new vision. The People have spoken!
February 15, 2009
5:53 p.m.
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windskull writes:
These Limbaugh looney`s are like that blonde coyote, it chewed off 3 legs and was still in the trap!
February 15, 2009
6:15 p.m.
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FCZ writes:
Government is not the solution;
government is the problem
February 15, 2009
6:43 p.m.
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mmannino writes:
The new energy economy is a fraud. The new energy industry feeds at the trough of government subsidies and mandates. Without massive subsidies and mandates, this industry would be lean and efficient. Instead, we have an industry bloated with government handouts and consumer mandates. The net result of the new energy economy will be a non competitive energy industry. We face a future with high energy prices, energy shortages, and high taxes to subsidize a critical but inefficient industry.
February 15, 2009
6:49 p.m.
Suggest removal
Sgt_Pepper_7_62 writes:
"Numbskull" You're are mistaken...That coyote chewed all his legs off try'n to get out of Nazi Piglosi bedroom..........
February 15, 2009
7:01 p.m.
Suggest removal
windskull writes:
sgt wrong floor dumbkoff...the aryan fools rally is in the sub-basement next to your intellect
February 15, 2009
7:09 p.m.
Suggest removal
Shadow writes:
If the economy is in such dire straights, then why all the pork spending on projects already slated to start and why take time out to go to Chicago for dinner. I could swear that the messiah said that it was nessecary to have the bill on his desk by the 13TH for signing. So why the delay till the 16TH?
February 15, 2009
7:16 p.m.
Suggest removal
bitwranglers writes:
We will be taking an overdose of the narcotic 'Socialism' on Tuesday. Just like any junkie - the initial high will be incredible, only to have to deal with the habit just as soon as this high wears off.
February 15, 2009
7:32 p.m.
Suggest removal
TallPaul writes:
Have you noticed how weak Obama is without a canned speech using a teleprompter? When he is instead faced with question and answer time, he launches into vagaries with his eyes almost closed, looking down instead of out to his audience. He is lost without the teleprompter. What a fraud.
What should worry us is that he can't stop campaigning. He and his team can't sit still in Washington and work on solving our nation's problems. He has to come out on the road and read a canned speech in Denver. Will he pull out the styrofoam Greek columns?
Note that his canned speeches put "hope above fear". while his question and answer responses talk about "catastophies" and "the Depression". Obviously his handlers are trying to veer him away from the gloom and doom that he really likes to push on us.
Interesting that he had to have approval on the stimulus immediately, yet he took off on a 3-day vacation, Nancy Pelosi took off on an eight day trip to Italy on a junket, and none of the House members could read the bill before approving it. His legislative victory was jamming the stimulus down our throats, with no House Republicans and only three Senate Republicans signing on. The three Senate Republicans were bought off with hundreds of millions of dollars of pork to buy their votes. What has become of "post-partisanship"? It was all just campaign slogans. He has had more scandals in three weeks than Mr. Bush in three years. I predict it won't be long before one of the scandals pulls him in. He is just barely staying above the fray.
February 15, 2009
8 p.m.
Suggest removal
dragonfly writes:
No one read the 1074 pages of this bill before it was passed. There wasn't time. So much for the "transparency" of this administration. The only thing that will become transparent is that we have been screwed.
February 15, 2009
8:06 p.m.
Suggest removal
p_myers661 writes:
I think we need to stand by silently, I'd bring blank signs if I could. Obama is who he is and the blind rush towards socialism will derail itself by the overreaching of the legislators who are pushing it.'
The American people tend to be patient and then angry. This time the anger will rain down on a party that expects to rule via fiat rather than reason. I'm looking forward to the crash when we get hit again by terrorists.
No, I don't want us to be hit, but it will happen and I am certain neither Obama or his hand picked advisers will have a clue on what to do. On top of that they have the loonies on their side (we have opurs too) who have a strong voice and heavy hand. They will be parrrrrrralyzed and forced top use only words until somoneone tells Obama what to say.
February 15, 2009
8:15 p.m.
Suggest removal
jbowen43 writes:
You do the math. Looks like nearly all the national debt was created by Reagan, Bush the Elder and Bush the Lessor. Missing of course is another trillion accrued in Shrub's last four months.
Date Dollar Amount
09/30/2008 10,024,724,896,912.49
09/30/2007 9,007,653,372,262.48
09/30/2006 8,506,973,899,215.23
09/30/2005 7,932,709,661,723.50
09/30/2004 7,379,052,696,330.32
09/30/2003 6,783,231,062,743.62
09/30/2002 6,228,235,965,597.16
09/30/2001 5,807,463,412,200.06
09/30/2000 5,674,178,209,886.86
09/30/1999 5,656,270,901,615.43
09/30/1998 5,526,193,008,897.62
09/30/1997 5,413,146,011,397.34
09/30/1996 5,224,810,939,135.73
09/29/1995 4,973,982,900,709.39
09/30/1994 4,692,749,910,013.32
09/30/1993 4,411,488,883,139.38
09/30/1992 4,064,620,655,521.66
09/30/1991 3,665,303,351,697.03
09/28/1990 3,233,313,451,777.25
09/29/1989 2,857,430,960,187.32
09/30/1988 2,602,337,712,041.16
09/30/1987 2,350,276,890,953.00
09/30/1986 2,125,302,616,658.42
09/30/1985 * 1,823,103,000,000.00
09/30/1984 * 1,572,266,000,000.00
09/30/1983 * 1,377,210,000,000.00
09/30/1982 * 1,142,034,000,000.00
09/30/1981 * 997,855,000,000.00
09/30/1980 * 907,701,000,000.00
09/30/1979 * 826,519,000,000.00
09/30/1978 * 771,544,000,000.00
09/30/1977 * 698,840,000,000.00
06/30/1976 * 620,433,000,000.00
* Rounded to Millions
February 15, 2009
8:37 p.m.
Suggest removal
mmannino writes:
portal_pyramids,
You are correct. The Republicans spent too much in the period 2001 to 2006. However, in almost every area, Republicans were criticized for spending too little. The Democrats are the hypocrites for their orgy of spending in just one month. The Democrats made no effort to control spending after they gained control of Congress in 2007. Conservatives have criticized the liberal members of the Republican party for many years. If you are concerned about spending, you should support conservative Republicans, not Democrats and free spending Republicans.
February 15, 2009
8:51 p.m.
Suggest removal
WiseFool writes:
President Obama's decision to sign the Stimulus Bill at the Museum of Science and Nature bodes extremely well for Denver and Colorado. This is auspicious.
February 15, 2009
8:52 p.m.
Suggest removal
glock27 writes:
I wonder if Obama will actually have read the 1400 pages before he signs it?
Will any of our local journalists pursue this line of inquiry?
February 15, 2009
8:53 p.m.
Suggest removal
leavemealone writes:
"money is spent in a transparent way, and in the way it is intended"
More government lip service....Yadda
I'm going to figure out a way to play this game. For real.
What the heck.
February 15, 2009
9:12 p.m.
Suggest removal
spyder writes:
What does algore say about flying a jet from Washington,DC to Denver, Colorado and back?
Oh yeah, he probably thinks it's great because I am sure his company is being paid to "offset" the carbon footprint.
Sheridan, however, would be appalled!!!
February 15, 2009
9:13 p.m.
Suggest removal
mmannino writes:
jbowen43,
You are convenienty forgetting that Congress has responsibility for the budget. The Democrats controlled Congress during Reagan and Bush I. During Bush II, the Democrats wanted to spend much more than the free spending Republicans in every area except national defense. The Democrats did nothing to control spending after gaining control in 2006. Now we see the real agenda of the Democrats in this spending orgy bill. The longer this bill was reviewed, the worse it stunk. Thus, the Democrats rushed it through so that it could not be thoroughly reviewed. The Democrats have demonstrated the worst practices of irresponsible government.
February 15, 2009
9:13 p.m.
Suggest removal
rickg19611 writes:
jbowen43...
The level of federal debt under Bush rose by $4 trillion. Will you criticize Obama if he increases debt by more than $4 trillion, or will you be a hypocrite and suddenly not have any concern about it?
BTW.... you may have the chance soon to prove you are not a hypocrite.... the amount of spending that Obama has publicly committed to will increase the level of Federal debt by $4 trillion this year alone ($1.2 trillion defict, $2 trillion for Geithner bank plan, $800 billion for stimulus plan, $375 billion for TARP II). Of course, an honest person would concede that raising federal debt more in one year is far worse than raising it that much over 8 years. I wonder which you will prove yourself to be.... honest or a hypocrite. We'll know soon.
February 15, 2009
9:32 p.m.
Suggest removal
Hstowell writes:
You got to love it, the top clown in the state Bill "Tax" Ritter welcoming the Clown Prince of the USA Obama. You remember Ritter, the guy who just raised your vehicle license plate taxes, the guy who wants illegal aliens to have driver's licenses, and the guy who gave plea bargains for agricultural trespass rather in lieu of drug distribution charges. Now his pal Obama is going to arrive in town and sign into law the largest pork chop in the nation's history. One that we'll all be paying for years after he is out of office. People need to wake up and smell the coffee.
February 15, 2009
9:41 p.m.
Suggest removal
littcar67 writes:
Obama criticized the Big 3 Auto CEOs for using their private jets to fly to Washington (and rightfully so). Now he's flying Air Force One to Denver just to sign a bill! If he's worried about energy dependence and global warming, why doesn't he just stay home? What a hypocrite! The only thing worse than Wall Street is Washington.
February 15, 2009
10:59 p.m.
Suggest removal
me2 writes:
This is just eating the Republicans lunch. And P-myers I doubt that you would recognize socialism if it wrapped itself around your neck and bit you on the cheek.
Nice visual there.
Some Republicans want to nationalize a few banks, now is that or is that not socialism? I'm not telling.
February 15, 2009
11:40 p.m.
Suggest removal
Vertitas writes:
It is fitting that the stimulus bill should be signed at this particular museum. Their money-grubbing management is lobbying for another slice of federal pork to bailout their mismanaged and failing institution.
February 16, 2009
1:11 a.m.
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BetterEducated writes:
Don't know about that, Vertitas, but I do miss the "old museum."
February 16, 2009
3:22 a.m.
Suggest removal
LOUIE writes:
Good to have the president come to our state regardless of party; the recognition of our state by the highest office in America, is always a good thing regardless of which party holds the office. We are going to struggle together as people regardless of party affiliations, (I am loyal to neither), but it's great that our state receive the attention that a presidential visit can bring. Roll out the carpet, we need the all the attention we can get especially in these bad times.
February 16, 2009
3:43 a.m.
Suggest removal
INC writes:
the part republicans conveniently for get about this bill is it is the largest TAX CUT to the middle class in history.
the class of people republicans disdain. As if the Middle class is doing good republican millions do not seem as valuable.
February 16, 2009
6:19 a.m.
Suggest removal
SanctuaryCity writes:
Ritter should of insisted on the primate exhibit at the zoo. You could of seen what is really going to happen to the taxpayers
February 16, 2009
7:29 a.m.
Suggest removal
Quidam writes:
The Porkolopis of Denver
Any part of the piggy
Is quite alright with me.
Ham from Chicago, ham from Alabama
Ham as lean as the Dalai Lama
Ham from Virginia, ham from New York,
Trotters, sausages, hot roast pork.
Crackling crisp for my teeth to grind on
Bacon with or without the rind on
Though humanitarian
I'm not a vegetarian.
I'm neither a crank nor prude nor prig
And though it may sound infra dig
Any part of the darling pig
Is perfectly fine by me.
February 16, 2009
7:34 a.m.
Suggest removal
peter303 writes:
Colorado is an "all energy" economy (save nuclear). Thirty mile-long trains a week each carrying 15 kilotons of coal snake through Denver to southern Colorado electric power plants. Other Colorado power plants use cleaner burning natural gas from some of the several thousand wells drilled in Colorado every year. Several pilot projects investigate the massive shale oil reserves in the west that could make Colorado the equal of Saudi Arabia if these could be utilized. Plus Colorado is installing more solar and wind mills every month.
February 16, 2009
7:43 a.m.
Suggest removal
Romanesco writes:
"All invitations already have been given out, and the museum will be closed to the public Tuesday."
Who did the invitations go out to? The taxpayers who will be funding it for the next x number of years???
February 16, 2009
7:49 a.m.
Suggest removal
taoistblockhead writes:
http://jameshowardkunstler.typepad.com/
Presidents Day
“A creepy feeling ushers in President's Day this year as the suspicion grows that nobody in charge of anything knows what to do next. The usual yin-yang consensus has solidified in congress along party lines, both equally idiotic. In the White House, Mr. Obama is under excruciating pressure to "do something" as systems unravel and economies augur into darkness. Amid all the anxiety and raging cluelessness, one thing is clear: we're doing everything possible to evade reality.
“The reality we can't face is that one way of life is over and a new one is waiting to be born. It's been waiting, really, since the early 1970s, when God whacked the USA upside its head to announce that we'd outgrown our once-stupendous domestic supply of oil. ...
“I suspect that President Obama has learned over the last several weeks that the nation's banking system and economy - indeed, the whole world's - are in way worse shape than anyone imagined before January 20. He is faced with the immediate crushing problem of appearing to do something while a tsunami of catastrophic debt deleveraging sweeps away the first outlier nations and their economies and bears down on the G-7. I suspect that in a few weeks, or possibly even a few days, Mr. Obama will have to start announcing all kinds of new and more drastic measures that will shock the stunned American public - things like bank holidays, nationalizations, possibly even dollar devaluation. …”
February 16, 2009
7:57 a.m.
Suggest removal
FlyfishDude52 writes:
It is pretty cool having ANY president visit your home state!
If this pork-laden pos bill was sooooo important that it had to be pushed through congress without the necessary time to review language, much less content, then tell me why, oh why, can it wait another four days to be signed into law??? Talk about ridiculous partisan, from both sides of the aisle, posturing.
The economy needs consumer spending, not federally sponsored and specified "School stabilization, weatherization, over-the-top food stamp programs." This is a typical liberal bill, though I must note that the last republican controlled congress shat upon themselves in a most derogatory fashion, making government larger without any chance of a return on the investment.
Thanks lawmakers, thanks a lot. There is not one incumbent that I will vote for in two years. Not one & never again shall I vote for an incumbent. I suggest all who have a love of their country do the same. It is exactly like a term limit. This, if we all do our job as voters, after a while will greatly diminish the time & money spent electioneering for the next term so that they may pay closer attention to the actual job as they know thatt re-election is impossible. When we reach that point we may see a signifcant turn-around to the debacle called the US government.
February 16, 2009
8:09 a.m.
Suggest removal
7Dave7 writes:
If government spending is stimulus, then why aren't you left wing lunatics linking Bush's unprecedented spending with the recession we are in? You use those figures to beat him over the head with but it clearly defeat Obama's assertion that spending is stimulus. By the way we have not spent trillions on the wars, which will actually improve our safety in the long run. We've spent trillions paying welfare recipients to sit at home, reproduce, do drugs, abuse alcohol and overload our emergency room when their health mysteriously fails! What a waste!
February 16, 2009
8:53 a.m.
Suggest removal
LockNLoad writes:
This bill is a waste of taxpayer money. There is no transperancy in the Nobama administration, and they are clearly trying to drive this country into Socialism.
Government is the problem, not the solution.
Wait till you see the national debt after the Nobama crooks get their agenda passed. Their motto: Just keep printing money, and give it to our special interest groups!
This bill is a massive pile of bu!!sh!t.
February 16, 2009
8:56 a.m.
Suggest removal
rickg19611 writes:
"What I find interesting is the sudden concern about debt accumulation now and the noticable silence the last eight years "
Equally interesting how Democrats whine and cry about increasing the debt by $4 trillion over 8 years is such a disaster, and yet with Obama committing to increasing it by $4 trillion in 1 year, the same hypocrite Democrats are cheering.
February 16, 2009
9:33 a.m.
Suggest removal
rickg19611 writes:
"Adams said she believes it will be 2010 before there is a noticeable turnaround in the economy - and even then, it may be tough to credit the stimulus package. "I don't think there will be a day when we wake up and say, 'Wow. The stimulus package is starting to work,' " she said."
And yet Obamatrons will still be claiming that this failed pork bill that adds trillions in debt is the greatest thing since..... silly string, hair in a can, and pet rocks.
February 16, 2009
9:57 a.m.
Suggest removal
Bernie writes:
"Enter a demagogue; exit a tyrant" - Alexander Hamilton
February 16, 2009
9:58 a.m.
Suggest removal
INC writes:
rickg19611,
the spending bill you hate so much is also the biggest tax cut in history. tax cut to the middle class not just the wealthy. yes this stimulus could be better... aside from being produced by republicans. ( to quell conservative hearts) it is far better than doing nothing.
February 16, 2009
9:59 a.m.
Now_You_Know writes:
(This comment was removed by the site staff.)
February 16, 2009
10:04 a.m.
Suggest removal
ifyem writes:
FlyfishDude52 writes:
It is pretty cool having ANY president visit your home state!
If this pork-laden pos bill was sooooo important that it had to be pushed through congress without the necessary time to review language, much less content, then tell me why, oh why, can it wait another four days to be signed into law??? Talk about ridiculous partisan, from both sides of the aisle, posturing.
The economy needs consumer spending, not federally sponsored and specified "School stabilization, weatherization, over-the-top food stamp programs." This is a typical liberal bill, though I must note that the last republican controlled congress shat upon themselves in a most derogatory fashion, making government larger without any chance of a return on the investment.
Thanks lawmakers, thanks a lot. There is not one incumbent that I will vote for in two years. Not one & never again shall I vote for an incumbent. I suggest all who have a love of their country do the same. It is exactly like a term limit. This, if we all do our job as voters, after a while will greatly diminish the time & money spent electioneering for the next term so that they may pay closer attention to the actual job as they know thatt re-election is impossible. When we reach that point we may see a signifcant turn-around to the debacle called the US government.
I completely agree Flyfishdude. This debacle was created by both sides of the aisle. These politicians have no clue what they are doing, whether it be giving Bush the green light to go into Iraq or pissing billions of dollars down the drain on this "stimulus" bill...Hopefully both parties' actions will eventually result the creation of a viable third party in the coming future!
February 16, 2009
10:09 a.m.
Suggest removal
FCZ writes:
Zimbabwe School of Economics
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBI2mC...
February 16, 2009
10:15 a.m.
Suggest removal
JMaster writes:
hey rickyg nice number $4 trillion in one year too bad its a load of crap.
February 16, 2009
10:21 a.m.
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FlyfishDude52 writes:
ifyem - thanks, but I have one point of contention with your response. Namely that the politicians have no idea what they're doing. I believe that both sides know exactly what they're doing. The repubs, with giving virtually no support (house = 3 votes for; senate = 0 votes for ) for the porkulus bill, are setting the stage for future finger-pointing and go for the throat of a non-function congressional spending orgy. Then they'll say, "I told you so!" The dems for furthering their agenda in the move to nationalize and socialize the USA. Either way, "We the People" lose big-time.
February 16, 2009
10:33 a.m.
Suggest removal
taoistblockhead writes:
“The real truth of the matter is, as you and I know, that a financial element in the larger centers has owned the Government ever since the days of Andrew Jackson.” – Franklin D. Roosevelt to Colonel Edward House, October 21, 1933
February 16, 2009
10:37 a.m.
Suggest removal
KarlCheney writes:
Everybody is an economic expert here, Geeez don't be so negative and say anything and everything won't work. You will scare the American people into thinking nothing will work. Isn't that what you right wingers say: If the left wing media didn't spew all that doom and gloom things might not be so bad. Come on, when the righties said the fundamentals of the economy were strong, were they lying? Come on guys fall in line, everything is fine, everything is fine, everything is fine..... Why so negative? Oh yeah it's because you and your conservative party alone created this mess. Bush just left every mess he created for someone else to clean up, he was the decider and he decided to tank the country. But now you want to blame Obama after 1 month. Both parties did not create this mess, the Bush administration created this mess. You con's can whine and cry all you want about what Obama is doing but Bush created it. Just step out of the way already, let the grownups work....
February 16, 2009
10:38 a.m.
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Bernie writes:
There are a lot of comments on here about the old way of thinking. Well, that way of thinking worked pretty well for over 200 years. But, today is different from the past and we need to start over, change everything. Take a look around people, while companies are trimming their payrolls and people are out of work, the government continues to hire and create more bureaucracies. They continue to overreach and encroach on our freedoms and this stimulus bill is going to put it over the top.
February 16, 2009
10:52 a.m.
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rickg19611 writes:
JMaster writes:
"hey rickyg nice number $4 trillion in one year too bad its a load of crap."
Do the math...
Obama's own economic team projects a $1.2 trillion budget deficit this year for regular government operations
Cost of Obama stimulus plan $800 billion
Cost of Obama's plan to use another $375 billion for TARP II.
Cost of Obama and Geithner's announced bank bailout plan is $2 trillion.
Now follow along closely.... 1.2 trillion + 800 billion + 375 billion + 2 trillion = 4.375 trillion.
Even accounting for PART of the 800 billion being slow and up to 375 billion not getting spent this year, it still will be an increase in debt of 4 trillion.
Of course, the Obamatrons think that increasing the debt by $4 trillion in one year is great! Right after they forget that they were whining and crying about an increase of $ 4 trillion over 8 years!
February 16, 2009
10:54 a.m.
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RightDownTheMiddle writes:
Is it a requirement these days to be ignorant and delusional to continue being a GOP supporter?
Based on these posts around here it must be....
February 16, 2009
10:54 a.m.
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Quidam writes:
Porkulous Package
The so-called “Porkulous Package” is being sold to taxpayers as an investment in useful infrastructure like roads and bridges. But the facts clearly show otherwise.
Only 3.6% of the scheme’s $825 billion price tag would actually go to real infrastructure projects -- roads and bridges.
Most of the other 96.4% would go to special interest pet projects, and to cramming years’ worth of radical policy changes into the single largest spending and debt scheme in history.
Even the Congressional Budget Office, the official scorekeeper of the economic impact of legislation, has said in a letter on February 13, 2009, to House Speaker, Nancy Pelosi,"...it will increase the Federal Deficit by $787.2 Billion."
http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/99xx/doc99...
February 16, 2009
11:23 a.m.
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Bernie writes:
RightDownTheMiddle being ignorant and delusional is believing that Utopia exists. That's what the left and the progressives strive for right?
February 16, 2009
11:26 a.m.
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rickg19611 writes:
"the spending bill you hate so much is also the biggest tax cut in history"
Let's test the honesty of that statement....
From the article above, the current Obama bill contains.... "* A tax credit of up to $400 for workers who make less than about $75,000 per year, or a credit of up to $800 for married couples filing jointly who make about $150,000 or less"
Ok.... take an average American worker making $50,000 per year. In the Obama plan, he/she will get a $400 tax credit.
Now... recall the tax rebates that occured in early 2008.
That same average American worker making $50,000 per year, got $600. Uh-huh.... looks like it is a "lie" to say that Obama's tax cut is the "largest in history"
But wait…. Let’s see if a married couple makes a difference.
Average American couple with two children that earns $50,000 will get $800 under Obama plan. Under 2008 tax plan, they got $1800.
Geez…. Obama’s tax cut isn’t even the largest in the last YEAR! Let alone in history.
Another Obamatron lie has been refuted.
http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/t...
February 16, 2009
11:30 a.m.
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Nobama writes:
I'm out of the state temporarily. Wish I could be there to actively protest Obama's action. Nothing to celebrate, I assure you. It's a sad day for this country and the State of Colorado. How's that snake oil working out for you Obama "followers"? I don't think you can depend on it for steady and healthy sustinence. But, some naive, gullible, idealistic and/or ignorant folks just have to learn the hard way. Unfortunately, the rest of us (admittedly not a majority) have to suffer along with you. This will take a long time to sink in and then correct, if ever.
February 16, 2009
11:34 a.m.
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MavrickG writes:
So what have we learned in two millennia?
"The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, Public Debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed lest Rome become bankrupt. People must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistance."
- Cicero - 55 BC
Evidently nothing.
February 16, 2009
11:37 a.m.
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Truth writes:
Someone should host a Pork and Waffle breakfast for Barack Hussein Obama to attend as a welcome.
February 16, 2009
11:57 a.m.
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expats writes:
RIGHTDOWNTHEMIDDLE You forgot to mention that you must use the word PORK in every sentence now to describe any thing you don't agree with. I figure it must come from Lord Limbaugh or that other rocket scientist Shawn Hannity! God please help mankind find a cure for right wing thinking! Actually that's an oxymoron "Right Wing Thinking".
February 16, 2009
12:16 p.m.
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JMaster writes:
See rickyg this is why your math is worthless because this is not all pure government "spending" contributing directly to our national debt (like the Iraq war did) with no future pay back! This is the REALLY big point that all you Obama haters simply ignore.
Do any of you even understand the difference between appropriations, loans and loan guarantees?
Loans (like the bank bailouts) and stay with me on this little ricky get paid back with "interest" as long as the business (in this case national banks) stay solvent. And loan guarantees only get used if there are defaults on loans that are federally backed. So no money usually changes hands at all. So there is $3 trillion of your $4 trillion dollar figure improperly described as pure "debt" with no return.
The stimulus bill is around $800 billion which yes a great deal of it is pet projects and pork but I blame our democratic congress not Obama. However, that said it is not $800 billion of spending alone it is roughly 2/3 spending and 1/3 tax breaks that benefit mostly the middle class (the backbone of a capitalistic model not millionaires).
Again my point here is that you all THINK you know what your talking about, but in the end you are just pissing in the wind!
And to Nobama I feel really, really sad for your suffering. NOT! Ha ha!
February 16, 2009
1:59 p.m.
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rickg19611 writes:
JMASTER...
"your math is worthless because this is not all pure government "spending" contributing directly to our national debt (like the Iraq war did) with no future pay back!"
So... government spending that exceeds the amount the government receives in tax receipts should not be considered debt (even though the federal government has to issue treasury bonds and notes to fund it).
ROFLMAO! You must be a wannabe government accountant. One of the ones that says "sure we have to borrow money, but don't think of that borrowing as debt.... think of it as "unfunded, off balance sheet investments of questionable quality"."
"Loans (like the bank bailouts) and stay with me on this little ricky get paid back with "interest" as long as the business (in this case national banks) stay solvent. "
You cannot be saying that with a straight face. So... using your "logic", if you borrow $1 million dollars and give it to your cousin who needs the cash, as long as he promises to repay you, then you can tell everyone that you are not in debt for the $1 million?
When government decides to spend money for ANY purpose... building an outhouse at Yellowstone, covering a tax cut, or spending it for christmas bonuses for fatcat CEOs, or helping the homeless... and they have to BORROW that money to pay for it.... that is called DEBT. No matter what the intent of the money is to be spent on.
Also... you better do some more reading on Geithner's $2 trillion bank bailout plan. It's not loan guarantees. It is outright purchasing of bad loans and recapitalization of the banks.
And leave your government accounting to the professionals. They tend to better at lying and covering up the TRUE cost of their "off balance" sheet "investments".
February 16, 2009
2:07 p.m.
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the_ripper writes:
Who cares what Ritter the one-term-wonder thinks.
February 16, 2009
2:41 p.m.
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WiseFool writes:
If the GOP gets back into power, Colorado had better watch out. It will be punished for switching to blue. Whatever benefits we gain from the Stimulus Package will be swiftly withdrawn.
The Stimulus Package is in our best interest in this state. It is apparent that alot of money (as well as tax cuts) are being sent our way. This is good news for all of us. Certainly it is better to spend money here in Colorado than in Iraq or on Big Oil?
February 16, 2009
2:50 p.m.
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seeker writes:
The last Gallup poll from late last week showed 31% approval/58% disapproval of Congressional Republicans. Democrats were 48% approval. Obama at 67%....the American people are speaking and they are not with the Republicans.
They see the Democrats trying to do something to help the economy and they see the Republicans waving their arms with pieces of paper in their hands and offering up mock shock and suffering from moral indignation over the stimulus bill. The American people are not buying it.....try as hard as they might, the press is giving them plenty of face time on camera to display their dramatic skills, the Republicans still are not getting through to anyone but their own little 31% base. All's that's left are the far right wingers who would vote for a baboon if he ran on the Republican ticket.
At a time when we need to unite and come together as a Nation, the Republicans are playing partisan politics and putting their egos ahead of the millions of Americans who are out of work and out of unemployment benefits and food......through no fault of their own. The Republicans should be really proud that they would cut these types of things from the stimulus.
February 16, 2009
2:51 p.m.
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campesino60 writes:
This publicity stunt is Obama's version of "mission accomplished"
February 16, 2009
3:25 p.m.
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rickg19611 writes:
seeker writes:
"The last Gallup poll from late last week showed....."
A check of Gallup shows that Bush had almost identical approval ratings as Obama in his first few weeks in office.
And that is before we see month after month of negative economic data to come.... and a recognition by voters that Obama is failing to improve the economy.
February 16, 2009
3:36 p.m.
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laughingman writes:
Heh heh...look at all of you bickering and posturing and being basic tools. Some of you have some good points on both sides, but the majority of it is all the same boring partisan diatribe that you spew on and on and on and on..no amount of anything worthwhile will ever be done that way. Why don't both sides take your heads out of the sand and at least recognize some of the valid points you both have? really. To be so staunch in remaining on only one side or the other only screams herd-like mentality, which is fine because you all seem like sheep anyway.
February 16, 2009
3:37 p.m.
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JMaster writes:
Little rickyg
"So... using your "logic", if you borrow $1 million dollars and give it to your cousin who needs the cash, as long as he promises to repay you, then you can tell everyone that you are not in debt for the $1 million?"
Do you not know what a LOAN is? If you have a loan that will be REPAID at a future date with INTEREST then it is NOT a total loss into our national debt forever.
Just exactly how much of the $4 trillion debt from Bush's wars and his republican tax breaks (for the rich) are we getting back? Oh yeah thats right NOTHING!
"Also... you better do some more reading on Geithner's $2 trillion bank bailout plan. It's not loan guarantees. It is outright purchasing of bad loans and recapitalization of the banks."
And you better do YOUR homework tool. The government does not want to buy all of these toxic assets from banks directly they want to get some purchased by private equity groups and the government would only GUARANTEE a 'floor' so the equity groups risk is minimized and they are actually willing to buy them.
So why don't you leave the economics and recovery to the experts which you obviously are not!
But I am sure you think you are smarter than Geithner anyway and your recovery plans would be much, much better! LMAO!
February 16, 2009
3:48 p.m.
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JMaster writes:
rickyg
"And that is before we see month after month of negative economic data to come.... and a recognition by voters that Obama is failing to improve the economy."
Gotta crystal ball there ricky.....your prediction is just that YOURS! And if you are wrong will you get back on here and post that you are a tool that should have followed your president?
Hmmmm...that is what I thought!
February 16, 2009
3:54 p.m.
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BMat writes:
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HisPrinceMichael writes:
Riiiight-riiiiiiiiight, that's why Pharaoh chose Denver.
Apparently, Fear can be a great motivator, or, as his
good friend Bill Ayers might say: "You don't need a Weatherman
to know which way the wind blows".
Word-is-out, there's a NEW Sheriff in town:
__________________
Dude you really gotta get over the Bill Ayers thing. It didn't help McCain get elected and it ain't gonna stop the stimulus either.
Here's an idea: pick a cause people actually care about. All the "Joe the Plumber's" and "Bill the Ayers's" out there got McCain beaten in a way that he hasn't experienced since the VC let him outta jail.
On second thought maybe the republicans will continue to fail in national elections b/c of their failure to relate and adapt.
Stick to it Prince Mike. Help your guys secure another resounding defeat!
February 16, 2009
4:28 p.m.
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ghoax writes:
jbowen43---> ill informed lib, your dollar amounts are meaningless...it is the % of GDP that is the indicator that is important. More HALF TRUTHS from the lefty hate America , hate Bush, hate conservatives crowd.
February 16, 2009
4:54 p.m.
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rickg19611 writes:
JMaster writes:
"Do you not know what a LOAN is? If you have a loan that will be REPAID at a future date with INTEREST then it is NOT a total loss into our national debt forever."
Apparently you did as poorly in accounting, as you did in economics class.
When you borrow money, it is debt. A liability on your balance sheet. It doesn't matter whether you plan to use it to build a house, buy a car, or waste it on collector coins with Obama's picture on them.
All the mental gymnastics about whether you (or the Federal government) will get paid back or not is irrelevant, since borrowing money means you are increasing your level of debt.
"Just exactly how much of the $4 trillion debt from Bush's wars and his republican tax breaks (for the rich) are we getting back? Oh yeah thats right NOTHING!"
And it's all considered DEBT whether it is paid back or not.
"The government does not want to buy all of these toxic assets from banks directly they want to get some purchased by private equity groups and the government would only GUARANTEE a 'floor' so the equity groups risk is minimized and they are actually willing to buy them."
You may want to talk to Geithner and tell him that you know he doesn't understand his own plan. Make sure you record it and post on YouTube. That should make for some fun listening pleasure for everyone!
"So why don't you leave the economics and recovery to the experts which you obviously are not!"
LOL.... if you only knew what you were saying. Of course, that MA in Economics must have been for my entertainment only!
"But I am sure you think you are smarter than Geithner anyway and your recovery plans would be much, much better! LMAO!"
Actually, Geithner has the same level of graduate degree as I have... however, the odd thing is that he specialized in International Economics. Having an MA in International Economics is a bit of an unusual background for someone heading up the Federal Reserve Bank in New York. They usually have doctorate level credentials, with specializations in Monetary Economics.
But I'm sure he'll be ok as a Treasury Secretary... even though his performance in testifying before Congress on his bank bailout plan has been called "Shock and Uh" for his stammering and inability to answer many questions. Perhaps it was the challenge of realizing how stupid the questions were from the politicians.... the same clowns that just crafted an economic "stimulus" plan that has little to do with economic stimulus.
February 16, 2009
4:56 p.m.
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taoistblockhead writes:
http://theautomaticearth.blogspot.com/
"I guess it doesn't matter much, does it, as long as there are unlimited amounts of other people's money at their disposal? Or perhaps that's even their only focus to begin with. In the background, you can hear Robert Rubin, Henry Paulson, Goldman Sachs and Citigroup laugh their cold and hollow laughter. What place Obama has in all this, I don't know, but I’m getting more suspicious by the day. Small mistakes are one thing, repeated small mistakes another, and repeated huge mistakes are downright suspect. Let's ask Obama what happened to Paul Volcker, and why. While Volcker is standing next to him. What is increasingly happening, in three weeks and change, is the gutting of the democratic level of American politics, in plain daylight, in the name of huge and urgent emergencies that were created by the very people Obama has picked to solve them."
"Systematically, every potential form of criticism is eradicated, whether it's ignoring Joe Stiglitz or shoving aside Paul Volcker. If the president wants to get anywhere in solving what still can be salvaged from the ruins of America, he has to know that openness is the most important factor. Obama has so far chosen the opposite direction. I get these ad-banners on my screen from time to time that advertise IQ tests. Obama's IQ, they claim, is 125. WHile that is just over Paris Hilton’s 120, it’s certainly not brilliance territory. I guess maybe Obama is simply not that smart."
February 16, 2009
5:05 p.m.
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HisPrinceMichael writes:
BMat, I'm equally disturbed and flattered by your Prince
Michael fixation, such, is the history of The House of David.
Nonetheless, there is an old Spanish adage that advises:
Tell me who your friends are, and I'll tell you who YOU are.
Rezko. Ayers. Farrakhan. Wright. ANY questions?
Finally, I concur, indeed they have found the "perfect venue".
Aren't many obsolete and/or extinct items viewed in a
Nature and Science Museum?
Remember BMat, it's Prince MICHAEL (Daniel 12;1) and,
THE Battle has just BEGUN:
http://www.all4webs.com/q/f/love4yahweh
February 16, 2009
5:20 p.m.
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rowdy1 writes:
too bad the Pres can't fly coach...we all should be frugal good people
February 16, 2009
6:01 p.m.
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rickg19611 writes:
rowdy1 writes:
"too bad the Pres can't fly coach...we all should be frugal good people"
Or just stay where he's at and sign it there. Why waste more taxpayer dollars and increase debt even further, just for some cheap political marketing for his low IQ supporters.
February 16, 2009
9:02 p.m.
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conniesz writes:
I'm an Obama supporter and my IQ is north of 140 - what's your's?