Senate's Mideast debate divisive

Boulder activist gets tossed after pro-Israeli vote

By Lynn Bartels, Rocky Mountain News (Contact)

Published February 2, 2009 at 2:37 p.m.
Updated February 3, 2009 at 5:54 p.m.

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Photo by Linda McConnell © special to the Rocky

Dan Winters holds up a sign, which read in part, ...'FOR A HATE RESOLUTION' as security guard Dan Erickson tries to grab the sign from him at the State Capitol in Denver, Colo. Monday February 02, 2009. As senate members talked about SR09-009 concerning the strong expression of support for the state of Israel in it's battle with terrorist attacks. And the hope that there could be peace between Israel and Palestine.

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February 2, 2009

3 p.m.

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temurlan writes:

What a waste of time.
February 2, 2009

3:02 p.m.

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GoldenKid writes:

These terrorist lovers have no manners or class. They should have 86 him on his head!
February 2, 2009

3:04 p.m.

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LockNLoad writes:

temurian:

You're right. This has nothing to do with job creation. It is purely a political grandstanding tactic.
February 2, 2009

3:05 p.m.

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bobdylanindenver writes:

This isn't a state issue. Our Democratic controlled senate ought to focus on the issues of Colorado.

There's a federal government that is charged with issues beyond our border.
February 2, 2009

3:06 p.m.

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windbourne writes:

Over on DP blog, there is a racists called HotCoffee. I wonder if this is him.
February 2, 2009

3:19 p.m.

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GoldenKid writes:

The Post loves the anti-Israel types and terrorist lovers or they would have banned him. He better stay over there because if he comes on this site he'll get creamed!
February 2, 2009

3:22 p.m.

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blacksho89 writes:

What does this have to do with jobs, taxes, and a $1b budget shortfall? What a waste of time.
February 2, 2009

3:29 p.m.

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Willy writes:

Agree with most of you. The mideast is a national issue. It has no business being part of a State legislative debate. Colorado representives/senators - do the job we pay you to do - take care of Colorado business.
February 2, 2009

3:34 p.m.

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flyboyjoe writes:

Remember this article when you folks vote. As stated, we have so many other problems to worry about - BOOT THEM ALL!
February 2, 2009

3:39 p.m.

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SlouchingTowardBoulder writes:

"As for Foster, she was stunned at the drama surrounding her resolution. She said the language is nearly identical to one the U.S. Senate passed unanimously."

Senator Foster, these people protesting Israel's right to defend herself are your fellow Democrats. Wake up and smell the coffee!
February 2, 2009

3:43 p.m.

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ptorres writes:

Why dont you go to work and create jobs in Colorado. Leave the other problems to the new president of the USA.
February 2, 2009

3:48 p.m.

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jjez writes:

Go Willy!!! Too bad most of them don't read the posts we put here. It's pretty obvious to me that they really don't WANT to do anything about jobs, education, the budget shortfall or the economy because they're wasting time on baloney like THIS! I think the authors of both bills aught to be ousted from office for wasting taxpayer money!
February 2, 2009

3:50 p.m.

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bobby_b writes:

why is the Colorado state legislature debating resolutions on Israel? What a bunch of clowns.
February 2, 2009

4:15 p.m.

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Cowboy63 writes:

There are planes leaving for Israel and Egypt every day. Why doesn't this "hero" get on one and go fight big, bad Israel in the trenches along side Hamas? Answer: that would take REAL commitment?

Just another dime store protester heading downtown for some cheap lunch hour self-righteousness. I guess as long as he's back at home in time for "American Idol" with a fresh new sense of superiority - it was all worth it.
February 2, 2009

4:40 p.m.

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rage_against_the_stupid writes:

I would rather have them waste their time on trivia. If they actually got down to business, we are all in trouble. Government can't create jobs that are economically productive, only the private sector can do this. They can, however, destroy job creation by over regulation and draconian tax policies. As long as the dems focus on age old hatreds, they can't further ruin the economy.
February 2, 2009

5:19 p.m.

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SheikYurBooty writes:

This is just gratuitous diviciveness at the state level. Leave this debate to the Feds.
February 2, 2009

5:21 p.m.

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dwood writes:

It looks like most everyone here agrees, what are these knuckleheads doing wasting my time and tax money debating international issues when they are elected to deal with Colorado issues. DO YOUR JOBS!! Obama and his henchmen will deal with the international issues.... no really, you can trust him on that.
February 2, 2009

5:22 p.m.

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timothyc writes:

Good for him! Someone needs to stand up and make it clear we're not all blindly following the likes of Israel. Irael is a terrorist state. I shouted it at the rally today, and I stand by my words!
February 2, 2009

5:48 p.m.

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Delbert writes:

The Palestinian Pogrom is an affront to all civilization.
Begin the process of impeachment for any state elected official
for wasting time and taxpayer money on such federal issues. They are there for an agenda, counter to the best interest of citizens of Colorado.
Their loyalty is to a foreign power before Colorado.
February 2, 2009

6:42 p.m.

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jbowen43 writes:

The Democrats who introduced this silly bill should be ashamed. Colorado doesn't need a foreign policy and it darned well doesn't need one that supports the rogue government in charge of the state of Israel.
February 2, 2009

7:20 p.m.

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hankzzz writes:

As a moderate on Mid East policy, I resent these elected state officials trying to speak for all of us Coloradans. I would rather they go about the State's business and let the people speak for themselves. There are plenty of appropriate forums for Americans to voice their concerns and the Colorado Senate is not one of them.
February 2, 2009

7:58 p.m.

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eyewitness writes:

Our senators are pretty despicable. They went out of their way to endorse Israel's war crimes in the Gaza Strip. Thank God that people like Dan Winters provide reminders of what people with backbones and moral conscience look like.
February 2, 2009

8:39 p.m.

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flyboyjoe writes:

"timothyc writes:

Good for him! Someone needs to stand up and make it clear we're not all blindly following the likes of Israel. Irael is a terrorist state. I shouted it at the rally today, and I stand by my words!"

GREAT!!! - NOW GET ON A PLANE AND GET THE HELL OUT OF HERE!
February 3, 2009

8:59 a.m.

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harvie writes:

I had posted here on this site, transcripts of the debate on this resolution which was held in our State House on Senate Resolution 09-009 in order to help clarify the nature of elected representatives' positions. These texts have been removed without explanation.

I would like to discuss the transparency policy of both our State Legislature and of the Rocky Mountain News, both of whom might not be best serving the public's interest by setting policy which limits the public's access to means of sharing exactly what is going on in our State Government.

I understand that this is exactly what the debate on this comment thread is about.

I hope the Rocky will explain the reason for the censorship of our elected officials words on this topic.
February 3, 2009

9:47 a.m.

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GladysKravitz writes:

Wow...all this talk; "what does this have to do with Colorado and jobs yada yada yada...." Here is your answer. Check out the Colorado Israel economic delevopment council. http://www.coloradoisrael.org/FAQ.htm

Israel is a world leader in hi-tech, medical advancement, and agricultural progress. Of all the Jew/Israel haters here (dare I say anti-semites), think about that cell phone call you make, or text message you recieve; the technology was invented in Israel. Medical advancements for example in the fields of infertility came from Israeli based companies, and agricultural advancements, which is a major economic industry for Colorado that provides jobs here in our state, also were borne of Israeli innovation. Who has made the desert bloom? Without our states' fundemental support for Israel, yes, jobs could suffer here in Colorado. And check out one more site if you do not believe me.

http://www.israel21c.org/bin/en.jsp?e...

PS: And what does HAMAS export? Bombs, death, violence, squallor, hate, Islamic Fascism, the list goes on.
February 3, 2009

10:05 a.m.

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GladysKravitz writes:

harvie... if you posted what you said, then your post would read "Removed by RMN Staff" which as I scroll up, I do not see any post in this thread from you other than the one above mine. Thus I am skeptypcal of your claim as just another fabrication to propagate further anti-Israel nonsense.
February 3, 2009

11:27 a.m.

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harvie writes:

Gladys- thanks for letting me know that I should see the "removed" text. I need to escalate my complaint to Rocky management. I don't see that flag either, yet I put several posts here at about midnight last night and they are now gone.

You are revealing a telling lack of trust and openness in your potentially suspicious or demonizing comments ("dare I say anti-semitism") and this does not help support your cause or mine to the extent they are the same cause- which may be substantial.

You wrote: "PS: And what does HAMAS export? Bombs, death, violence, squallor, hate, Islamic Fascism, the list goes on."

This oversimplification is almost over the line into hate speech. And no I wouldn't care to say "Arab/Hamas hater", either. We must become meticulously specific in our criticism to keep on a progressive track.

By the way I far prefer the term "Jew/Israel hater" to "anti-semite". I'm glad you chose the former more descriptive term. Please use it wisely.

Here is a sample of what was stated at the one-sided debate yesterday and which was removed by the Rocky:

Colorado Senator Brophy on SR09-009 2/2/2009:
"Israel is truly fighting for its life and they have practiced the philosophy of non violence. They have practiced the philosophy of non violence since 2005 when they pulled out of the Gaza Strip and they have had to suffer thousands and thousands and thousands of missiles being dropped on them without any reply or any response what-so-ever. As we hold a resolution today honoring those who practice non violence I think we should hold up the country of Israel. Israel has patiently waited for the world to stand up and say enough is enough."

I think I have real problems with this statement- but particularly the parts about "practicing non-violence" and "without any reply or response what-so-ever".

I respect and honor lots of Israelis and their magnificent accomplishments. I don't hear anyone questioning their value anywhere and certainly not in Colorado.
February 3, 2009

11:43 a.m.

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harvie writes:

Sorry the above quotation is incorrectly attributed to Senator Brophy. It is actually a quotation of Colorado Senator Harvey. If Rocky editors are reading this, please make the correction.

What Senator Brophy said on Feb 2, 2009 on the floor of the Colorado Senate is, in part, this:
"Members it is wholly appropriate that as a General Assembly we stand up for the democratic state of Israel our lone democratic ally in the Middle East at this time. And I think the second section of this be-it-resolved part- the resolution that expresses our support and unwavering commitment is really the heart of this. Members in 1994 under the Oslo accord the state of Israel gave control of the Gaza strip up to the Palestinian Authority. And then in 2005 ultimately pulled all of their personnel out of that area. Members this isn’t a battle over territory. Israel freely gave that territory up to another peoples. This is actually a battle in the long term war for the very survival -the very right to existence of the state of Israel. A free state that allows both genders to vote. A free state that is a beacon of freedom in the Middle East. "

Unfortunately I have some quibbles with this statement too... Israel removed her troops but did not give sovereignty over Gaza to the Palestinians. Israel continues to try to stay in control of borders, air space, much of the water and electricity supply and even access to food and commercial goods.

The "free state" does not allow all citizens to be represented or treated equally and does not protect them with a Constitution. There is much more to be said, but in any case I again recognize that great works have come out of Israel and these are quite satisfactorily recognized in this country without a Colorado Senate resolution applauding Israeli military operations which used US provided weapons.
February 3, 2009

12:37 p.m.

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GladysKravitz writes:

Harvie...with all due respect...the Palestinians were handed the Gaza over 3 years ago, they chose the path and threw their lot in with the violent Hamas party terrorist group. Thus Israel has every right to control and modulate it's borders to protect itself.

Oversimplification??? Hate speech..?? I have no problems of what god one prays to, what your ethnicity or race is. Hate... well you are correct I hate terrorists like Hamas and make no apologies for it. Likewise I dispise ALL religious extremists groups including the JDL (I faced down Meier Kahane in the 80's), Christian evangelicals like the Facists on the Family and their ilk. Oversimplified? You too have a tell...it's called YUTZ.
February 3, 2009

1:15 p.m.

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Archibald writes:

GladysKravitz,

Hamas certainly has used violence and terror, but on a much smaller and limited scale than say Israel. Hamas won democratic elections partly in response to the corruption of Fatah. Hamas was providing social services to the population while condemning the corruption of the PA , thus increasing its popularity. It's not like they won the elections on a "terrorist" platform.

Israel withdrew from Gaza and transferred many of those settlers to Palestinian land in the West Bank, in violation of international law. Israel retained total control of land, sea, and air access to Gaza, hardly a "full withdrawal". When Hamas won the elections, Israel resorted, apparently with your approval, to collective punishment of the entire population through a blockade, another gross violation of international law.

Hamas has on numerous occasions recognized Israel's right to exist and has called for a settlement to the conflict. This has been rejected by Israel and the United States.

What is your solution to the crisis?
February 3, 2009

1:20 p.m.

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Archibald writes:

Here's a letter I submitted to the News on the senate resolution.

To the Editor:

The Colorado Senate Resolution (SR09-009) dealing with the situation in Gaza will do little to advance the prospects for peace in the region. The resolution professes "strong support" for the Israeli-Palestinian peace process, but then goes on to list only bad things about Hamas and the Palestinians and only good things about Israel and its conduct.

Unless "supporters" of Israel and the Palestinians recognize the wrongs of their side and the grievances of the other side there seems little prospect for movement toward a peaceful resolution of the conflict.

For example, the resolution talks about the ultimate goal of the "terrorists" being the "annihilation" of Israel. Hamas has on numerous occasions offered to negotiate with and recognize the state of Israel. To give one example of many, Haaretz (9/11/08), Israel's leading paper, paraphrased Ismail Haniyeh, the Hamas leader in Gaza as saying, "the Hamas government had agreed to a Palestinian state that followed the 1967 borders and to offer Israel a long-term hudna, or truce, if Israel recognized the Palestinians' national rights."

Reading the resolution one would think that only Israelis are subject to terror. Human Rights Watch did a study in 2007 and found that 2,696 rockets were launced into Israel between Aug. 2005 - May 2007 killing 14 (10 soldiers). In the same time period Israel fired 14,617 artillary shells into Gaza killing 59 people.

The bias of the resolution is no more apparent than in its final resolution to send the document only to Obama and the Israeli government. If this document shows strong support of the peace process why not send it to the Palestinian leadership as well?

Unless the Colorado Senate can come up with a resolution that recognizes wrongs and grievances on all sides it will be unable to contribute to a peaceful resolution of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
February 3, 2009

4:18 p.m.

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GladysKravitz writes:

Archibald..

Hamas chose NOT to extend the "truce" that expired in December and during that truce launched mortar, bombs, shells etc, into Israel. not just limited but thousands. How much would you take day after day of constant barrage of bombs while your children are playing at school and then suddenly having less than 10 seconds to run into a bomb shelter. HAMAS own platform calls for the entire destruction and obliteration of Israel and the Jewish people. The Gazans can elect whomever they wish. Just as the Germans elected the Nazis into power or racists Southerners voted in officials and Jim Crow laws, it does make them any less responsible. Thus if they elect leaders hell bent on Israel's destruction, Israel has every right to defend itself from them.
For all the humanitarian works you claim Hamas provides, they also use schools, hospitals, mosques and civil spaces as launch sites for bombs and attacks against Israeli civilians using their own civilians as human shields placing them at risk, thus having only themselves to blame. Would you tolerate that at your neighborhood public school, city park or place of work? Do you endorse the pimping of those Gaza children whose parents dress them in bomb belts brandishing RPG's and AK47s? Humanitarian indeed!

My solution: an international force to cut off HAMAS weapons smuggling tunnels from Egypt, and until they renounce the destuction of Israel and the Jewish people they will remain in the squallor they enjoy living in. And isn't it interesting how quiet things have been in territories under Palestinian Authority control?
HAMAS is by no means blameless.
February 3, 2009

7:05 p.m.

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Archibald writes:

GladysKravitz,

According to Haaretz (12/22/08), Israel's leading newspaper, Hamas did try to extend the December cease fire. Yuval Diskin, Shin Bet security chief, is quoted as saying, "Make no mistake, Hamas is interested in continuing the truce, but wants to improve the terms. It wants us to lift the seige [on Hamas-ruled Gaza], stop [IDF] attacks, and extend the truce to include Judea and Samaria [West Bank]." This is further confirmed by an IPS report titled "Israel Rejected Hamas Ceasefire offer in December." According to the article "The readiness of Hamas to return to the ceasefire conditionally in mid-December was confirmed by Dr. Robert Pastor" who is with the Carter Center. Pastor says that Hamas would go back to the ceasefire up to early November "if there was a sign that Israel would lift the siege on Gaza."

Why is early November important. That's when Israel arguably broke the ceasefire by killing Hamas members.

The Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center, a pro-Israeli NGO headed by current or former Israeli officers had this to say about the Six month lull:

"Hamas was careful to maintain the ceasfire and its operatives were not involved in rocket attacks. At the same time, the movement tried to enforce the terms of the arrangement on the other terrorist organizations and prevent them from violating it"

The report goes on to say that Hamas ultimately tried to avoid direct confrontation (though it did detain people associated with the rockets) with the groups launching the rockets because it feared being accused of collaborating with Israel. It instead chose to use politics to try to convince the groups to stop firing the rockets.

Regarding the groups firing the rockets, the ITIC notes that these groups were rivals to Hamas and were seeking to undermine Hamas. Also, these groups agreed in principle to the cease-fire in Gaza, but not to actions in the West Bank. These groups claimed they were responding to actions by Israel in the West Bank (extra-judicial executions).

Overall, it was clear the cease-fire was working. From June 19 to November 4 only 20 rockets and18 mortars were launched at Israel compared to the preceding six months when 2,278 rockets and mortar shells were launched (380/month average).(ITIC)

Israel had become more secure, though neither side enjoyed complete security.

So once again I ask why not pursue some of these peace initiatives by Hamas that would deescalate tensions and improve security for all sides?
February 3, 2009

7:51 p.m.

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Archibald writes:

GladysKravitz,

Hamas has repeatedly stated that it would accept a return to the 67' borders, which allows for Israel's existence. The Arab states have had a peace plan on the table since 2002 saying the same. All continuously rejected by Israel and the United States.

Home › Politics › Colorado Government

Senate's Mideast debate divisive

Boulder activist gets tossed after pro-Israeli vote

By Lynn Bartels, Rocky Mountain News (Contact)

Published February 2, 2009 at 2:37 p.m.Updated February 3, 2009 at 5:54 p.m.

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Published February 2, 2009 at 2:37 p.m.
Updated February 3, 2009 at 5:54 p.m.