Illegal immigrant driving 77 mph in triple fatal in Aurora
By April M. Washington, Rocky Mountain News (Contact)
Published September 30, 2008 at 7:19 p.m.
Fymbo said lawyer's crash assessment didn't add up.
Photo by George Kochaniec Jr. © The Rocky
Francis Hernandez appeared in Arapahoe County Court court on Sept. 11.
Photo by Darin McGregor © The Rocky
Aurora Police investigate the scene where a vehicle crashed into the Baskin-Robbins ice cream shop on Havana and Mississippi in Aurora on September 4.
The driver of the Chevy Suburban involved in the Sept. 4 crash that killed two women and a toddler at an ice cream shop ran a red light at 77 mph - making it impossible for the driver of a pickup to avoid the collision, said an expert who reconstructed the accident.
The SUV driver, Francis Hernandez, hit the Mazda pickup at such a high speed and with such force that it pushed the truck more than 100 feet into a Baskin-Robbins ice cream shop, said Donald Fymbo, a licensed insurance adjuster and investigator.
Two women in the pickup truck, driver Patricia Guntharp, 49, of Centennial, and Debbie Serecky, 51, of Aurora, were killed. They were turning left into a Good Times restaurant when they were broadsided by the southbound SUV on South Havana Street, police said. The speed limit on the street is 40 mph.
Marten Kudlis, 3, was killed when the careening wreckage snared him from a window seat at Baskin-Robbins and dragged him to his death.
Hernandez, 23, an illegal immigrant, is being held in the Arapahoe County jail on charges of vehicular homicide, fleeing the scene of the crash and other charges.
"When this lady started to make a left turn across Havana, this guy was a block and half away," Fymbo said. "The way he was tearing down the street there was no way she could have seen him coming at her. He wiped her out."
In Fymbo's opinion: "It's 100 percent his fault."
Fymbo contacted the Rocky Mountain News and invited a reporter to watch him take measurements and make calculations that are the basis of his conclusions. Both visited the accident scene Friday evening.
Fymbo said he is not working for anyone involved in the collision or the investigation. He contacted the newspaper, he said, because he was perplexed by comments made to the Rocky by Kallman Elinoff, the attorney who represents Hernandez. In a recent interview, Elinoff suggested Guntharp was at fault.
"I've been reconstructing accidents for over 20 years, and I've driven around the area and made that same turn before," Fymbo said. "The attorney's assessment of the crash didn't add up. That's why I'm out here."
In a story published Sept. 16, Elinoff charged that Guntharp crossed the double-yellow line and made an illegal left turn 40 yards from the intersection of South Havana Street and East Mississippi Avenue, causing the crash. "This kid (Hernandez) was in the far right lane, and he wasn't expecting this woman to scoot in front of him," Elinoff told the newspaper. "She never looked to see if anyone was coming."
But Fymbo has another viewpoint. "As a scientist all I can tell you is what the physical evidence tells me. . . . There was no way to see him coming."
Elinoff could not be reached Tuesday for comment on Fymbo's findings, which are based, in part, on the force of impact and the distances between vehicles.
"Anyone can draw his or her own conclusion, but the pure science shows (the SUV driver) was driving really fast to shove the pickup 105 feet down the street," Fymbo said. Aurora police spokesman Bob Friel declined to comment on Fymbo's findings.
But police have said that Hernandez was driving between 65 mph and 80 mph when he ran the red light and struck the Mazda.
Police cleared Guntharp of wrongdoing and traffic violations based on their reconstruction of the crash scene and witness accounts. Hernandez, who was born in Guatemala and entered the U.S. illegally in 1991, had been arrested almost 20 times in the past five years and had nine misdemeanor convictions, authorities said.
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September 30, 2008
7:26 p.m.
campesino60 writes:
(This comment was removed by the site staff.)
September 30, 2008
7:40 p.m.
Suggest removal
EZBakeOven writes:
Guess that blows the "she turned in front of my client and caused the crash" defense, eh? 77 mph? I don't even do that on the highway. What a loser. He's going down.
September 30, 2008
8:16 p.m.
Suggest removal
PlayFair writes:
campes: Perhaps Mayor what's-his-name can assign translators to accompany every illegal driver. That way, they could travel in the HOL, too and the Mayor could put another notch in his "green" bed post.
EZ: "He's going down"...He SHOULD be going down...whether or not he will is yet to be seen.
Really, really pathetic this Mayor and this Gov'nr CHOOSE to be blind to this situation. God forbid one of their family members is taken out by someone in this country illegally. Oh, but wait...I forgot...they hire illegals. So there's no danger for them...Heck, they probably invite 'em over for T.giving, right?
September 30, 2008
8:20 p.m.
Suggest removal
spyder writes:
I still want to know the registered owner(s) of that vehicle.
September 30, 2008
8:38 p.m.
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WHATRIGHTS writes:
Can anyone help me to understand what the h*ll.....this illegal immigrant has 17 arrests in the last 5 years, 9 of which were misdemeanors, were the others felonies? How does an illegal immigrant even get 17 arrests, why wasn't he sent packing at #1 or 2 or 3 or 4 or 5 or 6....HE IS HERE ILLEGALLY! Ridiculous. God bless these families!
September 30, 2008
8:39 p.m.
Suggest removal
campesino60 writes:
Playfair: assign translators to accompany every illegal driver?
Not on my tax payor dime! My money is for the bailout!
to EZ" yeah, he's going down, but not without a fight. The driver no longer has a court appointed attorney. He has a "hard money" lawyer. It helps to know the right people.
September 30, 2008
8:49 p.m.
Suggest removal
jaykholt writes:
It should be a simple matter for the police to down load the computer of the vehicles to obtain information on speed and braking. The computers monitor theat information and hold it for a while.
September 30, 2008
8:49 p.m.
Suggest removal
NeilT writes:
Mr. Fymbo,
Thank you for donating your time and expertise to this tragedy. I was appalled by the attorneys’ statement that this was one of the victims fault. I understand it’s his job to defend his criminal client, but you are defending one of the innocent victims without being asked and without compensation. For that, Mr. Fymbo, you are an outstanding human being.
Thank you!
September 30, 2008
8:51 p.m.
Suggest removal
Stan_Weekes writes:
Impoundment Ordinances Now!
Hook them! See who comes for the vehicle.
Detect, Detain, Deport!
September 30, 2008
9:08 p.m.
Suggest removal
jrhino writes:
Maybe when Deggette finishes her explanation on her pro wall street bail out vote she can explain the wisdom of her consistent pro illegal alien voting record. (F career numbers USA.) She shares in the responsibility for the illegal immigrant crime problem.
Vote for someone who lives in the Denver metro area this year not Wahington. George Lilly for US house district 1.
September 30, 2008
9:12 p.m.
Suggest removal
gs writes:
Wasn't a guy just arrested for giving a gun to his suicidal roommate? Isn't giving a car to this guy similar? How about a gun to a violent felon?
September 30, 2008
9:17 p.m.
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theairdog writes:
Ssqured:
The lawyer Elinoff was disbarred for trying to bribe two Douglas County Deputies. He was since re-instated.
http://www.coloradosupremecourt.com/P...
September 30, 2008
9:19 p.m.
Suggest removal
AKdan writes:
In addition to this TRAVESTY - Peter Boyles of KHOW had evidence on his show today Sept. 30th bringing out how these illegals were given illegal 'Sub-Prime' home loans where better-qualified American citizens were TURNED DOWN for the same homes!
September 30, 2008
9:20 p.m.
Suggest removal
NDCowboy writes:
I was hit by an illegal with no insurance and no driver’s license who fled the scene. My insurance ended up paying and my rates went up. I think the city of Denver should drop its sanctuary status and start deporting the ones that commit crimes and cause trouble.
September 30, 2008
9:32 p.m.
Suggest removal
RoyalPayne writes:
Our elected officals did this by not only allowing but encouraging illegals to come to Colorado where very few are ever picked up by ICE. Residents should be screaming to Govr. Ritter and others to stop being a sancutary state, if they refuse to do so vote them out of office and stop greedy business owners from hiring illegals with big fine and possibly jail time.
September 30, 2008
10:34 p.m.
Suggest removal
fifty writes:
Mr. Fymbo is correct and I said as much in this comments section after the article in which Elinoff made his scientifically inaccurate comment. The running of the red light along with excessive speed is the cause of this accident. Had the driver committed only one violation instead of two or more, there would have been no accident.
I'm not fanatical about deporting illegals, but it seems reasonable to deport those who commit criminal acts.
September 30, 2008
11:05 p.m.
Suggest removal
Videobarbs writes:
We need to pick a date folks for the official end of bi-lingual telephone "Push One for English Revolt". If that message is used, we will no longer use that business - which will be hard
with our gov't which is the biggest user of this option, but it will
be a start.
If a product has bi-lingual writing on it - we Americans will not buy it period until only English is printed on the package. We need to tell Kings, Safeway and Albertson's that our $$$ and our language mean business or lost business - their choice.
Then we need to officially open the new "Ellis Island Entry Ports" positioned on our Southern borders. As in the old days when immigrants with TB were turned back, if a Mexican, Horduran, Guatamalan, whatever has a criminal record in the U.S., he/she is turned back, with the promise that he/she can try again in a year.
We need to "deputize" all of our peace officers as sub-agents for ICE. No more of this battle of who's in charge. Word will spread pretty fast within the illegal communities of our police, sheriffs, highway patrol people have this heightened power and it will make an impact.
When I look at the photos of those three victims - they are us; you and me or a friend, sister, grandson and they all died a horrible death due to our government's negligence. We need to do this for them and all the other innocent American citizens who have met a similar fate.
No more finger pointing and no more amnesty. We the American people are going to take back our country!
I
September 30, 2008
11:20 p.m.
Suggest removal
Creative_N_Denver writes:
When an illegal is convicted of a crime, they should first settle their debt in our prisons and then be deported! The government needs to close down any business that hires illegals, period! Anyone giving an illegal free medical, housing, food stamps etc... should pay by serving hard time. These people do not give away these documents for free, the illegal immigrant pays dearly for them. So it being a crime, the person supplying these documents should serve hard time. Stealing is stealing no matter how people want to sugar-coat it.
September 30, 2008
11:49 p.m.
Suggest removal
happymike44 writes:
I cannot believe that no one sees the danger people like this present to our society.
The d.a. needs to charge the owner of the suburban for contributing to this accident by allowing this guy to drive.
We need to deport every illegal alien anchor babies or not.
The country does not need to allow murdering thugs to roam our streets.
We need to close and impound every business that employs illegals.
Also increase the penalty for illegal employment up to and including jail sentences if neccessary.
The penalty should be so stiff anyone who breaks the law will not sleep at night knowing the penalty.
We need to pay a gratutity to anyone reporting an illegal alien employer.
Also we need to penalize landlords who rent to illegals by fining them for the illegal tenants in their complexes.
Otherwise we need to rid ourselves of the murders and dope dealers who creep over our borders.
We need to take our country back from the criminals who laugh at us and degrade our society values.
Also we need to cut off the welfare to all persons not born in the United States.
If they can't get it they won't come here and bye bye to our problem.
October 1, 2008
1:13 a.m.
Suggest removal
BenchBoss writes:
Terrible tragedy indeed. And - not to waver too far but our friends just west of here have a different take on these matters.
{Salt Lake Tribune, Michael Riley}
“Many illegal immigrants feel right at home in Utah.”
“Amid the country’s caustic immigration debate, Utah may be the closest thing these days to an immigrant paradise. Utah is the most Republican state in the country. But the state’s more than 95,000 undocumented immigrants can legally drive with a ‘driving privilege card’. They can, if they graduated from a Utah high school, go to any public university or community college and pay in-state tuition.”
October 1, 2008
5 a.m.
Suggest removal
roger44 writes:
The religious groups are in it for the donations to the collection plate.
October 1, 2008
5:01 a.m.
Suggest removal
angryman1n writes:
I'd just like to point out that a left hand turn at that part of Havana IS illegal. Seems to me that it might not have been an issue if she did as required and merged to the closest, right hand, lane.
But, dude is still at fault for nearly doubling the speed limit.
October 1, 2008
6:40 a.m.
Suggest removal
slocatch writes:
Come on ICE, please work harder and smarter than ever before. Thank you for all you have done and will do. Please consider working in the neighborhoods that pay higher car insurance due to high numbers of uninsured drivers. If the neighborhood also has decimated properties, staylonger.
October 1, 2008
6:41 a.m.
Suggest removal
Sixtysixdeuce writes:
"jaykholt writes:
It should be a simple matter for the police to down load the computer of the vehicles to obtain information on speed and braking. The computers monitor theat information and hold it for a while."
Stop watching crime dramas so much. Freeze frame data is only stored in the PCM if there is a hard fault with the engine or transmission, and it doesn't tell you date and time. If the vehicle is older than '96, it won't store hard faults at all.
October 1, 2008
6:41 a.m.
Suggest removal
vudumom writes:
ssqured, If a citizen is bi-lingual they would understand english, right? Or is it too early for me to think in the morning?
October 1, 2008
6:56 a.m.
Suggest removal
Gonzopozo writes:
Where DID he get the SUV? Criminally negligent enabling.
October 1, 2008
7:04 a.m.
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sheepherder writes:
Where has Artstars been? He was the alien invader apologist...miss that guy!
October 1, 2008
7:30 a.m.
Suggest removal
haloguy628 writes:
angryman1n writes:
I'd just like to point out that a left hand turn at that part of Havana IS illegal. Seems to me that it might not have been an issue if she did as required and merged to the closest, right hand, lane.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Not true. Traffic regs allow turning across double yellow line when turning into driveway or parking lot, which in this case was the Sonic Drive Through which is private property. You can not turn over double line if turning into another street, or if no left turn sign is posted.
I hope that these three deaths will serve as a wake up call, and some serious changes will be instituted regarding catching and deporting illegal immigrants. It is getting out of hand, and I'm sure that word all over Central and South America is that the gringos are stupid and don't do anything even if they catch you. The stupid gringo "humanitarian" concerns are probably a good laugh for them as they have different set of ethics and outlook on fairness. Time to crack down hard.
October 1, 2008
7:56 a.m.
Suggest removal
davies writes:
Well folks, judging from the headline, you can't accuse the RMN of failing to mention the fact that the alleged perpetrator was an illegal alien. Not this time at least.
October 1, 2008
8:04 a.m.
Suggest removal
PRAYFORTHEKIDS writes:
He shouldn't even have an attorney unless he is paying for it himself, he doesn't have the right to a public defender. What a sore excuse for a human being. He needs to rot in hell.
October 1, 2008
8:12 a.m.
Suggest removal
fastnloose writes:
I would like to compare the number of soldiers killed in Iraq over the past 5 years to the number of American citizens killed by ILLEGAL ALIENS.If anyone has access to that info,I bet we all would be shocked.
October 1, 2008
8:21 a.m.
Suggest removal
badbob writes:
Spyder, I agree with you, who owns the vehicle he was driving? He was stopped months earlier driving the same vehicle , it was then impounded and the owners bailed it out and then it was given back to him to drive and it was involved in this accident! Again, who is the owner?
October 1, 2008
8:21 a.m.
Suggest removal
Cowboy63 writes:
fifty writes: "I'm not fanatical about deporting illegals, but it seems reasonable to deport those who commit criminal acts."
Entering this Country illegally IS A CRIMINAL ACT!
These guys already have one strike against them before they are 2 feet inside the borders. They have already shown complete disregard for our laws long before we hear about them.
check it out:
http://www.usillegalaliens.com/impact...
This guy is now just one more statistic for the record.
October 1, 2008
8:23 a.m.
Suggest removal
TnT writes:
This accident as tragic as it is, is not an immigration issue. Throw a stone if you've never driven intoxicated. All fatal accident as much some of would like to think are not caused from illegal immigrants. All this rederic on this being an immigration issue just creates distraction from the real issue, punish employers who hire them. This guy got the same treatment in our court system as everyone else, and will pay the price for being an idiot, but what about the people and the process that put him back on the street? They get off scott free because ther here legally? There are thousands of drivers out there I'm sure with the same record, legal or illegal.The hypocricy of the immigration game is getting ridiculous. We send 1 billion dollars to rebuild Georgia and no one blinks an eye, thousands of illegal immigrants leave poverty and corruption from a bordering country for better life and people think their comming here blind. Believe me some legal employer is waiting for them. How about trying to help rebuild Mexico to keep them there? You don't see Canadians picking vegetables in the US?
October 1, 2008
8:27 a.m.
Suggest removal
incognitoboy writes:
PRAYFORTHEKIDS, you shouldn't have ANY worries! this "lawyer" he got is a real peach!
i'm glad hernandez got elinoff to represent him. he's sure to go to jail now!
it's too bad elinoff's own record wont be admissible at trial, just to show the jury what kind of shyster they've been listening to. After a hearing, his client is getting a cigarette break before the officers haul him off to jail, and this “lawyer” pulls money out of his wallet to get his client released, and the cops he was trying to bribe didn't even arrest him, just reported his misconduct to the bar, and he gets disbarred, even with the great HARVEY STEINBERG representing him! i just LOVE what this "lawyer" said at his reinstatement proceedings to excuse his attempted bribery behavior (excerpted from co. supreme court proceedings):
“Elinoff, in testimony before the PDJ and Hearing Board, characterized
his conduct as a joking effort to show his client that he was going to jail and
that nothing would prevent the detectives from transporting him immediately.
Elinoff also admitted, however, that if one of the detectives had accepted the
funds offered, he would have reported the “bribe” to the police department with
the anticipation that the detective would have been arrested.”
(i’ll bet the cops wished they’d arrested him on the spot after hearing THAT!)
"And just as a joke I said -- because I thought my client was
watching, you know, because he was insisting on not going to jail -
- I said, you know, let’s -- why don’t we go ahead and forget this,
like an insider joke, like, I was one of the cops. It was just one of
those goofy -- you know, because I felt like the boundaries had
kind of melted between myself and the officers. I liked them. I was
having a good time. I was feeling pretty good. I thought the
officers liked me. We were getting along."
yeah…. goofy. that’s one word. here’s another: CRIMINAL!
and another: OFFENSIVE!
and lawyers wonder why people hate them.......
(maybe at trial, he can get hernandez to say: 'and just as a joke, i was speeding, you know, and trying to make it thru the red light, like an insider joke, like i was at one with the red light, like the boundaries had kind of melted between my actions and law-abiding good sense'…..)
"The People contend that Elinoff’s actions constituted an act which
violated the criminal laws of this state, namely bribery, pursuant to §18-8-
302(1)(a), 6 C.R.S. (1998), and therefore violated C.R.C.P. 241.6(5). They
further contend that his conduct violated The Colorado Rules of Professional
Conduct (“Colo. RPC”) 8.4(h)(engaging in any other conduct that adversely
reflects on the lawyer’s fitness to practice law)."
i think that says it all, right there…
much thanks to theairdog @ 9:17 sept 30 for the supreme court link.
October 1, 2008
8:34 a.m.
Suggest removal
JustSayin writes:
Oops - attention span for the financial crisis must have been reached - time for the RMN to dredge up and re-offer this popular old chestnut with some minor changes in order to rile up the rabble again.
October 1, 2008
8:44 a.m.
Suggest removal
Cowboy63 writes:
JustSayin - So you're saying illegal immigration is no longer relevant to our society and no longer warrants discussion?
check the numbers:
http://www.usillegalaliens.com/impact...
October 1, 2008
8:44 a.m.
Suggest removal
badbob writes:
Ssqured, I thought the same thing but I also thought that the RMN came out later and said that her family didn't own it?
October 1, 2008
8:51 a.m.
Suggest removal
datbinnurick writes:
Hey wait a minute - don't go after the owner of the SUV - how the heck should he know whether this guy was here legally or not? The guy came here as a kid - what 5 yrs old?!? Yo guys trying to tell me that you inspect all of your friends paperwork - make sure it is legit before you let them borrow your car??? Please! Let stick with the real problem - 20 arrests and he is still here! Big problem...
October 1, 2008
8:58 a.m.
Suggest removal
MileHighPatriot writes:
Hmm... I read through all those posts and not one sympathetic blogger. Cool.
October 1, 2008
9:18 a.m.
Suggest removal
Dick_Tater writes:
Hey Ridder, you dill weed! Keep stalling and telling us you don't know how this happened. I don't need to gather a five star panel to see the obvious. Keep on coddling illegals and making this a sanctuary city. I bet the families who just lost loved ones would be willing to pay a little more for lettuce. I read where ditter is wanting to stall and not make any statements on this until after the election. Politics at its finest.
October 1, 2008
9:34 a.m.
Suggest removal
KelcyCo writes:
Would people please stop trying to make this an issue about illegal immigration. It isn`t. He has been in this country since 1991. He did not "enter" illegally. He was four. He was brought here illegally. For all intents and purposes he was raised as an American. He no doubt does not perceive himself as not American. He was four when he got here.
What is germane is that this is an irresponsible 23 year old who has repeated problems with the law over the last five years (probably before then too but he was a juvenile then). No where does this or any of the other articles tell us whether any of these encounters with law enforcement include vehicle violations. I bet they do.
This accident is symptomatic of how we do not adequately deal with people like this. No doubt on this day there were similar accidents all over the country. How many times do we read of a fatal accidents that involve repeat DUI offenders? Too many to count.
We should keep our eye on the real ball which is how to deal with these people to get them off the road after the first incident and not wait for deaths to occur.
October 1, 2008
9:48 a.m.
Suggest removal
Dick_Tater writes:
KelcyCo,
This moron had almost 20 years to be able to go through the immigration process but did not. He knew he was not here legally and lived his life that way. He used multiple aliases trying to avoid prosecution, drove without insurance and a license.
This accident is not symptomatic, the accident is the result of many years of coddling illegals and allowing them to roam the streets when they should have been locked up and/or deported long ago.
You have also improperly used the word germane. Germane means closely or significantly related.
October 1, 2008
9:55 a.m.
Suggest removal
Cowboy63 writes:
KelcyCo - "We should keep our eye on the real ball which is how to deal with these people to get them off the road after the first incident and not wait for deaths to occur."
You deal with it by deporting them the first offense, throwing them in jail the second offense, etc.
Make being in the state illegally a Felony (rather than a misdemeanor as it is now) and the system will be forced to deal with it. Once a person commits a felony, then a whole different set of parameters kick in legally.
Misdemeanors (agricultural trespass) just give officials an excuse to catch and release these guys back into society.
http://www.usillegalaliens.com/impact...
October 1, 2008
10:16 a.m.
Suggest removal
BigSky182 writes:
ssqured writes:
videobarbs -
Great plan. Tell me what you would do for OUR bi-lingual Hispanic American Citizens?
ssqured - OUR bi-lingual Hispanic American Citizens have no problem communicating in English.
October 1, 2008
10:19 a.m.
Suggest removal
Hola writes:
This guy should have been deported. Then these women and that kid would still be alive. If politicians were more concerned about people and not business and political correctness, this would not have happened. Blood is on their hands.
October 1, 2008
10:27 a.m.
Suggest removal
FlyfishDude52 writes:
ssqured, the Mexican government is, indeed, at fault. They, through recent history, have time after time exhibited blatant corrupt actions against their own citizenry. How can anyone blame those poor folks for wanting to get away. The US just happens to be the closest, best bet for them. That does not make illegal entry to the US OK..
The US Congress has exacerbated the issue by continually increasing minimum wage levels, prompting US manufacturers to move production facilities off-shore or across the border. I suggest that we make the tarriffs so stiff that manufacturing will move back to the 50 states, thereby correcting many inequities and deficits that have taken a serious toll on the US economy.
I, also, liked videobarbs suggestion. Let me know when and where and I, and my family, who already practice a form of this, will be on board 100%!!!
October 1, 2008
10:31 a.m.
Suggest removal
Romanesco writes:
"Throw a stone if you've never driven intoxicated"
Throwing my stone now, tyvm.
October 1, 2008
11:14 a.m.
Suggest removal
gary writes:
Yes. I get that. So, are we going to dictate that our "bi-lingual Hyspanic American Citizens" must adapt their culture and language to English only? By my read of Videobarbs comments, that's apparently what his/her intention is. Spanish and English are not the only languages imprinted on product packaging sold in this country.
ssqred
No, you do not get anything....
Yes, they need to "adapt their culture and language to English"
My forefathers came here from Germany...what number do I push for German? or for that matter...French, Portugese, or any other language?
Gee, my realatives "adapted their culture and language to English"
Something that most illegals do not do.
Enforce our immigration laws now.
NO rewriting....NO amnesty..
Just law enforcement NOW!
Nuff Said!
October 1, 2008
11:19 a.m.
Suggest removal
Romanesco writes:
"Spanish and English are not the only languages imprinted on product packaging sold in this country."
No, but one doesn't see public notices printed in German, French, Korean, etc. Look in an RTD bus--most of the signs have their Spanish equivalent.
The Colorado Elections department (http://www.elections.colorado.gov/DDe...) has forms in Spanish, but not any other non-English language, and it's wrong.
We're pandering to those who speak Spanish ask their primary language.
October 1, 2008
11:19 a.m.
Suggest removal
Willy writes:
ssqured writes:
TnT -
You write; "How about trying to rebuild Mexico to keep them (immigrants) there?"
Well, the United States just recently gave Mexico $450B to help fight drugs and drug related crime in Mexico. The United States has and continues to fund a number of programs which directly support a variety of Mexican aid needs. And, virtually every large American manufacturer currently has Mexican operations which have created tens of thousands of jobs in Mexico. Exactly what additional assistance to the Mexican government should the United States be offering?
Well, one suggestion - Mexico's telecommunications infrastructure is a mess. Instead of dumping all of that money into fighting drugs (which probably ends up in the pockets of corrupt officials), how about rebuilding their telecommunications systems so that some of the Call Center jobs that are going to India and SE Asia, go to Mexico. Maybe the additional jobs would keep a few home. (Don't start the "keep those jobs in the US" rant - it ain't gonna happen)
October 1, 2008
11:23 a.m.
Suggest removal
Romanesco writes:
(Don't start the "keep those jobs in the US" rant - it ain't gonna happen)
It's not a rant, it's a valid concern. When your job moves overseas, let me know how good you feel about it.
Let's worry about the United States infrastructure!!
October 1, 2008
11:24 a.m.
Suggest removal
opinionatedcolo writes:
Once again, we hear from morons who only believe that fairness applies to people they approve of. For duncan, if you are in this county illegally, you are apparently fair game for summary execution. Fair trials are our culture and if you are too ignorant to understand that, look at the constitution, specfically the parts about Due Process of Law. If you do not agree with the American form of government, then maybe you need to find a nice dictatorship to live in. Try China they, like you, do not believe in individual rights.
October 1, 2008
11:55 a.m.
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timeandagain writes:
MAYOR HICKENLOOPER PLEASE BEGIN ENFORCEMENT OF INITIATIVE 100 (IMPOUND CARS OF UNLICENSED DRIVERS!) IMMEDIATELY! STOP IGNORING THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE!!
THE DENVER VOTERS PASSED IT ON AUGUST 12!! WHERE IS THE ENFORCEMENT MAYOR?? CITY COUNCIL?? DENVER PD??
BY CODE, YOU HAVE 7 DAYS to certify AND begin enforcement!!!!
The most vocal opponents of Initiative 100 were:
Mayor John Hickenlooper - 720-913-1311
Councilman Rick Garcia - 303-458-4792
Councilwoman Judy Montero - 303-458-8960
Councilman Paul Lopez - 303-935-1274
Denver's elected officials MUST ENFORCE THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE!!! Please take a minute to call each of these shills and DEMAND ENFORCEMENT OF INITIATIVE 100!!
WHERE IS THE NEWS COVERAGE OF THE NON-ENFORCEMENT ROCKY and POST??
Denver Post Newsroom - 303-954-1201
Rocky Mtn. News Newsroom - 303-954-5201
October 1, 2008
12:01 p.m.
boom writes:
(This comment was removed by the site staff.)
October 1, 2008
12:07 p.m.
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fastnloose writes:
Our government is not responsible for the quality of life in Mexico.It is responsible for the people who are in THIS COUNTRY illegally.Congress do what you have to,to keep your citizens safe! Nuff Said.
October 1, 2008
12:09 p.m.
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Devil_Dog writes:
TnT
" How about trying to help rebuild Mexico to keep them there? You don't see Canadians picking vegetables in the US?"
Are you crazy? The Canadians haven't screwed up their own country beyond repair so they feel no need to invade ours. Maybe the good citizens of Mexico should consider making their country better instead of making ours worse. I'd be willing to help someone who is courageous enough to stand up for himself and fight for a better life by trying to improve his own country. But coming here illegally and demanding that we accommodate your culture and your rights and pay for your housing, food, and medical care, while you send your tax free income back to Mexico to support the rest of your family until they can get over here to take up more of my tax dollars is not asking for my help. It is stealing from me. And the politicians who are aiding and abetting this crime are stealing from me also and should be put in prison right along with the rest of the thieves in this world.
October 1, 2008
1:10 p.m.
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Heidi writes:
ssqured,
I nominate you to arrange a meeting with Carlos Slim and tell him to help his country because we are done doing it!
October 1, 2008
1:41 p.m.
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Heidi writes:
Ah,
So Mr. Slim is just like our rich business execs. More interested in his own wealth than his patriotism.
I can only afford the $15-$20 bottles of wine!
October 1, 2008
1:56 p.m.
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ron65ron writes:
Oh come on now, we are going to blame all the illegals in our country for this one illegal in Aurora? OF COURSE WE SHOULD!
For Pete's sake, if you complain against the illegals you are called politically incorrect and are a racist. I call it being an American.
How could this person even get a car registered in the state of Colorado? Was teh DMV involved as well? Did this guy have a visa that expired and then he never left the country? Or did him come here illegally alltogether?
Major crackdown on illegal aliens has to happen. Leave no stone unturned. American citizens die and no one cares. Illegal person gets in trouble and then everyone cares "poor illegal person, just here to make a better living". Give me a break, illegals are here for one reason, and I hope we all know that reason!
Just look at the extreme disatrous affects illegal immigration has had on our country. We are not better off with them in our country.
Mr. President, Mr Governor, Mr Mayor...Make these illegal aleins go back to thier country of origin. Can you hear your own countrymen speaking?
October 1, 2008
2:12 p.m.
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MileHighPatriot writes:
Finally...
KelcyCo. You're a blind idiot. Hahaha
Here's why:
It IS about the current illegal immigration LACK OF ENFORCEMENT. If ICE or ANY other law enforcement were really serving the people of the United States, they would have deported this guy before he committed his first crime... not to mention whoever brought him over here.
This is a portrait of what illegal immigration is doing to communities around the country. Lack of a properly secured border, lack of enforcement of deportation has cumulatively caused this situation.
It's not about he or she is here for a 'better life'. It's irrelevant because the bad sneak in with the good. This is a rather crude comparison, but it's like being in Iraq and not telling who're the dudes planting plotting against you. Sure, illegals don't necessarily plot conspiracies against us (minus La Raza and MEChA), they simply distribute drugs, drive like they're on the ranch, and plow into women and little kids with their trucks.
October 1, 2008
2:16 p.m.
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Heidi writes:
I'm not so sure Carlos Slim is a great guy. And I don't think I ever want to meet him. This brings to mind the movie, Man on Fire. Did you ever see that? I loved it, but it was sad. Dakota Fanning reminds me so much of my niece.
My stepmother is doing better every day, thank you. She is about to take a trip with my dad to NM.
Hmmm....this sounds too much like an email. What are we supposed to be discussing? Oh yea, bad stuff. Very bad, infuriating stuff.
October 1, 2008
2:24 p.m.
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riosmom6 writes:
I whole-heartedly support deportation, but it's not a panacea to this problem. Deportation is no guarantee that the guy isn't going to come back over the border within 24 hours. I've seen it happen time and time again. We need stronger border enforcement.
I'd like to point out that the illegal in this case, has been in the USA since he was 6 years old. He learned his bad ways here.
October 1, 2008
2:27 p.m.
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MileHighPatriot writes:
... from relaxed attention toward illegals, and empowerment from political correctness, riosmom
October 1, 2008
2:28 p.m.
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Willy writes:
Romanesco writes:
(Don't start the "keep those jobs in the US" rant - it ain't gonna happen)
It's not a rant, it's a valid concern. When your job moves overseas, let me know how good you feel about it.
Let's worry about the United States infrastructure!!
Roman - I get monthly stats on outsourcing contracts. 75% of all large outsourcing contracts are won by AMERICAN COMPANIES. Do they take some of the jobs overseas? - Yes, but the magnitude is greatly exagerated by politicians and other fear mongers.
ssqured - I know about old Slim - He will never upgrade the infrastructure, because he can profit more by having it a mess and the Mexican government will never stand up to him to force the issue or nationalize the industry.
October 1, 2008
2:31 p.m.
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Cowboy63 writes:
Sorry, folks. Until the politicians can figure out how to get rich deporting illegals it just isn't going to happen.
October 1, 2008
2:34 p.m.
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Willy writes:
BTW sssured - If you attend a stockholder meeting and run into Mr. Slim, please ask him to pay his bills. They owe my company about a quarter million that is now 180 days past due.
October 1, 2008
2:45 p.m.
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riosmom6 writes:
MHP - You have a point there. In a way, I think that's true with much of our criminal justice system. The system is great at slapping the hands of criminals. In my opinion, no one wants to be "unpopular with the masses" - they're afraid of losing the vote. There's too much plea bargaining going on. Let's support those who do take a firm stance, and vote out the ones who don't.
October 1, 2008
2:48 p.m.
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Heidi writes:
"Gee, sounds as if he has something in common with our very own, home grown CITIZEN criminals. What's the difference?"
He was probably hanging out with those illegal alien criminals! To be serious, I agree with MHPatriot as well.
October 1, 2008
2:51 p.m.
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riosmom6 writes:
I have several questions regarding Hernandez and his family, but haven't been able to find any answers. Perhaps someone on this post knows. Since Hernandez was 6 when he came to the US, he obviously came with his parents or other family. He now has a hired attorney. Who's paying his bills? What does his family do for a living? What was his occupation? Do they own a business? Is ICE breathing down their necks? Any one know the answers?
October 1, 2008
3:01 p.m.
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somewhatintelligent writes:
the bottom line is; this is three counts of first degree murder, and it should prosecuted as such. unfortunately our lawmakers, judges, and district attorney's don't have the heart to send "people" like this to death row.
October 1, 2008
3:06 p.m.
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Heidi writes:
"I don't believe Kellman Elinoff has many cards to play in this case. What say you?"
He's probably got a hand full of jokers! It sounds as though he doesn't have much to lose if he loses the case and a lot to lose if he wins!
October 1, 2008
3:21 p.m.
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Willy writes:
ssqured "None of my biz, but does Telemex purchase network blocks from your company?"
Nope - Professional Services. They outsource to us. :)
October 1, 2008
3:28 p.m.
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PointRocky writes:
Why isn't Barack Obama saying a word about illegal aliens such as Francis Hernandez?
Since Barack Obama wants them ALL LEGALIZED after he is elected President?
Not a word right Barack Obama or John McCain another idiot
that pushed for amnesty.
We are in trouble Americans!
http://www.numbersusa.com (for free faxes to your Reps)
October 1, 2008
3:29 p.m.
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riosmom6 writes:
Thanks, ssqured. I knew about Elinoff, but hadn't thought about rights groups taking up his cause. Maybe Elinoff has made it his own cause, but not likely. I'm interested to know more Hernandez' family, as we've only heard about the girlfriend and two kids.
October 1, 2008
3:47 p.m.
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Willy writes:
They always pay - just 6-8 months late after we threaten to pull the plug. We have built that into our rates.
October 1, 2008
4:01 p.m.
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Brittanicus writes:
Don't let your corrupt Politician, Governor, Mayor,elected officials, church or Business opportunists destroying your community, by flooding them with illegal immigrant poverty and criminal aliens.
SIGN JUDICIAL WATCH PETITION, (www.judicialwatch.org) TO RESCIND ALL 'SANCTUARY CITIES & STATES. This is a legal reputable organization
www.sanctuarybusters.org/?source.
PASS THIS ON! COPY, PASTE & DISTRIBUTE FREELY
October 1, 2008
4:09 p.m.
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SanctuaryCity writes:
An illegal arrested 20 times in last five years. Sounds like an under performer.
October 1, 2008
4:36 p.m.
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buffsblg writes:
I do know Ellinoff and he is a stand up and very smart man. Unlikely he took this for the publicity, as he is smart enough to know that he will get savaged by some of the lawyer haters out there. He is a believer that people deserve a fair trial, so he may be doing this on principle. He, after all, has literally fought against dictators seeking to destroy Israel and he understands the idea of civil liberties better than most on here. He will put it to the DA to prove this case if it comes to that. I know that people on here think that "illegals" do not deserve rights, but the constitution says otherwise.
His disbarment was for an incredibly stupid act that he claimed was meant as a joke. For the record he was never criminally prosecuted. His reinstatement came after he went to Israel, served in the armed forces there and did some good work with crime victims. I know people like to slam lawyers, but he is a good man with principles and ethics.
October 1, 2008
8:25 p.m.
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Kukulcan writes:
Each side will undoubtedly have "experts" supporting their version of events. This is common in legal proceedings, per my experience.
Apparently, this dude blew a red light, while doing 77 mph, crashed into the victims vehicle--and then FLED THE SCENE!
I just hope the TRUTH comes out and that JUSTICE is served!
That said; While I don't think this case is really about immigration, it certainly does raise questions about how an illegal immigrant can be ARRESTED 19 times and still be roaming our streets!
Granted this defendant was brought here as a child, but this is OUTRAGEOUS!
Finally, it really makes me question my belief in a benevolent GOD when a 3 year is cut down like this...
October 1, 2008
8:30 p.m.
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Kukulcan writes:
@ PointRocky
John McCain also favors legalization.
There is no real disagreement between Sen Obama and Sen McCain on how to resolve this issue--once and for all--LEGALIZATION!
After they are LEGALIZED they can get legitimate drivers licenses, social security cards, etc--and pay their share of taxes!
Nevertheless, its freaking OUTRAGEOUS that Francis Hernandez was ARRESTED 19 times and was still roaming our streets freely!
October 2, 2008
7:09 a.m.
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slocatch writes:
We are all saying the same thing, the important issue is how do we get the issue surfaced to the world prior to election day? I have not heard one squeek about it. We know that each is avoiding it, and we know it is a very important issue. For sure the RMN is not going to help. Another one killed today crashing into a shed, I bet you an illegal.
October 2, 2008
10:57 a.m.
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redsoxfan1 writes:
KelcyCo writes:
Would people please stop trying to make this an issue about illegal immigration. It isn`t. He has been in this country since 1991. He did not "enter" illegally. He was four. He was brought here illegally.
That is still an illegal entry. You tell us to not read into the story, yet you assume that this guy has a thought in his head about being American. Who's fooling who? He is not and never will be an American. If he was brought here at age 4 yrs., then the people that brought him are illegal as well. GO get them and deport. If you were born in this country to illegals then you are still illegal. NO citizenship for you either. This is why we need the military in full "locked and loaded " status on OUR borders.Defend this country against all enemies "foreign and domestic". If you do not cross at an approved checkpoint then you are liable for your own life.
Tell ICE to uphold the laws onthe books. I have heard that ICE will sometimes not take into custody illegals for a number of reasons,usually having to do with jurisdiction. Don't federal laws outweigh local laws? If not how does the DEA seize drugs on a local level. I must be most uninformed.