Planned Parenthood gains from Palin e-mail campaign

By Ed Sealover, Rocky Mountain News

Published September 23, 2008 at 7:36 p.m.

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Photo by Judy DeHaas © The Rocky

Katie Groke Ellis, Action Fund Representative for Planned Parenthood of the Rockies, laughs while discussing the tens of thousands of responses to a mass e-mail asking people to stop complaining about Sarah Palin's policies and send Planned Parenthood a $10 donation in Palin's name.

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Comments

September 23, 2008

7:51 p.m.

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rage_against_the_stupid writes:

The left will always tithe to their sacred cause. Let us bow our heads and give to this political, whoops, I mean religious cause.
September 23, 2008

7:52 p.m.

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Wagthedog1001 writes:

"Palin is not only pro-life but opposes abortion even in the case of rape or incest."

This is not right. She even made rape victims PAY for their own rape kits to prove what had happened. Do you want this kind of person your next Vice-President?

Vote Obama/Biden 2008
September 23, 2008

7:56 p.m.

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WHATRIGHTS writes:

I sure hope these funds are used to educate and provide the needed contraceptives and not to encourage abortion. It's no ones place to judge anyone, that happens after this world, but I hardly think that the issue is funny and find it disturbing that one would laugh at the promotion of such a traumatic experience for a woman. It's actually sad, Planned Parenthood please do not let this woman Ellis councel anyone.
September 23, 2008

8:19 p.m.

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mama_marie writes:

rape and incest cases are only a small part of the issue, seeing as only 1% of all abortions are from rape and incest. Abortion is the issue - murdering innocent babies that would have otherwise made it is the issue.
September 23, 2008

8:41 p.m.

bph writes:

(This comment was removed by the site staff.)
September 23, 2008

9:09 p.m.

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INC writes:

bph, thanks for the shock, I wonder if you would explain why you put that photo up. My 9 year old is screaming and refuses to go to sleep.
here is an even bigger tragedy.

http://www.thememoryhole.org/war/coff...

sure let them grow up knowing what is is to be unwanted. Only to become a flag draped coffin.
September 23, 2008

9:13 p.m.

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chris33 writes:

Chris Wallace exposes Palin's lies.

Watch this great video....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viC6Kt...
September 23, 2008

9:40 p.m.

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EZBakeOven writes:

I received this email and thought it was terrific. Pro-choicers are never going to go away and will always support any woman who chooses to do what is best for HER, whether it is to have a baby or not. We will always advocate for birth control and sex education. We are PRO woman! Education is empowering and we want women to understand all of their choices before they decide what is best for THEM. We would never require a woman to birth a child resulting from incest or rape or ask them to pay for their own rape kit. We are here for the women who are already here on earth. If you don't understand that, then you probably don't have a uterus.
September 23, 2008

9:45 p.m.

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WHATRIGHTS writes:

News Flash Malachi- woman die having abortions here, they hemorrage after the fact, some woman face never being able to have children when it does fit into the model after having abortions. The issue is that too many find this as acceptable form of birth control. I side with Skybreeder, take the precautions before hand....all parties, we'll have even less abortions and maybe disease too.
September 23, 2008

10:01 p.m.

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INC writes:

Skyebeader,
1) I was reading the news paper with her before she goes to bed. as we usually do. She is far more intelligent than the gop's choice for VP. My daughter even laughs at mcSame for not knowing where Spain is.
2) we were having a great time laughing at the Irony of the article and people donating on Sarahs behalf.
3) when I was in that ALL volunteer Army, 60% of my fellow soldiers were unwanted. and the military was their only option.

so you have a good night "dreaming" about fat knees behind ears. My son and daughter know they both are wanted and were PLANNED for. Not forced upon my wife and I Before we could provide for them.
September 23, 2008

10:02 p.m.

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me2 writes:

I hope this gets into every newspaper in America and the donations flood in.

Precautions fail. I have two "pill" grandsons. I was a "diaphragm' baby. Men usually have no clue about these things.
September 23, 2008

10:25 p.m.

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awakenedcitizen writes:

When my kids were 12-13, I checked out some excellent books at planned parenthood for them. Books about how your body changes during puberty, feeling awkard as your body seems to change daily, menstration, we*t dreams, mast*bn--I talked to them also and they were never afraid to ask me anything. This day and age, parents who think their kids aren't getting pressure to be sexually active are in denial. The books I got and the talks we had covered how to say no, how to get out of a situation in which you are uncomfortable, and how to avoid getting into situations that are dangerous. The effects of alchohol and drugs on inhibition....

The right has hijacked "right to choose" and made it into "we all want abortions"; that is simply not so. A person can be pro-choice and anti-abortion personally.

McCain-Palin would set our country back more than 30 years in womens rights, civil rights, GLBT and God knows what else. Back to the '50's. I'll bet Palin even calls the women who work for her, "girls".
September 23, 2008

10:36 p.m.

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awakenedcitizen writes:

whatsright, abortion should not be used as birth control....but I have to tell you malachi is right. If you make abortion illegal, you dont STOP it, you just push it to knitting needles, coat hangers, back alley abortionists...

Palin is even against teaching teens about birth control.

All you "self-control" advocates; if your teen goes to a party where there is booze and makes out with their boy friend/girl friend, and there are no parents home, without planning on it, "something" could happen. Are you going to throw your child out of the house as Sarah did? (she sent Bristol away to a realtive's home she was so mad)

Enough for tonight.
September 23, 2008

10:40 p.m.

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Otter writes:

Three cheers for death!
September 23, 2008

10:41 p.m.

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jbowen43 writes:

Good. Planned Parenthood is a great organization that does good work.
September 23, 2008

10:47 p.m.

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DenverTea writes:

Malchi Constant: excellent words of wisdom and well put. It is no ones right to tell a woman if she should or shouldn't have a baby - especially in cases of rape and incest. Thank you for your articulation of truth and justice
September 23, 2008

10:50 p.m.

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DenverTea writes:

awakened citizen, I also appreciate your well thought comments and replies. Thank you both for articulating in ways that I want to, but am not equipped to at the moment.
September 23, 2008

11:10 p.m.

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INC writes:

three cheers for sarah palins radical hard core beliefs. so as a joke she is getting thousands of thank you cards for being a nut.
And Planned parenthood is getting funds to help in the good work that they do.
Possibly some of the money can go to pay for the rape kits sarah palin wants to charge victims for.

Good news all around.
September 23, 2008

11:18 p.m.

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ssohara writes:

A couple of corrections (please check factcheck.org to verify) - Palin never signed a law to charge victims for rape kits. The law was enacted by the state legislature before she was elected. Similar laws are in effect in other states, including, I believe, llinois, where Obama was in the state Senate. Palin has said that rape victims should not have to pay for rape kits - during her tenure as Mayor of Wasilla, no one was billed for a rape kit. I personally think charging the victim for a rape kit is wrong. Charging the rapist would be OK with me, however.

Also, Palin's daughter went to public school and learned about contraceptives. However, many teens, despite learning about contraception, mess up. I went to a college prep school where the kids definitely understood how contraceptives worked, and a couple of girls still got pregnant.

My personal viewpoint - I'm a pro-life Libertarian. I was pro-choice when I was younger, but have become more pro-life, particularly since sonograms, etc., show such details. However, I think the abortion debate is not black/white.

Most of us are not as extremely pro-life as Palin - for example, I think abortion should be allowed for rape, incest, the life of the mother, etc. Many of my friends who say they are pro-choice actually have a more nuanced view, as well - some are against abortions after the first trimester unless the mother's life is in danger. Others are OK with late-term abortion, but favor parental notification laws, etc.

The early feminists (Susan B. Anthony, etc.) were pro-life. They saw the rights of the mother intertwined with the rights of her child.

I think most women can agree on certain things - we don't want abortion used as birth control, we hate violence against women and children, we'd like women to have options with re. to contraception, we want to make the adoption process easier so that couples who want children can work with women who can't keep their babies but don't want abortion.

Frankly, if the point of the debate is to increase options for women and to protect them, then there are many areas where Planned Parenthood could work with pro-life groups. For example, many churches help single women who get pregnant but don't want to abort their child - they provide both emotional and physical support for these women. This is a choice some women make, and if the goal is to honor women's choices, then Planned Parenthood could work with these church groups for these women.

I realize that many people think the pro-choice and pro-life people are all diametrically opposed, but the reality is that probably 90% of people are actually somewhere in the middle - not fanatically pro-life or pro-choice.

I'm not interested in bashing a particular candidate or people who disagree with me. I would like people with differing views to treat each other with respect and work together to find the common ground. I think that is much more productive.
September 23, 2008

11:24 p.m.

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INC writes:

Skyebeader, good for you!!! I also am a member of a gold star family. I Served to repay my ROTC scholarship. I with other options, left to pursue a Peaceful life. more than once I saved the lives of persons like you. (during peacetime) and kept Good men out of Leavenworth in the process.
Like I said for 60% or the majority of my men, had no other option other than crime, than to join the military. I am Old enough to have served with those whom were born before Roe v wade. Like you they hated heir mothers and fathers and the feeling was mutual.

warmongers like you forget the ultimate purpose of the military is to secure the PEACE here at home. not fight and die in wars for profit.
September 23, 2008

11:34 p.m.

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bph writes:

INC Go read your 9 year old a bedtime story. suggest removal to suppress an opposing view or point
September 23, 2008

11:37 p.m.

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bph writes:

If I run a stop sign and hit your car and cause you to have a miscarraige on your way to the abortion clinic why should I be charged with manslaughter?
September 24, 2008

12:17 a.m.

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INC writes:

bph,
she is in bed sleeping with an even greater hate for your brand of shock politics. speaking of miscarriages, why claim that photo is an abortion we all have aright to see, yet it was of a stillborn. not an aborted fetus?? Also if you get your way, politically speaking would you charge God with a crime for each miscarriage? or just the mother?
Please actually read Genesis 2:7 then get back to me when you learn when GOD says life begins.
September 24, 2008

12:24 a.m.

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ConservativeCO writes:

Such political showmanship. Anyone who takes even a minute defending or chastising Roe v. Wade is wasting there time. It will not be overturned in this decade.

So feminists, find a new fight. Why don't you start looking at how Obama pays his female staffers on average 78% of what he pays the males.

Now that is something that can and should be changed. Focus your energy on that.
September 24, 2008

1:46 a.m.

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GladysKravitz writes:

Hey everyone...on Nov. 4th most Americans will have something that Sarah Palin would deny her own daughter...and every child....AN INFORMED CHOICE!
September 24, 2008

3:28 a.m.

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gwats writes:

I'm pretty sure Sarah Palin won't be pleased. Good. maybe NOW she'll tell her husband to obey that subpoena.
September 24, 2008

4:12 a.m.

Dusty_Piniella writes:

(This comment was removed by the site staff.)
September 24, 2008

4:17 a.m.

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Dusty_Piniella writes:

Malachi

You say women die in draconian countries when they get abortions? Thats just fine with me. They killed an innocent life, premeditatedly murdered, if you will. The penalty for premeditated murder is death. So I guess that it works itself out...also saves taxpayer money from not having a murder trial.

Right On!!
September 24, 2008

4:36 a.m.

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LOUIE writes:

Planned Parenthood, how is it "planned" if your going to abort your mistake? Lets see, I don't support abortion, I don't support homosexuality or gay marriage, I don't support gun control. Because I support unions and the American worker, I am caught between 2 partys, neither representing my beliefs but what I have to pick between two evils. I always supported the democrats for their pro-union and support of the American worker, but the western democrat supports illegal laborers as I witnessed Democrat Pena at a rally for illegal laborers, democrat Hinckenlooper's restaurants employing illegal labor, democrat Ritter plea bargaining so illegals can go free to rape our citizens. Republicans author NAFTA, democrats assist in passing it; now our factories are closing and openning in other countries. You know, both party's are selling America downstream. Neither candidate has any economic background, America is facing an economic meltdown. Man, America, we need something better than two cashiers standing at the door reaping profits off our nation's demise. They fight with each other alright, over who controls the greatest profit from selling out our nation. I don't hold out much hope for my children with these professional politicians of both party's. Please don't put up some weak libertarian either. America we need a real leader. Next four years under either of these 2 party's candidates is only bound to get worse. God save this nation from the professional politicians that have destroyed her for their own gain...
September 24, 2008

5:01 a.m.

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leslieforlife writes:

Why is it right to kill an innocent baby boy or girl
if the father is a criminal rapist?

The death penalty should be given to the criminal,
not the innocent baby.

Deuteronomy 24:16 "The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin."
September 24, 2008

5:23 a.m.

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LOUIE writes:

Malachi, women in some countries are considered chattels, some even circumsize their "property", whats that got to do with America? You tell me what rights women hold in the 3rd world Malachi? In some african countries they rape the women of opposing tribes, and put them in slavery, whats that got to do with America? Your comparing apples and oranges; two totally different worlds with totally different cultures. I don't support abortion, I will still vote for the best candidate as a leader, sometimes that candidate supports abortion, like Clinton whom I voted for on his 2nd term. When I vote for that candidate, it's because he has other qualities that far outweigh my opposition on that one issue. It works in reverse as well, there are those who will vote for a candidate that does not support abortion like Reagan, why? Because his qualities as a leader far outweigh his opponent. I have to put aside my opposition to some issues sometimes, and think of our nation's needs as a whole. Right now America is going down economically and whether a candidate supports abortion, gay rights,or other issues, is not as important to me as one who can lead us through this economic mess, along with a war that has to be completed with Iraq stabalized, yet is draining us finacially as a nation. With our nation in the mess it's in, who my neighbor sleeps with is on the back burner also. We may end up a 3rd world country Malachi at the rate we are going, then your analogy will be more on point. As an independent, and undecided at this juncture, I will always put the needs of my nations first as a whole, above my individual beliefs. We need a leader, and the choices presented are less than stellar from both partys, making it an extremely difficult to chose one over the other to lead this nation I dearly love.
September 24, 2008

5:55 a.m.

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Oh_Wise_One writes:

Maybe Slow Joe Biden could send some money in so that he doesn't look so pathetic in his deductions. If he gave, like, 1,000,000 dollars, he could get his 10 year average up to 10%. Cheap, miserly, old fart is a polite description.
September 24, 2008

5:59 a.m.

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Nancyu writes:

INC wrote:

"bph, thanks for the shock, I wonder if you would explain why you put that photo up. My 9 year old is screaming and refuses to go to sleep."

Since whatever was there has been removed, I'm not sure but am assuming it was an abortion photo(?) If so, and it upset your child, then maybe you will consider what the choice you support actually is. The only way to make these pictures go away, is if abortion goes away. She posted the photo, she didn't perform the abortion. Looks like you believe in shooting the messenger.

"Here is an even bigger tragedy"

Maybe you thing being unwanted or unloved by your own parents is worse than being slaughtered. I don't happen to agree. There are people in line to adopt, and give these "unwanted" children a loving home.

Furthermore, how do you know which children are truly unwanted? Should we kill them all just in case?
September 24, 2008

6 a.m.

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LOUIE writes:

Joe Biden is useless, even to his own party's faithful. You never can predict what will fall out of his mouth; and Mr. Obama deserved better.
September 24, 2008

7:08 a.m.

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dilligaf writes:

I recieved one of these e-mails from my niece. And I killed two birds with one stone. I sent $500.00 dollars to a good cause & and was able to get a thank you card to Barbie. This has been ruled on by the highest court in our country. Live with it. If someone wants it changed then it should go through our normal process. No politician has the right or power to get that over turned. Example: Bush had 6 years with republican control to change it and couldn't. So how would Barbie do it. You people vote for people with the understanding they can change things that are out of their control.
September 24, 2008

7:31 a.m.

dilligaf writes:

(This comment was removed by the site staff.)
September 24, 2008

7:38 a.m.

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riverrafter writes:

I think this is a wonderful exercise of the democratic process. How terrific that we live in a country where you can make a statement of your views and let those opposed know that we are here, we have a voice and we're not going away. Cheers to the person who thought this up!
September 24, 2008

7:50 a.m.

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fleetmack writes:

This is a great idea, reminds me of the porn store in Boulder county named after the people who opposed it that lived across the street. Awesome, and glad a wonderful organization such as PP is benefiting.
September 24, 2008

7:59 a.m.

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sundaychild67 writes:

Who are we kidding? Let's call a spade a spade! People who claim they are "Pro-Life" should be re-labeled "Pro-BIRTH" instead. These people don't care at ALL about the child after it's born! If they were really committed to being "Pro-Life", they would open their homes and foster some of these unwanted children. They wouldn't complain when taxes would have to be raised in order to help pay for the social programs that help children in foster care. They would actually care about the unwanted children WHO ARE ALREADY HERE!
September 24, 2008

7:59 a.m.

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dilligaf writes:

riverrafter
You are 100% correct. And what a wonderful country we live in that as a Separation of Powers. We have people in this country that think if the vote for a certain person that has the same believes as we do they can change what our courts have ruled on. I have to laugh when I here clowns say I won't vote for a Democrat because they want to take away my guns. THEY CAN'T!!!
Or I,m going to vote for this person because he or she is going to make abortion illegal. THEY CAN'T!!!!! If they would only educate themselves on the Separation of Powers.
And to think they can appoint the right Supreme Court Justices and reverse other decisions is also ridiculous. IT HAS TO COME BEFORE THEM TO CHANGE IT!!!!!!! Now if it was that easy don't you think Bush with a Republican Supreme Court would have had it over turned by now.
September 24, 2008

8:42 a.m.

sundaychild67 writes:

(This comment was removed by the site staff.)
September 24, 2008

8:44 a.m.

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richardboyd writes:

Mother Teresa: "It is a poverty to decide that a child must die so that you may live as you wish"
How sad it is to see women fighting for the right to kill their unborn children. Our modern American culture is saturated in the acceptance of casual sex as recreation; but the fact remains that sexual intercourse between males and females results in babies. That's the way we're made! Women: why are you having sex if you're not ready for children? Men: same question applies, and also ask yourself if you're not just using this woman? You better "man up" and quit treating her like a toy.
Abortion is disgusting. Try explaining it to a child and watch their face when they realize what you're saying. It's just flat out wrong. It's the most intimate form of violence there is, and it's NEVER the right thing to do. Sarah has more guts than the rest of you abortion defenders put together.
September 24, 2008

8:54 a.m.

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riverrafter writes:

I stand by my comments made in posts past- if men were the ones carrying and having babies, this discussion wouldn't even be on the table. Not only would abortion be legal, but insurance would pay for it!
September 24, 2008

8:58 a.m.

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Buckwheat writes:

Not up to me (or anyone else) to tell a woman what she can or cannot do with her body. Weather I am against abortion or not. I'am not going to get into a debate over it. That's my feelings and nothing anyone (or any law) is going to do to change them. If a woman wants an abortion and can't get one here, there are other countries that would be happy to accomodate her. Here or Mexico? That's going to be the only difference.
September 24, 2008

8:59 a.m.

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sundaychild67 writes:

Hey richardboyd, and all the rest of you men: this is a woman's issue, period. Until you have the capacity to give birth, you have no dog in this fight. But it still doesn't seem to shut you men up. All you do is yammer on and on about how horrible it is, when maybe you should yammer about PREVENTING unwanted pregnancies! You CANNOT have it both ways! You judge the women who choose to end a pregnancy, yet you won't help her or her child if she chooses to have the baby. You refuse to educate people about birth control, and I think we all know just how effective "abstinence-only" sex education works, and then you judge women when they find themselves in a terrible predicament. And where are the men? Certainly not supporting the woman they impregnated! So again, I say to you and all the men...THIS IS NOT YOUR ISSUE!
September 24, 2008

9:02 a.m.

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Coffee_Mug writes:

Does this mean that you're starting to go soft Grunt?! Maybe hell has definitely froze over.
September 24, 2008

9:07 a.m.

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DenverDan writes:

bph

There is a man in my town who drives around with pics of aborted babbies on his truck. I want to punch him in the face! Who does he think he is. Killing people with a gun is a sin, Should he drive around with pics of a head blown off, for shock value. If these God freaks want to make a point drive around with pics of thier own sins, that say "punching one out on your PC looking at porn is a sin" this is my sin look at my Pics.
September 24, 2008

9:12 a.m.

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riverrafter writes:

I just made my $10.00 donation to Planned Parenthood in Sarah Palin's name. I don't think anything has tickled me this much in a long time. Thanks, Sarah, for getting me to "man up" and put my money where my mouth is! I feel really, really good about this! What a great way to get the issue of proper education in the use of contraception to the front of people's minds!
September 24, 2008

9:13 a.m.

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richardboyd writes:

Sundaychild; abortion will be a women's-only issue when they get pregnant spontaneously. You are correct, where are the men? Abortion wouldn't exist except for an absolute failure of male leadership. I used to think abortion was great because it meant I didn't have to care. It's sick, ladies, but it's probably what your boyfriend thinks too. Bottom line people shouldn't be having sex if they're not ready for kids. Old-fashioned, yes, and proud of it because it makes sense.
September 24, 2008

9:16 a.m.

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sawzallartist writes:

You anti-choice are fools if you think the republicans will ever stop abortion. It is an easy vote from single issue simpletons.

If men had a womb...there would be drive-thru abortion clinics.
September 24, 2008

9:20 a.m.

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richardboyd writes:

sawzallartist, that is true
because men will do anything for unrestricted sex
including selling their souls
September 24, 2008

9:33 a.m.

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richardboyd writes:

cynical:
all law is codified morality, that is moral values of society written into law. "legislating morality" is a redundant, self-evident, and moot argument. Speaking of "legislating morality" what the bloody h#ll to you think Roe v Wade was??!!??
what a woman does with her body is her business. it's the life of the unborn that's the issue. scientific fact: the fetus is a completely separate body from the moment of conception. exclusive DNA, different blood supply, the whole shebang.
September 24, 2008

9:36 a.m.

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JYP3500 writes:

Now Planned Parenthood has enough money to open "Abortions-R-Us" clinics on every street corner.

I would love to be a fly on the wall when all these "liberated" women, who've had one or more abortions, finally meet their Maker. I'm sure He will be very understanding.
September 24, 2008

9:36 a.m.

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almostarmy2003 writes:

LMAO!
September 24, 2008

9:50 a.m.

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cassidy22 writes:

Why can't the pro-life supporters accept the fact that no abortion is "convenient" and that many women have abortions to save their own lives, or to make a responsible decision regarding a mal-formed fetus that will never survive. Why do you think this argument is ONLY about abortion for birth control?

banning it altogether, and making EVERY ABORTION illegal puts any woman who has PLANNED to have a child with her HUSBAND who ends up with an ectopic pregnancy at risk of DYING and taking the child with her. Why can't you back off and leave that OPTION to a responsible woman who wants to save her life so that she can raise a family (that she already may have) or try to have a successful pregnancy.

A full BAN on abortions sends desperate women to back alleys with coat hangers. It also eliminates a real medical option for responsible women who want to raise a family, and have an issue - like ectopic pregnancies or other very dangerous things that can happen in a pregnancy that risk the woman and the child. WHY would you vote to take that option away?
Spend your energy on sex education so that women and men really know how to prevent unwanted pregnancies. Abstinence only education is PROVEN to be ineffective, besides, not every person shares the view of waiting until they are married. Why not responsibly teach teens, young adults and full grown adults how to plan a family. You aren't going to stop people from having sex.

So stop trying to ban the abortion. Stop the problems BEFORE they happen, and allow doctors to safely remove a fetus that may harm the mother.
September 24, 2008

10:02 a.m.

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richardboyd writes:

cynical
your arguments are not sufficient.
all law is based on morality. this is not my opinion, this is fact. Morality deals with issues of right and wrong and understood by human societies, irrespective of religion.
Roe v Wade was bad law, no matter which side of the issue you are on. The right was found in the "emanations of the penumbra" of the 14th ammendment. If you don't know what that means you're not alone. It was a stretch of comic proportions.
Your science is also lacking some detail: at conception the individual is unique; even the first cell. A genetic engineer could identify every characteristic about that individual by examing the chromosomes. A totally separate individual.
Bottom line, we treat sex like recreation and it's causing lots of problems. As men we are letting society down by not respecting women and the power they naturally have to nuture life.
September 24, 2008

10:10 a.m.

sundaychild67 writes:

(This comment was removed by the site staff.)
September 24, 2008

10:15 a.m.

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riverrafter writes:

Richardboyd-
Until science comes up with a way to remove that first cell and put it somewhere else to grow to completion, it is still the woman's body and she has the right to say what happens to it.
September 24, 2008

10:17 a.m.

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UNV_ME writes:

Your religion may not be my religion. Your beliefs may not be my beliefs. Do as you see fit and I will do the same of my life. You can't force your opinions on anyone. Keep your rosaries off my ovaries.
September 24, 2008

10:17 a.m.

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cassidy22 writes:

Two things that strike me - the "separate individual" argument. If that were truly the case, then remove the fertilized egg from the womb and let it be a "separate individual" True, it has unique genetics and does not share its blood stream with it's mother, but the mother provides it a protected environment, nourishment and removes its waste products for it until it is ready to live on its own. So if you want to argue that, then the baby is dependent on the mother until it is x-weeks old. So you can't give it individual rights when it is not truly an individual

Secondly, I am an engineer, and this "problem" of abortions has a root cause. The solution is not to ban the abortion. The solution is to reduce the NEED of the abortion. Reduce unwanted pregnancies. Sex education, birth control that prevents conception, etc. THESE will reduce the frequency of unwanted pregnancies. Banning abortions does not eliminate the CAUSE. It eliminates a symptom of the cause.
September 24, 2008

10:17 a.m.

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jay writes:

i'm still waiting for anyone from the religious right to justify their abortion position considering it won't reduce abortions....as opposed to say...realistic sex ed and access to contraceptives.
September 24, 2008

10:19 a.m.

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danirobi writes:

Yay for supporting the death of innocent babies!
September 24, 2008

10:23 a.m.

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riverrafter writes:

She doesn't scare me because she's little (and lady is a stretch). she scares me because up until last year she never set foot off American soil and she would be one step away from the most complex job in the world.
September 24, 2008

10:25 a.m.

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cassidy22 writes:

NotChuckieB - I don't care about what another woman does to her body. I don't care what mistakes she makes, and I don't care that she may have made a decision she might regret for the rest of her life.

I DO CARE that I, my sisters, daughters, friends, loved ones MAY be in that 5% that have an ectopic pregnancy. If you get your way and ban abortions - I would have lost a sister-in-law who did almost die, and 3 female friends. All of which had surgery, and went on to have healthy children. What they have now is a mother, father and healthy children. You would have created a widower, and possibly children that no longer have a mother.

Why can't I try to protect that 5%? I might be in that 5%. You never will be, since you are man. YOu are never at risk of losing your life over a child that will also die, regardless. I do want to fight for that 5%. And then I want to help young men and women learn that they can PLAN a family (regardless of the Catholic church, it's Pope and their assinine "every sperm is sacred" crap) and they don't have to get pregnant when they don't want to.

That 5% is very important to me. And I will fight to protect their rights to proper medical care, regardless of your religious beliefs.

Besides - I find most "Pro-life" people are MEN, and women beyond child bearing age. They aren't faced with this issue personally anymore, it's really easy to impose their views on others when they don't have to make these decisions.
September 24, 2008

10:32 a.m.

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richardboyd writes:

Sunday
you are correct, the man should not have got the woman pregnant to begin with. Men, we could fix this whole issue without legislating anything if we'd quit treating women like our own personal blow up dolls. And women, it wouldn't hurt if you start demanding higher standards from your men. Why are giving it up to someone who hasn't committed? Didn't your fathers tell you anything about the way men think?
September 24, 2008

10:34 a.m.

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jay writes:

dickboyd, how do you rationalize your position on abortion considering that it won't actually decrease abortions like some of the less extreme alternative...realistic sex ed and access to contraceptives?
September 24, 2008

10:35 a.m.

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cassidy22 writes:

ezekiel - that's right, if you are a religious person.

I was raised to believe that no one has a right to judge me except God. So why do you continue to do so? Let people be responsible for their actions. And let God do the judging. You made my argument for me. You are in no place to judge.

I was also raised to believe you could repent your sins and ask forgiveness. So why don't you let each individual work that out with their own god, and leave the judgement to the Judge?

(you also make the assumption that a fertilized egg is a "baby". Very convenient for your cause. Sometimes it's a ball of cells with such chromosomal abnormalities that it will never survive outside the womb, or that it will never be a viable human being. So, please, keep your definition of "baby" to yourself. I'm going to listen to my doctor for her definition of what the fetus inside me really is)
September 24, 2008

10:36 a.m.

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sstnt writes:

Can no common ground ever be found on this issue? Democrats wash their hands of the "rare" part of their platform on abortion (think they even took it out this year). Republicans want to outlaw or restrict it without providing for the result, more unwanted kids.

Answer these three questions on your stance on abortion;

Would you allow unrestricted abortion for:
a) Any reason
b) Rape, Incest, fetal abnormality, or life of the mother
c) Life of mother only
d) No reason

At what point should abortions be restricted:
a) Conception
b) After 1st trimester
c) At fetal viability (can live outside the womb)
d) Never

What would You support to make abortions "rare":
a) Additional Support (government and private) for single mothers
b) Providing support to make adoption easier and cheaper
c) Additional age appropriate sex education
d) All of the above
e) None of the above

Well? My answers are b,c,and d. What are yours?
September 24, 2008

10:41 a.m.

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danirobi writes:

Riverrafter- "never stepped foot on American soil" newsflash, Alaska is AMERICAN SOIL!
September 24, 2008

10:44 a.m.

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Coffee_Mug writes:

Sundaychild,
While I agree that this may ultimately be a "womans issue" and not a mans' issue, it cannot be isolated to one specific group or gender. Especially in an election year, when sooner or later, it is or at the very least an issue a given candidate ties himself/herself to. Thus, it becomes an issue for everyone, either directly or indirectly, like it or not. I cannot speak to a womans' point of view as far as to what the woman goes through in this process. I feel that some kind of common ground needs to be found on this, which at some point will involve both women and men.
September 24, 2008

10:44 a.m.

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kot writes:

Why is it that so many think that abortions is all Planned Parenthood does? They provide several other services to both men and women.
September 24, 2008

10:48 a.m.

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cassidy22 writes:

sstnt - same answers as yours

hakj - I agree with you too

NotChuckieB - what would have happened if my mother had aborted me? I would never know, would I? Because I wouldn't be here.

But again, I will not back down. I am going to PROTECT that 5% that have the right to fair medical procedures as needed.

And I am going to tell you that BANNING birth control abortions does NOT SOLVE THE PROBLEM. It's a big leaky band aid that does nothing. The problem is UNWANTED PREGNANCIES, we must do more to prevent the CAUSE, and not band aid the symptom of the cause.

And, Chuckie - if you want the fetuses to speak up on their regards... I'm listening. They aren't speaking, they can't even breath on their own. So, no, I wasn't a "BABY" until I was able to live outside my mother's womb. Until then, I was an embryo, a fetus, and if I had never been born - the world would not be much different than it is now. You certainly wouldn't have missed me!
September 24, 2008

10:52 a.m.

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Sensible writes:

McCain/Palin '08 for obvious reasons...
September 24, 2008

10:55 a.m.

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RockyMtnMac writes:

Doesn't Planned Parenthood receive big bucks from the government?
I'm really asking. Does anyone know the status of that?
If they receive a substantial percentage of their funding from the government, aren't they required to stay out of the political forum?
September 24, 2008

10:57 a.m.

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cassidy22 writes:

You like putting words in people's mouths, Chuckie.

Personally - I wouldn't have an abortion unless I were raped, or my life was in danger, or my unborn child had severe genetic defects that would leave it unable to sustain itself. BUT THAT IS MY belief, right now, at this stage in my life and I would NOT impose that on anyone else.

My argument is that the BAN does not solve the PROBLEM. We can do more to solve the problem. Banning abortions does not stop unwanted pregnancies, and banning abortions does not STOP ABORTIONS! SO, I don't support banning abortions in any way. every individual should be allowed to have their own choice. Places like Planned Parenthood council women and men on those choices, help them understand the repurcussions, help them find information so they can make the choice that is right for them. And I don't think *I* have the right to take that choice away from ANYONE, and I don't think that *you* have the right to take that choice away from anyone.
September 24, 2008

10:58 a.m.

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richardboyd writes:

jay
thanks for the name calling
my position of respecting the power of sex to create children has an immediate effect on the number of unwanted pregnancies. Don't have sex if you don't want kids. Find some other way to play. Contraception denies the natural power and sexuality of the human person. Abortion destroys an innocent life. I am advocating respect for sexuality. Men and women should respect each other, including the fact that we are sexual beings. Sex makes babies, that's just the way it is. Mess with Mother Nature and you're gonna cause trouble.
September 24, 2008

11:01 a.m.

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richardboyd writes:

Cynical
Do you believe there is a God?
September 24, 2008

11:08 a.m.

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sawzallartist writes:

danirobi writes:

Yay for supporting the death of innocent babies!

or.....

Yay for supporting the death 0f innocent men and women and children in Iraq (among other countries) and the first two with the death penalty in America.
September 24, 2008

11:13 a.m.

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jay writes:

"thanks for the name calling"

i thought your first name was richard...which is long for...---- let me know if that's not the case.

you still haven't told us why you support an abortion position that WON'T DECREASE ABORTIONS.

tough to run from that one.
September 24, 2008

11:14 a.m.

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riverrafter writes:

Danirobi- I said never set foot OFF American soil. So who's the idiot here? Newsflash- there are GED classes everywhere....
September 24, 2008

11:16 a.m.

riverrafter writes:

(This comment was removed by the site staff.)
September 24, 2008

11:20 a.m.

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richardboyd writes:

Jay
yeah you can tell I like to run from issues
the vast majority of abortions are to terminate a pregnancy the woman is unwilling to face, not because of fetal abnormalities or ectopic pregnancies.
less sex outside marriage = less unwanted pregnancies = fewer abortions
September 24, 2008

11:25 a.m.

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jay writes:

i'm confused, richard.

do you agree that abortions should remain legal, safe and rare or not?
September 24, 2008

11:27 a.m.

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Cowboy63 writes:

cynical_one - Make up your mind, Junior!

One minute you write: "Thanks for trying to push your mythical book as fact. Come back when you have a brain."

Then you write: "By Jesus' account, judging others is immoral. Only God is allowed to judge. So, you are not only an idiot, you are also immoral."

If Jesus is a myth; why are you quoting him? Why would you care?

Decide what you believe and stick to it! Otherwise you'll make atheists sounds even more "flaky".
September 24, 2008

11:33 a.m.

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kot writes:

Ok. So it's better to bring an unwanted child into this world, when the individual knows that they cannot provide for this child and give it the life it deserves? If it is given up, not all children are adopted and instead are bounced around in the system from foster family to foster family and develop mental and emotional issues from an unstable environment. It's not healthy.
September 24, 2008

11:36 a.m.

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Cowboy63 writes:

Even the most diehard, pro-choice Planned Parenthood supporter would have to agree that EVERY abortion ends with a dead baby. (TEST: If you didn't think it was a baby - you wouldn't be having the abortion.)

Now. That fact doesn't have to matter to you and you are free to hold the pro-choice position but the fact remains unchanged. You just have to decide whether the circumstances warrant a dead baby or not. Make the informed CHOICE, based on that reality.

I wanted to donate some money in Obama's name to some cause, but I still can't figure out what the guy stands for! Does anybody know?
September 24, 2008

11:42 a.m.

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Cowboy63 writes:

kot writes: "So it's better to bring an unwanted child into this world, when the individual knows that they cannot provide for this child and give it the life it deserves? If it is given up, not all children are adopted and instead are bounced around in the system from foster family to foster family and develop mental and emotional issues from an unstable environment. It's not healthy."

Excellent point! Sounds like it pays to use your head BEFORE you get pregnant.

All religious discussions aside. Once again - Is it worth a dead baby to you?
September 24, 2008

11:48 a.m.

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jaybyrd writes:

It appears that Palin is doing something positive on this issue, motivating private donors to contribute to PP which hopefully reduces the chance that my tax dollars will ever be used to support PP. Its their money, contribute away; just keep my money away from them!
September 24, 2008

11:49 a.m.

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mistyboo writes:

I am pro-choice and I am old enough to remember when abortions were illegal. That said, Planned Parenthood was my doctor of choice for many years. They helped me with birth control and other female medical issues when I was younger, so that I never had to make the choice of whether or not to have an abortion. If everyone was taught about birth control, there would be very little need for abortions. These abstinence only policies are ridiculous and obviously don't work (as in Palin's daughters case). Teach birth control and talk to your children (sons and daughters) about the consequences of their actions. Thirty years and 2 daughters later, with no abortions and no out-of-wedlock children, I'd have say THANK YOU Planned Parenthood. I'll be sending my check in today!!
September 24, 2008

11:58 a.m.

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SingleWorkingMomInVa writes:

Whew, thank goodness for Sshara, Richardboyd and NotchuckieB and your statements. These leftwing Feminists need intelligent individuals to speak out against their propoganda. The "women's rights movement" was hijacked in the 60's by a bunch of egotistic unhappy women who think they speak for the rest of us women. It is amusing how shocked and confused they are to find that a LOT of women agree with Sarah Palin. They are running scared now that there are women questioning the abortion rights movement. Even my mother, who was a young woman BEFORE abortions were legal and was pro choice admits that it is a different situation in this day and age with FREE birth control available and sex ed taught in schools. LONG GONE is the stigma that was attached to out of wedlock babies. It is disgusting how abortion is being used as a form of BIRTH CONTROL. In addition, I know women who had abortions as teenagers because it was "the thing" to do and they live with the emotional and physical scars and regrets of beleiving the ERA propoganda of how they were just exercising the rights of women to control their bodies. They now understand that they killed their own children for convenience. As the mother of TWO teenagers (19 & 17)If you can't figure out how NOT to get pregnant then don't have sex.
GO SARAH PALIN!!!
September 24, 2008

12:01 p.m.

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DenverDan writes:

I am so sick of stupid Americans. If you believe in God, he loves DEMS he loves REP all the same. To me the clear choice for Pres is Obama. I don’t give a crap if he has a (R) or a (D) next to his name. People please look what is going on in our Country at this point in time. I work with people that think just like what the AM radio hate people tell them to think. Please keep God out of politics; you people don’t want congress in the Church telling you what to think. Please people, vote for what is best for our Country not what is best for your Party.
September 24, 2008

12:02 p.m.

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Cowboy63 writes:

cynical_one writes: "Not every abortion ends with a dead baby. Abortions done before the end of the 1st trimester result with a bunch of dead cells."

Key words being: "abortions", "result", "dead".

You can argue for abortion; but you can't argue what abortion is.
September 24, 2008

12:04 p.m.

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whograbdmyass writes:

Sundaychild67 writes: "You CANNOT have it both ways."

I don't typically post here. However, I feel compelled to comment.

It seems to me that the ones wanting to have it both ways are the pro-choice advocates. I often hear pro-choicers utter "my body, choice". What I have yet to hear is "my body, my choice, my responsibility". Currently, men do not have an option to to accept and care for their child if the female decides not to have a child based on whatever her circumstances. I find this hardly equitable, especially since, the man can be compelled by the courts, to at least financially support the child if it's a child he doesn't want. My perspective might change if women accepted the responsibility that goes along with "my body, my choice".

My point being that, at least for me, and based on my experience, that there is somewhat, a mens rights issue that needs to be addressed within the abortion debate. Afterall, I believe that neither side should have it both ways.
September 24, 2008

12:05 p.m.

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TheDenverB writes:

"Even the most diehard, pro-choice Planned Parenthood supporter would have to agree that EVERY abortion ends with a dead baby"

no we don't. in fact, i completely disagree with you.

it's not a dead baby. it's a terminated unborn fetus that was never alive in the first place.

a baby would have to be born first, and a first trimester fetus isn't going to live outside of the mother's body on it's own.

you, sir, are wrong.
September 24, 2008

12:10 p.m.

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jay writes:

cowboy, are you interested in reducing abortions?
September 24, 2008

12:18 p.m.

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cassidy22 writes:

I know you say you are done Chuckie, but I am once again going to tell you that I don't want RELIGION in my government. Pro-life organizations are religious and are pushing this ban due to their religious beliefs.

YOU may think I have no morals, but I don't want your religion. IN my laws, in my doctor's office, on my body.

never ONCE did I say abortion was moral and that killing babies is a good thing to do. You will never hear a pro-choice person say 'I want to kill!!" which is what all pro-lifers try to put in our mouth.

If you impose your religious beliefs here on me, where else are you going to pose it on me? The Christian Right already is making gay marriage illegal in most states, where else are you going to force your religion on me?

I have the right to choose, and I will continue to fight for the right to live my life by MY values, NOT YOURS.
September 24, 2008

12:20 p.m.

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SingleWorkingMomInVa writes:

The DenverB have you been living in a cave for the past several years. Not long ago the medical community could not save a baby born before the 30th week NOW we can keep them alive from around 24 weeks of gestation. LOGICAL CONCLUSION: Just because our medical science hasn't gotten to the point yet the we can keep a baby alive outside the womb from the moment of conception DOESN'T mean they are NOT ALIVE. Go Sarah Palin.
September 24, 2008

12:30 p.m.

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andi38 writes:

Disgusting ploy to fund the most disgusting "clinic" in America.
If babies are saved at 21 wks we should not be able to murder them because of politics.
September 24, 2008

12:58 p.m.

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EZBakeOven writes:

I just donated money to Planned Parenthood in Sarah Palin's name. And I liked it.
September 24, 2008

1:08 p.m.

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LOUIE writes:

God may not like abortion, whose to say; but He sure was rough on the first born of those who made Him mad!
September 24, 2008

1:15 p.m.

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riverrafter writes:

Whograbd- (nice choice for a moniker. I'd be willing to bet- nobody). Pro choice supporters are the ones yelling for sex education and teaching about contraception. We're not saying "my body, my choice" and then not taking responsibility. That is one of the main functions of Planned Parenthood- to teach. And to provide contraception to those that want it. and to provide abortions to those that need it. All without judgement. Too bad you can't say the same.
September 24, 2008

1:15 p.m.

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GladysKravitz writes:

I gave! This is so interesting how the Palin Effect has energized the opposition. Just think if Hitler, BinLaden or Ahmadmidjan had been aborted..... hmmmmmmmmmm. Any neo-cons want to tackle than one?

BTW: vote no on 48!
September 24, 2008

1:21 p.m.

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richardboyd writes:

Cynical, and Cassidy,
Since you do not accept God as a concept or reality, then there can be no agreement on "right" or "wrong". In this case I am free to totally reject your version of what is "right" or "wrong", and of course the same applies to you. We can all do as we please, whether it affects anyone else or not. After all, if there is no life after death, no judgement day, then it really doesn't matter what we do in this life. It's just "majority rules". Which, for example, if you happened to be a Jew in Germany in the late '30s and early '40s, was just too bad for you. No hard feelings, it's what most of us want! Without God, and without "religion" the world quickly becomes a very, very, bad place. If there is a God, do you think God approves of abortion?
September 24, 2008

1:33 p.m.

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Macita183 writes:

Planned Parenthood does not advocate abortions, it advocates for safer sex. So many parents in this country have a huge issue in talking to their kids about sex, but it is a reality that your teens will have sex. All the preaching about anti-abortion and saving it until your marriage won't stop it from happening. I personally would not get an abortion because I have a large support network of friends/family, but I strong support the right to abortion. It is not our governments place to regulate this.
September 24, 2008

1:37 p.m.

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me2 writes:

You sanctimonious men who want women to take responsibility for their pregnancies and not abort, also want them to give up the baby so the poor sperm donor daddy doesn't have to pay child support. You don't want equality, you want to weasel out. To play and not have to pay in any way.

Abortion is not about making men and women equally responsible or what ever you think it is. It is about women's lives and health and jobs and families.

PP provides a wide range of health care as well as making sure poor women get prenatal care and can have healthy babies. Do you fools who see a hugely pregnant woman going into a PP clinic think in your tiny little minds that she will be aborting?

Not only send money to PP, but send these articles to all your feminist friends, men and woman. Spread the news.
September 24, 2008

1:44 p.m.

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jay writes:

thanks rickylee, i appreciate the kudos.

i find that if you can break the opposition down to avoiding a simple, inconvenient question it often times points out the lack of logic in their position.

for instance:

why would anyone believe our country incapable of adopting some of the best practices of countries doing healthcare better than we are?

or

what makes you believe that continuing the policies of the last 8 years is the best way to fix the messes that the policies of the last 8 years have created?

it's tough to avoid those questions and still retain any semblance of credibility.

right, richardboyd?
September 24, 2008

1:54 p.m.

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cassidy22 writes:

richardboyd

You make assumptions. I was raised Catholic. I believe in God. I was taught that HE is the only one to judge me. And that I am not to judge other people, but love them as my neighbor, and forgive them for their trespasses. I'd love it if the Pro-lifers could do the same - and let God judge me, love me as their neighbor and forgive me for any way I may have trepassed against them.

So, stop judging me, and keep your religious beliefs out of my laws. I'm not judging you and you can choose to advocate within your own family about anti-abortion. I can choose to teach my children about safe sex, birth control and ways to responsibly plan a family.
September 24, 2008

1:54 p.m.

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SingleWorkingMomInVa writes:

Why do you libs keep making this a men vs women issue. Grow up this is life we are talking about. Not convenience, inconvenience, who will pay the bills. Take responsibility for your actions. Women and men who play and aren't responsible then they will have to live with the results. If your that worried your birth control won't work then don't have intercourse. But don't come crying to me of unplanned pregnancies when you went out, got drunk and had a one night stand or just got promoted at work so it's not a good time. Life isn't convenient but it is well worth it.
September 24, 2008

2:04 p.m.

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Cowboy63 writes:

cynical_one - Let me give you a definition: Growth = Life.

Every doctor out there will tell you it is a life that is being aborted. I know a few women who are emotionally devastated at aborting what you call "a few cells". Tell THEM it wasn't a baby.

jay - Nothing "political" about it, but why just stop at abortion if all you care about is reducing numbers?

We have laws against murder, rape, etc. and the numbers of those remain steady as well. Would you just give up caring since the laws obviously aren't effective at "reducing the numbers" in those cases either?

GladysKravitz writes: "Just think if Hitler, BinLaden or Ahmadmidjan had been aborted..... hmmmmmmmmmm.?

If Hitler, BinLaden or Ahmadmidjan had been aborted?..

Someone else would have stepped up and taken their place. You can't abort ____ (insert your personally acceptable term for "evil" here) out of the world. Utopia is NOT one law away.

Hey! I'm all about Choices and Responsibility. I fully support your right to believe whatever you want! but certain realities are not open to interpretation.

You bite it - you chew it.
September 24, 2008

2:07 p.m.

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cassidy22 writes:

Thank you cynical.

Richard, do you realize that you want to base LAWS on your religious beliefs and the belief in your God.

Do you also not recognize that in America, we have freedom of religion, and that many people do not practice your religion?

I think most people understand the concept of right vs. wrong, but when it comes to reproductive rights, that's when you step out of societal norms and into your specific religious teachings. That is what I do not want.
September 24, 2008

2:08 p.m.

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richardboyd writes:

Wrong, Jay
Abortion is a nasty, repugnant, intimately violent, and morally indefensible act. Perhaps this is why NO ONE on the left EVER takes the position that abortion is a GOOD thing, only the lesser of available evils. There is no place in a civilised society for such a degrading and depraved act as abortion. Invading the womb and killing the life within strikes at the very heart of our worth as human beings; if the child in the womb is expendable, then so are all of us. An agnostic position, perhaps? Adoption is a non violent alternative which values both mother and child. If only Planned Parenthood pushed adoption as hard as it pushes abortion!!! But there's not nearly as much profit in it.

p.s. the messes you refer to are a lot longer than 8 years in the making. I am no fan, but not everything in the universe is Bush's fault . . . . .
September 24, 2008

2:08 p.m.

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jay writes:

i'll ask again, cowboy, in the hope that you'll have the intellectual honesty to answer this inconvenient question.

do you want to reduce abortions? if so...why would you support a position that doesn't?
September 24, 2008

2:19 p.m.

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cassidy22 writes:

Cowboy, I also know a few women whose lives were saved by "aborting a few cells"

Sure, they feel bad - but they also got to live to try again. Responsibility means dealing with the aftermath of YOUR actions and decisions. Part of the aftermath of abortion is the possible feelings of guilt. Take responsibility for that, but give me the choice.

I'll still take the choice.

You all keep throwing the "baby killer" stuff at me (sound like my dad, sheesh, if he only knew what his own son did...)

But what comes after you take control of my womb? Do you start telling me that I must have as many babies as your God thinks I should have? Do you now ban birth control and tell my husband he will go to jail if he spills his seed? Do you force me to get pregnant at your will because it's what your God wants? DO you force me to get married when I am able to conceive because I have an egg in my belly, and by god, it's a life waiting to happen, and how dare I put it to waste? When do you stop imposting laws on my body?

Maybe after you tell me I can never ever make a medical decision about my reproductive system again (because it seems you think you are more qualified than I am at this type of decision) maybe next, because I thought abortion was OK, you'll put me behind bars, too... because I might have hurt someone (who doens't exist)

Face it, you are an extremist, and I have no faith that your imposition on me will end. We need LESS laws so that people CAN face their decisions and be responsible for their actions. Too many people are babied by our government into not having to be responsible. We need less government, and damn it, I want less religious interference in that government.

One last point to the religious self-righteous pro-lifers - I am never going to agree with you. You are never going to agree with me. and I am going to put my money and my vote where my mouth is. Separation of church and state, I demand it.
September 24, 2008

2:20 p.m.

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joggle writes:

Unsurprisingly this has turned 100% into an abortion debate thread. The fact is that having such a hard-right person in such a high position (or even getting the chance) is causing her opponents to raise a lot more money without even trying. It's the same thing as when Obama raised more in one day the day after she gave her speech at the RNC (much more than McCain raised the same day). As much as she energizes the Republican base, she energizes her opponents even more.
September 24, 2008

2:20 p.m.

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jay writes:

"Abortion is a nasty, repugnant, intimately violent, and morally indefensible act."

considering your opinion as such, richard, i would have thought that you'd adopt a position that would actually reduce them, no?

ps...you can try to shift the blame for the failures of the last 8 years away from the republicans...but i'll ask...why would you vote to continue failed policies?
September 24, 2008

2:30 p.m.

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cassidy22 writes:

This is all a matter of OPINION. Which means I can have mine, and you can have yours, and neither one of us is WRONG.

I don't agree with your religious teachings, they are NOT infallible and they are NOT fact.

In such case, my pro-choice stance is not WRONG, it just does not agree with your pro-life stance.
September 24, 2008

2:46 p.m.

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richardboyd writes:

Jay,
the problems we have as a society have been developing a lot longer than 8 years. I am no fan, but not everything in the world is Bush's fault. Bush-bashing is fun, no doubt, but it is also ignorant. He is only one man, and a simple-minded one at that. It took the whole Congress many many years to screw things up this bad.

Thought: if the Supremes overturned Roe tomorrow, the whole issue would go back to the States, where it belongs.
Abortion would not be "outlawed", but some restrictions might be put in place, that's it.
September 24, 2008

2:49 p.m.

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leslieforlife writes:

www.blackgenocide.org
September 24, 2008

2:58 p.m.

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UNV_ME writes:

People are quoting the bible... This may be surprising to some of you but "God" did not write the bible. Men wrote the bible. If there is one person... just one... that can prove without a doubt that "God" wishes this... let me know. Also if you read all of the bible you will see contradictions on many subjects depending on which version of the bible you read. You live your life and I shall live mine. Religion can not and should not be involved in politics.... but sadly it is.
September 24, 2008

3:04 p.m.

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whograbdmyass writes:

River:

I have not judged anyone. Nor have I even hinted at my stance with regard to Planned Parenthood or abortion. I was simply responding to an assertion that men do not have a dog in this race and want to have it both ways. However, in an attempt to simplify my point for you. Currently men do not have the choice/opportunity to opt out of the financial responsibility, or the choice/opportunity to except the responsibility of raising a child alone(I can speak personally to the latter). When "Becky Joe" meets a cowboy at the Grizzley Rose and decides to spread her legs and ends up pregnant, why should "Cowboy Bob" shoulder the financial responsibility, when, afterall, it's "her body, her choice"? Who's really wanting it both ways?
September 24, 2008

3:12 p.m.

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EZBakeOven writes:

How about "Cowboy Bob" getting a vascetomy if he doesn't want to impregnate the "Becky Joes" he picks up at bars? Problem solved!
September 24, 2008

3:21 p.m.

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whograbdmyass writes:

Maybe "Becky Joe" picked up "Cowboy Bob". Maybe "Cowboy Bob" responsibly wore a condom. How about "Becky Joe " getting her tubes tied if she doesn't want to get pregnant. "Her body, her choice." Her responsibility, not so much.
September 24, 2008

3:27 p.m.

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riverrafter writes:

Whograbd- he made the choice when he accepted the spread legs.
September 24, 2008

3:36 p.m.

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whograbdmyass writes:

River:

You are correct. However, he is not the one seeking to exclude her from the decision to accept or deny the responsibility that goes with having a child.
September 24, 2008

3:39 p.m.

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riverrafter writes:

Whograbd- are you naive or just stupid? do you really think in most cases that ole' cowboy bob is gonna cowboy up? Nope, most run for them thar hills- leaving cowgirl barbie in the lurch.
September 24, 2008

3:41 p.m.

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EZBakeOven writes:

Who: Women have all the responsibility of birth control. That's why women carry condoms in their purse. In your hypothetical if a man doesn't want the burden of unwanted children he should get hisself fixed!
September 24, 2008

3:44 p.m.

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whograbdmyass writes:

You may be right, but that has nothing to do with what we're discussing. Is this discussion too abstract for you?
September 24, 2008

3:49 p.m.

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Cowboy63 writes:

jay writes: "i'll ask again, cowboy... do you want to reduce abortions? if so...why would you support a position that doesn't?"

a) Yes.

b) I would say start with eliminating 3rd trimester/partial-birth abortions. THAT would begin to reduce abortions.

c) My position is; "Make good CHOICES to begin with; take RESPONSIBILITY for your actions and you will vastly reduce the odds that you will ever have to decide whether another LIFE is worth it".

cynical_one writes: "My hair grows and it's not a life. There goes your "theory"."

Hardly. Your hair grows BECAUSE you're alive. Do you get an abortion every time you need a haircut (just to be on the safe side)? You know the difference just like everyone else here.

We can debate when an abortion is a responsible CHOICE; but, there is no debate about what an abortion does. Ends a life.

C'mon. Can't we be "intellectualy honest" about that?

If abortion is just eliminating "a mass of cells"? Then why doesn't the pro-choice community come out and proclaim that abortion is a GREAT thing and nothing to feel bad about!?!
September 24, 2008

3:50 p.m.

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riverrafter writes:

Wow, getting a little pissy here, aren't we Whograbd? OK spell it out for me, since obviously I am to obtuse to follow your convoluted logic. Should I use smaller words?
September 24, 2008

3:55 p.m.

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whograbdmyass writes:

EZ:

To be honest with you, I believe both are responsible for protecting themselves if neither wants children. Where I have a problem is when she gets pregnant, she can choose to either abort or carry to term. The man has no say as to whether or not the child is carried to term, even if he declares that he'd raise the child alone with no financial support. His only option is to pay if she has it, or deal with the loss if she doesn't.
September 24, 2008

3:55 p.m.

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riverrafter writes:

You know what, this argument has been going on for decades now and still both sides can't agree on anything. Can we leave it at I will choose to do with my body what I feel is right?

and whograbd, I'm sure there aren't many men who will gladly take on the sole responsibility for raising a child from an unplanned pregnancy due to a chance encounter. But, if the mother chooses to keep the baby, then yes- he should be responsible, too. He was there when the baby was created and, unless he is a total lout, knew the risks.
September 24, 2008

3:58 p.m.

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me2 writes:

Lots of married women get abortions. Lots of married woman on birth control get abortions.

Your opinions of women who abort says loads about you all. Single, drinking, picking up men. How about married with too many kids and birth control fails? How about does not want to have a defective child to raise with all the other problems of daily living? I would abort a Downs child, especially a girl, because after I and her family are gone who will care for her and keep her from being raped and impregnated. Downs girls are especially vulnerable to rape. Check out the stats. In any case, it is statutory rape if their mentality is that of a child, and many are.

Send money to PP and send the idea on to friends on e-mail
September 24, 2008

4:10 p.m.

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whograbdmyass writes:

River:

You may be right that there aren't many men who would take on the responsibility. However, does that mean that men shouldn't be given the opportunity? It just seems that currently and with regard to this debate that men are simply to figured in the decision as sperm donor/potential child support payor. If that is to be the case, my feeling is that the saying should be "my body, my choice, my responsibility completely". Is that clear enough for you?
September 24, 2008

4:35 p.m.

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jasonh writes:

I love how this goes straight from Planned Parenthood straight to OMG ABORTIONS. I suggest a good many of you need to read up on Planned Parenthood and see what they're really all about.

With that said....

ezekiel777 writes:
"the hell these murdered babies experienced was this life....now they are in heaven experiencing the best it can get."

Depends on your religion. I'm not a big religion buff, but don't you have to accept God into your heart before you can go to heaven? Didn't think an unborn fetus could do that....

Cowboy63 writes:
cynical_one writes: "My hair grows and it's not a life. There goes your "theory"."

Hardly. Your hair grows BECAUSE you're alive. Do you get an abortion every time you need a haircut (just to be on the safe side)? You know the difference just like everyone else here.

So...corn grows because the plant is alive. Are we no longer allowed to harvest corn because it is a life? What about seeds? Can we not eat those because they are basically dormant embryos of plants? Or EGGS! Are we murdering baby chickens because we eat eggs? Heck, we're "murdering" animals and plants all over the place, maybe the whole planet just needs to die and get it over with.

richardboyd writes:
Adoption is a non violent alternative which values both mother and child. If only Planned Parenthood pushed adoption as hard as it pushes abortion!!! But there's not nearly as much profit in it.

Do you have any idea how difficult it actually is to adopt a child??? If only they would put so many restrictions, etc on people having children...this world would be a MUCH better place. And take it from me, in a marriage that is unable to have a child of our own.

Cowboy63 writes:
I know a few women who are emotionally devastated at aborting what you call "a few cells".

Yeah, and there are plenty of people murdering people in the streets and not caring at all (take the guy that killed the girl in Greely recently - "no use crying over spilled milk") ... so what's your point?

Cowboy63 writes
If Hitler, BinLaden or Ahmadmidjan had been aborted?..

Someone else would have stepped up and taken their place. You can't abort ____ (insert your personally acceptable term for "evil" here) out of the world. Utopia is NOT one law away.

Yet you're trying to "abort" abortions (your evil)...UTOPIA IS NOT ONE LAW AWAY

I ask this of everybody here wanting to ban abortions:

If abortions are banned, is your life any better? The life of your neighbor? Your parents? The guy down the street? The soldiers fighting in the war? The hundreds of thousands in Africa with AIDS?

Didn't think so.

I agree with jay 100% when he says the key is to reducing the need for them, not outlawing them.

If your 14 year old daughter is going to have sex, she's going to have sex. Let her have easy access to birth control, condoms, etc, and then maybe she won't need an abortion.
September 24, 2008

4:36 p.m.

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jay writes:

cowboy i'm glad to hear that you are part of the majority of americans who support keeping abortion safe, legal and rare.
September 24, 2008

4:44 p.m.

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cassidy22 writes:

If men want a choice, too.. they should consider the consequences before their actions.

I know a man whose girlfriend had an abortion. They had a strong relationship and made the decision together.

You can make the decision together. But that takes a relationship, which isn't always the case. BUt to take the choice away from everyone I don't believe is right at all. I won't support banning abortions. Bush's partial birth abortion ban was already a step in the wrong direction, and I didn't think it could happen.
September 24, 2008

6:21 p.m.

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Jack_Durden writes:

It's the woman's choice, no one else's to tell her what to do or not to do... That simple.
September 24, 2008

6:56 p.m.

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Verti_Bird writes:

Google Margaret Sanger when you get a chance. Her bio is markedly different than the incomplete one they give you at plannedparenthood.org

I suspect that if one is truly a liberal, or for that matter, a decent human being of any ideological persuasion, they will find Sanger's beliefs abhorrent. Seriously, check it out. You'll think twice before you write your check to Planned Parenthood.
September 24, 2008

8:17 p.m.

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redhead68 writes:

Oh, oh. Let me try! How about irrelevant appeal? On the other hand, a convincing argument could be made for ad hominem. Or perhaps with a stretch, red herring. What were you thinking?
September 24, 2008

8:26 p.m.

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rowdy1 writes:

Right on! Take Action Now!
September 24, 2008

10:09 p.m.

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Verti_Bird writes:

My earlier remarks were not framed as an argument (reread them if you need), so any academic claims of fallacy in the "logic" are both presumptuous and premature (if you were looking for an ongoing debate). I made no premise. I offered no literal inferences. I documented no support points from which any conclusion(s) could (or should) be drawn. But, as the tenor of these forums goes, I was admittedly engaging in less-than-airtight rhetoric, the not-so-subtle point of which was apparently lost on the more informed readers of this forum. That one would, for cynical political motivations (at the urging of a viral email no less) fork over their hard-earned to an organization that thinks so little of its own founder that it dispenses with the less flattering (but not-so-trivial) biographical details of this woman, Ms. Sanger, and her philosophies ("race hygiene" through "negative eugenics" — Wikipedia), lest one’s perception of this champion of feminism and reproductive rights come crashing down, and by association, Planned Parenthood’s own historic legacy.

You may not like that I've gone back to that old skeleton in PPs closet, but go ahead, reward me the 50 points for the red herring if you must.
September 25, 2008

8 a.m.

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andi38 writes:

cynical_one "how many unwanted babies have (I) adopted"

Well, between my friends and I, we've adopted 5.
September 25, 2008

8:18 a.m.

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andi38 writes:

Macita183

"Planned Parenthood does not advocate abortions, it advocates for safer sex"

Try going into one and seeing if they give an other options. It is an abortion shop, the vast majority of them do not counsel, give alternatives or educate the customer. Why else is it known to every teen in America as the "place to go" who needs to get rid of an unwanted baby? It is a distortion of truth to think that they advocate anything but abortions.

By the way, they don't NEED individual $.... they get our tax dollars anyway. Don't know why anyone would be silly enough to give $ to an organization that is highly profitable anyway.
Planned Parenthood receives almost a third of its money in government grants and contracts ($336.7 million in FY 2007). In the 2006–07 Annual Report, clinic income totaled $356.9 million and miscellaneous operating revenues $65.5 million. Planned Parenthood is also heavily sponsored by private individuals, with over 900,000 active individual contributors.
September 25, 2008

9:25 a.m.

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cassidy22 writes:

andi, sorry, I disagree.

I went to planned parenthood in college(this is going to be TMI) when my cramps were so bad, I walked out of a calculus exam.

I went to them seeing if there were any options for me to reduce my cramping and make life livable for me. They sat down and counseled me about my cycle, why cramping occurred, ways to reduce it, and my options. I thought I could get a prescription for a high powered pain killer. I went home with an $8 packet of pills. They provided me low cost birth control for the rest of my college career, until I could afford it on my own. I always donated extra.

6 months after I started taking BC pills (and eliminated cramping and got my life back) I was raped on campus. I never had to make the choice about aborting or not. I never got pregnant from that attack. I don't know what decision I would have made, but I didn't have to make it.

I distinctly remember their lobby being full of adoption brochures, support group meetings for single moms and dads, for first time parents, and resources for young women who were pregnant and needed support getting through their pregnancy. They helped me inadvertantly avoid an unwanted pregnancy, and they ALWAYS counseled EVERY women about her options before they would agree to any surgery.
September 25, 2008

12:48 p.m.

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Queen_Gorgo writes:

"Try going into one and seeing if they give an other options. It is an abortion shop, the vast majority of them do not counsel, give alternatives or educate the customer. Why else is it known to every teen in America as the "place to go" who needs to get rid of an unwanted baby? It is a distortion of truth to think that they advocate anything but abortions."

Lies and the lying liars who tell them. PPs business whether measured in $ or visits is <10% abortion. Why are they known for abortion? Two reasons: Lies and slander like yours, and the fact that the pro-birth crowd has harrassed and murdered abortion providers, so fewer private doctors want to deal with the hassle.
September 25, 2008

3:34 p.m.

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andi38 writes:

Queen_Gorgo & cassidy22:
I have the personal experience of seeing it firsthand. No counseling, no options, nothing. Glad there are some who had a different experience, but the ppl I have talked to who were pregnant and went there (vs. those who go for birth control or checkups) it is (can be) another experience altogether.
September 27, 2008

5:48 p.m.

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anywoman writes:

Yes we can!

Home › Politics › Elections

Planned Parenthood gains from Palin e-mail campaign

By Ed Sealover, Rocky Mountain News

Published September 23, 2008 at 7:36 p.m.

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