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KRIEGER: Going to 3-4 defense may be best call for Broncos

By Dave Krieger, Rocky Mountain News (Contact)

Published September 22, 2008 at 10:17 p.m.

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Now, about that defense.

Yes, the Broncos are 3-0 and scoring points like Air Coryell. Their offense ranks second in the NFL. Everyone except them is amazed. In private, they might even be a little bit amazed.

On the flip side, their defense ranks 28th in points allowed (28 per game) and 30th in yards allowed. Their pass defense ranks 32nd, also known as last. The Saints' Drew Brees passed for more yards (421) than any other NFL quarterback in Week 3.

Generally speaking, teams with defensive rankings like these don't win championships. In fact, Mike Shanahan used to preach the correlation between top-five scoring defenses and Super Bowl champions.

In his team's defense - and it could certainly use one - Shanahan points out it is doing much better against the run (106 yards per game) than it did last year (142.6). After all, if you can stop the run, you can work to improve against the pass. If you can't stop the run, your opponent has no reason to pass.

But it's also worth mentioning that LaDainian Tomlinson and Deuce McAllister were injured when the Chargers and Saints came to town, and that the Broncos took quick leads that required both visitors to switch to comeback mode early. Against comeback mode, the Broncos gave up a lot of ground and a lot of points.

Shanahan again mentioned a new scheme, but it wasn't clear if he was talking about the change at defensive coordinator or the surprising deployment of a 3-4 defense at times Sunday.

For a minute there, I was looking for Barney Chavous, Rubin Carter and Rulon Jones. When an outside linebacker came up to blitz, I thought it might be Tom Jackson.

If Shanahan was referring merely to the change in defensive administrations, it isn't much of an excuse. Bob Slowik basically took over for Jim Bates midway through last season. And it's hard to make the case that during the offseason they can put in a complex passing game - also with a new coordinator - but not a defense.

If it's the 3-4, that's a much more promising problem. For a coach who believes personnel dictates game plans and not the other way around, as Shanahan does, the 3-4 is nothing more than an admission that you have better linebackers than linemen.

This is how the Patriots have generated their pass rush during the Bill Belichick era. It has been six years since a defensive lineman led the Patriots in sacks, and even then Richard Seymour had to share the distinction with linebacker Willie McGinest. For the past five seasons, a linebacker led them every time.

The Broncos frequently deployed upright linebackers on either side of their down linemen when they went 3-4 Sunday. Brees had no trouble negotiating this wrinkle. In fact, the Saints had better luck throwing than running against it. But then, Brees is one of the most capable quarterbacks around and the Broncos were taking their first look at the 3-4 in a game setting.

"Even though it didn't work out, I think it'll pay dividends down the line," Shanahan said Monday.

The disadvantage of a four-man front, as Shanahan pointed out, is its predictability. Except for some exotic zone drops, the opposing offense generally knows that on a pass play, the four linemen are coming. If somebody blitzes to help, he gives away the coverage scheme.

A 3-4 provides more flexibility. The outside 'backers can come, creating a five-man front, or they can drop into coverage and the inside 'backers can come, or any other combination you can think of.

"You've got to feel good about your linebackers to play that," Shanahan said. "Jamie Winborn played exceptionally well against the Raiders and the preseason games when Boss (Bailey) was out, so we do have the luxury now to do some three-man looks, which, maybe in the past, with five linebackers (on the roster), you didn't.

"But we have seven on our team now and we believe it fits some of the things we can do. I'm not going to give you our game plan, but it does give us the ability to change things up a little bit more."

This looks like the best chance the Broncos have to mount some sort of pass rush. For all the changes in scheme and coordinators, their weak link defensively is still up front.

Their first two draft picks of 2007 were supposed to solve this problem. Instead, defensive linemen Jarvis Moss and Tim Crowder take turns being inactive on game day and the Broncos have the same defensive ranking that got Bates fired.

Granted, the Chargers and Saints are two of the best offenses in football. The hapless Chiefs should provide considerable statistical relief this week.

Still, when you give up 500 yards of offense to anybody, that's not good.

If it can stay healthy, the Broncos offense will hold up its end this year. The defense is still looking for a way to do the same.

Comments

  • September 23, 2008

    3:01 a.m.

    Suggest removal

    Horvil_Tiki writes:

    I hate the three man rush guy, cant stand it. But if bring a lined back in up to rusht to makey the sacks and be the creatives I is ok with this guy.

  • September 23, 2008

    4:19 a.m.

    Suggest removal

    smaestas writes:

    I think the 3-4 can be a good thing, but the teams that have run it sucessfully usually bring constant pressure. It seemed like, we ended up dropping all 4 linebackers into coverage over and over. Each time, Bree's picked them apart. What is the point of doing a 3-4 if you don't take advantage of the "advantages" it gives you.

  • September 23, 2008

    7:39 a.m.

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    hdfresh writes:

    A 3-4 defense will work if we can put some pressure on the quarterback. Brees had all day to pass the ball Sunday, hence his 421 yard performance. Dumerville and Moss needs to step up their game a bit.

  • September 23, 2008

    7:41 a.m.

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    michaelinbasalt writes:

    All that we heard last year and this off season was "we don't have the personnel" to run a 3-4. What as changed? Oh, I guess we don't have the personnel to run a 4-3 either so it doesn't matter what the scheme is. Simple formula: no pass rush, no playoffs.

  • September 23, 2008

    8:49 a.m.

    Suggest removal

    Jubei writes:

    What am I missing here?

    I thought the key to an effective 3-4 alignment was a huge, but mobile nose tackle that can occupy two offensive linemen and provide an interior pass rush (see Jamal Williams and Vince Wilfork). Since we can't get an interior pass rush using a 4-3 one-gap system, how the hell are we supposed to get it in a 3-4?

    I also agree with smaestas that rushing 3 down linemen out of the 3-4 every time negates the benefits of the scheme. Isn't the idea to make the opposing QB make his best guess about where the fourth rusher is coming from?

    If our D is going to leak yards and points anyway, why not take some risks with some exotic blitzes (a la the Eagles vs Big Ben)?

    Jason

  • September 23, 2008

    9:44 a.m.

    Suggest removal

    Kslayer writes:

    Being a former Defnesive Lineman, I have to say....... I hate the 3-4. You have to be a fantastic D lineman to put any type of pressure on the QB. You are going to get two offinsive lineman on you every time. We all know that Denver has no superior D lineman. when running the 3-4 you should always have some type of blitz coming from somewhere. Slo-wick drops all his linbackers and gives the QB all day to throw. When the QB realizes there are far to many d-backs down the field, all he has to do is throw a short pass out to the back. (See Sproles)!!! Then, it's off to the races down the wide open field. Any one who has played defense knows that an open field tackle is extremely difficult. This is why we see Denvers D backs missing tackles and running off balance and backwards when the ball carrier is out in the open after the quick pass. Please Slo-wick, give the D line some help and get creative with the blitz!!!! If you don't, it's going to be a long season for your defense.

  • September 23, 2008

    10:09 a.m.

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    Blind_Pete writes:

    The Broncos have lacked a pass rush even dating back to the Super Bowl seasons. The difference was Greg Robinson's creative blitz packages. It was a gambling defense to go along with a power offense. It worked on the whole. But when Robinson's gambles got burned a few times, Shanahan fired him. Never should have done that. Until we have the personnel, we need Robinson's creative blitz packages.

  • September 23, 2008

    10:15 a.m.

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    BornOrange writes:

    As stated earlier, the advantage of the 3-4 against the pass is the mystery of the 4th or 5th rusher. Often, Denver ONLY rushed the 3 linemen, dropping all 4 LBs into zone coverage, therefore, eliminating the advantage. We got D-Rob for nothing from NYJ because he was not efficient or comfortable as a 3-4 NoseTackle, and now that's what we're asking him to do here??? He's best in the 3Tech position in the 4-3. If we're going to continue to assign 8 men to the "Box" to stop the run, why not keep the 4-3, turn J-Moss loose, and continue to cover for his run-defense deficiencies by cheating a SAF over to his gap. At least give him a chance to prove his worthiness as a pass-rush specialist before he's officially considered a bust. If the opposing offense is going to rack-up yards and points anyway, at least make the QB pay for it by knocking him on his butt a few times. Then maybe we can force him into a couple of mistakes, which is when our DBs will be able to step-up and get some turn-overs. And remember the old adage, "the only thing the prevent defense dose is prevent you from winning." We have to stay agressive! Look at the Philly Def: They are smallish and fast, like ours, but they swarm, pressure, and penetrate consistently- that's what we need to do!

  • September 23, 2008

    10:18 a.m.

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    Jubei writes:

    Good points, Slayer.

    It also seems like when the Broncs do blitz, they broadcast the fact. No disguising or movement. And not much in the way of stunts or line movement to find and exploit match ups. Actually, there is a lot of movement, but it seems to mostly from confusion, and after DJ or Champ tells somebody where they are supposed to be.

    I thought this defense was supposed to be simpler and let the players use their instincts. I'm not seeing that as a whole with this squad.

    DJ does look VERY good back at the Will, though. I think he bails out Webster on quite a few plays.

    I'll admit I haven't been looking too close, but where the heck is Robertson? Has he even been activated?

    Jason

  • September 23, 2008

    10:32 a.m.

    Suggest removal

    DeimosJB writes:

    I agree with Michael and Jubei. We've been told all off-season that we don't have the guys for a 3-4. In particular, we've been told, "we don't have a guy who can be the NT in a 3-4". I understand that we have good LB's, but who's going to be the NT? Oh well, I guess I don't really care. As long as Bates brings 4 rushers at a minimum (the more rushers, the better) and starts getting some pressure on the QB, I don't care if he does it from a 3 man front. Frankly, he should bring 9 man rushes about the first 10 plays of the game. Hit the QB every play. If they only have to cover for 1.5 seconds, Bailey and Bly will be fine. The opposing QB and RB will not.

  • September 23, 2008

    10:38 a.m.

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    Bradonkadoncs writes:

    Two thumbs up for BurnOrange's comments. Took the blog right out of my mouth.

  • September 23, 2008

    11:34 a.m.

    Suggest removal

    jvill writes:

    michaelinbasalt writes: All that we heard last year and this off season was "we don't have the personnel" to run a 3-4. What as changed?

    From the article:

    "You've got to feel good about your linebackers to play that," Shanahan said. "Jamie Winborn played exceptionally well against the Raiders and the preseason games when Boss (Bailey) was out, so we do have the luxury now to do some three-man looks, which, maybe in the past, with five linebackers (on the roster), you didn't.

    "But we have seven on our team now and we believe it fits some of the things we can do. I'm not going to give you our game plan, but it does give us the ability to change things up a little bit more."

    This edition of Read the Article Before You Comment On It brought to you by the Letter J.

  • September 23, 2008

    12:07 p.m.

    Suggest removal

    Jubei writes:

    jvill:

    So a surplus of linebackers automatically means that we should run a 3-4? I'm all for changing things up, and showing different looks, but again, you MUST HAVE a dominant NT to run a 3-4 as your base defense. Everything starts up front, and everything up front starts in the middle. It got a little old seeing Rivers and Brees step up into the pocket to get away from the outside pressure when there was no inside push. If you look at last years Giants D line, they had great inside and outside pass rushers. I really believe that our DEs, LBs and secondary would look a lot better with some inside pressure. Look at what SD did to Farve last night.

    I don't see anywhere that the Broncs are changing their overall philosophy to that of the 3-4, but what is the point when your D line is bad whether there are 3 or 4 linemen on the field? Opposing O lines seem to have no problem blocking four down linemen or three down linemen and a LB. (Even their backup tackles are looking good against the Bronco pass rush).

    That said, at least this D is getting some key stops. We just need some 3rd down D so that Jay and the offense can get back on the field and score more points.

    Jason

  • September 23, 2008

    1:09 p.m.

    Suggest removal

    gatengreen writes:

    I don't know what you should call the defense that they ran in the 2nd quarter last Sunday. Looked an awful lot like a 3-8 to me. No pressure on the QB and try and cover the field for as long as Brees wanted to stand and look for someone to come open.

    Bottom line, it doesn't work and when they tried to switch up in the third quarter to put more pressure on Brees their best rushers were worn out going three against five until their tounges were hanging down to their knees.

  • September 23, 2008

    1:48 p.m.

    Suggest removal

    elgin99 writes:

    Hang in there Kreiger, the Broncos will evently lose and you
    can unleash your Bronco hate, however, at 3-0 your jumping
    the gun. Kreiger thinks we should use the 3-4? Wow, I'm impressed he knows what that is.

  • September 23, 2008

    1:51 p.m.

    Suggest removal

    Cutlers_the_bomb writes:

    I think that if we have that many quality linebackers we should trade some of them for a dominant pass rushing DE. One candidate would be Mark Anderson from the Bears, as he has just about as many sacks in the past 2 years as Dumervil, and was in the same draft class as him, too. The biggest thing is he's stuck behind Alex Brown in Chicago, so we would be making hungry to prove himself if we traded for him and gave him a chance to become the full-time starter. Why shouldn't we at least try to see if anyone is willing to trade with us? Too bad that the Giants won't give up Justin Tuck (could you imagine the terror quarterbacks would feel against him and Dumervil? That would make me s&*^ my pants!!!). Another candidate could be that Ray Edwards from Minnesota, who's next to Jared Allen, or maybe even try for Aaron Smith from Pittsburgh. Last suggestion would be to try for Alex Brown. I think we need someone who can get to the quarterback as well so that they can't double team Dumervil all the time. If we can get someone capable of rushing the passer consistently on the opposite side of Dumervil, then we can become a sack machine. I really think our D-Line started going downhill when we let Trevor Pryce go. I think he was worth the money, because he was more valuable to our team than what we originally thought. Any way we could possibly get him back?
    Also, with a 3-4, we also need a lot bigger D-Ends. I think they were just flirting with the idea because of the skill we have at linebacker, but we shouldn't use it unless Slowik starts calling more blitzes. Another D-Coordinator that shouldn't have been fired was Larry Coyer. While our pass defense s&^ed those years, we still won games, and our rush defense was AMAZING! We were constantly in the top 5 year in, year out against the run. Also, our pass defense increased tremendously once we got Champ and Darrent Williams was across from him. We were in the top 5 overall in defense our AFC Championship year, yet we got rid of him the year after, even though our defense didn't allow many points, and our defense has s*^&ed ever since. I think his scheme of smoke and mirrors was the best we ever had, because the opponents never knew who was going to blitz, let alone where we were going to blitz. That also gave Champ his 8 pick season that year, too. So why not use that scheme again? We have the athletic linebackers to do it, so why not gamble, and see how it pays off? Granted, should probably try it against someone better than the Chiefs, especially since they won't be a good gauge of where we are at.

  • September 23, 2008

    1:51 p.m.

    Suggest removal

    Milehigh_7 writes:

    The 3-4 can work but we can't do it with 4 of our current linebackers and it can't be a traditional 3-4.

    We are going to have to be creative and use our "tweener" Defensive Ends as linebackers in various spots to generate pass rush from a standing position.

    This will also allow an extra big body to assist with run support.

    I honestly believe if done correctly, they may be on to something. It may be the ideal way to use Moss with his athleticism.

  • September 23, 2008

    6:10 p.m.

    Suggest removal

    jbowen43 writes:

    The 34 worked in the late seventies because of the personnel and I don't see anyone here that can duplicate that line. Remember it was a very effective run stopper, but you had a safety and a corner that made stops in the backfield and a great nose tackle. I see a corner that can do that but the safety left town. You tell me if they have a Rubin Carter.

  • September 23, 2008

    9:05 p.m.

    Suggest removal

    OPETH72 writes:

    I am not sure that changing your base defense during the regular season is such a great idea, but I heard today that the Broncos have given up 38, yes, 38 pass plays of over 10 yards in the first the games. This leads the league in a stat you don't want to lead in. And the article mentioned briefly that the run defense's stats are a bit skewed. That is exactly right. In game one, the Raiders were actually running the ball well against us, until our offense made running the ball useless for them. And SD and NO have actual well rounded offenses. So once we got up so quick, why would they run? Not to mention, if you have a QB that is pretty good, and a line that is just at 75%, you can't wait to get the ball in the air against a team that can't stop the pass. Again, I ask, why run? You know you can score on the pass plays. So I am not even sure the run D is really that much better. I really hope that Shanny can hit some draft gold on defense the next couple of years the way he has with offense the last few. That may be the only way there is a solid improvement. I honestly do not want to wait for that, so I hope this D we have now just gets down to what has to be done.