Post DVD in poor taste

Marianne Weigand, Arvada

Published September 20, 2008 at 12:05 a.m.

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September 20, 2008

7:51 a.m.

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LetsThink writes:

Perhaps Marianne could tell us how we can learn the TRUTH about terrorists......and have it be 'in good taste'.

I'm sorry, but that statement has no meaning.

America needs to wake up, very quickly! Othewise we will be destroyed by the terrorists. Is that what we want to happen to our children and grandchildren??
September 20, 2008

8:05 a.m.

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Michael writes:

Can the truth about a threat to our country and our citizens ever be in "bad taste"? I agree with LetsThink on this, that statement is absurd and meaningless. White shoes after Labor Day are in bad taste. Drinking wine from a plastic cup is in bad taste. Telling your boss what you really think of him/her at the Christmas Party (oops....I meant "holiday gathering") is probably in bad taste. A film that shows actual footage of the indoctrination of Muslim children, hate filled speeches that encourage violence and attacks towards the west by Islamic leaders, video of the 9.11 attacks, and sensible and reasoned analysis by moderate Muslims and others with tons of experience on this issue is something that we all should value and take seriously. There is a lot of "outrage" over this video and how it was delivered, but it would seem there is not nearly enough for the factual contents and what it means to all non-Muslims throughout the world from radical Islam - not all islam as was mentioned many times in the film.
September 20, 2008

9:48 a.m.

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jgd writes:

OG,

***Can someone answer the true questions here? "Who paid for, and who profits from, this current effort to plunge the world into endless strife, neighbor against neighbor?***

1. Don't care who paid for it, just glad they did
2. The US and any freedom loving country.
3. I would not consider "Muslim terrorists" who want to kill every freedom loving individual as my neighbor, you may but I don't.
September 20, 2008

9:56 a.m.

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raysmom writes:

How in the world is this hate-mongering? Good grief! Nobody's making this up! The only hate-mongering going on is within the extremist Muslim agenda. What kind of mental m@sturb@tion are people doing to avoid facing this issue??!! I think it was just very factual and non-partisan- just a little wake-up call to those who think our insulated society is safe. People all over the world are really SUFFERING at the hands of this hate-cult, and all some people can do is try to find something comprehensible out of a non-comprehensible situation- blaming the victims and their own country. Tasteless? No, but it sure left a "bad taste" in MY mouth.
September 20, 2008

10:30 a.m.

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LetsThink writes:

Great point, raysmom.

It's frightening how some people twist the truth.
September 20, 2008

10:56 a.m.

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SheikYurBooty writes:

Marianne - what offends you more: Islamists sluaghtering innocents by the thousands for the "crime" of not being Muslims (or not being the right flavor of Muslim), or daring to report that ugly truth??
September 20, 2008

11:26 a.m.

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SheikYurBooty writes:

And the beat goes on... (unless it turns out this was perpetrated by a bunch Methodists or some such)

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/21/wor...
September 20, 2008

11:39 a.m.

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SheikYurBooty writes:

More and more:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080919/w...
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
September 20, 2008

12:16 p.m.

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Michael writes:

Islam: The religion of peace (and a big stack of dead bodies)
Sheik - So true, so sad, and actually funny in a very twisted way. Thanks for the link.
September 20, 2008

12:58 p.m.

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popo writes:

Hate-mongering , neo-cons will be happy to know that next week, a copy of "The Turner Diaries" will be on your doorstep, and he week after that..(to make sure it's before the elections) "Mein Kampf" will show up for your reading pleasure.

And to satisfy all those rascist feelings too many Americans harbor.

Seriously though, I'd cancel my subscription, but as we all know, the RMN, Derver Post, Colorado Springs Gazette, Longmont Times-Call, Daily Camera, Colorado Daily, and most other publishings along the Front Range are owned by the same Corporation, who does a supreme job of censoring Liberal ideas , as well as convincing most misguided and easily led white trash that we have a "liberal media".
September 20, 2008

1:35 p.m.

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SheikYurBooty writes:

popo - Mein Kampf = 20th century hate, relegated to the dustbin of history after scores of millions killed.

Mein Quran = 7th centurt hate, still alive and kicking and growing every day. Death tole in the many millions, lives ruined in the hundereds of millions, and COUNTING.

****************************

wechasa - what is the point of those links? Surely you are not comparing them to http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/ ????

When it comes to wholesale, systemic, and completely abetted intimidation, subjugation, and killing, Isalm stands alone. Please don't reach back hundreds of years for examples of genocide that were done by self-proclaimed Christians. Their actions are universally condemned whereas ongoing Muslim atrocities are met with a yawn by Muslims, who simply parrot the excuse that "Isalm is under attack and we must fight back." 9/11, 7/7 (London), 3/11 (Madrid), the Beslan slaughter of hundreds of schoolchildren were all "fighting back." Don't become a dhimmi.
http://www.dhimmi.com/
September 20, 2008

3:21 p.m.

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LetsThink writes:

Wechasa, I couldn't tell where you were going. Confusing.

Popo, not to be disagreeable....but I don't think what you said, is true. But you certainly have the right to your 'opinion'.
September 20, 2008

3:42 p.m.

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popo writes:

SYB,
I hate to burst your bubble, but racism is alive and well in the 21st century....As a matter of fact, we can turn on Fox news and see it every day...24-7

Or tune into our "good friend" Rush, to hear the same crap.

Megadittos,
Popocatepetl
September 20, 2008

3:50 p.m.

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popo writes:

SYB,
You also may want to check out perky little Sarah Palins' church for more insight as to where so-called "Christians", and "Joels' Army" want to lead us.

I might want to take a stiff drink of your favorite alcoholic beverage first, though.
September 20, 2008

5:49 p.m.

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GetReal writes:

Sheik-

You feeling OK?

Your comments today give me hope not all Dems are brainwashed regarding the threat of Radical Islam.

Keep it up my man.
September 20, 2008

5:52 p.m.

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LetsThink writes:

I thought we were talking about the serious threat of radical Islam.

Somehow we went off on tangents.
September 20, 2008

6:02 p.m.

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GetReal writes:

And to the letter writer Marianne-

Just keep your eyes closed, your index fingers planted firmly in your ears, and continue chanting lalalalala,I cant hear you,lalalalala....

What you don't know can't hurt you.

Ignorance is bliss.

Right?
September 20, 2008

6:11 p.m.

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SheikYurBooty writes:

popo - I didn't post about race or racism, but about the fascist ideology of Islam. The goofiness of Sarah Palin's or any other cult is a red herring - none of them are inspiring people to go out and kill in the name of their god(s) or goddess(es). Only Islam does that.

Here is a timeless, ongoing call to kill Jews, from the hadith, i.e. the traditions of the prophet, and taken as an example to follow by devout Muslims in 2008:
Volume 4, Book 52, Number 176:
Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar:

Allah's Apostle said, "You (i.e. Muslims) will fight wi the Jews till some of them will hide behind stones. The stones will (betray them) saying, 'O 'Abdullah (i.e. slave of Allah)! There is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him.' "

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundament...

Look at the notes of theso-called "Tarheel Jihadist" just convicted of attmpted murder - he cites the Quran over and over as motivation for his hate:
http://jihadwatch.org/archives/022191...

Christians and others who hate and kill are straying from the reservation and are sinning and are NOT supported by the leaders of their proclaimed religions (you might have to go Aryan Nation here in rebuttal - as if they were legitimate Christians by any stretch of the imagination, other than their own self-serving assertions). Muslims who kill and terrorize on the other hand are following the most basic tenets of their creed.
Christians have killed and butchered throughout history, and in every case it was a sin (find the words of Christ where he advocates violence, threats, treachery, etc).
Muslims have and continue to butcher, and as long as it advances Islam, it is a scarament. Inn fact, the ONLY guaranteed way for a Muslin to attain paradise is to die fighting for Islam. Now, think what happens when people believe that and take it to heart. Can you spell 9/11?
September 20, 2008

6:14 p.m.

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SheikYurBooty writes:

GetReal - I am a long-standing Republican. But I am sometimes confused with a Democrat because, unlike all too many GOPers these days, I am an American first, a conservative (as opposed to an economic feudalist) second, and a Republican only third.

And I've never felt better, thank you, except that this rush to dhimmitude can get one down.
September 20, 2008

6:46 p.m.

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grandpaw writes:

Can you spell Inquisition, witch burnings, Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Dresden, Tokyo, Philippines, Latin America, slavery, Holocaust, Trail of Tears and, of course, Iraq? As long as we have complete idiots who have the utterly asinine, and imminently dangerous, idea that there are more than a billion people out there who think they must kill for Islam, we will also have people like Bush who will take advantage of such sick bigotry.

Example of gross bigotry and crass ignorance: the hundred or whatever people behind 9/11 were Muslims; ipso facto, the billion or so Muslims in the world want to kill us.

Reckon how many of the more than a billion Muslims Sheik knows?

And how many does he judge? More than a billion. People who so blithely judge a billion people they do not know have caused a great deal of the problems of the world. Sheik is reminiscent of the "good old days" of slavery and Jim Crow, except worse.

Is Sheik any kind of expert on the Islam religion? You bet your booties he knows very little about it. Ignorance is the main ingredient of bigotry, although stupidity is not far behind.
September 20, 2008

7:05 p.m.

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SheikYurBooty writes:

grandpaw: "Reckon how many of the more than a billion Muslims Sheik knows?"

About a dozen.

"And how many does he judge? More than a billion."
My comments were on Islam, but it is true that Muslims, by definition, subscribe to Islam. Look - I am well aware that just as most "Christians" aren't sitting around all day dreaming up new and improved ways to love their neighbor, so too most "Muslims" aren't cooking up plots to kill non-Muslims. Most Muslims, like most Christians are "social" members of the sect. But those who really take Islam to heart, and who revere Muhammed as "uswa hasana" - an excellent example of conduct" - see where it says in Islamic literature (that is accepted and endorsed by all 4 major Sunni schools and the single Shiite school of Islamic jurisprudence) to "smite the necks" of unbelievers (no-that does not mean give them a love hickey - it means slit their throats and behead them) and to "strike terror in the hearts" of non-believers and they devote their lives to that. They believe that the only sure way to paradise is to die as a "shahid" - a "martyr." This is why we see Palestinian mothers lauding the deaths of their children. They read this from Sahih Muslim (4294) and take to as a call to action:

"This is in accord with Muhammad's directions: "Fight in the name of Allah and in the way of Allah. Fight against those who disbelieve in Allah. Make a holy war…When you meet your enemies who are polytheists, invite them to three courses of action. If they respond to any one of these, you also accept it and withhold yourself from doing them any harm. Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them….If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya [the tax on non-Muslims specified in Qur’an 9:29]. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah’s help and fight them."

What part of "demand from them the Jizya" and "fight them" (that means YOU and your grandchildren grandpaw) do you not understand?

"Is Sheik any kind of expert on the Islam religion?"
I don't use the term "expert" lightly so I would demur here. But I do know more than the average bear. It started when I was studying Arabic. It turns out that it is hard to study Arabic w/o getting the Quran and Islam served as a side dish. Or rather, as the main course.
September 20, 2008

7:07 p.m.

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grandpaw writes:

Correction:

I said: "Is Sheik any kind of expert on the Islam religion?"

I should have said: "Is Sheik any kind of expert on the Muslim people?"

You can't tell what people on earth today think by reading a book written over a thousand years ago. To judge a person, you have to know that person.

That there are millions and millions of good and loving Muslims is something that no intelligent person would deny, unless his brain is overloaded with bigotry. That there are millions and millions of Muslims who have no desire to kill anyone is something that no intelligent person would deny, unless his brain has been corrupted by bigotry.

If a Muslim couple, with their children, walks past you this evening, will you be thinking of them as persons who are out to kill you? Sheik will.

There are a number of Muslim families who live in proximity to where I live. I suppose if I were Sheik I'd be sleeping with a gun on my chest. Instead, I prefer to have nice visits with them and play with their children. I wonder how close to a Muslim Sheik has been? How well does he know a single Muslim?

The average Muslim is not nearly as much of a danger to world peace as the average Sheik.
September 20, 2008

7:13 p.m.

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SheikYurBooty writes:

PS grandpaw - that litany of horrors you list all count as sins in most religins, including Christianity as I understand it. Similar horrors committed in the name of Islam are NEVER sincerely repudiated and horrors committed by Muslims are rarely rebuked. What for most people is a sadistic sin is for many a Muslim a blessed sacrament. Can you imagine this happening in a non-Muslim society?? -

http://www.israelunitycoalition.org/n...

No word on the fate of the father, but what he did is not a crime under sharia and the worst thing that might happen to him is that he will be told to be more discreet next time, so as not to give more "ammunition" to people like me. Which would beg the question: why is behaving in accordance with Sharia a source of "ammunition" to normal people???
September 20, 2008

7:22 p.m.

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SheikYurBooty writes:

grandpaw - plese reign in your assumptions and prejudices.
"If a Muslim couple, with their children, walks past you this evening, will you be thinking of them as persons who are out to kill you? Sheik will."
Ridiculous. The best analogy that I have heard is that Islam is like the Mafia - most Italians were not Mafia, in fact were the first and greatest victims of the Mafia (as most Muslims are victims of Islam) but there could exist a perverse loyalty in an "us-them" dynamic where non-Mafia Italians still abet and support Mafiosos. Ditto Islam and Muslims.

"I suppose if I were Sheik I'd be sleeping with a gun on my chest."
If you knew me, you'd know I have never owned a gun and don't plan to.

"I wonder how close to a Muslim Sheik has been? How well does he know a single Muslim?"
The guy who hired me and moved me to Colorado was a Muslim (social only though).
I have spent many hours at the Abu Bakr mosque (Parker Rd, north of Iliff) and have attended their open houses and Eid al Fitr at the end of Ramadan there as well. At this point, it is a little of "opposition research" I will admit. But don't accuse me of ignorance or bigotry, for you know not of what you speak.
September 20, 2008

7:44 p.m.

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SheikYurBooty writes:

I normally wouldn't do a cut/paste post like this, but some might be interested:

Free Films for Islamo-Fascism Awareness Week!

During the week of October 13-17, more than 100 campuses will launch a campaign: “Stop the Jihad on Campus” to make the university community aware of the support provided for the jihadists' agendas by organizations on American university campuses. Over 100 campuses will participate in this Islamo-Fascism Awareness Week by hosting speakers, showing films, holding memorial services for the victims of terror, and other means of raising awareness of the threat from radical Islam.
For a limited time only, the David Horowitz Freedom Center is providing FREE COPIES of several ground-breaking films on the terrorist threat to students who plan to screen them on their campuses.

Normally, these films would cost you about $100, but we will provide a FREE COPY of the movie(s) of your choice to screen during Islamo-Fascism Awareness Week. We will also add your campus to the list of schools participating in Islamo-Fascism Awareness Day on our website, www.terrorismawareness.org.
The films available for screening are:

The Path to 9/11

Obsession (this was the DVD in the paper)

Islam: What the West Needs to Know

Islam v. Islamists

More information on holding other events (speakers, protests, petition drives, memorial services, etc) is available in our Student Guide to Islamo-Fascism Awareness Week, to be found at www.terrorismawareness.org.

Other literature and materials for Stop the Jihad on Campus Week are available on our website, www.terrorismawareness.org <http://www.terrorismawareness.org/> .

To participate in Islamo-Fascism Awareness Week and to get your FREE COPY of one of more of the above films to screen during Islamo-Fascism Awareness Week, please contact Jeffrey Wienir at jeffrey@horowitzfreedomcenter.org or at 800-752-6562, ext. 206.
September 20, 2008

9:14 p.m.

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popo writes:

Sheik'
As a matter of fact I CAN spell 9/11...nine-eleven...
and so can Rudy Giuliani , George Bush and J.S McCain...over and over and overand over. but that doesn't make them qualified to be President....ANY of them.

Especially when it happened on W.Bush's watch, and his Daddy was watching T.V with his "good friend" and business partner Bin-Laden as the first plane hit the WTC.

And, since you fancy yourself to be an expert at theology, you may want to familiarize yourself with the phrase "Judge not, lest ye be judged".

All that aside.....Sarah Palin, in my humble opinion, is a judgemental fruitcake.
And J.S McCain has proven himself to be easily swayed by a pretty face, a nice pair, and a water-boy for End-Timer Extremists.
September 20, 2008

9:43 p.m.

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haddock writes:

SheikYurBooty

You've done this before. I suggest you learn Arabic and then read a real Koraan. I really think translations (especially into English) don't work. You also need to stop equating Islam with terrorism. People like you just give those radicals support among the peoples of the middle east. The truth is that these terrorists hate two things only. First of all, they hate the fact that we prop up authoritarian Arab regimes like the Saudi royal family and Mubarak of Egypt. Secondly, they really hate the absolute support we give Israel in the captured Arab lands. No matter how bad they may be, they exist and are not ostracized in the Arab world because of our behavior only. If we did not support the dictatorships in the Arab world and did not support Israel, they would be totally eliminated by the other Muslims that you malign.
September 20, 2008

9:49 p.m.

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haddock writes:

By the way, for all of you that use the term "Islamo-fascist". I can only believe it is code used by red-necked racists who in fact, hate anyone that is a Muslim. They have now become the Jews of the 21st century. Boy, history repeats its self.
September 20, 2008

11:27 p.m.

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Reason writes:

Old Generalization, I see you have two accounts that you post on now. How cute!
September 20, 2008

11:39 p.m.

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freemarketworks writes:

castafiore wrote: "By the way, for all of you that use the term "Islamo-fascist". I can only believe it is code used by red-necked racists who in fact, hate anyone that is a Muslim. They have now become the Jews of the 21st century. Boy, history repeats its self."

Are you comparing America to Nazi Germany? I pray this isn’t the case; however, I’ve heard it too often from those leftist elitists that have no grip on reality, or the truth.

Personally, I prefer the term “Islamo-terrorists.” The DVD insert was provided by the “Clarion Fund” (http://clarionfund.org), which uses the term “Radical Islam” to define a growing movement of religious brainwashing that is targeting the United States and Western Civilization in general. From what I can gather, the Clarion Fund considers the U.S. dependency on foreign oil to be a huge threat to our national security; I agree.

Playing the race card is simply ignorant and goes back to the typical Barrack Obama/Bill Ayers/Noam Chomsky philosophy that the United States of America is to blame for all of the problems in the World.

Having been held hostage and tortured by “islamo-terrorists,” namely al qaeda. I’ll continue fighting for the day that the U.S. is energy independent and no longer funding those idiot ideologues that won’t quit until Islam is forced down the throat of every individual in the World. These groups practice Sharia Law, stoning and clitoral mutilation. Not to mention, suicide bombers and sawing off heads.

Any mention of protecting individual freedom and American sovereignty draws claims of racism from the left elitists. While our American Armed Forces are overseas fighting and dying for what is right and for your freedom to call them “nazi’s”, my blood is boiling!
September 21, 2008

6:16 a.m.

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haddock writes:

freemarketworks

Buddy,

Racism is in fact alive and well in the US. The latest yahoo poll blaring across our front pages proves it. Don't talk to me about freedom loving people when "animal farm" is probably more correct (freedom for the right people...white, gun-toting, environment busting and jingoistic Republicans). Also, Chomsky is probably the greatest linguist to have ever graced this country, so don't use his name in vain. It might help you to sometimes go a little deeper into things than the sophomoric antics of the right and its typical non-analytical blame game.
September 21, 2008

6:47 a.m.

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grandpaw writes:

Just an example of Sheik's sick paranoia:

"Their actions are universally condemned whereas ongoing Muslim atrocities are met with a yawn by Muslims, who simply parrot the excuse that "Isalm is under attack and we must fight back."

When you find some brain dead person speaking in absolutes like this, you know you are dealing with a bigot. It is the hallmark of bigotry. Of course, Skeik has no idea how each of more than a billion Muslims react. But the truth and common sense fail to make a showing when a bigot is spouting.

Sheik is now in his back-pedaling mode, trying to act like he is not quite the bigot he painted himself to be. "Well, I guess there could be a few of them who aren't out to kill Christians".

Sheik says he knows about 12 Muslims. That's something over a billion short of knowing all of the ones he judges as though he knows them as well. You can be sure that none of those 12 have indicated to Sheik that they want to kill him because he is a pseudo Christian. If he were to judge Muslims on the basis of those he knows, rather than those he doesn't know, he would come up with a different view of Muslims.

No one could read Sheik's bigotry and think he is an authentic Christian.
September 21, 2008

6:48 a.m.

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SheikYurBooty writes:

popo - I am no expert on theology and don't fancy myself that. I do know a thing or two about fascism, hence my interest in Islam.

castafiore: "You've done this before."
Done what before? Talked about the ugly truth of Islam? Sorry if the truth hurts.

"I suggest you learn Arabic and then read a real Koraan. I really think translations (especially into English) don't work."
Only a fluent Arabic/English speaker could make this assertion. Are you fluent in Arabic?

BTW - this is a game the Islamic apologists play - "unless you read the Quran in Arabic, you cannot possibly know what it says and you will misunderstand it and take it out of context." Do you need to read Aramaic to understand the Bible? German to read "Mein Kampf?" Neither do you need to read Arabic for the Quran and Hadith.

"You also need to stop equating Islam with terrorism."
It's bin Laden, al-Qaeda, al Zawaheri, yesterday's Marriott bombers (presumably - still no definitive word on the perps - could turn out to be some pissed off Presbyterians or the Hilton hotel organization - don't want to rush to judgement) who do that. Maybe they read this in the Quran:
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/008...

"Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies, of Allah and your enemies, and others besides, whom ye may not know, but whom Allah doth know. Whatever ye shall spend in the cause of Allah, shall be repaid unto you, and ye shall not be treated unjustly." (translated by Yusufali - others accept his validity, even if you reject his work).

Maybe the Madrid, London, and Beslan killers read "...to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies, of Allah and your enemies..." and misinterpreted that to mean something crazy like "...to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies, of Allah and your enemies..." As you are aware, the Quran is ALWAYS taken out of context.
September 21, 2008

6:50 a.m.

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SheikYurBooty writes:

castafiore:

"The truth is that these terrorists hate two things only."
Actually that hate us for not be Muslims, and for not subjugating ourselves to Sharia law under their clerics. This account of Muhammed's directive is from Sahih Muslim (4294) and is the Muslim equivalent of the Sermon on the Mount in importance:

"This is in accord with Muhammad's directions: "Fight in the name of Allah and in the way of Allah. Fight against those who disbelieve in Allah. Make a holy war…When you meet your enemies who are polytheists, invite them to three courses of action. If they respond to any one of these, you also accept it and withhold yourself from doing them any harm. Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them….If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya [the tax on non-Muslims specified in Qur’an 9:29]. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah’s help and fight them." (Please suffer through the translation - this blog doesn't accept Arabic script)

We must convert, submit, or be warred upon. That is a cornerstone Islamic dictate. Neither your denials nor my affirmations can change that.

Finally, your equating Muslims with Jews would be highly offensive to most Muslims, who proudly parade their anti-Semitism at every opportunity. Islam is a fascist, dehumanizing, inhumane, cruel, domineering, hegemonistic ideology and in that is akin to Nazism, and not Nazism's victims.
September 21, 2008

6:53 a.m.

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SheikYurBooty writes:

castafiore:

"Racism is in fact alive and well in the US."

True, but that is OT here. We are not discussing race. We are discussing Islam.
September 21, 2008

7:02 a.m.

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SheikYurBooty writes:

grandpaw - I might plead guilty to being a bigot, in that I am SEVERLY bigotted against Klansmen, Stalinists, Nazis, Islamists, White (and other) Supremacists, and Mafioso. Guilty as charged in this instance. Sorry (actually not) if that offends you.

"Skeik has no idea how each of more than a billion Muslims react."
Correct, and I don't have time in to meet all of the 1 billion Muslims out there. I don't pretend to know how they react, and their reactions no doubt span the gamut anyway (have you read Ayan Hirsi Ali's "Infidel" for example??) I just point out what their creed says and demands. Then it's a case of "read it and weep" or, as you and others seem to prefer, "read it and deny, read it and call names" etc.

"Well, I guess there could be a few of them who aren't out to kill Christians".
I never said that. Why are you resorting to making up quotes and then attacking your own fiction?

"No one could read Sheik's bigotry and think he is an authentic Christian."
I asked you in a previous post to reaign in your assumptions. I AM NOT A CHRISTIAN!! Please stop with the gratuitous insults!!! I life a 100% superstition-free life, FYI.
September 21, 2008

7:29 a.m.

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SheikYurBooty writes:

grandpaw - any chance you can cite an instance where Muslims have taken en masse to the streets to condemn the "hijacking" of their "religion??" Where they have condemned the ethnic cleansing of Christians in Iraq and Lebanon (read Brigette Gabriel for the gory details), or the oppression of Copts in Egypt? or condemned attacks on peaceful Hindus in Kashmir or the ongoing killings of peaceful Buddhists in southern Thailand? Or the bratulity of the Moro Islamic Liberation Front (yes, their acronym is MILF - but it's no laughing matter I assure you) in Mindinao? I seem to have missed those protestations, so maybe you can help.. Thanks.
September 21, 2008

8:22 a.m.

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haddock writes:

SheikYurBooty

Did you buy a translation of the Koraan. You seem to be proudly picking out lines from your translation and quoting them as if you really understood the faith. I should start quoting you the bloody sections out of the old testament too. In reality, you need to understand Hebrew to get any nuance that is lost with the umpteen English translations of the bible. English only people are pretty linear, which explains why we seem to only hear what "is said" rather than what "is meant". Most people outside of the US use nuance heavily (like the French)and that is something we can't deal with. large vocabularies are hard to grasp.
By the way, the people who are most likely to defend Moslems are Jews. Surprise, surprise. People who have been condemned because of their faith will be the strongest voice against it ever happening again to another people.
September 21, 2008

9:58 a.m.

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grandpaw writes:

The books I have read about non-Muslims who have traveled among Muslims, getting to know the people, invariably reflect a people who are extraordinarily gracious hosts to non-Muslim visitors. Most of them are quite poor, but what they have they will share with their guests, according to people who have gotten to know them as human beings. They are ordinary human beings whose lives are spent dealing with the same day-to-day problems as human beings in general. Very few of them spend their time wanting to kill Christians.

There is no difference whatsoever between the bigotry shown by people like Sheik and the racial bigotry that blighted the American scene for hundreds of years when the bigots accused all blacks of being like the black who committed some crime.
September 21, 2008

10:07 a.m.

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SheikYurBooty writes:

castafiore: "I should start quoting you the bloody sections out of the old testament too."

Please do. Some instances where an open-ended call to terrorize and/or kill would be germane. Also - you might look at the New Testament, since it is more recent and it defines the Christian religion, to which the OT is just a preamble.

Then, to really nail down the moral equivalence, cite cases in the modern era where people have acted on these biblical verses that you note to attack and kill. Who is beheading people to cries of
"Praise Jesus?"

As for Jews defending Muslims, that may be, but the sentiment is not mutual. Go here: http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/ and scroll down a bit to see the Muslim woman holding the sign reading "God bless Hitler." Yes - she is 1 person out of 1+ billion Muslims, but there were plenty of other like signs at that London hate fest by Muslims, and nary a protest about her sign or others similar. There have always been Jewish dhimmis, and you only have to look at Iranian Jews to understand - they are steadfastly "against" Israel and used as tools by Ahmejinidad. If they really expressed their feelings about Israel, they would next to the Bahais swinging at the end of a rope.

Don't be a dhimmi: http://www.dhimmi.com/

BTW - does any religion besides Islam even have the concept of dhimmitude - that non-members of the faith are second-class citizens??? Muhammed declared this. Can you find an analog from the Bible for me? It would really help, but I won't hold my breath. But thanks in advance for trying.
September 21, 2008

10:11 a.m.

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SheikYurBooty writes:

grandpaw: "Very few of them spend their time wanting to kill Christians." Exactly as I indicated in my 7:05 PM posting.

It would be nice if you could refute my points, where I usually include citations and references, and stop with the 7th grade name calling ("bigot"). It makes you look weak.

BTW - the RMN editors are notorious for deleting hate posts and bigotted comments. I have NEVER had a post deleted. That should tell you something right there. But none are so blind...
September 21, 2008

12:33 p.m.

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popo writes:

Sheik,
Honestly, now.....are you on meth?
September 21, 2008

1:11 p.m.

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grandpaw writes:

An example of raw bigotry:

Sheik: "ongoing Muslim atrocities are met with a yawn by Muslims, who simply parrot the excuse that "Isalm is under attack and we must fight back."

Notice the absolute: not "many Muslims", or "most Muslims", but simply "Muslims" with no exceptions or qualification.

That kind of absolutism is the hallmark of bigotry.

Of course, Sheik has no idea about how many Muslims act the way he describes. But common sense does not play a part is his statements such as that above. Nor does a sense of fairness. However, ignorance does. And superstition does. And paranoia does.
September 21, 2008

3:48 p.m.

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gs writes:

I watched the DVD and the figure that stands out is that only 10% agree that terrorisim is OK. That is 10% too many of course. But my point is that the DVD wasn't against Muslims as a whole. Indeed one of the best speakers was a Muslim who said he was personally deeply embarrased by what was going on. The important thing was that for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing. Now is the time for Muslims to step up and say no more.
September 21, 2008

4:29 p.m.

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grandpaw writes:

I certainly agree with gs that Muslims need to do more to resist the terrorists. So many of the Muslim population live in poverty and live day to day. It is difficult for those kind of people to be politically active, especially given the political repression that exists.

At one time, we thought Germans and Japanese were dangerous and wanting our deaths. At one time, well, in fact for a few hundred years, many thought blacks were hardly human. There were many years when Chinese were considered much like slaves. Bigotry is one of the worst evils.
September 21, 2008

6:07 p.m.

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haddock writes:

SheikYurBooty:

Sure, I just returned. If you want a modern example of Christian extremes, how about shooting doctors in the back for assisting with abortions. If you want an example of "dhimmitude" or whatever you call it, how about black slavery and massacred indians at the hands of the wonderful God inspired Christian whites that occupied the new world? Don't try and claim that your one-sided bigotry and zeal is logic. You are one of those people that cannot see beyond your pre-formed prejudices in which you attempt to condemn a whole faith based on a translated pocketbook you bought. I have read all the posts, and you could surely profit from those that are bright and informed like grandpaw, and gs.
September 21, 2008

6:17 p.m.

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SheikYurBooty writes:

wechasa - " Al Qran MUST BE LEARNED IN ARABIC, because that is the way Allah dictated it to Mohammed; and it is, as a result, totally un-translatable."

This is nonsense. It might help to read it in Arabic to apprciate the stylistic elements (much as poems cannot be 100% translated, because while the meaning can be communicated, the form part of the verse that makes it poetic will be lost). The MEANING of any text can be translated, that is not even debatable. This idea that the Koran (or Quran - transliterations from Arabic are many and subject to differences - see the numerous accepted spellings of the name of Allah's Porphet for example) is somehow in its own universe of secret meaning that can only be comprehended in Arabic is simply preposterous. Some illustration of that assertion would help, but I doubt any can be found.

"Is it thus, then, that you speak of “slaves” as “subscribing” to “slavery”, thereby identifying all Moslems as “bloodthirsty terrorists”, who are just waiting to “cut off your head”, or otherwise murder you in an orgy of celebratory blood lust?

Perhaps you will deign, then, to inform us how this approach differs from White Aryanism – and such other militant groups – who hold whole ethnic cultures to be “enemies” of their own notions of “racial supremacy”, and who advocate all sorts of repressive – often devastating – measures to deal with these “lesser breeds”, as you seem to feel necessary to deal with your bête noir of Islam.

Again, I am a bit confused. How does your hate-group, and your expressions of bigotry, and ethnic and religious denigration, differ from others?"

You lost me here.Did you see my 7:05 PM post where I specifically say that most Muslims are not plotting to kill anyone? I think you've confused my posts with someone else's.

As for bêtes noires, I list numerous forms of dehumanizing fascisms, including Islam. Islam is unique among them however in that it asserts that it is a religion and has gotten a lot of people to sign on.

What expressions of bigotry?? Please cite one. Note that the RMN editors haven't objected, and they have a quick trigger for deleting hate posts. I am batting 1.000.

popo - "Honestly, now.....are you on meth?" Honestly, no are you? And why do you ask? I notice that ad hominem attacks are the soupe du jour here - why not refute my specific accusations?

grandpaw: "Sheik: "ongoing Muslim atrocities are met with a yawn by Muslims, who simply parrot the excuse that "Isalm is under attack and we must fight back."

Notice the absolute: not "many Muslims", or "most Muslims", but simply "Muslims" with no exceptions or qualification."

Yup. Is that the best non-response you can give to my 7:29 AM challenge? Actually, I don't blame you. You can't refute me, so you have to attack me. Give an example of Muslims protesting the atrocities committed in the name of their creed. Just one.
September 21, 2008

6:26 p.m.

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SheikYurBooty writes:

castafiore:
" how about shooting doctors in the back for assisting with abortions. If you want an example of "dhimmitude" or whatever you call it, how about black slavery and massacred indians at the hands of the wonderful God inspired Christian whites that occupied the new world? "

shooting doctors anywhere is a sin, is condemned by all the major religious leaders, is not preached from any mainstream pulpit and is NOT SUPPORTED in religious texrs. In short, it is evil and a sin as defined by major Christian denominations.
Slavery and massacred Indians, while widely accepted at the time, have nothing to do with Christianity and are 100% refuted today. They had to do with conquest and not dhimmitude, which is a uniquely Islamic concept. (I take it the word is new to you, which in itself is telling.)

As for my prejudices, I confess (again)to harboring negative feelings towards dehumanizing ideologies, Islam great among them, for the reasons I HAVE NOTED throughout this thread and which REMAIN UNREFUTED.
September 21, 2008

6:30 p.m.

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SheikYurBooty writes:

castafiore: "attempt to condemn a whole faith based on a translated pocketbook you bought" - don't trivialize - I am widely read in this area. And if everything I read existed just in writing, I wouldn't care about Islam and neither would anyone else. Islam is associated with blood-soaked terror not because of anything I think or say, or because of anything any Muslim THINKS OR SAYS. It is associated with terrorism because of an ongoing daily onslaught of bloody attacks committed by Muslims IN THE NAME OF ISLAM. Is that so hard to understand?
September 21, 2008

7:15 p.m.

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spyder writes:

To popo:

Most definitely - I' m all for people who say they are peace loving and if you dare say it is not so, I will kill you. lol - Oh by the way...write as fiction book about about MY messiah, I will kill you. Draw a derogatory picture of my messiah, I will kill you. Real peace loving.
By the way, I had 2 sent to me...1 in the paper and 1 in a magazine - Both were destroyed - 1 from the paper carrier or someone at the Post, and i through the US Mail - a Federal Offense - Real Peace lovers hus?
September 21, 2008

7:20 p.m.

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spyder writes:

Oh, I will be writing to get an unbroken copy. Hopefully, a peace loving atheist, will be delivering my mail
September 21, 2008

7:21 p.m.

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haddock writes:

SheikYurBooty

Sorry, I contend that I know more about Islam and Muslims than you will ever know. I even read Arabic, among other languages, therefore I know how shallow your professions of knowledge really are. I remain committed to the concept that you are a narrow minded bigot that has a Sophomoric understanding of other world religions and cultures. Enough to be dangerous like your candidate! Can't keep this low level discussion up I'm afraid. so long.
September 21, 2008

7:34 p.m.

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SheikYurBooty writes:

castafiore - Salaamu Aleikum to you too.
September 21, 2008

7:36 p.m.

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SheikYurBooty writes:

castafoiore - you should have quit before you got so far behind. And I don't care how good your Arabic is, you will never understand Islam as well as bin Laden and the Ayatollahs do my friend.
September 21, 2008

8:24 p.m.

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grandpaw writes:

Sheik: "Give an example of Muslims protesting the atrocities committed in the name of their creed. Just one."

Come on, Sheik, grow up. I don't try to keep with with the different protests being held around the world.

You say there are a lot of Muslims who want to kill Christians. What are their names? You do back up your spouts with facts like that, don't you?

But if you want me to research the matter for you, you'll have to pay my usual rate of $200 an hour. What say you? I mean, being the upstanding person you are, I know you don't expect me to work for you for free.

But I sure don't blame you for trying to weasel out of your clearly bigoted statements.
September 21, 2008

8:39 p.m.

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grandpaw writes:

As all of us Arab speaking folks know, Salaamu Aleikum means peace be to you. Impressed?
September 22, 2008

12:54 a.m.

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freemarketworks writes:

SheikYurBooty writes:
“castafoiore - you should have quit before you got so far behind. And I don't care how good your Arabic is, you will never understand Islam as well as bin Laden and the Ayatollahs do my friend.”

Thank you for posting intelligent rebuttals to the likes of ‘castafiore’ and ‘grandpaw.’ They have brought this string down to a conflict between America and the Islamic World; however, the true conflict is between Western Civilization and radical Islam!

To ignore a growing number of religious compounds that are brainwashing blind followers into hating the “West,” is pure ignorance. These revisionists like to go back to the leftist iconoclastic arguments of Noam Chomsky, which automatically assume that the U.S. is guilty of any animosity/hatred against it and work backward from that erroneous presumption.

The cure for radical Islamic hatred is independence. As soon as the U.S., China, India, and the rest of the industrial world is energy independent, those would be killers of freedom loving people will lose.

Castafiore, I like the fact that you and other socialist bloggers try to assert the idea that “the United States of America doesn’t have the right to protect free trade,” It sometimes makes us real-world business people realize that integrity is no longer a value for many Americans and those that exist as a result of American sacrifices (take strong note that I don’t say “our”).

By the way, I’m fluent in Arabic, have read and studied the Koran, Sharia law and the Islamic World. To smugly tell me “not to take Noam Chomsky’s name in vain,” is the same as telling me that you are nothing but a leftist, “hate America first,” run-from-the-truth-weakling. Also, you never answered my questions!
September 22, 2008

6:23 a.m.

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grandpaw writes:

free: "By the way, I’m fluent in Arabic, have read and studied the Koran, Sharia law and the Islamic World. "

Sure you have. And I am the king of Siam.
September 22, 2008

6:46 a.m.

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mytwosense writes:

Well, who did produce this DVD? Anyone know?
September 22, 2008

7:30 a.m.

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SheikYurBooty writes:

GRandpaw - I notice you scoff at freemarketsworks' claim to speak Arabic, but say nothing of castafiore's like claim. Why is that?

"You say there are a lot of Muslims who want to kill Christians. What are their names? You do back up your spouts with facts like that, don't you?"

Osama bin Laden.
Ayman al Zawaheri
The Blind Sheik
Mohammed Reza Taheri-azar - the 22 year-old UNC graduate who tore through a lunchtime crowd at one of the university’s popular gathering spots with a Jeep Grand Cherokee, hitting nine people, of whom six were hospitalized with injuries, and cited several score Quran verses as justification.
etc, etc, etc

Freemarketworks - thanks for the kind words. As for these guys, I feel a little guilty for frustrating them so easily with obvious facts, but in the end they are just frustrating themselves, like someone who invests a lot in the idea that 1 +1 = 3.
September 22, 2008

8:32 a.m.

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cassidy22 writes:

Wow, I love how people use inflammatory terms to back up their own goals.

People seem to think that all Muslims are terrorists, which is ignorant. Why don't we turn the tables... We are in THEIR country, killing THEIR people - don't we look like terrorists to them?

Take a step back in time - we dropped bombs on a country during a war that wiped out 2 entire cities, women, children... granted, it put an end to the biggest war in the world, but who looks like a terrorist now?

There are 2 sides to every story, and it seems most of the ignorant folks here don't want to think about the other side. What about the families in Iraq that have done no harm to anyone, but are scared to go to work because of car bombs, street fighting, crossfire? It's so easy to sit here and point fingers, but our country is NOT in flames. We have running water, electricity, shelter over our heads. Remember that our soldiers are in THEIR country - fighting a war based on lies and BS from our government that wipes their a$$ with our constitution. So you can keep throwing around the word "terrorist" but we invaded their country. They have people dying every day, too. And no one quotes those statistics.
September 22, 2008

9:39 a.m.

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SheikYurBooty writes:

cassidy22 - a declared war, in response to the attack on Pearl Harbor, although it may lead to excesses and lots of Mondoay morning QB'ing, cannot be compared to say, the wanton slaughter of hundreds of school children in Beslan. It is Islam that, as a pillar of its ideology, divides the world into 2 parts: dar al-Harb and dar al_Islam - the house of war and the house of submission. Islam states that Islam is **by definition** at war for all time with the house of war (non-Islam) until the house of war is defeated. That is their war view and is at the root of 9/11 etc. Pointing out our travesty in Iraq is a red herring - whatever the reason that we are there, it is catagorically NOT to convert Iraq away from Islam.
September 22, 2008

10:16 a.m.

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grandpaw writes:

Sheik, you must be kidding. You really mean that there are four Muslims who want to kill Christians? We have got to mobilize the forces.

And I like the way you have of saying you don't know of any more: "etc, etc, etc".

As for the two terms you use, you need to brush up on your Arabic. Neither of them appear in the two holy books, the Qur'an and the Hadith. Take it from someone who reads Arabic almost as well as he reads Chinese and Eskimo.

You are still having trouble realizing that to know what a person thinks you have to go to the person and not to a book which is not even about the person. However, I'll keep working with you.

I've read the bible and therefore I know what any of the two billion or so Christians in the world think.
September 22, 2008

11:32 a.m.

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P_Denver writes:

grandpaw writes:

"Sheik, you must be kidding. You really mean that there are four Muslims who want to kill Christians? We have got to mobilize the forces."

From Wikipedia:

"More recently, the number of suicide attacks has grown significantly, from an average of less than five a year in the 1980s to 180/year in the first half of the 00s, and from 81 suicide attacks in 2001 to 460 in 2005."

Obviously, there are more than four who want to kill us. Admittedly, out of a billion Muslims, a few hundred (or even a few thousand) combatants are not a lot, but it's still too many.

And, if you do a search on Muslim Demonstrations you will get a lot of hits showing "victory celebrations" after 9-11 and similar bloody events ... but no sort of "protest" groups decrying the carnage. Are the people fearful of reprisals if they do so? Perhaps. The fanatics have guns; the common folk don't.That would tend to keep them out of the news.

No: I do not subscribe to a wholesale war on any religion.

Yes: I believe we have the right and the duty to defend ourselves from any group that attacks us.
September 22, 2008

11:46 a.m.

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jay writes:

let's go over it again people.

we're not at war with islam any more than the 'terrorists" are at war with christianity.

our conflicts with the middle east stem from our oil induced footprint there as well as our support for some of israel's less than honorable actions.

period.

that is not to say that the folks who would do our country harm don't use religion as a recruiting tool...but then again...so do republicans.

perspective is a terrible thing to waste.
September 22, 2008

12:20 p.m.

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P_Denver writes:

Ah, shucks, Wechasa. Most of the stuff in the news is " biased, outrageous, obnoxious, disgusting, (and) prejudicial."

That's what sells papers. : )
September 22, 2008

12:36 p.m.

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gs writes:

I ascribe to the notion that all wars are economic. In other words if there isn't any money in it then it won't last long. A fight over religion, then, just has to be a smoke screen. I really think Osama thinks he should be king of the Saudi Arabia. And it sounded like he had a somewhat ligitimate claim (assuming there is anything like divine right). And our support of the House of Saud is what got him angry with us. The religion stuff is just what is used to get the masses riled up. The shadows on the cave wall so to speak. (please excuse the misspellings).
September 22, 2008

1:21 p.m.

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SheikYurBooty writes:

Wechasa - just as there were some Germans who decried Nazism, they soon learned to bite their tongues. Muslims who make too much noise protesting what the hard liners in the Mosques are militating about risk winding up exiled or dead. The number of outspoken Muslims (or ex-Muslims) who have recieved credible death threats is huge. We all know about Salman Rushdie, but far fewer know about the Ayan Hirsi Ali. There are many in her position. And since she collaborated with the butchered Theo van Gogh, threats against her life are 100% credible.

"The DVD was biased, outrageous, obnoxious, disgusting, prejudicial, and something that should not have been part of the newspaper, even as advertisement."

It was talking about Islam, so obviously it was going to offend delicate sensiblities.

gramps: "As for the two terms you use, you need to brush up on your Arabic. Neither of them appear in the two holy books, the Qur'an and the Hadith."

1. I never said I spoke/read Arabic. I said I "studied" it. You are confusing me (once again) with others.
2. When you did your little emergency Wikipedia search on the terms I referenced, why did you skip this:
"In the orthodox tradition of Islam, the world is divided into two components: dar al-Islam, the house of Islam and dar al-Harb, the house of war." ????? Inconvenient??????

As for only 4 Muslims trying to kill non-Muslims: I don't have time to list them all. Here is a relevant link for you TO IGNORE:
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

Osama BL attacked us in the 90's and since because we were in the SA peninsula. "We" being non-Muslim, Christian, Jewish, and female "crusader" military (in the wake of Gulf War 1). Non-Muslim presence in the peninsula goes directly against Muhammed's dying wish, and therefore OBL took it upon himself, via his creed, to attack on that basis alone.
September 29, 2008

10:44 a.m.

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descriptivemind writes:

Their is good and bad in every race,religion and every nation! Their are good muslums too, not all are terrorists! And as for "we do it for the oil" thats why they bomb us, thats BS i served in military during bombing of Marine barracks in Beirut Lebanon 1983 and didnt see any oil there! (lebanese didnt do it)
In America we have "freedom of speach" and we also have "turn a blind eye"! If it is accomadating and in favor of their "political" wants and needs of course "rocky mountain news" is going to publish what they want! I support Senator Obama, and every time i see how these underground sleezy deceitful bending of the truth "not for profit" orginizations post "dirty politics" ads to get votes, i want to vote for Senator Obama even more! Americans will see through their lies,deceit and because of this will vote OBAMA FOR PRESIDENT! HE IS AMERICAN! HE IS HONEST! HE DOESNT TAKE CORPORATE MONEY! HE DOESNT DECEIVE AMERICANS! GOD BLESS AMERICA!!!
October 23, 2008

2:54 a.m.

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Taurus writes:

Hi Grandpaw, (re your Sept 22 6:23) Freemarketworks is a fake Arab speaking Chinese Filipino who can speak only Tagalog and English. Take it from me. I know the guy.

Home › Opinion › Letters to the Editor

Post DVD in poor taste

Marianne Weigand, Arvada

Published September 20, 2008 at 12:05 a.m.

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