Metro prof under fire for anti-Palin assignment
Shaun Boyd, CBS4
Published September 18, 2008 at 11:20 a.m.
Updated September 18, 2008 at 11:20 a.m.
Metro State College is investigating a professor who asked students to write an essay critical of Republican vice presidential candidate Gov. Sarah Palin. One student said the instructor singled out Republican students in the class and allowed others to ridicule them.
"I was shocked, I was holy cow, this is just an open door for him to discuss politics with us," said Jana Barber, a student in the class.
Barber shared the first class assignment with CBS4. Instructor Andrew Hallam asked students to write an essay to contradict what he called the 'fairy tale image of Palin' presented at the Republican National Convention.
"What the faculty's responsibility is to provide opportunity for critical thinking and civic engagement so bringing something of relevancy into the classroom was the faculty's goal," said Cathy Lucas, spokeswoman for Metro State. "Should he have broadened it and included all the political figures, yes."
Metro State officials are investigating claims of bias, harassment and bullying.
Hallam declined an interview with CBS4. He has revised the assignment.
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September 18, 2008
11:28 a.m.
Suggest removal
JSeifert writes:
And this surprise's WHO? Another Anti-American teaching in our Taxpayer collage on our dime. Sound familar to anyone?
September 18, 2008
11:31 a.m.
Suggest removal
sheepherder writes:
Liberal college professors! Who woulda thunk it!
September 18, 2008
11:35 a.m.
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WestminsterJ writes:
Seifert- AntiRepublican= patriotic American
September 18, 2008
11:36 a.m.
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Scott writes:
So why is Hallam teaching, because no one out in industry would hire this loser. It was either get a job teaching or go on welfare.
Scott
September 18, 2008
11:37 a.m.
Suggest removal
hottopic2999 writes:
They should sue the hell out of this clown. I hope he loses his job and has to live on the street.
September 18, 2008
11:41 a.m.
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Scott writes:
I forgot to add: An instructor with a brain (yes, they do exist) would have told the class that their assignment is to pick their least favorite VP candidate and write a scathing review. Nice and balanced with no inference of the "instructors" Komrade slant.
Gee! I only have a Bachelors degree and I can figure that one out. Just thing how smart I would be if I had a Piled-higher & Deeper degree :-)
Scott
September 18, 2008
11:45 a.m.
Suggest removal
JYP3500 writes:
Fire him & start over. My advice to Andrew Hallam; go find a real job, work for a living, pay taxes and most of all, be honest.
September 18, 2008
11:45 a.m.
Suggest removal
denverinfidel writes:
This is news? You mean to tell me a liberal, tolerant, open-minded, diversity loving college professor isn't very tolerant, or open-minded, and doesn't like diverse opinions in their class?
Shocker.
September 18, 2008
11:45 a.m.
Suggest removal
WHYYYY writes:
So someone is going along and suggesting removal of anyone who olds an opinion they do not like.
Hey, I've got news for you. This is still the USA where we have the right to opinions! It makes me want to vote Republican.
September 18, 2008
11:47 a.m.
Suggest removal
Beau writes:
What a brave girl, to try and stand up against this kind of bullying.
Everyone who has a college degree and remained true to their faith and their conservatism has suffered this kind of harassment and bullying. Do professors like this take out their personal bias on their students? Does the Pope wear a tall hat?
Keep up the good fight, Jana.
September 18, 2008
11:51 a.m.
Suggest removal
SteveM writes:
JSeifert, I see, if you are against Palin, not suggesting that this professor is against Palin, but if you are, that makes you Anti-American! What country are you from? Russia, China, or Cuba? Last time I checked, it was the American way for people to be able to be opposed to certain political candidates and to be planning to vote for others. No? Sorry, I didn't get the memo that we tore up and threw away our Democracy in the past 8 years! You're opinion and that of others in this thread are outlandish, partisan, and just plain Un-American. Seriously, folks, we have a Constitution, or we did last time I checked. Political protest is not only LEGAL it's encouraged in a lively, thriving democracy. Oh, but I forgot, you people want a theocracy run by an religious dictator don't you? Hmm, why don't you move to Saudi Arabia or Iran? Oh, you want freedom of religion in your dictatorship? How about China then? As long as you're not practicing Fulan Gong, you're free to practice what ever religion you want there!
You people make me absolutely sick to my stomach. Was this a one-sided an mis-guided assignment? As long as the target was Sarah Palin. Had he made the assignment about Barack Obama, you'd have been dancing in the streets. How do I know, because your comments don't say, "There's no room for one-sided political attacks in a college classroom", they say, "Liberal college professors!", "They should sue...this clown", and "anti-american".
Here's a cartoon for you! Live it up!
http://www.salon.com/comics/knig/2008...
September 18, 2008
11:52 a.m.
Suggest removal
TheDenverB writes:
how is he anti American?
September 18, 2008
11:54 a.m.
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MileHighPatriot writes:
I deal with this on a daily basis at CU Denver. Most of the teachers are liberal, but a few of them go above and beyond the call of duty... in such a manner that they try to convince the class to vote a certain way.
I had one 'professor' (if you want to call him that) admit that he was a socialist, worked with the black panthers, and that we should all vote for Obama.
Isn't that illegal?
September 18, 2008
11:56 a.m.
Suggest removal
Willy writes:
It is not an English professor's job to promote character assasination against anyone. Hope he ends up in the bread line with Ward, the fake native american, Churchhill
September 18, 2008
11:56 a.m.
Suggest removal
ptorres writes:
I take it most writers responding to this story are Republicans. I sense anger in the words. I graduated from Metero State College in 1976 and believe me democrats, and independents took a tongue slashing in class room from Republicans. Tell these cry baby’s students to learn from this because in the real world it’s a part of every day life. If you need listing reference listen to KHOW 630AM at about 4:00pm Dan & Craig will give you an ear full. By the way Dan is a right wing Republican that does not hold back his words when debating Craig.
September 18, 2008
11:58 a.m.
Suggest removal
Sensible writes:
no surprises.
And so far only 1 idjut lib (SteveM [m for moron?]) to stand up for the lib moron.
I love it!
We can see right through you libs.
September 18, 2008
11:59 a.m.
Suggest removal
davies writes:
Students should be careful about ridiculing their fellow students who are conservative and/or Republican. The object of their ridicule may end up being their boss someday.
September 18, 2008
12:03 p.m.
Suggest removal
Scott writes:
ptorres,
I'm a registered democrat. Now what say you? Also, my youngest daughter just graduated from Metro this Spring, she majored in accounting. Her view is that the vast majority of the Draft-Dodger courses, history, sociology, psych, multi-cultural, etc., were taught by hardcore left wingers that let the students know that if they were anything right of Timothy Leary, then they were trash.
Any instructor that pushes their political agenda (left or right) should be canned. We pay them to teach us, NOT to indoctrinate us.
BTW, what was your major?
Scott
September 18, 2008
12:03 p.m.
Suggest removal
dilligaf writes:
SteveM
The memo came when Bush said "Your either with us or against us" and if you work for the CIA we will leak your name and ruin your career.
September 18, 2008
12:07 p.m.
Suggest removal
SteveM writes:
This according to Time Magazine, oh my the liberal press rears it's ugly head again..."John McCain has raised serious questions about whether he has the character to lead the nation. He has defaced his beloved military code of honor. He has run a dirty campaign."
read it and weep if you are planning to vote for McCain http://www.time.com/time/politics/art...
September 18, 2008
12:12 p.m.
Suggest removal
JSeifert writes:
No actually I would say the same thing if any teacher had made a assignment against just Obama not McCain or Biden not Palin. The point is this teacher was making them write a paper about one single person no points of view, no pro and con just one person and only if it was bad. I say thats more to the tune of China, Cuba and all the other Socialist, communist country listed. We are seeing this more and more in our universities Pro this but not that. Bulling from teachers who have a agenda, That is what is wrong. These are not teachers the are Brainwashers, reeducation camp Nasis that infect this country and should be removed.
September 18, 2008
12:13 p.m.
Suggest removal
Mayor_Quimby writes:
ahallam2@mscd.edu
Email this d-bag at the above address and tell him what you think of his liberal crap.
September 18, 2008
12:13 p.m.
Suggest removal
T1anda writes:
McCain/Palin 08
September 18, 2008
12:14 p.m.
Suggest removal
dilligaf writes:
This a fine line to cross. Our teachers should not teach their political believes in their classes. But they should be able to teach our students when we are getting the royal shaft that we have been getting the last 8 years and what we will continue to get if we give them another 4.
September 18, 2008
12:15 p.m.
Suggest removal
timeandagain writes:
This guy is a professor at Metro State for crissakes... I am surprised that he even has the intelligence to formulate an opinion...
who cares about some junior college professor and his political beliefs?
September 18, 2008
12:15 p.m.
Suggest removal
Scott writes:
steel,
Big_D can't stand home schooling because its fellow komrade libs do not have the chance to indoctrinate these kids in their formative years about the Radiant Future that Saint Marx promises. :^)
Scott
September 18, 2008
12:17 p.m.
Suggest removal
davies writes:
Big_D: Not a real stand-up kind of guy, are you?
September 18, 2008
12:18 p.m.
Suggest removal
danirobi writes:
Memories of 2004 are coming back to my mind. I remember the Academic Bill of Rights fight in the State Capital. Hmmm, somethings just never change.
September 18, 2008
12:19 p.m.
Suggest removal
marine76 writes:
It would be one thing if the teacher asked the students to write an essay and then graded it based on the creativity or quality of the writing. Even to have them write something encourage debate in the class (names withheld) would have been ok too. But to just have them write it so he can identify who's on his side is very wrong. This guy shouldn't be teaching (along with many others). What if doctors said they going to help you because you don't agree with me. It would be interesting to see what grades he gave the students. Was he fair? Did someone say his name was Ward Churchill?
September 18, 2008
12:19 p.m.
Suggest removal
chris33 writes:
The Republicans have almost destroyed America. They should be ridiculed.
September 18, 2008
12:20 p.m.
Suggest removal
rage_against_the_stupid writes:
Big_D writes:
I just bet this kid was homeschooled.
That would explain her use of critical thinking, ability to clearly express ideas and have an indepedent, open minded world view. All traits she would not have been exposed too in leftist public schools.
September 18, 2008
12:22 p.m.
Suggest removal
Mayor_Quimby writes:
Higher education; the only area of our educational system not destroyed by dems and their special interest unions. That will soon end judging by the crap that they hire at our local institutions. Watch! Soon people will be going overseas for college when you have idiots like these teaching our kids.
September 18, 2008
12:25 p.m.
Suggest removal
vendari01 writes:
The one-sided criticism thing is annoying, and had it gone the other way, toward Sen. Obama, would have probably gotten this professor canned. Still, it is protected speech, and I can live with that.But, if the student spoke truthfully about students being ridiculed for their political beliefs, well, that I will not live with. That is old-fashioned bullying, and it is past time for that to stop. Too many professors teach that arrogant behavior is okay, if you have power over those you mistreat.
September 18, 2008
12:26 p.m.
Suggest removal
leatherneck writes:
SteveM AND THE REST OF YOU LIBERAL FOOLS:
This is a story because a extreme Liberal professor made an English assignment to write a paper about trashing Sara Palin. He didn't ask the class to write a paper on who they think is the worst candidate or possible VP was. OH but wait he....... he then back pedaled and revised the assignment to be just that after he got heat for his agenda. I am proud of these students, and glad they had the guts to stand up for what is right or wrong.
September 18, 2008
12:31 p.m.
Suggest removal
senator writes:
yes this whole liberal professor thing it quite unbelievable. Conservatives always say liberal professors, judges, media etc. like they think it is strange that these jobs are stacked with liberals unfairly. Look at the definitions of liberal: open-minded and favoring reform or progress towards democracy and personal freedom and conservative: resists or opposes change to established traditions or institutions. If by liberal conservatives are referring to Democrats what is it that they don't get. These previously stated occupations require intelligent educated people and you will always find in these type of jobs a much higher concentration of liberal or self labeled Democrats than you will conservatives strictly because of the job qualifications. You don't here liberals complaining about the conservative coal mining industry. If the professor wanted to avoid problems he should have asked people to write a short biography of Palin and he would have gotten exactly what he wanted in the first place.
September 18, 2008
12:32 p.m.
Suggest removal
mevantin writes:
I can't believe the student who handed it to the press gave her full name for the story. I wonder what kind of mood the instructor is going to be in when he is grading future assignments for her...
September 18, 2008
12:35 p.m.
Suggest removal
marine76 writes:
I like the way that the left wants us to baby the rest of the world, give them all of our love and money. Let them all choose their own way. We have no right to tell them how to think, we should just buy their friendship. But to their fellow American's, if you aren't like me ............... I'm all for letting the rest of the world find their own way too, but without all my love and money. If they want to be our friend, we can help each other out. If they don't want to be our friend, that's fine too. But leave us and our friends alone and we will do the same for you. Lefties, you are also entitled to belive whatever you want. Just remember that it's ok for others to not agree with you.
September 18, 2008
12:37 p.m.
Suggest removal
Logical writes:
Good grief! So many people wanting to fire or sue the instructor. Get a life, grow thicker skin!
What he assigned was wrong. This is a school. Use this as an educational experience. Reprimand the instructor, and make sure the students know the assignment was over the line. Let them know they should expect to see this type of behavior throughout their adult life, and to use their own brain to filter. Then, they must decide how they will react to it - quit the job, discuss the impropriety, or just rant and whine.
We need to get over the "fire and sue" mentality that divides so many people. Has none of the posters above every made a mistake? C'mon people, lighten up. My 3 kids have been in colleges, and each one was guided to filter what they heard from their instructors. Two of my kids are leaning right, one is leaning left. So be it. Each one uses their brain (okay, two out of three) to analyze situations, then make up their own mind. They know they must filter whatever they hear, including what comes from me.
Learn from this experience, and move on.
September 18, 2008
12:43 p.m.
Suggest removal
marine76 writes:
Logical - it sounds like you did a good job raising your children and they can think for themselves. The problem I see is that the family unit for most of America today isn't as sound as yours. Too may children are being raised by the system due to lack of parental involvement. That's why people in a position of trust should do their job and keep their opinions to themselves. He's there to teach English, not politics.
September 18, 2008
12:44 p.m.
Suggest removal
Miss_Kitty_Kat_Girl writes:
Part of one's education is writing a good convincing paper. I like the idea of a challenge. Quit being such querulous criers Palin supporters. Maybe this instructor wanted to be convinced?
September 18, 2008
12:46 p.m.
Suggest removal
Scott writes:
I just received an email from my bean-counting daughter and she did have Komrade Hallam one day as a substitute instructor for an American Government class. She proudly told me, "... when he opened the floor up for debate I actually managed to piss him off. It was awesome because most students he'd just shoot down and ridicule and they would give up but not me."
Proud daddy,
Scott
September 18, 2008
12:47 p.m.
Suggest removal
Newenergycommie writes:
Andrew Hallam will attach this newspaper article to his resume/employment application for CU, Berkley or Harvard. This is a badge of honor. There is nothing like having good references to help you move up and out. When does the Michael Moore documentary "Lone Metroman and Tonto (Churchill) vs. the evil republicans” come out?
September 18, 2008
12:50 p.m.
Suggest removal
senator writes:
yes this whole liberal professor thing it quite unbelievable. Conservatives always say liberal professors, judges, media etc. like they think it is strange that these jobs are stacked with liberals unfairly. Look at the definitions of liberal: open-minded and favoring reform or progress towards democracy and personal freedom and conservative: resists or opposes change to established traditions or institutions. If by liberal conservatives are referring to Democrats what is it that they don't get. These previously stated occupations require intelligent educated people and you will always find in these type of jobs a much higher concentration of liberal or self labeled Democrats than you will conservatives strictly because of the job qualifications. You don't here liberals complaining about the conservative coal mining industry. If the professor wanted to avoid problems he should have asked people to write a short biography of Palin and he would have gotten exactly what he wanted in the first place.
September 18, 2008
12:55 p.m.
Suggest removal
davies writes:
leatherneck: True dat! And as other commenters are pointing out, this matter is in some respects more egregious than Ward Churchill's spouting off about certain victims deserving to die in the name of liberal multiculturalism, because this little professor from Metro State appears to be trying to use his position and his classes to influence the outcome of an election.
September 18, 2008
12:55 p.m.
Suggest removal
danirobi writes:
Miss_Kity- If a Conservative Prof had issued an assignment to the student to do the same thing about Obama, that Prof would be deemed as a racist hatemonger by the media and the school.
September 18, 2008
12:56 p.m.
Suggest removal
Fred1 writes:
Obama's money will not buy him into the White House. We are not stupid Americans. He has no experience, plain and very simple.
September 18, 2008
12:56 p.m.
Suggest removal
gs writes:
I went to Metro in 79 and 80 and I had what I think was one of the best accounting profs I've ever had, Russ Bean I think was his name. There were others that were very good to. We never discussed politics and were only humilated by the score on our tests.
September 18, 2008
1:05 p.m.
Suggest removal
Scott writes:
gs,
Me thinks you misinterpreted my posting. My bean-counting daughter had Komrade Hallam for an American Government (draft-dodger) class, NOT a bean-counting class.
BTW, her bean-counting advisor, Ann Murphy, is an absolutely outstanding gal. Likewise, she considered the rest of her bean-counting instructors as first rate.
Scott
September 18, 2008
1:06 p.m.
Suggest removal
marine76 writes:
America - land of the free (thinking liberal nutt balls) and the home of the brave.
September 18, 2008
1:07 p.m.
Suggest removal
leatherneck writes:
davies, danirobi : Thanks for your very intelligent comments. I appreciate people like you both that use logical thinking about what is right and wrong. I have 2 children that will soon be in college and I hope they are not exposed to this politictal abuse.
September 18, 2008
1:12 p.m.
Suggest removal
danirobi writes:
Leatherneck- I was one of the students in 2004 that testified on academic bias violations at Metro. Good luck to your kids, if they strong heads on their shoulders, I think they'll do fine!
September 18, 2008
1:14 p.m.
Suggest removal
senator writes:
how true big D. Professors will always be liberal as they need to be intelligent and educated. The world needs ditch diggers too and I promise I won't complain that they are all conservatives.
September 18, 2008
1:15 p.m.
Suggest removal
anderson writes:
God forbid anyone in college should be challenged to think, or to provide a rational argument for anything. Also, I hear (but shhhh, keep it a secret) that they are okay with people holding different points of view.
September 18, 2008
1:17 p.m.
Suggest removal
Cowboy63 writes:
Heroes of the Angry Left education system:
Ward Churchill
Andrew Hallum
Shine a light on the cockroaches and: "Hallam declined an interview with CBS4. He has revised the assignment."
Typical Left... run, hide and backtrack. Looks like he's only comfortable lording it over 19-year olds.
I don't know what's more pathetic. A teacher encouraging students to berate each other (as opposed to critical dialogue) or students attacking fellow students just to score some brownie points with a loser professor.
Welcome to Left controlled "higher education".
September 18, 2008
1:21 p.m.
Suggest removal
fastnloose writes:
I'm sure he will follow this assignment up with one that allows the students to rip away on the Messiah Obama. RIGHT!
September 18, 2008
1:21 p.m.
Suggest removal
Scott writes:
MarineGrunt sez, "A degree in Liberal Arts is nothing to really stick your chest out about..."
That's why I refer to lib arts degrees as Draft-Dodger degrees. The cowards back during the Vietnam draft would hide out in colleges "earning" a lib arts degree. You have work at it to fail a lib arts course.
Scott
September 18, 2008
1:22 p.m.
Suggest removal
DenverDan writes:
I love it when you cons get all mad. Maybe God told him to do so.
Why is it the more you know, the more LIBERAL you get? I don’t understand why people who say that they are smart, would vote for four more years of the same policies. Just because party comes first Country second. That is why.
September 18, 2008
1:25 p.m.
Suggest removal
fastnloose writes:
The sad part is, this idiot had to be confronted before he even realized this was wrong.
September 18, 2008
1:25 p.m.
Suggest removal
leatherneck writes:
little_d : once again, your ignorance and extreme liberal statements make you look like a fool.........I bet that you didn't even go to college
September 18, 2008
1:28 p.m.
Suggest removal
Ducks2k writes:
Logical Writer'
This was not a mistake it was deliberate, calculating and ment to be degrading and is hurtful to student that do not agree with his way of thinkjing. The Professor can believe what he wishes but just because someone belives something don't make it right or the truth. Just becaue I believe a Piss Ant can eat a bale of hay does that make it right?
This supposed Professor is no better than the rest of us, when we do something at work is wrong and we know that it is wrong we have to face the music and he must also.
Put this guy out and have him get a job where he is not in charge and see how he like having someone make a Goat of Him. I mean no disrespect to Goats.
September 18, 2008
1:30 p.m.
Suggest removal
marine76 writes:
Just curious, why do people teach? It can't be for the pay.
September 18, 2008
1:33 p.m.
Suggest removal
Scott writes:
Malachi_Constant writes: "... The reason there is no left/right balance in higher ed is because most "conservatives" don't like to teach. Period. ..."
I hate to burst your bubble, but I've been teaching math and electronics, part time at night, at various colleges and high schools around the metro area since 1994. Like BeefEaterGrins, during the day I have a full time engineering job to help cover your welfare checks.
Scott
September 18, 2008
1:34 p.m.
Suggest removal
RufusTFirefly writes:
Maybe the assignment should have asked the question
"Where is Joe Biden?"
September 18, 2008
1:34 p.m.
Suggest removal
danirobi writes:
Malachi- Those who can do, those who can't teach...
September 18, 2008
1:36 p.m.
Suggest removal
marine76 writes:
Where's Joe........that sounds like a good title for their next children's book.
September 18, 2008
1:37 p.m.
Suggest removal
Scott writes:
marine76,
You're right about the pay. I do it for the love of teaching. The kick that I get out of it is seeing the deer-in-the-headlights look transform into the NOW-I-understand look. That in and of itself is quite fulfilling for me.
Scott
p.s. to little_d: I have ONLY went by Scott on this site.
September 18, 2008
1:38 p.m.
Suggest removal
davies writes:
Big_D writes: ..."With the general intelligence of the right wingers I am personally amazed you can operate a computer."
With your display of integrity at 11:58 (just play along, pretend to be someone else, then rip 'em behind their backs), I am amazed that you would believe anyone would care... what you claim to think!
September 18, 2008
1:38 p.m.
Suggest removal
anderson writes:
I think the college should start a new course, call it, say Martyrdom 99 (a remedial course for those students who don't yet have the requisite skills (i.e., maturity) do deal with competing ideas in college).
They will start by holding hands and testifying to how their pet views on anything have never been honored. Soon the class will be sniffling and bawling (I've seen this happen in a class). When everyone calms down, they will each list 30 ways to name their enemy. By the end of the semester, they will have learned to write a grammatically-free letter to the President of the university, and to the press, articulating their grievances.
September 18, 2008
1:39 p.m.
Suggest removal
MattGuyver_007 writes:
Why is it never the other way? Why are professors always liberal jackasses? Campus is a utopia and generally these types never see the way the real world goes round'.
September 18, 2008
1:40 p.m.
Suggest removal
FCZ writes:
tenure should be eliminated.
September 18, 2008
1:40 p.m.
Suggest removal
DenverDan writes:
Beef licker
I love it when you cons get all mad. Maybe God told him to do so.
Why is it the more you know, the more LIBERAL you get? I don’t understand why people who say that they are smart, would vote for four more years of the same policies. Just because party comes first Country second. That is why.
September 18, 2008
1:43 p.m.
Suggest removal
Chacmool writes:
The point is how absolutely close-minded hard-core liberals have become. There is no difference between the liberal "I see what I believe" parrot crowd and the religious right. Right wing religious nuts are rare and & not tolerated in public higher education. Left wing nuts should also be rare and not the rule in higher ed.
September 18, 2008
1:45 p.m.
Suggest removal
marine76 writes:
Scott,
I'm glad you do it for the right reasons. Many of the teachers I've seen seem to do it to impress on the world how smart and important they are. I enjoy teaching too (youth sports). But that's a free position, I still have to work to pay my taxes. And I've never started or benched a kid because they don't agree with my political views. Actually, we don't discuss our political views. It has nothing to do with why we are there.
September 18, 2008
1:46 p.m.
Suggest removal
RufusTFirefly writes:
childrens book
right between "curious george" and "one fish, two fish....."
----laughing-----
September 18, 2008
1:47 p.m.
Suggest removal
jay writes:
while it is easy and sometimes amusing to "ridicule" those who put blind political loyalty in front of intelligent examination of policy stances and track records...i think this prof would have been well served to require critical papers of both palin and biden.
would certainly have kept the tinfoil hat brigade from making an appearance today.
September 18, 2008
1:47 p.m.
Suggest removal
marine76 writes:
Anderson - they don't need 30 ways to name their enemy. All they need is "GEORGE BUSH". Everything is George's fault.
September 18, 2008
1:51 p.m.
Suggest removal
senator writes:
Chacmool - My previous post will clear things up for you and hopefully you will be less confused about why the left wing will always dominate higher ed.
yes this whole liberal professor thing it quite unbelievable. Conservatives always say liberal professors, judges, media etc. like they think it is strange that these jobs are stacked with liberals unfairly. Look at the definitions of liberal: open-minded and favoring reform or progress towards democracy and personal freedom and conservative: resists or opposes change to established traditions or institutions. If by liberal conservatives are referring to Democrats what is it that they don't get. These previously stated occupations require intelligent educated people and you will always find in these type of jobs a much higher concentration of liberal or self labeled Democrats than you will conservatives strictly because of the job qualifications. You don't here liberals complaining about the conservative coal mining industry. If the professor wanted to avoid problems he should have asked people to write a short biography of Palin and he would have gotten exactly what he wanted in the first place.
September 18, 2008
1:52 p.m.
Suggest removal
marine76 writes:
Another good book - It takes a liberal.
September 18, 2008
1:53 p.m.
Suggest removal
davies writes:
DenverDan writes: "Beef licker" (Ooh, clever there DD!) "I love it when you cons get all mad. Maybe God told him to do so.
Why is it the more you know, the more LIBERAL you get?"
I believe Winston Churchill said something like: "A young man who is not a liberal has no heart. An old man who is not a conservative has no brain."
Winston Churchill. You know, stood up with his small nation alone against the Nazis in 1940? Winston Churchill???
Oh, never mind.
September 18, 2008
1:55 p.m.
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chickenlittle1234 writes:
Love your argument, senator, and I totally agree. But this assignment - assuming, of course that the LIBERAL (snicker, snicker) media is reporting it fairly - was dumb. But all you neocons, give the guy a break. He's teaching at Metro, not Harvard.
September 18, 2008
1:56 p.m.
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LadyBird112 writes:
Dayum. I sure don't like Palin but I wouldn't lead a "class discussion" about it in this way. That's just asking for it.
September 18, 2008
1:56 p.m.
Suggest removal
Darwin writes:
Andrew Hallam, now we know where you work, your political views, and... . It will be interesting to see how you like to be confronted by a group of unaffiliated voters who are tired of your ilk who try to foist their views on others based on your position. We know there are profs on the other side of the spectrum, but they are seldom so stupid as to be so open about their narrow, biased, views but we will watch for them too.
September 18, 2008
1:57 p.m.
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smullane writes:
i had prof. hallam when i attended MSCD in 2001. i came from a small country town in GA and was completely shocked by how he conducted his class. being a republican and in the Army, it was hard not to lash out at his ignorant, anti-military, and anti-America views. a lot of people are on here saying the student is a "wuss" and a "cry baby" but if you were taking his class, you would understand why she has brought this up. it's not your typical college setting for intelligent discussions. hallam and other students continually trash the conservatives with little regard to their feelings and beliefs. and as far as grading would go, i say he is biased towards his grading. i finished with a C and anytime i wrote about my views or the military, those papers were always graded lower. the next semester i had my last english class at MSCD and got an A. this was a much harder and comprehensive class. in summary, i am not surprised to have saw this story on foxnews about hallam. as soon as i read the headline, MSCD came to my mind and sure enough it was about MSCD prof. hallam.
i am back in GA, finishing my senior year at North Georgia College. i am a criminal justice major.
ALSO: i THOUGHT denver was a pretty conservative city but i was wrong. MSCD is a very liberal school and I am sure when people attended this college years ago, it wasn't that way. times have changed for denver.
September 18, 2008
1:58 p.m.
Suggest removal
Cowboy63 writes:
DenverDan writes: "Why is it the more you know, the more LIBERAL you get?" ("Know" what?)
Why is it the older you get, the more CONSERVATIVE you get? Maturity.
Funny thing is, this hack probably just hand delivered another 10,000 votes for McCain/Palin. We'll see how this sort of stupidity "plays in Peoria" come election day.
The more these infantile attacks on Sarah Palin, the more the American People are going to support McCain/Palin. She just represents a wider cross-section of America than some pencil-neck, Lib college professor.
September 18, 2008
2:01 p.m.
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LoneTreeLady75 writes:
LOL, I LOVE IT! This forum is proof positive that the two party system is RUINING America. "I hate Democrats because they're dumb stupid heads, I hate Republicans because they're mean fat heads and they have cooties." You all sound like a bunch of children! Great lunchtime entertainment though, please keep it going. We Independents and the undecided get a pretty good giggle out of it all.
September 18, 2008
2:02 p.m.
Suggest removal
jay writes:
davies, denverdan isn't just whistling dixie....studies have shown that the more educated one is, the more likely they are to not consider themselves as "religious" and "republican".
remember...it's just data.
you may draw your own conclusions.
September 18, 2008
2:06 p.m.
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DenverDan writes:
Beef Kisser
The more you know, the more LIBERAL you become. You just don’t know crap from davies face. There is no money in teaching.
That is why there are no Cons that teach.
September 18, 2008
2:07 p.m.
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davies writes:
chickenlittle:
Harvard is a private university, whereas I believe Metro State is a public institution partially financed by public tax dollars. Therefore the offense is greater, not less.
Ahh, but we "neocons" and our pesky logic, right?
By the way, I find it a little ironic that a defender of liberal thought would choose the name 'chickenlittle'. Was the sky falling when you chose that moniker?
September 18, 2008
2:07 p.m.
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Scott writes:
A masters in EE and ME? WOW! And me with my piddly little BS degree :-)
I always knew that jarheads were into sadomasochism! ;-)
Scott
September 18, 2008
2:08 p.m.
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anderson writes:
Leatherneck76, George Bush will do. If a student feels martyred and put upon because someone challenges her pet beliefs and she doesn't want to think outside of a binary world, there HAS to be an enemy.
September 18, 2008
2:11 p.m.
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anderson writes:
Davies, I don't see logic so much as anti-intellectualism.
September 18, 2008
2:11 p.m.
Suggest removal
Scott writes:
DenverDan writes: "... There is no money in teaching. That is why there are no Cons that teach."
Using your razor sharp "logic", how do you explain my 1:37 PM posting? I am breathlessly awaiting your "logical" response.
Scott
September 18, 2008
2:16 p.m.
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No_ax_to_grind writes:
This cr^p goes on every day up here for pages and pages and pages... Republicans, Democrats, Independents. Liberals, Conservatives, Moderates. "I'm right, you're wrong! Hurray for us!!" THIS... is why this country, not just Washington, is so jacked up. <sigh>
September 18, 2008
2:18 p.m.
Suggest removal
Ducks2k writes:
The reason for colleges are stacked with liberals is not because of of intelligence and free thinking. It is because liberal have become so intrenched by tenure and college presidents that are blind to the truth, just look at this Professer and his one sided assignment, now is this assignment open minded and free thinking, not by a long shot. This assignment was ment to be degrading to thoes who see things differently. What an 'IDIOT'.
September 18, 2008
2:19 p.m.
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marine76 writes:
Anderson, the problem is that in today's America it's never my fault or our fault. It's always someone elses fault. Even if Obama were to get elected, any failure or shortcoming would still be blamed on the previous administration. When I hear someone blaming bush all I hear is; we have a problem and I have no idea what to do about it. And of course the hatred that goes along with it. I think a lot of people in the country enjoy hating others. Blame them for why I'm not happy.
September 18, 2008
2:24 p.m.
Suggest removal
RufusTFirefly writes:
Dear LoneTreeLady, It's okay to be independent. I laughed at Anderson.......Perot.......and let's not forget Nader. Go indy's what a difference you have made in this country!
September 18, 2008
2:30 p.m.
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marine76 writes:
Rufus - the independent's got Clinton elected.......see Perot.
September 18, 2008
2:43 p.m.
Suggest removal
4gColoNative writes:
RMN:
At least the video states what the written article should have: the class was an English Composition one. Heck, it could have been a Political Science course for all we had to read.
September 18, 2008
2:43 p.m.
Suggest removal
Scott writes:
Cheap shot (droopy Richard, etc) BeefEaterGrins. I damn near never agree with JMac, but BioChem and Pharm are legit degrees and the blood pressure meds are keeping me alive. Much to DenverDan, et al, chagrin ;-)
Scott
September 18, 2008
2:45 p.m.
Suggest removal
Scott writes:
BTW, Metro State made national news.
http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/09/...
Scott
September 18, 2008
2:46 p.m.
Suggest removal
Cwillyrun1 writes:
Man...... the Palin haters are just pathetic. It's one thing to disagree with her on whatever, but some of the liberal posts here reek like a cowpie, and this so-called teacher is just another example of the dumbing down in our public schools. The teacher could've kept it balanced by asking for critical thoughts on both Presidential candidates and Vice-Presidential candidates, but Palin was singled out.
Either the teacher is a chauvenist, like too many seem to be with Palin as VP, or a Democrat supporter.... which both may just go hand in hand here. Consider the rants of "She's not qualified", and to think, she has more qualifications as VP than Obama does as President. Nope, I'm independant so don't cry. The other rants are against her down syndrome baby and her pregnant daughter..... something about "She should stay at home" is usually the ignorant one popping out. When it matters to running a country or the effect on our society, then I want to know personal things about a candidate.
For instance, what does it matter if Palin's daughter is pregnant? It doesn't mean she's not about family values, because if she wasn't, then Palin would castigate her daughter instead. Who should we criticize in this situation, the parent who is there for their daughter or the one that turns their back on their child? But another candidate's personal matter IS of relevance to the country and our society. Obama and his racist associations. Obama's church has racist sermons, against "whitey", and his pastors were leading the discrimination in full force. Obama's wife is "ashamed of America", and common sense tells us it's because of the history of the United States and racism. Well, the slavery and civil rights eras weren't a good thing, but we learned from it. What the deal with Obama tells me is that some people really haven't learned a thing, that racism is alive and well from those who scream against it.
If Obama has influences in his life like that, it'd be no different than having a candidate with several Aryan or KKK members as friends or known associates. But I'm sure that's not being taught in our public schools. My wish for this teacher........ write a 10,000 word essay on why Palin would be a good VP and let the students review it and the Principal grade it.
September 18, 2008
2:47 p.m.
Suggest removal
fntsymtn writes:
An obvious error in judgement by this professor certainly leads one to question his fitness to teach. How could he not have seen that his original assignment was un-ethical?
I know it's her job, but the spokeswoman has a crappy job defending bonehead decisions like this guy's.
September 18, 2008
2:49 p.m.
Suggest removal
4gColoNative writes:
Beyond grade 12 it is entirely appropriate for professors to take positions and state their opinions. Makes no difference if it is a publicly assisted school.
I can't believe anyone has to be told this. Go crawl back into your shell.
Yes, this particular instructor went too far.
September 18, 2008
2:49 p.m.
Suggest removal
Cwillyrun1 writes:
Ooops, meant "Dean" and not "Principal".
September 18, 2008
2:51 p.m.
Suggest removal
marine76 writes:
NoAXtoGrind - I agree that the hatred in this country is a huge problem. It's not just in the politics, it's in everything. Just look at other blogs on this site. The sports blogs are loaded with how I hate the .............., fill in the blank (raiders, chiefs, chargers, CU, CSU, etc...). Someone said that the more education you get, the more liberal you become. Perhaps it's, the more unhappy, uncontent and hateful you become. These people don't just want to win, they want the other people to be hurt.
September 18, 2008
2:52 p.m.
Suggest removal
Cwillyrun1 writes:
It may be appropriate to state an opinion, but to force students to write an essay they don't agree with in this type of class is unacceptable.
September 18, 2008
2:58 p.m.
Suggest removal
davies writes:
smullane: Thanks for your personal perspective.
You know what is disappointing here, is that I do not see any self-professed liberals or Democrats posting here who are condemning the professor. I mean, here's a guy who appears to be extremely biased, promoting and trying to impose his personal views (during an election mind you), while drawing a paycheck from a State college. The closest thing I saw to any liberal acknowledging any fault on the professor's part was jay's tepid 1:47 post.
But not good enough jay! ;-)
Yet on so many comment blogs, the libs will wail with outrage about Limbaugh so much, I swear they must tune into his show every day. Limbaugh is just a jolly old fat entertainer, with a little streak of hypocrisy. He'll probably 'bust a vein' before he hits 60. I wouldn't equate him with a college professor, would you? And yet for the libs posting here today, the bias is acceptable in Hallam's case... Well, libs, if it's so defensible, why is Metro State backpeddling?
I have a generally conservative bias. I recognize it as such. Could it be that liberals don't even recognize their position as being biased? Do liberals think that the liberal viewpoint is Truth, and only anything contrary to their Truth constitutes Bias?
September 18, 2008
3:01 p.m.
Suggest removal
anderson writes:
If I were a college teacher and assigned students to write an essay defending Lucifer (call it Sympathy for the Devil), it would probably get less attention than if I assigned students to write an essay on "the fairy tale image of Palin". Good media consumers are like Pavlovian dogs. They don't think, they just growl on cue.
September 18, 2008
3:05 p.m.
Suggest removal
ohpa51 writes:
FIRE HIM
September 18, 2008
3:06 p.m.
Suggest removal
anderson writes:
Davies can't make the distinction between a college professor and a talk radio host. That's why people need an education. Aw, who gives a F about education? Just run the commerical. And if we run too many Pepsi ads, someone will cry and will have to start running more Coke ads.
September 18, 2008
3:08 p.m.
Suggest removal
4gColoNative writes:
re: "It may be appropriate to state an opinion, but to force students to write an essay they don't agree with in this type of class is unacceptable."
yeah .... but sometimes it's good to give students the task of arguing their opponents' position. I think this is a technique for debating.
And even if students felt put-upon by this assignment, they're adults and they should be able to handle it. In fact, with a sense of humor and writing finesse they could actually turn it back in the face of the instructor.
I get the impression this particular student who ran to the media with this has led a sheltered life.
September 18, 2008
3:11 p.m.
Suggest removal
anderson writes:
ohpa51, can I join your mob? I'm tired of thinking--about anything.
September 18, 2008
3:18 p.m.
Suggest removal
Scott writes:
MarineGrunt,
Re: Droopy Richard
Nope, just high blood pressure and high cholesterol. Us squids never were into P.T. We let the Marines do it for us :-)
Scott
September 18, 2008
3:25 p.m.
Suggest removal
davies writes:
davies writes: "I wouldn't equate him with a college professor, would you?"
anderson replies: "Davies can't make the distinction between a college professor and a talk radio host."
anderson, you're new here, I think. Here, read this very slowly:
I - thought - that - I - was - making - the - point - that - we - should - reasonably - expect - more - objectivity - from - a - college - professor.
September 18, 2008
3:31 p.m.
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Cwillyrun1 writes:
4gcolonative........ this isn't a speech class and it's not an exercise in debate techniques. There was never any mention of that. It's an essay slanted against Palin.
It was mentioned that the Professor singled out Republican students for ridicule though, and even acknowledged as such by a Metro St. spokeswoman.
All of it put into proper perspective means the Professor is wrong. So are you for saying the students should be adults.... they are adults for not accepting this type of behavior.
September 18, 2008
3:32 p.m.
Suggest removal
Scott writes:
Darn it MarineGrunt! Re-read my 3:18 PM posting! My wife wishes I had "Droopy Richard" issues. Then she could get some sleep at night! :-)
Scott
September 18, 2008
3:32 p.m.
Suggest removal
anderson writes:
4gColoNative writes: "I get the impression this particular student who ran to the media with this has led a sheltered life."
I suspect today it is easier than ever to find political literature or media that matches any taste or notion--so that you can kinda select what you want to hear and avoid any contrary ideas--kinda like the teenager who only likes to eat hamburgers but they're always available so she never even has to put vegetables on her plate.
September 18, 2008
3:35 p.m.
Suggest removal
marine76 writes:
I would like to see the negative political adds end. All we see is why the other person is worse than I am. I'd rather see what they are going to do and how they are going to pay for it.
September 18, 2008
3:45 p.m.
Suggest removal
anderson writes:
davies, one thing of many things I learned from college is that there are more than two points of view, and that any two points of view are not always diametrically opposed. It's funny how you guys seem to know all the facts and the context to the story, and are ready to pass judgment. I like how those here who've never been to college, also see fit to pass judgment. As Buck Owens once said:
"You don't know me but you don't like me,
You say you care less how I feel
How many of you that sit and judge me
Ever walked the streets of Bakersfield"
September 18, 2008
3:50 p.m.
Suggest removal
freedomfighter1 writes:
If liberalism is so bad, then why are most higher education professionals liberal minded?
September 18, 2008
3:53 p.m.
Suggest removal
anderson writes:
Hey, I've got a joke regarding this student's complaint. It may not make Leno but, heck, here it goes:
Old-timer 1: How come the Republican party never seems to to move forward, to make any progress with voters any more?
Old-timer 2: Cause someone's always standing against them.
September 18, 2008
3:59 p.m.
Suggest removal
marine76 writes:
freedomfighter1, if being a higher education professional is such a desirable position, why aren't there more people competeing for the job?
September 18, 2008
4:10 p.m.
Suggest removal
anderson writes:
marine76: from what I know, or at least it was a few years ago: getting a position as a college teacher is one of the hardest things around--unless of course you want to be a part-time adjunct.
September 18, 2008
4:10 p.m.
Suggest removal
Scott writes:
freedomfighter1 queries: "If liberalism is so bad, then why are most higher education professionals liberal minded?"
Because they can't get a job out in industry.
Scott
September 18, 2008
4:10 p.m.
Suggest removal
chickenlittle1234 writes:
marine76 -
There are a lot of people pursuing higher education jobs, chief, because it's lucrative. A guy I used to work with is close to getting his Ph.D. in real estate, and he will pretty much write his own ticket with most any major university with a real estate program. He'll probably be fast-tracked on tenure, be able to set up consulting businesses on the side, and start printing money. The only problem is that it takes 8 years from the start of under-grad. He's a Republican, by the way.
September 18, 2008
4:14 p.m.
Suggest removal
Scott writes:
anderson,
The reason it is so hard to become a full time instructor, but easy for part-time is that the school pays less for adjunct, e.g. no benefits, etc.. Frontrange Community College use to (still does?) follow this line of "reasoning".
Scott
September 18, 2008
4:17 p.m.
Suggest removal
davies writes:
andy andy andy, the college is backtracking on the guy. He's not responding to interview requests. There has been no denial. He has revised the assignment.
He got caught with his pants down, and his Fruit of the Looms were showing 'ObamaMan the superhero'.
Court of law? Sure, I'll wait for proof beyond a reasonable doubt before I convict. But come on, we comment on a story as it currently exists. If you personally want to reserve judgement, that's one thing. But as Bruce Springsteen (flaming liberal, but an American brother) once said:
"So tell me who I see, when I look in your eyes,
Is that you, baby, or just a brilliant disguise?"
I'll watch your posts in the future, and see if you plead for the same empathy and evenhandedness for other (conservative) persons and viewpoints. Fair enough?
September 18, 2008
4:17 p.m.
Suggest removal
marine76 writes:
Anderson - I've never heard anyone say their goal was to be a college teacher. I have worked with several people that were college teachers that moved into the private sector. I could be wrong but I've never seen anything that's ever indicated that to be a desirable position.
September 18, 2008
4:17 p.m.
Suggest removal
anderson writes:
Scott, right wingers like you are distorters and liars of the first rank, and you have great disdain for everyone else in the world. You would have fit in nicely in Nazi Germany.
September 18, 2008
4:26 p.m.
Suggest removal
Scott writes:
anderson writes: "Scott, right wingers like you are distorters and liars of the first rank, and you have great disdain for everyone else in the world. You would have fit in nicely in Nazi Germany."
Huh? What does this rant have to do with my 4:14 PM comment? I was answering why it is hard to get a permanent full time teaching position at a college, its $$$. Jeeze, take a Quaalude, or another bong hit.
Scott
September 18, 2008
4:27 p.m.
Suggest removal
anderson writes:
marine76: we all have different interests and talents, and teaching is not everyone's bag, but some do like it. I thought it was just well known that it's hard to get a college professorship, but I don't have anything to offer in the way of evidence except that I went to small to medium sized colleges in the Midwest and the Yale PhDs they hired probably weren't coming there for the weather, and another excellent young professor I had lost her position because a tenured prof decided to return.
September 18, 2008
4:34 p.m.
Suggest removal
Scott writes:
marine76,
Regarding your 4:17PM posting: I know of one. He was an engineer at Bell Labs and decided that, 1) he wanted to move to a warmer climate, and 2) he wanted a easy ride to retirement. Therefore, he found a tenured professorship at the University of Alabama Birmingham. He only needed to teach one course per year. His main job was to raise money for a new department of which he chaired. Talk about a racket!
On second thought, this guy really wasn't a teacher. He just rode out an easy job until retirement.
Scott
September 18, 2008
4:37 p.m.
Suggest removal
marine76 writes:
Anderson re: "If liberalism is so bad, then why are most higher education professionals liberal minded?"
In your 4:27 post you said, "we all have different interests and talents, and teaching is not everyone's bag, but some do like it."
Did you answer the question yourself? Most higher education professionals are liberals becuase they like that job?
Being a teacher is a very honorable position. The lack of respect that children/people have for others eliminates that as an option for me. I'm grateful that others have a desire and the tolerance to do it, but I don't think that makes them better (or worse) than anyone else.
September 18, 2008
4:38 p.m.
Suggest removal
anderson writes:
Scott, I was replying to your previous bs claim that professors teach because they can't get a job in industry. Meanwhile, you made your first comment (4:14) that wasn't full of disdain for others. I agree with your reasoning in that post, but know that I don't take or smoke drugs and by saying I do you're back to your old ways of distortion and disdain. It must be hard to be humble, when you're perfect in so many ways.
September 18, 2008
4:39 p.m.
Suggest removal
PaleoConservative writes:
Liberals would be having seizures if a Conservative professor had asked his class to write a paper on the inherent evils of abortion.
September 18, 2008
4:39 p.m.
Suggest removal
marine76 writes:
Scott - you prove me wrong! That sounds like a very desirable position to me. :)
September 18, 2008
4:39 p.m.
Suggest removal
bookwerm writes:
Palin being an idiot and hugely unqualified is not a partisan matter, it is a matter of fact. My wife is losing sleep thinking about McDead dying in office and Palin taking over to RUN OUR COUNTRY!
September 18, 2008
4:45 p.m.
Suggest removal
freedomfighter1 writes:
Paleo
That's because abortion is not inherently evil.
September 18, 2008
4:47 p.m.
Suggest removal
davies writes:
anderson: Heck yes, overall I think most would say college instructors and professors in particular are more than likely going to be smart, high caliber people. But IMO some of the tenure comments running through here do have some validity (aside from some plain old anti-intellectualism you'd expect with a story like this too). Eggheads should be held accountable like everyone else, not to mention that some intellectuals tend to disparage non-intellectuals unfairly and unecessarily as well.
September 18, 2008
4:49 p.m.
Suggest removal
davies writes:
ff1: you just agreed with Paleo.
September 18, 2008
4:53 p.m.
Suggest removal
anderson writes:
marine76: I never made any claims about the political affiliations of college professors or ventured as to why they were so, or said anything about them being better (or worse) than anyone else. Did you see the story the other day about the retired Army officer who got his Phd and is now teaching political science at CU? It kind of debunks some of the notions put forth on this thread.
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news...
September 18, 2008
4:54 p.m.
Suggest removal
marine76 writes:
You read things that say the U.S. education system is falling behind other parts of the world. It's probably more the K-12 system because a lot of people still come here for higher education. If it's true, why is the U.S. system losing ground? What are we doing wrong, what are they doing right?
September 18, 2008
5 p.m.
Suggest removal
marine76 writes:
Anderson - you are correct, you didn't say the things I mentioned. My comments are directed at the thread, not at you.
September 18, 2008
5 p.m.
Suggest removal
p_myers661 writes:
Just go along and say whatever the teacher wants you to say?
A real conservative is quite reluctant to give voice or agreement to that which contradicts what they believe.
It is much more difficult to stand up for yourself in a situation where the benefit is great, the cost is small and things are stacked against you anyway.
In college, I had a professor who refused to give any female a grade higher than a C. His reason was that the girls were only going to that school (Colorado School of Mines) to get a rich husband. He was king of his classroom.
I was one of 23 females who were the entire female student body. No matter what we did, he gave us a C, or lower, grade. Even then, we had the ability to retaliate.
Parking on campus is precious. Professors have convenient parking places with their names on them. (Back then they did.) Over Christmas that year it snowed. It was very cold.
After Christmas, the professor returned to find his parking space filled with packed snow and ice that had been compacted and watered and refrozen multiple times. It was six feet high. Maintenance was unable (unwilling) to clear the space. He had to walk from the other side of the campus until late March.
The instructor who is at the center of this whirlwind has NOT been given the title, "Professor." He permitted his class to use obscenity and ridicule those students who admitted to being Republicans when he gave the assignment. (Listened to Mike Rosen interview two students today) It is totally appropriate for a teacher of any class to ask his students to think critically of any person or thing IF he allow them to choose the target. Rules and standards are proper parameters for an assignment. That is teaching students to think. This teacher wanted to teach them WHAT to think.
His new assignment, as read by Mike and probably posted someplace, is to pick your own presidential candidate or vice presidential candidate and do a critical analysis. That is what the first assignment should have been.
The abuse this person permitted and, according to the students, encouraged, is the basis for a lawsuit. Had it been a conservative professor allowing students to do the same thing to Democratic students, David Lane would be on their doorstep.
September 18, 2008
5:03 p.m.
Suggest removal
freedomfighter1 writes:
Davies
Just confirming that they wouldn't be upset to take a stance that they disagree with, it is the absurdity in the phrase of "inherently evil" that would distress liberals.
September 18, 2008
5:03 p.m.
Suggest removal
anderson writes:
davies, what are you going to convict this teacher of? Is handing out a poor assignment (assuming one comes to that conclusion) cause for condemnation? I don't think so. I get back to my earlier comments: college students need to deal with it. They need to deal with different, even unpopular ideas. They are not there to be coddled.
My politics are pretty much on the left but anyone who reads them should know I go to bat for conservatives too when they are unfairly criticized. See for example, my comments on the Campos column on Alaska. Mainly, I dislike dishonesty and misinformation.
September 18, 2008
5:06 p.m.
Suggest removal
marine76 writes:
Anderson - if you dislike dishonesty and misinformation who are you going to vote for? I think that rules everyone out.
September 18, 2008
5:12 p.m.
Suggest removal
Scott writes:
marine76,
Regarding your 4:54 PM posting. The first half of your posting is darn near an echo of what I was telling my math class last night!
To answer your first question and first half of second question:
1. Psycho-babble, that is, can't flunk or hold back Junior because it will mar his psyche. I had that discussion with my boss (he and his wife are from Pakistan) the other day. In Pakistan the K-12 teachers have no problem flunking or holding back a kid.
2. Teacher's unions. The administrators can't fire worthless pieces of meat that claim to be teachers. This is part of what drives my comment that if they can't get a job in industry, then they teach.
What are we doing right? Regardless of what the teacher's unions claim, MONEY and lots of it. The problem is that a lot of it gets misdirected to sewage such as feelgood/self esteem garbage and and overemphasis in sports. An example of the sports over academics is that Skyview High School in Adams County had no problem buying new football uniforms, but it was O.K. for the marching band's uniforms to look like something the Goodwill would reject.
Scott
September 18, 2008
5:25 p.m.
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Scott writes:
marine76,
Another thing that we are doing right. My youngest, the bean-counter, graduated from Skyview with 29 semester credits from CU Denver! The students (at least up until 2005, I don't know about now) were able to take CU Denver courses in math, science, English and history at Skyview. These courses counted both as high school credit and real college credit.
Scott
September 18, 2008
5:26 p.m.
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anderson writes:
pmyers, I like how you think you know the facts based on the word of two students that Mike Rosen found. You think he would provide more than a single point of view on the matter. No. Poor right wingers. The whole world is against them. And as I usually ask, they were damaged how? Cry me a friggin' river.
Why don't we just ask students whether they want to be liberal or conseratives as they walk in the door? Then we can give them "the conservative book" or "the liberal book". Save on a whole lotta "skull sweat" as Robert Heinlein might say. Then we can pop out robotomans, er, I mean conservative or liberal students who'll never ever have to ask questions or think about anything. Then if someone happens to go off message then the book has the correct dialogue ready for us: "the prof was so UNFAIR he (sniff) wanted my to write an argument (sniff) about something I didn't want to write about (choking back tears)", and then (true to script) everyone can woof and growl depending on which "side" they're on, and we can go to war which will be chronicled in future editions of "the liberal book" and "the conservative book" and there will never ever be any question as to where we stand except we'll know opposition.
September 18, 2008
5:51 p.m.
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MileHighPatriot writes:
For all of you -tards who compare radio shows to in-class teaching... go smoke a bowl (specifically ptorres ).
Classrooms are for learning, not becoming indoctrinated in political spectrums -right or left.
If the right did it in the 60s (back when you were just a young buck) then it was wrong. Today, they're doing the same from the other end (ironically because they are whiners) it is also wrong.
September 18, 2008
5:53 p.m.
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bira44 writes:
I'm sending Hallem a new t-shirt. It has a message: Stupidity isn't a crime ... You are FREE to go.
So the real message is: Go, Mr. Hallem. Leave. Take your cowardly bullying of students and shove off. You don't belong in any institution of higher learning if you have to resort to venting your bias, harrassing young people and bullying.
I have been teaching college courses for over ten years now. I know Hallem's type. He appears to have the arrogance gene.
September 18, 2008
6:07 p.m.
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marine76 writes:
Scott, we need to re-focus the education system back on to what is really important. Teaching the student the subject matter. I believe that the other countries are successful because they are commited and disciplined. They don't need the hand holding. They know what they are there for and they take care of business. People on this blog are talking about teaching the student to be free thinkers. Is that really what they need at school? Shouldn't the parents teach the kids to be leaders, not followers. Think for yourself. Don't follow the other kids, make them want to follow you. Maybe we should have a mandatory military service obligation after high school. The kids would get the leadership training and discipline they need before they go to college. The military would also help them pay for college. I know, a lot of people are going to be on me....the war, the war. The war won't last forever and most of the politicians voted for it. I know, GW lied......... It's where we are today but it won't last forever. I just don't see the kids getting what they need for America to be successful with the current leadership we have in our school systems. my 2 cents.
September 18, 2008
6:08 p.m.
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anderson writes:
And you've drawn all these conclusions based on what? Moreover, you know the instructor personally? Wow. His type is what? I know your type. It's B negative. I also know anyone can say about anything on the internet, fact, fiction, or fantasy, and children and dogs will take sides if you teach them how.
September 18, 2008
6:17 p.m.
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anderson writes:
marine76: I had a intstructor once from Iran or Iraq. He said that everyone had to take calculus there--I think in junior high. So, yes, K-12 is a problem here. As to why, I dont' know.
September 18, 2008
6:20 p.m.
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marine76 writes:
Those of you that are teachers - how much time do you spend dealing with the difficult kid? How much faith do you have in the leadership at your school to support you if want to try to fix the problem? The kid tells their parents that you weren't nice to them. Or you call the parent to ask them to help you try to fix the situation. How many of those parents turn on you and say their baby would never do anything like that, then your management (principal) turns on you? Being educated people, how many times are you going to go through that? Our teachers spend too much time trying to teach kids to be pepole and too little time teaching subjects. No wonder Obama puts his kids in private schools.
September 18, 2008
6:25 p.m.
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marine76 writes:
Anderson - I lived in Japan for 4 years. Their kids are very well educated. And for the most part they have respect for themselves and others. They don't tolerate nonsense in their schools. I also believe that they are very focused on teaching the kids the subject matter, not personal beliefs.
September 18, 2008
6:37 p.m.
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Scott writes:
marine76,
Regarding your 6:07 PM posting. Yup, I agree completely. Teaching subject matter, discipline in the classroom and commitment, etc.. In Colorado I believe that type of school is called Private and Charter.
Regarding learning leadership, thinking for yourself, and the rest. Scouting is also a darn good place to learn that. I'm sure I'll get blasted by the lefties for mentioning Scouting. BTW, my first degree was paid via the G. I. Bill.
Scott
September 18, 2008
7:21 p.m.
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ManginoTorreta writes:
I don't have a problem with the students blowing the whistle on this prof, just for the way he conducts his class alone, but at the same time, it's not that hard for a conservative student to make the long march through the institutions. For all the brains that college instructors have, a great deal of them are not particularly clever and are shockingly insecure, and it's quite easy to get good grades if you just smile and tell them what they want to hear because it feeds their sense of self-regard. Encouraging young people to think for themselves and form their own opinions based on facts, reason, and their own conscience, and evaluating how well they can discuss that opinion, are usually not high on a list of a professor's priorities. It's really not hard to roll with the punches, and in four years you can go on about your business.
From the sound of things, and based on his only having an MA right now, he's a typical wet-behind-the-ears instructor fresh out of grad school who's fired up to change the world and "make a difference." Give him about 20 years in academia, and he'll be so disillusioned with life he'll be glad to settle for passive-aggressively making snide remarks on papers and telling students about when he wore an onion on his belt.
September 18, 2008
7:52 p.m.
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davies writes:
anderson: I wasn't clear. I meant that the principal of 'innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt' applies in a criminal proceeding, but not to a newspaper article, as you seemed to imply at 3:45. I do not believe a criminal offense was committed by this instructor.
The point I intended to make is that I believe most would agree that it is reasonable to base comments on a blog like this, based on the content of the article and others' comments. You can't expect people to withold judgement on a newspaper article as though it was a criminal court case.
If more information were to come out that mitigates the fault of the instructor or exonerates him completely, well there will be an opportunity to comment on that another day then.
September 18, 2008
8:04 p.m.
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marine76 writes:
Scott - thank you for your service, in and out of the classroom.
September 19, 2008
12:56 a.m.
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GoMetro writes:
After hearing so much hatred spouted by the Right I feel it as my duty to ask a question. Has anybody taken the time to notice that this alleged "discrimination" (more double speak from the right) was brought to the media by a girl that happens to have a brother who is a member of a radical Right Wing Christian legal organization that advocates action and legal struggles against liberal institutions? The proof is right here.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.ph...
It is a conservative "news" sight, I suspect some of you will like it!
Further more, the "reporter" that broke the "story" (ironic quotes intended) is a former AP reporter that has brought lawsuits against school districts in Colorado! He also has a history of bias and unfair reporting and now works for the above conservative news media outlet as seen here:
http://conwebwatch.tripod.com/stories...
Thats the great thing about the internet, information at the tips of your fingers...
September 19, 2008
7:42 a.m.
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FCZ writes:
Andrew Hallam is another waste of taxpayer money.
He should try to get a job in the real world.
September 19, 2008
9:36 a.m.
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anderson writes:
davies, it's perfectly legitimate to draw conclusions from the article. However, many go way over the line, and assume facts and context that we don't know. Your comparison to a criminal trial is good. As in such a trial, we need to give the teacher and student a fair hearing. Unlike a criminal trial, we don't have to deal with very strict evidence requirements or standards of proof beyond a reasonable doubt, but we do still need evidence and not conjecture.
September 19, 2008
11:38 a.m.
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gs writes:
Scott, My comment yesterday was not a dig at you. My only intention was to pay honor to a very good Metro professor that I had a long time ago. The guy did a great job and deserves a very big thank you.
September 19, 2008
11:54 a.m.
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i1s1i1s1 writes:
My name is Peter Regenold Bergman. I'm a Professor at Metro State College of Denver in the Art Department. I have never met Andrew Hallam and I'm not associated with The English Department.
The first issue I'd like to address are the comments regarding Prof. Hallam being a "waste of tax payer dollars" and comments about how he couldn't (or should) get a job in "the real world". Many teachers in higher education could easily make more money in "the real world" and choose not to. Instead they devote a LOT of time and energy to the often-times thankless task of helping young citizens receive a higher education -- which is practically mandatory for success in todays America. As an adjunct Professor, Hallam would be paid roughly $3000.00 for the 16 week course and would spend 5 hours of contact time a week plus I would estimate and additional 4 hours outside the classroom grading an preparing lessons. Thats about $20/hour for someone with an advanced degree -- possibly even a PhD. So politics aside. EVERYONE should be seriously thanking ANYONE who would step up to the plate to do this job.
On the issue at hand: If the goal of Prof. Hallam's assignment was engendering critical thinking and fostering engagement in the political process by students it is a wild success. Jana Barber, the student who brought this assignment to the attention of the media, has undeniably become much more engaged in the political process that she would have been prior to the assignment. She is thinking critically and has even taken the issue of liberal bias in universities to the national stage at a critical juncture in the future of our nation. Conversely, students who are in agreement with Prof. Hallam's political views have also been afforded the opportunity to debate this issue in the media. Jana Barber may become a successful conservative commentator because of Prof. Hallam's assignment. Imagine the lines she's now able to add to her resume! Imagine the internships she can pull from this! This kind of debate is good for everyone! Kudos to Prof. Hallam for creating the kind of environment where Metro State student voices are catapulted into the nation spotlight!
Obviously, any allegations of bullying or inappropriate behavior by a person in a position of trust are taken VERY seriously by Metro State -- as evidenced by the steps that have been taken to address the concerns raised by Jana Barber. I would respectfully request that if Prof. Hallam is exonerated by his department and Metro State regarding personnel issues that the public let him continue to do an incredibly difficult job unimpeded by the kind of media hysteria that surrounded Ward Churchill.
Academic freedom is one of the core freedoms of The United States. Anyone who believes in freedom as an important principle guiding our nation should understand that academic freedom, along with general freedom of speech, of the press, and of religion form the cornerstones of our democracy.
September 19, 2008
11:56 a.m.
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4gColoNative writes:
Feel put-upon and disadvantaged by Liberals running higher education?
Suggest ya'll keep clinging to religion and guns... And send your kids to BYU, SMU, Temple, Notre Dame, Holy Cross, Loyola ...
September 19, 2008
1:01 p.m.
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p_myers661 writes:
Sorry. Can't see a monitor today so can't edit. Am working with a long keyboard/mouse cord set.
4gColoNative
Scratch Notre Dame. The liberation theologians haven't been cleared out yet.
If we had true education and not indoctrination, it would be impossible to determine the opinions of teachers and professors. It is as much by what is ignored, distorted or added to the simple facts as what is taught in the classroom that such determinations are quite easily made.
I enjoyed liberal professors even though I was evicted from his class for not backing down and for being able to make my case in clear and precise terms while his claims had to be explained because they included things not found elsewhere. (at least not in the real world)
One teacher tried to claim that requiring English Literature to be taught in high school was a real effort to marginalize all other cultures. When challenged to produce proof of this, he raged against the question even being asked. After listing the authors used in the class, including many who were of different cultures but in translations, I asked him what authors he would suggest. He ordered me out of the room and entered a failing grade for me. I went to the dean and he suggested I get an incomplete and be permitted to either transfer to another class or take a different class next semester without paying extra for it.
I was in a lot more trouble in my Education classes. Most important thing, back in the late 70's, was to, "keep the parents from interfering in the classroom."
I was much older than the rest of the students and have always been confrontational. My ECA on all my college applications was high school debate. Two man and four man. Never lost a two man debate. Lost two four man debates in three years. Why do you think I like it here so much.
Most students have already been beaten down to not disagree with the liberal viewpoints in a classroom. More homeschooled kids will soon be entering college. Expect the professors to either learn that their job is to inform not indoctrinate or to learn how to answer questions from Mike Rosen or other conservatives.
September 19, 2008
1:21 p.m.
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Jiminy_Cricket writes:
I'm glad GoMetro brought truth and logic to this crazy discourse...I love you GoMetro!!!
September 22, 2008
10:21 a.m.
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RufusTFirefly writes:
Late entry....just a quick response to marine76.......DUH!! That is totally what I meant. I know Perot was a puppet for the DEM'S. I was sickened by all the people that supported/voted for him.