KRIEGER: Holliday pleads his case
By Dave Krieger, Rocky Mountain News (Contact)
Published September 15, 2008 at 11:27 p.m.
Photo by Matt McClain © The Rocky
Rockies outfielder Matt Holliday is a free agent after next season and the Rockies might look to trade him this offseason if the two sides do not come to an agreement on a contract extension.
What should the Rockies do with Matt Holliday?
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The Rocks have five home games remaining in a lost season. Matt Holliday might have that many remaining in his Rockies career.
Holliday says he hasn't given it a lot of thought but acknowledges there will be some emotional detritus if that's how it works out.
"It's the only organization I've ever been a part of," he said before Monday night's game. "Ten or 11 years, and five in the big leagues. A lot of my teammates are some of my best friends in the world. So, yeah, if something were to happen, there'd be some emotions as far as teammates and last year's team, mainly, and all we were able to do last year."
The Rocks took a shot last spring at signing Holliday to a multiyear deal that would cover at least his first four years of free agency in the neighborhood of $18 million to $20 million per. Holliday and his agent, Scott Boras, turned it down.
From the organization's point of view, that indicated Holliday was headed for the open market at the end of next season. In the business of baseball, that makes this offseason the best time to get maximum value for him in trade.
But Holliday strenuously denies he has made a decision to test the market. To the contrary, he suggests the Rocks are determining that outcome by the nature of their offer.
"I'd like to stay here and be part of this and play here a long time, but there are things as a player that are important to me, and if those aren't part of whatever their offer is or ends up being, maybe I will test the market," he said.
"But to say that I don't want to be here and that I'm headed to the open market to get the most money I can get is extremely inaccurate."
Nevertheless, if the Rocks have offered what they can afford and he's turned it down, what other conclusion can they draw?
Holliday looked me in the eye, his face betraying a certain frustration at his inability to be understood on this.
"How many years is their bottom line?" he asked. "Yeah, if you look at it as just something on a piece of paper, as black and white, you would say, 'How could anybody ever turn that down?' Or, 'Why is that not enough?' But that's not all that goes into this.
"The offer doesn't even have to be market value. But half of the years that I could get on the open market, to me, is not in the same ballpark."
Holliday sees Miguel Cabrera sign an eight-year, $153 million deal with Detroit. He saw Mark Teixeira, also a Boras client, turn down an eight-year, $140 million offer from Atlanta. He thinks accepting a contract half as long is too much of a hometown discount. Nor is that the only issue.
"What about when they won't give you a no-trade clause, and the first chance that comes up where they want to trade you, they can just trade you?" he asked.
"The advantage of being a free agent and having a long-term deal is the security of staying in one place, right? So you can raise your family and be a part of the community. So what happens when in Year 2 it looks like I'm making too much money and they want to rebuild and they trade me. So now how am I looking?
"Those are all things that go into it. If you get a chance to entertain offers of six or seven years with a no-trade clause, you have a chance to live a normal life for six or seven years in one city, where you can raise your family and not worry about picking up and moving.
"So to take four years with no no-trade clause? To where if all of a sudden the organization wants to go in a different direction, you're out? Where's the loyalty then?"
The Rocks, of course, look to the locker next to Holliday's and see the nine-year extension they gave Todd Helton at 27, with two years still to run on his existing deal. At 35, Helton has back issues and his numbers have declined precipitously. The Rocks still owe him at least $56.9 million.
There's a lot of room between the nine-year deal they gave Helton and the four years Holliday says they offered him. To listen to Holliday, a six- or seven-year offer with a no-trade clause just might get a deal done.
"Bottom line for me is, if we can't get close and they trade me, I'd be OK with that," he said. "But to say that I don't want to be here is inaccurate, and to say that I feel like I have to test the free agent market is not accurate."
Either way, a long-term deal now looks like a long shot. If you're a fan, you might want to catch Holliday at the ballyard this week. Could be your last chance.
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September 15, 2008
11:46 p.m.
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RDenver writes:
What a bunch of crap. I like Holliday but it is about the money. Are you telling me $16 million a year for 7 years isn't enough? Anyway...see ya Matt. Enjoy your next team. I'm tired of these glorified millionaires making excuses why they can't except all this money when families like mine go to every home game and spend a $100 everytime we go.
September 16, 2008
12:07 a.m.
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den2mke writes:
RDenver...Obviously, you didn't read the story. The Rockies haven't offered $16M per annum for 7 years, that's the problem. While that may not be what he would command on the open market, I think he's being honest in saying it's the type of deal he'd take.
Look, don't lump this guy in with the other prima donas in baseball or any other sport. This is one of the most loyal, unassuming, down-to-earth guys in the league. Oh, and he can hit a little too.
Frankly, you never see this kind of candor from anyone else in Holliday's position: While he personally has everything to gain from hiding behind closed doors and letting his bulldog agent do all the dirty work, he's instead chosen to go out in front and, basically, remove some of his negotiating power by telling management the framework of a deal he'd take. I guarantee his agent would shutter to find even the insinuation that he'd take less to stay.
And, by the way, he left money on the table by signing the extension he did in the off-season too.
Just because the guy makes big money--which he deserves--and is in line to make way more doesn't make him a bad guy. This is what he does and these guys don't play forever.
With the emphasis on the farm system the Rockies have made they'll soon have to decide if they want stars around for some time or just plan to keep bringing up kids with talent.
September 16, 2008
1:40 a.m.
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TheSlinger writes:
thanks for nothing monforts. enjoy your 2007 national league championship banner. maybe holliday will let you take a picture of his ring when he leaves this joke of a franchise and goes to a legit baseball franchise that isn't afraid to pay players what they deserve. I would leave if i was matt. why stay where i know i will be sneaking into the wild card at best once every 10 years. what a joke. good luck matt.
September 16, 2008
6:24 a.m.
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Rickenator writes:
Let's face it - - the Rockies are a small market team. We cannot afford to pay any player, let alone Holliday, the type of money that he will command in the open market place. So let's appreciate his play while he was here and wish him the best in the future. As long as the Rockies concentrate on building a strong farm system (and acquiring the right pitchers through free agency) - - they'll stay competitive.
September 16, 2008
8:31 a.m.
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fastnloose writes:
Spending crazy money does not ensure a great season.I can't wait to watch the Yankees in the playoffs this year.What's that...you say their staying home this year.
September 16, 2008
8:47 a.m.
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1somelikeithot writes:
I see where Matt is coming from. He has a family he wants to raise without moving from city to city. He wants a long term deal with a no trade clause so he can do that. I don't think it's so much about the amount of money but the amount of years. That's what I get from what he's saying. And, no, you can't lump him in there with the Texiera's of the world. Tex is about the money. I wish Matt could get what he wants, but baseball is a business afterall and I would think that after what happened with Helton maybe they are somewhat gun shy of another long term deal. It's just the nature of the business, and whatever happens I wish Matt the best because he's a class act guy.
September 16, 2008
8:50 a.m.
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redshred writes:
Do you really think we don't have enough money to pay him? The only thing preventing him from getting the 6+ year deal he wants is the Monfarts. They think that he will be the next Helton making more than he's worth for declining performance. Thing is, Holliday won't slow down like Helton because of the type of athlete he is.
I know someone close to the Monforts, and I asked them at the beginning of LAST season why they won't spend more money on good players (this was when 1/3 of the seats were filled for a couple years), and the response was "because they are making enough of a profit already, so they don't see the point..." So, if you didn't figure it out already, we have money-grubbing owners that don't care about alienating their entire fan base as long as they are making a profit. They will ride that NL pennant as long as they can, and it's ridiculous.
Pay Holliday his $18M for 6 year, sign a GOOD PITCHER for $10-12M/yr, and actually have a shot at winning something. Novel idea.
September 16, 2008
9:01 a.m.
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redshred writes:
Also, the Rockies don't have to be a small market team. You saw what happened when they started winning games - nearly every seat had a butt in it. If they put a competitive team out there every year, they could be like the Broncos or the Avs. Sell-out nearly every game guaranteed. This is a sports-hungry town, and people will pay to see a good show.
September 16, 2008
9:18 a.m.
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Ted75zcar writes:
The Monforts are PRINTING money in the basement of Coors field. Regurgitation of the statement "we are a small market team" only shows that the Monforts are shrewd businessmen who can pull the wool over your eyes, punch you in the mouth, and convince you that you like it.
The owners need to go, and the new owners need to take a flier from Pat and Stan the man.
September 16, 2008
9:51 a.m.
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Chadley25 writes:
"goes to a legit baseball franchise that isn't afraid to pay players what they deserve."
__________________
I'm really sorry, but "DESERVE"? Give me a break. No human being DESERVES to be paid $10-20 million a year to play a freaking game for six months. What they can be paid on the open market is one thing, yes, but there is no question of "deserving."
Baseball would be well-served with a salary cap and the abolition of the players' union. It's my favorite sport, but it also has the whiniest crybaby players of any major sport.
September 16, 2008
10:31 a.m.
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NorCalGuy writes:
In this day and age 6 years at $18-20 million per is more than adequate. Matt Holliday is never going to be confused as someone who's a gold glove caliber fielder. When he first came to the big leagues he could hardly throw and teams ran on him frequently. My high school varsity center fielder has a better arm and that's not an exaggeration. He's not close and never will be compared to guys like Beltran, Rowand and Jeff Francoeur. As for guys getting what the market will bear, he does deserve that. It takes most major league players 4-6 years of toiling and making unbelievably bad money in the minors, other than bonuses. I begrude guys like him and other budding superstars nothing, if teams will pay it then they deserve it. However, getting traded and having to move around goes with the territory. As for Scott Boras he happens to be from the same area I grew up in and his success as a super agent is inspiring. Whatever you may think of him he is extremely protective of his clients and they often don't take his advice. He doesn't force himself on his clients, they make their own, final decisions about money and what they want in a contract. Military families get moved around all the time and survive, and they make a hell of a lot less money.
September 16, 2008
10:50 a.m.
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redshred writes:
Holliday has vastly improved his fielding, so quit talking out of your rear. He was the most recruited QB coming out of high school besides Carson Palmer, so how could he be lacking arm strength? His shortcomings were his range and the angles he took on fly balls. He fixed that.
He's a player that will hit 30+ HR, 100+ RBI, 30 SB, and bat .330. If we don't have him in the lineup, we get pitched to a lot differently because he's the one guy that can, and will, hurt you.. Not a lot of players can consistently hit good pitching, but he is one of them.
September 16, 2008
10:55 a.m.
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akugyaku writes:
They need to deal him and get the most value out of him. He hits like .360 at Coors and .275 everywhere else. Someone who is only good for half the season and average the other half is not worth 20M/Year. Trade him while his value is high and let Boras pull the wool over someone else's eyes.
September 16, 2008
11:09 a.m.
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GeeTee writes:
Why not see how much he wants to be in CO. Offer 7 years at $15mil per year and see if he bites. If not, trade him for an All Star level player and lock that guy in.
Just get rid of Taveras, Hernandez and Vizcaino!!
September 16, 2008
11:15 a.m.
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GeeTee writes:
And if Helton hadn't been juiced on SOMETHING those few years ago, maybe his body would not be turning on him like it is the past few years. A guy doesn't go from hitting like he did 1999-2003 to his powerless output now.
These contracts should have in them clauses where if the player does not produce, then he pasy back the team.
September 16, 2008
11:15 a.m.
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NorCalGuy writes:
Let's face it, whatever he gets won't be what current ownership wants to pay. He may have been a great QB in high school but that doesn't always translate into throwing a baseball. When he first came up teams ran on him mercilessly, and the Giants commentators and others frequently noted his lack of arm strength. I do agree with you about his offensive production, for the past two years he's been the Rockies most feared hitter. The first three years of his career Todd Helton and he terrorized pitchers. The Rockies need Holliday, and some other guys to protect him in the batting order.
September 16, 2008
11:27 a.m.
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BalltownIA7 writes:
He is one of the best guys in baseball and as Rockies fans you have to be okay with bringing up decent players and when they get good, the Rockies will have to trade them for more young talent. Or if they put a lot of money into one or two guys they won't pay anyone else so you will have them surrounded by young talent. Get used to it, this isn't going to change. They should have traded Helton 3 or 4 years ago and if they don't trade Matt they won't get anything for him. Tulo will be here surrounded by good young talent and he will leave when his deal is up.
September 16, 2008
11:32 a.m.
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street2 writes:
Trade him. Only the American League can hide his defense and over pay him.
September 16, 2008
11:38 a.m.
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NorCalGuy writes:
RDenver, $100 every time you go to a game? I wish I could spend that little. I took my son and daughter to a Rockies game on July 5th while I was visiting from California. The evening cost me $300, three $47 seats behind home plate (a bargain), food and stuff from the Rockies store (not a bargain.) Those same seats for a Saturday Giants game at Pac Bell (now AT&T park) would cost $105 each.
September 16, 2008
11:54 a.m.
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mmmark217 writes:
Some of you people are totally ignorant. Holliday, or any other player for that matter, deserves as much money as the market will pay him. Are any of you going to sit there and tell me that if at your job, you were allowed to negotiate your salary, you wouldn't actually ask for as much as you thought they would pay. Furthermore, would you actually take less money to stay in your current position if someone was going to pay you more? And as for Unions, We need more unions as the CEO's of this country make Millions and Millions and the middle class dwindles due to mismanagement by Big Business. Try going to your boss as 1 person and trying to get a situation at work changed. Then try going to your boss with 4 or 5 or 20 people with the same issue and see what happens. Unions try to do things that BENEFIT you and you're too stupid to know it.
September 16, 2008
11:56 a.m.
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arvada_mark writes:
There are many problems here, but the underlying theme is that the Brothers Monfort still think owning a professional sports franchise is a money maker. Very few clubs turn a profit. They need to get out of the business since they can't afford to play the game the right way.
On another note, Holliday deserves to be one of the top 10 paid players in the game. He's that good. He also deserves a long term deal, from whoever is fortunate enough to sign him. And he does deserve credit for coming public in this manner. Ask the beantown babies about how Manny handled his contract situation. That town used to love him, now they hate him. Holliday is a true professional that deserves ours & the Brothers Monfort's respect.
"Pay him, pay that man his money." Teddy KGB.
September 16, 2008
12:06 p.m.
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arvada_mark writes:
I'm sick of everybody bagging on Helton. I tell you what, DiMaggio, why don't you put a body cast around your torso & try hitting for power? Because with his back problems, that's what it's like, except that when Helton swings a bat, he is in excrutiating pain. Over the past 10 years, no 1st baseman has played more games than Helton. Over the past 10 years, Helton has the highest batting average & best fielding percentage of anyone. Got it? He is truely one of the great players over the past decade, so watch who you run your mouth about.
September 16, 2008
1:04 p.m.
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SDcat writes:
I can't even believe this is up for debate. Sign him long term, if he wants to be here, which he clearly does...sign him! Quit throwing away $1million here and there for the Hernandezs' and Reynolds'.
As for those who think Holliday isn't worth the money, consider the following.
---How much money did and will Holliday(along with Tulo, Atkins,Hawpe(et.al) generate for this organization by his(their)mere presence,(i.e. ticket sales, merchandise, etc of which the Monforts certainly get a share). He deserves the money and the long term deal. Look at the attendance figures for this year(even during the downturn of the team and the economy).
--They've already given Tulo after one year, 6 years at $31 million(of which he probably screwed himself out of more money by accepting, which he did largely based on the assurance that THIS core would stay in tact.)
-- The argument that he only does well at home is bogus, as of today Home - .338 Away .311. His base running is excellent(25 of 26 steals). His fielding has dramatically improved this year as well.
Holliday has more than proven his worth and loyalty to the team and the community.
As a proud member of the RockiesNation(?), my loyalty as a fan was cemented by THIS group of players for what they accomplished last year, (which was no small feat) and for what they will accomplish again in the future. The RoxNation pays the Monforts for OUR pleasure of watching the best athletes and baseball players, play the finest game in sports. Not any random player from the minors in a Rockies uniform can fill the aforementioned shoes.
September 16, 2008
4:45 p.m.
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mkcampin2 writes:
sick of everybody bagging on Helton. I tell you what, DiMaggio, why don't you put a body cast around your torso & try hitting for power? Because with his back problems, that's what it's like, except that when Helton swings a bat, he is in excrutiating pain. Over the past 10 years, no 1st baseman has played more games than Helton. Over the past 10 years, Helton has the highest batting average & best fielding percentage of anyone. Got it? He is truely one of the great players over the past decade, so watch who you run your mouth about.
exactly right.. helton was the best when healthy...let him heal
and he will start ripping the ball again.
HELTON COME BACK STRONG.................
September 16, 2008
6:39 p.m.
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mmmark217 writes:
Hey, I know that this is supposed to be about sports, but let me give you a little history lesson about Unions. You know that 40 hour work week you get every week? A union fought and got you that 40 hour work week. You know that time and a half pay you get for working over 40 hours a week? A union fought to provide you with that. You know about Workman's Compensation and Unemployment? A Union Fought For YOU to HAVE THAT. I could go on, but I just wanted to give you a little Taste of what Unions in this country have done for you.
Here Endeth the Lesson.
September 21, 2008
7:48 p.m.
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pastor_scott writes:
I don't believe Matt Holliday is being honest in his words. If you can't live the rest of your life on 60-80 million dollars which is what you'd get in a four year deal of 18-20 mil, how do you survive friend? I'd like to get 5% of that and I could have a nice life with plenty to leave my kids.
Until baseball wises up and adopts a salary cap like every other major sport has done this is our future.
As for what needs to be done, Holliday needs to be swapped NOW for a number 2 pitcher and a prospect. Sign the #2 guy to a three year deal and save your dough for the future. Hawpe had a good year as has Atkins. Atkins should replace Helton. Helton has been a heck of a player but he should hang 'em up or go to the American League where he can bat a while longer if his health allows him to. Nice guy...Great player in his prime. But he's a drag on the payroll now.
Same with Fuentes. No way the guy commands top dollar. He had a meltdown prior to the playoffs last year. He will leave and sign for high dollars that someone will regret. Look at Jason Jennings. Everyone wanted us to pony up 10-mil for him. Aren't you glad we didn't now?
With a solid #2 behind Cook. A bullpen with Bucholz in the closer role and Hawpe, Taveras, and Spillborghs in the outfield gives this team a chance to compete in a weak division. Cut off some dead weight and invest in some younger role players (Torrealba, Herges, etc..) and you have a chance to build something. Stay where you are now and you have some nice eye candy but a team that was a fluke last season and is in serious need of help.