RINGOLSBY: Fading Rockies could be bold in offseason

By Tracy Ringolsby, Rocky Mountain News

Published September 11, 2008 at 4:38 p.m.

Text size

Lineup

NUMBERS GAME

10 four-out saves for Boston right-hander Jonathan Papelbon this season. The only other pitchers with five or more are Mariano Rivera of the Yankees with eight, Brian Wilson of the Giants with six and Jonathan Broxton of the Dodgers with five.

JOB FINISHED EARLY

The Angels' Sept. 10 clinching of the American League West title was the earliest that division has been wrapped up since divisional play began in 1969.

It is the fourth division title in five years for the Angels, who also were the AL wild card when they beat the Giants in the 2002 World Series.

HE SAID IT

"Lou's done that forever. We all hate to lose. This is no fun for any of us, going through this. But, still, my mindset and my thought process is that the more steady and even-keeled we can stay, the quicker we'll get out of it."

Brewers manager Ned Yost on his calm response to a 3-7 homestand compared to Cubs manager Lou Piniella's recent outburst.

More Sports Columns & Blogs

Comments

September 11, 2008

6:17 p.m.

Suggest removal

warrengfunk7 writes:

if teh Rockies want to contend next season, they need to get rid of Todd Helton and keep Atkins at 1B and keep Matt Holiday. They need to re-sign Brain Fuentes. They need to get Franklin morales pitching in the rotation again.
September 11, 2008

6:24 p.m.

Suggest removal

republinaziorcommucratNOT writes:

I quit reading your stuff when I realized that you're nothing but a cheerleader for the owners. Don't you get paid by Fox to appear on their pregame shows? Doesn't Fox own a portion of the Rockies? Doesn't that constitute a conflict of interest? How can what you say be trusted as "objective".

Trading Holliday will only drive fans like me further away. But then you probably don't care about that anymore than the Rockies seem to. After all, don't you get in for free?

Fire O'Dowd. Fire Hurdle. Fire the Monforts.

Nothing else is acceptable. Then maybe, MAYBE, I'll give the Rockies some of my entertainment money.
September 11, 2008

8:01 p.m.

Suggest removal

puxico1 writes:

Stop the get rid of Todd Helton talk. No team would give you a dozen baseballs for him. With a cronic back condition and a huge contract he's not going anywhere unless he retires. So please no more.
September 11, 2008

8:53 p.m.

Suggest removal

SDcat writes:

I am the #1 Rockies fan in the land of Padres. And for me, if we traded Holliday, Atkins, Hawpe, Francis or current core player, without an eye to come back and reclaim the pennant next year with said core players...wellll, I choke on the words...

could very likely drive me to the Padres..it would be the biggest f/u to the Rox fan base everywhere. I sure hope this just a bunch malarky to get readers....
September 11, 2008

10:27 p.m.

Suggest removal

ColoradoSpringsFan writes:

First off, lay of Mr. Ringolsby. He's no homer or voice for mgmt, he is a HOF writer and with Peter Gammons one of the best two baseball writers in the biz. When you in the HOF, then gripe about him!
puxico1 is right, for better or worse, Helton will be here next year bc of that contract and back. Remember that when we hear Holliday wants 7 years. Small market teams (and no billion dollar owner is coming in the night to waste money, so deal with it) cannot make big contract mistakes. We did w/ Nagle and Hampton and that brought about Todd and Toddlers. Now Helton's contract limits what they can do with Holliday and Atkins. O'Dowd has done a decent job w/ the limitations he has. We are set at RF,3B (Stewart), SS and C and bc of Helton, 1B. Holliday is the limiting factor. If he was signed, we might have made the offseason deal for Haren, but the players they wanted are the fill-ins if we lose Holliday. Once that situation is decided, then the minor league talent can be used. Until then...well, you don't want to be sitting out there in two years with AA guys over their head or the proverbial 4A guys who just aren't quite up to snuff. Its going to be a hard but interesting off-season. Too bad Holliday (the only guy capable of carrying this team singlehandedly) slumped now or we might have made it interesting in September.
September 12, 2008

7:47 a.m.

Suggest removal

Hambone writes:

The criticism of Tracy is unfortunately justified. He is a great writer but he seems to give the Rockies the benefit of the doubt continuously. Tulowitzki was his preseason MVP pick!! huh?

Getting rid of the majority of the right-handed power bats is extremely scary considering the lack of pop we had in the lineup this year.

Apodaca needs to be the first firing.
September 12, 2008

7:59 a.m.

Suggest removal

SLoganSt writes:

You know they want to keep Holliday and Atkins. But, if they are not willing to take a deep, serious hometown discount, then what can O'Dowd do? I'm sure it has been discussed, but could they setup a long term, back-loaded contract, so that when Helton's contract comes off the books in a couple of years, then the big money kicks in for them?
As far as firing the Monforts, hello, it is a private business, and they are the owners. What can you do?
September 12, 2008

8:58 a.m.

Suggest removal

dakar writes:

This is a very underachieving team, they've failed miserably in all categories this year from ownership and manager/coaching to hitting and pitching. I would like to see them keep most everyone and go out and sign another good starter and a closer as well. Give them 3 months next year and if their not at least .500 trade away Holliday and Atkins and fire Hurdle.
September 12, 2008

9:12 a.m.

Suggest removal

RDenver writes:

Hopefully O'Dowd and the Monforts will come to their senses and find a real manager rather that a wannabe guy like the Clintster!
September 12, 2008

9:14 a.m.

Suggest removal

RDenver writes:

republinaziorcommucratNOT...are you still taking your medication??
RINGOLSBY is one of the best and most impartial baseball writers around. Guy has won more awards that Michael Phelps. Maybe you should learn how to read!
September 12, 2008

9:31 a.m.

Suggest removal

GeeTee writes:

Why not keep most of the team intact for '09 and try to make another run at the pennant? No way should Holliday or Atkins be traded unless the Rox get an All-Star caliber player in return -- that's a consistent 15-game winner or a huge bat. If we have to pay Helton, doesn't mean he has to play every day -- Rox have been paying Hampton for years w/o any return. Taveras MUST go -- his downfall has always been his crappy OBP and he ain't that great in the outfield. Screw stolen bases -- give us some HRs and RBIs! Give Fowler his shot. Decide on a 2B and stick with the guy -- Barmes and Baker could fill that slot and be good if they played regularly. Stewart needs some BP and to stop striking out so much. Keep Atkins -- maybe the most under-rated player in baseball. We have three decent starting pitchers -- but Hernandez and Vizcaino MUST GO -- just cut them if necessary. Sign Fuentes, lock in Spilborghs and Podsednick. And give Hurdle notice -- playoffs or good-bye.

Go Rockies in 2009!
September 12, 2008

10:47 a.m.

Suggest removal

fastnloose writes:

Why get rid of the racecar when there are big questions about the tallent of the driver. Let's don't sell the parts until we solve the driver question.Also, hold O'Dowd responsible for the new coach.He fails, Dan follows him out the door.
September 12, 2008

12:48 p.m.

Suggest removal

chartguy writes:

Bottom line: The Monforts want to charge major league ticket prices but only want to pay minor league salaries.

The Rockies will not get any better until they have ownership with deep enough pockets to pay to keep players like Holliday and Atkins.

I don't expect any owner to pay a lot to a pitcher. Pitchers are not consistent enough (see Barry Zito, for the latest example). But hitters do not forget how to hit. If you keep your good hitters, you'll win more games. The fans will come, IF YOU WIN. Instead, we're caught in the cheapskate owner death spiral. They don't pay the players, so the team doesn't win, and the fans don't come, and the cheapskate owners use that as an excuse not to pay.
September 12, 2008

2:17 p.m.

Suggest removal

fjv1026 writes:

Ok...here's my take:

I won't criticize Tracy, as I find him to be a darn good sports writer. I will, however, disagree with him that the Rockies should move on without Atkins and Holliday. I think that if one of them had to go, it would be Holliday. He's an outfielder. We have some very capable guys who can fill the left field spot (like Baker, Spilborghs, Podsednik). True, you can't replace athleticism like that but then again, would you want to pay $200 million for it? Not for 30ish home runs per season, no. Atkins, in my opinion, is more valuable to the Rockies as he and Ian Stewart proved this year. I think they make a great combination at 1B and 3B. So what about Helton? That's tough. Huge contract, bad back, perennial singles hitter. It's not my money so its easy for me to say "buy him out" or "release him" so I'll I will say is that Todd has been a great thing for the Rockies and fans for a decade and its sad to see how things have gone. Then again, what good is a $16million singles hitter? Our bullpen is completely horrible. Do we give Fuentes big money to stay? "Rollercoaster Fuentes" is horrible to watch; there is a reason he lost his job in the first place. Let him go and give the ball to Taylor.

Apodaca and Hurdle must go. I have watched probably 100 games this season and am continually astonished at some of the bonehead moves (or non-moves) Hurdle will make during the course of a game. Hurdle is too comfortable with his standing in the organization. Couple that with being a lousy manager in the first place and there's nowhere to go but down. Apodaca couldn't coach his way out of a paper sack. I think with the advent of the humidor, we cannot blame the altitude for the crappy pitching anymore.

O'Dowd? Given what the crappy ownership has allowed him to do monetarily, I think he's done a decent job. Not sure why he's so stuck on Hurdle but he's not bad. He's made some head-scratching moves but what GM hasn't. Remove Hurdle, sign a proven winner and all is forgiven with me.

There's my take. Yes, trading Holliday will make fans go away but we still have great core talent there. Giving both Holliday and Atkins away will signal "rebuilding" and I'm not sure if the Monforts will ever get the fans back.

P.S. Leave the d**n ticket prices alone this year. See what happens when you raise them after a fluke post-season run???
September 12, 2008

3:07 p.m.

Suggest removal

NorCalGuy writes:

I you had to pay the $75.3 million due on Todd Helton's 9 year, $145 million contract you'd be cautious after that too. The problem with these contracts is that there's no reasonable buyout for the owners when the player's performance tanks and they don't want to retire, as in Helton's case. His back injury is degenerative and he won't be the same player he was, no matter how much he wants to be. Matt Holliday is having an outstanding season and should get paid long term, but unless the Rockies are going to somehow magically get the budget of the Yankees, Red Sox, Cubs, Cardinals or Dodgers it's not going to happen. He appears to not want to give the Rockies a home town discount nor does Atkins and really, why should they? It's a business, if players weren't treated so lousy, salary wise, when they're coming up through the minors they might be more inclined to opt for less money. If I were them I'd hire Scott Boras and take my chances in free agency. Once that happens teams have no choice, they either have to trade the player or be satisfied with draft picks. In the case of Holliday and Atkins they're both too good, you have to get as many players and as much as you can in trades.
September 12, 2008

3:22 p.m.

Suggest removal

NorCalGuy writes:

Excuse me, Todd Helton's 9 year $141 contract. The Mike Hampton 8 year, $121 million contract also wasn't exactly fruitful. I'd hate to be a GM is this age. If you overspend on the wrong guys you're in trouble with the owner, and if you trade budding superstars because they have an agent like Scott Boras, you get crucified. It's a no win situation. If you're the owner the kiss of death is to keep raising prices, there is a limit to how much change fans will tolerate.
September 12, 2008

3:53 p.m.

Suggest removal

Hayduke1 writes:

Ringolsby is a fine sports writer but he can't, for whatever reason, be as candid about the Rox as he can about other teams. It's too bad because if he decided to be a journalist instead of a reporter he'd be able to set us all straight.

Lots of teams find themselves in positions where they have good players they can't keep and move them to other teams. Hopefully O'Dowd will be able to get fair value for those who will be moving on. I for one would not be sorry to see Hurdle leave. The most disturbing thing about him as a fan is that he never looks you in the eye, can't trust somebody who does that! Also, he doesn't seem to have big league skills, which is probably more important but I can't get past the fact unless he's asking for money he never looks at us. Stupid I know but when you lose respect for someone all the little things start to build up.
September 12, 2008

4:19 p.m.

Suggest removal

NorCalGuy writes:

Clint Hurdle is a like a lot of "pro ball" guys. They can seem very dismissive and he would probably prefer to not be bothered. But, I think he's spent many sleepless nights this season trying to find something that will work consistently. The day in day out nature of an MLB season can make guys like Clint overexposed. I wish they wouldn't have daily news conferences to talk to him about nothing. Most days I would prefer to just watch the game and not have a pregame or postgame show. When it's going good you're a genius when it's going bad you're an idiot. If not Clint, then who?
September 12, 2008

5:40 p.m.

Suggest removal

LockeRobster writes:

1.) ANYONE (including Helton) can be traded if you eat enough of their contract, bad back or not. I'm willing to be that if the Rockies ponied up 50% of what's left on his deal then they could move him. But he has 10/5 rights as well, so he can veto any deal that he doesn't like.

And another thing about Helton: I'm tired of hearing about what a team-first guy he is. He refuses to defer any of his remaining money, which would free up the funds for them to keep Holliday, and he has also made it known that he is pretty much going to veto almost any deal that they put together to move him. Those are "me-first" attitudes, not "team-first". I know his drop off in production isn't his fault, and that no one put a gun to the front office's head and forced them to offer him that contract. But it's also true that he's been paid nearly $100 million by this franchise, and the good-guy thing to do in light of that would be to work with them and not against them. So we'll get a much better idea about who Helton REALLY is this coming winter when the tough decisions start coming around.

But make no mistake: If Helton is still on this roster in 2009, and he holds to his refusal to defer any of his remaining money, then Holliday is gone either this winter or at the trading deadline next year.

2.) Let's put some blame on the fielders/hitters this year as well as bringing the heat on the pitchers. The Rockies are going to score right at 100 fewer runs this year than they did last year, and there's enough blame to go around. Two guys have done about what we expected (Holliday and Hawpe); one guy has exceeded expectations (Iannetta); and the rest of the lineup has underperformed (except for Stewart once he went to AAA and came back up). The team batting average and batting average with runners in scoring position are both off right at 20 points from last season. The only thing they're doing better this year than last year is stealing bases. That's it.

They have to figure out who is going to play CF and 2B on a consistent basis (or get a set platoon in place). I'm guessing that Fowler is going to get some extended playing time in CF the rest of this season and into spring training next year. And I still hope they will give Jayson Nix another shot like they did with Ian Stewart. Stewart struggled early this year in the majors, too, remember? Then he went back to AAA and sorted it out, and started mashing the ball when he came back up. Nix was hitting the cover off the ball in the Springs after his demotion, too, and I hope they afford him another opportunity. But he just may be the classic AAAA player, too, which means either Barmes or Baker needs to make a move to claim the position. I lean to Barmes because he's the better fielder.

And while it was going to be hard to match last year's record-setting performance defensively, the drop-off has been FAR worse than anticipated. I think Tulo's injuries had a lot to do with that, to be honest.
September 12, 2008

6:21 p.m.

Suggest removal

tulorockies writes:

Agree with Hayduke1. Ringolsby is a great writer but when he editorializes about the Rockies, he is extremely pro-management 100% of the time. This article is a classic example because it does not make sense to trade both Holliday and Atkins. Management is probably thinking about trading both and had him write this to gauge our reaction and to start preparing us for this possibility. In return, management probably gives Ringolsby the breaking stories before the Denver Post. The Monforts need to dish out the cash to sign at least one of them. Holliday will supply more production but Atkins would cost less, giving the team more payroll flexibility and the ability to rest Helton more (Stewart could start in left with Atkins at third and then when Helton is rested, Atkins could shft to first and Stewart to third with Spilborgs, Smith etc... starting in left. But the team can't lose both Holliday and Atkins absent a monster trade where they get some great pitchers and a RH bat as good as Holliday and Atkins'.
September 12, 2008

6:51 p.m.

Suggest removal

Tropp_itlikeits_hot writes:

DO NOT LET MATTY AND/OR GARRETT GO!!!!!
Does anyone in the Rockies management remember what Tulo said during his press conference to announce his contract extension?? He said he felt good about signing because the management led him to believe that they would try their best to keep a competitive team on the field and try to keep the 07 team together.
It would be in the best interest of the organization to keep these guys together. Keep the fans in the seats. Keep your star shortstop happy. Its a win-win situation. This is not a complicated concept.
September 12, 2008

11:11 p.m.

Suggest removal

carryBIGstick writes:

To republinaziorcomucratNOT
HOW DARE YOU!
Fire the Monforts?
First of all, they own the team. You can't fire the people who put their money into it, and unless I'm wrong, your personal money is not on the line with this organization. You are not allowed to spend other peoples money or to expect them to spend it on how you see fit. Pure and simple, it does not belong to you.
Don't like the Rockies, Hurdle, O'dowd, or the owners, fine don't go to the games. The people you want fired have no obligation to please you. Who do you thing you are?
I doubt you have enough money to purchase your own team, so I guess it easier for you to insult people who have actually accomplished the dream of owning a pro team, than for you to actually do it.
Also, Tracy is a Hall of Famer, you write stupid comments. Tracy is much more important than you will ever be.
September 15, 2008

1:24 a.m.

Suggest removal

aces3b09 writes:

first of all...Todd Helton is not going anywhere, you gotta love the guy but the money he is making is killing us. I believe with the limited playing time they're talking about giving him next season (4 to 5 games a week) he can still be very productive...he probably wont hit over 15 home runs or drive in any more than 70 runs but if he's feeling good he's still a hell of a hitter, and besides that if they platoon him with Koshansky he'll make up a little for the lack of power...that guy hits the living snot out of the ball he just needs to cut down the strikeouts. Second, it would just be plain nuts to trade Holliday this offseason, he's signed through next season so for the love of God why can't they just keep it in their pants and stop talking about it, if they're out of contention before the deadline then he is gone. Atkins is most likely gone this offseason which I'm fine with, Ian Stewart is a manchild and will do more than make up for Atkins lack of clutch hitting this season, and besides that they can get a good arm for him which they so desperately need!! Willy Tavares, I will miss his speed but I believe Dexter Fowler is going to be amazing, next year I think we should just throw him to the wolves and see if his potential pays off, he may not be great his first season but his on base percentage sure as hell won't be any worse than Tavares...everything I've heard and seen about the kid is all good news, and besides that Ernie Banks himself says Fowler reminds him of himself at that age...we can only hope! Iannetta is only going to get better, Tulo will be fine, Hawpe will be Hawpe (hit and miss) and I think they should just stick with Baker as their primary second baseman...the guy has shown that he can be very steady with consistent AB's...the pitching on the other hand...God help us...the rotation should be good next season if Cook can continue pitching the way he's shown he can this season and Francis will be fine, and Ubaldo has shown signs of GREATNESS but he's a headcase, let's hope he snaps out of it!...but they are lacking a true #1...every other team in the NL West (even the Padres) have absolute studs at the top of their rotations and the Rockies are just kind of par...they need a #1!, I'm tired of hearing about Hampton and Neagel...that was pre-humidor...Coors Field plays like a normal park now, are we ever going to pay the price for a true #1?? most likely no because the Cheapfronts (Monfronts) wont expand the payroll to let it happen. What happened to all the playoff revenue from last year? I know they signed a few extensions but I find it hard to believe with attendance being up this season and with the revenue from last year it should be possible to add another 12 to 14 million on that payroll...call me crazy!

Home › Sports › Sports Columns & Blogs

RINGOLSBY: Fading Rockies could be bold in offseason

By Tracy Ringolsby, Rocky Mountain News

Published September 11, 2008 at 4:38 p.m.

Lineup

Related Links

Related Stories

More Sports Columns & Blogs

Share

Comments

Featured

Columns & Blogs

Latest Rockies 24/7 posts

Latest Rockies videos

Think you're a baseball expert?