Finger-pointing over handling of illegal immigrant in fatal crash

By Judi Villa, Rocky Mountain News

Published September 9, 2008 at 11:58 a.m.
Updated September 10, 2008 at 2:22 p.m.

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Photo by Javier Manzano © The Rocky

Family and friends gather at the funeral services for 3-year-old Marten Kudlis. Francis Hernandez, the driver of the vehicle has never had a license in his life, Aurora police Lt. John Sopranuk said.

Photo by Chris Schneider © The Rocky

Alberto Riveros walks in front of a makeshift memorial of stuffed animals, candles and messages today at the Baskin-Robbins store near East Mississippi Avenue and South Havana Street. Three people were killed after a collision there last week.

More Local News

Comments

September 9, 2008

12:08 p.m.

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esarem writes:

The "system" is BS. It didn't fail. It works just like they want it to. I'm sure they regret the collateral damage but the "master plan" continues.
September 9, 2008

12:17 p.m.

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samsmargolis writes:

"This is something we clearly have to fix," Ritter said. "This is a problem."

Apparently agricultural trespass for illegals committing felonies wasn't a problem back-in-the-day, though - right Bill?
September 9, 2008

12:17 p.m.

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T1anda writes:

Ritter fails everyday when it concerns illegals!! Lame excuse Ritter!!
September 9, 2008

12:18 p.m.

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Radar writes:

BS system, just some lazy paper pusher that did not want to do his/her job and fill out the paper work.
September 9, 2008

12:19 p.m.

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reddog writes:

Fix my A$$, notice no politician wants to deal with this problem in any way, they may lose a few precious votes.
September 9, 2008

12:21 p.m.

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rickg19611 writes:

Ritter allowed illegal aliens to plea bargain down their felonies, which resulted in them being able to escape deportation.

And then the scumbag prosecuted law enforcement officers who revealed that fact to the public.

And now the scumbag has the nerve to whine about the "system"?

The scumbag and every idiot who voted for the scumbag should be deported along with they beloved illegal aliens.

The country, state, and communities would be a much better place the minute Ritter, his idiot supporters, and their illegal aliens depart.
September 9, 2008

12:31 p.m.

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RBN writes:

It seems like it fails more then it works. If you get arrested 16 times you should be in jail. Legal or illegal.
September 9, 2008

12:31 p.m.

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opinionatedcolo writes:

Quick quiz rickg, what agency prosecuted the ICE agent for revealing information? Denver DA, State Attorney General or U.S. Department of Justice admittedly packed with card carrying Republicans? If you guessed C, you are right.

Ritter had nothing to do with this guy, but your obsessive hate for him leads you to post your moronic rants on every story. Really dude, get some meds.
September 9, 2008

12:32 p.m.

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Mayor_Quimby writes:

Ritter should stand on trial for this crime. Anything this moron Hernandez gets, Ritter should get the same. Esarem is correct. This is just collateral damage to him and "will go away" in a few weeks. Then, its business as usual for this idiot. Impeach him!
September 9, 2008

12:35 p.m.

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gary writes:

Ritter "the system failed"..HA he is the system and he is failing.

Why does illegal migration hit the top issue for Colorado?Â Recent estimates show 500,000 illegal aliens residing in Colorado.Â They bankrupt us with education costs at $564.1 million annually, $38.4 million for medical costs and $20 million for prison costsâ€”year in and year out.Â All told with free breakfasts, lunches, ************, lost taxes from illegals working under the table, unemployment for Coloradans without jobs because of Mexicansâ€”illegal immigration costs Colorado taxpayers $1 billion annually.Â That doesnâ€™t include the tragedies to Coloradans from drunken driving deaths, rapes and murders via illegals.
What does that have to do with Governor Ritter?Â
While other governors enforce their laws against illegals in Georgia,Oklahoma and Arizonaâ€”Governor Ritter sits in his big, fat leather chair at the capitol daily without enforcing H.B. 1023.Â

Nuff Said!
September 9, 2008

12:36 p.m.

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LiverDude writes:

Even if you take ICE and deportation out of the equation this scumbag has been arrested 15 times previously and remained on the street. The failure was not due to ICE, but a failed criminal justice system.
September 9, 2008

12:37 p.m.

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coarizona writes:

Time for a recall for Ritter and Mayor Hick. They both have failed the taxpayers rights and protection of our citizens. How many more times do we have to read stories like this? Perhaps, a lawsuit would force them to react and follow the illegal immigration laws.
September 9, 2008

12:42 p.m.

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justme1977 writes:

What I want to know is are they going to prosecute this guy for killing 3 people or is ICE going to deport this clown so he can sneak back and destroy more pepoles lives? As a taxpayer I personally don't want to pay for him to be housed in a prison for the rest of his life but he certainly does not deserve to be set free & deported to Guatemala or Mexico or where ever he is from.
September 9, 2008

12:45 p.m.

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arby writes:

rickg19611

A question. What country do you deport an American citizen to?

Go wash the foam off the corners of your mouth.
September 9, 2008

12:48 p.m.

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666 writes:

I am morbidly fascinated with the way that Republicans use horrific tragedy to make political gains and increase their influence. Whether it's innocent bystanders killed by an illegal immigrant or the 2,700-odd people that died in the WTC, you can count on the right wing to build their political platforms over the graves of unfortunate innocents.
September 9, 2008

1 p.m.

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davies writes:

You probably want to vote McCain if this issue is a priority for you.
September 9, 2008

1:02 p.m.

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gary writes:

666

Yep, folks according to 666 all of your dead families and kin, are "unfortunate innocents". That clears up the matter.

Wait...they all must have been killed by unfortunate people that
"the system failed".

Nuff Said!
September 9, 2008

1:05 p.m.

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paperboy writes:

My friends, what this case exposes is the little acknowledged but rather obvious fact that when it comes to "serve and protect," most police departments are fundamentally incompetent.

The police prevent very few crimes by means of incisive investigative police work; that sort of competence is reserved for television programs, including the quasi-documentaries that spin real cases in favor of the police, crime labs and courts. No doubt visible police presence prevents much crime, but this is accomplished with a passive display of the symbols of power.

So what do the cops really do? They clean up and make excuses and point fingers after the crime has been committed. Cases where the police actually prevent some terrible crime are in fact so rare that they are typically given front page treatment in the media.

I'm not sure it gets any better without insituting cures that are worse than the disease. Better educated and higher paid and more competent police sounds like a good idea, but they already have far too much power.

What I'm saying here is that all of this post-tragedy hand-wringing and finger-pointing denies the reality that the cops just aren't geared up to to prevent crimes in the first place. You may want to try to change this, but I'd give it some more thought before taking action that that might cause more harm.

Of course this guy should have been in jail or deported, and the authorities are holding the blame for this. What I'm saying is that this case is not unusual or in conflict with business as usual in our criminal justice bureaucracy. That is the real story here.
September 9, 2008

1:06 p.m.

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Campbell writes:

The comments on this article are right on. Ritter is an incredible hypocrite. Hernandez would have been one of his favorite customers he would have gotten off on agricultural trespass while he was DA. Cory Voorhis blew the whistle on Ritter getting illegals off so they would not have to face deportation and Ritter went after Voorhis and his family. Talk about being two faced. Ritter's the one that should be deported.
September 9, 2008

1:07 p.m.

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Cowboy63 writes:

It is ALWAYS another agency's problem. What a convenient excuse, so now... "ICE is understaffed". Grow a spine Ritter and tell us what YOU are going to do about it. If ICE isn't going to get it done, what are you as head of the State going to do? Are you going to be eternally hamstrung because "ICE is understaffed"?

Not ONE politician has lost his job over this yet. It is an ongoing game of pushing the issues down the line for the next guy. Once these issues start happening in Cherry Hills Village - THEN you'll see some action!
September 9, 2008

1:16 p.m.

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Cowboy63 writes:

arby writes: "What country do you deport an American citizen to?"

One like this punk?..

Hell. After an abrupt snap of a hemp rope.

(arby - this guy ain't no citizen)
September 9, 2008

1:20 p.m.

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Citizen21 writes:

666:

For those who want to make this a partisan issue, Obama is soft on crime.

Obama voted against one measure in 2006 that would have denied citizenship or other legal status to illegal immigrants.

<b>And he voted against another last year (2007) that would have allowed police to question individuals about their immigration status if the officers had probable cause to believe that the person was not lawfully present in the United States.<b>

Illinois legislative records shows Obama was the only member of the state Senate to vote against a bill to prohibit the early release of convicted criminal sexual abusers; was among only four who voted against bills to toughen criminal sentences and to increase penalties for "gangbangers" and dealers of Ecstasy; and voted "present" on a bill making it harder for abusive parents to regain custody of their children.

Obama's refused in 2001, while a state senator, to support extending the death penalty in Illinois for murders connected to gang activity. Obama voted against it because he said it unfairly targeted minorities and the poor.

In fact, the only crime legislation that Obama has been a consistent and strong supporter of is hate-crime legislation.
Reduce Crime Recidivism by Providing Ex-Offender Supports: Obama will work to ensure that ex-offenders have access to job training, substance abuse and mental health counseling, and employment op-portunities. Obama will also create a prison-to-work incentive program and reduce barriers to employment. Source: Campaign booklet, "Blueprint for Change", p. 42 Feb 2, 2008
September 9, 2008

1:21 p.m.

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Cwillyrun1 writes:

Thanks for stating what was already so obvious to the rest of us Ritter. You're late to the game there........ now tell us what you plan on doing about it. That's what you were voted in for, right? To lead and not to follow.......

Ritter = failure
September 9, 2008

1:24 p.m.

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Fred1 writes:

Ritter will be out soon........it is your privilage as a citizen to vote how you feel.
September 9, 2008

1:26 p.m.

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Cwillyrun1 writes:

paperboy, I really think that motto means: "To 'serve' as many drivers as possible with a ticket and to 'protect' the criminal".
September 9, 2008

1:27 p.m.

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whatsupjay writes:

We're anxiously awaiting a column by Tina G. defending Senor Hernandez, and explaining why we should feel sorry for HIM, the poor Hispanic guy. Don't you people get it? HE'S the victim in all of this, not the young kid (son of legal immigrants) killed in the ice cream store, or the two white American women in that truck..
September 9, 2008

1:36 p.m.

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enginerd writes:

Ritter is the typical worthless politician, blamely "the system" rather than the people who make up the system. Ritter was and is the system. He abused it by plea-bargaining felonies to agricultural trespassing. It was his campaign that went after the man who blew the whistle on him. There is no excuse for anybody with 15 arrests being out on the street, whether they are here legally or not. It is people like ex-DA Bill Ritter that allowed this felon and others like him to walk, rather than doing their jobs and putting them away to protect the good people of the community.

We need a good "three strikes and you're out" law, and prosecutors who are willing to back it up.
September 9, 2008

1:39 p.m.

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SanctuaryCity writes:

TAX CRITTER, AMNESTY KEN & SANCTUARY HICKLOPER HAS FAILED THE STATE AND CITY..

WE DON'T NEED MORE OF THE SAME
September 9, 2008

1:47 p.m.

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RockyMtnMac writes:

Ritter:
THERE
IS
NO
SYSTEM!
YOU run this state. The BUCK STOPS with YOU!
September 9, 2008

1:52 p.m.

Suggest removal

HopiMedicineMan writes:

Ritter: Worst governor in my lifetime.

Beauprez: Worst campaigner in my lifetime, but he had a special plan for illegals, not unlike Joe Arpaio's.
September 9, 2008

1:53 p.m.

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ldestampin writes:

Oh please please let's not hurt Governor Ritter's feelings with all this hate speech. We all know what a great man he is. Don't we???? Why just ask all the people he gave Ag. Trespassing to for all their crimes....HE IS A GREAT MAN. I say Ritter for LEADER OF THE UNIVERSE. HE IS THE GREATEST. Who wants to make up the signs. We'll put one on everybody's lawn.

Now seriously....why is he the governor of this state? We are better than that aren't we?
September 9, 2008

1:55 p.m.

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paperboy writes:

Intrepid writes, "The reason so many latin american governments are corrupt is due to their cultural ties to Spanish culture, and colonialism, in general."

Wow Intrepid! The nuance and subtlety of your observation reminds me of the way the Jews contaminated the Aryan Europeans, African Americans were not sufficiently human to share facilities with whites, Irish Americans, Jews, and at various times all other ethnic immigrants, were a threat to our health and morals.

It's good to know people like you are standing up for the traditional values upon which our nation was founded!

Atta boy, Intrepid! What we need in this country is more law and order. Let's bring back lynching, only this time we will only target those Latino's who have been corrupted by the Spanish. Brilliant!!!
September 9, 2008

1:57 p.m.

Suggest removal

hoopoe36 writes:

So here's a question. I was down at the anti-war demo at the DNC and there were hundreds of cops and special vehicles on hand to intimidate peaceful protesters attempting to exercise free speech. The Ritter and Hickenlooper administrations had no problem in putting on a police-state show of force to protect presumably liberal DNC attendees from free speech by peaceful protesters. Why can't these same sleazoids enforce actual laws against tens or hundreds of thousands of illegals in their jurisdiction?

The answer is what Ed Abbey said over 20 years ago. The Democrats love their cheap cause and the Republicans love their cheap labor. As long as illegal labor keeps down wages for the working poor in this state and thereby keeps our lawn care, home construction and hamburgers cheap, businesses will support non-enforcement of immigration law. And those same businesses will contribute to politacal campaigns and fight or ignore immigration law on the books. As for liberals, they are beneath contempt in there obsession with identity politics and inability to appreciate the economic, worker's rights, environmental, health care and ultimately, quality of life impacts caused by perpetual immigration into a country growing more overcrowded every year. Except for Native Americans, we're all descended from immigrants, granted. However, tradition is not binding and no one wants to see this country as crowded as India, or do they? The US is the only developed country still robustly adding population and the net growth is entirely due to immigration. When is enough enough?
We traditionally had slaves and didn't allow women to vote but I don't hear pro-illegal advocates sayiing those 'traditions' should be continued or reinstated.

And why is the US still the only developed country in the world to permit automatic citizenship to any baby dropped within national boundaries. No EU country allows this. Hell, when my pregnant wife passed through Singapore years ago in her 8th month of pregnancy she had to sign a waiver of citizenship rights should the baby be born while she was in Singapore. The inability of a nation to control its own borders and grant residence to those it chooses is a fundamental violaton of sovereignty. Our problem is due to a wilful misreading of the 14th amendent to the Constitution which granted citizenship to all born in this country in order to enfranchise slaves born in the US and emancipated after birth. They had no legal status as citizens if they had been born before emancipation. The amendment had no intent to grant automatic citizenship to children of illegal immigrants.
September 9, 2008

1:59 p.m.

Suggest removal

Cowboy63 writes:

C'mon Ritter! Start using those executive powers for something more than getting a good table at "The Palm".

Start direct deporting from Colorado and use some executive emergency powers to cutoff the tidalwave of lawsuits that would immediately follow.

You are the #1 elected official in the State! Pull up your boots, grab your "package" and start acting like it! The LEGAL citizens of Colorado would be behind you!
September 9, 2008

2:10 p.m.

Suggest removal

wyhammertime writes:

Ten to one the ol Gov. will do something else to draw everybody off of this subject so then he can back burner this issue just wait it should happen soon !!!!!
September 9, 2008

2:14 p.m.

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paperboy writes:

Hoopoe, I think your opinions are fairly well founded, but I'm not sure immigration, legal or otherwise, is as big a problem as the play it gets. I think we're stuck with it and the goal should be to make it work. Twelve years of a Republican Congress did more to keep wages down than any immigrant factor.

Your complaint about the 14th Amendment suggests an unworkable alternative for a nation of immigrants. If place of birth is not the line of citizenship, then where should the line be placed? This leads to a slippery slope of racist discrimination. It's why we have a Constitution, to provide guidance in handling issues that don't have clear, non-offensive solutions.
September 9, 2008

2:28 p.m.

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hoopoe36 writes:

Why is my comment about the 14th amendment unworkable? It works for the EU, Japan, China, Canada, just about every large and/or developed nation on earth. Or is this just more American exceptionalism? We're different, we're number one!

We have great diversity and non-discrimination in our legal immigration syste. Witness the large numbers of Chinese, Indians, Pakistanis, Somalis, etc. in our midst. Banning illegals won't change that. In fact, when illegal immigration changes the basic ethnic makeup of a nation in a few short decades, impacting the nation's basic values, then it could be argued that's more discriminatory to the citizens and legal immigrants of the nation. Because we're getting a change we didn't ask for. Your argument is one more variant of 'It happened this way in the past so it won't change and shouldn't change.' Seriously, do you want 400 million or more people in this country? And every new immigrant who aspires to the American standard of living impacts the environment to the tune of 1-30 times as much as the impact in their country of origin, if they came from an undeveloped country. Do we Americans have no right to determine the ultimate population of our country and thus, no right to determine our level of crowding and quality of life? Do American workers have to be subjected to the importation of yet another wave of indentured labor to be exploited by businessman, used to hold down wages for working class Americans (many of them minorities imported in previous waves of cheap labor)? Buying into the free immigration model is to buy into a national myth based on lies rather than hard facts. Immigration has always been used to expand business, extend empire and enrich the upper class. It's was always dressed up in inspiring rhetoric though.

The Republican congress of 1994-1996 did not suppress labor wages. Unless you think wages at the bottom are set by congressional fiat in the form of minimum wages. The minimum wage is a sop to guilty consciences to ensure people don't march in the streets and end up discomfiting business and politicians. Real wages are set by supply and demand and would be much higher if labor was in shorter supply. Unions can't negotiate in the face of continous labor surplus and scab workers and Taft-Hartley. Real wages would be higher than minimum wage and I'd be happy to pay more for a hamburger to make it so.

We're only stuck with what we don't have the resolve to change.
September 9, 2008

2:50 p.m.

Suggest removal

Quagmate writes:

Legal immigrants are hard working, have no criminal record and often times are here looking to be a contributing memeber of society.

Like it or not, Mexico/Guatemala, etc. is not sending the United States their best or their brightest, instead we are getting people desperate enough to break into this country to begin with.

From point one (coming to the United States undocumented and illegally) they are breaking the law and there is no getting around it. They are ALL criminals to begin the moment they step into the United States, whether they are cleaning your trophy home in Cherry Hills or doing you landscaping in Parker. Criminals. Think about that for a minute.
September 9, 2008

2:51 p.m.

Suggest removal

nanbede writes:

Governor Ritter - you need to take COMPLETE responsibilty for this unfortunate situation. YOU are the one who plea bargained MANY ILLEGAL ALIENS who comitted violent crimes down to an AGRICULTURAL violation and then they were allowed to stay in the country - you didn't even notify ICE; YOU are the one who decided to look the other way when this man violated the law time after time; YOU are the one who has to bear the burden of 3 lives lost to an illegal alien because, if I read it correctly, YOU were the District Attorney at the time this man was racking up a nice rap sheet on crime, failure to appears, speeding, etc. It's time YOU own up to YOUR bad judgments and come clean instead of pushing it on the system.
September 9, 2008

2:58 p.m.

Suggest removal

cfk writes:

A vote for Obama will result in many more problems like this.....
September 9, 2008

3 p.m.

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hoopoe36 writes:

all of these comments need to be forwarded on to Ritter's and Hick's offices:

http://www.colorado.gov/cs/Satellite/...

http://www.denvergov.org/Mayor/Contac...
September 9, 2008

3:05 p.m.

Suggest removal

timeandagain writes:

MAYOR HICKENLOOPER PLEASE BEGIN ENFORCEMENT OF INITIATIVE 100 (IMPOUND CARS OF UNLICENSED DRIVERS!) IMMEDIATELY! STOP IGNORING THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE!!

THE DENVER VOTERS PASSED IT ON AUGUST 12!! WHERE IS THE ENFORCEMENT MAYOR?? CITY COUNCIL?? DENVER PD??

BY CODE, YOU HAVE 7 DAYS to certify AND begin enforcement!!!!

The most vocal opponents of Initiative 100 were:

Mayor John Hickenlooper - 720-913-1311
Councilman Rick Garcia - 303-458-4792
Councilwoman Judy Montero - 303-458-8960
Councilman Paul Lopez - 303-935-1274

Denver's elected officials MUST ENFORCE THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE!!! Please take a minute to call each of these shills and DEMAND ENFORCEMENT OF INITIATIVE 100!!

WHERE IS THE NEWS COVERAGE OF THE NON-ENFORCEMENT ROCKY and POST??

Denver Post Newsroom - 303-954-1201
Rocky Mtn. News Newsroom - 303-954-5201
September 9, 2008

3:07 p.m.

Suggest removal

trinidad writes:

If ICE would've deported him or any illegal, the "left-wing" would complain that ICE is violating their human rights. I'm sure the families of the deceased appreciate Ritter and organizations like the A.C.L.U. for making sure illegal immigrants,like Mr. Hernandez, get to stay in this country.
September 9, 2008

3:21 p.m.

Suggest removal

youme writes:

IMPEACH RITTER!
IMPEACH RITTER!
IMPEACH RITTER!
IMPEACH RITTER!
IMPEACH RITTER!
IMPEACH RITTER!
IMPEACH RITTER!
IMPEACH RITTER!
IMPEACH RITTER!
IMPEACH RITTER!
IMPEACH RITTER!
IMPEACH RITTER!
IMPEACH RITTER!
IMPEACH RITTER!
IMPEACH RITTER!
IMPEACH RITTER!
IMPEACH RITTER!
IMPEACH RITTER!
IMPEACH RITTER!
IMPEACH RITTER!
September 9, 2008

3:38 p.m.

Suggest removal

PolksGhost writes:

Re: Ritter: System failed in Hernandez case, YOU ARE THE SYSTEM GOVERNOR BILL!!!

I’m tired of hearing Ritter and the rest of these Democrats point the finger of blame at someone else. Of course it is the fault of the Federal Government that Illegal Aliens are allowed to cross into our country but once they enter a Sovereign State it becomes that States problem.

The good Governor will not take responsibility for this or the other Illegals he has made life easier in the City of Denver as a D.A. or the State of Colorado as a Governor.

He says State Democrats passed the toughest Immigration laws in the country, what a joke! I was at the hearings to pass these laws and the Democrats did every thing they could to gut the proposals from then House Rep Dave Schultheis. They shot down real, tough illegal Immigration proposals. Rep. Terrance Carroll was instrumental in this action along with the other 5 legislators.

To see these bills go to:( http://www.sovereigntycolorado.com/ ) click on the Colorado Flag at the left. Compare them to the current laws and you will see the power of the Democrat controlled State Government.

The buck stops with you Governor Bill, until Coloradans are willing to run these scumbags out of office, or quit using the services of people that hire Illegal labor we will have more murders, rapes, robberies, disease, etc.

Watch your back if you are a free person or legal citizen of this country, most States have sold their Sovereignty to the Federal Government and we have seen where that leaves us. Remember, Article 4 section 4 of the U. S. Constitution.
September 9, 2008

3:48 p.m.

Suggest removal

hottopic2999 writes:

He was allowed to go free after all of that? Oh, I know why: he probably just got some agricultural trespass charges from Ritter! Twitter should be tried for his role in this. Then, he should have to share the same jail cell with this worthless greaser.
September 9, 2008

3:50 p.m.

Suggest removal

Scott writes:

PolksGhost sez: "Remember, Article 4 section 4 of the U. S. Constitution."

U.S. Constitution? Oh, that document that the U.S. Alcoholic Pedophiles (congress) and the Supreme Pimps (court) uses as toilet paper! That's what I thought you were talking about.

Remember that the U.S. Civil War terminated States Rights. It's too darn bad that the war that ended the despicable practice of slavery also terminated the U.S. Constitution.

Scott
September 9, 2008

4:10 p.m.

Suggest removal

paperboy writes:

I like to think I am a realist, and certainly I lay little claim to any American exceptionalism, Hoopoe.

To answer your question, the reason is the same as the reason we needed a 14th Amendment to begin with. Despite our diversity, America is and always has been essentially a racist country. If you want to debate this point, waste the electrons on someone who will listen to your fantasies. The history is vivid.

Making your suggestion about citizenship the law would result in all kinds of cases involving subjective judgement that is influenced by public opinion, which, as I have demonstrated, is often fickle or just wrong. Residency, parentage and patriation are frequently far more complicated than your solution allows for. I'm sure you can think of examples. If you cannot, then you aren't really thinking about the problem.

This is why I don't usually offer solutions for these kind of dilemmas. It's much easier and probably ultimately more beneficial to make sure the problems are accurately stated, with all the terms inserted in the equations. We have a sad history of taking stabs at big problems and then acting like they are solved.

None of this is new.
September 9, 2008

4:30 p.m.

Suggest removal

MBR693 writes:

666 writes:

"I am morbidly fascinated with the way that Republicans use horrific tragedy to make political gains and increase their influence."

If by "increasing their influence" you mean that we want an end to the two-tiered justice system, and believe in rule of law, then I guess you could say we are trying to increase our influence.

Feel free to increase your influence by standing for the opposite, if it suits you.
September 9, 2008

4:33 p.m.

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Scott writes:

Because this country is made up of immigrants, heck even the American Indians immigrated from Siberia, I am all for the 14th Amendment. Yes, I know that the illegal aliens will use "anchor babies" to try and stay here. Just because the parent(s) is(are) criminals, DON'T TAKE IT OUT ON THE KID!

I completely reject the view of, "But, but ... Europe does it some other way!" Let the Europeans do whatever they want. We are Americans, hence we will do it our way over here.

As an aside, a former coworker, a naturalized U.S. citizen from Mexico, told me that Mexico also follows the same idea as we do for determining citizenship. If you are born there, then you are a Mexican citizen by birth. Does anyone know how Canada handles citizenship for someone born on their soil?

Scott
September 9, 2008

4:35 p.m.

Suggest removal

redwhiteandBLUE writes:

NICE TRY GOV....TO CYA!!!!!!!!!!!!!
IT'S AN OUTRAGE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
September 9, 2008

4:48 p.m.

Suggest removal

hoopoe36 writes:

paperboy-

"To answer your question, the reason is the same as the reason we needed a 14th Amendment to begin with. Despite our diversity, America is and always has been essentially a racist country. If you want to debate this point, waste the electrons on someone who will listen to your fantasies. The history is vivid."

since we're now stooping to calling names i'll say I think your mental processes are a little deficient. How does denying illegal immigrants the right to anchor babies compare to granting citizenship to former slaves? I guess trying to discuss things rationally with an ill-educated ideologue is a waste of time. So by stating America is essentially a racist country (which I may actually agree with) relieves you of any obligation to consider other points of view or actually do any heavy lifting like thinking?

Not even worthy sophistry. Are you a flunked-out philosophy major?
September 9, 2008

4:55 p.m.

Suggest removal

18Zwife writes:

Mark my words, Hernandez’ alleged anchor baby will be used to benefit his case. You can’t break up the family! You can’t punish the erroneous anchor kid(s) for what the POS illegal alien parents do! Yada. Yada. Yada. As long as, we don’t insult that “Hispanic pride”… by enforcing existing U.S. laws. We certainly wouldn’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings; even at the cost of law abiding citizens lives.
September 9, 2008

5:11 p.m.

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diggtbks writes:

"This is something we clearly have to fix," Ritter said. "This is a problem."

Brilliant!

Ritter and Hick are circling the wagons and pointing fingers. Coloradans need to remember, The Dems in leadership can not keep you and your families safe. Not even at an ice cream parlor.
September 9, 2008

5:19 p.m.

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paperboy writes:

What about my answer, Hoopoe? Do you really want me to embarrass you with an example of the inefficacy of your facile solution to a complex problem?

Name calling? Kinda testy when the facts don't match your opinions, eh Hoopoe?

I'm not, but "flunked out philosophy major" sounds like carping from a guy who is insecure about his own academic achievments. Sorry pal, but I don't have that problem.

Go ahead, ask for examples and then cringe when I expose you for lack of imagination and forethought. I'll say it again, you haven't thought this through in sufficient detail.

I tried to tell you that you were not completely off base, there is a rationale for your points, in general. But on two points, you're just wrong.
September 9, 2008

5:19 p.m.

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SierraStorm writes:

Tax Ritter is to blame as much as any other politician but, who is really to blame? I will say it again and I believe that this is the answer to that question.
Let's ask a question that nobody wants to hear! "Who is to blame for the Baskin Robbins Carnage?"
The answer is a simple one. Ans. All those persons, Americans, either naturalized or native borne; not just the Indians, but every American regardless of color, ethnicity, or origin. All those persons who have felt sorry for the illegal alien coming here to do the work that Americans will not do :-)). All those person's who would not stand on the street in organized protest, all those person's who would not support those who stand on the border {Vigilante's :-)} either monetarily or with a warm body, all those who either will not or did not contact their elected representatives demanding that the existing laws be upheld and enforced, and all those who have said, "well, it doesn't affect me". We the people, the apathetic, indifferent, and uninvolved are the cause or fault. That includes those who have lost a loved one to the deeds of an unnecessary, unwanted illegal alien. Those people, probably including the ones who have lost loved ones at Baskin Robbins were not bothered by the illegal immigration issue until it has slapped them in the face.

That is how this vigilante See's it.

Citizen 21 posting on a previous article is correct in saying that it is not a Republican or Democrat issue of one or the other being at fault, it is not about race bashing; it is about sanity and the preservation of our national sovereignty.

Enough preaching to the choir. Contact your representatives with a little anger and disinchanment attached. To be silent is to be accepting.
September 9, 2008

5:44 p.m.

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hoopoe36 writes:

Ha! paperboy, gotta love your SAT vocabulary. color me impressed. so now you're done calling names. taking the high road but still not making sense.

you didn't offer any facts. in fact, not even an opinion. all you did was say i was wrong. no ideas of your own. just name calling; me, the country, others who would listen to me.

your missives sound like they were created by a random word generator!
September 9, 2008

6:05 p.m.

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Aaron writes:

"Ritter said Tuesday that Colorado has some of the toughest immigration laws in the country, including a law that bans illegal immigrants from obtaining any public assistance."

Horse-doo-doo.
September 9, 2008

6:20 p.m.

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paperboy writes:

In his retrospective on civil liberties in wartime, former Chief Justice Rhenquist, commenting on the three famous Japanese internment cases from WWII, identifies the big fly in the legal ointment is the failure of the Court to differentiate between Issei and Nisei, Japanese citizens who emigrated and those born here, respectively. The significant point here, Hoopoe, is the legal distinction of citizenship based on birth, a distinction the Korematsu Court neglected to make that resulted in one of the most odious, racist periods in our history. But this is abstract, historical and irrelevant, right?

Yes, except countries wage wars, people move between countries, die without warning, get divorced, challenge paternity and custody and a whole host of convoluted and unavoidable human activities, and these situations, as I have been saying, under your suggestion for the 14th Amendment, will needlessly place people's lives and futures in the hands of the bureaucracy, which, as I also said, tends not to give a damn about people's rights or lives. You may not like the citizenship clause in the 14th Amendment, but you shouldn't be calling to abolish it without carefully considering the impact. When it is possible to identify a bright line distinction in the law, it is usually preferable to do so.

Remember Elian Gonzalez? A great example of things not being as simple as you'd like them.

Sorry if my prose intimidates you. Please quit b!^@#ing about it.
September 9, 2008

6:48 p.m.

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hoopoe36 writes:

paperboy. your prose intimidates no one. it's sophomoric and verbose. and regarding my education, i have a master's in science and write peer-reviewed articles. so neither your prose nor your garbled thought processes intimidate me or impress me. So stop the name-calling and stick to facts.

citizenship in most countries is based on Jus Sanguinis. US citizenship is based on Jus Soli. Look it up. It's not racist, just a matter of tradition practiced by different countries in different parts of the world. Most developed countries citizenship requirements are based on Jus Sanguinis. Most new world countries use Jus Soli. That's because colonies and empires needed populating, not because of some attachement to high-flying sentiment. We need to amend our Jus Soli laws to prevent abuse; the UK, Australia, Ireland, France, Germany and New Zealand have altered their laws in this regard in the last 20 years.

You're forgetting the Issei-Nissei distinction is a non-issue here since we're discussing illegal immigration and anchor babies. The Issei-Nissei were all legal immigrants. Please note. And it's not abstract, historical or irrelevant. You're just ignorant.

Amending the 14th Amendment only puts illegal immigrants lives in the hands of bureaucracy, which is where they should be since they've committed a crime in entering the country. Amending the 14th will have no impact on legal immigrants.

Sorry, I don't really remember the facts of the Gonzalez case; I was living in Indonesia at the time. Refresh me.

Are you willfully obstuse and combative or just really mentally unorganized?
September 9, 2008

6:49 p.m.

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paperboy writes:

Also, I'm not sure somebody just passing through can pop one out at DIA and claim citizenship. Bet it isn't that simple. Do you know?
September 9, 2008

7:15 p.m.

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paperboy writes:

Gosh Hoopoe, you should have told me about your degrees before this. Perhaps I would have known better than to challenge your judgment. Am I supposed to whip out my degrees and compare their size with yours?

Also, are you a Republican? The reason I ask is because you keep attacking me personally, calling me names (verbose and sophomoric, etc.) and justify it by claiming I am doing the name calling, something I have not yet done. This is classic conservative debate mode, drawn right out of Orwell. Doublethink, he called it.

But you know Hoopoe, I just can't stand the idea of you being maligned for not really lying, but rather just saying how you feel when I destroy your pedantic little attacks with annoying facts, so I am going to make an honest man out of you. You are an intellectual coward who will use any kind of personal attack you can think of to provide the illusion that you know what you are talking about, which, of course, you do not. I gave you a solid, fact based analysis of the issue and you started trying to destroy my credibility. You can do better than this, can't you? You can change, but only if you really want to. Am I being mean now? Must be the liberal in me...

Up till now, you have done all the name calling. I don't need to because I have a better (real) argument.

I also have a rule about not arguing with fools, so you get the last word.
September 9, 2008

7:21 p.m.

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Hola writes:

The system failed. Right. Ritter, your running the 'system'. Do your job if you want to keep illegal aliens from running over and murdering Colorado citizens.
September 9, 2008

7:32 p.m.

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paperboy writes:

It's a colloquialism that means "good job," but if you think atta-boy is calling you "boy," that's ok too. And who said culture was not relevant? Certainly not me.

Of course I'm afraid. Aren't we all told every day by the Republicans to be afraid? Who am I to argue...
September 9, 2008

7:39 p.m.

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Sixtysixdeuce writes:

"In order to solve this problem as best we can, we must fight it at the source! It will take many years, if ever, for many latin american countries to develope stable, prosperous economies. Furthermore, Latin america needs to take steps to control high birth rates. Over population is THE major cause for high unemployment, crime and poverty. And as a result, many emigrate. The second major cause is unstable and corrupt governments. The reason so many latin american governments are corrupt is due to their cultural ties to Spanish culture, and colonialism, in general. Spain didn't become a democracy until the late 70's."

Not our problem. Besides, every time we try to push our ideals and our system of government on a 3rd world nation, we end up fighting another war.

"However, pretty much every Latin American Country from Mexico to Chile is eager to recieve foreign investment from the United States. The more American companies invest in them, the faster the process becomes. Everybody wins."

Economics 101; send the jobs out of the country, the economy of that country goes to pot. Why do you think we're in the situation we have here today? Your pocket book is thinner now because the guy who used to buy whatever product or service you sell lost his job when his company outsourced to China, India, Korea, etc. You think Ford Motor Company, Diamler-Chrysler and GM having a substantial number of their vehicles made in Mexico has helped anyone here more than having those vehicles manufactured state-side would have? Only company executives and big-time stockholders benefit from outsourcing. The consumer benefits temporarily from the cheaper product, but in the end outsourcing leads to reduced income for the average American nationwide in darn near every career field. There is money being paid to companies all over the world to manufacture goods for, and provide services to, the American public; That money is NOT coming back.

If we want to fix this country, we need to secure our borders and bring the jobs back home. Unfortunately, the only politicians who are bold enough to do anything about this are labeled as radicals and dismissed by most of the public as such.
September 9, 2008

7:48 p.m.

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paperboy writes:

AAGHHHH! Exposed by the intrepid Intrepid. Curses.
September 9, 2008

8:06 p.m.

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anya writes:

There's a system? I thought it was all based on someone's whim.
September 9, 2008

8:36 p.m.

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carbon05 writes:

Boy am I glad the Bill Ritter cleared up any confusion about illegal aliens in Colorado. Here all those years while he was handing out get out of jail free cards to child molesters and drug dealers, he was actually being tough on these guys. But he did teach Corey Voorheis a lesson not to screw with the system. But hey keep voting Dems like Ritter and the Looper and we will have a few more dead cops and dead citizens on the street. Thats ok they can just continue to blame it on ICE. Thanks Bill there is blood on your hands whether you know it or not.
September 9, 2008

8:38 p.m.

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Sixtysixdeuce writes:

"Thats funny! I guess illegal immigration isn't our problem either! Wait........"

So long as it's not in our country. I don't care if Mexicans, Guatemalans, Hondurans, Panamanians, or any other variety of latinos jump each other's borders.

But cross into the U.S. illegally, I will despise you and I will campaign for your removal.

Frankly, I think we need a much more decisive solution to our illegal immigration problem. I say when an illegal is caught here, they are branded on the forehead and sent back home. Anyone found in the U.S. with said brand is considered fair game by any and all U.S. citizens without fear of prosecution. I bet a solution like that would make the illegals here the most law abiding folks in the country. And the ones who were deported would stay gone.
September 9, 2008

8:50 p.m.

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BacklashSchitzka writes:

ICE agency employees could care less. They are there to collect a paycheck. When United States citizens do their jobs for them, and report illegal aliens doing illegal activities, they look the other way for fear of having to do a day's work.

I reported the activities of a woman from Hong Kong who was bringing in gangsters (drugs, gambling, prostitution) from Beijing. I did so in writing and submitted it twice. I was ignored and she is still bringing in these illegals at about three-to-four men a year.
September 9, 2008

9:42 p.m.

BacklashSchitzka writes:

(This comment was removed by the site staff.)
September 9, 2008

10:59 p.m.

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555 writes:

what about the yellow cab driver that got kill 09/06/08
he was 33 years old.left behind two kids and their mom.
September 9, 2008

11:40 p.m.

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Videobarbs writes:

Every time something like this happens, the old pass the buck excuses surface and/or the blame game begins among our public servants.
These are the people who are supposed to be serving the greater good of our society and little boys eating ice cream. A society is only as strong as its weakest link!
No real leader with any backbone lamely states "The system failed". That's bunk! "Don't blame me" say our leaders, blame
the System (as if it's a living, breathing entity we should go after).
The laws are in place and only lack of inforcement and resolve
by our public servants and citizens banding together a demanding
enforcement.
We need strong local, state and lastly federal illegal immigration policy.
While we legal citizens are treated like terrorists and law-breakers by the TSA at airports across the nation, our borders remain,seven years after 9-11, unsecured and open to anyone to come in to our nation.
September 9, 2008

11:51 p.m.

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jamesdenver writes:

BacklashSchitzka: Good christ I hope you don't have kids, nor do I want you around me or mine. (Spoken from a caucasion)
September 10, 2008

12:01 a.m.

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paperboy writes:

ssqured writes: "One need not make 'claim' to U.S. Citizenship if one is born on American soil. Just passing through DIA or not, that person becomes an American Citizen by virtue of the fact of their birth on American soil."

So you say, and perhaps you're right, but it's counter-intuitive for practical reasons. For example, Dr. Yang and his wife Dr. Yin are from a country that does not permit dual citizenship, and does not allow non-citizens to reside in their country. The good doctors are in Chicago for a conference on what makes Americans so arrogant when Dr. Yang gives birth to baby Dee Lim It.

According to your statement, Drs. Yin and Yang have an American baby, have no choice in the matter, and consequently can't take baby Dee home because of their strict residency laws.

Maybe this is true. If it is, you should have a reference to a statute or regulation or case law that supports it. The example I gave will have happened if what you say is true.
September 10, 2008

12:57 a.m.

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bobthebigfatbovine writes:

One thing that I would like to mention is that this guy was driving with a revoked license. Regardless whether he is illegal or not, the law enforcement didn't do their jobs of keeping this guy off of the road and with as many crimes he has done, he shouldn't even be on the streets at the time. This incident shouldn't turn into illegal aliens; it should be about people who are still on the streets when they have proven many times that they can not follow local laws, let alone national laws.
September 10, 2008

5:34 a.m.

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STOPUSAGiveaway writes:

Gov Ritter: Y O U are the system and there isn't a religion on this planet that doesn't believe that Y O U will get what you have done unto others.....
September 10, 2008

6:07 a.m.

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LOUIE writes:

Many people in power fail us, but none so much as the media, See, when mayors have police bodygaurds coming up stabbed and losing thier guns, the media reports it lightly but doesn't pursue it. When a charter school principle converts half a million dollars to private use, and no media pursuit is done to say if charges are brought or the outcome of this criminal act, the media doesn't pursue it. Used to be a time you could trust the media to be a champion of the people, and put the politicians under the microscope, not anymore. Thus mayors, governors and other politicians are acually in bed with the politicians; the media wants access to them, they need to shut thier mouths and do as thier told. Otherwise, no interviews or access will be granted by the politician. Nobody had /has more power over the media in muzzling them than mayor Webb and his wife. Thier power was recently seen with the Montbello charter school principle not being reported and investigated by the media for stealing 500,000 dollars of public money and starting thier own daycare. What was the deal, are there going to be criminal charges, whats the outcome of those charges, why weren't they filed? So why doesn't the media pursue these people, or treat stories like this with more indepth reporting on the politicians that set these situations up? There in bed together, one scratches the others back, One is to concerned with access to power being available that they are scared to stand up and shed light on the issues the people have. Instead they rely on sensationalism of the moment of the incident, then they let it peacefully go away. Corporations have taken over the papers, gone is the once proud champion of the people. It has been replaced with a powerful media conglomerate that doesn't want to rock the boat by keeping the politicians, of whom they have become reliant upon, honest to the people. Why not pursue Mr. Ritters plea bargains, all of them as they relate to illegals? Why must they sensationalize only after a whistle blower snitches, and then let it die? It's because the media and the politician have become wonderfully intangled in a loving reciprocal relationship. The media will report sensationalism of the moment, then immediately drop it off the radar so as not to offend the politicians they rely on. Maybe it's time the media returns to being the champion of the people, and pursue indepth investigations of these politicians once it surfaces something is not right. Just a thought I was listening to last night in a interview with none other than Gary Hart. Don't like Gary Hart, but it makes a lot of sense when I started thinking about it! Maybe it's the media we need to hold accoutable, we already know the politician's a snake oil salesman.
September 10, 2008

7:22 a.m.

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gary writes:

bobthebigfatbovine writes:

This incident shouldn't turn into illegal aliens; it should be about people who are still on the streets when they have proven many times that they can not follow local laws, let alone national laws.

Yes, it is about illegal aliens...why...because the sancutuary..cities, and state..allows illegals to go free..no matter what they do. Go ahead Bob, you go out and do what this guy did. See how long you are allowed to roam free to continue abusing the law. Try it, then report back to us...OK?

Nuff Said!
September 10, 2008

7:45 a.m.

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LOUIE writes:

You know Gary your right, Americans have to not only pay for thier crimes as you mentioned; but in many instances are also having to pay for the illegals even if they commit no crime and abide by the law. Education, healthcare, and if they hit you without a driver's licence and no insurance as they often do, you really pay directly. Hinkenlooper, the city council, the governor, they are all the major reason we as citizens and residents pay for thier failure to enforce the law. I fully expect to see more draconian laws shoved down thier throats with manditory actions required by law, since they refuse to enforce the ones on the books. Now they all play the blame game, not one is going to say the buck stops here, and things are going to change starting today with the death of this child and two others. No, that would require a politician to be responsible, when has that ever happened? Soon the media will let it die and take them off the hook, and it will be business as usual, in the sanctuary city and state. Sad isn't it, we have to pass more restrictive laws just to get the politicians to act on behalf of the people. Just like the recent law in Denver approved by voters over the city council and mayors objections, it's going to happen if they keep refusing to stand up for the people who put them there. What's the name of the one councilman/woman who was in favor of the new law over the objections of the rest of the council members? We need to not omly commend her/him and keep her/him in office for sticking up for the people, we need to hold the others accountable for this sanctuary city in the next election!
September 10, 2008

8:18 a.m.

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wyhammertime writes:

Word of advice Ritter call the bank you might be putting your house up for morgage again !!! also Hick o looper ya might check into it also !!!!
September 10, 2008

8:29 a.m.

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Mtnsjohn writes:

Colorado passed what was then some of the strictest laws addressing illegal immigration in 2006 under a Republican governor. Shortly thereafter a Democrat governor assumed office bringing his philosophy of law enforcement with him.

"Guest worker, amnesty, doing jobs Americans don't want," was his mantra. He wholly bought the Democratic party line assuming and anticipating the illegals of today will be the voters of tomorrow.

Except for some highly visible troopers trained to detect illegals and their efforts, it appears that Ritter has swept the need for vigorous enforcement of other laws under his executive carpet.

Are illegals still getting state benefits?....no doubt. Have employers who openly hire illegals been investigated and fined? According to Ritter, "Not yet", claiming the laws are relatively new. These laws have been effective 21 months. Ritter wants to appear employer friendly

Ritter is violating the oath he swore to and cannot be trusted to take another one.
September 10, 2008

8:41 a.m.

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davies writes:

Ritter is trying to cover his political kiester here and blame ICE and the federal government. It is transparently hypocritical on his part, since he was and is part of The System. But unfortunately it is true that unless there is a switch to bona fide enforcement of immigration laws by the federal government, little is going to change.

We need a national ID card, and we need real consequences for those who are here that do not have one.
September 10, 2008

8:50 a.m.

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mark79trans writes:

RickyLee writes:

What a worthless hypocrite!!!!

Funny he doesn't mention the ILLEGAL-ALIEN-HEROIN-DEALER
that he (critter) let walk on "agricultural tresspass" to go to California and rape a young girl.

Nice job, guv. Do you really think we're all that stupid?

----------

His record on plea bargains for illegals was the first thing I thought of when I heard this story. His comments are pretty ridiculous given his record. Oh well, I guess we are stuck with this yahoo for another two years...maybe six.
September 10, 2008

8:53 a.m.

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12cal53 writes:

I got the easiest answer, “Put a wall around the whole United States”. We have Chinese illegal’s coming on sea containers from the west cost, terrorists with PROPER INS documentation coming in on the northern border, Jamaican drug users, Russian mob, Serbian and Cuban refugees’on the east coast. And of course the southern border with those pesty Mexican’s. We need a very big wall.
September 10, 2008

9:05 a.m.

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Heidi writes:

"When he was arrested in Aurora in April, he had a recent pay stub on him, and officers noted that he spoke English."

Who was his employer???????????
September 10, 2008

9:11 a.m.

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fiesty writes:

ssqured - hear, hear! Sheriff Joe has been my hero ever since I heard about him a few years ago. If it's good enough for our troops, why not convicts?? If we had more prison camps like this, more would think twice before committing a crime. We could also set up camps like these in the interim for illegal immigrants awaiting deportation.
September 10, 2008

9:17 a.m.

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Heidi writes:

Go Sheriff Joe! Go Sheriff Joe!!!
September 10, 2008

9:18 a.m.

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patchsl writes:

Enough is enough - please vote your conscience, but if you are as outraged as I am, please let your elected representatives know that you will not vote to give them another penny until they use current taxes to enforce existing laws, and that you will hold them accountable in the next election based on their resolution of this latest affront to our community. We need a governor and mayor that will step up, not run for cover.
September 10, 2008

9:25 a.m.

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happymike44 writes:

Why not punish these scumbags and deport them and the rotten family that support them.
I am sick of illegals laughing at our criminal justice system.
Why because we just let them murder us and there is no justice for the victims.
Why not start deportig them and remind these people whose country they are a guest in.
Did you know Mexico will not allow United States citizens to work in their country.
So what is good for the goose is good for the gander.
So lets return the favor no work for the illegals and no medical and no food stamps.
If we cannot take care of our own citizens why take care of someone else's undisireables.
If we stopped giving everyone who came here welfare and food stamps.
Then these cockroaches would stop coming here and feeding off the back of the Americn Taxpayer.
All I have to say is it is time to take out the trash and leave it at the curb that dumped it on us.
Close our borders and stop this crap from happening here.
September 10, 2008

9:55 a.m.

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Sixtysixdeuce writes:

"You know Gary your right, Americans have to not only pay for thier crimes as you mentioned; but in many instances are also having to pay for the illegals even if they commit no crime and abide by the law"

News flash: There is no such thing as an ILLEGAL alien who hasn't committed a crime. By their very presence in this country, they are criminals.

Law abiding illegal alien is an oxymoron.
September 10, 2008

10:22 a.m.

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FCZ writes:

“This is not the first time that Gov. (Bill) Ritter’s policies toward illegal immigration seem to have jeopardized public safety.

As district attorney, his plea bargaining put illegal immigrants back onto our streets. This recent tragedy now appears to be the direct result of such policies, and I find it reprehensible.”

Rep. Mike May, R-Parker
September 10, 2008

10:23 a.m.

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4gColoNative writes:

Deport or incarcerate Hernandez?
I vote for life imprisonment, no possibility for parole, in the US.
September 10, 2008

10:24 a.m.

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SanctuaryCity writes:

tax ritter has my finger.
September 10, 2008

11:10 a.m.

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Ashley writes:

Let's first remember that all those "aliens" you're talking about are people, just human beings like you and I. They live, love, breathe, eat, sleep, cry and dream like everyone else. It's dehumanizing to call them aliens, and unnecessary. And I'd just like to point out the hypocrisy of you talking about Governor Ritter laying the blame at someone else's feet: where are your solutions? How about this for a start: let's make good use of the central databanks and compile all the traffic and warrant information into one single databank that all the metro police departments; hell, the whole state can buy into! Yes, it'll cost more money and manpower, but if the entire state contributes, it might save more lives in the long-term, and NOT just in cases where we get into a state-wide hissy fit about illegal immigration.
September 10, 2008

11:20 a.m.

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paperboy writes:

Thanks for the lesson, ssqured. I know a bit of law, but I didn't know that bit.

As for the law (any laws) being simple, I don't think so. Widely misunderstood? Absolutely. Often simple? That too. Generally simple? Maybe to you.

Your statisitcs on crime for illegal aliens are interesting. Do you have sources? I would love to know how these data are collected.
September 10, 2008

11:35 a.m.

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watcher1 writes:

Unfortunately, this is how it works in our government.

Everyone wants to make their "point" that they are underfunded or understaffed by letting things go to hell--at the expense of the citizens safety.

We have too many departments of "safety" with competing EGOS and BUDGETS. They all need to be disbanded.

This whole mess is disgusting. Illegal aliens running rampant across the nation with local, state and national complicity. Great for the companies who want to keep wages low at the expense of Americans so they can bank the extra cash.
September 10, 2008

11:42 a.m.

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gs writes:

Can the girl friend be deported? Or charged with a crime? How about the people that gave him the use of the car?
September 10, 2008

11:55 a.m.

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coarizona writes:

gs, Forget that...lets get Ritter/Hickie on the hook for a lawsuit. Until we force them to enforce the law they will pander to the special interest groups of this state. Recall/sue they have endangered the taxpaying citizens of this state. Now they must pay for their bleeding heart/profit driven insanity.
September 10, 2008

11:59 a.m.

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philvysor writes:

How come I don't see any ILLEGAL comments on the Billy Jenkins (EX- BRONCO PLAYER) story. He killed someone on a scooter and then fled the sceen. How come none of you are commenting on that story. Oh I see everone thinks that only ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS commit HIT AND RUN'S crimes.
September 10, 2008

12:04 p.m.

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roger44 writes:

if the girlfriend is illegal, she can be deported. And to those who say don't break up a family, it was their choice to break the laws. prison breaks up families of citizens, why cry when it affects illegals? She can take the child with her. I wish they would publish the name of his employer also, and see if they made any attempt to check him out. They talk about them being cheap labor, factor in the medical, welfare, and other costs and it's not cheap, only to the scum who put them to work, and it costs the American workers in lower wages. if the same parade appears next may in Denver demanding rights for illegals, have 50 buses standing by to haul them away, if they can furnish all those Cops to arrest the protesters at the DNC, they can sure bring them out in force for the illegals.
September 10, 2008

12:16 p.m.

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oldgunney writes:

its not just the illeagles that are killing our babies,its all the damned drunks and junkies of all colors.
September 10, 2008

12:17 p.m.

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coarizona writes:

philvysor, Did you read the article? That is what we are discussing.
September 10, 2008

12:21 p.m.

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mmannino writes:

Ritter and Hickenlooper are talking out of both sides of their mouths on dealing with illegal aliens. They are putting minimal resources to deal with the issue. They have policies that discourage cooperation with immigration officials. Most importantly, they are not using the power of their office to support strong law enforcement dealing with illegal aliens. They should hold press conferences indicating that criminal activity involving illegal aliens will not be tolerated. They should hold press conferences when ICE does not follow through with immigration law enforcement. They should propose new law enforcement measures to deal with illegal alien crimes.

I think that the prior LE incident with Henandez has been covered up. In the last incident, he assaulted a police officer, a very serious offense. This incident was purposely not forwarded to ICE I believe because of Denver policies against cooperation with ICE.

This sad situation also brings out another culpable group. There appear to be a network of individuals and companies facilitating illegal alien crime. There are companies that post bail and retrieve impounded cars for illegal aliens. I suspect that these companies have thriving relationships with illegal aliens. I believe that some additional laws are required to curtail these relationships.
September 10, 2008

12:36 p.m.

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theairdog writes:

Ricky Lee:

He had the vehicle back because Quality Mitsubishi got it out of the impound yard for $180, and gave it back to the registered owners (probably didn't want them to default on a loan payment ) - who just happened to be the parents of Hernandez's girlfriend.

I wonder if Quality Mitsi (or the parents) will be liable in civil court?
September 10, 2008

12:39 p.m.

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linkous2 writes:

If companies would quit hiring illegals, they would leave........americans would have jobs, emergency medical care that we (tax payers) currently provide illegal alliens could go to americans. And yes more room in our jails for american criminals not room and board for our "border brothers". Our Police Officers can only do what the State of Denver allows.
September 10, 2008

12:42 p.m.

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philvysor writes:

coarizona, shouldn't the article read "23 year old man kills 3 in hit and run accident, one being a 3 year old? 23 year old man has 20+ priors! Judicial System has FAILED AGAIN!" Looks like to me the focus is on that he was in the country illegally.
September 10, 2008

12:45 p.m.

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Jack_Bauer writes:

My sympathies go to the 3 families who lost loved ones in this tragedy. If the laws currently on our books had been enforced the first time he broke the law and was sent to ICE, the death of these 3 people would have never happened. This is a story that repeats itself many times a day in this country due to the same lack of law enforcement and looking the other way by local, state and federal law enforcement officials.

As for Ritter's comments - they ring completely hollow coming from a man who had the limpest wrist when it came to prosecuting illegal immigrants caught for one thing or another.
Mr. Agricultural Trespass now thinks that something should be done even though he never tried to do or focused any initiative towards the issue during his tenure as DA of Denver. Pathetic.
September 10, 2008

12:54 p.m.

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gs writes:

No one thinks the girlfriend/parents gave a car to someone they knew didn't have a driver's license and/or had numerous moving violations? That sounds like an actionable cause.
September 10, 2008

1:17 p.m.

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philvysor writes:

"SS if they are EQUAL how come there is not over 150 comments on that story also?" How come we are not complaining about how at 6 o'clock in the morning he was drunk. Or how he hid at Cherry creek park. OR lets talk about how 2 other vehicles were also damaged because of his carelessness. I only see 13 comments on that story. I wonder why?
September 10, 2008

1:23 p.m.

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fiesty writes:

philvysor - no one said that "only illegals commit crimes". What they are mad about is that a) due to lax enforcement of our laws, someone who shouldn't be here killed 3 US citizens, and b) the illegal had over 16 prior arrests!

This illegal is a prime example of the fact that illegals, as a group, tend to commit more crime than U.S. citizens. Their crime rate is 2-5 times that of their representative proportion of the population, and 2 1/2 times that of white non-illegals! [3/1] And here's some more for you:

- Illegals commit between 700,000 to 1,289,000 or more crimes per year. [1]
- Illegals commit at least 2,158 murders each year – a number 3x greater participation than their proportion of the population. [1]
- Illegals constitute 30% of our federal and state prisons- at a cost of $1.6 annually to house, feed, and clothe. [1]
- 'The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration: Nearly One Million Sex Crimes Committed by Illegal Immigrants In The United States '
[2]
- In Los Angeles, 95% of some 1,500 outstanding warrants for homicides are for illegals. About 67% of the 17,000 outstanding fugitive felony warrants are for illegals. [1]
- There are currently over 400,000 unaccounted for illegal alien criminals with outstanding deportation orders. At least one fourth of these are hard core criminals. [1]
- 80,000 to 100,000 illegals who have been convicted of serious crimes are walking the streets. Based on studies they will commit an average of 13 serious crimes per perpetrator. [1]
- In 1980, our Federal and state facilities held fewer than 9,000 criminal aliens but at the end of 2003, approximately 267,000 illegals were incarcerated in U.S. correctional facilities. [1]
- 56% of illegals charged with a reentry offense had previously been convicted on at least 5 prior occasions. [1]
- Illegals charged with unlawful reentry had the most extensive criminal histories. 90% had been previously arrested. Of those with a prior arrest, 50% had been arrested for violent or drug-related felonies. [1]
- Illegal alien sexual predators commit an estimated 130,909 sexual crimes each year. [1]
- There may be as many as 240,000 illegal alien sex offenders circulating throughout America. Based on studies, they will commit an average of 8 sex crimes per perpetrator before being caught. [1]
- Nearly 63% of illegal alien sex offenders had been deported on another offense prior to committing the sex crime. [1]
- Only 2% of the illegal alien sex offenders in one study had no history of criminal behavior, beyond crossing the border illegally. [1]
- In Operation Predator, ICE arrested and deported 6,085 illegal alien pedophiles. Some studies suggest each pedophile molests average of 148 children. If so, that could be as many as 900,580 victims. [1]

[1] transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html
[2] www.drdsk..com/articleshtml
[3] www.usillegalaliens.com/impacts_of_illegal_immigration_crime_summary.html
September 10, 2008

1:27 p.m.

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lwt5150 writes:

Let me fall into one of the dozens of speed traps in this city, and I get fined like I'm wealthy. I have to pay the fine for their little motorcycle speed trap because I am responsible and have things to lose.

This POS got ticket after ticket, always got out of jail, and ended up killing people. He didn't even have a license, to say nothing of the required insurance!

And I am a taxpaying American, born here! They will pin me TO THE WALL for this type of business, but this a**wipe gets off again and again, until he kills some of my fellow citizens.

My elected leaders are no better than this Guatemalan piece of human debris!
September 10, 2008

1:47 p.m.

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philvysor writes:

fiesty, point well taken. But i would like to see the statistics on the other races. But I'm sure there is none right, I mean seeing that no US Citizen has ever killed another US Citizen. Or not even a LEGAL person has ever been released for crimes they commited over and over and over and over and over and over again.By the way Still waiting for the number of comments to go up on the Billy Jenkins "DUI FATAL HIT AND RUN ACCIDENT."
September 10, 2008

1:47 p.m.

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mtnboy75 writes:

The fact that the man who is responsible for this tragedy is still living and breathing is a testament to how messed up our society is today. This man (I apologize for my loose usage of the word) came into our country and killed people. In my mind, that is no different than another country's standing army coming into our country and attacking us...in fact, its lower. He should be treated as an invader, but yet our legal system gives him refuge.

This is not an anti-immigration message. People wanting to come to our country to make better lives for themselves should be given the chance as long as they are willing to contribute, like most everyone else. I understand that these types of people actually make the United States stronger.

To me, however, it is obvious that the man responsible for this had no such intent. He should be given no quarter and should be shot on site. Some sort of deterrent should be in place for others with similar intent.

God help us if we ever were attacked by another country. In defending myself, I think I would fear the repercussions from our legal system more than I would the guns of our enemies.
September 10, 2008

2:31 p.m.

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philvysor writes:

"HEY KOOL-AID", SS if this about the "hottest" issues facing our country then everyone in this room needs to look in the mirror. Because "WE" placed these PUBLIC ADMINISTRATORS in their positions and pay their salaries. The very ones whom do not enforce the very laws "WE" voted for. So I guess another PRO ATHLETE who has commited a crime who is out on bail and will probably receive minimal punishment is not a "HOT" topic of yours. To bad maybe you need to expand your horizons and look at the overall problem. Get rid of the horse blinders buddy this is not a immigrant problem its a people problem, maybe you do need to teach simple and rational common sense. If you did maybe people would not get in a vehicle without a license or insurance and kill other people or they would not get into a vehicle drunk at 6 o'clock in the morning and rear end others on scooters killing them. But like you said its about ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS.
September 10, 2008

2:43 p.m.

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fiesty writes:

Anyone know a candidate who is tough on illegal immigration? Both Obama and McCain have stated they not only support amnesty, but a PATH TO CITIZENSHIP for illegals here! So I'm trying to figure out an independent who is tough on illegal immigration. Then I'm going to email all my family and friends. Maybe this story will be the straw that breaks the camel's back, and that independent will finally stand a chance...
September 10, 2008

2:46 p.m.

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COLibertarian writes:

phil

If we as a society enforced the immigration laws on the books, would there be less deaths or more deaths in this country in the past few years? You want to save lives here in this country? He had been pulled over and cited at least 20 times. He is here illegally This SPECIFIC case is an ILLEGAL ALIEN problem. No bones about it and no matter how you try to spin it. Human beings lost their lives because politicians did not do their jobs. It was preventable in every way. Now you want to spin this story with the Jenkin's story? I think you need to have a private, personal face to face meeting with the victom's families. Let you personally explain your reasonings for the political spin.
September 10, 2008

2:51 p.m.

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LOUIE writes:

RMN printed today, (I get both papers in print amongst other print media), there are over 4000 illegals in Colorado prisons for felonies alone. Forget the plea bargains to lesser offenses that Ritter did, or misdemeanors. I wonder how many in larger states like California, Texas, Florida, and others. For a state as small as Colorado prison population is, that's one hell of a number we the taxpayer are paying for. It's got to stop, no wonder there's no bed space in our state prisons, and the citys keep turning them lose to reoffend.
September 10, 2008

3:03 p.m.

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philvysor writes:

COLibertarian just like I commented in the other room, I had a cousin killed by a hit and run driver. This person is a politicians son who was given a 6 month sentence for killing my cousin because his daddy called in a favor. He was drunk and driving on a ICE packed road. You are right by saying he is here illegally and he should not have been driving. But is it any different than how my cousin was killed? I agree there is a immigration problem but that does not mean that it attributes to peoples choices and their actions. If Hernandez would not have been here in this country those people maybe alive just the same if that politicians son would not have been driving drunk that night my cousin would probably be alive also. A persons status did not kill these people.
September 10, 2008

3:27 p.m.

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COLibertarian writes:

Phil I am so sorry for your loss.

Any discussion going forward in this type of forum would seem callous to either your cousin or to the people that are grieving in this case.

To be fair in this case, You and I will have to agree to disagree. We see things differently. I will leave it at that.
September 10, 2008

3:31 p.m.

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philvysor writes:

feisty, I say lets put ssqured on the ballot. He has the answer to the biggest problem facing our country. Getting rid of all the illegal immigrants means we get rid of the majority of the crime in the US. and we'll make RickyLee his VP. And this will be their campaign slogan'...If this worthless scumbag and other ILLEGAL ALIEN CRIMINALS like him weren't in our country in the first place, we'd have a lot more room for AMERICAN SCUMBAGS in our prisons...'
September 10, 2008

4:12 p.m.

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philvysor writes:

SS, I believe fiesty was looking for a independant canidate and seeing you said you are a independant thinker i figured you would be best for the job. And as far as the comments I also believe you agreed with RickyLee on his comments about the illegal and US scum in the correction facilities in america. And as far as guts I would love to see step from behind this hidden forum and say some of your comments to the illegal population in this country. You have alot of guts and intelligence behind a computer. Stay hidden my friend best place for you!
September 10, 2008

4:51 p.m.

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Heidi writes:

ssqured,

For what it's worth, I always respect your opinion. I would vote for you and Ricky!
September 10, 2008

5:23 p.m.

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BacklashSchitzka writes:

jamesdenver wrote to me: "Good christ I hope you don't have kids, nor do I want you around me or mine. (Spoken from a caucasion)"

Well, yes...I do have children. They are half Caucasian. One served in Iraq - twice. He served in the military for six years and now he owns a tech company.

The other is a local cop who is totally frustrated that he is required by his department to learn conversational Spanish, yet, he is not permitted to enforce the law when illegal aliens violate it.

We all grew up in the same East Denver neighborhood and we were in no way members of the priviledged class. We struggled between lower-middle class to just middle class depending on the economy.

I went to college when my sons were in high school so that I could have better career options. But...due to the influx of foreigners taking the jobs, I'm outta luck. And, because I am a Caucasian with a degree in journalism from MSCD, I am not considered employable by the RMN. But just take a look at who do get the jobs there.
September 10, 2008

5:29 p.m.

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redwhiteandBLUE writes:

One word for Ritter and Hick..Self-deport..step down please!
September 10, 2008

6:01 p.m.

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LOUIE writes:

Phil like Colibertarian, I am sorry for loss also; however it is much different with an illegal, many after committing crimes in America run to Mexico or there country of origin, much like the illegal who worked for the mayor who killed officer Young. The drunk driver who killed my son had also killed someone once before as a juvenile 4-5 years previous to killing my middle son. Today he sits in prison doing time, I was able to sue the kids insurance, which I did. Everyday illegals caused accidents in America, many are hit and run because they have no licence nor insurance as they are here breaking the law by being here. If they can make Mexico, or the country of thier origin, after thier crime, good luck. Immigration was designed to weed out the undesirables, criminals, and those who pose a threat to our nation. The fact we are paying for 4000 illegals right now in our prisons just in Colorado alone is terrible, and maybe it's time we make other countries pay for thier illegals who are incarcerated in our prisons. Even our prisons are being over run by illegals. Like CoLibertarian, I am sorry for your loss, but if he was an illegal, who like this criminal had committed many legal infractions, someone should have to answer why the law is not being enforced. This governor allowed them to go scot free as a prosecutor by plea bargains that not only didn't fit the crime, but allowed them to commit more serious crimes like rape. It's wrong, thus like the mayor, who became a murderer by proxy by employing an illegal who murdered a fine Denver police officer, and was knowingly in violation of the law because of his greed in not wanting to pay an American a decent wage, the governor also became a rapist by proxy for his own actions. Problem is, niether want to take responsibility for thier actions. Immigration laws were written for a reason. Many countries in Europe, such as Great Britain, have suspended immigration all together, because they are being totally over run by immigrants who aren't fleaing oppression, they are there because of economics, and have cause big problems for the host country both as criminals, and other strains on the economy of the host nation. It's happening here also. Education, healthcare, many things are now deep in the hole, because we are being forced to take care of citizens of other nations. Oil has made latin america rich, but the people don't see a dime of it. If we deport canadians on the spot when caught, latin americans should be treated no different. Mexico deports illegals immediately, they refuse to play with them and an illegal there has no rights unlike America. We need to reciprocate by enforcing our laws as well. This 3 year old died because Colorado and Denver have become a sanctuary for refusing to enforce the law. America needs take action now before the problem get further out of control than it already is. Sorry for your loss Phil, but like Colibertarian I disagree also, with deep respect for your loss.
September 10, 2008

6:24 p.m.

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LOUIE writes:

Some states were actually paying for the illegals higher education in American colleges, while denying our own citizens. States like California had to pass laws to stop the practice along with many other states. Why would you turn down an American citizen wanting to go to college and turn around and finance the college education of an illegal? I just read a big article in TIME magazine, AUG, 08 issue on this very issue which traveled under most people's radar because the liberal newspaper media refuses to inform the people, until something sensational happens and they can't avoid writting about it. Americans should always come first when it comes to college, I don't care what race they are. But many states were financing illegals while turning American citizen away, what's wrong with this picture? Several states had to enact laws to stop the practice, several still do it. Enough is enough; why must we pass laws to protect Americans over those who break our laws by being here? It was an eye openning article. I love to read, I pick up a lot, but the RMN ought to quit pandering to the politicians, and stand up for the people as I wrote about in my first post. So what if the politicians deny the print media access and interviews, make them accountable and get off your a$$ and investigate politicians, instead of being thier sound bite cause it's easier. If TIME can write about it, why are the papers here scared to?
September 10, 2008

6:39 p.m.

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LOUIE writes:

RMN is scared of former mayor Webb, a lady converts half a million dollars to her private business, Webb steps in and the RMN shuts up. Why didn't the woman get charged criminally, why didn't the mayor's bodygaurds who come up stabbed at a hospital and can't account for thier gun as police officers? Scared, say so! You do the people a great disservice and facilitate coruption because the politician is more important than the people. Maybe the people would like to know how someone gets off hiesting half a million dollars of public funds running the Montbello charter school when Webb steps in. Sounds like a sweetheart deal to me! Somebody has to rat before the RMN will write about the governor's plea agreements, the RMN has court reporters hanging out at the courthouse, but why investigate when thier is sensationalism afoot? Everything in this town has to hit the fan like this accident, before the RMN has a clue or will right about it.
September 10, 2008

8:12 p.m.

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diggtbks writes:

Coloradans remember, this is the safety you and your family can expect with a Dem in charge of government. Your family will not be safe anywhere, not even at an ice cream parlor.
September 10, 2008

8:16 p.m.

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RichardParker writes:

Fresh

Most of your links did not work for me. However, the first one

$11 Billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare to illegal aliens each year.
http://tinyurl.com/zob77

refers to immigrants, not illegal aliens.
September 10, 2008

9:04 p.m.

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LOUIE writes:

It is not one party's problem and not the other, both know the problem exists. We need to hold both partys accountable. This problem did not suddenly originate with our current governor, or mayor, it started long ago with people like Pena, Romer and others who have long since left office. Pena even appeared and supported the rally for illegals during the DNC, another who by proxy shares the guilt of the cost illegal immigration has taken on our community. As taxpayers and citizens, we have payed for too long. Hopefully as tragic as the death of this little child and the 2 others truly are, it will galvanize the politicians of both parties to action. Hinkenlooper and the city council of Denver, less one council person who stood up for the people on the recent law concerning unlicensed drivers in Denver, I don't believe they will do anything, they're cowards scared they won't get re-elected. Mr. Ritter might, he knows the road to honor, if he choses, perhaps he'll now take that road, and stand up for the people. I have little hope when it comes to any of them taking action on this issue; but if it happens at all, Ritter I think will be the one to bring it. Unlike Hinkenlooper and the Denver city council minus the one council member who stood with the people, he has more of a conscience. Maybe I'm wrong...
September 11, 2008

8:43 a.m.

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Heidi writes:

Where is little intrepid today? Maybe she got stuck on the elevator on the 13th floor.
September 11, 2008

1:18 p.m.

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linkous2 writes:

Carefull Ricky, you cannot go in any mexican nieborhood and survive....little mexico. Again, the big companies are feeding the pigeons and they are sh--ing on our porch. Stop feeding them and they will go south..........
September 11, 2008

2:33 p.m.

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shorty2987 writes:

I would like to know why some of you have to be dissin mexico and the mexicans, I understand that you guys are discusing the article and because of this I would like to point out that this man is not mexican he is from guatemala so I would appreciate it if you could stick to the facts of the article and just for a quick second put aside your prejudice against mexico and mexicans, because as I mentioned before Hernandez is from Guatemala not from Mexico so stop trying to blame everything on Mexico.
September 11, 2008

7:38 p.m.

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JimminyJames writes:

Oh, please.

I just can't wait for the next installment of the Billo v. Geraldo shout down, can you?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMNC6L...

Sure the teevee talkingheads are entertaining, especially when it looks like they might come to blows, but we're losing the plot: a child has died. A little boy whose parents loved him. It's the very definition of tragedy.

Why then are we talking about immigration?

Of course this driver was terribly, heinously wrong. He's got a long track-record of driving horribly, and for that reason alone should not have been behind the wheel-- not to mention the fact that he doesn't have a license. Let's see this fool behind bars for the crime he's committed. HOWEVER:

How does this happen? Be honest. Everybody knows it isn't unheard of-- and furthermore, everybody knows it's often a home-grown American citizen behind that wheel.

If a given individual is undocumented... WHY?

Bottom line: if our government weren't so recalcitrant about documenting the workers we attract to this country, there wouldn't be so many undocumented people. I mean, no brainer, right?

And if there weren't so many undocumented people, we'd be a heckuva lot closer to getting a handle on renegade motorists.

Don't scapegoat the immigrants. They're just trying to support their families, providing the backbone of our economy while they're at it.

Look here to learn more: http://www.americasvoiceonline.org/
September 12, 2008

1:39 p.m.

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Jade12 writes:

This is a such a tragic even and I'm disgusted that it's being exploited for political gain. The family needs our support not for us to use them to push an agenda. Immigrants and especially undocumented immigrants commit crimes at a much lower rate than U.S. Citizens. This is just a tragic incident committed by one individual, not an entire community and some of you need to remember that.
September 12, 2008

3:18 p.m.

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RoyalPayne writes:

I hold Gov. Ritter and the other elected officals who refuse to enforce our immigration laws personally responsible for every citizen who is killed by an illegal alien. YOU allowed illegals to come here, YOU allowed hem to stay in Colorado, YOU allowed them to find work here, YOU passed some of the toughest immigration laws in the nation, YOU knew these laws would NEVER be enforced! Even our fearless President Bush has sold out to special interest groups. SHAME ON ALL OF YOU !!

Home › News › Local News

Finger-pointing over handling of illegal immigrant in fatal crash

By Judi Villa, Rocky Mountain News

Published September 9, 2008 at 11:58 a.m.Updated September 10, 2008 at 2:22 p.m.

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Published September 9, 2008 at 11:58 a.m.
Updated September 10, 2008 at 2:22 p.m.