Married as teens, still together: Advice for Palin's daughter
By Julie Hutchinson, Special to the Rocky
Published September 8, 2008 at 12:05 a.m.
Photo by Javier Manzano@The Rocky
George Brandt, 74, and Ann Brandt, 73, of Broomfield, were married in 1953 in Illinois, when both were 19. This month, they will celebrate their 55th anniversary.
Photo by Javier Manzano@The Rocky
Wilma Reid and her husband of 39 years, Jerry Reid, sit at the kitchen table of their Arvada home joined by their pet Shih Tzu, Clarence.
Photo by Javier Manzano@The Rocky
Ann and George Brandt's hands
Photo by Javier Manzano@The Rocky
The Anderson family at their Aurora home. Dallyn Anderson, 15, back row from left, her mother Brenda Anderson, 35, Gracie Anderson, 18 months, Hyrum Anderson, 4, Jeff Anderson, 38, Sophia Anderson, 6; front row from left, Sage Anderson, 8, Calvin Anderson, 14, and Tawny Anderson, 12.
Ann and George Brandt can relate to Bristol Palin, the 17-year-old daughter of Republican vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin, and the teen's 18-year-old boyfriend, Levi Johnston.
So can Jerry and Wilma Reid and Jeff and Brenda Anderson.
The Brandts, Reids and Andersons all married young, most as teenagers, and remain together after a combined 112 years.
Bristol Palin, who is five months pregnant, and Johnston haven't set a date. But if they marry while still in their teens they will be among a minority of newlyweds.
In 2006, the median age for American grooms had climbed to 27.5 while brides averaged 25.9 years.
Bristol and her young husband-to-be also face big odds against a long-lasting marriage.
Federal statistics show that marriages most likely to end in divorce include a bride younger than 18.
The Brandts, Reids and Andersons married in different eras, but they share a common experience. Here are their stories.
Ann and George Brandt, Broomfield
Young George Brandt walked her home three miles in the rain after a party in Chicago, and Ann Talazus was smitten. Eighteen months later, in 1953, the couple said their "I dos" at Our Savior Lutheran Church in Norwood Park, Ill.
Both were 19, not old enough at the time to vote.
But this month, the Broomfield couple will celebrate their 55th wedding anniversary.
Their secret?
"Shared values," Ann Brandt said. "We were in a study, and someone interviewed both of us, and we concurred it was a mixture of faith and humor and understanding."
Ann Brandt said her parents had little to say when she announced her impending marriage, probably because her own mother had married at 18. The couple's three daughters all married well into their 20s; their son walked down the aisle at age 30.
Although the Brandts didn't have their first child until they had been married almost three years, Ann Brandt said the news of the high-profile Bristol Palin pregnancy reminded her how much times have changed.
"In those days, premarital sex was absolutely, strictly forbidden. I mean, it just didn't happen, and if it did, you certainly didn't talk about it.
"Anyone who got pregnant in high school or before marriage - it was hushed up. You were sent out of town and brought back afterward and no mention was ever made of the baby. It's hard to explain to people who didn't live through that era."
The Brandts, now retired and living in Broomfield, both completed their college educations long after they married, taking classes at night and part time. George Brandt retired from IBM as an electrical engineer. Ann Brandt taught English and is the author of two books about coping with illness.
Jerry and Wilma Reid, Arvada
They had been sweethearts since they were students at Skinner Junior High School in Denver.
But marriage was very much a hurry-up affair when Jerry and Wilma Reid tied the knot in 1968 at Highlands United Methodist Church in northwest Denver.
It took place two weeks after Wilma phoned Jerry at work to tell him she was five months pregnant. She was 18; he was 19.
"I told her 'We will get married,' " Reid recalled. "We were in love and had planned on getting married in our 20s. It just happened to be we were a little younger. Of course our families were embarrassed.
"Both of our parents were kind of shocked, but they were glad we were going to get married, to do the right thing."
Reid said his wife's family rose to the occasion, helping the young couple plan their hasty wedding with flowers, cake and all the trimmings.
"Her mother made her a real nice pink dress. She didn't feel a white dress would be good."
Reid and his wife, who both work for Kaiser Permanente, live in Arvada. Both of them strongly identified with Bristol Palin and Levi Johnston as they faced the glare of national publicity.
"I know the parents are going through what my parents went through," Jerry Reid said, recalling the impact of the shock when their families learned Wilma was five months pregnant.
He eagerly shared the lessons he and his wife learned from marrying young and becoming parents four months later.
"My advice is hang in there. If you need counseling, don't be ashamed or embarrassed," he said. "You won't regret it. If I had it to do all over again, I'd do it again. I'd do it all over again."
Next month, the Reids will celebrate their 40th wedding anniversary with a cruise to Hawaii.
Jeff and Brenda Anderson, Aurora
Jeff Anderson met his future wife while working as a missionary for his church in Wisconsin. The young couple dated about a year and married in 1991 at the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in Littleton.
Jeff was 21; his bride was 18.
"There was a little bit of concern when we announced our engagement, but no real effort to discourage us," said Jeff Anderson, who grew up in Denver and graduated from George Washington High School.
The Andersons waited a couple of years before their first child was born and today are parents of four girls and three boys.
Anderson works for a company that secures work visas and employs foreign workers under contract to U.S. employers.
His wife, a stay-at-home mom, "works a whole lot harder than I do," he said, laughing.
As his eldest daughter approaches the age his wife was when he married her, Anderson said he realizes now how young she was.
"I have a hard time seeing her be prepared at this age, although my wife and I felt very prepared at the time." Reed believes their work with the Mormon Church and its family-centered culture helped prepare them for marriage.
As far as that high-profile young couple framed in the public spotlight, Anderson wishes them the happiness he and his wife have shared.
"We haven't experienced anything beyond disagreement over certain issues," Anderson said. "I think that's largely a result of our commitment, our recognition that we're in it for the long haul.
"My advice for them is nothing they haven't heard or won't hear: A good marriage is work. It has to be a priority and a focus."
By the numbers
59% of marriages involving women younger than 18 end in divorce or separation after 15 years.
36% of marriages involving women married at 20 or older end in divorce or separation after 15 years.
79% of women will become poor if they do not finish high school and give birth out of wedlock before the age of 20.
27.5 years is the median age for U.S. men at first marriage in 2006
26.4 years is the median age for Colorado men at first marriage, a four-year average from 2000-03.
24.4 years is the median age for Colorado women at first marriage, a four-year average from 2000-2003
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September 8, 2008
1:40 a.m.
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jax writes:
How odd (and sad) that RMN would only write this article now when the folks in this article should have been applauded and recognized long ago. Not that anyone cares, but I was married at 17 and had my first and only child at 19. I do fall into the first category above as I was divorced after 10 years, but I wouldn’t have changed it for the world. I saw, lived and experienced many different things that I otherwise wouldn’t have but more importantly, I have the most wonderful child anyone could ask for. My ex and I still remain friends as I have known him since I was 12 but I now am truly happily with my “one and only” who I have been married to for 11 years. Bristol and Levi will be perfectly fine, whether they remain together ‘forever’ or not. They will always share an amazing gift that will shower them with love for the rest of their lives. Of course it would be much EASIER for these two if the media would stop this twisted fascination with them. How about RMN?
September 8, 2008
7:17 a.m.
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Hambone writes:
you just wrote a small essay on it, so obviously you're contributing to the debate.
September 8, 2008
7:50 a.m.
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ldestampin writes:
Well I say thank goodness the Rocky Mountain News did this FRONT PAGE STORY....I never would have known. And besides there is no other story as important as this one. Thank you again for a great decision ...on informing the public about teen marriage. Again I am beside my self with happiness that this was the front page story...Thank you
September 8, 2008
8:42 a.m.
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DenverDan writes:
If this was Obama family, the attack media on the right would be all over this. RussL would have an extra hour on this, Shawn Hannity would cry outrage on this. I can’t believe McCain wife had on over Three hundred thousand dollars of what ever crap she had on. It is supper that all the rich white wives of Cherry Creek like the McCain ticket. And they love the goddess hockey mom. I the middle class can’t afford my son to play hockey.
September 8, 2008
8:50 a.m.
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almostarmy2003 writes:
Judging by the amount of times I've had to grab my neighbors daughter out of the street while she sat in the house I believe you should at least have to take a test before becoming a parent. A job wouldn't be a bad thing to have either.
September 8, 2008
9 a.m.
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trinidad writes:
charlie b
Sarah Palin believes that all life is valuable. She not trying to control the wombs of girls and women. Gov. Ritter tried to make it mandatory for girls, I believe ages 9-13, to receive the vaccination,Gardasil, for cervical cancer. The state of Colorado tried to make a decision concerning MY 9 year old daughters womb. How hypocritical is that? How do I know that this new vaccine is safe? Abortions aren't 100 % safe. Certainly not for the baby that is murdered. Women sometimes loss their wombs due to excessive bleeding from complications from the surgery. I knew a couple of girls in college that used abortions as birth control. Sarah Palin is trying to give a voice for the past and future victim of abortions. Her daughters pregnancy doesn't concern you or affect your life in any way. Why don't you champion a cause that deals with mens health? Not the wombs of females.
September 8, 2008
9:29 a.m.
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fairness writes:
trinidad: "Her daughters pregnancy doesn't concern you or affect your life in any way."
And some unknown woman down the street, in another town, in another state who has an abortion doesn't concern you ar affect your life in any way, either.
September 8, 2008
9:31 a.m.
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ikat2 writes:
Right ON, trinidad!
September 8, 2008
9:43 a.m.
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fntsymtn writes:
The difference between an abortion and the death penalty, freethought, is that with the death penalty you are given a chance to live before you prove you don't deserve to.
Judging by the examples you have given, you appear to consider abortion a wrongful death (even murder, it seems). Correct?
Also, can you cite any evidence that global warming terminates life? Please keep it to mammalian life since all of your above examples deal with mammals.
September 8, 2008
9:48 a.m.
Sensible writes:
(This comment was removed by the site staff.)
September 8, 2008
9:57 a.m.
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mkars writes:
Everytime I see Sarah Pain I think White trash. No matter how you dress her up or how she "performs" she is and will be white trash. The Republican ticket is a joke. I don't need a man or a woman preaching to me about my womb or my daughters. I can honestly say I was not ready at 17 to have a child. I don't care what anyone says. Kick her out, tell her to get a job, provide insurance for it and hope to God nothing goes wrong. How many fairy tale stories like this do you see everyday? Is this supposed to excuse irresponsibility? Like Obama said families are off limits but if Sarah palin is going to keep shoving her family down everyone's throat I don't feel sorry for her when her values are attacked. I hope Biden puts her in her place in the debates. Pitbull, whatever, She's a chihuahua, an annoying little nippy rat dog with a jeweled collar. I am glad to see the good ol' boy family value thing hasn't changed much. But I dare you to tell me what I can and can't do with my body. Why don't you look at the economy, gas prices, mortgage crisis, education, environment. Those interest me more than her hoochie 17 year old.
September 8, 2008
10 a.m.
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fntsymtn writes:
Yet again, freethought refuses to state his/her position on an issue, snd refuses to answer a direct question .... you wouldn't happen to be a politician, would you, freethought?
September 8, 2008
10:02 a.m.
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Sensible writes:
boundthought -
I've requested that your disgusting comment be removed.
We shall see if RMN has the guts.
September 8, 2008
10:12 a.m.
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mkars writes:
fnts and sensible, I think Freethought's stance is pretty clear????
What question was asked that wasn't answered? I think her words were"Thanks Sarah Palin for setting women back 30 years" Maybe it came with a little sarcasm and you guys didn't get it?
September 8, 2008
10:17 a.m.
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fntsymtn writes:
mkars: Scroll up the page a little.
At 9:43 a.m. I specifically asked:
Judging by the examples you have given, you appear to consider abortion a wrongful death (even murder, it seems). Correct?
Also, can you cite any evidence that global warming terminates life? Please keep it to mammalian life since all of your above examples deal with mammals.
I have not seen a response to those questions, just vague references to The Bible and what others believe. The quote you supplied offers no answers to my questions, only a platitude on a general stance about Sarah Palin.
September 8, 2008
10:19 a.m.
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fntsymtn writes:
Actually you sound like a coward behind a keyboard, freethought, but it's your prerogative to be one.
September 8, 2008
10:20 a.m.
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mkars writes:
I got it, they just didn't.
September 8, 2008
10:25 a.m.
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buffsblg writes:
Teen pregnancy is a significant issue and anything that brings it to discussion is worthwhile. Children born to teen mothers are statistically less successful in almost every measurable sense. While having a teen mom is not an insurmountable challenge, it certainly make life much more difficult.
While my vast disagreements with Palin on almost every issue would prevent me from voting for her, if she is elected it would be nice if she uses some of her time helping with realistic programs to reduce teen pregnancy. Certainly, whatever side of the abortion debate you are on, reducing unwanted pregnancies and therefore the demand for abortions should be a bipartisan effort.
September 8, 2008
10:28 a.m.
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mkars writes:
And, you two, sound like antagonistic men or those hoaky women that get to stay home all day and home school their children to keep them away from those nasty liberals. Who thinks that killing a child is wrong. Well of course it is, would I? No. Do I want that choice ? Yes. That's what it all boils down to. You have the audacity to call someone a coward and those are your perogatives but how about looking at the other things the Republican party is going to screw up if elected. You want this woman as your next president? I don't. She said on tv that she doesn't even know what the Vice President does. Again, white trash.
September 8, 2008
10:33 a.m.
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yaakovwatkins writes:
Fascinating, Bristol Palin is the one who is pregnant out of wedlock, not Sarah Palin. Have any of you ever had a teenager who did something you didn't approve of?
Those people who believe that a woman's body should be under the sole control of the woman when it comes to abortion should rethink their stance. What about morphine? Is the woman entitled to take morphine any time she wants? It's her body. The same thinking applies to marijuana and recreational narcotics. Should teenagers be allowed to make all of their medical and pharmacological decisions?
September 8, 2008
10:41 a.m.
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fntsymtn writes:
Cudos, mkars, for stating your position. Careful defending freethought, though, he/she is a coward because he/she attacks someone on the basis of their position on an issue and then refuses to state his/her own position. That is cowardly, and I'll give no pass to freethought.
As for the republican party platitudes, I have clearly stated repeatedly that neither ticket is deserving of my vote. Not the tax and spend, I know how to live your life better than you do democrats, and certainly not the borrow and spend, I know how to live your life better than you do republicans.
Do you know what the vice president does, without looking it up?
Reality check, the vice president only becomes president if the president dies while in office. Based on your hypothetical question "You want this woman as your next president?" I take it that you think that there is a credible chance that McCain will not see the end of his first term in office if elected. If that is the case, can you point me to any medical evidence that you have to support your assumption? Or do you know of a plot to kill McCain if he's elected? I don't want Sarah Palin to be the next president, but I also do not believe there is a credible chance that McCain will not live for the duration of his presidency, if elected.
September 8, 2008
10:52 a.m.
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mkars writes:
Yaakov, that made no sense. Rethink what stance? I get raped or even get pregnant out of wedlock, mommy and daddy can't help me, do you know the running rate for day care? How about diapers, formula, clothes every three months, dr's exams, and God forbid she has a special needs child. Teenagers do stuff, but pregancy is a life long commitment at 17 and that's a big commitment. If I get raped, what about medical, mental history? Do I want to go through that? Do I want to put my child through that? Yeah, it is about her daughter and bully for her for being supportive and all. Like I said, I just want the choice. No one, and I mean no one has the right to tell me what to do with my body. I make the choice to do drugs, drink ,abuse morphine or whatever the crap you were referring to. My choice. A teenager under the age of 18 is a minor and it would be up to the partents and the children to make that decision. They aren't allowed to do it now if they are under 18. I have to sign forms authorizing medical treatment and understanding the procedures. It's not about that. It's choice. Sarah Palin is the responsible party for her daughter, they made a choice. What if she didn't have that choice to make?
September 8, 2008
10:56 a.m.
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rurude writes:
Okay - so now we are promoting teen preganancy??? This really confuses me and I can't believe that someone said that her daughter's preganancy doesn't affect us. This is just pure craziness. I can't really understand you people.
September 8, 2008
11:10 a.m.
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DenverDan writes:
All you stupid @ss people on the right will vote party first WHY? Did you not learn from doing it twice with Bush? Obama is telling us what he will do, Mccain is just doing personal attacks. I cant afford four more years of this crap. I dont care if Bush has a (R) or a (D) next to his name. He did a crap of a job. We need to get it right this time. Four more years of some-one who is out of touch with the middle class is killing me. War hero yes. Pres NO.
September 8, 2008
11:11 a.m.
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mkars writes:
fnts, I know of no plot and don't have the time to look up his medical history but I have heard he does have some ticker trouble. The fact of the matter is that Presdent of the United States is a pretty stressful position. He is old now in 4 years will be older. I don't know what the Vice President does but I am not speaking from a politcal position either. I am an average everyday working person. I would think that being a Governor would force you to be somewhat knowledgable in the politcal realm ya know 5th grade 101 on who does what, guess not. I will vote. You are saying that neither ticket is deserving of your vote but yet you continue to defend that joke of a party. I don't like her, and I really don't like McCain. I will watch and learn but I am poor and work my butt off and I don't see that the republican ticket is going to do a whole lot for me or this country.
September 8, 2008
11:27 a.m.
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fntsymtn writes:
mkars.
As for McCain's health, judge for yourself regarding his "troubles" based on this report from the Mayo Clinic:
A team of doctors from the Mayo Clinic declared Friday that there appears to be no physical reason why Sen. John McCain, the 71-year-old presumed Republican presidential candidate, could not carry out the duties of the office.
"Sen. McCain enjoys excellent health and displays extraordinary energy, and, while it is impossible to predict any person's future health, I and my colleagues can find no medical reason or problem that would preclude Sen. McCain from fulfilling all of the duties or obligations of the president of the United States," said Dr. John D. Eckstein, an internist who has been overseeing McCain's treatment for 16 years at the famed research center's campus in Scottsdale, Arizona. As posted on CNN.com on May 23, 2008.
If by challenging someone who speaks in platitudes, berates someone for their personal beliefs without stating his/her own stance on the same belief, or asking questions of supporters of Obama (and McCain) implies, to you, that I am defending anyone. I suppose, there is nothing I can do to change your views. I don't defend either "joke of a party" as they are both equally culpable in the failures in this country, and I regularly comment about the failures of both. I hold no allegiance to either party, although I would prefer to have a choice in how much of my hard-earned money is extorted from me by the government to give to others. I vote for the people who I expect to represent my views based on research of their records, published platforms and historical background.
September 8, 2008
11:30 a.m.
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Lorraine writes:
Hurricanes bearing down on the US, the socialist boondoggle bailout of privately run mortgage companies Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, REAL campaign issues to discuss, and the RMN has this has the HUGE front page story? You have got to be kidding me!
Teenagers have been getting pregnant and/or getting married since the beginning of time. My own great-great grandparents found themselves in that situation in 1870, while working for the railroad. They found out they were pregnant, they got married, and continued working for the railroad, he as a foreman, she as a cook.
More recently, a girl in my daughter's class in high school had her baby between junior and senior year, then got married a few months later.
So this is NOT front page news, if it's news at all. I've noticed during the last few months that the RMN is becoming more and more like the National Enquirer.
Why not have an article on Sarah Palin's energy policy or her pipeline project in Alaska? How about a story on how she did an endrun around the big 3 oil companies and fought corruption in the Alaskan Republican Party? Those are REAL stories.
Or how about discussing how the bailout is going to cost taxpayers BILLIONS of dollars.
It's a good thing I get most/all of my news online.
September 8, 2008
11:39 a.m.
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trinidad writes:
Fairness - You're right, my life is not affected by a woman that has an abortion. The only one gravely affected is the aborted child.
Freethought- life begins at conception.
Jeremiah 1:5
Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee, and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee; I have appointed thee a prophet unto the nations.
There is life in the womb.
Luke 1:41
And it came to pass, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit;
I'm eagerly awaiting your best "you christians" comments.
September 8, 2008
11:46 a.m.
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zivo24 writes:
Uh..Lorraine..that "socialist" bailout is coming from Bush.
And if you want articles on Palin..why are you only interested in reading the ones that paint her in a positive light?
How about an article on how she was pregnant before she got married?
There have already been articles on how this woman who now claims to be the champion of fighting against "wasteful government spending in the form of earmarks"..fed at the trough of federal funds when she was mayor of Wasilla.
Did you bother to read them?
In fact, because of the connections she built with help from a hired lobbyists firm tied to both of Alaska's senators, one of whom is now under indictment..she was able to secure millions of dollars of federal funding each year for her town of 6,000. Boise, ID, which has more than 195,000 residents barely got as much funding as Wasilla. Obviously, connections outweighed need.
How about an article on her deception over the "Bridge to Nowhere"?
Prior to moving into the governor's residence..she was on record many times as being all for it.
But then last week she said that as governor she said "Thanks, but no thanks" to those funds, going on to say, "If Alaskans want a bridge, we'll build it ourselves.
The truth is that she found out that she could still take the funds but use them for something else..which is exactly what she did.
She just rerouted all that pork money onto a different plate. She didn't turn it down.
I've read plenty about this woman.
She's a duplicitous hypocrite who plays fast and loose with the truth to suit her own means.
I don't trust her.
September 8, 2008
11:50 a.m.
Suggest removal
mkars writes:
fnts:
I as well feel that whatever party touches my life and the views that I am passionate about deserves my vote and my support. I heard what Obama stands for. I liked what he said. I liked what he said he would do. It affects me. It affects my children. I don't get you, maybe I lack intelligence or your words are too big for me but I will do my best.
Obama said he will bring jobs back to America, He said that he will make teachers more accountable and pay them accordingly (make the No Child Left behind act work) , he said he would make healthcare a priority. He said that we need more energy efficient fuels. These are the issues he talked about. These are the things he said he would do. I support that. Politicians talk a big game and some never follow through but some do. I just think it's time for a change and as Dan said I don't think it really matters if there is an R or a D it should matter who will be able to get the job done. Who is ready for Change? I support Obama at this point. Yes, I do. But I am not ignorant in that I won't do my homework. Lorraine, it may cost the tax payers money on that bailout but do you have any other suggestions? Oh, how about all those big companies pitch in their millions. Something big is going to have to happen. Those rich people are going to have to bite the bullet on this. It's the only way it will get fixed. Something big.
September 8, 2008
12:36 p.m.
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zivo24 writes:
Mkars,
Your astute comments reminded me of something.
John McCain had alot to say about education and teachers in his acceptance speech last Thursday.
My question is what does a man who barely graduated from a private, elite prep school and only got into the US Naval Academy because of his family connections and then graduated 894th out of 899 students...have to contribute to the subject of education?
He had the best educations money could buy handed to him on a silver plate and he didn't appreciate any of it enough to apply himself and get good grades.
He even recieved a place in the US Naval Academy due to family connections that should have gone to someone who actually worked for it. Once there, his discipline issues..which are documented in his transcripts..played a huge role in his low class standing.
So, what does someone who had so little regard for his own education have to contribute to the topic...other than pandering the wealthy and elite of his party by saying that as president he would make to create more tax loopholes for them so they could send their kids to private schools?
So
September 8, 2008
12:57 p.m.
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Uno writes:
Zivo is full of hate...and some other stuff.
September 8, 2008
1:02 p.m.
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fntsymtn writes:
mkars:
It sounds like you have good personal reasons for voting for Obama, and it is good to hear that you are voting for Obama because you like what you hear from him rather than because he's not McCain or "more of Bush" or not a republican.
You said that my calling freethought a coward was audacious (my word) because I am not letting him/her run from establishing a position on the "issues" he/she identified. I don't see holding one accountable to equal standards as audacious. I clearly stated my views on the "issues" freethought ran from.
You railed on Sarah Palin for not knowing what the Vice President's job is, yet you do not know about the job yourself. She is very inexperienced when it comes to politics as demonstrated by her comments and her credentials, but berating her for something as simple as knowing the responsibilities of the Vice President -- which any person with a web browser can find out -- when you don't know it either, is audacious.
Challenging Sarah Palin on her views regarding parental responsibility, when you have ample personal experience and knowledge, is reasonable.
September 8, 2008
1:45 p.m.
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Footballmom writes:
As a mom, supporting your child is the first priority. Whether they are in trouble or not. I was a mom at 16 and I don't know what I would have done without the love and support of my mother. Unfortunately, when focus is on only teen marriage statistics, things look pretty grim. Marriage is two people working hard to love, cherish and honor each other. That can sometimes be a challenge whether you are 17 or 45. No matter what the age, marriage is a risk, and it is each persons choice whether it is a chance worth taking. I now have been HAPPILY married for 17 years and made it past the statics of life.
September 8, 2008
2:08 p.m.
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mkars writes:
fnts
I did not "rally" on the fact that she questioned the position. I simply made a comment. I would not be a dr if I didn't know what the job entailed or what I was in for. Nor would I go to a dr if they couldn't tell me what they did for a living. It doesn't take me being a doctor to be able to question it or at the very least comment on it. I thought calling them a coward was harsh because I feel your line of questioning causes a defensive reaction. I think it's a matter of agreeing to disagree. Again, I stand by what I heard and how it affects my life. You can hold someone accountable all you want to but it doesn't mean that they will take responsibility for their actions/comments. I don't think it makes them a coward I think it's lack of ability to explain their position. Call it ignorance but to me coward would be to make the comment and change their mind, not having the confidence to defend thier stance. That to me is a coward and I did not feel that's what they did. The comment they made was clear how they stood.
Zivo, nice insight.
September 8, 2008
2:09 p.m.
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fntsymtn writes:
Hey, DenverDan, did it occur to you that what Obama is saying he intends to do frightens some voters and that is why they are not voting for him? I realize that you are very pro-Obama, but it is possible, that not everyone agrees with Obama's plan. Disagreeing with a candidate does not mean you endorse the policies of a previous administration. There will be other candidates on the ballot this year, you are not required to vote for more of the same with the republican and democrat candidates this November.
September 8, 2008
2:18 p.m.
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Ashley writes:
Trinidad, you are welcome to believe whatever you wish. But I'd like to point out that the pro-choice position does not deny you or those who believe as you do the right to make your own decision. If you choose to raise a child you conceived, that's your business and I wish you well. However, if the pro-lifers have their way, I would not be granted that same courtesy. You would deny me the right to make a decision that will impact me for at least the next 18 years of my life, simply because you hold in higher value the life of a person not yet born than the life of one who already exists -- me. Furthermore, I strongly resent your implication that because you believe in a holy book, I and mine ought to do the same. This country was founded on the principle of religious freedom -- and not just the choice of which church to attend, but also the choice to not attend any church. What, I wonder, would you base your belief in anti-abortionism in if you didn't have that book upon which to fall on?
Again, you can (and should) believe what you want to. Just don't tell me what I should believe.
September 8, 2008
2:25 p.m.
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fntsymtn writes:
mkars ... you called Sarah Palin "white trash" partly because she doesn't know what the Vice President does ... I would call that railing.
From Merriam Webster Online: rail -- transitive verb -- to revile or scold in harsh, insolent, or abusive language
Unfortunately, freethought did not present his/her position on anything today but simply asked questions about other people's positions. Asking questions about someone's position, or attacking someone because of their position is not stating your own position. It is merely stating that you question or disagree with someone else's position. Freethought has avoided the questions posed by me, and others, because he/she is afraid to defend his/her own position. That is cowardice.
Also from Merriam Webster online: coward -- noun, adjective -- one who shows disgraceful fear or timidity
September 8, 2008
2:42 p.m.
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mkars writes:
fntsy
You're too much. I don't believe I scolded or reviled. I, again ,made the comment. Your ability to see past certain things is amazing. Personally, I judged her by calling her white trash, and I meant it. Calling someone a coward for not answering questions you prompted is railing to me. I suppose when your line of questioning causes someone to be timid or fearful they would be a coward so hey... way to go, good job on that.
Looking at the bigger picture though, would you say that you would be a financial advisor and then go hmmmm.... I wonder what they do? Anyone who does that is just simply ignorant as they come across.
September 8, 2008
2:52 p.m.
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Macita183 writes:
The thing that's different with a lot of the couples that have been together for 50 plus years is they did not get married due to the fact they had a kid on the way. I know several people who got married straight out of high school due to a pregnancy and not one of them is still married.
September 8, 2008
3 p.m.
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fntsymtn writes:
mkars
I wasn't calling you a coward, and freethought is very quick to jump on others but runs and hides when challenged ... cowardice. Yes, I am railing on freethought for his/her cowardice regarding my direct questions to him/her about his/her postings today (and nearly everyday). And if by questioning freethought, I can rid these boards of his/her meaningless drivel, yes ... way to go, good job on that ... I deserve a pat on the back!
I agree with you that someone who is actively pursuing a particular career, or job within their career, should do a little research before making such a pursuit. The problem I see here is that you are insinuating that Sarah Palin actively pursued John McCain to be his VP pick. I have seen no evidence that she did that, so your analogies do not exactly fit here. You are suggesting that a person should know a little about a job before applying for it, and I agree with you, but Sarah Palin didn't apply for the job of Vice President, she was chosen.
Calling someone "white trash" is not just a passing comment, you intended to communicate your dislike for Sarah Palin using the most abusive language you could come up with at the time.
Language is the only device we have to communicate with each other on these boards, and it is critical that we have a common bases (definitions) within the language to alleviate misunderstandings. My use of the words rail and coward are completely accurate within the scope of the English language and within the scope of the comments on this article today.
September 8, 2008
3:36 p.m.
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zivo24 writes:
The point that I think alot of us are trying to make is that Sarah Palin's stands and statements have not always been supported by her actions and experiences.
Palin is opposed to any sex education that teaches anything other than abstinence.
Well, not only did this teaching not work on her own daughter, Bristol...but Palin, herself, was pregnant when she was married.
Todd Palin and Sarah Heath eloped and were married on August 29th, 1988.
Their first son, Track, was born on April 20, 1989 - 7 months and 20 days after they were married.
This would have been a premature birth requiring hospital care for days, if not weeks. There is no record of Track Palin being in the hospital he was born in for any period for premature care after his birth.
So, why is ok for Sarah Palin and her daughter to get knocked up before they're married...but she believes everyone else should have to abstain?
It's funny that so many conservatives wail about democrats creating a nanny-government when they sponsor or pass laws like smoking bans which have detrimental effects on people who don't smoke...but are conspicuously silent about the nannying we get from conservatives who want to control our reproductive choices, who we can marry, etc.
And Uno...I posted a message full of facts about John McCain's educational history..and you respond with one line insinuating that I am "full of hate..and other things".
Obviously you have nothing substantial or remotely constructive to add to this conversation...which I've noted many times is par for the course for you.
September 8, 2008
3:46 p.m.
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repgirl303 writes:
the economy is bad, gas & food are high, people losing their lives, houses, and jobs & this is important why?
September 8, 2008
4:17 p.m.
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4gColoNative writes:
Pointless article, RMN. Few care specifically about Bristol and her predicament. Her mother's beliefs and policies are the worrisome aspect.
After Sarah Palin writes the inevitable books and goes on her speaking tours, this family, the extended family, will be very well-off. These kids will escape the poverty correlation.
Of course, their money won't necessarily prevent divorce, substance abuse, physical abuse, emotional abuse, etc.
September 8, 2008
5:41 p.m.
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RedState writes:
Woo hoo. Shotguns for everyone. Hey I like Hockey Mom values.
September 8, 2008
7:27 p.m.
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diggtbks writes:
I wonder if the RMN writers leave their office with paper bags over their heads?
Maybe they share the same building as the National Enquirer?
September 8, 2008
9:23 p.m.
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trinidad writes:
Charlie b - How stupid would it be for a father to NOT want his wife/girlfriend to have an abortion?
Ashley - I'm not telling you or anybody else to not have an abortion. I just want to give a voice for the unborn child. I'm not telling you that you should have to have the same faith as I do or that you have to believe in the same things I do. I was refuting Freethoughts statement about the bible saying life begins at birth. YES, as a mother, I would be against abortion even, as you stated, if I didn't have a book to fall on. I resent the fact that you believe that just because I am a christian that I am telling you what to believe. I'm not better than you are nor am I a person without fault. It's not my place to judge anybody. So don't judge me.