BLOG: Up to 100,000 at Obama rally Sunday

By Daniel J. Chacon, Rocky Mountain News (Contact), Todd Hartman, Rocky Mountain News , Myung Oak Kim, Rocky Mountain News (Contact), John Rebchook, Rocky Mountain News (Contact), Ed Sealover, Rocky Mountain News , Jerd Smith, Rocky Mountain News , M.E. Sprengelmeyer, Rocky Mountain News (Contact)

Published October 24, 2008 at 12:05 a.m.
Updated October 26, 2008 at 4:39 p.m.

Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Barack Obama spoke this morning to an estimated crowd of 100,000 at Civic Center Park. He then traveled north to speak at a rally in Fort Collins. The Rocky has been blogging live from both events.

4:15 p.m.

Ken Quintana, director of security and safety services for Colorado State University, estimated the crowd at 45,250. Some Obama staffers had guessed that the crowd was as large as 80,000, but that number appears way too large now.

4:03 p.m.

Barack Obama is likely two-thirds of the way through his speech, but people are still streaming into The Oval on the Colorado State University campus.

This area was set to hold 25,000 people, but 40,000 to 50,000 were estimated to be in line outside this area. A high-level Democratic operative said that organizers have opened up extra areas to accommodate the throngs that have come here to see the Democratic presidential nominee.

Obama seems to be picking up on this as well. He’s just referenced the size and diversity of the crowd three times in the past two minutes.

4:00 p.m.

Any college student who's willing to serve the community should be able to attend school, Obama said.

"I’m going to make a deal with you," he told the crowd. "If you’re willing to commit to joining the military, to joining the Peace Corps, whatever way you decide to serve, then we are going to make sure you have the money to go to college no ifs ands or buts."

3:57 p.m.

As the crowd chants "Yes we can, yes we can," Obama hammers away at the need for new jobs and new sources of energy.

“As president I want to invest $15 billion a year in renewable sources of energy. To create five million new green jobs. The people of Colorado are doing it. We’re creating jobs that help us end our dependence on Middle East Dictators. I’ll put 2 million more Americans to work rebuilding roads and bridges, setting up a new electricity grid so renewable energy can get to people. If we can spend $10 billion a month rebuilding Iraq we can spend some money rebuilding America."

3:50 p.m.

Barack Obama played to the younger crowd this past weekend, bringing in such entertainment-industry upstarts as rocker Ben Harper and actor Zach Braff to stump for him.

Are you older and don’t really care what those young whipper-snappers think? Don’t worry. Your star is now on the way.

Actor and 53-year-old Kevin Costner, star of “Field of Dreams” and “Dances with Wolves,” will speak at Colorado College’s Worner Center at 4 p.m. tomorrow to rally people to go out and vote for the Democratic presidential candidate, Obama’s campaign just announced. OK, so he may attract a large crowd of college kids to the event, but you can go too.

Then, Costner will rally campaign volunteers in Colorado Springs and Castle Rock at sign-making parties. And he’ll finish the day at a Women for Obama Meet-and-Greet in Lakewood.

3:42 p.m.

Sure, Barack Obama can tout his endorsement by former Secretary of Defense Colin Powell. But a supporter selling buttons outside the Obama event is touting his backing by a group of people who are even more well-liked than Powell: The Peanuts Gang.

One button being hocked by Mike Kellogg read “Kids for Obama” and features Charlie Brown, Snoopy and friends smiling out at you. Another reads “Barack to the Future” in the same font as the 1980s movie “Back to the Future.”

The most popular button, said Kellogg, who just moved to Colorado from Michigan about a month ago, is the one that reads “Obama ’08 Change” and features the pictures of both Obama and former President John F. Kennedy. “Everybody’s positive,” said Kellogg of the people buying his $5 pins.

Some people are both positive and penny-pinchers. A total of 24 people over three hours, most of them who looked like college students, asked Kellogg if the pins were free and left when told they weren’t, he said.

3:35 p.m.

About 15 fans of Republican presidential candidate John McCain and GOP Senate nominee Bob Schaffer stood on a busy street corner about a half-mile away from the event cheering on their candidates. But these weren’t just any supporters.

The majority of the crowd originated from elsewhere in the world. The Netherlands was heavily represented, and Romanian and Israeli accents were evident in the crowd too.

About half of the former foreigners are now U.S. citizens, and the rest said they are going through the process to become Americans. But they all shared one thing in common: They came to the U.S. to get away from socialism and are scared that Barack Obama’s policies represent the socialism they saw in their former homes.

Martin Boomstoppel, a sales representative in the Ft. Collins area, noted that he paid 52 percent income tax in the Netherlands and pays just 28 percent in the United States. After listening to Obama’s speeches, he is scared that he will soon be paying again like he was in Europe.

"We’ve lived in socialism. We know what it’s like,” said Boomstoppel, who officially will apply for citizenship next year, his fifth year in the country. “Obama will do exactly the same thing.”

Juul Dijkstra, a student, agreed. And his wife, Noel, who is American-born, said that the pleas of people who have come here to escape the conditions they fear under an Obama administration, should have a special impact on voters.

“I guess America doesn’t realize how good we have it, especially with our freedom and with our taxes,” she said. “These are people who know socialism, and they know Obama is heading us in that direction.”

3:15 p.m.

Some organizers have estimated that the crowd will be at 40,000, but it is very, very slow filing in here. The ticketed line to get in went four full blocks down from the entrance to this area in the center of campus and is moving with the speed of a elderly turtle. People who had showed up an hour before the event began – three hours before Obama was set to speak – jumped out of line after being told they may not make it in.

More than a thousand people are lined up on Laurel Avenue, which is about a half-block behind the stage where Obama will speak. They have been there for several hours too, setting out camping chairs and munching on sandwiches.

Asked why they didn’t try to get in, most said they can hear Obama perfectly fine at this location and didn’t want to have to contend with the crowds going in. One woman replied simply: “We’re lazy.”

3:10 p.m.

Not everyone in Fort Collins on Sunday afternoon is a fan of Sen. Barack Obama.

Gheorghe L. Cormos, 21, a part-time Colorado State University student, paraded around the campus carrying a sign that said "No socialist. No Obama."

He said he was born in Romania, saw the impacts of socialist government, and he sees Obama's campaign the same way.

"I'm here to protest Obama and the move to the left that he represents," Cormos said.

While he was hard-pressed to come up with issues that make Obama more to the left of other Democrats, he said, "No one has talked about 'sharing the wealth'" like Obama did recently in a conversation with "Joe the Plumber," an average voter in Ohio.

"He gets people motivated, but look at the guy's record," Cormos said.

His friend, Hannah Poltzer, 19, of Fort Collins, said it was unfair for people to accuse Obama's critics of having ugly motives. "If you don't vote for him, it's like you're a racist," she said.

Poltzer carried a sign reading: "Hey, Obama, why don't you share your wealth, because I want to keep mine."

3:08 p.m.

These events are not just a chance for presidential candidates to pitch their message to thousands of people who already would walk through fire to vote for them. They also are an opportunity for down-ballot candidates to introduce themselves to voters who might not be following their contests as closely.

Such was the case with the opening act of the rally, Democratic 4th Congressional District candidate Betsy Markey. Locked in a tight battle with Republican congresswoman Marilyn Musgrave, Markey told the crowd that she is running to be a change, mirroring the Obama campaign message.

Her specific change goals include an increase in the number of people with health insurance and efforts to rein in the rising cost of education, both themes that play well here on the Colorado State University campus. And we have a right to demand a new-energy economy and “a new economy for our children,” she said.

“Change is not just a word this year. It’s an anthem,” Markey said.

Markey also draws boos – but only because she brings up the name of her opponent.

3:01 p.m.

Gov. Bill Ritter warms the crowd up for Obama by touting him as the only candidate in this presidential race with ideas about how to return investment to America through colleges.

The Democratic governor, who also warmed up for Obama on the last night of the Democratic National Convention, calls the Illinois senator “the explanation point on the biggest idea in America. That idea: In this country, you can come from anywhere with any story,” Ritter said. He added that if you work hard enough, “you can someday be president of the United States.”

And as long as he’s on stage before about 7,000 people, he also plugs Amendment 58, his proposal to cut a tax break for oil companies in Colorado and put the majority of the revenues toward college scholarships

1:37 p.m.

Gerson Hernandez Castillo donned a Hillary Clinton mask to the Barack Obama rally in Civic Center to try to get the attention of the Democratic presidential nominee.

“I wanted Obama to say, ‘Hey, Hillary,’ or something like that,” said Hernandez Castillo, 19.

Instead, Obama gave him a weird look, he said.

Hernandez Castillo said he enjoyed Obama’s speech, although he couldn’t point to one specific thing in the speech that he enjoyed.

Hernandez Castillo said he plans to vote for Chuck Baldwin of the Constitution Party for president, but he attended today’s rally to see why people are so enthusiastic about Obama.

“I wanted to see if I did, in fact, experience that uplifting spirit,” he said, adding that Obama’s words were moving.

He said he understands why regular people are drawn to Obama.

“He’s very much like them,” he said. “He was very humble.”

Hernandez Castillo, a San Diego native who grew up in a Republican household, said he would have voted for Obama had Obama spoken up against the $700 billion economic bailout.

12:55 p.m.

Sarah Moore emerged from the Barack Obama rally at Civic Center with a huge smile on her face.

“I just love him,” said Moore, a student at the University of Denver. “He brings such a change for the future.”

Moore said Obama’s promise to fix problems in the health care system resonated with her because her mom, Angela, has multiple sclerosis.

“I see the struggles that she’s gone through,” she said.

Obama cares about the middle class and people who are struggling, she said.

Angela Moore, 45, said her daughter has been a die-hard Obama supporter even before he announced that he was running for president.

“She’s the one who talked me into” supporting Obama, Angela Moore said.

“She was for Hillary Clinton,” Sarah Moore said of her mother.

12:51 p.m.

Several hours before Obama was scheduled to reach Fort Collins, he made a statement here – because local Democrats put words in his mouth.

“Vote all the way down your ballot,” said the cartoon bubble coming out of the mouth of a cardboard cut-out of Obama that was stationed outside the Larimer County Democratic Party offices.

Obama's scheduled visit up north on Sunday was all about coat-tails.

Fort Collins is in the 4th Congressional District, where Democrat Betsy Markey is locked in an intense, increasingly bitter battle to unseat three-term Republican Rep. Marilyn Musgrave.

Meanwhile, Democratic U.S. Senate contender, Rep. Mark Udall, has hopes of winning more votes in Republican-leaning Larimer County in his race against Republican former congressman Bob Schaffer. And Democrats in lower-profile races also could use some coat-tails effect here, given the GOP's voter registration edge in this county.

William Russell, 53, a Fort Collins carpenter who serves as the local party’s 2nd Vice Chair, said there’s a real worry that fellow Democrats will have little to show for the Obama phenomenon if all these new voters Obama has inspired vote for him and then skip the rest of the contests on the ballot.

“Our job is difficult because a lot of people are enamored emotionally with Obama without thinking through all the candidates” in other contests, Russell said.

Among other races, they worry about two Larimer County commissioner races, state House and Senate contests. In the last presidential election year, 2004, 146,436 Larimer County residents voted in the presidential contest, giving President Bush a slight edge, but about 19,000 fewer people voted in one of the commissioner races.

“Undervote scares us,” Russell said. “This is a long and difficult ballot. We’re afraid that inexperienced voters might not see the value of voting down the ballot.”

So on Sunday, local Democrats worked the crowds at Colorado State University, handing out little, blue lists of other local candidates folks could support as long as they were turning out to vote for Obama.

The message to wide-eyed Obama fans: “Give Obama the team he needs.”

“Coat-tails are not born by immaculate conception,” Russell explained. “Barack’s message is so overpowering, it’s hard to get the little candidates any attention at all.”

12:37 p.m.

Obama closes with one more appeal to get out the vote: "I ask you to knock on some doors, make some calls, talk to your neighbors, and give me your vote. ... And if you stand with me in nine days, I promise you – we will win Colorado, we will win this election."

12:34 p.m.

As Obama neared the end of his speech, he took a not-so-subtle jab at Republican presidential candidate Sarah Palin, who has described some parts of the country as "real America."

"There are no real or fake parts of this country. We are not separated by the pro-America and anti-America parts of this nation – we all love this country, no matter where we live or where we come from. There are patriots who supported this war in Iraq and patriots who opposed it; patriots who believe in Democratic policies and those who believe in Republican policies. The men and women from Colorado and all across America who serve on our battlefields may be Democrats and Republicans and independents, but they have fought together and bled together and some died together under the same proud flag. They have not served a Red America or a Blue America – they have served the United States of America.

“We have always been at our best when we’ve been called on to look past our differences and come together as one nation, as one people; leadership that rallied this entire country to a common purpose – to a higher purpose. And I am running for president of the United States of America because that is the country we need to be right now. ...

“This country and the dream it represents are being tested in a way that we haven’t seen in nearly a century. And future generations will judge ours by how we respond to this test. Will they say that this was a time when America lost its way? When it lost its purpose? When it lost its nerve?

“Or will they say that this was another one of those moments when America rose up? That we battled back from adversity by recognizing that common stake that we have in each other’s success?

“This is one of those moments. I realize you’re cynical and fed up with politics. I understand that you’re disappointed and even angry with your leaders. You have every right to be. But despite all of this, I ask of you what’s been asked throughout this campaign, what's been asked of the American people throughout our history. I ask you to believe – to believe in yourselves, in each other, and in the future we can build together. ...

12:33 p.m.

Denver police are estimating rally attendance at more than 100,000 people.

That could put today’s crowd here in Denver at the largest ever for an Obama event in the United States. The crowd in St. Louis, which had been the largest, was comprised of about 100,000 people.

Civic Center holds just 34,000 people, but the crowd packed the streets surrounding it.

12:29 p.m.

“As president, I'm finally going to take on this health care system ... This issue is personal for me. My mother died of ovarian cancer at the age of 53, and I’ll never forget how she spent the final months of her life lying in a hospital bed, fighting with her insurance company because they claimed that her cancer was a pre-existing condition and didn’t want to pay for treatment. If I am president, I will make sure those insurance companies can never do that again.

“Like George Bush, John McCain wants to tax your health care benefits for the first time in history and let insurance companies keep discriminating against people who need health care the most. It’s the same, failed, insurance company first/your family last health care policy – and we’re going to change it.

“My health care plan will make sure insurance companies can’t discriminate against those who are sick and need care most. If you have health insurance, the only thing that will change under my plan is that we will lower premiums. If you don’t have health insurance, you’ll be able to get the same kind of health insurance that members of Congress get for themselves. And we’ll invest in preventative care and new technology to finally lower the cost of health care for families, businesses and the entire economy. That’s the change we need. That's the kind of change I'll bring about as president of the United States.

“And if I’m president, we’ll give every child, everywhere the skills and the knowledge they need to compete with any worker, anywhere in the world. I will not allow countries to out-teach us today so they can out-compete us tomorrow. It And that means investing in early childhood education.”

12:27 p.m.

Obama turns to energy and infrastructure. “If I am president, I will invest $15 billion a year in renewable sources of energy to create 5 million new, green jobs over the next decade – jobs that pay well and can’t be outsourced; jobs building solar panels and wind turbines and fuel-efficient cars; jobs that will help us end our dependence on oil from Middle East dictators.

“I’ll also put 2 million more Americans to work rebuilding our crumbling roads, schools, and bridges – because it is time to build an American infrastructure for the 21st century. And if people ask how we’re going to pay for this, you tell them that if we can spend $10 billion a month in Iraq, we can spend some money to rebuild America.

“Yes we can. Si se puede.”

12:25 p.m.

“How many people make less than a quarter of a million dollars a year? Let me see hands ... That's more than early voting. ... You won’t see your taxes increase one single dime. Not your payroll taxes, not your income taxes, not your capital gains taxes – nothing. That is my commitment to you.

“For the last eight years, we have tried it John McCain’s way. We have tried it George Bush’s way. We’ve given more and more to those with the most and hoped that prosperity would trickle down to everyone else. And guess what? It didn’t. So it’s time to try something new. It’s time to grow this economy by investing in the middle class again.”

12:23 p.m.

“My opponent and I are both proposing tax cuts. The difference is, he wants to give a $700,000 tax cut to the average Fortune 500 CEO. I want to put a middle class tax cut in the pockets of 95 percent of workers and their families. My opponent doesn’t want you to know this, but under my plan, tax rates will actually be less than they were under Ronald Reagan.

“It’s true that I want to roll back the Bush tax cuts on the wealthiest Americans. I want to go back to the rate they paid under Bill Clinton. And as a matter of fact they were doing fine under Bill Clinton. ... Now, John McCain calls that socialism. What he forgets is that just a few years ago, he himself said those Bush tax cuts were irresponsible. He said he couldn’t “in good conscience” support a tax cut where the benefits went to the wealthiest Americans at the expense of “middle class Americans who most need tax relief.” Well, John McCain was right then, and I am right now.

12:20 p.m.

“We need policies that grow our economy from the bottom-up, so that every American, everywhere, has the chance to get ahead. Not just the person who owns the factory, but the men and women who work on its floor.

Obama cites Henry Ford: "He was asked why he paid such good wages to his workers. He said, 'If I pay them good wages, they'll be able to buy my cars. ...

“I’ve proposed a new American jobs tax credit for each new employee that companies hire here in the United States over the next two years. I’ll stop giving tax breaks to companies that ship jobs overseas. We're going to invest in companies that create good jobs right here in Colorado, right here in Denver. We'll help small businesses get back on their feet by eliminating capital gains taxes and giving them emergency loans to keep their doors open and hire workers. We can create a jobs and growth fund to help states and local governments save 1 million jobs and pay for health care and education without having to raise your taxes.

“We’ll also act quickly to help people stay in their homes. We've got to help responsible homeowners refinance their mortgages on affordable terms ... and we should put in place a three-month moratorium on foreclosures to give folks the breathing room they need to get back on their feet ... I won’t let banks and lenders off the hook when it was their greed and irresponsibility that got us into this mess. We should not be bailing out Wall Street – we should be restoring opportunity on Main Street. And that will be my top priority when I take office as president.

12:18 p.m.

“We are the United States of America. We are a nation that’s faced down war and depression; great challenges and great threats. And at each and every moment, we have risen to meet these challenges – not as Democrats, not as Republicans, but as Americans - with resolve; with confidence. With that fundamental belief that here in America, our destiny is not written for us, but by us. That’s who we are, and that’s the country we need to be right now.

“But Colorado, it will take a new direction. It will take new leadership in Washington.

12:16 p.m.

“We know that we have to get spending under control in Washington so that we’re not mortgaging our children’s future under a mountain of debt. But for all of Senator McCain’s tough talk on spending, he voted for four out of the five Bush budgets that let things get totally out of control. That’s not change.

“We know that it’s time for new ideas and new leadership in the White House. But Senator McCain voted with President Bush 90 percent of the time over the last eight years. Just the other day, George Bush returned the favor and voted early for John McCain. Well, Colorado, you can vote early too. And you can finally put an end to the Bush-McCain philosophy. You can vote for a new direction for our country. You can vote for change, that's what this whole election is about.

“We know what’s coming from the McCain campaign over the next nine days, because it’s the same kind of politics that we’ve seen over the last eight years. It’s a politics that is more about tearing your opponent down then lifting this country up. Well, listen, I can take nine more days of John McCain’s attacks, but the American people can’t take four more years of the same failed policies and the same failed politics. We’re not going to let George Bush pass the torch to John McCain. It’s time for change. And that’s why I’m running for president of the United States. And that's why you're here today.”

12:17 p.m.

Is Barack Obama magnetic?

As Obama speaks, people are leaning toward Obama's direction over the railing of the fences that are being used for crowd control.

Dozens of other people in the crowd are holding their camera phones and video cameras high to record Obama's every word.

When Obama makes a point that resonates with the crowd, supporters immediately start to flash their blue and white "Change we need" campaign signs.

12:14 p.m.

Obama, criticizing the nasty campaigning late in the race: "The other day, he took it to a whole new level. He said that I was like George W. Bush. You can’t make this stuff up. In what may be the strangest twist of all, Senator McCain said that I would somehow continue the Bush economic policies.

“But then, just this morning, Senator McCain said that he and President Bush – “share a common philosophy.” That’s right, Colorado. I guess that was John McCain finally giving us a little straight talk and owning up to the fact that he and George Bush actually have a whole lot in common.

“Well, we know what the Bush-McCain philosophy looks like. It’s a philosophy that says we should give more and more to folks at the top and hope that it trickles down. It’s a philosophy that gives tax breaks to wealthy CEOs and to corporations that ship jobs overseas while hundreds of thousands of jobs are disappearing here at home. It’s a philosophy that justifies spending $10 billion a month in Iraq while the Iraqi government sits on a huge surplus and our economy is in crisis.”

12:12 p.m.

Obama dives into his speech: "This is a moment of great uncertainty for America. The economic crisis we face is the worst since the Great Depression. Businesses large and small are finding it impossible to get loans, which means they can’t buy new equipment, or hire new workers, or even make payroll for the workers they have."

We’ve lost more than 750,000 jobs this year. Wages are lower than they’ve been in a decade, at a time when the cost of health care and college have never been higher. It’s getting harder and harder to make the mortgage, or fill up your gas tank, or even keep the electricity on at the end of the month. At this rate, the question isn’t just “are you better off than you were four years ago?” It’s “Are you better off than you were four weeks ago?”

12:11 p.m.

"We're going to have to work; we are going to have to struggle ... We cannot let up and I know you will not let up because you want change in America."

12:10 p.m.

Obama urges crowd to vote early; he thanks people for their concern about the health of his grandmother.

12:09 p.m.

“John Hickenlooper reminds me he's another skinny guy with a funny name.”

12:05 p.m.

Obama takes to the stage. Civic Center park crowd roars.

"Hello Denver."

"Do you ever have small crowds in Denver? Who are those folks way at the top of the capitol over there? What a beautiful setting. What a gorgeous day. It's good to be back in Denver."

Obama recognizes all of Colorado's big name Democratic politicos, such as Gov. Bill Ritter, U.S. Reps. Mark Udall and Diana DeGette and U.S. Sen. Ken Salazar.

11:47 a.m.

Obama motorcade comes east on Colfax Avenue near the park. He should be speaking soon.

11:47 a.m.

Denver police say Civic Center Park holds 34,000 people and it’s nearly full. Some parts of the park are closed off and many people have gathered around the edges. Police won’t have an official crowd size until after the event this morning.

11:45 a.m.

Laurna Kaatz and Jeff Tejral don't have the best seats in the house.

The couple, who are standing behind one of the big white media tents, is looking for an opening through the trees to see Barack Obama when he takes the stage.

But even if they don't get to see Obama, the City Park residents said they won't be too disappointed.

"We are very excited to come out and see all of this, this historic event that's taking place," said Kaatz, 29. "We wanted to be part of it."

11:45 a.m.

Law enforcement has black-clad members atop the City and County building, watching for any problems below.

11:38 a.m.

Mark Udall, candidate for U.S. Senate from Colorado, addresses the crowd. "Let me utter two really sweet words - President Obama. Will that send a message to the world or what?"

Udall asks people to vote early so that on Election Day, tou can talk to your neighbors, make phone calls, you can canvass. "We are on the verge of making history, but we can't relax. We have to push right through that tape."

Udall says he looks out over the park crowd and sees patriots. "You know what a patriot is? Thomas Jefferson put it best: 'A patriot lovs his country, not only for what it is, but what it can be. Let's make it everything it can be."

11:34 a.m.

Salazar tries to get the crowd fired up with a Mark Udall chant, encouraging them to elect him as the next senator from Colorado.

11:32 a.m.

Salazar warns the crowd not to believe the polls and get lulled into believing Obama has the election wrapped up. "There's only one poll that matters, the one taken Nov. 4," Salazar says.

11:30 a.m.

Interstate 25 southbound was shut down at the Interstate 70 interchange in preparation for Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Barack Obama’s arrival. Several streets around the Civic Center, including Broadway going west into the city, were closed as well. There is no business access.

11:30 a.m.

The crowd of thousands is crammed into Civic Center in anticipation of Barack Obama's appearance later this morning.

Several speakers on the stage in front of the City and County Building have said they can see people all the way to the steps of the state Capitol.

People have climbed into the trees and onto the lampposts in Civic Center, probably to get a better view of the Democratic presidential nominee when he arrives.

On the south side of the McNichols building, people are holding giants cutouts about 10 feet tall that spell out "CO 4 CHANGE."

11:28 a.m.

Sen. Ken Salazar firing up the crowd, telling them Obama's rise shows that "no matter who you are, no matter where you are from, the American dream is a possibility for each and every one of you." Obama, he says, wants to "restore the greatness of America around the world."

11:20 a.m.

Gov. Bill Ritter tells the crowd "we need a record turnout to send Barack Obama to the White House." He says Obama "offers a different future" where health care and energy are concerned. "We need a transformational figure in order to give us a different energy future."

11:20 a.m.

Sebastian Cabeza is bummed out.

Cabeza, who lives in Boulder, is several months shy of turning 18 and being able to vote for Barack Obama in this election.

"It's super frustrating, but I volunteer so I do everything I can for him," he said. "Even though I can't vote, I can try to get people to vote for him."

Cabeza and his sister, Maria, 19, and their friends, Julia Emery, 18, and Kai Linden, 15, took the bus from Boulder to Denver this morning to see the Democratic presidential nominee.

"I have never, ever been into politics until him," Sebastian Cabeza said, referring to Obama.

"I don't even remember when Bush beat Gore," said 19-year-old Maria Cabeza.

The Cabeza siblings said their parents are big Obama supporters, too.

"We have posters in our living room," Maria Cabeza said.

11:10 a.m.

Barack Obama’s plane has landed at Denver International Airport and the candidate is on his way to downtown Denver. His speech was scheduled to start at 11:30 a.m., but may be delayed a short time as crowds fill Civic Center.

10:59 a.m.

Adams County resident Daryl Richardson drove to Denver this morning for a chance to see Barack Obama.

Little did he know that he's going to get a chance to see Obama up close.

Richardson, 39, said he was waiting in line when he and his friends were approached by an Obama volunteer and asked if they wanted to be part of the stage presence.

"We wanted to give her a big hug," he said.

Richardson said he plans to vote for Obama tomorrow.

"He just seems to be, not to quote him, but the change we need," he said. "He has a clear vision of what he wants to do as opposed to the other party."

Richardson said the GOP has "good ideas," but they're not enough to make a "significant difference."

10:28 a.m.

The energy among the thousands of people who have already packed into Civic Center in anticipation of Barack Obama's visit is electric.

"He's got tremendous support here in Colorado," said 51-year-old Emelda Allen, a California native who has lived in Denver for a little over a year.

"Look at all these people," she said.

Allen said she got up at 8:30 a.m. and stood in line for about an hour to get into the rally.

Allen said she's excited to see and hear Obama.

"He's for the people and for change, and we need that," she said.

10:20 a.m.

It pays to be the assistant majority leader of the Colorado House Democrats.

Rep. Terrance D. Carroll and a small entourage cut through a long line to get into today's rally.

Carroll, who represents House District 7, said the rally shows that most Coloradans love Obama.

"You can tell by looking out here," he said, referring to the huge crowd.

Plus, "you can tell by looking at the polls," he said. Carroll said he expects to hear Obama talk about what he would do to address the ailing economy as well as his "continued message of hope and optimism."

Carroll said he voted last Sunday.

"I voted for Barack Obama," he said. "And Terrance Carroll."

10:10 a.m.

The line to get into Civic Center stretches back to at least Colfax and Cherokee. From their it travels up Colfax, south onto Broadway, then west on 13th, near the new Art Museum wing, and then into the courtyard between the library and the museum. Then, the line goes into the amphitheater, where security screening is set up. Police officers at Bannock and Colfax report no problems just “a lot of people.”

10:05 a.m.

Obama campaign workers and volunteers are everywhere, handing out paperwork that asks people for basic information about themselves. Why? So they can call them and add to their volunteer base.

“We’re not supposed to give our names,” said one woman, laughing as she talked to a reporter. Nonetheless, asked about enthusiasm for volunteer work: “It’s way up,” she said. And it appeared to be so. Many folks were seen taking the paperwork and filling it out. One woman asked a reporter for a pen, but it was his only pen, so he couldn’t assist.

Building volunteers for election day and pushing early voting are the key efforts campaign workers are making today, the volunteer said.

9:51 a.m.

For 52-year-old Tina Heckert and her daughter, Jody Danforth, 31, it’s about jobs. They’re lined up outside Civic Center to support Obama because they believe he will do more to create jobs in a sinking economy.

They like his emphasis on trying to reduce the jobs that are “sent overseas,” his talk of “strengthening communities” and they believe he’ll do more to foster the growth of green energy jobs.

“I was with him from the beginning,” said Danforth, visiting her mom from Santa Rosa, Calif. Chimed in mom: “I was never for Hillary.”

They were thrilled with the turnout, even though they probably still had a 40-minute wait to get through security screening. They’d been in line 45 minutes.

“It’s unbelievable,” Danforth said, of the crowd.

9:47 a.m.

Kiersten and Joseph Coplans filled out their ballots Saturday night and dropped them off in a box in front of the Wellington Webb building this morning, before walking across Colfax Avenue to the rally.

“This is awesome,” Joseph said. “Voting and then attending the rally turns this into a real experience.”

When told that early voting opens nearby at 11 a.m., he said that he will encourage registered Denver residents to walk across the street and vote when the rally ends.

9:41 a.m.

Will the young voters out here today, and so many others who say they back Obama, really turn out to vote? It’s an historically unreliable voting bloc, but Carmen Sepulveda of Denver, and 22 years old, believes this is the time.

She worked to get out the vote for John Kerry’s campaign in 2004, and thought they had a motivated bloc then, but it didn’t turn out to be enough. This time, she believes, things will go differently.

“Problem was, Kerry was not a very strong candidate,” Sepulveda said. The Obama movement is far more dynamic, and “I think, overall, there’s better organization” inside the Obama campaign.

Sepulveda was thrilled to see what appears to be a huge turnout this morning. “It’s great to see so many people out here who support change,” she said.

9:32 a.m.

There appear to 15 security screening stations, though most people are being funneled through 12 of them. Security personnel and volunteers are asking everyone in line to remove their Obama buttons when they go through security, so as not to set off metal detectors. The line is moving at a healthy clip now.

9:28 a.m.

A lone protester near the front of the line is holding a sign: “Obama’s new tax plan is welfare.” He’s had some words with people in line, and he and another fellow got in each other’s face, but folks are mostly smiling at the spectacle.

9:20 a.m.

Betthany Andrews, 23, of Denver arrived at Civic Center Park at 5 a.m., one of the first 100 or so in line. She came early “just to take it all in,: she said. She took photos as crowds gathered.

“People are excited – you can fill the energy in the air,” Andrews said.

Asked what motivated her to get here so early, “Oh my God (Obama’s) my hero,” she said. “He and Michelle both.”

She had to cut her interview short as the line surged forward as officials prepared to let people come into the park.

9:15 a.m.

Folks are huddling together to stay warm as a brisk fall breeze keeps the blood pumping this morning.

Lia Brietzle, 48, of Park Hill, made it to the park around 7 a.m. Why so early, in chilly weather? Easy, she said: “This is history in the making.”

9:06 a.m.

A massive line now stretches from the entrance to the park, near the Denver Public Library, around the backside of the Library, then along Broadway and down Colfax Ave. People are in high spirits despite what could be long walk into the event. Chants of ”Obama, Obama,” sporadically erupt from the crowd.

9 a.m.

Crowds are beginning to line up around Civic Center Park this morning in antiicipation of Barack Obama's appearance. A line has formed along Colfax Avenue awaiting opening of the park at 10 a.m. It stretches from about the corner of Colfax and Broadway back to almost Colfax and Bannock Street. A giant American flag is flying from a small crane inside the park.

EARLY VOTING

Election officials are beefing up operations at Denver's downtown early voting site in anticipation of a rush of voters attending the Barack Obama rally today.

Obama is scheduled to speak at 11:30 a.m. at Civic Center, across the street from the Webb Municipal Office Building, 201 W. Colfax Ave., where early voting will be available from 11 a.m. to 4 p.m. today.

Polls also will be open today during those hours at the Denver Elections Division, 3888 E. Mexico Ave., in southeast Denver.

City elections officials decided to add voting booths, staff and computers to the Webb building when they heard about the Obama visit, said spokesman Alton Dillard.

They haven't worked out details yet but anticipate a huge increase in voters because of the proximity to the campaign event.

Elections staff are also working with other city agencies to work out security clearance and other logistical issues.

Dillard said his office wasn't planning to alter early voting capacity Friday in connection with John McCain's visit or on Saturday because of Obama campaign marches to early voting sites. That's because there were 13 polling sites with longer hours those two days, he said.

Many larger counties offered Saturday voting hours, but Denver is the only county offering Sunday hours.

Early voting continues until Oct. 31.

TODAY

Sen. Barack Obama returns to Colorado today for two events.

Denver's Civic Center with public entrance on 14th Avenue between Bannock Street and Broadway

Gates open at 10 a.m.

Program begins at 11:30 a.m.

R.S.V.P. encouraged at co.barackobama.com

FORT COLLINS

The Oval, Colorado State University, Fort Collins. Public entrance at University Avenue and West Drive

Gates open at 1:30 p.m.

Program begins at 3:30 p.m.

R.S.V.P. at co.barackobama.com

VOTING

* When did early voting start?

Monday, Oct. 20. Hours vary by county. Some sites open at 7 a.m., and some open as late as 11 a.m.

* When does early voting end?

Oct. 31.

* More information: Go to govotecolorado.com, call 303-894-2200 or call your county clerk.

• October 24, 2008

  12:39 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  Robert5000 writes:

  America’s Next President

  Good by George and Richard. We will certainly miss you both a great deal, given the deep understanding and sound judgment you demonstrated in committing our country to an invasion and a very expensive protracted war in Iraq. And many thanks also for keeping a close regulatory eye on Wall Street and our mortgage lending and banking system during your 8 year watch. Sorry Bill and Hillary. Of course we really wanted to have you back again so that Bill could have another shot at some more action with interns in the oval office; and we will certainly miss not being able to hear all the details of such encounters. Too bad John and Sarah. We will always be deeply grateful to you, John, for so wisely putting the needs of our country above petty politics in choosing your running mate. But, Sarah, unfortunately it looks like we may never get the chance to fulfill our wildest dream of someday having President Palin lead the free world. On the other hand Barack Obama isn’t all that great, is he? He is merely an intelligent, articulate, and insightful 47 year old biracial man, a top of his class graduate of Harvard Law School and president of its Law Review, a former instructor of constitutional law for 12 years at the University of Chicago Law School, a 3 term Illinois State Senator and US Senator for the past 4 years, a Washington outsider with fresh ideas who wants to make significant changes in Washington. Come to think of it. Welcome Barack Obama!

• October 25, 2008

  9:12 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  reshas1 writes:

  I’m guessing “election officials” will have someone passing out ballots AT THE RALLY!!!! Maybe even helping voters mark the ballots!!! What the heck?-—why not save the voters the trouble....just have Obama’s campaign workers complete the ballots and deliver them to the election offices? Is this illegal? Or just appalling?

• October 25, 2008

  9:28 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  mtngrandpa writes:

  I cannot believe Colorado, with a Democratic Governor and Mayor would attempt to so blatantly cheat in this election. Is this the payback to the Democratic Party for allowing the convention to be here in Denver?

  Why do you need to cheat? Can't you win without it?

  You can't win an honest election anymore since 2000, 2004 were lost because the Democratic Party picked poor candidates to run against George W Bush. Can't get a good candidate just cheat in the elections.

  Democrats deserve to lose because of the tactics they have use.

• October 26, 2008

  8:44 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  Oh_Wise_One writes:

  When Obambi's lips are moving, he's lying. All of you Kool-aid drinkers are hearing what you want to hear. When the fog clears, you will not be happy to find out you were fooled by his slick talking preacherspeak.

• October 26, 2008

  9:04 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  EXrepublican writes:

  This is the McCain everyone should know.

  1. The Real McCain 2: Watch as McCain's YouTube problem became his
  nightmare in the video that received over 4 million views.
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEtZlR...

  2. Less Jobs. More Wars: What is this 'Iraq war' charge on my bill?
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lh-T2i...

  3. John McCain vs. John McCain: Tell McCain to get off the Double Talk
  Express.
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioy90n...

  4. McCain's Spiritual Guide: The video that caused McCain to renounce
  Rev. Rod Parsley's bigoted endorsement.
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXZbIG...

  5. Why Won't McCain Sign the GI Bill? Presenting the most blatant
  hypocrisy of the McCain campaign.
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pK_9sI...
  
  6.fair questions for Mcain…
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OczmG...

  7. veterans on McCain
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdJUCU...

• October 26, 2008

  9:05 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  RS writes:

  So the nation is about to elect a President because the people doing the voting are expecting both a tax cut (even if they don't pay taxes) and increased government benefits, obviously paid for by others. This is EXACTLY the lack of principles that have created the current financial crisis! A previous president, Bill Clinton, promised middle-class tax cuts, then delivered middle class tax hikes. These tax hikes forced my mother into retirement when her marginal tax rate went to 65% at $32,000 a year in income (my father was receiving Social Security). My mother was a medical technician, a healthcare worker lost to the system due to extreme taxation. The economy is about to get destroyed, and all these people can do is figure a way to guarantee it by opening polling places around an Obama rally? Isn't this illegal electioneering?

• October 26, 2008

  9:05 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  SanctuaryCity writes:

  Looking at the crowds gathering, the people are holding out their bags thinking it is trick or treat. There are no treats today but the trick is you are going to pay more in taxes if your the middle class. I do see some in the pictures who don't pay takes who will get more welfare. The theme of the day is tax & spend. The only fear B.O. has is , if an educated group ever showed up that he could not B.S.

• October 26, 2008

  9:06 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  Nobama writes:

  Have you all seen the Obama ad where it's all about his youth with his "single Mom" and Grandparents? He talks about his "earliest memories" with his Grandpa and his Mom helping him with his "lessons". Lots of family photos, but, there's no mention of any father figure whatsoever. Apparently, we are to assume his Mom had a passing affair with a Black man and never knew anything about him. Well, what about his Father and his Stepfather? I guess Obama has no "early memories" of Lolo Soctoro, his Stepfather, with whom he lived in Indonesia, an Islamic Muslim country, from the age of 6 to 11. Or, maybe Obama has just suppressed those memories, and asks us to do the same. Is it really this easy to dupe the American public? I'm afraid it is.

• October 26, 2008

  9:07 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  Nobama writes:

  BARACK OBAMA

  Who IS he, really?

  Where and how did he spend his youth?
  What do we know about his activities during his college years?
  What is a community organizer?
  What is the reputation of Chicago politics?
  Who have his associates been?
  Who was his “spiritual mentor”?
  What were the fiscal, health, education and crime conditions in Chicago and Illinois during his tenure as State Senator?
  What has he accomplished as a Senator after almost 3 years in office?

  But, he is good looking, intelligent, and gives a great speech! That’s all that matters?

• October 26, 2008

  9:10 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  ghoax writes:

  a gathering of the misled, the Bush haters, the obstructionists, the socialists worshiping a marionette for the left wing of America. It's like going to church for them. It is a gathering of those who want to dismantle the United States and return to a world where the elite or royalty rule, for the common man has not the brains to govern himself. It's a gathering of the "entitled" .... So here we are today, watching those gather and rally behind a false messiah, who are willing to hand over our freedom, our security and our opportunity to elitist and environmental rulers for an 800 dollar tax break...and why, because they've been instructed to hate Bush, to hate Christianity and to gush about becoming like Denmark, never once questioning their anointed.

• October 26, 2008

  9:11 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  EXrepublican writes:

  RS,
  The Deregulation of financial markets is what caused the economy to destruct.

  republicans are arguing the same arguments that Hoover argued during the Great Depression.

  The regulations put in place during the 1930's kept us out of this financial mess until republican"leadership" ended them.

  this economy is a direct result of deregulation.

  Just the fact you trust and regurgitate republican propaganda, is proof you do not think for your self.

• October 26, 2008

  9:26 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  TheVentilator writes:

  Will there be loaves and fishes there?

• October 26, 2008

  9:28 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  Who_Me writes:

  Sure, race has nothing to do with it.
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nyvqhd...

• October 26, 2008

  9:38 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  speakthetruth writes:

  McSame only wishes he could draw a crowd like this! There's even news today that he may lose his home state! It's over, bye bye Johnny.

• October 26, 2008

  9:47 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  Nobama writes:

  What hypocrisy! In 2004, the news media was demanding to know whether George Bush attended all of his National Guard meetings more than 30 years before. It wasn’t enough that he had been awarded his Wings and had received an honorable discharge. But, now, the news media won’t even delve into Obama’s shady past. All that matters is that he graduated from Harvard with honors and was a “community organizer. It doesn’t matter how he spent his youth or his college days, or what behavior he may have demonstrated.

• October 26, 2008

  9:56 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  Nobama writes:

  EXrepublican writes:

  "The Deregulation of financial markets is what caused the economy to destruct."

  Instead, it was Senator Christopher Dodd and Congressman Barney Frank, both Democrats, who who refused Bush administration requests to set up a regulatory agency to watch over Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. Alan Greenspan warned them four years ago. So did the Chairman of the Council of Economic Advisers to the President. So did Bush's Secretary of the Treasury. These are facts. This financial crisis was completely preventable. The party that blocked any attempt to prevent it was the Democratic Party.

  The party that tried to prevent it was the Republican Party. Yet when Nancy Pelosi accused the Bush administration and Republican deregulation of causing the crisis, the press did not hold her accountable for her lie. Now let's follow the money right to the presidential candidate who is the number-two recipient of campaign contributions from Fannie Mae. That would be Barack Obama!

• October 26, 2008

  10:02 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  roadstar writes:

  It's appalling to me how many of those posting here have obviously not been checking out the hyperbole and smear tactics but prefer to just believe what they want to believe. They should try to get factual information and educate themselves. That goes for republicans AND democrats posting.

• October 26, 2008

  10:05 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  dilligaf writes:

  Did any of you clown republicans even watch any of those youtube's that Exrepublican posted? When are you going to stop punching on Obama and start defending the double talking idiot on your ticket? This man even flip flopped in one interview 11 minutes apart. Sorry your man is going down. And going down hard.

• October 26, 2008

  10:07 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  Nobama writes:

  roadstar writes:

  "It's appalling to me how many of those posting here have obviously not been checking out the hyperbole and smear tactics but prefer to just believe what they want to believe. They should try to get factual information and educate themselves. That goes for republicans AND democrats posting."

  Were you prepared to cite any particular "facts"?

• October 26, 2008

  10:14 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  dilligaf writes:

  Nobama
  HELLO!!!! If Greenspan warned them 4 years ago why didn't the Republican Congress and Republican President do something. I love getting on this board and seeing you show everyone how stupid you are. You make an a-- out of yourself every time you touch your keyboard.

• October 26, 2008

  10:20 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  commoncents writes:

  Die hard fans in every sport. I guess the good thing is this isn't the end of the world. The bad thing is that in 4 years we will be going through this same rhetoric on both sides. Hopefully Obama can get something done so that the hate rhetoric is toned down and it will just be who is the worst child molester again, or wether gay people can get married.

• October 26, 2008

  10:35 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  Dinty writes:

  dilligaf writes:

  "Nobama
  HELLO!!!! If Greenspan warned them 4 years ago why didn't the Republican Congress and Republican President do something."

  Did you not READ that post? Is your comphrension span limited to bumper stickers? Nobama clearly stated the role of Dodd and Frank in blocking the Republican proposed oversite. Do you wish to deny that with any factual evidence?

• October 26, 2008

  10:36 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  Uno writes:

  The communists are gathering to praise the ideology of Lenin, Marx, Mao and alike. I wonder if Bill Ayers will show in support of his friend and comrade to fight the evil capitalists.

• October 26, 2008

  10:36 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  Beau writes:

  Go check out the webcam. Doesn't look like an historic crowd to me.

• October 26, 2008

  10:37 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  dilligaf writes:

  Just read some of the things McSame said on Meet the Press. He threw Bush under the bus big time. Talking about saying anything to get elected. I can remember not only him but all of these republican supports above defending W. Now they all want to flip flop and throw him under the bus. This is getting fun to watch. I hate to see any animal suffer. But these idiots are on their knees pleading.

• October 26, 2008

  10:38 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  RS writes:

  Exrepublican:

  What Republican talking points? The Republicans and the Democrats have both been advocates of spending money we don't have, both in government and in the private sector. Obama is proposing refundable tax credits, McCain is proposing removing even more people then Bush did from the tax rolls simply because they can produce children. Either pay no taxes or get a check from the government adds up to the government not having revenue for increased spending - yet increased spending is also proposed by both candidates. Yes, the electorate is getting what they want - cash and benefits for themselves at the expense of others.

  As far as the more personal comment concerning my mother - simply historical fact. How do you think we can create a new "human right" to healthcare without enslaving the providers of that healthcare?

• October 26, 2008

  10:42 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  Nobama writes:

  dilligaf writes:

  Nobama
  "I love getting on this board and seeing you show everyone how stupid you are. You make an a-- out of yourself every time you touch your keyboard."

  Wow. What a clever reply. Actually, I'm not stupid, and I could prove it to any objective person. You seem to go off on a personal insult rant whenever you really don't have anything substantive to say, but you want to reply anyway. What's up with that? Do you just resort to that tactic when you see something you don't agree with? Or, are you just not capable of civil debate?

• October 26, 2008

  10:55 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  Dinty writes:

  I find this story very interesting. Apparently, the gist of this suit is not the issue, only the "standing" of the plaintiff and whether it is "too attenuated". (Look it up.) The judge is effectively saying it just doesn't matter, whether it's true or not!

  "A federal judge has dismissed a lawsuit challenging Barack Obama's qualifications to be President. Judge Surrick rejected the suit by Berg, who alleged that Obama was not a U.S. citizen and therefore ineligible for the presidency. Berg claimed that Obama is either a citizen of Kenya or became a citizen of Indonesia after he moved there as a boy, after his Mother married an Indonesian man. Internet-fueled conspiracy theories question whether Obama is a "natural-born citizen" as required by the Constitution for a presidential candidate. Surrick ruled that Berg lacked standing to bring the case, saying any harm from an allegedly ineligible candidate was "too vague and its effects too attenuated to confer standing on any and all voters."

• October 26, 2008

  11:03 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  freespeech34 writes:

  Obama the Messiah! Karl Marx would be proud!

• October 26, 2008

  11:12 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  dilligaf writes:

  Nobama

  Not with you. You go off on blaming any Democrat for all of our problems today. And all your Republicans are not to blame. All you do is rant about Obama but you have nothing to offer about the crooks in your own party. I will ask one more time. Did you watch any of the youtube's that Exrepublican posted. Know I ask can you defend that double talker?

• October 26, 2008

  11:18 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  KarlCheney writes:

  Bush is the worst president in US history, McCain could match it or even beat that. He shows nothing different than Bush, his entire campaign is about Obama and that he is a maverick and will change washington. Ya right!!! He says he knows how to get Bin Laden and he will get him, where has he been for the last 7 years? Is he only going to reveal this plan if he wins? This is a desperate man that will do and say anything to win. Palin is a joke, could you imagine if Biden acted this way, and whined about the "gotcha" media. McCain and Palin are a disaster and going down fast!!!

• October 26, 2008

  11:18 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  BenchBoss writes:

  Welcome to: TardTown
  Population: Uno

• October 26, 2008

  11:21 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  LeLo writes:

  Hey, Nobama, a civil debate about what? You spout idiocies everyday. Today's? "... like I guess Obama has no 'early memories' of Lolo Soctoro, his Stepfather, with whom he lived in Indonesia, an Islamic Muslim country, from the age of 6 to 11. Or, maybe Obama has just suppressed those memories, and asks us to do the same. Is it really this easy to dupe the American public?" Dupe the American public about what? That Obama is secretly an Islamic extremist planted by Jihadists to take over the country? I am sorry, but this kind of BS is not worthy of serious political discourse, not worthy of civil debate. It is contemptuous, which is why dilligaf holds you in contempt. You have earned it.

  The truth is, Nobama, there is no need to debate you. This election is done. McCain and his Repub cronies lose. Obama will finish with well over 300 electoral college votes, win in a landslide, and you know it. The Democratic party will have huge majorities in both houses of Congress, and you know it. Your whining, your ranting, your idiotic insinuations, will make no difference. You can keep getting madder and madder, making more and more ridiculous statements, and still your side comes out on the short end. Nothing to be done about it, Nobama. Deal with it.

  My suggestion is you start practicing. Go ahead, Nobama, say it. President Barack Hussein Obama. President Barack Hussein Obama. President Barack Hussein Obama. Has a nice ring to it, doesn't it? Get used to it. You'll be living it for years to come. The fat lady is warming up.

  "Turn out the lights, the party's over"

• October 26, 2008

  11:26 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  NoMoreFour writes:

  I am still stunned that we have such narrow minded and mean citizens in Colorado. I have watched comments for a couple of weeks and though it comes from both "sides" the subtle racism (I recognize it) and smears (unsubstantiated rumors) from republican supporters is disturbing, to say the least. I mean really, are we still talking ACORN, birth issues, etc.
  Please...argue on the issues...leave the personal attacks and smears out of it...here and in the campaign. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vagD-4...
  Is this the Colorado I know and love? I hope not…

• October 26, 2008

  11:27 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  enough321 writes:

  To the angry and fearful Anti-Obama posters here...it's really ok to vote for Obama. We don't blame you for all of the countries woes, just because you voted, twice, for George Bush, the worst President in history. We forgive you. Now you can let go of the certitude that destroyed our standing in the world, let go of the failed policies that would have been perpetuated by the soul-selling shell of a Maverick and instead of living in fear, you can finally believe in something, a stronger and greater America. A world leader, once again. Wont it be nice to be proud of your vote? Let go...it's ok....let go...breath deeply...calm now....let go...we welcome you...

• October 26, 2008

  11:37 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  victoria2dc writes:

  Where's the live link to the streaming video of the speech?

• October 26, 2008

  11:43 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  LeLo writes:

  Hey Uno, I ran into some of those commies just the other night. I was sitting on my back porch, smoking a bong (because everyone knows all Obama supporters smoke bongs, I read it on this forum just this week), and this mysterious black helicopter suddenly lands in my backyard. Now I had always doubted the existence of those black helicopters, but I couldn't deny them anymore, since one was landing right in front of me. Interestingly enough, my backyard is not big enough for a full-sized helicopter, and the commies must have know that in advance, because this was a mini-helicopter. Anyway, it landed, and sure enough, out hopped this whole squadron of commies. They were, of course, mini-commies, only a few feet tall, because that's all that would fit in a mini-helicopter. I asked them where the heck they were coming from, Russia or China? They said neither, as the Russians are no longer commies and the Chinese are really just totalitarian capitalists. No, they said they were from Venezuela, where everyone knows the real commies live nowadays. Then I asked them if they were invading, coming to take over my quiet little neighborhood. They said nah, they were just delivering my Obama yard sign.

• October 26, 2008

  11:51 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  Beau writes:

  If Obama is elected, a company that I know quite well in Colorado will have to lay off ten hard working employees. The new taxes he's going to establish will require it -- they make more than $250,000 a year, and they can't pay the taxes without laying off employees.

  You want to know which one? Surprise! It just might be yours.

  Vote for Obama. And hope that the fabulous goodies that he's promising to you will cover all the bills when you're unemployed.

• October 26, 2008

  11:58 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  fishoutawater writes:

  Did the Upper Class forget that they need a strong Middle Class in order to be econmically viable?

  When did Republicans loose sight of that fact? Trickle down, yeah trickle, but not all the way down. Republican administrations and the millions who foolheartedly vote against their own wishes, have finally exposed themselves.

  For example, McCain, a military veteran, has voted against Veterans consistantly, yet seeks their support and gets it from veterans who dont realize they are voting against their own wishes.

  If your a farmer, and a Republican, do you realize your voting history is exactly the reasin why you're mad at only having 3 "Big Ag" companies to sell to. They complain all the way to the voting both and then vote against their wishes.

  I'm glad Colorado will change its color this year.....

• October 26, 2008

  12:02 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  mytwosense writes:

  Beau writes: "If Obama is elected, a company that I know quite well in Colorado will have to lay off ten hard working employees. The new taxes he's going to establish will require it -- they make more than $250,000 a year, and they can't pay the taxes without laying off employees.

  You want to know which one? Surprise! It just might be yours."

  What a bunch of BS. Taxes are only assessed on a company's profits, which are determined after expenses like salaries and benefits are deducted.

  In fact, under Obama's plan, the employer can actually write off more of his/her tax liability if he/she creates more jobs here in the US.

  Meanwhile, workers everywhere will receive tax credits that they can then put back into the economy, which will help businesses.

• October 26, 2008

  12:06 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  John_Galt writes:

  Break out the Jonestown special Kool-Aid for these lemmings.

• October 26, 2008

  12:09 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  John_Galt writes:

  Those liberal lemmings are back again. Break out the Kool-Aid.

• October 26, 2008

  12:27 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  lobodi writes:

  12:28 watch thirty seconds of the live stream, throw up in my mouth and wish to God that somebody could shut him up...just shut up already, talking the talk is far easier than walking the walk.

• October 26, 2008

  12:28 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  NeilT writes:

  John Galt is so proud of himself he needed to post twice.

• October 26, 2008

  12:33 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  BenchBoss writes:

  Wow. Kool-Aid. Original.

  Pick that up where you got all your other candidate bullet-points?

  Beyond that, many rants here (and elsewhere) revolve around taxation issues as outlined during this race. As if they will become effective immediately. And as you THINK you understand them. Might want to focus on salvaging what little's left of the campaign rather than wasting such time and energy on policies that don't exist.

  "Under the Obama plan middle class families will see their taxes cut – and no family making less than $250,000 will see their taxes increase. Obama has proposed a tax plan which includes tax credits to lower the amount of taxes paid. The typical middle class family will receive well over $1,000 in tax relief under the Obama plan, and will make tax payments that are 20% lower than they faced under President Reagan. According to the Tax Policy Center, the Obama plan provides three times as much tax relief for middle class families as the McCain plan.

  Families making more than $250,000 will pay either the same or lower tax rates than they paid in the 1990s. For the wealthiest 2% of families, Obama will reverse a portion of the tax cuts they have received over the past eight years. But no family will pay higher tax rates than they would have paid in the 1990s. In fact, dividend rates would be 39 percent lower than what President Bush proposed in his 2001 tax cut."

• October 26, 2008

  12:58 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  LuvAmerica writes:

  Beau writes: "If Obama is elected, a company that I know quite well in Colorado will have to lay off ten hard working employees. The new taxes he's going to establish will require it -- they make more than $250,000 a year, and they can't pay the taxes without laying off employees."

  A rising tide lifts all boats.

  If the recession continues or deepens into a depression (brought to you courtesy of 30 years of failed GOP fiscal fantasies), that company won't be doing much of anything unless they are in the eviction business.

• October 26, 2008

  1:02 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  Brunowolfe writes:

  Beau writes:" If Obama is elected, a company that I know quite well in Colorado will have to lay off ten hard working employees. The new taxes he's going to establish will require it -- they make more than $250,000 a year, and they can't pay the taxes without laying off employees."

  Cmon Beau, at least give an effort to make your made up bull shit a bit less pathetic! And Nobama....how many different names you gonna post under in one thread?...lol

  And hey! Where are all the GOPs today who were screaming "birth certificate" gate? Oh, that's right, the judge threw the nut job Philip Bergs case out yesterday.....Oh well, on to the next slander....

  It's nice to see McCain's campaign starting to eat itself. All the visible tension between Palin and McCain in the dual interview, Palin and top campaign aides bi##$ing and pointing blame at each other. Her trying to save what she hopes will be a national career (lol @ that), the campaign aides hoping to save enough face so they can have future opportunities running other GOP campaigns. The campaign and the RNC bi#$%ing at each other about McCain being in New Mexico and other states that he's impossibly behind in. Didn't McCain say one that he'll never surrender, then he gave up in Michigan? The worst run campaign I've ever seen.....

  Well boys, better put a trip to costco on your "to do" list, and pickup the extra large box of kleenex, cause you're gonna need em come Nov 4th. My best estimte from the polling is ~330 electoral votes for Obama, the rest for McCain. Maybe you should get an early start on looking for a shrink "Nobama"?....

• October 26, 2008

  1:06 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  AC writes:

  Nobama writes: "Actually, I'm not stupid, and I could prove it to any objective person."

  <spit take!>

  All evidence is to the contrary, chum.

• October 26, 2008

  1:06 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  Barron writes:

  Beau: Bull.

• October 26, 2008

  1:08 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  Barron writes:

  John Galt is reminding me of Dr. Seuss. Except Seuss made a lot more sense.

• October 26, 2008

  1:16 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  SanctuaryCity writes:

  That must be part of the 40% who don't pay taxes who showed up or denver is really the california of the rockies.

  I'm preparing myself for a osama obama presidency as I will at least triple my untaxed monies and still avoid B.O's tax increases. Can't wait for the DEPRESSION. Crash baby crash. My 3 houses are paid for, cars are paid for, no debt. As I said crash baby crash with B.O.

• October 26, 2008

  1:23 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  Wagthedog1001 writes:

  Obama appeals to what is best in us.

  The opponents can only be negative and say, "no not that one for __________ reason." (usually the reason is political or personal hyperbole)

  THAT's why 100,000 show up to listen to Obama speak.

  Few listen to the opponents.

• October 26, 2008

  1:24 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  FCZ writes:

  New taxes and government mandated programs like 'free' healthcare will cause massive unemployment and business closures.

  Food, clothing, energy...will all be more expensive.

  Pressure on mortgage payments will expand as the taxpayers get killed.

• October 26, 2008

  1:31 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  NeilT writes:

  FCZ writes: "New taxes and government mandated programs like 'free' healthcare will cause massive unemployment and business closures.

  Food, clothing, energy...will all be more expensive.

  Pressure on mortgage payments will expand as the taxpayers get killed."

  Time to open your eyes, pal. We're already experiencing those wonderful things you THINK an Obama administration would bring.

• October 26, 2008

  1:35 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  Jonah writes:

  Wow, some of you disgruntled Neo-cons should see a therapist!

  So, you're going to lose the election...get over it! Now is the time (no pun intended) to join together and take this country back. All of us should work together, sacrifice together, and contribute together to conserve resources, improve education, support our military and other public servants. There is so much more to do...let's stop quibbling and help America to live up to its dream.

• October 26, 2008

  1:39 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  Eli7 writes:

  Socialist is too mild of a word to describe the Marxist Obama. Obama has already implemented his first Marxist act, that being Obama's US Senate bill S2433 that Obama is currently sponsoring in the US Senate. Obama's S2433 is a global MARXIST WEALTH REDISTRIBUTION scheme. The tax money that is squeezed out of us by Obama's S2433 will add an "ADDITIONAL" 845 Billion in taxes on an already over taxed America and Obama's S2433 will consume seven percent of our GNP. The money from Obama's S2433 will be given to the corrupt United Nations, specifically for "The UN Global Poverty Act". Your money will then be REDISTRIBUTED to despicable third world dictators. This is factual and can be verified, just Google "Obama's S2433" and read for yourself how Obama is working to REDISTRIBUTE your hard earned money to the tyrants of the world. Obama has also vowed to eliminate the reduction on the death inheritance tax that President Bush implemented so he can get his sticky hands on most of your inheritance money. Know who to curse when your love ones leave you something and Obama's Marxist government takes most of it from you and REDISTRIBUTES it to the lazy, unproductive losers of the USA and the world. Obama has also vowed to double the Capital Gains Tax so if you bought a second house to cash in on for your retirement, you can expect your property investment return to be cut in half at the very least so kiss your retirement goodbye. These acts and Obama's S2433 are only some Comrade Obama's planned take from and give away programs with many more coming if he gets into office. There is NO way that Obama can implement all his Marxist's plans without taxing Joe Average to death, forget about the rich. There is a bottom to every well and the rich aren't rich enough to fund all the massive Marxist CHANGE that the Messiah has in the closet. That is Obama's economic plan, vote for John McCain and keep your money.

• October 26, 2008

  1:41 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  freespeech34 writes:

  100,000? Hmmm...must be a lot of illegals waiting for driver licenses and social security benefits. If you think things are bad now, just wait until January 20th.

• October 26, 2008

  1:46 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  60s4ever writes:

  Let's see:

  4,000 show up to see McCain
  Over 100,000 to see Obama

  That's about right.

• October 26, 2008

  1:49 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  FCZ writes:

  Higher public spending, more irresponsible borrowing, and an ever-growing tax-burden will be much bigger under Barack Hussein Obama , Udall, and their friends.

  “The Weather Underground was a violent, violent, anti-government, domestic terrorist organization. Barack Hussein Obama has not only associated with those people, he continued associating with racist people like his minister Jeremiah Wright over a period of 20 years. I don’t think that’s by happenstance. It’s just amazing to me. The American people are being led by the nose by people who say this isn’t important.”

  Instead of finding ways to excuse them, Barack Hussein Obama should have been denouncing both Wright and Ayers. Instead of voting “present” 130 times in the Illinois Senate, he should have been doing his job and taking a stand.

  As crushing as the financial crisis has been, it seems to me unlikely that Americans will send to the White House a man whose views are not only left of center but who doesn’t know right from wrong.

  http://www.newsmax.com/insidecover/ob...

• October 26, 2008

  1:51 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  NeilT writes:

  "If you think things are bad now, just wait until January 20th."

  Why? Is the sun not going to rise that morning?

  All the bogus/typical talking points aside, what are you so afraid of?

• October 26, 2008

  1:53 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  lobodi writes:

  Jonah...neo con really, is the term "new conservative" supposed to tear me up inside.
  
  If Obama wins, it actually might be kind of fun for awhile to sit back and point and laugh, and be able to blame all the ills of the nation and the world on President Obama...on second thought just seeing his name and that title together is frightening. He is not ready and he is not capable of leading this country. It takes a whole lot more than being able to give great oration. Like I said walk the walk, don't just talk the talk. His arrogance is amazing!

• October 26, 2008

  1:56 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  FCZ writes:

  Don’t bogart that joint...

  Socialism always SOUNDS good .

  Barack Hussein Obama’s proposal to “spread the wealth around” is taking from hardworking, thrifty citizens and giving to the freeloaders .

• October 26, 2008

  2:10 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  NeilT writes:

  "Barack Hussein Obama’s proposal to “spread the wealth around” is taking from hardworking, thrifty citizens and giving to the freeloaders"

  That bailout ship has already sailed. All these scary things you claim that might happen under Obama are happening right now!

  Supporting McCain is un-American. A vote for McCain is a vote for al-Qaeda.

• October 26, 2008

  2:12 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  NeilT writes:

  Oh, and here... <pass>

  Sorry, it was the dude next to me that fish lipped it.

• October 26, 2008

  2:24 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  jackemoe writes:

  Paraphrasing the wingnut above...

  JOHN MCCAIN

  Who IS he, really?

  Where and how did he spend his youth? Spoiled rotten as the priveleged son.

  What do we know about his activities during his college years? He finished 897'th out of 900 and was known as a drinker, womanizer and trouble maker. A maverick!

  What is a community organizer?
  someone who respects the communities they live in and promotes those communities to work together to improve the lives of their neighbors and citizens... What else did you think it was?

  What is the reputation of Chicago politics? What is the reputation of a 897th out of 900 college graduate and aviator and of a washington d.c. politician?

  Who have his associates been?
  Pinochet, Bush, Reagan, Chambliss, Limbaugh, Hannity, Coulter, Kristol, Krauthammer, Hagee

  Who was his “spiritual mentor”? John Hagee

  What were the fiscal, health, education and crime conditions in The US during his tenure as Senator? Well, look no further than the mess we're now in for that answer.

  What has he accomplished as a Senator after almost 30 years in office? McCain/Feingold which he now rails against. In otherwords he was for it before he was against it.

  But, he isn't that good looking, intelligent, nor gives a great speech! That’s all that matters!

• October 26, 2008

  2:27 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  jay writes:

  lol

  we've got a little more than a week to go and the footsoldiers are sticking to the already debunked myths about "socialism" and "marxism"?

  i would have thought you guys would have come up with some better stuff a week before the big game.

• October 26, 2008

  2:28 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  LuvAmerica writes:

  FCZ writes:
  “The Weather Underground was a violent, violent, anti-government, domestic terrorist organization. Barack Hussein Obama has not only associated with those people, he continued associating with racist people like his minister Jeremiah Wright over a period of 20 years. I don’t think that’s by happenstance. It’s just amazing to me. The American people are being led by the nose by people who say this isn’t important.”

  Okay, indulging for a moment your gross exaggerations of the relationships Obama has had with the folks you mentioned, would you please do me a favor and provide evidence that Obama has integrated those horrific world-views and philosophies into his believe system? How about first-hand accounts from his fellow students, or his law students, or community members who have worked with him, or those in Washington, anyone with intimate knowledge of the man who can provide any evidence to the contrary that he IS NOT a thoughtful, intelligent, dedicated Christian and American who is passionate about public service? Anyone who has ever heard him utter "whitey will pay" or "socialism will rule", or "praise Allah!" or ANYTHING that would substantiate the imaginary asinine portrait you and your ilk have painted of the man?

  Because every first-hand account I've seen does not support your libelous accusations.

• October 26, 2008

  2:33 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  glycerine831 writes:

  Alaska's largest newspaper chose not to endorse the state's governor in the presidential race and instead endorsed Sen. Barack Obama's presidency.

  The Anchorage Daily News endorsed Obama in an editorial posted Saturday night to its Web site.

  The paper said: "Palin's nomination clearly alters the landscape for Alaskans as we survey this race for the presidency but it does not overwhelm all other judgment. The election, after all is said and done, is not about Sarah Palin, and our sober view is that her running mate, Sen. John McCain, is the wrong choice for president at this critical time for our nation

• October 26, 2008

  2:38 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  thelizard writes:

  100,000 people..Obama, you are just like a rock star, I just love you. (gack) (Milli Vanilli was popular too, before they found out it was all a fake.)
  To Beau; Members of my family plan on laying people off too, when the redistributer gets into power, (and I do mean power, when unconstrained control goes to the three biggest liberal economic twits to ever: Pelosi Reid and Obama)

• October 26, 2008

  2:41 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  gchc303 writes:

  The kid in the start of the article states he is voting for Chuck Baldwin, any conservative that can tell me what he represents gets points with me. Baldwin is far to the right of McCain/Palin. Let him throw away his vote. In fact his party has the right idea of states rights. What's best for Colorado may not be best for New York, or Florida. Mrs. Palin supports a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage. McCain wants that left to the states to decide. States rights are vital to smaller federal government.
  In case you want to know, I support Obama. Let the insults from everyone begin. hahaha

• October 26, 2008

  2:44 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  thelizard writes:

  Alaska Daily is owned by McClatchey papers. A liberal news organization, which even the NYT describes as such. I'm not impressed.

• October 26, 2008

  2:49 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  SanctuaryCity writes:

  1929 in 2009. Can't wait

• October 26, 2008

  2:50 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  EZRider writes:

  HALF OF BOULDER AND WOLF BLITZER

  Going to drink Jonestown Koolaid in a mass suicide when 30% of the Barakashama voters sleep through election day.

  Peace out.

  LMAO

• October 26, 2008

  2:51 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  gchc303 writes:

  freespeech34:

  100,000? Hmmm...must be a lot of illegals waiting for driver licenses and social security benefits. If you think things are bad now, just wait until January 20th.

  I was one of those 100,000 and I didn't see very many illegals. It was mostly white middle class Colorado voters. I didn't see many hippies, stoners, Muslims, Mexicans, African-Americans either. The people you blame for all our problems.

• October 26, 2008

  2:55 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  SanctuaryCity writes:

  Vote socialism, vote marxist, vote democrate, vote now

• October 26, 2008

  2:58 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  SanctuaryCity writes:

  Your car could break down, the weather could be bad, an emergency could happen so VOTE now

• October 26, 2008

  2:58 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  coloradovet writes:

  One Alaskan tradition exhibiting tendencies of socialism is the oil and gas rebate checks. Last year, Alaskan residents received a $1,654 check as a dividend from oil revenues in the state. Now, thanks to an initiative backed by Palin, each Alaskan (including Palin, her husband and children) will get $1,200 more to help pay for energy cost increases. Apparently the almost $10,000 the Palin family received last year wasn't enough to heat their Wasilla lakefront home.

• October 26, 2008

  2:59 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  coloradovet writes:

  Looks like Alaskans are so hearty and self-reliant after all!!

• October 26, 2008

  3:01 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  RichDen writes:

  Okay, a show of hands. How many would appreciate ghoax, Nobama or John Galt as neighbors, as coworkers, or God forbid, as relatives? Thought so. There isn't sufficient anger management therapy in the state to help these folks.

  Actually, the anger is easily explained. There is a significant segment of the American population that is scared silly about slipping into a minority and losing the power to dictate to the country how to vote, how to believe, how to worship and how to look.

  Get used to it, guys. The best fabric of America is coming through.

• October 26, 2008

  3:01 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  besstwitches writes:

  I hope those who were there today enjoyed the beginning of the end of our free country. I think if most Americans were honest, they just want a President who speaks eloquently, after 8 years of the Bush "strategery" (I know, I know-- Bush didn't really make up that word but it's become a running joke in our home). I cringed when I heard Palin mispronounce nuclear. She says it the same way Bush does. But I am still voting for McCain (Republican)...and Kenneth Wyble (Libertarian)...and Mollie Collum (Democrat)...because I don't vote "straight down the ballot", I research the candidates, I vote outside my party and I THINK FOR MYSELF. I don't need a rally or televised debates. I read books, follow independent online news media, and listen to a.m. talk radio.

• October 26, 2008

  3:02 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  joggle writes:

  Those of you that are being what I would call 'hyper-critical' (to be most kind) of Obama have the most serious case of tunnel vision I have ever witnessed. You focus on what you want to focus on while claiming that your foes are ignoring that tiny window you want them to focus on 100% of the time. The truth is many of us have seen that tiny window of 'truth' for what it is, blatant lies and exaggerations, many of them started by just a couple of lowlifes that have told more than their fair share of lies in the past. There are many valid attacks you could leverage against Obama but instead you betray your ignorance by focusing on the most outrageous claims of all. Honestly, who do you think you're going to convince with such ridiculous arguments? If you really want McCain to win you would focus on valid arguments (like Democrats having a lot of federal power, the issue of not taking the public campaign money but raising a gazillion dollars in private money, etc). Oh well, I'm not here to win your fight for you.

  If you really think Obama is nothing but a good orator (at best) then why did almost every poll show him winning every presidential debate? How was he able to run such a successful campaign on words alone? Why will you not even listen to your own candidate or defend him?? I bet most if not all of you have never watched Meet the Press because it doesn't contain your distilled version of the 'truth' you're interested in.

• October 26, 2008

  3:03 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  gardog writes:

  O'Bama and his inexperience at leading anything other than a van load of Acorn volunteers is less to worry about than the triumvirate of Reid-Pelosi-O'Bama. They will write the legislation and he'll "sign baby sign".....

  Disclaimer - I present no facts here - just opinion.

  It will become illegal to fire an employee for any reason related to economics. If a business is doing poorly, the company will by statue be required to support the person with benefits for an extended period. Temporary workers will grow as a % of teh total.

  It will become illegal to to fire an employee for being illegally within our country.

  Laws allowing rapid citizenship will be enacted as a way to spur demand for housing to help solve the housing crisis brought on by both parties, but primarily Frank and Dodd by virtue of their positions in our government.

  "Hate crime" laws will be expanded to include speaking out against people religions and affiliations. Unless "the gov't" deems them to be coersive.

  The liberal democrats historically have taken conservative excesses to the next level. That's why Hoovers buffoonery couldn't be undone by FDR's silly programs like CCC and the like. Only the Second World War brought us out of the depression. (sorry had to slip in one fact).

  At least O'Bama has shown some capacity to learn quickly. Perhaps he can learn what will help us out of our morass. Perhaps he'll be constitutionally stronger than the boneheads in Congress.

• October 26, 2008

  3:05 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  jefferson3 writes:

  It was an amazing morning. Tons of civil, diverse and downright happy people hanging out together. It makes me proud to live in Colorado. The bitterness from the mccain supporters will wither on the vine. 9 MORE DAYS!!!!!!!!!

• October 26, 2008

  3:05 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  djbrav writes:

  Brunowolfe - how did you get 'sh#t' past the goalie? nice job! and couldn't have said it better about nobama and crew. I went to the rally - what an awesome event! The feeling is so much different than a McCain/Palin rally. People are in such a great place - no negativity, positive thinking and positive motion.
  nobama, uno, eli7 and crew should set up a group rate for happiness counseling. I think everybody here and to whomever else you pontificate, nobama, are over the 'socialist, terrorist, Marxist' scheme you've been touting. Be original, talk to actual McCain points, positive change that he proposes to bring if he were to be elected president. Doh, you don't have any, do you?

• October 26, 2008

  3:10 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  gardog writes:

  The one thing I can't get anyone to explain to me - civilly of course - is related to the O'Bama message (McCain just tried to steal it)of "Change".

  What exactly are either of these two men going to change? How are they going to accomplish it?

  To me McCain has no idea and O'Bama is little more clear with seeking to change the economic system. What is that people believe will really get "changed" without tossing out the bozos in Congress - regardless of party affiliation?

• October 26, 2008

  3:15 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  RichDen writes:

  Gardog, how about changing the politics of hate, divisiveness, code words and ignorance.

• October 26, 2008

  3:17 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  Speak writes:

  “We don't blame you for all of the countries woes, we forgive you”.

  You don’t blame us but you forgive us how NOBiden clause of you

  ”You can finally believe in something”

  This I believe, I don’t believe in the Black guy with the dreamy rhetoric

  “A stronger and greater America. A world leader, once again.

  Won’t it be nice to be proud of your vote”

  Make up your mind you want me to be proud of my vote or vote for the dreamy Black guy with the foot loose and fancy free old white guy

  “Let go. it’s ok....let go..breath deeply...calm now...let go...we welcome you”

  I’ll breath but put down the kool-aid or I won’t take another step closer

  You the kinder gentler Party….No need to poison me

  “Obama appeals to what is best in us”

  Skin color according to NOBama….”He doesn’t look like money”
  Dean head of Dems GOP is “the White party”

  "That’s why 100,000 show up to listen to Obama speak"
  Where are the Bronco’s…BI-week

  “Few listen to the opponents”

  We don’t need a “Sermon on the Mount” from McCain…
  He’s Right for America…He loved her from day one, “not just now”

  “Wow, some of you disgruntled Neo-cons should see a therapist”

  NOBama’s mental health plan is coming…In the mean time we'll be right here until you round us up...under the Bus!

  “Let's stop quibbling and help America to live up to its dream”

  Because she’s been stepped on by Ayers put down by Michelle NOBama, because we didn’t learn French and because we refuse to stop working hard and take NOBama’s welfare check

  Calm down… you Dems are the kinder gentler party

• October 26, 2008

  3:21 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  jay writes:

  it's about policies, gardog.

  it's not necessarily the people in congress that need to go. unfortunately for many years we've seen congress unable to pass many initiatives with the support of the majority of americans.

  it is the fundamental policy decisions that we need to change.

  considering that mccain represents the same policies that we've seen for 8 years now, it's hard to imply that obama isn't the only person bringing real policy changes to the table.
  
  having different people voting the same way isn't the answer.

  it would be nice if the majority of americans were being represented in washington again...which would be a change from our experience of late.

  if you're still unsure as to what the specifics of their policies are (and reading your "opinions" above, i'd wager a guess you are)...i encourage you to at least read their websites if not do some additional research on your own before you vote.

  www.johnmccain.com

  www.barackobama.com

• October 26, 2008

  3:34 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  FCZ writes:

  Native American's Against Obama-Where?"
  
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCeImy...

• October 26, 2008

  3:40 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  glycerine831 writes:

  This is the funniest gaffe of the entire election...
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxkL1e...

  Oh grandpa!

• October 26, 2008

  3:44 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  FCZ writes:

  Details of the Barack Hussein Obama / ACORN connection:

  http://clintons4mccain.com/

• October 26, 2008

  3:48 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  Beau writes:

  When Obama's tax policies are passed, the companies that make over $250,000 are going to lay off workers. The taxes are on profit, which in a private company is re-invested in capital goods in order to keep the business going. (Like new trucks, new computers, updated equipment.) This profit is needed in order to sustain their company.

  So: Out go 10 employees, in order to sustain the business and pay Obama's new taxes.

  Oh -- and Obama is going to let Bush's tax cuts expire, which means everyone earning over $40,000 a year is gong to see their taxes go up by about $2000.00 a year. Say goodbye to your tax refund and that new television you wanted to buy.

  Then he's going to bring in even more new taxes on "fat cat" corporations so your gasoline, heating, electricity and food are going to go sky high.

  Is the business I spoke of going to cut ten employees? They don't stay in business by being stupid. They know the prices on EVERYTHING are going up under Obama and they need to survive.

  Is your job safe? I'll tell you the answer: No.

• October 26, 2008

  3:51 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  glycerine831 writes:

  fcz-

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-yJQY...

• October 26, 2008

  3:56 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  LuvAmerica writes:

  gardog writes:
  "Disclaimer - I present no facts here - just opinion.

  Thank you for at least admitting it is opinion.

  It would also be good if you did not speak in an absolute tense.

  "It will become..." (snip) would be better phrased "It might become...".

• October 26, 2008

  4 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  FCZ writes:

  Barack Hussein Obama's Achievements?

  What Achievements?

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8pNaW...

• October 26, 2008

  4:04 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  FCZ writes:

  Barack Hussein Obama says he plans to cut taxes for 95 percent of American workers. That sounds terrific, but there are three problems.

  One, it is meant to draw attention from the real core of the Obama tax plan: proposed increases in every major federal tax.

  Two, the structure of the cuts will create perverse incentives.

  And three, many of the people receiving “tax cuts” don’t pay taxes to begin with, meaning they’ll be in effect getting welfare.

  http://article.nationalreview.com/pri...

• October 26, 2008

  4:27 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  mytwosense writes:

  Beau writes: "When Obama's tax policies are passed, the companies that make over $250,000 are going to lay off workers. The taxes are on profit, which in a private company is re-invested in capital goods in order to keep the business going. (Like new trucks, new computers, updated equipment.) This profit is needed in order to sustain their company."

  If those are purchases meant to replace old and worn out items, they are tax deductible expenses. If they're new purchases meant for expansion purchases (i.e., capital expenditures), they can be depreciated over time which will reduce taxes in coming years.

  Plus, not every business is in expansion mode, which is an assumption you seem to be making.

  Second, there is no way that a three point increase in taxes is going to choke off expansion for most businesses, especially if this expansion adds new US jobs which will result in a tax write-off under Obama's proposal.

  Let me guess. You don't own a business and never have.

• October 26, 2008

  4:31 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  EXrepublican writes:

  titancain,
  yes it is sort of fun watching from a lifeboat as they rearrange the deck chairs.

  I simply cannot believe how people I once revered as intellectuals Reveal themselves as arrogant, bigoted believers in propaganda.

  Today At Civic Center park Obama said "do not let anyone question your patriotism..."
  Well I along with over 100,000 others agree. our patriotism is fine. AS we can plainly see it is the republicans, who deserve the "suspicion of subversiveness" now.

• October 26, 2008

  4:41 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  STOPUSAGiveaway writes:

  If Obama gets into office: it will be due to an ignorant electorate and his ability to manipulate the law in violation of the US & States Constitution.
  When Obama ran for Senator--it was all about the sheer marvel of a man born in Keyna becoming a US Senator..
  Those are not the qualifications to run for President!
  What has Biden voted for: well we know BIDEN and 32 others Senators including Hiliary VOTED AGAINST making ENGLISH the official language of the United States of America.
  Keep cheering...it will be your last...
  Please NEVER compare OBAMA with JFK a real hero and one who died because he was willing to STOP the FEDERAL RESERVE..
  Do Unto Others As You Would Have Them Do Unto Y O U
  One Nation Under GOD

• October 26, 2008

  4:45 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  FCZ writes:

  I cannot predict who will win the presidential campaign, but I already know who will lose big: all women.

  I realized this when I saw a 20-something male student who attends a class in the community college where I teach, wearing a T-shirt that read, "Sarah Palin is a C-." He wore it in public, in broad daylight, and without shame or even consciousness of what he was doing.

  Most of my adult life has been spent working for civil rights for all Americans, as a lawyer defending constitutional rights and now as a college teacher and director of a nonprofit advocating for the rights of women.

  It was the encounter with the young man that woke me up, but there were signs all along the campaign trail. First, with the candidacy of Sen. Hillary Clinton, who won 18 million popular votes from the people of the United States and was ridiculed, marginalized, and put in her place when she wasn't even offered the vice presidency slot.

  But the really big attack on women occurred when John McCain selected only the second woman in history to be on a major-party ticket. He chose a governor of a state critical to our energy crisis. She is a very popular governor with an 80-percent approval rate. She was elected on her own merit without previous political ties. She is her own political creation, not the wife, daughter, sister or mistress of a politician.

  I thought Americans would be proud of her nomination, whether we agreed or disagreed with her on the issues. Was I in for a shock.

  The sexism that I believed had been eradicated was lurking, like some creature from the black lagoon, just below the surface. Suddenly it erupted and in some unexpected places.

  The hatred escalated to performers advocating Palin be "gang raped," ...

  Mockery and vilification of women such as Palin should become just as taboo as race-based slams. Until then, women are the real losers.

  http://www.philly.com/inquirer/curren...

• October 26, 2008

  4:53 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  PonchoVia writes:

  STOPUSAGiveaway, are all the prominent Republican/Conservative Obama endorsers shown below part of the "ignorant electorate"? Do you have some wisdom that they lack?

  Elected Officials:
  Jim Leach, Former Congressman from Iowa
  Lincoln Chafee, Former United States Senator from Rhode Island
  William Weld, Former Governor of Massachusetts
  Arne Carlson, Former Governor of Minnesota
  Wayne Gilchrest, Congressman from Maryland
  Richard Riordan, Former Mayor of Los Angeles
  Lowell Weicker, Former Governor and Senator from Connecticut
  Jim Whitaker, Fairbanks, Alaska Mayor
  Linwood Holton, Former Governor of Virginia

  Government Officials:
  Colin Powell, Secretary of State under Bush 43
  Douglas Kmiec, Head of the Office of Legal Counsel under Reagan & Bush 41
  Charles Fried, Solicitor General of the United States under Reagan
  Jackson M. Andrews, Republican Counsel to the U.S. Senate
  Susan Eisenhower, Granddaughter of President Eisenhower & President of the Eisenhower Group
  Francis Fukuyama, Advisor to President Reagan
  Rita Hauser, Former White House intelligence advisor under George W. Bush
  Larry Hunter, Former President Reagan Policy Advisor
  Scott McClellan, Former Press Secretary to President George W. Bush
  Bill Ruckelshaus, served in the Nixon and Reagan administrations
  Ken Adelman, served in the Ford administration
  Lilibet Hagel, Wife of Republican Senator Chuck Hagel

  Columnists and Academics:
  Jeffrey Hart, National Review Senior Editor
  Andrew Bacevich, Professor of International Relations at Boston University
  David Friedman, Economist and son of Milton and Rose Friedman
  Christopher Buckley, Son of National Review founder William F. Buckley & former NR columnist
  Andrew Sullivan, Columnist for the Atlantic Monthly
  Wick Alison, Former publisher of the National Review
  Michael Smerconish, Columnist for the Philadelphia Enquirer
  CC Goldwater, Granddaughter of Barry Goldwater

• October 26, 2008

  4:55 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  me2 writes:

  research is fun. I heard a man foaming on the Micheal Savage show that Obama's birth certificate wasn't even posted for 4 DAYS. Well, he was born at 7:49 on Friday August 4th. So you can kiss off the 4th, 5th and 6th, unless he was so important they had to post it on the weekend. That leaves Monday and only the Goddess knows why his was delayed till Tuesday. My husband's was delayed 7 days in Texas. Maybe he will be the next president.

  But that one day delay must mean the conspiracy was in full effect at the time.

  So where was Obama born? You know what, it doesn't matter because his mom was an American citizen. Hawaii, Kenya still his parents made him a duel citizen of the Great Britain and America until 1989. That was when his citizenship in Great Britain dropped out. Kenya was part of the Britain till later.

  If someone says now that, well he must be a citizen of some other country, say Indonesia, where is the paper work?

  Poor Mr. Savage, he said all his alarm bells went off when Obama went to Hawaii to see his grandmother. M.Savage imagined Obama making a midnight raid on the court house for one more time with the birth certificate.

  Actually I will miss the neurotic, spastic temper of this campaign.

• October 26, 2008

  4:55 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  RichDen writes:

  FCZ, criticism of those running for office who claim expertise in areas in which they are clueless but then pontificate about in ignorance should be required not swept under the rug - this includes male and female candidates.

  A case in point (and there are many) - Governor Palin's well-meaning speech about children with special needs. It seemed to be going well until she denigrated fruit fly research. Anyone who has taken a college biology class was taught that much genetics research is performed utilizing the genus Drosophila, for many scientific reasons - including the large size of their chromosomes and their rapid reproductive rate. A great deal of information has been obtained as a result of this research - including much in the area of Down Syndrome. Drosophila, of course, is the genus name for fruit flies.

  Your argument is specious - ignorance is ignorance regardless of gender.

• October 26, 2008

  5:04 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  FCZ writes:

  Obama is wrong on Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, Russia, health care, corporate tax rates, investment taxes, education flexibility, abortion regulation, immigration policy, meeting with dictators, social security, energy, trade, and believing that subprime lending was a good idea.

  He has opportunistically changed or regularly misstated his positions on public financing, gun control, born alive infant protection, wire tapping, timetable for Iraq, elimination of the Bush tax cuts, the DC gun ban, an undivided Israel, the Cuba embargo, NAFTA, participation in town halls with McCain, oil drilling, and support of nuclear power.

  He has no major legislative accomplishments as either a State senator or United States Senator, and has never demonstrated an ability to work with members of the other party, despite his claim that's what he'll do.

• October 26, 2008

  5:13 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  GetReal writes:

  jay said,

  "lol we've got a little more than a week to go and the footsoldiers are sticking to the already debunked myths about "socialism" and "marxism"?
  ____________________________________________________

  Please provide evidence where these "myths" have been debunked.

  In fact, Obama has many ties to Socialism and Communism, and has written and spoken often about the influential people in his life. Let's take a quick look at his mentors and associates for proof.

  His Admitted First Mentor- Frank Marshall Davis who was a hard core member of the old Moscow controlled Communist Party U.S.A., and a pedophile.
  http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.ph...

  Political and Community Organizer Mentor- Saul Alinsky who espouses Socialism and wrote "Rules For Radicals"-
  http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-71180

  Spiritual/Religious Mentor- The radical BLT racist and anti-American conspiracy nut Jeremiah Wright-
  http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/0...

  Financial/Political Fundraising Mentor- Syrian Tony Rezko, the convicted felon and former Obama contributor, fundraiser and sweetheart real estate buddy, who also has ties with the Nation Of Islam-
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Rezko

  Some Obama Associates,

  Bill Ayers and Bernadine Dohrn- Unrepentant terrorists and founders of The Weather Underground, an admitted Communist organization-
  http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/08/...
  http://www.zombietime.com/prairie_fire/

  The Socialist New Party- Obama was associated with them for almost a decade-
  http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/200...

  Raila Odinga- Obama's Socialist/Communist Kenyan cousin who he campaigned for-
  http://www.moonbattery.com/archives/2...

  If you need more, here is a series that explores in depth Obama's history concerning Socialism and Communism-
  http://www.ibdeditorials.com/series8....

  You better settle in though jay,

  There is enough evidence to warrant TWENTY PARTS.

• October 26, 2008

  5:16 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  RichDen writes:

  Read FCZ's posting at 4:45. Then read all his earlier postings on this thread. Then, imagine the non-profit of which he is director. Do we get armbands?

• October 26, 2008

  5:32 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  EXrepublican writes:

  RichDen,
  I bet those armbands are red with bent crosses on them inside a white circle...otherwise known as swastikas...
  they look great on the sleeve of His/her brown shirt.
  it is the new uniform of the republican party.
  higher ups wear hooded white bead sheets.

• October 26, 2008

  5:34 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  LeLo writes:

  Hey, GetReal, did I tell you about the commies that came to visit me the other day?

  I was sitting on my back porch, smoking a bong (because everyone knows all Obama supporters smoke bongs, I read it on this forum just this week), and this mysterious black helicopter suddenly landed in my backyard. Now I had always doubted the existence of those black helicopters, but I couldn't deny them anymore, since one was landing right in front of me. Interestingly enough, my backyard is not big enough for a full-sized helicopter, and the commies must have know that in advance, because this was a mini-helicopter. Anyway, it landed, and sure enough, out hopped this whole squadron of commies. They were, of course, mini-commies, only a few feet tall, because that's all that would fit in a mini-helicopter. I asked them where the heck they were coming from, Russia or China? They said neither, as the Russians are no longer commies and the Chinese are really just totalitarian capitalists. No, they said they were from Venezuela, where everyone knows the real commies live nowadays. Then I asked them if they were invading, coming to take over my quiet little neighborhood. They said nah, they were just delivering my Obama yard sign.

  I posted my story earlier today, but I know how concerned you are about the commies, and I was afraid you had missed it.

• October 26, 2008

  5:53 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  joggle writes:

  FCZ: Did the thought ever cross your mind that Palin truly is a C-? Why did she have to go to so many colleges before getting her degree? Why did she give, by far, the worst interviews with Couric and others that I have ever seen (and I'm a news junkie and have seen many bad interviews, by Democrats, independents and Republicans over the years)? Males aren't the only ones criticizing her merits for being ready to be president. Many females are as well, both conservatives and liberals, including prominent conservative female journalists.

  Bush Jr was also great at winning elections. Sure as heck didn't make him a brilliant man though.

• October 26, 2008

  6:13 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  FCZ writes:

  If You Like Michigan's Economy, You'll Love Obama's

  Americans have voted with their feet by moving to states with greater opportunities, but federal adoption of failed state programs would take away our ability to walk away from bad government.

  In the name of taxing the rich, Mr. Obama would raise the marginal tax rates to over 50% on millions of small businesses that provide 75% of all new jobs in America.

  Investors and corporations will also pay higher taxes under the Obama program, but, as the Michigan-Ohio-Illinois experience painfully demonstrates, workers ultimately pay for higher taxes in lower wages and fewer jobs.

  http://online.wsj.com/article/SB12212...

• October 26, 2008

  6:23 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  RichDen writes:

  OK, my last words. (By the way, is FCZ a bot?)

  I can't believe there are any here who are still undecided, but if so, consider the following:

  Would you rather have a nation with a culture of hope or a creed of hate?

  Would you rather live in a society that celebrates diversity or one that clings to code words such as "our kind of people" and "real Americans"?

  Would you rather live under a government which seeks cooperative input or one whose mantra is "My Way or No Way?"

  Would you rather live in One Nation Under God, or A Nation Under the God of One Church?

  Would you rather be committed to the ideals on the Statue of Liberty or those of Joe McCarthy in the fifties?

  Would you rather have leaders who strive for the best in humanity or those who pander to the worst?

  It's really that simple, folks. You know where you stand.

• October 26, 2008

  6:28 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  FCZ writes:

  Joe Biden On Barack Obama

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDVUPq...

• October 26, 2008

  6:30 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  EXrepublican writes:

  RichDen,
  Spot on!!!

  It is that simple.

• October 26, 2008

  6:42 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  FCZ writes:

  For some reason Barack Obama has never mentioned his three week stay in Pakistan in any of his writings.

  On the infamous San Francisco trip in which Obama called small town Americans “bitter” he also bragged that he had more foreign policy credentials than Hillary Clinton and John McCain.

  One of the things he listed on his resume was his extensive foreign travel including a 1981 trip to Pakistan.

  However since this admission, slip of the tongue, or however you would characterize it, Obama has never mentioned this trip again.

  http://www.mikefrancesa.com/wordpress...

• October 26, 2008

  7:07 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  joggle writes:

  I agree with you RichDen. Well said and, in addition, I think you're right that we are wasting our time posting here at this point. The people we are replying to haven't changed in style nor substance since early summer. They are voting against Obama, even the smart ones. Nothing, absolutely nothing, will change their mind and nothing ever could have. And, to top it off, almost none of them want to discuss issues that the majority of people care about (you know, things like the economy), unless you consider calling Obama a socialist or a Marxist for the thousandth time a discussion.

  I probably will skip these forums for the next week since, in my opinion, the only thing that matters is turnout at this point. People have made up their minds, now GO VOTE! You can vote early and miss the lines on November 4th and from all the stories I've heard it's been really convenient and easy.

• October 26, 2008

  7:23 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  LuvAmerica writes:

  FCZ writes:
  "I cannot predict who will win the presidential campaign, but I already know who will lose big: all women."

  "I thought Americans would be proud of her nomination, whether we agreed or disagreed with her on the issues. Was I in for a shock."

  Hillary Clinton presented a complex set of issues as a candidate, 95% of which had not a dang thing to do with her being a woman.

  Sarah Palin is just an embarrassment to sentient women everywhere, setting the feminist clock back decades. Her nomination was a ridiculous insulting farce, the criteria for her selection being "She is pretty, spunky, and has mammary glands".

  Flirting her way to victory
  Sarah Palin's farcical debate performance lowered the standards for both female candidates and US political discourse

  Michelle Goldberg
  The Guardian
  Friday October 3 2008

  "At least three times last night, Sarah Palin, the adorable, preposterous vice-presidential candidate, winked at the audience. Had a male candidate with a similar reputation for attractive vapidity made such a brazen attempt to flirt his way into the good graces of the voting public, it would have universally noted, discussed and mocked. Palin, however, has single-handedly so lowered the standards both for female candidates and American political discourse that, with her newfound ability to speak in more-or-less full sentences, she is now deemed to have performed acceptably last night."

  http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfr...

• October 26, 2008

  7:29 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  Uno writes:

  Democrats are the party of hate;

  They hate Bush
  hate McCain
  hate Palin
  hate the rich
  hate the Christian right
  hate conservative blacks, hispanics, woman, and, naturally white man
  hate suburbs
  hate SUVs and the people who drive them
  hate regular light bulbs
  hate oil and oil companies
  hate pharmaceutical companies
  hate the military
  hate Walmart
  hate insurance companies
  hate the flag right side up
  hate capitalism in general
  hate the war on terror

  Democrats are the party of fear mongering;

  Welfare reform will cause the poor to drop dead on the streets, remember that?
  Gas will be $5.00 a gallon by October, they said a few months ago.
  AIDS was planted by white man in black communities.
  Liberals will be arrested by Bush and put in concentration camps.
  The government is listening into phone conversations illegally, 30-50 million of them a day lol
  Bush will bomb Iran.
  Bush will go to war with Russia.
  Bush will start 3 rd world war and nuke all Muslims.
  Bush / Cheney orchestrated 9/11.
  If Bush is elected, abortions will be illegal.
  If Bush is elected, the draft will be reinstated.
  Amazingly Bush was able to single-handedly cause the collapse of the world economy.

  Well, you get the idea, and Democrats are the one lecturing about hate and fear mongering? Very funny.

• October 26, 2008

  7:35 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  GetReal writes:

  LeLo 5:34-

  Thanks, but I already had the misfortune of reading your little kind bud induced attempt at creative writing earlier.

  Do you think you could now try to give a rational, cogent response to the evidence I put forth regarding Obama and his Socialist/Communist associates and mentors?

  What specifically in the info I presented do you contest and why?

  Or is that too much to ask from you?

• October 26, 2008

  7:42 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  LuvAmerica writes:

  GetReal writes:
  jay said,

  "lol we've got a little more than a week to go and the footsoldiers are sticking to the already debunked myths about "socialism" and "marxism"?
  ____________________________________________________

  "Please provide evidence where these "myths" have been debunked."

  GetReal, please see my post at 2:28. You and your pals sophomorically continue to engage in the logical fallacy that the philosophies espoused by acquaintances of Obama's are his as well.

  Please provide evidence that these myths are true, that OBAMA is a one-man Manchurian candidate walking IslamoTerroristCommieSocialist cell.

• October 26, 2008

  8:12 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  KarlCheney writes:

  Americans, my friends, we have witnessed the biggest disaster of an administration since the great depression. Those of you who support McCain and Palin I'm sure still support Bush and defend him. Of course it goes back to Clinton right! After 6 solid years of complete republican rule nothing was done for the middle class or the average small town America. If Clinton was so bad with the good economy and surplus why didn't the repub's fix anything when they had the chance. Nope we had wars of choice, borrow and spend, complete secrecy etc. McCain is part of that problem, I know party lines are strong, I hear repub's constantly say they would never vote for a dem no matter what. So there will always be 20 to 30% always voting for their party. Unfortunately Obama could fix every problem America faces and Rush and Hannity will hammer on him every day about how he is ruining America. Is there really any hope for our political future if some can never look past party affiliation?

• October 26, 2008

  8:29 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  Reason writes:

  joggle, why do act as though there aren't valid reasons to vote against Obama? I've read his "plan for change" on his website, and I would say that if he accomplished 1/3 of what he says he will, that would make him one of the most influential presidents we've ever had. I'm not buying.
  Why should I expect him to reform DC when he won't even stick to his own guns regarding campaign finance. I thought he was supposed to be the principled candidate. On the one hand, I think that a candidate should be allowed to use the funds how they wish, on the other hand, when I see a candidate spending more money on advertising than McDonalds, it makes me wonder if the presidency isn't just bought these days(seemed to work for Bush).
  According to factcheck, leftover campaign funds can be contributed to charity without limit, if Obama had stuck to his original promise he would have more than half a billion dollars that could be spent bettering the lives of people who could really use it. Is that how things will get done with an Obama presidency, that's the change we need, blowing through millions of dollars to fund American Idol?

• October 26, 2008

  8:35 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  FCZ writes:

  BILL CLINTON: "I think the responsibility that the Democrats have may rest more in resisting any efforts by Republicans in the Congress or by me when I was President to put some standards and tighten up a little on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac."

  The top three U.S. senators getting big Fannie and Freddie political bucks were Democrats and No. 2 is Sen. Barack Hussein Obama.

  Now remember, he's only been in the Senate four years, but he still managed to grab the No. 2 spot ahead of John Kerry — decades in the Senate — and Chris Dodd, who is chairman of the Senate Banking Committee.

  Fannie and Freddie have also been places for big Washington Democrats to go to work in the semi-private sector and pocket millions. The Clinton administration’s White House Budget Director Franklin Raines ran Fannie and collected $100 million.

  Jamie Gorelick — Clinton Justice Department official — worked for Fannie and took home $90 million.

  Big Democrat Jim Johnson, recently on Obama’s VP search committee, has hauled in millions from his Fannie Mae CEO job.

• October 26, 2008

  8:45 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  GetReal writes:

  Luv-

  While I believe associations are important, when evaluating what a mans made of, the mentors in his life are much more revealing.

  He has acknowledged the importance of said mentors and that is of public record. He wrote about them in his books.

  Obama hasn't been in politics for long so we have little to go on regarding how he would act as President.

  We do know the voting record he has amassed in his short political career places him as one of , if not the most liberal members in Congress.

  Wouldn't you agree, to get an idea of how he would govern , it is fair to examine his entire life, including mentors, friends and associates in an attempt to better evaluate his true values and beliefs?

  There is also a big chunk of his life that he has not addressed fully, specifically his years at Columbia and Harvard.

  Are you disturbed that Obama has sealed all his college records including his academic writings and final thesis?

  What is he hiding?

• October 26, 2008

  8:51 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  FCZ writes:

  Obama Bombshell Redistribution of Wealth Audio Uncovered

  http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=iivL4c_...

• October 26, 2008

  8:52 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  truth2u writes:

  NEW FLASH!!!

  Most Americans DON'T PAY INCOME TAX. Many already actually get money back! Under Obama more people won't pay any income tax and will get more money back. THAT IS SOCIALISM.

  OBAMA and Pelosi WILL create NEW taxes:
  carbon tax, emissions tax, and other consumption taxes!
  A national sales tax! Have you guys ever heard of a Value Added Tax, well you will! Just ask your Democratic representative. They will avoid that question, because they don't want you to know what they are about to do with the super majority in Congress.

  Tax, tax, tax, tax. Listen to the carefully crafted words of Obama. He only mentions income tax. He never talks about luxury tax, capital gains, sales tax, or any other taxes or "fees".

• October 26, 2008

  9:28 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  jay writes:

  getreal, do you have any reasons to believe he is committing "socialism" any more than republicans are committing "socialism" that are actually based on policy stanes of obama's?

  if you don't...i'll consider the point conceded.

  "why do act as though there aren't valid reasons to vote against Obama"

  same deal...they're not based on POLICY.

  "Under Obama more people won't pay any income tax and will get more money back. THAT IS SOCIALISM."

  nope...THAT IS A MYTH.

  if you don't pay taxes now, you won't be getting a check from obama.

• October 26, 2008

  9:41 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  joggle writes:

  Reason: I know there are rational reasons to vote against Obama, it's just that I very rarely seem them listed here and even more rarely argued. There are also many rational reasons to vote against McCain.

  From my point of view, these are the valid attacks I would use against Obama:

  1) Campaign financing (I've brought it up myself when I did a theoretical argument for McCain a week or two ago when I lost patience waiting for somebody to put up a good argument for him)
  2) If you're pro-life and that's your one and only issue then you would want McCain
  3) If you make more than $250k per year and honestly believe that another $300 billion tax cut is good for the economy regardless of anything that may happen then you would want McCain.

  Here are the best arguments against McCain:

  1) His choice of VP. This was his first important decision as president and I view it as perhaps the worst VP choice by a major candidate I've ever seen. He could have easily energized the base with a Romney or Huckabee pick but instead picked a person that largely thwarted his best attack against Obama, experience while also not being very appealing to independents.
  2) His campaign. If he had run his campaign like his 2000 campaign I think he would be doing much better in the polls. Instead, the McCain of 2008 disagrees with many of the principles of the McCain of 2000, especially on tax policy (back in 2000 he was against Bush's tax plan because it would blow up the deficit and now he not only wants to keep Bush's tax cut but add another $300 billion to it).
  3) His temper. While he may make the right call, he could very easily make a terrible call (see point 1). There is no denying that he is a gambler and willing to take a significant chance (such as threatening to miss a presidential debate, something I don't think anyone else has ever done, even in WWII). I think he's much too quick to anger which can make it far too easy for him to make a rash decision. I still can't believe he picked a VP candidate that he had only talked to briefly on one or two occasions. This is serious business and yet he seemed to view it more of a short-term political decision with few long-term consequences.
  4) His economic team. He personally has claimed that the economy is not his forte so, presumably, he needs a good economic team. In my opinion, and that of many other economists in the US, Obama has the better economic plan. And I think it's difficult, if not impossible, to argue that McCain has a better team of economic advisers than Obama.

• October 26, 2008

  9:41 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  joggle writes:

  5) If you want balance in the Supreme Court. As it stands there have been 8 years of conservative appointments in the Supreme Court and it is now strongly on the conservative side of the aisle. To add even more conservatives to the court I think would be potentially dangerous because it would not reflect the demographics of this country (at all) and due to their life-time appointments could lead to years of nonstop conservative rulings from the bench with the minority having no ability to have any sway in the court.

  Now, don't get me wrong, I don't think these are the 'only' issues one could prop against each candidate. I just think these are the strongest. I would never vote for one candidate on one issue alone. Instead, I would way several. I too originally had doubts about Obama's experience. But he has impressed me since the primaries since no candidate since Clinton back in the early 90s. I think he difficult issues early on in a way that probably would have sunk lesser candidates (such as his handling of Rev Wright--something I thought for sure was going to lead to Clinton winning the race). Based on Obama's deft handling of the Harvard Law Review publication (when several other editors were fierce conservatives--federalists, and withstanding pressure from liberals that wanted editor positions), I think he can certainly wither criticism from his friends and work with others on the other side of the political aisle.

• October 26, 2008

  9:46 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  SingleShot writes:

  Want the real "skinny" on the subject? Well, I have no need to "reinvent the wheel" here. The straight-up truth is that both McCain and Obama - are communists. That's right, people. The so-called "neo-cons" or neo-conservatives are NOT conservative. They're Trotskyites. Obama is merely another "flavor" of Marxist/Leninist with a little touch of Stalin, a little bit of Mao, a dash of Fabianism (like the Trotskyite candidate). Both are statist because both are collectivist. Fascism is yet another form of collectivism, so both share a degree of that because they are both "corporatist", Il Duce's (Mussolini) synonym for the term "Fascism" which is represented by a bundle of sticks with an axe head buried within - just like those on the wall of the U.S. House of Representatives. Don't believe it? Tune into C-Span during House proceedings. You'll see them on the wall. Then go look up the word, "Fascia" and ignore the definition that pertains to the sheath that surrounds muscle bundles. But then, that's appropriate also, isn't it?

  The Council on Foreign relations made sure no candidates, no Americans - made it to the national conventions of the two major parties. Those of you who attended your state convention witnessed the cheating, the lying, the coercion and intimidation. That's because the CFR picks the candidates who can run for office. Who runs the CFR? The international banksters who just gave their Federal Reserve system (which isn't Federal, any more than Federal Express...) control over all our major banks - which just forced our non-representatives in the District of Criminals to "bail them out" on the backs of the taxpayers, thus enslaving the entire country with debt.

  If all that isn't obvious by now, y'all are gonna get EXACTLY what you deserve.

• October 26, 2008

  10:59 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  glacierdude writes:

  I've actually spent more time "discussing" political issue on the Denver Post website but after exposing that you could not enter the term NObama but had no problem entering McShame and continueing to remind everyone of the bias....my account suddenly and mysteriously closed, never existed, no idea what happened. After reading these entries I see that I might be more in agreement with posters on the RMN anyhow. Wouldn't wrap my fish in the Denver Post.

• October 26, 2008

  11:11 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  joggle writes:

  glacierdude: Why do you even care about name-calling? That doesn't add anything to the discussion.

  I also post on the Post and have never had any trouble (I post as 'higgins' there). So long as you are respectful you will never have any problems and honestly it isn't a bad policy for life in general. I think one of the main things we generally have lost (if you were to compare the 2000s to, say, the Golden Generation) is respect. We don't respect journalists on TV. We don't respect people that disagree with us. We don't respect our elders (at least nothing like we did in the past). And so on. Most of the worst posts I see written are by people that have absolutely zero respect for others that disagree with them and if their posts get banned or their accounts closed I simply couldn't care less.

• October 27, 2008

  1:07 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  disenchanted1 writes:

  You repugnants need to get over yourselves! Your dictator G.W. has run this country into the ground and walked all over our rights! This election will be won by Obama because people are sick from the last 8 years. McCain is nothing but a washed up old wanna be and his running mate also. Give it up stop walking around bashing anything Obama does or says.

• October 27, 2008

  5:34 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  Reason writes:

  joggle, I think you have good points about McCain(particularly #4), but I certainly disagree about #5. I'm not going to pretend to be some sort of SCOTUS scholar, but I haven't heard of a controversial issue to come before the Supreme Court that has been decided by anything other than a 5-4 vote or 6-3 vote in some time(that I can remember anyway).

  I also think one can argue the relative weights of both candidates past associations, and personally, I find Obama to have a more questionable past. If you go to wiki and look through the revision histories for some of their past associates, you will find an interesting battle of Net partisans on both sides(A comment that cracked me up on Dailykos was the accusation that the rightists were trying to "scrub the internet").

  Obama has really turned me off with his arrogance, he reminds me of a leftist George W(maybe they can reminisce about doing lines together haha). I was fairly neutral to both candidates prior to the debates(go Ron Paul in 2012), but Obama pushed me further away each time.

  We can talk about what both candidates claim they will do in office, and whose plan is better, until we're blue in the face, but it has been a long time since I've viewed campaign promises as anything other than pretty words. I'd be very interested in a politician that promised to work to get the most out of the exorbitant amount of money the federal government already has, rather than pandering to social-economic class, but I won't hold my breath.

• October 27, 2008

  7:41 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  mytwosense writes:

  I don't post on the Post at all. The RMN forum is the only one I visit on the Internet, largely because I really do want to have discussions with folks who have varying opinions than I do.

  A good deal of of my positions are the opposite of the conservatives who post on here, and RMN's own conservative editorials. I have never had a single post removed, ever.

  I feel the RMN does welcome or at least tolerates drastically different opinions. The posts that I've seen deleted tend to be insulting, rude, or just downright ugly. And I believe they are deleted when a certain number of posters hit the suggest removal button.

  We're all adults here, there's no need to get so low in the mud. I guarantee in real life a lot of us who differ in our political opinions and world views would actually get along and find we have similar hobbies, senses of humor (about non-political stuff, that is!), musical taste, and so on.

• October 27, 2008

  7:50 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  mytwosense writes:

  GetReal: "Obama hasn't been in politics for long so we have little to go on regarding how he would act as President."

  He has been in politics for 12 years. Why do some of you insist on ignoring his eight years in the Illinois State Senate? Isn't it important that we have someone as president who also understands how state government is effected by federal government? The conservatives used to stand for state rights, I would think you would appreciate Obama's years of experience legislating at that level, even if you don't agree with his votes during those years.

• October 27, 2008

  8:25 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  SingleShot writes:

  Stumps. Brainstems devoid of higher cortical function. Period.

  Obama has long-standing Marxist connections. McCain underwent "training" (more like brainwashing) in Czechoslovakia while he was supposedly in the "Hanoi Hilton".

  The globalists run the show and they have stacked the deck, playing you people off one another until - surprise! - you no longer have a country.

  The level of ignorance here tells me that this once great Constitutional Republic - is long gone and never to return. Welcome to third-world servitude, peasants!

  Oh, and when I see a train pulling out of the station - headed to one of the camps - I'll just watch for a minute, safely hidden deep in the treeline - as you go off to your doom.

  "If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." - Copy to Clipboard
  -- Samuel Adams

• October 27, 2008

  9:42 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  jay writes:

  anything based on actual policy stances, singleshot, or are you going to follow reason into conspiracy theory land.

  please vote policy or consider staying home for the health of the country, people.

  http://www.johnmccain.com

  http://www.barackobama.com

  hint: biases regarding supreme court nominations based on beliefs in the supernatural doesn't count as "policy".

• October 27, 2008

  9:48 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  joggle writes:

  Reason: You don't need to be a SCOTUS scholar. Just look at who nominated the current justices. Only 3 of them have been installed by a Democrat president, and they are aged 88, 75 and 70. It's quite conceivable that within 8 years all nine of the justices could be nominated by a Republican president should McCain be elected. That's simply unacceptable to me.

  The current balance of the Supreme Court is relatively close, but still with a conservative majority (just look at the major decisions they made over the past year), but do you honestly think that all four of the liberal/moderate justices will be able to serve another 4-8 years? If just one more moderate justice is replaced they would have the equivalent of a filibuster-proof senate. But rather than just being a filibuster-proof majority for two years (like the Senate) it would be until one of them dies/retires and is replaced by a Democrat president which could be a good number of years in the future.

  If you're going to compare pasts, don't forget McCain certainly has a checkered history. His whole history isn't summed up by his POW status. He isn't married to his first wife. He crashed a number of Navy jets and knocked out power to part of Spain in one accident. He graduated almost dead last in his class (whereas Obama graduated first in Harvard). And he associated with a felon in the past and did fund raisers with him (as pointed out by David Letterman last week when he interviewed McCain).

  As for the debates, I honestly did not see arrogance from Obama (or at least not any more from him than McCain). McCain did not show much respect towards Obama in each debate, some more than others, while Obama quietly maintained his cool and never looked close to blowing a gasket. And how do you think women reacted when McCain said 'health of a woman' in quotes when talking about that exception in abortion laws? Was that not arrogance?

  McCain only eats at the finest restaurants in DC, he dumped his first, faithful wife in order to marry a very rich woman, etc. Does that sound like the actions of a humble, non-arrogant person to you?

• October 27, 2008

  10:54 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  daddyblt writes:

  If Obama is elected the next president of the United States, I am very much indeed fearful! I am not fearful because he lacks the experience that some say he should have to be fit to run the country. I am not fearful because of his views on foreign policies and the economy. I am fearful because some of the views and opinions being stated sound like something right out of the 1960's jim crow era, only proving that we have not matured as much as we thought we have since the days of lynching, bus boycotts, sit-ins and freedom rides!

  People criticized the views and opinions held by Dr. Martin Luther King when he was fighting for change. Just as they considered the actions of figures such as Rosa Parks, Malcolm X, Medgar Evers, Fannie Lou Hamer, and several other activists as extreme. But it all began with those soul stirring words, long marches, and extreme measures that got the wheels of change rolling.

  This election has the potential to be a bridge between several gaps infecting this country, or it has the potential to be a wedge that drives us all further apart. I did not vote for Bush in either of the last elections, but as an American I did the best that I could to support my president even when I did not agree with what he was doing. I did my best to trust his judgement and any of the other obvious lies that spewed from his mouth. Why? Because that is my job and responsibility as a citizen who loves his county. So if and when Obama is elected president, all of you who did not want him there, choke it up and deal with it like we have had to do the last 8 years!

  GO OBAMA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

• October 27, 2008

  11:28 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  Reason writes:

  I see your point about the Supreme Court, it is unfortunate to me that an institute supposedly representing impartiality is so governed by politics, but do you have any suggestions for changing it? Have any of the justices ever retired for political reasons during a certain presidential term?
  I didn't mean to imply that McCain has anything resembling a spotless past(Keating comes to mind), what I meant is that I don't trust someone who has a history of politically radical associates. Being quick to disown an old friend for politics doesn't really endear him to me either.
  I don't understand the constant references to the rank in class between the two. I wasn't aware that running for president president was a **** measuring contest. I think it foolish to draw any sort of relationship between academic performance decades ago and the current race.
  Temper is not arrogance, although I would never describe McCain as humble. Obama talks down his nose at his audience, I think you get a much better impression of him when he isn't preaching to a buttered choir who like that sort of thing(like when the guy in Florida asked him about what he was doing for the black community). Not to mention laughing while the other guy is talking, very amateur. If I were grading the debates, I would give them both Fs. Lots of fluff that doesn't say anything, and amateurish body language plays. If you want to see how a real statesmen talks, look up any speech made by Ron Paul, who would be one of the main contenders right now, if people actually wanted a new direction for the country.
  I don't condone what McCain did with his wife at all. It's not shocking to me(this is the land of "trading up" after all)but I hold it in the same contempt that I hold Obama's treatment of old friends like Wright. Respectable people don't hang their loyalties out to dry when they become inconvenient, that is the mark of trash. They're both rich, and bear no resemblance to the middle class.
  I'm not going to defend McCain, I don't think there is anything to defend. As far as I'm concerned, both are selling the same snake oil and will say whatever it takes to get elected. Lesser of two evils is all we have here, once again.

• October 27, 2008

  12:20 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  joggle writes:

  Reason: I looked at Ron Paul. I thought he gave one of the worst interviews on Meet the Press I had ever seen (and I've seen some whoppers). I'm judging on the basis of simply being fluent on the topics, logically consistent and able to argue your point of view, not on the grounds of whether I agree with them or not. Of course, Sarah Palin wouldn't dare go on Meet the Press and I'm sure she would give an even worse interview if given the chance (especially if the interview could be with Tim Russert as Paul's had been).

  As for Wright, I thought Obama's initial speech didn't hang Wright out to dry, and he explicitly said as much in that memorable speech. It wasn't until Wright was saying some rather harmful (and hurtful) things about Obama for several days (or weeks, my memory is a little fuzzy) that Obama cut all of his ties with Wright.

  "Have any of the justices ever retired for political reasons during a certain presidential term?"

  I'm sure that has happened at some point. It hasn't happened during the past 12 years that I've been paying attention though, but I'm sure that it has happened in the past. I wouldn't be surprised to find that the moderate justice that was appointed by Ford has been putting off retirement so that he may be replaced by a justice of similar mind as himself. But at that point it's arguable whether that's politics vs. philosophy (it blurs after a while).

  As for Obama's laughing, it was in response to some slap-on-the-face remarks by McCain (that non-partisan sites I've checked have described as false or gross exaggerations). A normal person would get angry. A comatose person would not respond. Obama laughed, which is probably the best response if you're trying to stay calm and collected.

  As for talking down his nose, do you know which candidate's debate performance I found most offensive? It was, by far, Palin's. She never showed the least amount of humility, not even false humility, during her debate. In all the debates I've ever watched she was the first candidate I've seen that outright refused to answer questions and said as much. I expect to see dodges to yes/no questions when the honest answer leaves a bad impression and could easily be cherry-picked for an attack ad later. It wasn't just the fact that she refused to answer all of the questions, but the way she talked to the TV viewer. I was under the distinct impression that she was either acting or was trying to talk to us as if we were children. I simply could not believe what I was seeing. I also couldn't believe how poor of a job she did of defending McCain against Biden's attacks (often not even trying during a time allocated for a rebuttal).

• October 27, 2008

  12:20 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  joggle writes:

  Generally I've been rather happy with the presidential debates. They actually are debates! Do you recall the 'debates' from 2004 and 2000? They more closely resembled the 'debate' with Palin (where you have a stump speech on one side and a quasi-debate on the other). Only the vice-presidential debates were interesting in 2000 and 2004 since they were actually debates.

• October 27, 2008

  1:23 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  SingleShot writes:

  Ah, the censors at RMN are alive and well!

  I'll remember that!

  Now, those of you who don't remember history - are repeating it right now.

  Do you know who financed the Bolshevik revolution in Russia? What relationship does that family have with what just happened to the major banks here in the United States - which are now either outright owned but most certainly controlled by the so-called non-Federal Federal Reserve?

  If you don't know that, you don't know what's going on.

  You don't understand history, so you don't know where you are.

  Good luck, all. May you get what you wish for since you so richly deserve it.

• October 27, 2008

  1:40 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  SingleShot writes:

  You know, this Obama rally reminded me of a story...

  There was a chemistry professor in a large college who had some
  exchange students in the class. One day while the class was in the
  lab, the professor noticed one young man, an exchange student, who kept rubbing his back and stretching as if his back hurt. The professor
  asked the young man what was the matter. The student told him he had a bullet lodged in his back. He had been shot while fighting Communists
  in his native country who were trying to overthrow his country's
  government and install a new Communist regime.

  While telling his story, he looked at the professor and asked a
  strange question: 'Do you know how to catch wild pigs?' The professor
  thought it was a joke and asked for the punch line. The young man said
  that it was no joke.

  'You catch wild pigs by finding a suitable place in the woods and
  putting corn on the ground. The pigs find it and begin to come
  everyday to eat the free corn. When they are used to coming every day,
  you put a fence down one side of the place where they are used to
  coming.

  'When they get used to the fence, they begin to eat the corn again and
  you put up another side of the fence. They get used to that and start
  to eat again. You continue until you have all four sides of the fence
  up with a gate in the last side. The pigs, used to the free corn,
  start to come through the gate to eat that free corn again. You then
  slam the gate on them and catch the whole herd.

  'Suddenly the wild pigs have lost their freedom. They run around and
  around inside the fence, but they are trapped. Soon they go back to
  eating the free corn. They are so used to it that they have forgotten
  how to forage in the woods for themselves, so they accept their
  captivity.'

  The young man then told the professor that this is exactly what he
  sees happening in America. The government keeps pushing us toward
  Communism/Socialism and keeps spreading the free corn out in the form
  of programs such as supplemental income, tax credit for unearned
  income, tax exemptions, tobacco subsidies, dairy subsidies, payments
  not to plant crops (CRP), welfare, subsidized housing, school programs,
  medicine, drugs, etc. We continually lose our freedoms, just a little
  at a time.

  We should always remember two truths: There is no such thing as a
  free lunch, and you can never hire someone to provide a service for you
  cheaper than you can do it yourself. If you see that all of this
  wonderful government 'help' is a problem confronting the future of
  freedom in America, you might want to send this on to your friends.

  If you think the free ride is essential to your way of life, then you
  will probably delete this email.

  God help us when the gate slams shut

• October 27, 2008

  2:54 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  joggle writes:

  SingleShot: "There is no such thing as a free lunch, and you can never hire someone to provide a service for you cheaper than you can do it yourself."

  The first part of that sentence is correct. Heck, in the aerospace industry we even have an acronym for that, 'TANSTAAFL: There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch'.

  However, the second part is clearly wrong and goes against basic (almost the most basic) economic theory. Ironically, just this year the Nobel Prize for economics went to the man who laid the groundwork for why even at the nation level it can be better to import a product than manufacture it within your own country and, more importantly, why you may both import and export a category of product, exporting one specialty while importing another.

  The basic reason that sentence is wrong is because it completely ignores opportunity cost, a very basic element of economics.

  As for history, yes I know quite a bit of that as well. In fact, I have a little quiz for you. Why did WWII pull the US out of the Great Depression? What broad, market-based approach finally worked? Lastly, what will there be left to socialize even if Obama wanted to when he takes office? Several major banks are already essentially government-controlled now and the auto industry seems to be following suit very shortly. Agriculture is already heavily subsidized. Is there anything left? Health care? I looked up the statistics of Germany, France and Greece on wikipedia and found that they all have better health than we do (based on infant mortality rate and life expectancy at birth--France has half of the infant mortality rate we do based on statistics in the CIA's factbook website).

• October 27, 2008

  5:21 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  SingleShot writes:

  Joggle,

  What you're describing is "corporatism". Apparently, you've gotten exactly what you've wished for. Who was it that coined the term "corporatism" and what ise the synonym most commonly used in place of the term, "corporatism"?

  WWII didn't pull us out of the depression. You're mistaken, there. The American taxpayer pulled us out.

  The international bankers - who own the Federal Reserve - finance both sides of wars - which they usually have a hand in starting. When they do that, they create money out of thin air. The money is "funny money", but the debt is real. When we're in a perpetual state of war, the treasury is drained, something Sun Tzu told us about thousands of years ago. The people learning that they can also plunder the treasury doesn't help.

  Eventually, when the debt from such a process becomes so large it becomes impossible to pay, the people of a nation under such duress start asking for government to solve all their problems because they are impoverished.

  This is Trotsky's "permanent revolution" and Orwell's "perpetual war for perpetual peace". By transferring wealth from the taxpayers to themselves, the elites turn a nation from one where self-rule used to prevail - to authoritarian, eventually totalitarian rule, like "corporatism", also known as fascism.

  For people like you, "war is peace freedom is slavery ignorance is strength". You're definitely some kind of collectivist, which precludes you from being an American, someone who believes in self-government, non-intervention and true peace. You're a wolf in sheep's clothing (the official symbol of the Fabian Socialists...) at the very least.

• October 27, 2008

  5:31 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  SingleShot writes:

  Joggle,

  If you want to understand what this country is really about, I can recommend the article at the following link:

  http://www.freedom-force.org/pdf/futu...

  The articles that follow complete the picture.

  http://www.freedom-force.org/pdf/futu...
  http://www.freedom-force.org/pdf/futu...
  http://www.freedom-force.org/pdf/futu...
  http://video.google.com/videoplay?doc...

  If the link doesn't work, you can find it on the same web page.

• October 27, 2008

  6:31 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  joggle writes:

  SingleShot: I've talked to people like you in real life. Do you also feel that the sixteenth amendment was never ratified by the states? Do you believe that we are still under martial law? Etc. If your answer is yes there's really no point in continuing a conversation.

  (BTW, my step-father agrees with you, but he's also a pathological liar. I've spent a number of hours looking this junk up before; I'm sure there's nothing new to report now).

  That was a very simplistic answer to WWII. Everyone in America pays sales tax and the great majority pay income tax. In WWII the US government nationalized several major corporations, including GM, for the war effort. They raised money from the public in the form of bonds. They raised taxes. It was probably the closest the US ever came to being run as a true socialist economy. And guess what buddy, it worked whereas every other approach during the previous 10 years had failed. There's A LOT more to the story, but it certainly involved nothing comparable to a market-based approach of any kind.

  I have read most major books in the dystopian genre, including 1984 and Fahrenheit 451. It's easy to imagine all sorts of patterns but you need to tie these to reality--and the more extreme your viewpoint the more effort you need to tie it to reality. I read many papers and watch shows like Charlie Rose, Meet the Press, Washington Week, the News Hour w/ Jim Lehrer, etc. And over the years since I first heard theories like the one you're espousing I have found very little real evidence to back it up. In addition, I try to make predictions over the next 2-4 years fairly often (such as if the US does x the outcome will be y). When the 2-4 years elapse and I find that most of my predictions were accurate I have a very good sense of how well I understand what is 'really' happening in the world.

  My current predictions:
  1) Obama will be elected
  2) If elected, the recession will continue for at least 2 more years (this prediction holds for McCain as well)
  3) The federal budget will not be balanced within 4 years--in fact I wouldn't be surprised to see it increase the first 2 years, deficit spending got us out of the Great Depression and is the typical remedy for a deep recession.
  4) The US will still have a troop presence in Iraq in 2 years--probably at the level we currently have in Afghanistan. It's quite likely the US will have more troops in Afghanistan than in Iraq 2 years from now.
  5) Unemployment will go up during the next 2 years and then go down for the 2 years after that.

• October 27, 2008

  6:32 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  joggle writes:

  My predictions at this time in 2000 for Bush were:
  1) There is a 50/50 chance of the US invading Iraq during the next 4 years
  2) The stock bubble would burst within the next 2 years
  3) The federal deficit would increase substantially (in line with what many main-stream economists were predicting)

  Care to make any predictions of your own? History will determine which one of us really have a better idea of what is going on.

  Even at this point I'm unsure with the election of Obama because something bizarre could happen that throws everything out of whack. But at this point it seems like a fairly solid prediction.

• October 28, 2008

  3:28 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  kz writes:

  Did you see how badly Obama disregarded Ken Salazar ? The channel 9 news showed Ken trying to get Obama'a attention as Ken was holding a small child. Obama just gave him one of his famous dismissive looks and brushed on past him. Sorry Ken you may call him your candiate but when it comes down to it does Obama really care about the needs of our community?

• October 28, 2008

  3:34 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  kz writes:

  wow I just looked at that pic, what was the phrase "walk this way?" "If I could walk that way I wouldn't need the talcum powder"

• October 28, 2008

  3:45 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  SingleShot writes:

  Joggle,

  A weak mind is like a microscope, able to magnify inconsequential things, but unable to receive things of great import.

  Sanity is a measure of how closely our minds and actions reflect comportment with natural law, it is a measure of how well connected with reality we are.

  You deny reality. You refuse to accept what is plain to see. That's denial, a mental illness.

  By the way, I do not resemble your relative. I don't lie. In fact, anyone who calls me a liar - is in real danger.

• October 28, 2008

  3:47 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  SingleShot writes:

  I don't need to engage in these worthless polemics.

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRLPG_...

• October 28, 2008

  4:16 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  SingleShot writes:

  For those who comprehend, no explanation is necessary. For those who do not, none will suffice.

  Do your own research. Find out. Don't believe the deliverers of propaganda, do not accept the "wisdom" of unruly, un-exercised and ill-educated minds.

  Obama is a collectivist. So is McCain. Both must abide a measure of fascism - because the American people are not ready to accept pure communism. The elites must maintain the illusion that we have a choice, that we still own property and that we're still free. So, for now, the furthest they can push us into the collectivist/slave mentality - is fascism, where those illusions are maintained.

  The taxpayer bailed us out of WWII, thanks in large part to the 1933 confiscation of American gold which helped shore up our economy after the great depression. Unfortunately, that probably fueled "operations" for WWII, which, by the way was financed by the same people who own the Federal Reserve. This is an historic fact. Grandpa Bush was even convicted of violating the "trading with the enemy act" and his business shut down - by our government. The military-industrial corporatists even tried to stage a fascist coup - which Major General Smedly Butler "outed".

  There is just so much history y'all don't know. It reminds me of that saying, "It isn't so much that [collectivists] don't know anything. It's just that they know so much that isn't so."

  Do the research. When you think you have the answer, you're probably wrong and short of the full picture. Keep digging until you see who's behind the entire thing.

• October 28, 2008

  4:48 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  joggle writes:

  SingleShot: Make some predictions for the next 2-4 years. If your predictions are accurate you are either very lucky or have a good understanding of reality.

• October 28, 2008

  4:54 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  joggle writes:

  BTW, I'm challenging you to make predictions because I know it to be absolutely, completely pointless to argue with you about history. I have researched and have argued with people like you in the past. I may as well be talking to a wall.

  So cut to the chase, make predictions. If you have such a superior understanding of reality it should be rather easy for you to make more accurate predictions than I can. There's still luck involved to be sure, but generally you have a higher chance of being correct if you actually have a solid grasp of what is currently going on and understand historical trends.

• October 28, 2008

  5:28 p.m.

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  SingleShot writes:

  Hyperinflation, more "bailouts", more nationalization of banks, WPA "New Deal" type programs, police state (which is already in place, but we'll have more of the same). Civil war is a strong possibility from all the intel I've gathered. History also sets a precedent, which you will ignore. The "Amero" will replace our dollar, out borders will be completely dissolved in a practical sense (as is nearly the case now) and our Constitution and Bill of Rights will be completely relegated to history as an "oddity", the American people having been reduced to authoritarian/totalitarian government in a high-tech feudal state.

  I predicted the current economic downturn years ago and I have hundreds of witnesses, who are grateful to me (and mostly my mentors) for convincing them of the reality which we all now face. They bought gold and silver - and most importantly, food, ammunition and other "hardware" of the "delivery" kind.

  The non-Federal Federal Reserve, owned by the same banking elite families who engineered the Federal Reserve act and the IRS act in 1913, now control the issuance of our money and credit on an international level. They have effectively installed their New World Financial Order right in our faces when our congress ignored the will of the people. They also control our foreign policy through their various globalist organizations like the CFR and TC. Both McCain and Obama are members and are close to the inner circle if not right in the middle of the innermost.

  There will be yet another impoverishing war (for us taxpaying serfs) which will further enrich the elite - which will further enable the elites while disabling the masses, burying them deeper into slavery.

  http://www.lexrex.com/enlightened/art...

  Obama might take "us" into Pakistan, using his youth brigades as cannon fodder - unless he turns them against the American people like the children of the Khmer Rouge did in Cambodia (Kampuchea). These are the orders of the globalist elites who stand to make trillions of dollars by financing both sides of the wars while simultaneously placing unpayable (in real terms) debt on the peoples of the world who must provide the infrastructure for this military industrial complex with their labor and taxes.

  You are right that someone who is truly educated - should be predictive. I've been right for so long, I'm sick of it, to tell you the truth. I wish I could be wrong for once. However, I have a track record that has stood the test of time - because I finally got some sources who actually knew who was doing what, when, where and how. This is done through a study of history, one you deny as being of value. That pegs you, by the way.

• October 28, 2008

  6:02 p.m.

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  joggle writes:

  SingleShot: To be clear, all of you predictions are for the next 2-4 years, correct? I've heard some of these predictions before but I'm asking for specifically the next 2-4 years, otherwise I will consider these predictions to be wrong (as I have in the past). I'm referring to your prediction about the unified currency (which was predicted back in Revelations), and the civil war (which was also predicted back in Revelations depending on your interpretation).

  I agree with some of your predictions, such as "New Deal" type programs. While the New Deal didn't pull the US out of the Great Depression, it did help lower unemployment a bit, kept a healthier amount of liquidity in the economy and added some needed infrastructure to the US. Even without the economic problem we need something of that order to fix our infrastructure, which happens to be in a much more lousy state than that of 'socialist' countries in Europe. You sure don't see bridges collapsing in Europe, do you?

  You may counter that it should be privatized. Well, due to the economic problem going on in the world it would be impossible for them to acquire financing at a low enough rate for it to be feasible.

• October 29, 2008

  9:13 a.m.

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  SingleShot writes:

  Joggle,

  This downturn has not yet hit bottom and when everyone figures out that their retirement savings are completely gone and that this election is entirely fraudulent, they are likely to rise up. You will probably see some public officials "lynched" in some way or another and the 3rd Infantry Division's BCT will activate and you will see them on our streets. That's just how these things go. So, yes, the next 2-4 years will see most of these predictions realized.

  http://www.newswithviews.com/Stang/al...

• October 29, 2008

  9:20 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  joggle writes:

  SingleShot: Noted and bookmarked. Be prepared to eat some crow in 2-4 years :-). (I'm sure I will as well, you can't be 100% accurate on these type of predictions)

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