Broncos' biggest problem: lack of identity
Downturn has team seeking true identity as it enters bye week
By Lee Rasizer, Rocky Mountain News (Contact)
Published October 21, 2008 at 1:35 p.m.
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Michael Pittman said the Broncos must avoiding playing the blame game if they want to turn around things.
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Quarterback Jay Cutler hasn't been nearly as productive in October as he was during an eye-opening September.
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Linebacker Niko Koutouvides mirrors the defense's frustration during another subpar performance Monday.
At 4-3 heading into their bye week, will the Broncos make the playoffs?
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The list of problems is long.
Too many turnovers. Too many points allowed. Too many missed tackles. Not enough grit or talent in certain areas.
But put all that aside for a moment, and the biggest issue of all emerges for the Broncos, 41-7 victims of a suddenly rejuvenated New England team.
They have an identity crisis.
"Teams with an identity know what they're going to give you every week," cornerback Champ Bailey said during a postgame interview Monday night. "And we don't know what the hell's going to happen every Sunday."
The offense certainly has that problem.
Are the Broncos the team that tore through opposing defenses for the first three weeks of the season or more akin to the group that has been pedestrian for the past month? And, other than all the recent giveaways - 12 in three losses in the past four games - are mounting injuries the primary cause of the dropoff in production?
The picture decidedly is more muddled for the Broncos' 30th-ranked defense, which is giving up 394.6 yards a game and is one point short of allowing the most points in the NFL.
The issue for that unit could be as simple as confusion over core philosophy.
Linebacker D.J. Williams said that is his primary concern.
"What type of defense are we?" Williams asked as the Broncos, despite the recent travails, hit the bye week with a 4-3 record and a one-game lead in the AFC West. "Are we a 3-4? A 4-3? Are we a finesse defense? Are we smash-mouth? Do we blitz a lot? Play zone? We've got to pick something and just run it and do it."
Williams isn't absolving the players of blame.
"We obviously have a problem. Week after week, we go in and talk about things and they're not getting fixed," he said. "Something has to change. And the coaches can only do so much. The players have to police themselves."
It's part of the message Williams plans to deliver today, when the team breaks down the Patriots horror show and practices for the only time before four days off.
"If they want to call 'man' (coverage), we have to make them comfortable enough that they know they can play 'man.' If they want to call zone, we've got to make them feel comfortable," Williams said. "It's a job for everybody."
None of the pass-coverage principles will matter much if Denver continues its struggles against the run. Even eight-man fronts aren't working.
In the past four games, the Broncos have allowed more average rush yards per game (191) than they did during the first five games of 2007 (187.6), a period that ultimately led to a scheme change and defensive coordinator Jim Bates' departure after the season.
"Stop the run. We've been saying it since preseason, the past nine, 10 games, even back to last year. It keeps biting us in the rear end," defensive lineman Ebenezer Ekuban said. "You can have 10 sacks, interceptions. It doesn't matter. If you don't stop the run in the NFL, you're going to lose."
The Broncos consistently have been out of gaps while losing far too many one-on-one battles this season. And, in a season-worst display against an injury- depleted Patriots backfield that was down to unheralded Sammy Morris, the Broncos allowed the biggest New England rushing output (257 yards) since the 1985 season, largely because Patriots players not only weren't blocked, the Broncos' open-field tackling was atrocious.
"We just got to play better, play harder, have a better attitude," Bailey said bluntly. "Our attitudes stink out there."
The stench wafted to the offensive side of the ball, too. The Broncos were playing short-handed in their receiving corps, and Patriots coach Bill Belichick designed a game plan that was successful in taking Brandon Marshall out of the game. And quarterback Jay Cutler's passes seemed to be affected after he banged his throwing hand on a helmet on the first play.
Then there's the Broncos' sloppiness - four turnovers at Kansas City, three against Jacksonville and five at New England.
"The bye's going to play a big part as far as mentally," Marshall said. "I think we need a little time to get away and decide what kind of team we want to be. We can be good or we can be sorry, as we've seen."
Again, it goes back to identity.
In the first few games, the Broncos offense was a gun-slinging group intent on pushing the field. Perhaps defensive adjustments have forced more patience and lessened killer instinct, but Cutler has not thrown the ball with the same accuracy that earned him the NFL Player of the Month award in September.
He has three touchdown passes and three interceptions the past two games, and his yardage totals have been season lows for three straight weeks.
The ground game has been decent, but not dynamic, with Michael Pittman starting at tailback, but breakout runs have been lacking all season.
The Broncos will welcome the return of touted rookie Ryan Torain for the Nov. 2 game against Miami. But Torain didn't play a preseason game, so he can't be expected to be a savior.
"The only thing you can do is keep believing," Pittman said. "You can't go in the tank because of an ugly loss on national TV with everybody watching. You've got to bounce back any way you can and try to stay positive and not point fingers and try to divide the team. You've got to accept it as a loss as a team. If people start going in the tank, our season's over."
Williams theorized the Broncos' youth makes it easier to avert such pitfalls because "they don't know how to react or what's going on," so they're more likely to buy into the veterans' positive vibe through all the problems.
"All we need is one good game to turn it around," he said.
But a frustrated Bailey seemed to indicate deeper issues are at work when he said he has "got a nasty attitude" on the field, "but it's not rubbing off on some people around here, and I don't like it."
If things don't change, Denver will have achieved its identity: also-ran.
ETC.: The Broncos brought in plenty of special teamers for a look Tuesday, including kickers Billy Cundiff, formerly of the Cowboys, and Garrett Hartley, who participated in some of the Broncos' offseason workouts. Also brought in were veteran punters Josh Miller and Scott Player, kicker Piotr Czech and long snappers Thomas Gafford and Boone Stutz . . . The Broncos re-signed running back P.J. Pope to their practice squad and released defensive tackle Steven Harris from the practice squad.
Staff writer Jeff Legwold contributed to this report.
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October 21, 2008
2:26 p.m.
Suggest removal
daves55 writes:
Only 1 problem area but it'd be tough to convince me that John Lynch couldn't tackle better tha ANY of our safeties... Lowry actually looked scared out there.... Bring Lynch back, if for nothing else, to show poeple how to TACKLE!
October 21, 2008
2:53 p.m.
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cutlerscannon13 writes:
I definately think there will be some changes over the 2 week bye period, at least I definately hope so.
The "D" needs to just get angry with the beatings they have received and take it out on the next few opponents. Our linebackers need to realize that tackling is part of the job and not a reason for drastic celebration.
Simply put in 5 remarks:
1- Less turnovers/penalties
2- More tackles
3- More attitude and determination on D
4- Hopefully a big show from the Train (Torrain)
5- Stick to your guns and dont be afraid to let Cutler throw the ball.
After a few rough losses (3 of 4) lets turn this season around with a new attitude and demeanor on D to give our O some confidence!
Lets go BRONCOS !!
October 21, 2008
3:16 p.m.
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Dynamicdave writes:
cutlerscannon13, glad I'm not the only one who thinks Denver can still get to the playoffs. So many whiners on today's blogs, it's pathetic. Half of them are talking smack, not just constructive criticism. They are showing their true colors. I use this word often and I'm finding out, more and more, just how correct I was... Bandwagon fans.
October 21, 2008
3:21 p.m.
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Hack_Patooey writes:
They have an identity crisis--no they don't. It's just that their identity is of a soft team used to being pushed around.
I hate to say this, but Cutler for all his talent has never really won much. Not at Vandy, and not here yet either. It is about winning games, winning pretty, winning ugly, but winning. Cutler needs to learn how to do what it takes to win, whatever that is. If it means letting the RBs carry the load (except you there, Mr. Hall, please go pick up your unemployment check and try not to drop it). If you have to throw thirty-five consecutive 5-yard slants until they cover it, you do that. Throwing down field because you can makes you Jeff George, not Joe Montana.
That said, this team, particularly the Defense, is soft. They hold people up until the whistle blows, how pathetic is that? No one fears catching a pass over the middle, they haven't jumped a route this year, and TEs in the secondary are like bulls running through an open field.
The linebackers are fast enough to overrun plays on both sides. Apparently they are also fast enough to avoid contact. The only real speed I've seen from Boss Bailey this year is from the field to the trainer. Webster is embarrassing, just pitiful. This is a middle linebacker? No, Brian Urlacher is a middle linebacker. Ray Lewis is a middle linebacker. Webster is a wasted roster spot.
Elvis is an interesting rusher, but they run over top of him all the time. Jarvis Moss, we traded up for this guy, remember? How's that working out? He tripped over himself last night and did get half a sack, so for his career he now has half a sack. So that's something. And I would be okay with that if he were mean. Not floppy-sloppy like Webster, but Shawn Merriman mean, but that's not happening either.
I've not seen passivity like this since...well since never. I guess having a lot of character guys is maybe not the best way to build a defense? Grow a pair, somebody!
October 21, 2008
3:21 p.m.
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milomonkey writes:
Until Pat Bowlen comes out of his stupor and fires Shanahan nothing will change with our beloved Broncos. Remeber that it is Bowlen's team and if he is content with mediocrity, we have to live with it as well. Shanahan is the one who has made the horrible draft picks and free agent picks. Let's see: He drafted Brandon Marshall and traded for Champ Bailey. That's 2 out of about 300 that have worked out well. The rest are mediocre, at best. Kansas City unmasked the Broncos for the losers that they are. Cutler is mediocre - he has a strong arm but so does Hulk Hogan. No playoffs until Shanny goes. I speak from experience - Shanmahan has only won one more playoff game than I have since Elway left.
October 21, 2008
3:22 p.m.
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broncobobmeridian writes:
This Bronco defense, is just as bad as last years... They did nothing at getting better during the off season. We all know that our record should be 2-5. That would be 1/2 game down on the Raiders, and 1/2 game up on the Chiefs, even though they beat up on us and its the ONLY GAME THEY WON. Our D-Line cant stop anyone. Not one of our current players(D-Line) would start for any other team.At least when we had the Browncos D-Line, we weren't ranked last. DJ Willaims is the only draftee on defense that deserves to play in the NFL. Are their any current Defensive players that start that were drafted by the Broncos?(That aren't a Bust... Moss, Crowder).
It will be the same old story at the end of the year, DC will be fired, Shanny will hire an old friend who hasn't proven that they belong.
This team is a least 5 years away from being a threat.
They scare no one.
PS Nate Webster.. Don't act like your good because you make the opposing teams RB great!
October 21, 2008
3:26 p.m.
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JimmyTheSaint writes:
Sure, Milo. That Terrell Davis pick sure was an awful one, eh?
October 21, 2008
3:33 p.m.
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broncobobmeridian writes:
Name all the Defensive picks that are currently on the team that would start for any good team? The only one would be DJ. Now thats a stat that Shanny should be proud of.
October 21, 2008
3:48 p.m.
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Jubei writes:
The team is so young that it becomes very easy to slip into desperation mode on both sides of the ball. Cutler and Co feel like they have to score on every down to offset the points the defense might give up. The defense gets panicky when they see the offense put them right back out on the field after they make a stop. So you wind up with the whole team playing tight, and playing to not lose the game rather than to win the game.
The whole team needs to learn patience. Patience on the QB's part to get through his progression and look off the defenders. Patience on the RB's part to wait for the hole and then hit it with authority. Patience on defense to play your gap and not overrun (I'm talking to you Nate Webster). And finally, patience on the part of the coaches to not give up on the things that won the first three games.
Finding the balance between playing patient and playing like a team possessed is the key to this young team finding an identity.
Jason
October 21, 2008
3:52 p.m.
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arvada_mark writes:
Yeah, if it weren't for Cuts coming back in for the 2nd half, I would have been watching CSI: Miami. The underlying theme here, boys, is that inspite of our god-awfulness this past month, our COACH still has us in 1st place. He is, after all, in charge. So if you are going to blame him for us being 4-3, then you must also blame him for us being in 1st place. I thought we showed a lot of toughness during that Jax game, but last night we were playing more like the Sisters of the Poor. Now, in my opinion, Shanny is still the Mastermind. For those of you who disagree (or those who are wrong, you choose), who should we hire in his place? And how will that enable us to start winning Super Bowls again? Playoff wins & appearances are worthless unless you win your last one. I'm not asking for cold fusion here, I'm just asking you share the wisdom you claim to have.
October 21, 2008
4:05 p.m.
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kidski52 writes:
This whole attitude is a organizational problem, it starts at the top, just like any other business. Any attitude of a contrite nature filters down from the top of any organization. Pat Bowlen needs to put the fear of god(him) into anyone below him in the organization. If EVERYBODY is accountable you'll see more concentration and willingness to cooperate in order to acheive a goal (win) no matter the sacrifice. Come on Pat, get in someones face.
October 21, 2008
4:14 p.m.
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shawnraiders81 writes:
Interesting post about Mike Shanahan, being a Raiders fan I am biased, but when Reeves was coach in denver didnt Shanahan get canned as an assistant for the famous insubordination line that our beloved owner loves to use (Al fire anyone Davis)?
I thought Shanahan and Dan Reeves hated eachother at least I thought I heard that somewhere....
Anyway like I said I am biased and only on this blog cause I am at work and can not get on the Raiders blog, but love to talk football, I think Dan Reeves is a more stand up guy than Shanahan anyday, but i'm a Raider fan so you know....
But think about it, Shanahan has done nothing since Elway (and to be honest when Cutler compared himself and said he has a stronger arm than Elway I laughed.)
The Raiders have done nothing since Gannon.
The Chiefs have done nothing since Trent Green.
The Chargers have really done nothing since Stan Humphries.
The QB makes a team or should I say pushes them over the edge.
October 21, 2008
4:18 p.m.
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jlstaud writes:
It's funny that all these players are fussing about a lack of identity. So, explain to me where the identity comes from? It seems to me it isn't so much about the players as it is the coaches. They set the identity. They decide if we run or pass or run the 3-4 or 4-3. It's in their hands. The lack of identity comes from the top and I think you're hearing it in the words of the players. Shanny has lost control of this ship and now the inmates are grumbling. His time has come and gone. I don't think he can't coach, he just needs a change of scenery and the Broncos need a fresh start.
October 21, 2008
4:53 p.m.
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shawnraiders81 writes:
I guess it's spelled Reaves......
October 21, 2008
5:14 p.m.
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CSU5280 writes:
How about TACKLING!!! Every time they get close to the ball carrier its like they just bump into him. Lets try wrapping our arms around them and knocking them to the ground....
to me the problems and mistakes point to poor coaching... poor game plans, lack of adjustments during the game, poor coaching during the week leading up to the game. you don't have this many mistakes and lack of intensity without poor coaching.
October 21, 2008
5:24 p.m.
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den2mke writes:
All things considered, I would have liked to see what would have happened had the Broncos actually gotten, say, 10 points out of those first 2 drives. We were running the ball down their throat and this would have put some needed pressure on an inexperienced QB.
If you're Shanahan you have to cut Hall this week. Anything less would set the expectations that his mistakes were acceptable. KO returners can be found, probably among current personnel, and there's no way you could possibly trust this guy any more. He single-handedly destroyed the momentum of this game--twice. No big penalties before that, a defensive stop after first drive...Just tragic!
While no one's going to assert that the Broncos have the most talented D in the league, the talent seems more serviceable than what's being shown. The majority of these players have been starters elsewhere. While I suppose the argument could be stretched either way--why did others part with them vs. they should at least know how to be professionals--I find Williams' comments a bit telling: Like last season, this defense seems lost between multiple schemes.
I would certainly expect some big changes this week if Shanahan's looking to save this season...
October 21, 2008
5:25 p.m.
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LongtimeBroncFan writes:
How many times has Shanahan changed defensive coordinators since the Superbowl? There are a lot of coaches that have had success from Bill Walsh's influence (Shanny, Cower, Holmgren…). The difference between the two is that Shanahan hasn't developed any of his prodigies into success stories - sorry Kubiak (maybe too soon as head - or had a bad mentor in Shanahan). This year is lost defensively and unless we cut out the turnovers, there aren't many chances to outscore the remaining opponents. Brian Billick should be bored breaking down plays for the NFL Network. Bowlen should bring him in to make this D something respectable.
October 21, 2008
5:32 p.m.
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bronco4428 writes:
YOOOO PEOPLE SHUT THE HELL UP ABOUT FIRING SHANNY ITS ANNOYING AND YOU SOUND STUPID...HE HAD THIS TEAM 3-0 AND THROWIN 30 + POINTS UP A GAME WHERE WERE ALL YOU PEOPLE THEN....YOU SPEAK NONSENSE......IM A BRONCO FAN FROM NYC....DIE HARD SINCE 85...I WAS ON THE 50 YARD LINE FOR THE JAX GAME ....AND I DONT KNOW MAYBE IM WRONG WAS THAT SHANNY THAT FUMBLED THE BALL ON THE 7 YARD LINE GOIN IN FOR A 14-3 LEAD? WAS IT SHANNY WHO SCRAMBLED AND LOST THE BALL AGAIN DRIVING FOR ANOTHER SCORE? OR MAYBE THAT WAS HIM THAT FUMBLEED THE BAL NOT ONCE BUT TWICE YESTERDAY WHEN THE SCORE WAS 0-0 ...COULD HAVE BEEN 10-0 IN THAT GAME LAST NIGHT......THERE ARE 3 OFFENSIVE WEAPONS ABOVE AVERAGE TO ELSIT PLAYERS THAT ARE HURT ON OFFENSE AND IT WAS CLEAR CUTLER WAS HURT...PEOPLE GET A CLUE SHUT YA MOUTHS ABOUT SHANNY HE AINT THE PROBLEM...WE NEED A FEW IMPACT PLAYERS ON DEFENSE THAT WILL BE ADRESSED..AND IT WILL BE.....WHERE THE HELL WERE ALL OF YOU WHEN WE WERE 3-0 TELL ME I WANN KNOW...WE HAVNT HAD SHEFFLER ROYAL MARSHALL STOKELY ON THE FIELD AT THE SAME TIME ALL YR....THE OFFENSE WILL BE FINE THE DEFENSE NEEDS A FEW MORE PLAYERS AND WHEN THEY GET THEM ALL YOU BANDWAGON FANS STAY HOME...CUZZ THIS TEAM IS 3 OR 4 FRONT 7 IMPACT DEFENSIVE PLAYERS AWAY FROM GOIN TO A SUPER BOWL...BRONCOS WILL BE FINE...THEY WILL PULL TOGETHER ELIMINATE THE MISTAKES AND THEY WILL BE IN EVERY SINGLE GAME THEY PLAY IN NO MATTER IF THE DEFENSE IS BAD..
October 21, 2008
6:09 p.m.
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freddyfender writes:
An identity the players say.....ya, it is of a soft defense! Whether you play 3-4 or 4-3 you still have to make a tackle and show some fight!....don't blame the coaches....players play... the broncos defense stinks right now. I'm a fan and have been a fan for 30 years (for those of you who say we are "bandwagon" because we criticize the defense). Guys just get an attitude and make a tackle, PLEASE!
October 21, 2008
6:31 p.m.
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jlstaud writes:
bronco4428 you my friend are out of your freaking mind! I have been calling for Shanny's firing for the last five years. The reality is the Broncos have won one playoff game since the 98 season. That's right, one playoff game in an entire decade. For the last ten years I've listened to idiots like yourself tell me we're just a few impact players away from a super bowl. Well, I'm sick of hearing it! We've changed the players, we've changed the assistant coaches and the result has been the same. It is time for Shanny to get out of Denver. He's lost the support of the community and its starting to show that he has lost his team. When you have multiple players saying "we quit" and "we don't know who we are" its obvious that it is time for a change at the top. You can only last for so long in any particular city and his time has gone.
October 21, 2008
7:18 p.m.
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AZBroncosFan writes:
I think the identity thing brings up a good point. If guys are not sticking to their assigned areas its probably because they get mixed up between the schemes. Maybe we ought to go to a set scheme and see how it goes over the bye week. Also I bet Bailey is referring to guys being in the wrong place at the wrong time and not admitting it. Webster comes to mind. I saw even the D line was out of place at times because I saw Williams smacking some of them telling them where they were supposed to be. Maybe the players are confused and maybe we need to make it a bit more simple for them. Stick to your area or dont play. Put in Spencer Larson at LB if they dont want to. He is a disciplined player and can tackle way better than most of those guys on the field and probably the only reason he is not playing LB is because he is not as fast as them. I have seen Larson play LB in person here in Arizona and that guy can hit, tackle, lead the team AND stay disciplined enough so he sticks to his area. I say give him a shot in practice you never know.
October 21, 2008
9:08 p.m.
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Dynamicdave writes:
jlstaud, you're a moron. We're better off without you as a Denver fan. I hear the Raiders got room in their "nation".
October 21, 2008
9:40 p.m.
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Cutler6 writes:
Hack_Patooey, I am so sick of people saying that Cutler never won much. CUTLER played at Vanderbilt, not your powerhouse college football team. Elway, never won much (Stanford) when he was in college and not much his first three seasons, yet he is revered in Denver, give Cutler a few more seasons and a halfway decent defense, my gosh Cutler has probably more pressure to put the team on his back than Elway did, since Cutler's defense is about half as good as the defenses Elway played with
October 21, 2008
10:55 p.m.
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jrhino writes:
champs right -- hit somebody anybody. and then hit them again.
If you dont have a chip on your shoulder after the way you played defense, let me help. you stunk.
October 21, 2008
10:58 p.m.
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can_am_broncofan writes:
how old is atwater now? i think he could play better defense than our current bunch even at his age now.thought:hire him as some kind of coach cuz he had heart and talent and was the heart of the defence during his time. how about darrien gorden? is he available? throw romo in there too! if this season is to be salvaged after such a promising start, changes need to be made now...coaches and players . why wasn't anything done at the trade deadline? did the front office not see the problem with the d' on the horizon, or did they just think the problem would go away on it's own?
October 22, 2008
12:52 a.m.
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jlstaud writes:
Dave, actually you are the moron. You came in here, called me a name and never even made a point. Please enlighten me with all your football knowledge before you call me moron. Fact is, you can't argue with one playoff win in a decade. This team has gone absolutely no where since John and TD, they've made all the changes with personnel and assistant coaches and still nothing. There is only one more change that can be made and that is at the top!!!
October 22, 2008
8:05 a.m.
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cutlerscannon13 writes:
Actually Jlstaud I think the majority of the blog would agree with DD, he know exactly whats he's saying and because of your moronic comment needed not to say anything to wasily sound like a genius in your comparrison. So one playoff win in 10 years correct? Now don't get me wrong, I would have like more, but we have had a struggle with talent since Elway left and there are plenty of teams with 0 playoff appearances in the last decade!! So you know what ... I will take my one win and be happy with it.
Shanny is the guy in Denver, period, and like many have said before the players need to play... are you telling me that Norv Turner needs to be canned because his team FULL (and even though I despise them they are FULL) of talent can't perform, I mean the best RB since BS and ES to step on the field, a sturdy O and D line with good receivers and DBs and great lbs? PLAYERS NEED TO PLAY!! I do recall they get paid millions to do their job.
GO DD & GO DENVER
-- ps -- Let's hope someone can step up and provide some leadership and ability on D with the Bailey's out for a few games!
October 22, 2008
8:09 a.m.
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JimmyTheSaint writes:
Cutler6 is right.
Check out what Cutler's had to work with. It's arguably much worse than what Elway had for the first 5-6 seasons. I still hear the name Tony Lilly and get chills (not the good kind) down my spine. And what about the revolving-door-every-year-with-mediocre-running-backs strategy?
At least Shanny's gone from TD to Olandis to Mike Anderson to that buffoon we sent to DC. His running game's hard to argue with statistically.
Much like politics (it's the economy, stupid!), this argument should be IT'S THE DEFENSE, GUYS! Or lack there of. That Jacksonville game there were cheerleaders closer to the Jags receivers than our defenders on a third of the plays. With Scheffler, and everyone else healthy for the first 3 games, we could score enough to make you forget about how awful our defense is (more offense--more time off the clock--less for the opponents, and voila! the defense LOOKED better. But wasn't. Mirage.)
I'd like to hear the ideas for replacement. Cowher? He's not interested, and would be a terrible fit. Parcells? Are you crazy? Talk about a disaster. Some new guy? roll of the dice.
Fact is, it takes a few years to solidfy once you find your franchise QB. And it's a game of injury. With a healthy Stokely and Scheffler, this team's 6-1 and our defense would be looking better, less time on the field, more breathing room.
October 22, 2008
8:32 a.m.
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sbhchawk writes:
jlstaud, you want a fact, OK. But like most things in life being told is not nearly as effective as learning for yourself. So here is a little challenge for you. Since old John retired I want you to go and compare the Bronco's winning percentage in that decade to the other 31 teams. The Pats is better, the Lions are worse so why don't you enlighten us where the Bronco's are with this horrible coach with two losing seasons in 14 years. Also, how many losing seasons did Cowher have as coach of the Steelers. People say he is the second coming (always quit on a high note) of Walsh or Parcels. I'm not Dave, who you asked to make a point, but I think he might back me.
Do the Broncos need to improve, without question. But please let me know what team doesn't? Chargers and Cowboys both have the best overall talent and they haven't won a superbowl or many playoff games either. So what model do you want the Broncos to follow? How many teams have consistent performance better then Shanny's?
Education leads to knowledge which leads to sound logic my Bronco friend.
October 22, 2008
9:04 a.m.
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Rutabaga writes:
This Bronco team is now stinky, like smelly socks that get stuffed under the bed for a year and then you find them in a dust ball spider web. What do you do when you find stinky socks? You can throw them away if they got lots of holes. You can wash them with tons of bleach. You can wear them just like they are and pretent they are just great because they are you best socks. This team is kind of like stinky socks. What should we do with them?
October 22, 2008
9:06 a.m.
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jlstaud writes:
I could give a rip about his winning percentage in the last ten years. The fact still remains that he has exactly ONE playoff win in a DECADE. Regular season wins are nice, but they don't keep your job. We have changed qb's, rb's, coaches, coordinators. We've brought in free agents, drafted new guys and still no change in the outcome of our seasons. If you want to go along your merry way and be happy with that then fine. I will point out however that most of his wins during this time have been in the months of September and October. Then his team gets figured out and beat to hell in November and December so they can watch the playoffs from the comfort of their own home! As for coaches who are out there to bring in, I never brought up Cowher or Parcells. I really don't care who they bring in, I just believe it is time for a change.
October 22, 2008
9:55 a.m.
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sbhchawk writes:
I would say thats part of the problem, you don't care who they bring in. And as 3 coachs have been fired this season already, there aren't many good coaches out there. And no you didn't mention Cowler or another coach, my bad, many other did that. Most teams don't find one in a decade. Also has the roster turned over in 14 years. Yeah, the average player last 3.4 years. Do you still want 35 year olds making up the majority of your roster? Of course they brough in more players, they get old. Atwater, Elway, Rod and all the other can't play anymore. What roster doesn't have constant change? Education, which you stated you don't want helps clear up why shanny is good. Things have to be put in context. Writing I want better, I want better but without logical reasons on how this is possible is ignorance. Again what model do you want the Broncos to follow. Do you have one? Or you just want better because thats, well better?
And do you think there has ever been a team in first place with so many upset fans?
October 22, 2008
9:59 a.m.
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spencerr writes:
dynamicdave,
Why don't you pull your lip over your head and swallow.
Just because someone gets frustrated with their team doesn't give you the right to just start throwing insults.
I know when you read these posts bashing the Broncos, you just want to go into a corner and cry like a little girl. I know it is just natural for you to lash out at someone, even if they are pointing out the truth.
Be a man. Stop crying. Life goes on without the Broncos. Life goes on when someone talks trash about them.
October 22, 2008
10:24 a.m.
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spencerr writes:
As far as coaches go, there is no one available better than Shanahan.
The next time Belichek, Gruden, or Dungy is available, they should jump all over it. Or, if Schottenheimer or Vermeil decide they want back in the game (though I don't like either much because they are babies).
Until then, what can you do? No way, no how should they hire someone who is still unproven or hire a never-has-been like the San Diego Chargers did with Norv Turner (when they already had a better coach).
October 22, 2008
10:29 a.m.
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jugdish writes:
FORK. STICK. DONE.
Start studying the draft and free agency, folks.
Broncos should now play all the young dudes on D.
See what they can do and what you'll have for '09.
Start tinkering with that 3-4. Put Moss at OLB.
DE=Crowder/Kenny Peterson
NT=DeWayne Robertson/Marcus Thomas
DE=Marcus Thomas/Elvis Dumervil
OLB=Moss/Woodyard
MLB=Niko
MLB=Webster/Larsen
OLB=DJ Williams
CB=Jack Williams
CB=Dre Bly
SS=Roderick Rogers
FS=Josh Barrett
The "O" should experiment a bit with more wides and 2TE sets.
Right when Torain is ready he should start.
Get FB's Hillis and Larsen more involved. Block & screens.
Practice some smashmouth with Pittman and Torain.
Work on deep outs with Royal and Marshall.
Time to prepare for next year.
THE DRAFT.
Broncos will need to pick a leader at MLB to run the 3-4.
Maualuga and Laurenititis will be top 15 selections.
Will also need to draft a cornerback like Darius Butler.
Safeties and safeties and defensive linemen should go next.
Offense will need a possession WR, and young guard to groom.
FREE AGENCY
Defensively the team will need linemen. Guys who are high motor and can rotate in and out of a 3-4 DL set. Watch to see if a big NT is available. Need to pick blue collar physical overachievers.
Some good young LBs like Dansby and Vilma may be available. At CB it would be wise to look at Nnamdi Asomugha. That would be wise money spent as he would pair well with Champ and is not afraid to tackle. It'd hurt Al Davis, too. Safety is a huge need and the FA depth is shallow.
Offensively, RB is a need. So is interior OL depth. A 3rd WR and TE also needed. Would be great to see if Broncos can wrangle RB Laurence Maroney away from the Patriots. That marriage is on the rocks.
October 22, 2008
11:09 a.m.
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Jubei writes:
DJ hit the nail on the head. Continuity is everything on defense. Look at the Steelers: LeBeau has been there since the dawn of time. Consequently, they happen to be the best zone-blitzing 3-4 team in probably the last 15 years. Gee, maybe running the same system and drafting talent to fit that system is a good thing.
So with that in mind, here are my thoughts in no particular order:
- Shanny stays. You brainiacs out there calling for his head need to realize that change for the sake of change is not usually a good thing.
- Slowik stays. But with the proviso that he picks a scheme and sticks with it. This season is starting to look like flailing and dart throwing on the defensive game planning. (Maybe the reason why the defense is confusing itself is that they aren't running what they ran in camp).
- Shanny realizes that his forte is picking OFFENSIVE players, not defensive players. Much like Belichick is to picking on defense, Shanny is to picking on offense. So let your defensive coaches and your scouting department have the final say on the defensive draft/FA acquisitions.
- Shanny resists his annual urge to blow up the defense side of things during the offseason. Patience, Grasshopper. You have to pick a DC, a scheme, and players to fit that scheme. Then give it time to make an objective decision about the results before you toss a grenade in the defensive meeting room at the first sign of adversity.
The point is average players will likely play below average ball when the scheme, personnel, etc. change on a daily basis. And really, all we need is for the offense to stop putting the defense right back on the field, and for the defense to just be ok. Not great, just ok. Blame the defense all you want, but point the finger at Cutler and Co for basically making them play the whole game.
Jason
October 22, 2008
12:39 p.m.
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Cutlers_the_bomb writes:
I think that the thing Denver really needs to focus on is getting better safeties, getting more talented rookie corners in the draft to learn from Champ, get some absolute monsters for D-End (ones that just live off of sacking the QB), and draft a MLB in this year's draft. As for offense, we really have a lot of quality players on our line (Kuper, Clady, Harris and Licthenstieger are all young, and Hamilton is only 31 at most), our receiving core can just look for maybe another receiver to become a slot receiver to eventually replace Stokley, and maybe look at another big-name RB. We need to find a feature back; we were a much better team when we had a feature back like Portis (although I'm pulling for Torain to become that back, with Young being the home-run hitter).
Either way, I don't think it was a terrible decision signing Boss. Yeah, he gets hurt a lot, but you never know how someone's going to turn out; he had a lot of upside to make it a worthwhile risk in the sense he's faster than many corners in the league, and he's big. He can cover most receivers even, and that's why we grabbed him.
October 22, 2008
1:24 p.m.
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spencerr writes:
Their entire D needs some work. DJ Williams and Champ are the only two that should have guaranteed long-term jobs. Safety, D Line, Corner, Linebacker...they need help in all those places.
It starts with the line though. Good pass rush, at least for part of the game this week, but the run stop is still lacking.
October 22, 2008
4:15 p.m.
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Dynamicdave writes:
jlstaud , still a moron. All that you've done since getting on the blog, is bash the Broncos and the fans and talk smack. Doesn't feel good, does it? You got on here telling people they are out of their freaking mind. But, I see, what's good for the goose, isn't good for the gander, eh? Can dish it but can't take it? As far as firing Shanahan, that is the dumbest thing I've heard. So the Broncos are struggling. So what? You fail to realize how young they are. They are a team full of youth, so yes, there will be bumps in the road. They are rebuilding and to still be in 1st place is exceptional. You sit there and spout off to "bronco4428" and call him an idiot. Don't come off with your "holier then thou" act. You're just as guilty. So, wipe your tears.
October 22, 2008
4:19 p.m.
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Dynamicdave writes:
spencerr, get over yourself.
October 22, 2008
5:27 p.m.
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shanahanbeliever writes:
Just relax everyone. The team will get it together. After playing and being around football my whole life, it is really obvious what the problems are on defense and my football mentor said it best, it comes down to tackling with an attitude. We broke down all of the games this year and we see the same trends for each game, when the players wrap up then opposing offensive drives stop. On Monday, the scheme was perfect and players were in the proper positions but player did not wrap up and finish tackles. On offense the first two drives were moving very good. the team was converting first downs with regularity until Andre Hall lost concentration and fumbled the ball twice. Remember with a young team these type of turn over are hard to rebound from. As fans we all should relax and not panic, this game works in cycles, the team is very young and we will get better with time. If the team makes the playoff then it is good but do not be surprised if the Broncos make a real run at the super bowl next year because of age.
October 22, 2008
5:32 p.m.
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Nick_Shadow writes:
You will not win football games with the turnover count the Broncos have, period.
It is also something the next team feeds on.
October 22, 2008
6:06 p.m.
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Dynamicdave writes:
shanahanbeliever, agreed. I said it before, Denver is, what, the 2nd youngest team in the NFL? KC, I believe is 1st? People get so excited and start chanting, "Woe is me. All is lost". Not me. We are in 1st place with a bye and San Diego has to play the Saints in London. The Broncos just have to pull together as a team. Shore up the areas that suffered injuries and play on. They get paid the big bucks to do just that. I did notice Jack Williams, tapping a DT over, because he was in the wrong position. Nice to see the young kid, knowing his assignment. He's going to get his chance to play, now that Champ is down. Should be an interesting game against Miami.