Tancredo to guv: Denver violates immigration law

By Judi Villa, Rocky Mountain News

Published October 17, 2008 at 3:11 p.m.

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Rep. Tom Tancredo

Gov. Bill Ritter

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October 17, 2008

3:24 p.m.

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VoiceOfTheRockies writes:

"Illegal immigration re-emerged as a hot-button issue last month after an illegal immigrant broadsided a pickup truck and sent both vehicles careening into a Baskin Robbins in Aurora. Two women in the pickup truck and a 3-year-old boy inside the ice-cream shop were killed. Francis Hernandez, 23, had been arrested numerous times but never deported."

Someone up high should lose their job over this and the finger pointing has begun...
October 17, 2008

3:28 p.m.

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BigSky182 writes:

Governor Ritter is absolutely 100 percent committed to public safety," Dreyer said. "He is 100 percent committed to complying with the law. That has never been in question."

... Except for a couple of hundred cases where he (as the District Attorney) allowed Illegal Immigrants to plea bargain various crimes (including violent ones) down to "Agricultural trespass" so that he wouldn't have to deport the poor illegals.
October 17, 2008

3:28 p.m.

Diff writes:

(This comment was removed by the site staff.)
October 17, 2008

3:41 p.m.

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BigSky182 writes:

Ain't this just the cherry on top!!

Obama wants to give them driver's licenses:
http://www.linkedin.com/redirect?url=...
October 17, 2008

3:46 p.m.

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chester writes:

Frankly, decent Coloradans are tired of soon-to-be-ex-Congressman Tancredo and his one trick pony.

If goods and capital can move freely from the Canadian Arctic to the Southern tip of South America, people should be able to do the same.

Frankly, this Coloradan is getting tired of the racism and hatred that permeates so much of the anti-brown people.

If our new residents were Swedes or Danes, we would not be hearing a peep out of them.
October 17, 2008

3:48 p.m.

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fmikey writes:

Diff,
Please provide some basis and documentation for your personal attack on Tancredo. Do you not agree that the law should be complied with? Your silly, hysterical rant says nothing, and merely pollutes this venue. If you have facts, evidence, etc to verify that Tancredo is "stinking up the state", please provide them in a mature, adult manner.
Otherwise you should keep your childishness to yourself...
October 17, 2008

3:49 p.m.

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T1anda writes:

Yep..It's true! Wolf Blitzer of CNN had to ask Obama THREE times if he wanted to give illegals drivers licenses! After waffling and stumbling, errrring and ummmming Obama finaly said YES!! It's documented!!
October 17, 2008

3:49 p.m.

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ou8one2 writes:

After watching Chickenlooper, Ritter, Barry, and the DNC, I have come to the conclusion that they are corrupt to the core. They ignore and break laws at will, with actvist judges backing them all the way; making laws from the bench against the will of the people.
October 17, 2008

3:52 p.m.

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chickenlittle1234 writes:

Good to see One Issue Tom still on the case. Snore.

The problem of illegal immigrants is directly tied to the economy.. Failing economy? Fewer illegal immigrants, including those that Tancreepo hired for home renovations.
October 17, 2008

3:57 p.m.

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ColdShot writes:

It is not anti brown chester you race baiter!! Its ANTI ILLEGAL!
October 17, 2008

3:57 p.m.

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BE_REAL writes:

Not only are these illegal imigrants breaking our laws, but they are also affecting the economy of our state. Besides the cost of imprisonment, and the free health care, and the free schooling they are receiving, they also take good jobs from our legal residents. You ask any plumber or constuction company why there income's have fallen over the last few years. The answer is simple. When your competition hires an all illegal crew, and doesn't charge a reasonable rate for there labor, then you must lower your rate or you don't get any jobs. Has your teenage child tried to find a job? Most fast food restraunts won't hire you unless you speak spanish, it's the same in the mall's. They claim these are jobs the normal American public won't take. Be Real America, wake up and smell the coffee!!
October 17, 2008

3:59 p.m.

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Beergut writes:

Haven't we kicked Tancredo out of the state yet?
October 17, 2008

4:04 p.m.

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Devil_Dog writes:

Diff writes:

I sincerely wish Tom Cancredo would take a long walk off a short deep water pier!
With maybe about a 100#s of dead weight tied around his waist...

He continues to STINK up the state and make us look like a back-water bunch of idiots and bigots -
What a JERK - you have embarrassed this state enough,

Tom: Shut up and GO AWAY already!

Diff

Most of the rest of the state wishes YOU would take that long walk. This is NOT about bigotry this is about the LAW and people not abiding by it. Perhaps YOU are the real bigot. Quit playing the race card, and trying to drum up support from the POOR ME whiners of the world. Illegal's are a drain on our economy and are endangering our society no matter their race or origin. Perhaps you might feel better about things if it was your little boy that got killed?
October 17, 2008

4:05 p.m.

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BRM writes:

If illegals are already driving (no one is disputing that) why not make them jump through the hoop of passing a written and behind-the-wheel test? After some of the horrible accidents they have caused recently, wouldn't that make it safer? It seems very hypocritical to whine and moan about illegals driving erratically and then offer no solutions. Deportation isn't going to just happen overnight. And I agree, if they were European, most folks wouldn't have their panties in such a bunch.
October 17, 2008

4:05 p.m.

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NEPats79 writes:

Can't we wait for the results of an audit before we start assigning blame?
October 17, 2008

4:07 p.m.

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BRM writes:

No. We're Americans, we blame first! LOL
October 17, 2008

4:08 p.m.

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Himtngal writes:

Leave it to Evan Dreyer (Ritter's stunt man) to call this a political stunt and says the focus should be on the economy. Does he not understand that illegal aliens in this sanctuary city are a drain on our economy? Dreyer should have been let go a long time ago after his less than honest and dirty low down diatribe when he trashed Ice Agent Voorhis who was vindicated after Ritter's witch hunt. If Ritter can't control Dreyer, he will never solve the illegal alien crisis in Colorado. Tancredo for Governor 2010!
October 17, 2008

4:09 p.m.

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Devil_Dog writes:

Hey chester why not talk about the real problem not the hype people like you attach to it? This is NOT about race, no matter how hard you try to make it so.
October 17, 2008

4:10 p.m.

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BigSky182 writes:

Chester I could care less what color they are. If they are here illegally then they need to be sent home.

Period.
October 17, 2008

4:12 p.m.

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BLauren writes:

Tancredo in an incompetant schmuck
October 17, 2008

4:16 p.m.

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BRM writes:

"Gov. Tancredo" Best laugh I had all day!!
October 17, 2008

4:16 p.m.

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Nobama writes:

Tancredo for President!
October 17, 2008

4:21 p.m.

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Diff writes:

fmikey - documentation?
- The best available is every time TC opens his BIG FAT MOUTH!
As for Basis - I think he is a bigot and jerk - and his jacking his Jaw constantly on his obsession about people who are anything but white - reflects poorly on the whole state of Colorado -
Bottom line - I am sick of his line and I don't like him - that is Basis enough for ME- If you disagree fine, but I need to prove NOTHING to you, or anyone else to express MY opinion!
October 17, 2008

4:24 p.m.

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Diff writes:

Devil_Dog - thanks for re post my words -

and I think you too can take the walk you and every other closet bigot in the country - it's old and tired and long overdue to END!
October 17, 2008

4:27 p.m.

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OldSailor writes:

Diff writes:

I sincerely wish Tom Cancredo would take a long walk off a short deep water pier!
With maybe about a 100#s of dead weight tied around his waist...

He continues to STINK up the state and make us look like a back-water bunch of idiots and bigots -
What a JERK - you have embarrassed this state enough,

Tom: Shut up and GO AWAY already!
****************************************************

Diff you are a ****ING IDIOT, I repeat a ****ING IDIOT
I am a Vietnam Vet and I love the USA which you apparently don't.
October 17, 2008

4:32 p.m.

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chickenlittle1234 writes:

OldSailor - What's being a Vietnam vet and loving the USA got to do with the fact that Tancredo is an embarrassment to the state? Even my family of hardcore Southern Republicans think Tancredo is nuts.
October 17, 2008

4:35 p.m.

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coarizona writes:

Why have immigration laws? Let everyone in and forget about it. Why have ANY laws enforced. It is working so well right now. The news reports show that daily. And I am not a race hater...I hate everyone EQUALLY.
October 17, 2008

4:38 p.m.

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Devil_Dog writes:

Diff

You are an idiot. You call me a bigot because I support the law and disagree with you. You do not support the law, you just whine and cry and stir up trouble. I do not care one bit what color a person is! I do care if they are here legally or not and I do care if they are harming MY country. Before you call someone a name maybe you should look a little deeper into your own disgusting soul. You are the one filled with hate. And your opinion isn't worth the toilet paper you used to whipe it from your poor excuse for a brain.
October 17, 2008

4:38 p.m.

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OldSailor writes:

All illegal aliens, no matter what country they are from or what race they are should be given a date to self deport by. This would allow them to liquidate their property and take the money and their family with them back to the country they came from. After that date when illegal immigrants are caught their property would be seized to help repay the cost to the American taxpayers and they would be deported with their families, including jackpot babies.

People like Diff should go with them where they would feel more at home.
October 17, 2008

4:51 p.m.

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COLibertarian writes:

Diff all you have proven is that you have the gall to sit behind a computer screen and get all puffed up and mean, while calling everyone names. NO you dont have to provide PROOF of anything. But it looks pretty funny from here to see your rants without a shred of dialogue and common decency. If you disagree, then disagree with some civility. Wishing someones Death? You gotta be kidding. Seriously dude you need to get some anger counceling.
AND No I dont approve of those wishing you ill will either!

You obviously have the passion, but how about some substance. You have railed on me before on different subject. Yet you can not provide substance there. YOU DONT LIKE TANCREDO'S PLAN? Fine Show US Yours.

And hey if you promise to stay calm and not so angry........ I would even offer up a coffee or beer and you could explain your plan face to face.........mmm just like people did in the good ole days of communication.
October 17, 2008

4:52 p.m.

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The_Punnisher writes:

" Even my family of hardcore Southern Republicans think Tancredo is nuts "

Do you think you have a good recommendation with that statement???

How about people using FACTS for a change.....

The ILLEGAL ALIEN is breaking the US CODE as soon as IT steps over the border, therefore making laws and rules will have no effect on the ILLEGALITY that IT has.

In earlier times we went to WAR over this kind of behavior.

( that was when the US hadn't been run by a bunch of money grubbing, craven politicians and businessmen )

So unless people treat this problem pretty soon, you may not have the US of A to worry about anymore.

Tom has it right. Maybe too many people are just too ignorant ( I'm not saying STUPID until after the election ) to know these facts.
October 17, 2008

5 p.m.

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rage_against_the_stupid writes:

At least Tom is sincere in working very hard to expose the left and their: open border policy, unlimited food stamps to non-citizens, two completely different standards in criminal justice, small business loans that go to immigrants (illilegal or not) first, etc....

Where as old single issue (un-proven embryonic stem cell research) Diana Degette is no where to be seen. She doesn't even have a primary, now that's leftwing democracy in action.
October 17, 2008

5:15 p.m.

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yaakovwatkins writes:

Chester and Diff seem to want special privileges for Hispanics. They don't mind when Africans, Europeans, and Asians have to follow the law but apparently Hispanics get a free pass.
October 17, 2008

5:22 p.m.

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Stan_Weekes writes:

It's interesting that no one is addressing the evidence.

The $$$ amount that DOLA administers is huge for Denver. This is not a 'feelings' or immigration issue. It involves State Law, with the enforcement mechanism in place and available. The real question is when will Governor Ritter enforce the law?

I'm very familiar with the facts of this issue and the Audit will 'prove' the case. Denver should prepare to greatly pare their budget, determine the layoffs, and hope Bankruptcy is avoided.
October 17, 2008

5:27 p.m.

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p_myers661 writes:

There are laws on how the city and state are to deal with illegal immigrants when they are discovered. I would state, without any proof, that the biggest problem is that ICE doesn't wish to have the problems of deportation and prosecution so they take the stance of NOT doing their job. We can make a difference now.

We can make a difference now by finding out which people running for state and federal office will continue to dodge the laws and which would enforce the laws as well as pass others that will reduce illegal employment in Colorado.

For those who consider the illegal immigrants to be victims, this is the sensible position. We can punish the real criminals who lure the illegals into our country. Make certain that employers will be severely punished up to and including their business licenses. This will make employing illegal immigrants too risky. It's worked in other states. We can do it here.

Tom Tancredo represented us in Congress and did sound the alarm. He knew it would anger a lot of powerful groups and make his career shorter than it might have been. He made the choice to be unpopular in his defense of the people of Colorado and the United States from the invasion of illegal aliens. Now is the time to make a difference. If the representatives, no matter what their party, won't support policies to deal with this problem, vote them out.
October 17, 2008

5:33 p.m.

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BaryGetz writes:

Lets look at actual facts here. This is a link to the US Dept of Labor statistics, which calculates wage fluctuations-http://data.bls.gov/PDQ/... What this link says is exactly the opposite of what you bigots advocate-wages have not gone down in 'illegal immigrant' industries: In Phoenix, food preparation workers and kitchen workers have enjoyed an average wage increase from $7.35 in August of 1997 to $12.47 in August of 2005 (http://data.bls.gov/PDQ/servlet/NCSOu... In the Los Angeles metroplex from 1998 to 2005, the average compensation for janitors and cleaners has increased from $7.49 to $10.87-In Dallas, all construction trade workers have experienced over 4 additional hourly dollars from 1998 to 2005 as the average rate went from $12.99 to $17.44 (http://data.bls.gov/PDQ/servlet/NCSOu.... In the Denver-Boulder-Greely MSA groundskeepers and gardeners have earned on average over $1 more per hour in the 7 years from 1998 to 2005 ($12.45-$13.72) (http://data.bls.gov/PDQ/servlet/NCSOu...). In San Diego, vehicle washers and equipment cleaners have been fortunate in jumping from an average hourly rate of $7.92 in 1997 to $15.02 in 2003. I have been a Project Manager for a construction firm here in Denver for the last 10 years and have never seen any of my white laborers start out making less or go through pay cuts. This assumption is entirely false
October 17, 2008

5:43 p.m.

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BaryGetz writes:

http://udallcenter.arizona.edu/immigr... this may suprise you
October 17, 2008

5:52 p.m.

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BaryGetz writes:

Why are we not worried about illegal immigration from Canada?Including the Iraqi refugees, Canada is increasing the Middle East resettlement target to 3,300 people this year, which is a 54 percent increase over 2007. This means that Citizenship and Immigration Canada will be allocating almost one third of its global resettlement places to Iraqi and other refugees displaced in the region by war” (http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/departme...). If this doesn’t get your attention, this may; “The United States confronts the same problem, but many of the illegal arrivals to Canada end up in the United States (U.S. immigration authorities conservatively estimate that between 3,000 and 5,000 Chinese enter the United States illegally each year, almost all of them from Canada). The intelligence dossiers also reveal that refugee claimants from Russia and Kazakhstan continue to pose problems at the Canadian border. But the largest growth in refugees to Canada is from Argentina, whose nationals have been exempted from having to possess U.S. visas since July, 1996. Conversely, Americans have been complaining about Canada's visa-exempt status for Mexicans, Costa Ricans and now South Koreans; about 100 Koreans were caught entering Washington state from British Columbia earlier this month” (http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.co...). I find it ironic that a country actively accepting refugees from a nation the US is at war with has come under virtually no scrutiny in the mainstream media.
October 17, 2008

5:54 p.m.

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BaryGetz writes:

Dont use illegal immigration as a front for racism. This is not an 'issue' it is certainly not a 'new issue' . People need to do their own research and stop beleiving everything they see on FOX news.
October 17, 2008

5:56 p.m.

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ColoradoBorn writes:

chickenlittle1234 I think you are just trolling. Tancredo at least got public aware of the issue.
Diff and beergut follow your own advice please.
October 17, 2008

5:57 p.m.

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BaryGetz writes:

Many of the anti-illegal immigrant maniacs are under the impression that illegal immigrants from Mexico enjoy a higher standard of living than a taxpaying American and this is simply not true. Many of these people work two or three jobs where they are paid under minimum wage, which may be the reason they can not get citizenship. If they were granted amnesty, the corrupt employers like Swift Meat Packing would have to pay these workers at least minimum wage and something tells me they don’t want to do that. Legislators try to pass bills that would overturn the law that children born on US soil are born citizens. Are these the taxpayers you all are looking for? If anything they would replace some of the resources their parents used up, so why deny children citizenship?
October 17, 2008

5:59 p.m.

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bronco writes:

I'm a Obama supporter, Lib on pretty much everything except for this invasion from down south. Close that border and kick out the illegals immediately. Unemployment, it was said today, may reach 9% in a year. AMERICAN JOBS FOR REAL AMERICANS ONLY. America of course meaning the United States of America!
October 17, 2008

5:59 p.m.

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OldSailor writes:

p_myers661 is correct and I agree entirely. People like Chester and Diff want to give the country away for some reason. If they don’t like the USA the way it is then they should go to some other country where they would be happy.
October 17, 2008

6:10 p.m.

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BaryGetz writes:

Yeah! Bronco! A Real Patriot! Whoooo!!! Smart One Too!!!!! Good Logic!!!!
October 17, 2008

6:13 p.m.

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BaryGetz writes:

Come with some evidence ColoradoBorn.
October 17, 2008

6:14 p.m.

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Uno writes:

Most Democrats are corrupt. Tancredo is a decent American who want's to do the right thing and constantly chastised by a few loudmouths. Most people are fed up with this illegal invasion, bringing lower standard of living, trash neighborhoods, increase crime and burden on the taxpayers, and in some cases killing our citizens. It's time to take a tough stand and draw the line, at the border.
October 17, 2008

6:26 p.m.

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BaryGetz writes:

Uno, you sound a little bitter. Get off the couch and use your citizen status to elevate yourself so you don't have to compete with people who can't speak english.
October 17, 2008

6:34 p.m.

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PlayFair writes:

"Evan Dreyer, a spokesman for Gov. Ritter, called Tancredo's allegations a "political stunt" to divert attention from the nation's economic crisis"

One cannot speak of the "nation's economic crisis" and not mention a major contributing factor to that economic crisis, which is illegal immigration. Too many, for too long, at too great a cost.

Please tell me why our military have spilled their blood; and why we risk our most precious resource, at all ends of the world, to defend our country, when (with no borders) we have no country?

Just not right.

Thank you, Tom Tancredo.
October 17, 2008

6:40 p.m.

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Stan_Weekes writes:

CRS 29-29-103
(2) (a) (I) A PEACE OFFICER WHO HAS PROBABLE CAUSE THAT AN ARRESTEE FOR A CRIMINAL OFFENSE IS NOT LEGALLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES SHALL REPORT SUCH ARRESTEE TO THE UNITED STATES IMMIGRATION AND CUSTOMS ENFORCEMENT OFFICE IF THE ARRESTEE IS NOT HELD AT A DETENTION FACILITY. IF THE ARRESTEE IS HELD AT A DETENTION FACILITY AND THE COUNTY SHERIFF REASONABLY BELIEVES THAT THE ARRESTEE IS NOT LEGALLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES, THE SHERIFF SHALL REPORT SUCH ARRESTEE TO THE FEDERAL IMMIGRATION AND CUSTOMS ENFORCEMENT OFFICE.

(3) A LOCAL GOVERNMENT THAT VIOLATES SUBSECTION (1) OF THIS SECTION OR PARAGRAPH (b) OF SUBSECTION (2) OF THIS SECTION SHALL NOT BE ELIGIBLE TO RECEIVE LOCAL GOVERNMENT FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE THROUGH GRANTS ADMINISTERED BY THE DEPARTMENT OF LOCAL AFFAIRS
http://www.leg.state.co.us/clics2006a...
October 17, 2008

6:42 p.m.

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COLibertarian writes:

Bary,

Nice information on the Canadian Border. Where in the article has Tancredo given a pass to those illegal Aliens coming from the north of our border....or in actuallity the east or west? You are using racism to bully people on here as that is your way it seems. You want to talk issues but in my calculation 4 times you have made attacks. If you want to talk issues but why cant you do it in a civil manner?

I see you have not brought up HC costs and other Local, State, and Federal $$$$$ spent on Illegal aliens that should be used for our working citizens, dont you think?

What of Illegal Companies your peers hire and those companies owned by illegal aliens are then allowed to undercut legal companies because the illegal companies do not pay local, state or federal taxes from a company standpoint and from an employee perspective? This cost savings are driving legit business's under and you know it.

You state "I have been a Project Manager for a construction firm here in Denver for the last 10 years and have never seen any of my white laborers start out making less or go through pay cuts. This assumption is entirely false" Since from your response, it sounds like you confirm that you hire illegals. Please let us know where we can send the local authorities so that they can stand behind the laws written and discussed in this article........
October 17, 2008

6:50 p.m.

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COLibertarian writes:

Bary you claim that wages are not lower. You use simple math and do not attribute cost of living increases and ALL of the components that are associated.

Also you do not mention the fact that in your posts in one states that the wages are fine from your research and that things are good there....in following posts you state they have to have 3 jobs just to survive........... What is it?

WHat part of town do you live? What is your daily life and your family daily life consist of when it comes to illegals? How many live next to you? Or is it that you just work with them during the day and make money on their labor.......OHHH no....cant be any bias there....

I currently have 2 illegal alien households on my block. Used to be 3 but they quit paying mortgage as they were leaving back to Mexico.....their choice....

1st neighbor. Painter owns his own company. Doesnt have 2-3 jobs. Does not pay taxes. His words not mine. He hired illegals and charges them rent to his 2bd 1bth house. 8 people total. He makes bank on the rent. He does not claim taxes on this. Underbids American companies.......laughs at 'gringos' for this.......... He and rentors have 4 vehicles all ranging in the 20-40K range..... Paid for in cash.......
October 17, 2008

6:57 p.m.

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COLibertarian writes:

2nd neighbor is moving out now. Moving to bigger house. He owns illegal company in landscaping. Hires illegals. Has multiple new vehicles........Asks me why I pay taxes. It is no problem not to..................
Former neighbor who moved back to mexico to run family business.....owns a block of apts........... He had his own Plumbing business with 3 other plumbers. All illegal from different countries. 2 Mexican - 2 Eastern Bloc countries.
They hired other illegals and were able to underbid most competitors 25+ percent. He showed me the books. Even with this % he showed me the increased profits when not paying taxes.

YES there may be those out there that work multiple jobs to make ends meet. HEY there are American citizens that do that every day.

You tell 1 side of a story. There are many sides and angles of a story. As a PM you should know that.....as I am a PM also.......... I work in different industry and do not get the luxury of bringing in low cost labor......... Mine is much more restricted than yours.
October 17, 2008

7:06 p.m.

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COLibertarian writes:

Bary I also have many many friends in the construction business. They would disagree with you greatly.

In the End Bary. We need a comprehensive Immigration plan that allows for job retention and creation. Those are economical factors that depend on all of us following the laws stated. A plan that allows for tactical and strategic growth.

A PLAN Bary. You can rightly criticize that I have not thrown one out here. MY BAD. It should be people like us (PMs that live on planning) to demand a plan. HeII i would take a non working plan right now.....at least we would be moving in a direction.

Obviously you and I disagree, based upon our backgrounds, industries, and neighborhoods in which we live. I hope you did not think I was attacking. Was not my intention and if you feel that the case, I will apologize up front. Hey maybe we could give them a working plan.......LOL... Enjoy your evening Bary
October 17, 2008

7:07 p.m.

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Heidi writes:

COLib,

Have you reported your neighbors to ICE? Or do you feel it would not do any good?
October 17, 2008

7:14 p.m.

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COLibertarian writes:

Heidi, good evening my friend. The plumber already left back to Mexico. Great Great guy. Neighbor and I were working to get him to have proper legal paperwork to be here........ He was not too keen on that idea as it broke into his profits... He is happy and working hard back at his family's business
Painters were turned into ICE by a neighbor. They laughed at the business tax idea and had no intentions of becoming legal. Why they said...... Cant argue their point from their money perspective. But made neighbor mad that they blatantly flaunt the laws.... Also Makes it hard to build up a block or street when they park their cars on the lawns......and neighbor is trying to sell house.........
Landscaper is working on proper work paperwork. Needs it for his wife as she is working on a Healthcare career. Hope they get it done. They are working towards the legal way, so NO I have not called ICE. They should be rewarded for working to a legal solution.
October 17, 2008

7:15 p.m.

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PlayFair writes:

Bary,

Perhaps you should change your hammer from "BaryGetz" to "Barydoesn'tGetz", as it appears your understanding of this issue is incorrect.

I do not force others to contribute to the charities of my choice, yet I am forced to contribute to yours and,to make matters worse, your charity is illegal.

Your childish, immature remarks do nothing to further your position but, rather, serve only to alienate (pardon the pun) those who are genuinely seeking a valid argument based on facts, i.e., math.
October 17, 2008

7:16 p.m.

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COLibertarian writes:

Heidi also the landscaper has created a legit business and paying proper taxes. They wish to stay and make a life of it. I support people like this. Others......hmmm Not So Much
October 17, 2008

7:22 p.m.

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Heidi writes:

I'm with you, COLib. Good for them. I welcome the positive contributors to our society. It's the attitude of the Painters that I don't like.
Have a great weekend!
October 17, 2008

7:27 p.m.

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Francesca writes:

chester says, "Frankly, this Coloradan is getting tired of the racism and hatred that permeates so much of the anti-brown people."

You know chester, there is some of that and believe me it's a two way street where ALL races are concerned. People that make comments like yours will continue to perpetuate that ignorance. Frankly, this Coloradan is getting tired of people who race bait to push their own racist agendas while crying foul at the same time. Anti-any-color has absolutely NOTHING do with expecting people to follow this country's laws (illegals and American companies that hire them) and make a solid attempt to assimilate into the community. Duh.
October 17, 2008

7:30 p.m.

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COLibertarian writes:

Yes Heidi agree. Just talked to landscaper this week. He was working on winterizing yards. He was much happier and was very proud that he was creating a legit business. He did not see the light until his wife wanted to do other work in HC. He thanked neighbor and I about pushing him to do right thing.
October 17, 2008

7:36 p.m.

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The_Punnisher writes:

Notice that I didn't mention the NATIONALITY of the ILLEGAL ALIEN. ( The PROPER, LEGAL term in THE US CODE )

Time to get the nationality issue out of the smokescreen used by the closet racists of ALL NATIONALITIES...

Because if you want to ASSUME the race, you also add the race card....YOU, not the other people on this forum.

An INVASION is an INVASION & I don't care what race they belong to.

A BORDER is a BORDER, I don't care if it is North, South, East or West...( and we have ILLEGAL ALIENS coming in from all directions, overstaying your visa is just ONE example of an ILLEGAL who is stealing a job ) and it has been long past time to enforce the laws we made over 20 YEARS ago with the FIRST AMNESTY.

These are FACTS; Dispute them if you will....
October 17, 2008

7:42 p.m.

Suggest removal

Heidi writes:

Hey, I need some yard work done, but I am going to do it myself.

I think that doing the right thing brings out the best in us and makes us want to be even better people. I hope your landscaper friend spreads the word!
October 17, 2008

7:45 p.m.

Suggest removal

mmannino writes:

chester and other illegal alien apologists,

Your racist comments are backwards. Illegal Hispanic aliens have been given the red carpet because they are a protected group. We have a good number of illegals from other places. If they are caught in an immigration violation, they are given the boot. Even legal immigrants are given the boot if they get snagged in some criminal incident.

The Hispanic illegals have many vociferous activist groups who encourage them to engage in suspect activities. The Hispanic illegals are well aware of free services. They are not shy to obtain these services even if they are not entitled to them. Here is a typical comment by a Hispanic illegal alien: "In Mexico, we must pay for health care. Here (in the US) it is free." If you are not infuriated by that kind of attitude, you are part of the problem.

The maddening part about illegal immigration is the role of these activist groups and largely Democrat enablers. Without the green light to exploit the situation here, illegal aliens would focus on staying out of trouble and not feel entitled to free services. Most illegals are hard working, decent people. Their offspring however often end in gangs with much criminal activity.

There is no right to immigrate. The host country controls immigration. We simply cannot except the entire world's poor. Illegal immigration also hurts the native country because many hard working individuals leave.
October 17, 2008

7:50 p.m.

Suggest removal

The_Punnisher writes:

COLibertarian, people like you are the example of why we have the problem in the first place. These people jumped ahead of the line that other people are in to LEGITIMATELY get US Citizenship...

Until YOU start paying ALL THEIR BILLS and provide ALL THE PUBLIC SERVICES THEY USE, you are part of the problem and not part of the solution; it looks like your handle doesn't fit because you allow your beliefs to hit MY face.

Time to examine what you REALLY believe, because it sure isn't LIBERTARIANISM....

If you believe what you say, then you won't mind if I grab some of YOUR property and declare it mine, because you think that possession is 9/10ths of the law...and if I got it, you can't have it...

That is why we ( hopefully ) are still a nation of LAWS not MEN...
October 17, 2008

7:54 p.m.

Suggest removal

Kukulcan writes:

If Americans are as livid about "illegal aliens" as many on this forum would us believe, why didn't Tom Tancredo win the REPUBLICAN nomination for US President?

Why did REPUBLICAN voters reject immigration demagogues like Tom Tancredo, Duncan Hunter, Fred Thompson, Jim Gilmore, Ron Paul, Mitt Romney?

Why did John McCain, well known for promoting AMNESTY, win the GOP primaries?

Any clue?

DUH...
October 17, 2008

7:57 p.m.

Suggest removal

Kukulcan writes:

@ The_Punnisher

Dude, give me a break!

Europeans (whites) came here ILLEGALY themselves!

WHO ARE YOU KIDDING?

Whites came here ILLEGALLY!

That's why the RED people are now on reservation!
October 17, 2008

7:59 p.m.

Suggest removal

BaryGetz writes:

COLib,

The stats from the BLS are gathered using data from tax returns. Tax returns (that you will be the first to point out) that undocumented workers do not file. They are not included in the data. So only tax paying citizens have shown wage increases, not decrease in blue collar industries. Inflation is irrelevant in your argument that illegals push down wages. If they did then we would see a decrease in wages, not an increase. The only possible argument you could make is that wages don't go up as high you would like to see, but that is pure speculation.

I was a partner in a small hardwood flooring business for 4 years. We installed wood in scrape-offs in Wash park area and also near Glendale. All of our employees were white, as they had all gone to school together in Littleton. We were HOT for quite a while and made a damn good chunk of change. My point is that we would often sub-out small jobs to guys who claimed that "them f****** mexicans out bid us, they work for nothing, we can't compete" My response was usually "huh, we're doing better than ever, maybe your craftsmanship is fouled up" These guys owned small hardwood businesses just like I did but when their clients realized they weren't worth a hoot they decided to pass on a reference or another job or whatever, thats how they ended up getting our light work. There is only so low you can go w/o sacrificing quality. Then when they fouled up the little jobs we gave them, we realized why they were pissed at the immigrants. In one case they took about 3 times as long as usual to lay 4 inch in a 1400sq ft house. 4 inch goes quick.

Bottom line-if people feel like they are being squashed and priced out, it might be time to switch up the game plan. Use that citizen status to elevate yourself where you don't need to compete with someone who can't speak the language. Also, look at the history of this debate, when the economy goes up, nobody cares. When we buy into all this fear mongering non-sense that I’m sure 80% of the posters on here buy into we get scared and start pointing fingers. Check out this article on illegal taxpayers (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/16/nyr...
Nobody talks about this stuff, cause its not status quo right now.
October 17, 2008

8:07 p.m.

Suggest removal

Kukulcan writes:

Figures from the U.S. Census Bureau paint a clear picture: By as early as 2023, more than half of all children will be members of what are now minority groups, an evolution fueled significantly by a baby boom among recent immigrants. By 2050, they will make up more than 60 percent of all American children

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27106772/

That's what this is REALLY about!

Hatred for "illegal aliens"is just a proxy for those livid about changing demographics.

Why don't you say that you're upset that whites are declining as a % of the overall US population?

However, illegal immigration has a long history in this land. After all, Europeans (whites) came here ILLEGALLY themselves!

That's why the RED people are now on reservations!
October 17, 2008

8:07 p.m.

Suggest removal

BaryGetz writes:

COLib and other mis-informed and hysterical folks
I grew up in Commerce City- 77th and Brighton Blvd. I lived most my life growing up around immigrant families and the stories you tell do not sound plausible. I would be willing to bet that people like you and mmannino are extremely insulated from illegal immigrants. Hey I guess if we cut them off, the folks in your neighborhood won't be stepping over the dead babies lying in the gutters, right?
October 17, 2008

8:11 p.m.

Suggest removal

milomonkey writes:

Tancredo is right. But Ritter won't do anything about it. He helped establish Denver as a sanctuary city when he was D.A. When you've got a mayor who hires illegals, one of whom is a cop killer, you've got an administration that has no respect for the law nor its citizens.

The problem is that Ritter was soft on crime when he was D.A. - he let mass murderers and serial killers off easy. He was then voted into the Governor's Office. Obviously, the people of Colorado are not concerned about crime be it murder or illegal immigration.
October 17, 2008

8:13 p.m.

Suggest removal

Kukulcan writes:

Francine J. Lipman
Professor of Law
Courses Taught: Federal Income Taxation and Corporate Tax
http://www.chapman.edu/law/faculty/li...

"Americans believe that undocumented immigrants are exploiting the United States' economy. The widespread belief is that illegal aliens cost more in government services than they contribute to the economy. This belief is undeniably false. [E]very empirical study of illegals' economic impact demonstrates the opposite . . .: undocumenteds actually contribute more to public coffers in taxes than they cost in social services. Moreover, undocumented immigrants contribute to the U.S. economy through their investments and consumption of goods and services; filling of millions of essential worker positions resulting in subsidiary job creation, increased productivity and lower costs of goods and services; and unrequited contributions to Social Security, Medicare and unemployment insurance programs. Eighty-five percent of eminent economists surveyed have concluded that undocumented immigrants have had a positive (seventy-four percent) or neutral (eleven percent) impact on the U.S. economy"

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cf...

More immigrants = Less Crime?

http://www.wjh.harvard.edu/soc/facult...

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/idea...

http://www.wjh.harvard.edu/soc/facult...

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/st...

http://www.wjh.harvard.edu/soc/facult...

Surge in U.S. Hispanic Population Driven by Births, Not Immigration

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB12095...

A Sleeping Giant Awakens: The Power of the Latino Vote

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=644HeI...
October 17, 2008

8:15 p.m.

Suggest removal

Dynamicdave writes:

Heidi, tell them like it is. Hey, I had an illegal alien living right next door to me, here in Vegas (didn't know he was illegal). He sent his son over the wall to break into my shed. I incapacitated him and his father came over the wall and attacked me. I knocked him out. My "gal-pal was calling 911 when his other son said he will kill me. He ran into the house. My gal pal grabbed my 9mm, handed it to me and it was a standoff. The police came, arrested all 3 of them. The father was illegal, as was the son with the gun. The gun was stolen. The younger son is in juvenile detention and the father and son are in Indian Springs Prison., When they get done with their time, they are deported. They no longer live next door, needless to say. The landlord is now being scrutinized by the county, as he rents without properly screening the families (we've had 4 families in 2 years. 2 of them skipped rent and well, you know of the 4th). THIS is what having illegals in this country can bring. People like Chester can rant and try to make it racism. To me, illegal is illegal, regardless of the race. I have no love for them. Come here legally and with good intentions and you are welcome, in my books. Anything less, you're a waste to society.
October 17, 2008

8:19 p.m.

Suggest removal

Kukulcan writes:

Why are SANCTUARY CITIES like Denver, San Francisco, Los Angeles and New York seeing such dramatic declines in violent crime, from 2006 to 2007, according to the latest FBI crime statistics?

LOS ANGELES
2006 30,526
2007 27,801

SAN FRANCISCO
2006 6,533
2007 6,412

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/2007prelim/tab...

DENVER
2006 4,324
2007 3,550

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/2007prelim/tab...

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/2007prelim/tab...

New York
2006 52,086
2007 50,453

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/2007prelim/tab...
October 17, 2008

8:22 p.m.

Suggest removal

milomonkey writes:

Illegal is Illegal.

Francine Lipman is just another liberal loonie who twists the Constitution to suit her Marxist view of life.
October 17, 2008

8:26 p.m.

Suggest removal

BaryGetz writes:

Please back up your claims with hard evidence, as I have done. When (playfair) you say things like "One cannot speak of the "nation's economic crisis" and not mention a major contributing factor to that economic crisis, which is illegal immigration" I, nor anyone worth speaking to takes that unsupported generalization seriously. I know you intuitively think illegals have drained our support system, as I once did, but I implore you to do some fact finding outside of FOX news. You will learn that this supposed 'economic drain caused by illegals' is very, very contested. One report by the U of Arizona indicated a NET CONTRIBUTION (2004) OF $900 MILLION DUE to illegal immigration in the form of sales tax and other taxes levied. Here is the link to that-
http://udallcenter.arizona.edu/immigr...
http://udallcenter.arizona.edu/immigr...
October 17, 2008

8:27 p.m.

Suggest removal

MileHighPatriot writes:

illegal immigrants bad, shredded beef tacos good.
October 17, 2008

8:29 p.m.

Suggest removal

Heidi writes:

Hey Dave! Your "gal pal" wanted you to get in a gun fight? How funny! I notice you didn't mention what race your neighbors are. You are probably just a closet racist as I have heard others being accused of!

What I really want to know...what do you have in your shed?
October 17, 2008

8:29 p.m.

Suggest removal

Kukulcan writes:

@ milomonkey;

Don't worry, US President Obama (or McCain) will sign comprehensive immigration reform (AMNESTY) by summer!

"While an illegal alien is subject to deportation, that person's ongoing presence in the United States in and of itself is not a crime, unless that person had been previously deported and regained illegal entry into this country."

http://www.kscourts.org/Cases-and-Opi...

Former US Attorney for the southern district of New York, Rudy Giuliani;

"Glenn, being an illegal immigrant, the 400,000 were not prosecuted for crimes by the federal government, nor could they be. I was U.S. attorney in the southern district of New York. So believe me, I know this. In fact, when you throw an immigrant out of the country, it’s not a criminal proceeding. It’s a civil proceeding."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDo-ZV...

U.S. Attorney Christopher Christie Serving the District of New Jersey;

"Being in this country without proper documentation is not a crime," Christie told more than 60 residents and town officials. "The whole phrase of 'illegal immigrant' connotes that the person, by just being here, is committing a crime."

Being undocumented may be a civil wrong, but it's not a criminal act, Christie said.

"Don't let people make you believe that that's a crime that the U.S. Attorney's Office should be doing something about," he added of entering the country illegally. "It is not."

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2008...

Arizona Gov Napolitano veto reflects illegal immigration not a federal crime

http://whatiknow.freedomblogging.com/...
October 17, 2008

8:32 p.m.

Suggest removal

Kukulcan writes:

"13 Americans are killed each day by illegals, and 12 are murdered"

The figure appears to have originated with U.S. Rep. Steve King (R-IA), who in May 2006 claimed in at least two speeches and a press release that illegal immigrants murder 12 Americans each day and kill 13 each day as a result of drunken driving accidents, for a total of 25 deaths per day attributable to illegal immigrants.

http://www.house.gov/apps/list/hearin...

Rep. Steve King (R-IA) misleadingly "extrapolated" figures from an April 2005 Government Accountability Office (GAO) study to formulate the questionable statistic regarding the number of deaths caused by illegal immigrants, the GAO report itself makes no such claim. The study shows that "noncitizens convicted of crimes while in this country legally or illegally" comprise approximately 27 percent of the United States federal prison population.

http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d05337r.pdf

http://blogs.chron.com/bluebayou/2006...

http://colorado.mediamatters.org/item...
October 17, 2008

8:33 p.m.

Suggest removal

BaryGetz writes:

Actually Dynamic Dave, the problem in that story of yours was the landlord, who was too lazy or cheap to screen his tennants. That could have just as easily been some white trash citizen that did all that to your shed. I guess you haven't used your legal status card though right?
October 17, 2008

8:36 p.m.

Suggest removal

FCZ writes:

"Ritter won't do anything about it. He helped establish Denver as a sanctuary city when he was D.A.

When you've got a mayor who hires illegals, one of whom is a cop killer, you've got an administration that has no respect for the law nor its citizens."
October 17, 2008

8:37 p.m.

Suggest removal

conservative111 writes:

TANCREDO FOR COLORADO GOVERNOR IN 2010!!! Tancredo can take it to Ritter and finally bring Ritter's record on illegals into the spotlight.
October 17, 2008

8:38 p.m.

Suggest removal

The_Punnisher writes:

Hey, I'm part AMERIND, so I could just tell all you ____ to just get off MY property if you want to play the race card...

And the MEXICAN ( SPANISH, like the CONQUISTADOR ) doesn't have a stellar record in how they treated the INDIGENOUS TRIBES down south either. Yo digo CONQUISTADOR, 'mano???

See what happens when YOU play the race card???

I'm keeping this discussion centered on the REALITY of the situation, not playing on emotions ( if you still want to play the RACE card, Latinos are the hot blooded ones who substitute EMOTION for REALITY )...

So back to LAWBREAKERS. Time to fish or cut bait. Or watch this invasion proceed without a shot fired...

Because that is a FACT, ladies and gents.

And you can't argue with the facts ( unless you are PSYCHOTIC )..
October 17, 2008

8:39 p.m.

Suggest removal

Kukulcan writes:

THE CLAIM: A U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) program aimed at catching child predators arrested more than 6,000 “illegal aliens” in its first two years. The claim also asserts that 240,000 undocumented immigrants are sex offenders.

THE TRUTH: While it’s true that Operation Predator made 6,000-plus arrests in its first two years, those arrested consisted of both documented and undocumented immigrants, as well as American citizens, according to ICE. About 85% of those arrested were foreign nationals (many of them documented), but this was no surprise, given that the operation specifically targeted foreign-born predators whose status made them deportable, along with U.S. citizens who engage in child sex tourism abroad. With regard to the total figure of undocumented sex offenders, the legion cites a self-published article from independent criminal profiler Deborah Schurman-Kauflin stating that 240,000 undocumented immigrants are sex offenders. Schurman-Kauflin based that figure on the assumption — for which she provided no specific source — that sex offenders account for 2% of all undocumented immigrants.

Based on her article, Schurman-Kauflin apparently performed the following calculation:

12,000,000
(Estimated illegal immigrant population in the U.S.)

x

0.02
(Estimated proportion of apprehended illegal immigrants who were apprehended for sex offenses)

= 240,000

(Illegal immigrant sex offenders in the U.S.)

The most recent GAO data on illegal immigrants incarcerated at the federal, state, and local levels puts the total at approximately 270,000. If 2 percent of this population consists of sex offenders, then the total number of sex offenders would be 5,400.

http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d05337r.pdf

Neither the "A Line in the Sand" report nor its source document gives any indication how the apparently inflated number of illegal immigrant sex offenders corresponds with the "105 sexual predators" figure beyond making the assertion that the unsubstantiated data "translates to 93 sex offenders and 12 serial sexual offenders coming across U.S. borders illegally per day."

http://www.ice.gov/pi/news/insideice/...

http://colorado.mediamatters.org/item...

http://www.drdsk.com/articles.html#Il...

http://www.drdsk.com/articles.html
October 17, 2008

8:39 p.m.

Suggest removal

BaryGetz writes:

Yeah thats gonna happen
October 17, 2008

8:41 p.m.

Suggest removal

Heidi writes:

Dave,

I guess your landlord forced his tenants to be criminals. Those poor neighbors didn't know what they were doing. Don't blame them. Maybe you should bake them some cookies.
October 17, 2008

8:43 p.m.

Suggest removal

Dynamicdave writes:

Heidi, I keep my Harley in my shed (Tough Shed). No, I have no racism in me. My ex was from East LA. Breaking and entering is breaking and entering. I told my gal pal to get the gun when his son ran into the house with threats of killing me. So please keep your conjectures to yourself. I protect my property and my family/friends. I worked hard, legally, for mine and I'll be damned if an illegal will take that from me. As to their race, they were Hispanic. It didn't particularly matter what their race was. Stealing is stealing. Breaking the law, is breaking the law. As a legal American, I have the right to protect home and life. I never even knew they were illegal, till the incident.
October 17, 2008

8:44 p.m.

Suggest removal

BaryGetz writes:

Hey Punisher, what are you like 1/32nd amerindian? don't get all rightous. The people who you back up are the same ones who pushed for the Indian Removal act-same people, different era, that is IF you are remotely amerindian. Also you sound pretty emotional, just to let you know.
October 17, 2008

8:46 p.m.

Suggest removal

The_Punnisher writes:

Careful about talking about the SFBA.

I've been there and your facts are LIES. SF is finding out how much a sanctuary policy is costing them.....

Check the Gate to find out just how much...
October 17, 2008

8:47 p.m.

Suggest removal

Heidi writes:

Dave,

Sorry if you took me the wrong way. I was just joking. I thought you would know that!! Sorry!!

And you do have a right to protect your property.
October 17, 2008

8:48 p.m.

Suggest removal

BaryGetz writes:

Punisher=man of mystery
October 17, 2008

8:50 p.m.

Suggest removal

Heidi writes:

Dave,
I'm also glad that it all turned out okay for you. I should bake you some cookies.
October 17, 2008

8:54 p.m.

Suggest removal

Dynamicdave writes:

Heidi, what does the landlord have to do with anything? He rented a house to illegals. These "so called neighbors" tried to steal from me. I prevented it. Son threatened to kill me on my property. I protected myself and those around me. You, I suppose would have begged him not to shoot you? That is what will will see to it that you end up a victim. Get a clue to real life, hon. You are living in a fantasy word. The important thing here was that NOBODY was killed. Without my gun, I could have been the victim. The landlord has guidelines as far as renting his property that he is to adhere to by county guidelines. He didn't. But you don't seem to want to understand that part of it? I want to know who lives in my home if I rented out my house.
October 17, 2008

8:55 p.m.

Suggest removal

mmannino writes:

Kukulcan,

There are plenty of studies indicating that the cost of illegal immigration far outweighs the benefits. Illegal aliens pay little in taxes even if they file. As low wage earners, they can claim a host of tax credits, effectively welfare. There are plenty of taxpayer handouts for illegals including education, health care, bilingual education, and housing. Illegal aliens are very knowlegable about the modern welfare state. If they need any information, there is an army of enablers to inform them.

The only thing constraining illegal immigration costs is their illegal status. The Democratic plan to grant amnesty and open borders will be disasterous. The Heritage Foundation has documented the results of this disasterous policy. The Democratic policy will be the end of our southern border. We will essentially become a magnet for any poor person who can make it to our southern border.
October 17, 2008

8:55 p.m.

Suggest removal

BaryGetz writes:

It would be interesting to find out who drains the economy more when it's between huge corporations that outsource everything, or illegal immigrants. I would venture to guess it's the former.
October 17, 2008

8:56 p.m.

Suggest removal

The_Punnisher writes:

BaryGetz tried to push buttons; It aint workin.

I have a LOT more than that 1/32nd. I just don't throw it around like some people...

Now you stick words in my mouth....someone is a FORK TONGUED DEVIL and it aint me...>8->...

I'm keeping it clean how about you? Personal attacks are a sign that you lose this round of the debate....
October 17, 2008

8:57 p.m.

Suggest removal

BaryGetz writes:

Oh yeah mmannino-the Heritage Foundation is a completely neutral and credible source. LOL.
October 17, 2008

8:57 p.m.

Suggest removal

Dynamicdave writes:

Heidi, sure, now tell me you're joking after my last post... Sheesh. Sorry, kiss and make up?
October 17, 2008

9 p.m.

Suggest removal

Heidi writes:

Dave,

My landlord comment was in response to this:

"BaryGetz writes:

Actually Dynamic Dave, the problem in that story of yours was the landlord, who was too lazy or cheap to screen his tennants. That could have just as easily been some white trash citizen that did all that to your shed. I guess you haven't used your legal status card though right?"

So I was sticking up for you with my stupid sense of humor.
October 17, 2008

9 p.m.

Suggest removal

Wagthedog1001 writes:

Tancredo needs to spend some serious time in Mexico. What a bigot. Montezuma awaits, Tom.
October 17, 2008

9:01 p.m.

Suggest removal

BaryGetz writes:

Punisher,
You haven't said anything that warrants an intelligent debate. All you have done is throw around your heritage. Sorry but you really haven't added a drop of evidence to this debate.
October 17, 2008

9:08 p.m.

Suggest removal

BaryGetz writes:

Heidi,

By completely ignoring the screening process, Dave's landlord may have enabled this whole mess with the Harley. He did not force them to commit crimes but if he was a good landlord (like i'm sure you would be) he wouldn't have let these guys move in. How is this an immigration problem? BTW, If you will notice my post, I made no reference to the race of the immigrants.
October 17, 2008

9:09 p.m.

Suggest removal

Dynamicdave writes:

Heidi, love you. As far as his comment, I don't have to use any legal status card. Born an American citizen. Fought for my country. Serve the community in a positive way. I have nothing that I have to prove.
October 17, 2008

9:11 p.m.

Suggest removal

BaryGetz writes:

http://udallcenter.arizona.edu/immigr...
October 17, 2008

9:11 p.m.

Suggest removal

The_Punnisher writes:

BarGetz, if you want to TROLL, we maintain a web site specifically for that purpose:

www.trollvalhalla.com

We love newbie trolls. Them's good eatin'...>8->...

I extend the invitation to ALL people. The site may just surprise a few....

Tell them the HORSE sent you....

'later, mano....
October 17, 2008

9:17 p.m.

Suggest removal

Heidi writes:

Bary,

I do agree that the landlord is partly to blame, but it is definitely not all his fault that Dave had some trouble with them, which could have been very serious. The landord certainly enabled it to happen. I have been a landlord and it is not worth the trouble.
I didn't accuse you of saying anything about their race. How is it not related to the immigration problem? Of course, there is a lot of "white trash" as you stated, but that has nothing to do with Dave's incident.
This is all getting too confusing because I started off with Dave trying to make a joke!
October 17, 2008

9:20 p.m.

Suggest removal

Heidi writes:

No harm done, Dave. I'm glad. I was happy and surprised to see you here tonight! I am tired tonight from all of the traveling I have been doing so thought I would take it easy. This seems stressful, though.
October 17, 2008

9:21 p.m.

Suggest removal

Dynamicdave writes:

BaryGetz, my point was, the county is scrutinizing him. He (landlord) asked for no ID. His eldest son was not on the lease. He rented merely because a "friend" told him the family was looking for a place to live. He never bothered to ask them about POE or call to verify anything on these people. The father has lived in the US for about 12 years. The landlord needs to ask himself why he had 2 other families skip out on rent? Because he wasn't following procedure and knowing who he was renting to. The new tenants seem to be decent enough. Not loud, good neighbors. They are even working on the front walkway, putting in a brick path. I've lived in my home, bought and paid for, for 11 years, now. I just want to know who lives next door to me and with the 5th family moving in, in a 2 year period, it gets me a little "uneasy".
October 17, 2008

9:27 p.m.

Suggest removal

Dynamicdave writes:

Heidi, yeah, I had a 1 celeb to teach this morning (martial arts)and the rest of the day has been mine. I need to go get cleaned up. Me and my gal-pal (yes, the same one) are going out to the Voodoo Lounge at the Rio. Then to a local tavern for a little Karaoke. You rest easy, hon. Talk to you again, when I can get back on line. I'm out of here.
October 17, 2008

9:27 p.m.

Suggest removal

PlayFair writes:

Bary, Thank you for the fact-finding tip. Tip of the day for you, don't play with matches.

Many thanks for your service to the community, growing up in Commerce City (crowd politely claps while wearing white gloves).

You seem to be a pretty smart person. You have all your footnotes, references, hi-tech gizmos and resources, ready to launch...ready to decimate...quick to fire. However, advising the average U.S. citizen to find and cite facts regarding illegal immigration, its current impact upon this country and its enconomy, is like recommending fact finding on East Colfax regarding prostitution. Look around. What a slap in the face to those who immigrate to this country legally, what a slap in the face to those who have died for the security of this country. While you are busy gathering your endless facts, enough illegals are crossing the U.S./Mexican border each week, to fill Invesco Field; countless OTM's that dispurse throughout this nation posing a significant threat. The justice/jail systems; education; health care; employment, etc. You go ahead and keep counting your beans. Math doesn't lie. But your stats are pretty facted up.
October 17, 2008

9:27 p.m.

Suggest removal

BaryGetz writes:

Hey Dave,

I agree with your point man. I just don't know that the illegal immigration forum is the place to bring it up. You see where I'm coming from?
October 17, 2008

9:32 p.m.

Suggest removal

COLibertarian writes:

Bary,

Insulated from Illegals? Nice Assumption dude. Nice.... Attack Attack and say not plausable? I asked you where you live.....not grew up. Answer the questions.....but since you volunteered where you grew up.....fine.....that was then.....this is Now.....Big difference..... I live 2 blocks off of Colfax in a very diverse neighborhood. I live with what is going on every dam day.

I am the one asking for dialogue......Hell even asked about collaboration.....and you return it with hatred and name calling. Grow up dude.

You also state "Bottom line-if people feel like they are being squashed and priced out, it might be time to switch up the game plan. Use that citizen status to elevate yourself where you don't need to compete with someone who can't speak the language. Also, look at the history of this debate, when the economy goes up, nobody cares. When we buy into all this fear mongering non-sense that I’m sure 80% of the posters on here buy into we get scared and start pointing fingers. Check out this article on illegal taxpayers (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/16/nyr...
Nobody talks about this stuff, cause its not status quo right now."

They have businesses that YOU and YOUR Peers HIRE ILLEGALLY..What YOU are doing is ILLEGAL. They dont pay payroll or any other local state federal taxes on their business......HEY I would take that. How would you not be able to underprice people......BECAUSE of that Americans should do something different? OH yea.....illegals create illegal businesses that dont pay taxes.......surrender and do something else? Nice thought Bary. You are making no sense
October 17, 2008

9:40 p.m.

Suggest removal

StarsNStripes writes:

Congressman Tom Tancredo is doing what he should do about the immigration problem. There has to be something done now. My son's public school in the north metro area is catering to them, and there is probably 1/4 of his school that doesn't speak english. I for one am sick of it, and I can bet money that everyone on this blog knows what language they speak. This is America and I am all for immigration if it is legal.
October 17, 2008

9:40 p.m.

Suggest removal

Mike846 writes:

"Tax" Ritter, through his various mouthpieces, lies all the time about how he's 100% in favor of the laws. You can listen to what he says, but WATCH what he's done, since his days as DA and before. As many here have noted, his own actions put his lies on display. Or he pulls an end run, like vetoing a bill last year that would have made it easier for illegals to get driver's licenses and register cars, then implimenting the same procedures via an administrative order to DMV. We all need to make sure he's a one-term governor. As far as I'm concerned, a yellow dog running down the street with a sign around his neck that says "Republican" would get my vote. We need to vote OUT of office any of these politicians who pander to illegal aliens at the expense of AMERICAN CITIZENS. Mike
October 17, 2008

9:40 p.m.

Suggest removal

Dynamicdave writes:

BaryGetz, I have to respond to that before I go out for the night. It has EVERYTHING to deal with the illegal immigration forum. EVERYTHING! They were ILLEGALS! Where else would I post it? In the sports section? My point is that because of illegal immigration, you never know who your neighbor is. True, even legal citizens can be trouble, but in this case they were illegal. This is an illegal immigration forum. I was showing by way of "point of fact" what can happen when you allow illegals into the country.
October 17, 2008

9:44 p.m.

Suggest removal

Heidi writes:

Nice response at 9:40, Dave. And that wasn't meant to be sarcastic. ;)

Have a good time tonight!
October 17, 2008

9:47 p.m.

Suggest removal

PlayFair writes:

Thank you, D.Dave! I believe one does not need facts to define "Illegal"...And, as the first syllable of that word suggests, I, too, am sickened by the crimes being perpetrated against this country all in the name of profit and power because the higher-ups do not have the parts necessary to confront this issue.

Have an enjoyable, peaceful evening. Over and out.
October 17, 2008

9:47 p.m.

Suggest removal

BaryGetz writes:

Playfair,
high tech gizmos? Here is the real tip of the day-find out exactly what you are talking about, and be able to back it up with evidence before you jump into a conversation. Don't rely on heresay, generalizations, or stereotypes. The biggest difference between my point and yours is that there is no East Colfax Policy Program at the University of Arizona. There is no Office of East Colfax Prostitutes and Naturalization to provide us with facts. So I guess if ignorance is bliss, you must be quite happy!
October 17, 2008

9:55 p.m.

Suggest removal

BaryGetz writes:

COLib- "They have businesses that YOU and YOUR Peers HIRE ILLEGALLY..What YOU are doing is ILLEGAL."

I don't remember saying that I hired illegals, to use your words nice assumption dude.nice.

To answer your question I live in Park Hill today.
October 17, 2008

10:30 p.m.

Suggest removal

Cowboy63 writes:

Ritter is done. Tancredo is just pointing out how ineffective Ritter has been dealing with illegal immigration.

Tancredo WILL be the next Governor of Colorado and that day can't come soon enough for me.
October 17, 2008

10:37 p.m.

Suggest removal

ClintEastwood writes:

Hey Ritter,

The people side with Tancredo. Listen to him or you will be a one term governor!
October 17, 2008

10:40 p.m.

Suggest removal

EXrepublican writes:

Soon Tancredo will be a nightmarish memory. He will slide into the pages of Klan history. To be ridiculed, and forgotten.
October 17, 2008

10:46 p.m.

Suggest removal

mmannino writes:

BaryGetz,

You accuse me of bias and you use the Udall center. Both Udalls support amnesty and open borders. Both Udalls support vast increases in government spending.

The study by Robert Recker is reasonably solid. The study is based on a very reasonable assertion that the fiscal impact of immigrants varies strongly according to immigrants’ education level. I challenge you to refute the basic assertion of his study.

Amnesty and open southern borders would enable a very large number of poorly educated immigrants to flood the country. Because these immigrants would be legal, they would be entitled to a large number of government programs. They would undoubtedly be net tax users for many years. The Democrats have proposed at least 7 new refundable tax credits (welfare). The new immigrant population would take advantage of these new tax credits as well as many other government welfare programs. In the current tax systems as well as the one proposed by the Democrats, 40% of the population does not pay income taxes. A large part of this population pay negative taxes in that they receive refundable tax credits.
October 17, 2008

11:59 p.m.

Suggest removal

sac621 writes:

IBronco wrote:

'm a Obama supporter, Lib on pretty much everything except for this invasion from down south. Close that border and kick out the illegals immediately. Unemployment, it was said today, may reach 9% in a year. AMERICAN JOBS FOR REAL AMERICANS ONLY. America of course meaning the United States of America!

I'm a McCain Supporter,
And I agree with Bronco on this Issue.
Now it is imperative to hire Americans.
I know that a lot of Illegals send their money back home and not use it here.
An American will spend all of it here.
Buy American ,Hire American ....Be American...First
October 18, 2008

12:52 a.m.

Suggest removal

BetterEducated writes:

I really agree with the theory that Denver needs to comply with state law and often does not, thinking it's above the law. This is not the time to argue what the state law ought to be; it's my understanding there already is one, and Denver is ignoring it. That's different.
As a state native, I have been bothered by an apparent philosophy on the part of Denver AND the totally separate political subdivision school district DPS within its borders, that these local governments can do whatever they want to whomever they want. Frankly, it's turned me off of the state as a whole.
October 18, 2008

3:41 a.m.

Suggest removal

HIGH writes:

Why does Tancredo come across as a huge racist?? Yeah I know sneaking into the US is illegal but seriously??? Its gonna happen whether or not you or Tancredo likes it. Do people know that the city of Denver in a few years will be mostly people of color? People as close minded as Tancredo need to realize that and get over the fact that the demographics of the US is changing and embrace what different cultures can bring.
October 18, 2008

5:30 a.m.

Suggest removal

mrfxx writes:

chester writes:
If our new residents were Swedes or Danes, we would not be hearing a peep out of them.

Want to bet? The vast majority of us have NO problem with LEGAL immigrants. We also understand that it is a slap in the face to the 3-8 MILLION folks (including I might add, a large number of folks from south of the US border) waiting to come here legally (and have already passed security checks) to offer amnesty to the illegals.

The unemployment statistics are a lie - they only count the folks who are receiving unemployment and could be at least TRIPLE that number. Legal workers can spend as much as 2 years looking for a new job - because greedy employers would rather hire illegals, folks with "limited time" guest worker visas (including H1Bs who typically earn 1/3 less than citizens and legal permanent residents) or having the jobs offshored. If/when the legal workers do find a job, it is frequently at less than needed to support the cost of living.

If chester and his ilk don't understand that getting rid of jobs for legal workers has contributed heavily to the current economic problems in this country, either they are too blinded by greed or too naive to pay attention for facts. I am more than willing to invest every dime I have in any company or companies that wake up and realize that protecting the legal US workforce is quite possibly the single biggest security issue this country has - and I would LOVE to see illegal employers behind bars - after their businesses are fined out of existence.

By the way - those countries where jobs are being offshored actually indulge in protectionism of their workforces (both by labor laws, residency requirements and/or currency manipulation), so the US business whine that "protection is bad" is incomplete - it may be bad for their profits, but that's about all it is bad for - and I'd really love to know how many houses, cars, etc upper management really needs and what they plan to do when their own children, grandchildren and great-grandchildren move back in with them because they can't find jobs either.
October 18, 2008

6:49 a.m.

Suggest removal

Rangerjoe1 writes:

Tom represent all the working family that have their jobs and business destroyed by illegals and politicians. God-Bless you Tom.
Everyone knows that Denver is a sanctuary city. They just like slave labor and the warm and fuzzy feeling of sacrificing your job and business to "help bring slaves to Denver".
October 18, 2008

8:21 a.m.

Suggest removal

Heidi writes:

I have seen a small town deteriorate due to the influx of illegal aliens. The hospital had to close it's doors because it could not survive anymore due to the many illegal patients who did not pay their bills. I fear if we wait any longer here to fix this problem, the same thing will be happening in Denver. We need more politicians like Tancredo to protect our community. We are past the point of being proactive. The reactive action in this situation will not work if more time goes by.
October 18, 2008

8:28 a.m.

Suggest removal

cs writes:

EXrepublican

Where do you get off stating Tancredo will slide into the pages of KKK history? What a fool you are. There's nothing racist about anything that Tom Tancredo has EVER done. He has stood up for the law abiding, LEGAL citizens of this country, fighting to rid us of the ILLEGAL leaches that have invaded this country. What about enforcing the immigration laws of this country don't you understand? You are another defender of lawbreakers who unlawfully sneak over the borders, ignore the law, drain our resources, get free medical care, get free education, commit crimes, bring drugs into this country, murder, and the list goes on. That's right, fool, twist all this around to be a racist issue. EVERY crime committed by an illegal in this country is a crime that should have NEVER happened. EVERY ILLEGAL in this country has committed a crime just by entering this country illegally. How dare you connect Tancredo to the KKK? You're an idiot to say the least.

Ritter is the one you should be trashing. As DA he let ILLEGAL after ILLEGAL go after he reduced charges to AGRICULTURAL TRESPASS. Yeah, commit a crime and RITTER will get you off if you're an illegal. They should have been shipped back over the border. RITTER SHOULD BE ASHAMED.
October 18, 2008

8:38 a.m.

Suggest removal

Heidi writes:

cs writes:

EXrepublican

Where do you get off stating Tancredo will slide into the pages of KKK history?

I suppose it depends on who will be writing the history.
October 18, 2008

8:57 a.m.

Suggest removal

WHATRIGHTS writes:

I would like to know the stats on the percentage of identity thefts that are committed by illegals in this country. My understanding from classes I took around the issue that it is an increasing number daily.....I have no facts around it, but I do work for a company that does credit checks and have ran across quite a few situations where there was a fraud alert on the credit report when questioning the customer they didn't respond just left. I have also seen where a SSN number had 12 people's name tied to it.....
October 18, 2008

9 a.m.

Suggest removal

Heidi writes:

WHATRIGHTS,

What sad it that there are so many sources of such stats that we can't trust any of them!
October 18, 2008

9:07 a.m.

Suggest removal

DahmersCookbook writes:

Illegals are like cancer, period.
October 18, 2008

9:16 a.m.

Suggest removal

WHATRIGHTS writes:

Heidi,
Agreed...there could never really be any good data around it only speculation as I don't think that illegals will come out to say hey I am an illegal, I wanna participate in your case study...you know, you have to go off of experience and what turns up over time from other sources.

I thought a nice spin how illegals don't pay tax but funnel money into our society through buying more or working so cheap that it helps keep prices down. Please, if I didn't have to pay 40% in taxes, I would obviously work for 25% less pay and have more money to spend "buying".....
October 18, 2008

9:22 a.m.

Suggest removal

slocatch writes:

I live in a neighborhood next to Invesco field, where more people walk in the streets than on the sidewalks. Thanks to all of our wonderful leaders. None of these people have cousins that live next to our leaders. Mass exploitation of illegals is taking place at my expense. Thank you Tom for all you do.
October 18, 2008

9:23 a.m.

Suggest removal

Heidi writes:

There will never be any accurate stats on how much money the illegals send to their home country, either. I will just rely on common sense to know that they are not doing any good for our economy.
October 18, 2008

9:30 a.m.

Suggest removal

Existentalism writes:

I work for the parks dept here in Denver, and I pick up after the homeless have spent the night in our various parks around the city, and I can tell you from firsthand experience that Denver never has, nor does it now, enforce the arresting and deportation of illegals in this city.
I see hundreds of these people every day and over the past 3 years, their numbers have not dwindled any at all.
Ritter has not kept his word on this subject, and the police do not arrest the illegals when they come across them.
I can attest to this first hand.
October 18, 2008

9:30 a.m.

Suggest removal

Uno writes:

Bary goes; “Get off the couch and use your citizen status to elevate yourself so you don't have to compete with people who can't speak english.” – well, retard, first I don’t have to compete with illegals in my job, you don’t even know what I do for a living. Also, what is that have to do with high crime rates, increased burden on the taxpayers, lowering standards in the schools and killing and maiming our citizens? Why is there such high number of hispanic surnames in connection with serious crimes committed in the news almost every day? If you think that’s acceptable than you’re part of the problem, not the solution.
October 18, 2008

10:23 a.m.

Suggest removal

BigSky182 writes:

Do the math.

An illegal immigrant driving an unlicensed, unregistered, uninsured vehicle pays 0 income tax,0 Social Security, 0 Unemployment (fake ssn, w-2 claims exempt status),and 0 property tax (rented home, unregistered vehicle).

BUT

He can have 9 kids in Public School, in subsidize childcare, on welfare, and getting subsidized health care.

How can anyone logically believe that these people are paying enough sales tax (the ONLY tax they pay and then only because they have no choice) to balance out the drain that they create by using Government programs?

Do you think that if you handed this guy a SS Card and made him a legal citizen that he would suddenly be inspired to register his car, buy a home, get off welfare, and start paying his own medical bills?

Consider this: If YOU had had a free pass from paying taxes and were then offered a chance to start paying them again... would YOU take it?

And as if the drain on the taxpayers weren't bad enough, now we have Lawyers, fighting for illegals, demanding that Schools teach in Spanish, that Mexican flags be flown in Schools, that Mexican holidays be celebrated.... this is insane.

They can celebrate whatever holidays they want but they have no right to insist that I acknowledge it as a holiday. They have no right to diminish my son's education by insisting that the School spend extra for bilingual teachers and making the teacher repeat every lesson in Spanish. They have no right to benefit from MY tax dollars to feed, educate, and babysit THEIR children.

As a matter of fact, they have no RIGHTS at all. The Constitution protects the rights of all Americans.

These people are NOT Americans... nor do they want to be.
October 18, 2008

11:21 a.m.

Suggest removal

SanctuaryCity writes:

Tancredo for Govenor or US senator in 2010. That will eliminate the sanctuary practices of agricultural trespass slick willie and amnesty ken pursue. I hold the current regime totally responsible for all the victim tragedies resultant of those illegals. There needs to be criminal prosecution for those politicians who fail to defend the people as they are sworn in to protect and defend the constitution of the U.S. They all need to be held accessories to the murders, rapes, armed robberies, drug deals and burgleries that you read about in the papers day after day from those illegals.
October 18, 2008

11:28 a.m.

Suggest removal

Kukulcan writes:

@ The_Punnisher

Hey Einstein; In case you didn't know, Spain is in Europe! Spaniards are Europeans, southern Europeans to be sure, but EUROPEANS nonetheless!

Spanish is a European language, Spanish espouse Roman Catholicism, which is a traditional European religion!

Thus, like I said;

Europeans came here ILLEGALLY themselves!

Spaniards were never more than 10% of Mexicos ppl. For 300+ years, they practiced strict APARTHEID with the indigenous Mexican population. They also brought over few women, and mixed race persons (Spanish + Indian) were as subject to racial apartheid as the indigenous Mexicans.

This is why Latin America has the most EXTREME income/wealth disparities on earth.

Even today, 30% of Mexicos ppl are full blooded Indian, 60% are mixed race (Mestizo) and a mere 9% are caucasian--according to the US State Dept;

Ethnic groups: Indian-Spanish (mestizo) 60%, Indian 30%, Caucasian 9%, other 1%.

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/3574...

Finally, it's worth noting that the so called "Aztecs" called themselves MEXICA!

http://www.wsu.edu/~dee/CIVAMRCA/AZTE...

Christopher Columbus = FIRST "Illegal Alien"
October 18, 2008

11:35 a.m.

Suggest removal

timbryan writes:

"Illegal immigration re-emerged as a hot-button issue last month after an illegal immigrant broadsided a pickup truck and sent both vehicles careening into a Baskin Robbins in Aurora. Two women in the pickup truck and a 3-year-old boy inside the ice-cream shop were killed. Francis Hernandez, 23, had been arrested numerous times but never deported."

It's time to start putting the politicians in prison. One day, ALL of you democrat and republican bastards who've done nothing to protect our families are going to be charged retroactively for your crimes
October 18, 2008

11:41 a.m.

Suggest removal

Uno writes:

Kuku, again, what is that have to do with high crime rates, increased burden on the taxpayers, lowering standards in the schools and killing and maiming our citizens? Why is there such high number of hispanic surnames in connection with serious crimes in the news almost every day? Today, not hundreds of years ago.
October 18, 2008

11:42 a.m.

Suggest removal

Kukulcan writes:

@ BigSky182

"As a matter of fact, they have no RIGHTS at all. The Constitution protects the rights of all Americans."

Can you explain the difference between the words CITIZEN and PERSON? Is an undocumented immigrant a PERSON? Why does the United States Constitution sometimes use the word CITIZEN , and at other times, use the word PERSON?

Example;

14th Amendment of the United States Constitution;

"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

Ahem, wouldn't the following apply to PERSONS who are undocumented immigrants?

"nor shall any state deprive any PERSON of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any PERSON within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

Fact is, they DO have legal rights under the United States Constitution!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckT1PA...
October 18, 2008

11:50 a.m.

Suggest removal

Heidi writes:

kukulcan,

What written laws on immigration were there when Columbus came here? And just because illegal immigration has been overlooked for several years doesn't mean we should let it continue. It has gone on too long!
October 18, 2008

11:54 a.m.

Suggest removal

Kukulcan writes:

@ Uno

The fact is; crime is DECLINING, across the nation, even as immigration SKYROCKETS!

FBI-Preliminary Uniform Crime Report released June 9, 2008

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/2007prelim/ind...

Why are SANCTUARY CITIES like Denver, San Francisco, Los Angeles and New York seeing such dramatic declines in violent crime, from 2006 to 2007, according to the latest FBI crime statistics?

LOS ANGELES

2006 30,526
2007 27,801

SAN FRANCISCO

2006 6,533
2007 6,412

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/2007prelim/tab...

DENVER

2006 4,324
2007 3,550

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/2007prelim/tab...

New York

2006 52,086
2007 50,453

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/2007prelim/tab...

What accounts for even more dramatic drops in violent crime in these California cities? I selected these cities specifically because they have large "Hispanic" populations. Violent crime in Oaklandis down because of punitive measures against "illegal aliens"? What about LOS ANGELES?

CALIFORNIA

ANAHEIM

2006 1,524
2007 1,441

CHULA VISTA
2006 947
2007 921

FRESNO
2006 3,524
2007 3,044

INGLEWOOD
2006 1,051
2007 1,036

LOS ANGELES
2006 30,526
2007 27,801

OAKLAND
2006 7,599
2007 7,351

SACRAMENTO
2006 5,556
2007 5,128

SAN DIEGO
2006 6,391
2007 6,332

SANTA ANA
2006 1,998
2007 1,947

SAN FRANCISCO
2006 6,533
2007 6,412

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/2007prelim/tab...

Violent crime has been declining for 15+ years, this latest report simply re-inforces that long term trend. Yet, the last 15 years have seen the highest levels of US immigration of all time!

http://www.wjh.harvard.edu/soc/facult...

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/idea...

http://www.wjh.harvard.edu/soc/facult...

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/st...

http://www.wjh.harvard.edu/soc/facult...

WHY IS CRIME DECLINING EVEN AS IMMIGRATION SKYROCKETS?
October 18, 2008

11:58 a.m.

Suggest removal

Dynamicdave writes:

Kukulcan, beep, wrong, but thank you for playing. You're reading the statement but 'generalizing" it and making it into what you want it to be, much the same way someone reads the bible and forms their own conclusion. I take this from your quote: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside.", unquote. The key words their are "born or naturalized". Which part of that didn't you understand? The illegals were neither "born" nor "naturalized". They snuck across the border like thieves in the night and steal from the taxpayers of this country. Get a clue. Your supporting of these criminals is what is helping the decline of this country. I fought for my country. I'm still fighting for it, it seems, only now, it's been brought, literally, to my front doorstep.
October 18, 2008

12:02 p.m.

Suggest removal

Kukulcan writes:

@ Heidi

The bottom line is that Europeans, Spaniards as well as others, moved onto land belonging to indigenous ppls, WITHOUT THEIR PERMISSION!

They proceeded to rape, pillage and plunder. They slaughtered 10s of millions! The EUROPEAN Spaniards killed 25 million Mexicas alone!

If thats NOT illegal immigration, then what are you whining about today?

Andrew Jackson and Indian Removal

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiVXJS...
October 18, 2008

12:06 p.m.

Suggest removal

Heidi writes:

kulkulcan,

That's why I said we should not let it continue! I wasn't around during those times you mentioned so I couldn't protest it then.
October 18, 2008

12:08 p.m.

Suggest removal

Kukulcan writes:

@ Dynamicdave

Europeans snuck onto this land themselves!

Just tell me this Dynamicdave;

What is the difference between the words PERSON and CITIZEN?

14th Amendment

"nor shall any state deprive any PERSON of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any PERSON within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

Why does the Constitution sometimes use the word CITIZEN , and at other times, use the word PERSON?

Also, your contention that they are CRIMINALS is simply untrue!

Jaywalking is illegal, does that mean jaywalkers are CRIMINALS?

What about speeders?

"While an illegal alien is subject to deportation, that person's ongoing presence in the United States in and of itself is not a crime, unless that person had been previously deported and regained illegal entry into this country."

http://www.kscourts.org/Cases-and-Opi...

Former US Attorney for the southern district of New York, Rudy Giuliani;

"Glenn, being an illegal immigrant, the 400,000 were not prosecuted for crimes by the federal government, nor could they be. I was U.S. attorney in the southern district of New York. So believe me, I know this. In fact, when you throw an immigrant out of the country, it’s not a criminal proceeding. It’s a civil proceeding."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDo-ZV...

U.S. Attorney Christopher Christie Serving the District of New Jersey;

"Being in this country without proper documentation is not a crime," Christie told more than 60 residents and town officials. "The whole phrase of 'illegal immigrant' connotes that the person, by just being here, is committing a crime."

Being undocumented may be a civil wrong, but it's not a criminal act, Christie said.

"Don't let people make you believe that that's a crime that the U.S. Attorney's Office should be doing something about," he added of entering the country illegally. "It is not."

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2008...
October 18, 2008

12:17 p.m.

Suggest removal

Kukulcan writes:

David Card
Center of Labor Economics
University of California, Berkeley
http://elsa.berkeley.edu/econ/faculty...

"If Mexicans were taller and whiter," said University of California, Berkeley, professor David Card, "it would probably be a lot easier" for the public to accept the majority view of economists that the net effects of immigration, which is now predominantly Latino, are positive.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/09/mag...

Nebraskas Immigrant population; Economic and fiscal impacts

http://www.unomaha.edu/ollas/Econ%20I...

Undocumented Immigrants in Texas; A Financial Analysis of the Impact to the State Budget and Economy
Carole Keeton Strayhorn; Texas Comptroller

“The absence of the estimated 1.4 million undocumented immigrants in Texas in fiscal 2005 would have been a loss to our gross state product of $17.7 billion. Undocumented immigrants produced $1.58 billion in state revenues, which exceeded the $1.16 billion in state services they received."

http://www.cpa.state.tx.us/specialrpt...

The Economic Impacts of Immigrants in Arizona
Udall Center for Studies in Public Policy
The University of Arizona

http://azeir.org/pdf/2007_07_immigran...

Total state tax revenue attributable to immigrant workers was an estimated $2.4 billion The study also looks at what impact the removal of as little as 10-15% of the immigrant workforce would have on the state's economy. Over $.5 billion in tax revenues would be lost, 125,000 jobs and $13.5 billion of lost economic output.
October 18, 2008

12:23 p.m.

Suggest removal

Heidi writes:

kulk,

Yes, jaywalking is a crime because it is illegal!

Why are you upset that illegal immigration has happened in the past but you totally support it now? If you believe all of those financial stats you posted, maybe it is all about money to you?
October 18, 2008

12:23 p.m.

Suggest removal

Kukulcan writes:

Lou Dobbs was caught, by CBS 60 minutes, lying when confronted about the statement on his show that; there had been 7,000 cases of leprosy in this country over the previous three years, attributing most of this to undocumented immigrants;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PM1SNm...

http://hrsa.gov/hansens/30yeartrend.htm

Lou Dobbs: Definition of a Liar

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJfM59...

Lou Dobbs vs Lou Dobbs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10X7BO...
October 18, 2008

12:25 p.m.

Suggest removal

Heidi writes:

Hi Dave, did you have fun last night?
October 18, 2008

12:28 p.m.

Suggest removal

Kukulcan writes:

Heidi,

Jaywalking is illegal, but NOT a crime!

It's a CIVIL infraction! As such, it's a perfect example of how something can be ILLEGAL, yet not rise to the status of CRIME!

DUH!

It's "not about race", just listen to Fox "News" commentators, Bill O'Reilly and John Gibson...

http://mediamatters.org/items/2006051...

http://mediamatters.org/items/2006051...
October 18, 2008

12:30 p.m.

Suggest removal

BigSky182 writes:

Um... kuku...

http://dictionary.reference.com/brows...

il·le·gal /ɪˈligəl/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[i-lee-guhl] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation

–adjective 1. forbidden by law or statute.
2. contrary to or forbidden by official rules, regulations, etc.: The referee ruled that it was an illegal forward pass.
–noun 3. Informal. illegal alien.
October 18, 2008

12:32 p.m.

Suggest removal

Kukulcan writes:

On Immigrants and Crime: An Open Letter to the Nation’s Policymakers

Dear Mr. President, Members of Congress, and Governors:
Immigration has enriched the economy and culture of the United States since the founding of the nation. Yet immigrants long have been scapegoats for many social problems that afflict the nation. As a result, myths and stereotypes about immigrants, rather than established facts, far too often serve as the basis for public perceptions that drive misguided immigration policies.
One of the most pervasive misperceptions about immigrants is that they are more likely to commit predatory crimes than are the native-born. Popular movies, television series, and a sensationalizing news media propagate the enduring image of immigrant communities permeated by crime and violence. But this widespread belief is simply wrong.

Signed

Richard D. Alba
The University at Albany, State University of New York
Distinguished Professor of Sociology and Public Policy

Sarah Babb
Boston College
Associate Professor of Sociology

Stanley R. Bailey
University of California, Irvine
Assistant Professor of Sociology

Susan Benesch
Georgetown University Law Center
Fellow, Center for Applied Legal Studies

Ann Benson
Immigration Project, Washington Defender Association
Directing Attorney

Irene Bloemraad
University of California, Berkeley

Kitty Calavita
University of California, Irvine
Professor of Criminology, Law and Society

Patrick J. Carr
Rutgers University
Assistant Professor of Sociology

Miguel Ceballos
University of Nebraska, Lincoln
Assistant Professor of Sociology and Ethnic Studies

Jorge Chapa
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Professor of Sociology and Director, Center on Democracy in a Multiracial Society

Leo R. Chávez
University of California, Irvine
Professor of Anthropology

Linda Chavez
One Nation Indivisible
President

David Cook-Martín
Grinnell College
Assistant Professor of Sociology

G. David Curry
University of Missouri-St. Louis
Professor of Criminology & Criminal Justice

Cynthia García Coll
Brown University
Charles Pitt Robinson and John Palmer Barstow Professor of Education
Psychology and Pediatrics

Wayne A. Cornelius
University of California, San Diego
Theodore Gildred Distinguished Professor of Political Science and U.S.-Mexican Relations
Director, Center for Comparative Immigration Studies

Mark E. Courtney
University of Chicago
McCormick Tribune Professor of Social Service Administration, and Past Director, Chapin Hall Center for Children

http://www.immigrationpolicy.org/imag...
October 18, 2008

12:32 p.m.

Suggest removal

Dynamicdave writes:

Kukulcan, yeah, yeah, yeah. We came, we conquered, get over it. You want to bring up crap from "how many hundreds of years ago? Get a life, man. My ancestors were forced over to this country as serfs. Things happen. But this country is ours now and we will fight to protect it. If you don't like the way this country was taken, move out! Go away. Save your bleeding heart liberal attitude for someone who will really want to hear it. Your analogy is weak.
October 18, 2008

12:35 p.m.

Suggest removal

Kukulcan writes:

Pawan Dhingra
Oberlin College
Associate Professor of Sociology and Comparative American Studies

Cynthia Duarte
Quinnipiac University
Assistant Professor of Sociology

Finn Esbensen
University of Missouri-St. Louis
E. Desmond Lee Chair in Youth Crime and Violence
Professor of Criminology and Criminal Justice

Walter A. Ewing Immigration Policy Center
American Immigration Law Foundation
Research Associate

Joe R. Feagin
Texas A&M University
Professor of Sociology and Past President, American Sociological Association

Lynne R. Feldman
University of Illinois College of Law
Adjunct Professor

Katherine Fennelly
University of Minnesota
Professor and Fesler-Lampert Chair in Urban and Regional Affairs

Nancy Foner
Hunter College and Graduate Center, City University of New York
Distinguished Professor of Sociology

Bill Form
Ohio State University
Professor Emeritus of Sociology

Reanne Frank
Ohio State University
Assistant Professor of Sociology

Brian Fry
Indiana Wesleyan University
Associate Professor of Sociology

Andrew J. Fuligni
University of California, Los Angeles
Professor of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences

Elizabeth Fussell
Tulane University
Assistant Professor of Sociology

Roberta Garner
DePaul University
Professor and Chair of Sociology

Tanya Golash-Boza
University of Kansas
Assistant Professor of Sociology and American Studies

William A. Gamson
Boston College
Past President, American Sociological Association

Herbert J Gans
Columbia University
Robert S. Lynd Professor of Sociology, and Past President, American Sociological Association

Paul S. Gray
Boston College
Associate Professor of Sociology

John Hagan
Northwestern University
John D. MacArthur Professor of Sociology and Law; Senior Research Fellow, American Bar Foundation, and Editor of Annual Review of Law & Social Science

Marilyn Halter
Boston University
Professor of History
Director, American & New England Studies Program Research Associate, Institute on Culture, Religion and World Affairs

Douglas Hartmann
University of Minnesota

Angela J. Hattery
Wake Forest University
Zachary T. Smith Reynolds Associate Professor of Sociology and Women & Gender Studies

Bruce D. Haynes
University of California, Davis
Associate Professor of Sociology

Bill Ong Hing
University of California, Davis
Professor of Law

Julie Horney
The University at Albany, State University of New York
Dean and Professor, School of Criminal Justice

Jennifer L. Hochschild
Harvard University
Henry LaBarre Jayne Professor of Government, Professor of African and African American Studies
Harvard College Professor

Jennifer Holdaway, Ph.D.
Social Science Research Council
Program Officer, International Migration Program

Michael Hout
University of California, Berkeley
Professor of Sociology and Demography
October 18, 2008

12:36 p.m.

Suggest removal

Heidi writes:

Kuk,

Jaywalking is a misdemeanor in some jurisdictions but may not be here.

You didn't answer my question about why you are so opposed to the illegal immingration in the past but support it now.
October 18, 2008

12:36 p.m.

Suggest removal

Kukulcan writes:

C. Ronald Huff
University of California, Irvine
Dean, School of Social Ecology, and Professor of Criminology, Law and Society

Charles Jaret
Georgia State University
Professor of Sociology

Paul Jesilow
University of California, Irvine
Associate Professor of Criminology, Law and Society

Tomás R. Jiménez
University of California, San Diego

Benjamin E. Johnson
American Immigration Law Foundation
Executive Director

Susanne Jonas
University of California, Santa Cruz
Professor of Latin American and Latino Studies

Arne L. Kalleberg
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
Kenan Distinguished Professor of Sociology, and President-Elect, American Sociological Association

Daniel Kanstroom
Boston College Law School
Professor and Director of Human Rights Program

Philip Kasinitz
Hunter College and Graduate Center, City University of New York
Professor of Sociology, and Past President, Eastern Sociological Society

Robert Kaufman
Ohio State University
Professor of Sociology

Nazli Kibria
Boston University
Associate Professor of Sociology

Caitlin Killian
Drew University
Associate Professor of Sociology

Dae Young Kim
University of Maryland, College Park
Assistant Professor of Sociology and Asian American Studies

Peter Kivisto
Augustana College
Richard Swanson Professor of Social Thought and Chair of Sociology

Fred Kniss
Loyola University, Chicago

Lauren J. Krivo
Ohio State University
Professor of Sociology

Gary LaFree
University of Maryland, College Park
Professor of Criminology and Criminal Justice

Ralph W. Larkin
John Jay College of Criminal Justice, City University of New York
Senior Research Associate

Janet L. Lauritsen
University of Missouri-St. Louis
Professor of Criminology & Criminal Justice

Sylvia R. Lazos
University of Nevada, Las Vegas, William S. Boyd School of Law
Justice Myron Leavitt Professor of Law

Ivan Light
University of California, Los Angeles
Professor of Sociology

April Linton
University of California, San Diego
Assistant Professor of Sociology
October 18, 2008

12:38 p.m.

Suggest removal

The_Punnisher writes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kukulcan

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agent_pr...

Need I say more?

You know what the relationship just might be between the two Wiki entries...
October 18, 2008

12:38 p.m.

Suggest removal

Kukulcan writes:

Lyn H. Lofland
University of California, Davis
Professor of Sociology

Scott M. Lynch
Princeton University
Associate Professor of Sociology

Theo Majka
University of Dayton
Professor of Sociology

Ramiro Martínez, Jr.
Florida International University
Professor of Criminal Justice

Helen B. Marrow
Harvard University
Co-editor, The New Americans: A Guide to Immigration Since 1965

Douglas S. Massey
Princeton University
Henry G. Bryant Professor of Sociology and Public Affairs
President, American Academy of Political and Social Science, and Past President, American Sociological Association

Monica McDermott
Stanford University
Assistant Professor of Sociology

Sara S. McLanahan
Princeton University
William S. Tod Professor of Sociology and Public Affairs

M. Isabel Medina
Loyola University, New Orleans, College of Law
Ferris Family Professor of Law

Cecilia Menjívar
Arizona State University
Associate Professor of Sociology

Vanessa Merton
Pace University School of Law
Professor of Law and Faculty Supervisor, Immigration Justice Clinic, John Jay Legal Services, Inc.

Jon'a Meyer
Rutgers University
Associate Professor of Criminology

Jody Miller
University of Missouri-St. Louis
Associate Professor of Sociology

Teresa A. Miller
The University at Buffalo School of Law, State University of New York
Professor of Law

Joya Misra
University of Massachusetts
Associate Professor of Sociology and Public Policy

John H. Mollenkopf
City University of New York, Graduate Center
Distinguished Professor of Political Science and Sociology and Director of the Center for Urban Research

Jeylan T. Mortimer
University of Minnesota
Professor of Sociology

Nancy A. Naples
University of Connecticut
Professor of Sociology and Women's Studies

Katherine S. Newman
Princeton University
Forbes '41 Professor of Sociology and Public Affairs

Dina G. Okamoto
University of California, Davis
Assistant Professor of Sociology

Michael A. Olivas
University of Houston Law Center
William B. Bates Distinguished Chair of Law, and Director, Institute of Higher Education Law and Governance

D. Wayne Osgood
The Pennsylvania State University
Professor, Crime, Law and Justice Program

Nancy K. Ota
Albany Law School
Professor of Law

Sarah Paoletti
University of Pennsylvania Law School
Clinical Supervisor and Lecturer, Transnational Legal Clinic

Karen F. Parker
University of Delaware
Associate Professor of Sociology and Criminal Justice

Mary Pattillo
Northwestern University
Professor and Chair of Sociology and African-American Studies

http://www.immigrationpolicy.org/imag...
October 18, 2008

12:38 p.m.

Suggest removal

BigSky182 writes:

People who enter, reside in, and work in our Country in OPEN DEFIANCE of our LAWS are committing a crime. That makes them criminals.

http://dictionary.reference.com/brows...
criminal
noun
1. someone who has committed a crime or has been legally convicted of a crime

Criminals who display OPEN DEFIANCE of our laws are more likely to commit other crimes because they DON'T CARE WHAT THE LAW SAYS.

de·fi·ance /dɪˈfaɪəns/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[di-fahy-uhns] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. a daring or bold resistance to authority or to any opposing force.
2. open disregard; contempt (often fol. by of): defiance of danger; His refusal amounted to defiance.
3. a challenge to meet in combat or in a contest.
—Idioms4. bid defiance to, to offer resistance; defy.
5. in defiance of, in spite of; notwithstanding: There was a splendid audience in defiance of the rainstorm.

http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer...

Newly released statistics from the Department of Homeland Security show:

In 2002, the federal government located 1,062,279 deportable aliens, of whom:
97 percent had entered the country illegally;
93 percent were from Mexico;
90 percent were apprehended by the Border Patrol;
88 percent were apprehended along the southern border.

In 2002, 1,082,174 aliens were expelled from the U.S.;
86 percent submitted to removal without a legal battle;
14 percent were removed after a formal procedure.

Of those who were removed by a formal procedure:
37 percent had entered illegally;
28 percent had attempted fraudulent entry into the United States;
25 percent were criminals;
8 percent had previously been removed and were ineligible for re-entry.
New data from the federal Bureau of Prisons show that 29 percent of the federal prisoner population (or 47,570) are immigrants. This is a slight increase from 1995, when the figure was 25 percent.

(The figure would be much higher if state prisoners were counted, but current data are not available on the nativity status of those additional inmates. Less than eight percent of the country’s prison population are in federal prisons.)

Prisoners from Mexico, Colombia, Cuba, and the Dominican Republic together account for more than one-fifth of the total federal prisoner population.

Incarceration of criminal aliens cost federal prisons $891 million in 2002, according to the most recent available figure from the Bureau of Justice Statistics.
October 18, 2008

12:39 p.m.

Suggest removal

Kukulcan writes:

Susan Pearce, PhD
West Virginia University
Visiting Assistant Professor, Division of Sociology and Anthropology

David N. Pellow
University of California, San Diego
Professor of Ethnic Studies

Michael P. Predmore
Stanford University
Professor of Spanish

Robert D. Putnam
Harvard University
Malkin Professor of Public Policy, Kennedy School of Government

Mary Romero
Arizona State University
Professor of Sociology, Justice & Social Inquiry

Lory D. Rosenberg Author
Former Appellate Immigration Judge, U.S. Board of Immigration Appeals
Adjunct Professor, Washington College of Law

Rubén G. Rumbaut
University of California, Irvine
Professor of Sociology

Robert J. Sampson
Harvard University
Henry Ford II Professor and Chair of Sociology

Mariano Sana
Louisiana State University
Assistant Professor of Sociology

Alex M. Saragoza
University of California, Berkeley
Professor of Ethnic Studies

Leslie Salzinger
Boston College
Associate Professor of Sociology

Joachim J. Savelsberg
University of Minnesota
Professor of Sociology

Armin Schwegler
University of California, Irvine
Professor of Spanish Linguistics & Director of Global Cultures

Denise Segura
University of California, Santa Barbara
Professor of Sociology

Carroll Seron
University of California, Irvine
Professor of Criminology, Law & Society

Andy Silverman
University of Arizona, Rogers College of Law
Joseph M. Livermore Professor of Law and Director of Clinical Programs

David A. Smith
University of California, Irvine
Professor of Sociology and Co-Editor, Contemporary Sociology

Robert Smith
Baruch College and the Graduate Center, City University of New York
Associate Professor of Sociology, Immigration Studies and Public Affairs

Deborah Smith
University of Montana School of Law
Adjunct Professor

Laurel Smith-Doerr
Boston University
Assistant Professor of Sociology

Dan R. Smulian
Brooklyn Law School
Assistant Professor of Clinical Law

Janet P. Stamatel
The University at Albany, State University of New York
Assistant Professor of Criminal Justice

Norman H. Stamper, Ph.D.
Chief of Police, Seattle (Ret.),
Chief of Police, San Diego (Ret.)

Judith Stepan-Norris
University of California, Irvine
Professor of Sociology

Carola Suárez-Orozco
New York University
Chair and Professor of Applied Psychology; Co-Director of Immigration Studies, Steinhardt School of Culture, Education & Human Development, NYU

Terrance J. Taylor
University of Missouri-St. Louis
Associate Research Professor of Criminology and Criminal Justice
October 18, 2008

12:40 p.m.

Suggest removal

Kukulcan writes:

Barrie Thorne
University of California, Berkeley
Professor of Sociology and Professor and Chair of Gender & Women's Studies

Marta Tienda
Princeton University
Professor of Sociology and Public Affairs, and Past President, Population Association of America

Donald Tomaskovic-Devy
University of Massachusetts
Professor and Chair of Sociology

Enid Trucios-Haynes
University of Louisville, Brandeis School of Law
Professor of Law

Ruth N. López Turley
University of Wisconsin, Madison
Assistant Professor of Sociology

Jeffery T. Ulmer
The Pennsylvania State University
Associate Professor of Sociology and Crime, Law, and Justice

Abel Valenzuela Jr.
University of California, Los Angeles
Associate Professor of Urban Planning

Edward Vargas
Indiana University-Bloomington
Associate Instructor of Public and Environmental Affairs

Alexander T. Vazsonyi
Auburn University
Professor of Human Development and Family Studies

Geoff Ward
Northeastern University
Assistant Professor of Criminal Justice

R. Stephen Warner
University of Illinois at Chicago
Professor of Sociology

Mary C. Waters
Harvard University
M.E. Zukerman Professor of Sociology

Deborah M. Weissman
University of North Carolina School of Law
Professor of Law and Director of Clinical Programs

Bruce Western
Princeton University
Professor of Sociology

Judith Wittner
Loyola University, Chicago
Professor of Sociology

Norman R. Yetman
The University of Kansas
Emeritus Professor of American Studies & Sociology

Min Zhou
University of California, Los Angeles
Professor of Sociology & Asian American Studies

Aristide R. Zolberg
New School for Social Research
Walter Eberstadt Professor of Political Science

Frank M. Afflitto, Ph.D.
Kentucky Wesleyan College
Assistant Professor of Criminal Justice

Alan Aja
Brooklyn College (CUNY)
Professor of Puerto Rican & Latino Studies

A. Aneesh
University of Wisconsin
Assistant Professor of Sociology and Global Studies

Judith Blau
University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill
Professor

María Estela
Brisk Boston College
Professor, Lynch School of Education

Natasha Cabrera
University of Maryland
Professor

Charissa S. L. Cheah, Ph.D.
University of Maryland, Baltimore County
Assistant Professor of Psychology

José A. Cobas, Ph.D.
Arizona State University
Professor of Sociology, School of Social and Family Dynamics

Julie A. Dowling, Ph.D.
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Assistant Professor of Latina/Latino Studies Program

Dina Francesca Haynes
New England School of Law
Professor
October 18, 2008

12:40 p.m.

Suggest removal

Heidi writes:

kuku,

Those are just names of persons who have the same opinion as you. I know there are a lot of people that think that way. What does that prove?
October 18, 2008

12:40 p.m.

Suggest removal

Dynamicdave writes:

Heidi, always have fun. I have a local celeb coming by at 1pm to train, then off to the YMCA to teach the students there at 4pm. Just had to read what some of these people are writing. Sheesh. When people are still crying about how this country is ALL illegals from the days of Columbus, that argument is weak. Kukulcan likes to quote from articles and such when he only understands half of what he reads. He only takes from it what suits his needs and doesn't get a full grasp of what it means. Something tells me he is personally related to illegals or something.
October 18, 2008

12:40 p.m.

Suggest removal

Kukulcan writes:

Matthew I. Hirsch
Widener University School of Law
Adjunct Professor of Immigration Law

Carol S. Huntsinger, Ph.D.
College of Lake County
Professor of Psychology and Education

Nikki Jones
University of California
Assistant Professor of Sociology

Christy Woodward Kaupert
San Antonio College
Assistant Professor of Political Science

Maria Kefalas
Saint Joseph's University, Associate Professor
Director, Institute for Violence Research and Prevention

Gabriel Kuperminc, Ph.D.
Georgia State University
Associate Professor of Psychology

Thao Le, Ph.D., MPH
Colorado State University
Assistant Professor of Human Development and Family Studies

Peggy Levitt
Wellesley College
Chair and Associate Professor of Sociology

Ana S.Q. Liberato, Ph.D.
University of Florida
Visiting Assistant Professor, Center for Women's Studies and Gender Research

Dr Patrick McGovern
Princeton University
Visiting Fellow, Department of Sociology

Janet S. Oh, Ph.D.
California State University Northridge
Assistant Professor of Psychology

Irma M. Olmedo
University of Illinois Chicago
Associate Professor

R.S. Oropesa
Department of Sociology
Professor of Sociology & Demography

Julia L. Perilla, Ph.D.
Georgia State University
Associate Professor of Psychology

Lesley Williams Reid
Georgia State University
Associate Professor of Sociology

Stephen T. Russell
University of Arizona
Professor of Family Studies & Human Development
Norton School of Family & Consumer Sciences

Traci Schlesinger, PhD
DePaul University
Assistant Professor

Lisa Patel Stevens, Ph.D.
Boston College
Assistant Professor

http://www.immigrationpolicy.org/imag...
October 18, 2008

12:42 p.m.

Suggest removal

Kukulcan writes:

@ Heidi

Ahem, that's how many PROFESSORS that signed the letter stating;

On Immigrants and Crime: An Open Letter to the Nation’s Policymakers

Dear Mr. President, Members of Congress, and Governors:

Immigration has enriched the economy and culture of the United States since the founding of the nation. Yet immigrants long have been scapegoats for many social problems that afflict the nation. As a result, myths and stereotypes about immigrants, rather than established facts, far too often serve as the basis for public perceptions that drive misguided immigration policies.

One of the most pervasive misperceptions about immigrants is that they are more likely to commit predatory crimes than are the native-born. Popular movies, television series, and a sensationalizing news media propagate the enduring image of immigrant communities permeated by crime and violence. But this widespread belief is simply wrong.

Who do YOU have supporting YOUR claims Heidi?

Tom Tancredo? The Klan?
October 18, 2008

12:44 p.m.

Suggest removal

Kukulcan writes:

What is FAIR?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G06SoM...

It's worth noting that the Western Region Representative of FAIR, until recently, was the openly neo-Nazi, Joe Turner. Turner was the founder and long-time leader of a group the Southern Poverty Law Center lists as a hate group —Save Our State, which developed a reputation for allowing neo-Nazis to participate in its rallies.

http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer...

http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2008/01...

http://www.splcenter.org/intel/news/i...

http://www.promigrant.org/upload/SEIU...
October 18, 2008

12:46 p.m.

Suggest removal

Dynamicdave writes:

Kukulcan, that's immigrants! We are talking about ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS! God, what part of this don't you get?
October 18, 2008

12:47 p.m.

Suggest removal

Heidi writes:

Dave,

I'm guessing he is of Mexican descent (nothing wrong with that) and he is bitter about what happened to his ancestors and fully support what their descendants are doing now.
I am NOT racist. I do feel sorry about what happened to the "natives" of this land, from wherever they originated. There are many arguments on that. I also sympathize with the blacks brought here into slavery. But that is in our past. We need to learn from our past and go into the future, protecting our citizens and anyone following the legal naturalization process.
October 18, 2008

12:48 p.m.

Suggest removal

Kukulcan writes:

Effects of undocumented immigrants on wages;

Growth in the Foreign-Born Workforce
and Employment of the Native Born

Rakesh Kochhar; Associate Director for Research, Pew Hispanic Center

http://pewhispanic.org/files/reports/...

The Immigration Equation is an 8,000 word article by journalist Roger Lowenstein in the July 9th New York Times Sunday Magazine on the controversy over immigration within the economics profession. It focuses on the debate between Goerge Borjas and University of California, Berkeley, Professor of Labor economics, David Card;

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/09/mag...

Comparative Advantages and Gains from Immigration

Chad Sparber (Colgate University)
Giovanni Peri (University of California, Davis

http://wings.buffalo.edu/soc-sci/econ...
October 18, 2008

12:50 p.m.

Suggest removal

Kukulcan writes:

@ Dynamicdave

Dude, ahem, how many PROFESSORS did I just cite?
October 18, 2008

12:52 p.m.

Suggest removal

Heidi writes:

Yes, that was about immigrants, not illegal aliens! I had to do a double take. So you could add my name to that list.
October 18, 2008

12:54 p.m.

Suggest removal

Heidi writes:

Have a good day, Dave. I need to get outside now!
October 18, 2008

12:56 p.m.

Suggest removal

Dynamicdave writes:

Kukulcan, you're great at quoting others and posting websites. We could do the same, but frankly, what's the point? You're not going to sway me with your Liberal rhetoric, no more then I can sway you with an Independent voice. But if you think people are going to take the time to look up even 1/3 of these websites that you, yourself, don't even have a clear understanding of, why would we? It sounds to me like you have someone close to you who is illegally in this country or is attempting to come to America. Your views are so "pro" to allowing the illegals here, it is the only reason that makes sense.
October 18, 2008

1:01 p.m.

Suggest removal

BigSky182 writes:

His kind have no choice but to lump Legal Immigrants into their argument because otherwise, the statistics fall apart.

The effect of ILLEGAL immigration on wages is this:

Libs keep raising minimum wage to the point where small businesses can no longer afford legal employees so they hire the illegals, thus putting American Citizens out of work.

And the illegals can afford to work for less because they don't pay for healthcare, don't pay taxes, don't pay for car insurance, etc.
October 18, 2008

1:01 p.m.

Suggest removal

Dynamicdave writes:

Kukulcan, I repeat, that has to do with IMMIGRANTS, not ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS. I have no problem with a person coming to this country "LEGALLY",making a living and paying taxes. Why are you so insistent to ignore what we have made clear to you? IMMIGRANTS= GOOD
ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS= BAD
Is that clear enough for you? Anyways, I have things I need to do. Heidi, you take care and be cool. If you can't be cool, be cool at it.
October 18, 2008

1:02 p.m.

Suggest removal

Uno writes:

Kuku, you haven’t provided any answer to my questions. May be you can dig some more and provide statistical proof on hispanic’s declining crime rate, since that is what we talking about. It is nice to see that the Contract with America and had tougher sentencing laws have a positive effect in crime fighting. It’s interesting to note also that Dems where vigorously against these efforts.
Also your long list of liberals from Universities are proof of nothing else but reinforcing the fact that liberals are coddling criminals.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contract...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_st...
October 18, 2008

1:05 p.m.

Suggest removal

Heidi writes:

Ditto on what Dave just posted at 12:56.

I think the main concern he has, as well as BigSky and others, is that this influx of illegals is getting out of control. So out of control, that there are many conflicting stats out there to influence people one way or the other. We can't rely on the accuracy of any of that. We can see with our own eyes what many of these illegals are doing to our economy and way of life. We don't care if the illegals benefit us in some ways. We don't want this to turn into a police state because the politicians have been ignoring this problem for way too long, much of it to do with their own personal gain.
October 18, 2008

1:14 p.m.

Suggest removal

Kukulcan writes:

@ Uno

The list of professors signed the letter stating immigration and crime are INVERSELY proportional!

Here is the link to the letter;

http://www.immigrationpolicy.org/imag...

Are you saying they are fudging the data?

I provided the latest stats from the FBI on crime, is the FBI also cooking the data?

Why don't you post the data from YOUR sources?

Now, the City of Denver is about 32% "Hispanic" according to the US Census bureau, you don't suppose then that as many as 1/3 of the criminals in Denver might be "Hispanic"?

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/stat...

How about I dig up the data on ethnic/racial breakdown from the Colorado Dept of Corrections?

@ Dynamicdave

The report by the Texas COMPTROLLER specifically states she refers to Undocumented Immigrants!

Undocumented Immigrants; Texas; A Financial Analysis of the Impact to the State Budget and Economy Carole Keeton Strayhorn; Texas Comptroller

“The absence of the estimated 1.4 million undocumented immigrants in Texas in fiscal 2005 would have been a loss to our gross state product of $17.7 billion. Undocumented immigrants produced $1.58 billion in state revenues, which exceeded the $1.16 billion in state services they received."

http://www.cpa.state.tx.us/specialrpt...

Almost $18 billion in net GAIN for Texas Dave...why should one suspect the data is different for Colorado?
October 18, 2008

1:24 p.m.

Suggest removal

Kukulcan writes:

@ BigSky182

What is the basis of your claims on the effects of undocumented immigrants on wages?

I already posted mine, academic researchers, aka PROFESSORS.

Comparative Advantages and Gains from Immigration

Chad Sparber (Colgate University)
Giovanni Peri (University of California, Davis)

http://wings.buffalo.edu/soc-sci/econ...

Growth in the Foreign-Born Workforce
and Employment of the Native Born

Rakesh Kochhar
Associate Director for Research, Pew Hispanic Center

http://pewhispanic.org/files/reports/...

The Immigration Equation is an 8,000 word article by journalist Roger Lowenstein in the July 9th New York Times Sunday Magazine on the controversy over immigration within the economics profession. It focuses on the debate between Goerge Borjas and University of California, Berkeley, Professor of Labor economics, David Card;

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/09/mag...

The Wall Street Journal Reports that Mexicans sent back $24 billion in remittances to Mexico in 2007;

http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2008/0...

The USA is a 14 TRILLION dollar economy, according to the World Bank Reference Table

http://siteresources.worldbank.org/DA...

This amounts to 1/6 of 1% of US national income!

What's more...

Mexico = USA #2 Customer

http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/s...

Mexico was also the US #2 source of imported oil in 2007

Crude Oil and Total Petroleum Imports Top 15 Countries

http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/pe...

P.S. Ahem, Europeans, including the EUROPEAN Spanish, came here illegally themselves for petes sakes...
October 18, 2008

1:26 p.m.

Suggest removal

Heidi writes:

kukulcan,

You are not getting it. You are confusing your data! It's reasonable to assume that "LEGAL" immigration and crime is inversly proportional. This is about ILLEGAL aliens. I believe it's also reasonable to assume that proportion is direct.
October 18, 2008

1:32 p.m.

Suggest removal

Kukulcan writes:

@ Heidi

Then explain why crime is DECLINING while immigration SKYROCKETS!

Furthermore, I think it's safe to assume all those PROFESSORS are right and that you are WRONG!
October 18, 2008

1:53 p.m.

Suggest removal

DahmersCookbook writes:

People are finally starting to acknowledge this BIG problem. I want to post something that is 5 feet long on the screen, but then i would feel out of place. Question: When you think of the illegal doing something good or positive what comes to mind? I bet your answer is the same as mine.
October 18, 2008

2:25 p.m.

Suggest removal

Uno writes:

Kuku, that link you provided contained no data, merely an opinion, so there is nothing to fudge.
You posted decline in crime you described as “dramatic declines in violent crime”, for examples;

SAN FRANCISCO
2006 6,533
2007 6,412

ANAHEIM

2006 1,524
2007 1,441

CHULA VISTA
2006 947
2007 921

FRESNO
2006 3,524
2007 3,044

INGLEWOOD
2006 1,051
2007 1,036

I don’t know what your definition of “dramatic decline” is, I would suspect it’s the same as not being able to comprehend what “illegal” means. Neither Denver nor the FBI (to my knowledge) publish crime rate by the offender’s hispanic origin. The FBI’s Uniform Crime Report conveniently exclude this detail, lumping hispanics together with whites, but have no problem making that distinction when it comes to being a victim of a crime. Yes, I do find it peculiar and “fudging the data” by the FBI in the name of political correctness.
Denver has 32% Hispanic population, my guess is that they are responsible for even higher crime rate, due to the unusually high hispanic surnames reported with connections to crimes, not only in Denver but also in Commerce City and other places, and until somebody can provide solid data with the relevant breakdown pertaining to this, I’ll stand by my suspicion. Prove me wrong. Denver used to publish crime rate by neighborhoods on a map, what happened to that? Opinions of professors or hispanic crusaders don’t count as data.
October 18, 2008

2:55 p.m.

Suggest removal

travel writes:

Obama for power to the people!

The fact that Obama is for little people and for the Spanish language being a national language in America proves that.

Obama is for the people, and all Latinos should be supporting and voting for him as he is for Latinos and immigrants! Viva Obama and Viva Latino heritage!
October 18, 2008

6:40 p.m.

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drakenfly writes:

How many crimes does an Illegal Alien commit?
This doesn't even cover MS-13 gang activity. Can anyone guess were MS-13 originated from?

1. Unlawfully enter our country.
2. Identity theft.
3. Social Security fraud.
4. Tax Evasion.
5. Welfare fraud.
6. Health care fraud.
7. Education exploitation and fraud.
8. Job fraud.
9. To get across the border illegally ... drug trafficking participation.
10. To get across the border illegally .... human smuggling.
11. Trespassing on private property.
12. Criminal damage to property to private property
13. Littering.
14. Marriage fraud
15. Voter fraud
16. Driving without a license.
17. Illegal purchase of property... and entering into fraudulent contracts.
18. Document fraud.
19. Identify fraud and theft.
Amnesty, of course, forgives all of these criminal offenses, and even adds new benefits.

I.C.E. www.ice.gov
Report anonymously if you like, but REPORT!
866.347.2423 24/7/365!
More government agencies worth mentioning..!
F.B.I. www.fbi.gov/homepage.htm
Border Patrol www.cbp.gov
D.E.A. www.usdoj.gov/dea/index.htm
N.S.A. www.nsa.gov/home_html.cfm
C.I.A. www.cia.gov
I.R.S. www.irs.gov
F.C.C. www.fcc.gov REPORT the Spanish Stations aiding & abetting, etc..!
October 18, 2008

6:43 p.m.

Suggest removal

drakenfly writes:

Cost of illegal immigration
copied...

1. Welfare: $11 billion to $22 billion dollars are spent on welfare to illegal aliens each year.
http://tinyurl.com/zob77

2. Food assistance: $2.2 billion dollars a year are spent on food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens.
http ://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

3. Social services: Add social services to welfare and food assistance and American taxpayers are spending $90 billion dollars a year are spent on illegal aliens.
http://premium.cnn.com/TRANSCIPTS/061...

4. Medicaid: $2.5 billion dollars a year are spent on Medicaid for illegal aliens.
http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fisc...

5. Education: $12 billion dollars a year are spent on primary and secondary school education for children here illegally and they cannot speak a word of English!
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPT...

6. Education: $17 billion dollars a year are spent for education for the American-born children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPT... /01/ldt.01.html

7. Lost wages: Americans lose $200 billion dollars a year in suppressed wages caused by illegal aliens.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPT...

8. Crime: The illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate that's two and a half times that of white non-illegal aliens. In particular, their children, are going to make a huge additional crime problem in the US
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPT...

9. Sex crime: 'The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration: Nearly One Million Sex Crimes Committed by Illegal Immigrants In The United States '.
http://www.blogger.com/Immigrants%20I...

10. Incarceration: $3 million dollars per day are spent to incarcerate illegal aliens. http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPT...

11. Incarceration: 30% percent of all federal prison inmates are illegal aliens. http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPT...

12. Border crossing: During the year of 2005 there were 4 to 10 million illegal aliens that crossed our southern border also, as many as 19,500 illegal aliens from terrorist countries. Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth, heroin and marijuana, crossed into the U. S from the southern
border. Homeland Security Report: http://tinyurl.com/t9sht

13. Deportation: The National Policy Institute, 'estimated that the total cost of mass deportation would be between $206 and $230 billion or an average cost of between $41 and $46 billion annually over a five year period.'
http://www.nationalpolicyinstitute.or...

14. Remittances: In 2006 illegal aliens sent home $45 billion in remittances back to their countries of origin.
http://www.rense.com/general75/niht.htm

The total cost is a whopping $ 338.3 BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR
October 18, 2008

7:47 p.m.

Suggest removal

Brittanicus writes:

We know that Sanctuary City and State laws violate the Federal 1986 Simpson Mazzoli Immigration anbd Control act. We know that both Mayors of San Francisco and Los Angeles indirectly murdered Jamiel Shaw and 3 members of the Bolgna family. Sanctuary city laws have slaughtered thousands of innocent Americans, because these mayors have been corrupted by campaign contributions, as many of the Governors, Mayors, Judges and elected officials of other states. If we didn't warn us about the 13 to 30 million illegal aliens we have been forced by Federal mandate to feed, hospitalise, educate and give other free welfare funds, We as citizens and legal residents would never know that we spend $1.trillion dollars a year on people who demand rights and only existence is on an ICE data base.

Read what Rep. Tom Tancredo (CO) Interview at YALE UNIVERSITY about the illegal immigrant occupation of our country: http://thepolitic.org/content/view/109/ IT WILL CHANGE YOUR MIND ABOUT THIS EVER INCREASING PLAGUE.

Some five million fraudulent home mortgages are in the hands of illegal aliens, according to the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development.

The middle class already overburdened with war appropriation funds, is still force to pay for the education, free health-care and Federal, state welfare handouts for illegal criminals and millions of illegal alien families. SIGN UP FOR THE SAVE ACT(H.R.4088) enforcement 'ONLY' law at www.numbersusa.com.

SIGN JUDICIAL WATCH, A LEGAL ORGANIZATIONS PETITION, TO RESCIND ALL 'SANCTUARY CITIES & STATES. www.sanctuarybusters.org / source. www.numbersusa.com to Petition the SAVE ACT. For immigration facts not propaganda or lies,
October 18, 2008

9:14 p.m.

Suggest removal

Charles writes:

Few of the Tancredo critics bother to respond to the FACTS cited by Tancredo in his 4-page letter to the Governor to show Denver is in fact disobeying state law. Here are a few oft them:(1) Denver lied to the state General Assembly about the number of "ICE referrals" by Denver Police and Sheriff's Department in 2007; it was only 109 not 2,088 ---an exaggeration of 2000%; (2) Denver gets federal reimbursement each year for about 1500 llegal aliens in jail, but only about 25% of them are turned over to ICE and deported; the other 75% go back into the community; (3) Denver has never informed its police force of its duty notify ICE when arresting any person where there is probable cause to believe the person is in the county illegally-- that is what both federal and state law requires and Denver ignores it.

Now, you head-in-the-sand Denver apologists can bluster and vent about racists and bigots, but maybe you should save some of that energy to deal with the FACTS.
October 18, 2008

9:42 p.m.

Suggest removal

Charles writes:

By the way Kukulcan, that Texas State Comptroller report you are so proud of was flawed from top to bottom because the study did not include ALL of the costs to taxpayers imposed by the state's undocumented aliens AND THEIR CHILDREN. It did not for example, include the K-12 school costs for over 100,000 children in Texas schools born there of illegal alien parents--- at $9,000 per year each --- that is $900 MILLION. That one cost alone wipes out all the "surplus" in the study's balance sheet. There has never been an HONEST accounting of costs and benefits by any state agency-- not in Texas, and not in Colorado.
October 20, 2008

9:12 p.m.

Suggest removal

gardog writes:

Odd how liberals think immigration law violation isn't a threat to wages to America, but sending jobs to those same immigrant countries is a threat?

Immigration to America is a great tradition. Violation of our laws by various executive branches of government is slippery slope both Dems and Repubs are pushing us down at lightening speed.

Home › News › Local News

Tancredo to guv: Denver violates immigration law

By Judi Villa, Rocky Mountain News

Published October 17, 2008 at 3:11 p.m.

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