True tolerance even tolerates Christmas

Gary Schneeberger, Focus on the Family, Colorado Springs

Published November 21, 2008 at 12:05 a.m.

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November 21, 2008

7:24 a.m.

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Acemon writes:

I try to be tolerant to all religions, but someChristians made it difficult due to their oft-stated desire to take over our country. I'll be more tolerant when people like Dobson stop trying to run my life according to his theology and dogma.
November 21, 2008

7:47 a.m.

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Michael writes:

"... but someChristians made it difficult due to their oft-stated desire to take over our country." - acemon
Please name one person or one organization with that stated goal. I do not mean a Christian or Christian organization or church that simply wants to participate in our political process - as they are allowed to do. But a Christian organization that is modeled after radical Islam - that wants to rule and control through any means possible and in the process silence all criticism and eliminate all other religions and faiths.
November 21, 2008

7:49 a.m.

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SheikYurBooty writes:

Sooo..... your Focus on Christmas is shopping-centric???
November 21, 2008

8:01 a.m.

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LetsThink writes:

I'm greatly appreciative for Focus on the Family.
They have done many great things to improve the morality of America.

Approximately 80% of Americans are Christians. We don't want the concept of Christmas to be driven out of America.

So we will encourage those retailers to keep Christmas by taking our business to them.

Do our Liberal friends find anything wrong with that???
November 21, 2008

8:25 a.m.

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Michael writes:

LT - Yes they do. The concept of economic boycott (which FotF has said this is NOT ABOUT) was invented by the left-wing in this country. Look back to the 60s and Cesar Chavez and the big call to boycott grapes because they were not being picked by union workers. RFK was involved in that very heavily. (I wonder how Cesar would feel today when the workers are not union but not even American - but that is another discussion)
As FotF has stated in the letter, this is about giving those who want the information on what retailers and companies embrace Christmas and those that do not. Do with it what you will. This is about CHOICE - something the left-wing should be very familiar with.
November 21, 2008

8:37 a.m.

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Grim_Reefer writes:

LT~

No one is driving Christmas out of America. More phoney outrage.
November 21, 2008

9:12 a.m.

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grandpaw writes:

Michael: "Look back to the 60s and Cesar Chavez and the big call to boycott grapes because they were not being picked by union workers."

Michael is dead wrong once again. Chavez protested because the workers were being paid pitiful wages and worked under pitiful conditions. Michael seems to forget that unions are made up of human beings, not work animals.

To honor the contributions of Chavez to the cause of fairness and justice, and to celebrate his life and his untiring work in behalf of the poor and disadvantaged, Arizona, California, Colorado, Michigan, New Mexico, Texas, Utah, Wisconsin) and dozens of cities and counties have declared his birthday to be an official holiday.

In 1994 he was posthumously awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom, the highest civilian award.

There are many schools and streets named to honor his legacy.

Cesar Chavez was born on March 31, 1927, in Yuma, Arizona, to a poor Mexican American family.

The Chavez family was evicted from its land after losing their livelihood in the Great Depression. They become migrant farm workers in Arizona and California.

Chavez quit grammar school to work full-time in the fields.

Chavez enlisted in the Navy, where he served for two years in the Pacific.

Chavez works as a ranch hand and at a lumber yard in San Jose, Calif.

Chavez later worked as, what else?, a community organizer in the Mexican American community, spearheading voter registration drives and fighting racial and economic discrimination.

Chavez founded the National Farm Workers Association (NFWA), an organization dedicated to the rights of migrant workers, including a minimum wage, insurance, and collective bargaining.

The NFWA, primarily made up of Mexican Americans, joins the Agricultural Workers Organizing Committee (AWOC), primarily made up of Filipino Americans, who had begun striking against grape growers. It is the beginning of the five-year grape strike, which received much national attention. Chavez advocated strikes, picketing, boycotts, marches, and other non-violent means to achieve the union's aims, modeling his movement on Gandhian philosophy. Dorothy Day of the Catholic Workers Movement and Martin Luther King's philosophy on civil disobedience were also inspirations.

The strikers marched 250 miles from Delano to Sacramento, California's capital, to present a list of their demands. Several grape companies agree to sign a contract with the union. These were the first contracts for American farm workers.
November 21, 2008

9:13 a.m.

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grandpaw writes:

Chavez led a national boycott of California table grape growers, which became known as "La Causa." By the end of the boycott in 1970, 17 million Americans supported it, including many political and civil rights leaders. Robert Kennedy was a particularly strong supporter.

Chavez went on a 25-day hunger strike, which attracts enormous national attention. The fast reaffirmed his movement's belief in non-violence.

The union signed a contract with most California table grape growers, ending the strike. Chavez organized a nationwide lettuce boycott.

Chavez undertook another 24-day fast.

The union organized a lettuce growers strike.

The California Labor Relations Act went into effect, allowing farm workers the right to boycott and to collective bargaining.

Chavez undertook a 36-day "Fast for Life" to call attention to the health hazards farm workers and their children face by exposure to pesticides.

Chavez died on April 23, 1993.
November 21, 2008

9:41 a.m.

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IronmanCarmichael writes:

And Linus accuses Charlie Brown of having the singular ability to "take a wonderful season like Christmas and turn it into a problem."

What the "Christmas activists" should do is have the courage of their convictions and stop shopping altogether. Explain to their children that they're not getting any presents because that's not "the reason for the season." (More parking spaces at the mall for the rest of us!) Forbid them to watch television programs or videos involving Rudolph or Frosty or The Grinch or Santa Claus. Eschew every ornament, decoration, or symbol that does not have direct bearing on the story of Jesus' birth: no wreath, no tree, no holly, no mistletoe, no jingle bells, not even a crummy candy cane. Spend Christmas Eve and Christmas Day in church. Who's stopping them?

But no, they cop out by blathering about "choice," conveniently ignoring the fact that crass commerce is necessarily pagan territory (which I thought spirituality was supposed to elevate you above). Just the same, nobody's stopping them from patronizing stores which patronize them right back by pandering to their beliefs. It's just sad that they kid themselves into believing that's a validation of their religious faith when it's really just about $$$.

Actually, it would be hilarious to give the Christians what they want: "Jesus saves...at Wal-Mart!" Have the store employees dress as their favorite Nativity character, and when they "roll back" the prices, everybody shouts "Lo! It's a miracle!" and a Muzak version of the Hallelujah Chorus is played. The Home Furnishings department becomes the Manger Supply Depot.
November 21, 2008

9:55 a.m.

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grandpaw writes:

Of course, this thread was not supposed to be about Cesar Chavez, but an effort to belittle someone like him should not so unanswered, and it presents an opportunity to learn something about why he is such a hero to most thinking Americans, just as Martin Luther King was.

But in an effort to make Chavez more relevant to a discussion of Christmas, here is his Christmas letter:

"Christmas Appeal Letter from Cesar Chavez 1965
Christmastime –Delano

With the demands of the strike, it has been almost impossible individually to thank or adequately express my own gratitude, or the gratitude of all the strikers — toward the good people who have done so much and continue to do so much to help us in our battle. We are celebrating together holidays of what some men would call the impossible: holidays of Channuka [a different spelling of Hannukah], of a light that burned for eighty days when there was oil found for only one, and Christmas, of the birth of the Son of God among men — and we, too, are involved in what people have called the impossible: the organization of a strong union of farm workers, to fight for and uphold human dignity and human rights. And as these holidays are a kindling and a rebirth of the spirit and faith of men, I pray this New Year is for you also a kindling and a rebirth, a continuance and growth in our fellowship together as we join hands, wherever we are, in the work we all share.

May God grant you good health in the coming year, that you may continue to be with us as you are able; and may He grant all of us here the strength to carry on our battle and to be worthy of Him, and of you, who have so generously placed your faith in us.

God bless you,
Sincerely,
Cesar E. Chavez, Director
VIVA LA CAUSA
VIVA LA HUELGA
National Farm
November 21, 2008

10:05 a.m.

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leftside writes:

Michael, I've appreciated reading your posts over the past couple of weeks since elections end. You have shown sportsmanship and willingness to support Obama until which time he proves you can't.

However, to think that it is not the goal of the Christian Coalition to take over this country and convert all to their belief system, if not by force certainly through the rule of law, is lacking in historical fact.

A good example and one I have used in here is Iran. Iran was on the fast track to becoming a progressive 20th century country in the middle east until the religious fanatics regained control over that government and reverted back to the dark ages. Allah forbids this.

This country is heavily Christian, however, the vast majority of those Christians are not fanatical about it and are tolerant of peoples rights to believe how they choose or to not believe at all, their choice. Let's keep it that way.
November 21, 2008

10:07 a.m.

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TimeLord writes:

"We don't want the concept of Christmas to be driven out of America."

Drivel and fear mongering.

If there's a war on Christmas, show me some casualties.
November 21, 2008

10:08 a.m.

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Acemon writes:

Michael,

James Dobson, Jerry Falwell, Robert Schuler and Pat Robertson have all called for religious-based laws to be enacted on the state and federal level. They clearly want everybody to follow their beliefs. If they were successful, do you honestly believe they would stop there?

You wrote "Any... modeled after radical Islam - that wants to rule and control through any means possible and in the process silence all criticism and eliminate all other religions and faiths."

Libertarian candidate Bob Barr tried to use his Senate position to outlaw any religions other than Christians and Jews from American military bases. That made it clear that pagans, muslims and earth mother religions were not welcome.

Yesterday a little tract was left on my door by extremist Christians. Part of the tract explained how people who followed other Christ-based religions, such as Baptists, Mormon, Catholics and Jehovah's Witness were all doomed to hell.

The actions and attitudes speak for themselves.
November 21, 2008

10:15 a.m.

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Michael writes:

grandpaw - I see you are fan of Cesar Chavez - as am I. That is why I used him and the boycott as a classic example of a tactic so perfected by leftists and liberals. The reasons for the boycott are inconsequential to this argument. I referenced it to connect economic boycotts with the left-wing in America. You did a better and more thorough job than I did. Thanks.
BTW - How did Cesar Chavez feel about illegal immigrants? How did he feel about how they drove down the value of his unionized workforce? Chavez understood economics as well as social issues and the human condition. He knew that an unending supply of cheap, illegal labor drove down the wages and value of his union laborers. Why doesn't the left-wing in America today also embrace that Chavez belief (and economic fact) when they call for open borders?
November 21, 2008

10:42 a.m.

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Michael writes:

leftside (thanks for the compliment) and Acemon: I truly do not understand your apparent fear and belief that radical Christians want to excusively rule America and subject 300 million people to their beliefs ONLY. The examples you cite are fringe and hardly mainstream. leftside, you even admit that the "vast majority" of Christians (like me) are tolerant and not fanatical. That is why we have such a great country (IMO) - because of a vast majority of incredibly tolerant Christians, for the most part. The comparison with Iran is a BIG stretch. Radical Islam has no modern counterpart in any mainstream Christian faith - NONE. You would have to go back 100s of years to find that type of fundamentalism and intolerance in Christianity practiced and sanctioned by the state or over masses of people.
You cannot ever extricate Christian beliefs and ideals from the people who drive the lawmaking process in America. They will always be present. What I hear so often (I could be wrong) is that secularists and atheists want NOTHING associated with Christian beliefs anywhere near our government or in our laws. That is impossible. Cannot be done. The laws of Christianity and Judaism (primarily) and even other faiths are woven into the fabric of America and have been for 232 years. Above the dais where the 9 justices of the USSC sit is a frieze. On that frieze is a depiction of Moses and The 10 Commandments. There are other depictions as well but that one is most prononunced. Judeo-Christian law and beliefs are part (not all) of the bedrock of this nation and they will continue to be so and we have Constitutional laws and safeguards from preventing this nation from ever becoming a theocracy.
November 21, 2008

11:09 a.m.

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grandpaw writes:

If you are a fan of Cesar Chavez, then you know that he was after improving the condition of the workers, not the unions. He used unionization as a means, not an end.

"Why doesn't the left-wing in America today also embrace that Chavez belief (and economic fact) when they call for open borders?"

Open borders? No border guards, the road between Mexico and the United States the same as the one between Colorado and New Mexico?

Of course, no one calls for that. It's the same canard, that is, deliberately misleading fabrication, as the frequent use of the socialism allegation. Who are the liberals who think that we should not just continue to allow illegal immigrants to come across bu who think that any impediments to their coming across should be eliminated? Of course there aren't any.

Obama: "I will make sure that the federal government does what it’s supposed to do...a better job of closing our borders and preventing hundreds of thousands of people to pour in."

The debate is not about open borders vs. controlled borders. It is about the kind of control. The debate about what to do about the illegal immigrants already here is not about open borders, it is about what to do about the illegal immigrants already here.
November 21, 2008

11:23 a.m.

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leftside writes:

Michael,

"I truly do not understand your apparent fear and belief that radical Christians want to excusively rule America and subject 300 million people to their beliefs ONLY."

That fear actually started during the Reagan era when the Christian Coalition came on strong and appeared to have his ear and certainly the GOP's ear because of their voting base.

The prolife movement came on strong, coincidentally or not, at that time as well. Moving the box even farther to the right and leaving many of us moderates farther to the left and deeper seeded in the Democratic party. I had actually voted for Reagan in his first term because the Democrats had failed with the economy in Carters term but voted Democrat against Reagan's second term in part because the GOP was heavily pandering to the religious right.

For now your correct that it would take a far greater number of radical Christians than present. However, do you realize how close we were to getting a huge conservative majority in the Supreme Court had McCain won? That's truly what the "coalition" was hoping for and what I was voting against.

Thus, the cause of my fear. There a circumstances that can prevail that wouldn't require a majority and there in lies the danger.
November 21, 2008

12:57 p.m.

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Acemon writes:

Michael,

How can you refer to Dobson, Falwell and Robertson as "fringe and hardly mainstream" when their followers (combined) number in the millions? Can you name any religious group larger than that? There are even more people, such as our resident troll LetsThink, who believe those groups don't go far enough.

Extreme or not, those people are voting citizens who vote the way they're told. These are the same people who wanted personhood defined as when a woman's eggs were fertilized. Why do you think taxes on cigarettes and alcohol are referred to as sin taxes? Who do you think started the ban on Sunday sales of alcohol and who fought the hardest to keep the ban from beaing repealed?

As leftside pointed out, Ron and Nancy Reagan were big supporters of the so-called "silent majority," who in turn expected religious based laws in return for their votes.

I am very, very tolerant of anyone's beliefs and lifestyles, but when those people try to impose their beliefs on me is when I start fighting back. We're in the midst of a cultural war as midstream citizens fight against the extremists who have imposed their version of morality on everyone else.

To many, I'm a sinner doomed to Hell. By contrast, I think I'm one of the free.
November 21, 2008

2:32 p.m.

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Michael writes:

"Can you name any religious group larger than that?" - Acemon
Several. But I will pick one. With 76.9 million residents professing the faith in 2003 (5 YEARS AGO - with all the new illegal Mexicans that must be well over 80 million by now), the United States has the third largest Catholic population in the world after Brazil and Mexico. The next largest Christian denomination, the Southern Baptist Convention, reported only 16,306,246.
As you can see, there are much larger groups of Christians than the TV preachers have and Dobson and FotF is not even a denomination and he is not even a minister or priest as far as I know. By all definitions they are fringe groups, they are just loud and occassionally obnoxious so they get more press.
Your statement - "...those people are voting citizens who vote the way they're told." seems very simplistic and naive. To assume any bloc of voters all go the same way is absurd. Even Catholics went for Obama over McCain with the threat of Rome and the Pope and some American Bishops hanging out there because of abortion, stem cell research, gay marriage, birth control and other dogmas of the Catholic Church.
I like your reference to "sin taxes". It shows that Christian beliefs have been around in this country for a long time, and in the past they were much more mainstream and part of everyday laws. The country is much more permissive and liberal now, and I am glad to an extent. I do not think you or anyone has anything to fear from fringe Christian groups and their followers and certainly not from a theocracy.
November 21, 2008

4:01 p.m.

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AngelontheSidelines writes:

Gary,"After all, true tolerance is about recognizing that some things, like Christmas, are of vital importance to many people - rather than blithely ignoring what is being celebrated on Dec. 25."

I'll tolerate Christians bastardization of the pagan holiday, if hardline Christians tolerate a Happy Holidays sign.

Saturnalia, and other Pagan Man-God myths all share a history of their savior, born Dec 25th, of a virgin, three magi, 12 disciples, miracles, and even death by crucifixion. These stories all predate the Jewish Christ by hundreds of years.

Face it Christmas is a pagan celebration originally done to welcome the sun back into it's yearly cycle. The Roman Catholic Empire simply could not abolish these pagan remnants and adopted them into Christian myth.

It is funny how faithful Christians blithely ignore the origins of the celebration of the new year.
November 21, 2008

5:47 p.m.

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grandpaw writes:

Gee, I had no idea we were bastardizing anything when the family got together back in the old days to sing Christmas carols, go together to midnight Mass, and argue way too early the next morning about whether to open presents or eat breakfast first, with the kids, of course, winning the argument. I truly thought we were just having a good old fashioned family Christmas, sharing our love for one another.

I don't know which radical extremists are worse, those on the right or those on the left.

I hope I don't go to wherever bad pagans go because I have a soft spot in my heart for Christmas.

Hateful Holiday and Christmas to everyone. What a wonderfully hateful time of the year. Don't forget to scowl at your neighbor. Scrooge would be proud.
November 21, 2008

6:45 p.m.

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jay writes:

whatever keeps the sheep angry, hateful and voting the "right" way
November 21, 2008

7:04 p.m.

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IronmanCarmichael writes:

I don't intend to let so-called Christians spoil my Christmas, grandpaw, and neither should you. Let Michael and Larry (and Donner and Blitzen) sulk away the season like spoiled children who have been told not to expect every toy on their five-page wish list to Santa because not everybody observes the holiday--oops! I said the H word; sticks and charcoal in my stocking!--the way they want them to.
November 21, 2008

7:45 p.m.

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LetsThink writes:

Something to think about;

The Bible and prayer have been removed from public school....after being in our schools for more than a hundred years.

That alone is some pretty solid evidence that secularists are trying to take over America, and drive out God.

But I wonder if the liberals will admit that.
hmmmmmmm
November 21, 2008

8:37 p.m.

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grandpaw writes:

It's sort of like the bible and prayer in schools began to disappear about the same time as Jim Crow laws. Hmmmmm.
November 21, 2008

8:41 p.m.

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Sweetpickle writes:

All children should clearly be forced to pray to the god LT believes in, in an approved way.
November 21, 2008

11:28 p.m.

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peterpi writes:

FOF is expecting people who use its "naughty and nice" list to not shop at "Christmas-intolerant" businesses. That is called a boycott.
They are "Christmas intolerant" because they dare to use that horrid phrase "Happy Holidays". They are "Christmas intolerant" because they dare to recognize there are other holidays besides Christmas this time of year.
I like Christians, I'm intolerant of "my way or the highway" types like LT and FOF.
November 22, 2008

4:53 a.m.

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Hazardous_T writes:

"...should we just stick to the Sermon on the Mount - a passage that is so radical that it's doubtful that our own Defense Department would survive its application?" Barack Obama

"The teaching of mercy and love of one's neighbor is foreign to the German race and the Sermon on the Mount is according to Nordic sentiment an ethic for cowards and idiots."-- Hans Hauptmann,

"The National Reich Church of Germany categorically claims the exclusive right and the exclusive power to control all churches within the borders of the Reich: it declares these to be national churches of the German Reich.

"The National Church is determined to exterminate irrevocably...the strange and foreign Christian faiths imported into Germany in the ill-omened year 800...

"The National Church has no scribes, pastors, chaplains or priests, but National Reich orators are to speak in them.

"The National Church demands immediate cessation of the publishing and dissemination of the Bible in Germany...'"

"On the altars there must be nothing but 'Mein Kampf' (to the German nation and therefore to God the most sacred book) and to the left of the altar a sword.

"On the day of its foundation, the Christian Cross must be removed from all churches, cathedrals and chapels...and it must be superseded by the only unconquerable symbol, the swastika." Alfred Rosenberg

As you can see anti-Christian sentiment is common from the left...
November 22, 2008

7:37 a.m.

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leftside writes:

No HT, I can't see it.

Here's your problem, and trust me it is a problem that requires professional help, people like you take passages out of context, paste them to out of context remarks of whoever it is your defaming and slandering this week and because it's "you" who is doing it, saying it or typing it, expect everyone to believe these half baked lies.

This is the same type of garbage Limbaugh and his ilk use to brainwash fools like you. However, they themselves aren't fools because they make excellent money off the people like you.
November 22, 2008

8:03 a.m.

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grandpaw writes:

President-elect Obama made the comment quoted by Haz during the speech he gave at the Sojouner magazine's Call to Renewal in June of 2006.

Here is that comment in context:

"Moreover, given the increasing diversity of America's population, the dangers of sectarianism have never been greater. Whatever we once were, we are no longer just a Christian nation; we are also a Jewish nation, a Muslim nation, a Buddhist nation, a Hindu nation, and a nation of nonbelievers.

"And even if we did have only Christians in our midst, if we expelled every non-Christian from the United States of America, whose Christianity would we teach in the schools? Would we go with James Dobson's, or Al Sharpton's? Which passages of Scripture should guide our public policy? Should we go with Leviticus, which suggests slavery is ok and that eating shellfish is abomination? How about Deuteronomy, which suggests stoning your child if he strays from the faith? Or should we just stick to the Sermon on the Mount - a passage that is so radical that it's doubtful that our own Defense Department would survive its application? So before we get carried away, let's read our bibles. Folks haven't been reading their bibles."
November 22, 2008

8:05 a.m.

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grandpaw writes:

Henceforth, in accordance with the Sermon on the Mount, the following shall be law:

If you look at a pretty girl, and feel sexually aroused, you have committed adultery.

If you mast*rbate with your hand, you must use your other hand to cut it off. No, don’t cut that off, just your hand.

When you get married, if you divorce your wife, you have committed adultery, unless, of course, she has theretofore committed adultery.

If you should marry a woman who has been divorced, you have committed adultery.

If you are walking alone at night through the forest and an evil man comes upon you to kill you, you must not resist him.

If someone knocks you down, immediately get up so that he can knock you down again.

If anyone want to sue you and take away your home, give him not only your home but your car as well.

If anyone should ask you for your wife, give her to him.

If he should just want to borrow your wife for the night, let him.

Do not harm Iran, or the Taliban, or the insurgents; instead, love them and do something nice for them.

Do not go to church to pray. Instead, go to your room, shut the door, and pray, hoping no one will get wind of what you are doing.

And when you pray, for God's sakes don't repeat yourself. Say the Our Father just once.

When you fast, have a happy smile on your face and don't tell anyone what you are doing.

Do not do as Let'sThink does and go around judging people.

Most of all, do not become a capitalist.
November 22, 2008

9:35 a.m.

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blu_boi writes:

Christians should be at Christ's Mass not messing with the pagan's winterfest (winter solstice) traditions!
November 22, 2008

10:30 a.m.

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Acemon writes:

Michael,

Yes, Catholics outnumber Christians but I don't recall the Catholics lobbying for religious-centric laws. In fact, I haven't heard any other religious groups, such as Jews or Muslims, trying to force people to follow their beliefs in the public realm.

As far as people voting per their leaders' instructions, politicians such as McCain and Reagan courted those groups heavily because they knew Christians voted in blocks. Leaders like Dobson lecture their flock and make it quite clear that supporting liberal candidates make the "right" choice.

Christians and Christian dogma have dominated this country long enough. Citizens are fighting for their freedom from so-called moral laws which affect many, many people. I'm one of the fighters. I'm tired of my quiet, private life being demonized because I don't follow an ancient book.
November 22, 2008

11:31 a.m.

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peterpi writes:

George Will (or was it Mike Rosen?) once said whoever first mentions Hitler or the Nazis in a debate loses. Hazardous T you just lost. Nice touch, trying to tie Obama's statement (which has a totally different meaning from what you try to read into it) and liberals in with Nazis.
November 22, 2008

6:35 p.m.

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Michael writes:

Acemon - Catholics ARE Christians. Are you not aware of that? Are you not aware that Christianity spans over 1 billion people worldwide and is comprised of many denominations? Do you even know what the primary rule is for being a Christian? Your statement makes me wonder how shallow your grasp of this faith really is. And yes there are politically active Muslims and Catholics and almost every religion to some degree. Though I am not aware of any politically active Jews in the USA - that are not secular.
As Christians comprise about 85% of the US population it makes sense that the beliefs and morals of that large a group are going to be reflected in the society and the laws that govern it. I am sorry you feel you are being "demonized" but I would like to know how that is happening - other than the occassional radical fringe element which we have to tolerate due to the 1st Amendment. As leftside so accurately said, "This country is heavily Christian, however, the vast majority of those Christians are not fanatical about it and are tolerant of peoples rights to believe how they choose or to not believe at all." I tend to agree with him/her and I think most people do as well.
November 23, 2008

11:05 a.m.

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davis_x_machina writes:

Hazardous:when are you and yours going to realize that the fascists, Nazis or otherwise, are a phenomenon of the extreme right? The "socialist" in their official party title was of the same nature as the "compassionate" in W's "compassionate conservatism" a marketing term and little else.Still the Fuhrer himself in Mein Kampf declared,"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord." Religion, of all sorts, being little more than organs for the control of society by monopolizing access to the source of all power- whatever that happens to be for that particular form of the thing- are prone to exploitation by those seeking to use that power to enhance their own.Dobson is no different.
November 23, 2008

4:38 p.m.

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peterpi writes:

davis_x_machina, people on the right have a hard time realizing their side can make mistakes or be cruel or evil. Any time anything goes wrong, it must be the fault of liberals. Hence their ludicrous efforts to portray fascism as leftist. Next, they'll state there are nor rightist or conservative totalitarian rulers, those are all liberal too.
November 24, 2008

5:51 a.m.

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diggtbks writes:

The only "tolerance" the left preaches is for all in America to tolerate their views only. No other views are acceptable.

I say Focus on the Family is doing a good service to Christians. If it bothers you, who cares.
November 24, 2008

11:30 a.m.

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rg writes:

I am a happy camper in my illusion. I wrote a song: "♫I believe in Santa Claus the guy with the long white beard; ♫I believe in sleigh and reindeer bringing joy and cheer...." Then I describe your delusion, the begotten (son to be glad about) of a single parent, the Hebrew monster that came to earth posturing as his son to correct his stupidity in the Garden of Eden demanding humans kill him so he can save them, Jews first then Gentiles, in terms of fear, hate, eternal penitentiary, a lake of fire, such a stupid concept. Richard Grimes: Deicide

Deicide Corner: Pope and his saints claim Marriage is not for a man and woman. Marriage is unholy. Send for History of Marriage: http://www.geocities.com/r22037/think...
November 24, 2008

1:02 p.m.

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Acemon writes:

Michael,

Who has the shallow grasp? Some Christian goups consider Catholics to be blasphemers due to their worshop of the Pope. I state this with some conviction due to the Christian-centric pamphlet left on my door last week. They used cute little cartoons to explain how people who didn't follow their interpretation of the Bible would be going to Hell. On the back were different messages to those of "other" Christian faiths, explaining how different groups, such as Catholics, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, Christian Scientists and Muslims were all doomed for various infractions.

As far as demonizing goes, listen to any sermon and see how they view atheists: either someone who doesn't know better (and needs immediate ministering), or the spawn of the devil. Look at the various laws Christians try to impose in order to make other people (the unenlightened herd) follow their moral codes. They don't want sales of alcohol on Sundays and many don't want any sales of any kind on their Sabbath. Anyone who disagrees with their dogma is branded a heretic.

Only Christians try on a regular basis to change laws to their favor. Jews lobby for aid to Israel and Muslims lobby for equal treatment. Please show any other group who comes near to Christians and their non-stop attempts to change the laws. I don't consider a nationwide attack on the Consitution as a "radical fringe," especially when they work in concert.
November 24, 2008

4:01 p.m.

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timothyc writes:

I couldn't care less if someone wishes me "Merry Christmas, "Happy Holidays" or a simple "Have a great holiday," or none of the above. I'll shop where I want to shop regardless. I don't pay a bit of attention to hypocritcal organizations like FOTF, and don't think anyone else should, either. I can make my own decisions on where to shop, thank you. I don't need James Dobson what I can and cannot do.
November 25, 2008

12:11 a.m.

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DJ writes:

I’m a single mom who waits tables to keep a roof over my son’s head. Every single dollar from every table I wait puts food in my son’s mouth. I’m simply not willing to take the chance to anger someone by uttering the wrong greeting. During the next month, I’m going to rely on my old standard, “I hope your day is wonderful!” with a big warm smile on my face and a twinkle in my eye.
November 25, 2008

6:17 a.m.

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grandpaw writes:

And, DJ, if you'll call us old men sweetheart that warms up the wallet a little. I hope that you and your son have a warm and loving Christmas. Maybe one day we'll have a society in which people like you count as full human beings just like the rich do.

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Home › Opinion › Letters to the Editor

True tolerance even tolerates Christmas

Gary Schneeberger, Focus on the Family, Colorado Springs

Published November 21, 2008 at 12:05 a.m.

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