Catholic leader says U.S. faces time of trial
By Jean Torkelson, Rocky Mountain News (Contact)
Published November 21, 2008 at 12:05 a.m.
J. Francis Stafford, former archbishop of Denver, told a university audience in Washington, D.C., last week that the election of Barack Obama has ushered in a time of trial for America.
Stafford described the president-elect as "aggressive, disruptive and apocalyptic" in remarks quoted by the Catholic News Agency on Monday.
Stafford, now a cardinal based in Rome, made the statements during a lecture at Catholic University of America. He left his Denver position in 1996 when Pope John Paul II named him to the first of two high Vatican positions.
Stafford said that America's time of trial will stem from Obama's "extremist anti-life platform," including his support for Roe vs. Wade, which legalized abortion.
Stafford is one of a number of prominent Catholic clerics, including Denver Archbishop Charles Chaput, who have voiced a variety of criticisms of Obama.
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November 21, 2008
5:10 a.m.
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Fretloop writes:
Everything about Obamas' plan for our nation is built on rhetoric &
telling the people what they want to hear. Will it take marshall law to control the angry masses once they realize how hungry their families have become and that they have not elected a leader but in fact a novice lawer who has no backbone for making a stand on any issue? (see voting record) A man so calculated and concerned not for others, but for mantaining his agenda?
The Chicago machine is alive and well and has duped a little over 50% of our population. Sadly 100% of us will feel the effects.
As for the abortion issue, it's all we Christians need for casting our vote. The only issue. A nation cannot murder it's own children and find blessing. God help us all.
November 21, 2008
5:46 a.m.
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Openminded1 writes:
All heck,,, the Catholic church is getting into this. Maybe it is the sign of the times....
November 21, 2008
6:14 a.m.
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impala writes:
A country will get the leader it deserves, and I am a little worried!! America is abusing it's freedom, and losing it's respect for life!!
November 21, 2008
6:17 a.m.
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impala writes:
Oh yea impala is Micah Kintzley!!
November 21, 2008
6:22 a.m.
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spanisheddie writes:
fretloop you are a crazy religious zealot. we are lucky that you sheep did not yet again rig the general election. the catholic church is "well over 50%" more corrupt than the "chicago machine" could ever hope to be, and the fact that they are so fearful of Obama only reiterates the fact that he's the right guy.
November 21, 2008
6:41 a.m.
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kmeissner writes:
Oh yeah i forgot that the Catholic Church is so great! How many kids have they assaulted again?
November 21, 2008
6:43 a.m.
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moreno2009 writes:
When Catholics start paying taxes their opinion should matter, why they have never been required to register as sex offenders is beyond me. Celibacy for any human is an unnatural act and any catholic priest practicing this should be monitored by the state.
November 21, 2008
7:41 a.m.
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sroberts writes:
When I was a kid, I didn't have to worry about the Priests, I was on the track team!!!
November 21, 2008
7:54 a.m.
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wilca666 writes:
The headline "Catholic Leader" is a bit off, I think. I seriously doubt that Stafford is leading any of the Catholics that I know--they seem to feel the church in Rome is not reflecting their views on many issues. He's basically a relic from a bygone era--the 70s. In many organizations, a bad apple sometimes makes it to the top, and Cardinal Stafford is just one of those. More than anything else, Stafford's comments are probably just embarrassing to most Catholics.
November 21, 2008
8:51 a.m.
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robert29b writes:
The catholic church is responsible for millions of deaths (think of the crusades and ignoring the extermination of the jews during WWII). Isn't it funny how human life is so sacred to the church only when it suits them? Think about it......
November 21, 2008
9:21 a.m.
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myrtlemay writes:
Stafford is a relic from another time, yes, but not the 70's. I was involved with the church then and the Catholic church in the 70's was much, much more liberal than it is today. Stafford and Chaput, along with most of the rest of the church hierarchy have taken the church backward in time.
In the words of one Catholic priest whom I had the priviledge of knowing well: "The Catholic church has hurt people so badly that they would be wrong not to leave."
Unfortunately, that is the choice many of us have made. Though, truly, it feels more like it is the church that has left us. I don't recognize it anymore.
We have elected a president. Mr. Obama deserves our support, not the bizarre accusations that have been thrown at him. The official church would be good to remember that when Kennedy was elected president, there were also many bizarre accusations made - chiefly that Kennedy would allow the Vatican to take control of our country!! Thank God that was just as bogus as the claims against Mr. Obama!
November 21, 2008
9:42 a.m.
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NotUrFriend writes:
kmessianer,
Kids they assualted? You mean the one's that are being paid the ten's of millions for past errors and mistakes? For past injustices? At least there is justice coming forward, as terrible as these crimes have been, there is closure moving in. The Public did not tolerate these crimes, and it should never tolerate these crimes. America's better than that.
Why aren't you crying out when 80 year old Muslim men are marrying 6 year old children here in the country. No public outcry there? The Mormon's did that, and they got the tough stick of the law. It should never, under any culture, religion, or idealogical belief, be toloerate in this country. NEVER. Good for you for for at least taking a stand somewhere.....And willfully choosing to ignore worse crimes occuring. But at least your taking a stand.
Very rightous! *sarcasm*
I.
November 21, 2008
9:45 a.m.
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psychoChicken writes:
The use of the word "apocalyptic" as I read it means that the Rapture is upon us. I guess I had better hunker down and wait for the final judgment. What to wear?
November 21, 2008
9:50 a.m.
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NotUrFriend writes:
Robert,
Study your history better, the cruisades were a counter offensive that sprang forward from the continual harrassment originating from the Muslim lands. The Eastern Roman Empire requested help from the Vatican and the Pope complied, as it was needed to offset the monsteriousily blood thirsty nature of the growing Islamic empire for additional slaves, lands, and riches.
So let's jump off the cruisades, which lasted a few centuries, and focus on the never ending Jihadi war of eternity instead? After all, how many hundreds of millions have perished at their hands? Oh wait, shouldn't matter.....They aren't those monsterious Christian nations that gave the world science, modern knowledge, equility of the law among the sexes and creeds, that surrendered their lives to protect liberty and freedoms.
Your right, what on earth was I thinking?
I.
PS, Christians account (including catholics) for the largest, BY FAR, group in the western nations and western world. So let's not say Christians are all that bad now!
November 21, 2008
9:56 a.m.
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hogarm writes:
What kind of an idiot would say that?
Oh…
The same kind of an idiot who believes the Apocalypse will happen in real life.
The same kind of an idiot who believes in a netherworld populated with angels and devils and eternal damnation.
The same kind of an idiot who believes in talking snakes.
The same kind of an idiot who believes the voice he hears inside of his head is God talking to only him.
Consider the source.
November 21, 2008
10:34 a.m.
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robert29b writes:
Notrfriend:
The medieval "Crusade" was a holy war. For a conflict to be officially considered a Crusade, it had to be sanctioned by the pope and conducted against groups seen as enemies of Christendom.
Initially, only those expeditions to the Holy Land (Jerusalem and associated territory) were considered Crusades. More recently, historians have also recognized campaigns against heretics, pagans and Muslims in Europe as Crusades.
For centuries, Jerusalem had been governed by Muslims, but they tolerated Christian pilgrims because they helped the economy. Then, in the 1070s, Turks (who were also Muslim) conquered these holy lands and mistreated Christians before realizing how useful their good will (and money) could be. The Turks also threatened the Byzantine Empire. Emperor Alexius asked the pope for assistance, and Urban II, seeing a way to harness the violent energy of Christian knights, made a speech calling for them to take back Jerusalem. Thousands responded, resulting in the First Crusade
November 21, 2008
10:47 a.m.
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robert29b writes:
Also, we are not talking about Muslim Jihads but rather Catholic Church Doctrines and policies. Stick to the story at hand.
November 21, 2008
11:06 a.m.
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NotUrFriend writes:
Robert,
The story 'at hand' you skipped entirely when you 'brought up the assualt on children' and I took that issue to heart. In this country we don't tolerate child marriage (rape) child slave labor nor the selling of children openly to repay family debt. We also don't bury our children and stone them to death for some 'offense' to family (male only!) honer. Sorry, you skipped the story at hand entirely. This was about a high ranknig Catholic leader not supporting Obama...How very 'racist' of him! right?
Now, the Turks (who were muslim, just like the Moors that were invading Europe at the time through France) were never 'tolerant' by any means to anything Christian or non Islamic based. Ever wonder why even in a 'modern' Turkey you need Presidential (backed by enormous military power) consent just to repair a church in that country? Yes, your right, absolutely TOLERANT!!!
Your a genuis ;) ! *being sarcastic again, sorry*
As for the "helped the economy'' wording....You obviousily know absolutely nothing of the status of Dhimmis in Muslim lands. Let's see...Can't practice religion openly...Can't do missionary work....Can't build new or repair old, faltering places of worship....um...oh yeah! Duh!!!
The Jizya! That's what you meant right? THE JIZYA!!!!!!!!!!!!
The required payment of 'people of the book' as 'protection' money to the Muslim overlords! The one that accounts for "3/4 of they're land, riches, and blood" that must be paid once a year in a humiliating fashion in the open to show how 'superior' they are over the weak pathetic Christians!
Oh! How silly of me to forget that ;) Your right, they certainly did reap massive economics off that! How very silly of me ;)
I.
November 21, 2008
11:11 a.m.
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NotUrFriend writes:
Oh...And I'm sure they sincerely cared about 'good will' of Christians. Why else would they rob the family of their sons and raise them Muslim? Or take their daughters? Or behead they're fathers? Or force them into poverty? Or Take their lands whenever they desired?
Everyone smiles at the nice big guy holding the gun! ;)
But hey, no hard feelings. You might of killed my father, raped my mother, and stolen my sister for your concubine...but I still love ya ;)
I.
*let's stick to the story at hand here instead, k Robert?*
November 21, 2008
5:01 p.m.
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cynical_one writes:
myrtlemay writes:
"Stafford is a relic from another time, yes, but not the 70's. I was involved with the church then and the Catholic church in the 70's was much, much more liberal than it is today. "
Closer to the 1870's, I think. The reality is that the Catholic Church, like religion as a whole, is becoming more irrelevant. People are evolving away from the need to have faith in others and realizing that the best way to live is to have faith in themselves and the people that they choose to surround themselves with.
So, to deal with that, religion is becoming more of a "squeaky wheel" and less a viable choice for people looking for spirituality.
November 21, 2008
5:05 p.m.
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NoMoe writes:
Wow, all the hate and ridiculous comments here.
The more I read about the gay agenda, Obama kid killing agenda, and destroy the Constitution agenda, I am honored to be on the opposite side.
Honor us more...we ARE LAUGHING at you.
November 21, 2008
5:08 p.m.
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cynical_one writes:
NoMoe writes:
First you say:
"Wow, all the hate and ridiculous comments here."
And then you write:
"The more I read about the gay agenda, Obama kid killing agenda, and destroy the Constitution agenda, I am honored to be on the opposite side."
Talk about spewing hate. You are a freaking hypocrite.
November 21, 2008
6:22 p.m.
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NoMoe writes:
Hey cynical_one! What hate? People who try to destroy the Constitution? People who try to force you to think that homosexuality is normal? Or, how about killing a couple million kids a year? What is more hateful? Pointing out the madness or just be silent?
Again, thank you for the honor. I am thrilled that you hate me! I know I must be on the right track.
November 21, 2008
7:22 p.m.
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cynical_one writes:
NoMoe writes:
"Hey cynical_one! What hate? People who try to destroy the Constitution? People who try to force you to think that homosexuality is normal? Or, how about killing a couple million kids a year? What is more hateful? Pointing out the madness or just be silent?"
Again, thanks for the hate.
"Again, thank you for the honor. I am thrilled that you hate me! I know I must be on the right track."
I don't hate you; I don't care about you. Unfortunately, stupidity like yours isn't against the law.
November 21, 2008
10:54 p.m.
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BJG writes:
All this hate over what one insignificant man has said and the papers deem important to print. This is a time of trial for all of us not just BO. Let's pull together or we will all perish.