Focus on the Family puts retailers on Christmas naughty, nice list

By Mark Barna, The Gazette

Published November 16, 2008 at 4:01 p.m.

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November 16, 2008

4:46 p.m.

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BJG writes:

Gimmie the list. I'll buy everything from the places that FOF wants me to boycott.
November 16, 2008

4:52 p.m.

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NDCowboy writes:

Me too, BJG.
November 16, 2008

4:56 p.m.

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bronco writes:

They should focus on their own damn family, as one bumper sticker so eloquently states.
November 16, 2008

5:03 p.m.

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Awal writes:

The faster the Republican party can kick groups like FOF to the curb, the faster it has a chance to regain some sort of prominence. And I think the RMN just covers them because they know the people will get upset. If everyone just left them to rot in silence, we wouldn't ever have to hear about them again.
November 16, 2008

5:07 p.m.

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Gillian writes:

So I guess you all think Christmas should be banned? What a bunch of braindead zombies you are.
November 16, 2008

5:13 p.m.

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expatman writes:

Anybody know of an online petition I can sign telling FOF how much I dislike them and their christian PC bullying projects?
November 16, 2008

5:19 p.m.

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happymike44 writes:

I don't need any group telling me whose naughty and whose been nice.
Christmas is for the children not for a group of people to hold us hostage and dictate who I shop with.
FOF can FOAD as far I am concerned.
Let me make up my mind who I shop with for the holidays.
November 16, 2008

5:21 p.m.

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ihaverightstoo writes:

Happy Hanukkah, and Happy Kwanza Gillian! FOF is a greedy, fear-based organization that prostitutes religion to make millions each year.
November 16, 2008

5:27 p.m.

HolierThanThou writes:

(This comment was removed by the site staff.)
November 16, 2008

5:41 p.m.

rancherfromhell writes:

(This comment was removed by the site staff.)
November 16, 2008

5:44 p.m.

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virtuesfor1000 writes:

What happened to the golden rule? (which by the way is found in every major religion)

For those anti-FOF, please take the high road.

To those in FOF, does this mean you are right and everyone else is wrong? As a Christian I am offended by your message. Is this how you make Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Sikhs, Jews, Baha'is, Zorastians, deists, non-religious, and atheists feel welcome?

May I find the wisdom to always follow my own words...

2007 estimate of world population: Christians 33.32% (of which Roman Catholics 16.99%, Protestants 5.78%, Orthodox 3.53%, Anglicans 1.25%), Muslims 21.01%, Hindus 13.26%, Buddhists 5.84%, Sikhs 0.35%, Jews 0.23%, Baha'is 0.12%, other religions inc Zorastians and deists 11.78%, non-religious 11.77%, atheists 2.32%
November 16, 2008

5:49 p.m.

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DenverTea writes:

i am so shopping at all the stores FOF says are naughty.
November 16, 2008

5:51 p.m.

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sqjnk writes:

ahh, love that dogma. I'm glad focus on the family is concerned with what christmas is really about these days. consumerism and buying stuff.
If someone is having a war on christmas, will they please take out the speakers at stores blasting repetitive and annoying christmas songs. thank you
November 16, 2008

5:52 p.m.

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roger44 writes:

I wonder whose idea it was to have Christmas in December when by all accounts describing the birth of Christ points to spring as the birthdate?
November 16, 2008

5:55 p.m.

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History writes:

much ado about nothing
This is what a Christian ministry decides to do with its time? What about all that helping the poor, sick, the unfortunate Nope - Consumerism - yes, well consumerism in the name of their god
November 16, 2008

5:56 p.m.

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GladysKravitz writes:

How we are not astounded....the christo-facists of F Ups in the Family and their ilk, make a big deal about how terrible it is to suggest boycotting companies that helped finance Prop 8, yet they encourage this garbage because retailers choose to appeal to everyone with HOLIDAY SALES. Again no room at the inn for incusiveness.
November 16, 2008

5:59 p.m.

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milesd writes:

Where, in Christian text, is there mention of the 25th of December being the birthday of Christ?
November 16, 2008

6:05 p.m.

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Uno writes:

All the vile hatred from the left...disgusting...may be you all should work on Christmas day and just ignore it. If you have a job.
November 16, 2008

6:16 p.m.

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kasiksil writes:

Believe me I do have a job and have worked Christmas day for the past decade, allowing my religious friends the opportunity to be at haome with their families. Befriend your non-religious coworkers and use them!
November 16, 2008

6:41 p.m.

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IronmanCarmichael writes:

Focus on the Family should focus on how many Christians actually spend the Christmas season celebrating the birth of Christ their Savior with genuine love and joy and how many so-called Christians ruin their own Christmas season by grumbling and complaining and compiling spite lists because of the people who exercise their freedom to celebrate the holiday however they want to (and frequently having a holly-jolly good time) instead of the way these self-professed Christians feel they should.
November 16, 2008

7:06 p.m.

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ddchili writes:

What? A list from FOF for shopping "values"? ROFL!!!! Okay good FOF citizens, if you go to a hater store like Bloomingdale's then your church seat moves back a few rows. Naughty, naughty, naughty!

BBBBBB-But wait,Bloomingdale's owned by the good Lord & Taylor and Macey's. EVOL retailers!!! Had me fooled again, shame one me twice hahaha.

JC,I thought it was the gift that counts!

http://www.citizenlink.org/content/A0...
November 16, 2008

7:17 p.m.

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jfkdem47 writes:

If you don't like what Focus on the Family is saying, then why worry about what they're saying.

Those whining about Focus on the Family look small and petty. Not Focus on the Family.

As one attempted to say "For those anti-FOF, please take the high road." Good luck. Hate makes small people even smaller and the posts attacking Focus on the Family are proving the anti-FOF ilk to be the smallest and pettiest of all.
November 16, 2008

7:26 p.m.

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cogramma writes:

Why did the article even appear in the RMN? It's not news
November 16, 2008

7:40 p.m.

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H20 writes:

an organized brainwashing cult!
November 16, 2008

7:41 p.m.

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biased1 writes:

So Colorado Springs doesn't have the religious diversity that many other parts of the country have but the reason many retailers say "Happy Holidays" versus "Merry Christmas" is that their shoppers are not exclusively Christian, but do have important religious traditions at this time of year. Most notably Jews, who do not celebrate Christmas but do have a high holy day in December. This is an "inclusive" move versus exclusive. It is meant to include all traditions - not to minimize Christmas. FOF is just blind to the reasons behind why retailers use these phrases. Its sad that the true meaning and traditions of Christianity have become corrupted by these extreme groups who promulgate hate and intolerance versus love and compassion.

As for why Christmas is celebrated on December 25th - it was a move by those spreading Christianity in what is now western Europe to integrate existing pagan traditions into Christian traditions. That was how Christianity was spread - rather than confront and reject native religious traditions - they co-opted / adopted elements of the indigenous traditions into Christianity. Why do you think we have a Christmas tree? That was part of the pagan rituals in Western Europe, December 25th is near the winter equinox - always important in pagan / druid traditions. So Christmas on December 25th was part of that move. When the colonists came over to America they actually rejected this Christmas tradition for many years - seeing it as part of the oppression of the Church of England (I think). In fact I think it was actually banned for a time. But could you find anyone in FOF who would know this? I doubt it.
November 16, 2008

7:58 p.m.

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10ltrtr16 writes:

for those that are wondering, the date of christmas was decided when the catholic church noticed that an inconvient druid holiday was right in the middle of winter, and drawing all the spotlight. the date was set to add in some good, secualr fun and get people to turn back toward the church. this was decided at the first council of Nicea.

am i the only person that finds it rediculous that wishing someone "happy hollidays" is now a threat on christianity? people are wishing eachother well, and you want to boycott them for that?
faith of any kind should be about love, rather than this blatant hate everywhere these days. calling organizations "Christmas Offensive" because they choose to wish the vast muslim and jewish populations well, as opposed to keeping it christian-specific. is really petty. we're the great melting pot- our legacy as a country is welcoming into the nation different cultures, different ideals, and yes, different holidays.
what happened to Luke 10:26? "Love thy Neighbor as thyself."
November 16, 2008

7:58 p.m.

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mama_mia writes:

I'm a Christian. I love Christmas and I celebrate it fully, in my home and in my church. However, unlike the folks at FOF, I realize that not everyone is Christian. Jews celebrate Hanukkah at this time of year as well, and are also buying gifts. Any business that chooses to use "holiday" instead of "Christmas" is not doing it to "be secular", but to include ALL the holidays celebrated at this time of year. Christmas IS a holiday, is it not? I admit, I think it's ridiculous when they call a Christmas tree a "holiday tree", but I also find the outrage over the whole thing to be bizarre, selfish, and a little amusing.

I don't need to see the word "Christmas" in a catalog or store display to have a meaningful, spiritual, and wonderful Christmas holiday. I will gladly join the other posters in giving my business to those stores on the "naughty list", in order to make up for the zealots who will boycott them.
November 16, 2008

8:13 p.m.

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farsidefan writes:

I'll take a shot at why Christmas is Dec. 25th. I recall reading somewhere that pagans celebrated the Winter equinox, it being the shortest day of daylight of the year.
Instead of trying to convert all of them, the Christians ( maybe the Catholic church ) decided to celebrate the birth of Christ close to the equinox. Thereby, offsetting some of the earlier celebrations.
When they did try and convert the "pagans" they pointed to the Christian celebration on the 25th as a logical substitute for the equinox celebration that was so revered by the pagans. Thus giving the pagans a reasons to celebrate and made conversion a kind of compromise.
November 16, 2008

8:21 p.m.

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Amikeb1 writes:

I may not shop exclusively on the naughty list, but I will boycott the nice list. Companies were most likely contacted by FOF, informed of the lists, and either made a special effort to please them or bullied into changing their ads. For that they will not get my business, or my companies business. I also would like information on a petition expressing my disapproval of the actions of FOF. Please post a site if you know of one. BTW FOF...you lost the election, so this year my Christmas Egg Nog will be raised in your defeat.
November 16, 2008

8:23 p.m.

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NeilT writes:

Uno and jfkdem47,

Be reasonable now. Cogramma asks a very good question. In fact, it's at the heart of the matter here.

This FOF guide is meant as an internal recommendation for their members/followers. The RMN ran it as a story, I'd imagine because FOF probably issued a press release. FOF would be wrong in doing that, but the RMN is wrong for running the "story."

Some folks, myself included, don't like this. FOF, with RMN assistance, served the ball. We're just returning the serve. To your dismay, FOF doesn't have any aces left in them, so they're quickly dropping in the ranks. Like a washed-up pro, they're losing their fan base, as well. That's why they feel the need to advertise and, if need be, create controversy. Any media coverage is good media coverage. It makes FOF and their base feel relevant.

I would think FOF would be too busy "curing" all the gay folk, given the heat around Prop 8 and the national protests, to start another fight.
November 16, 2008

8:34 p.m.

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NeilT writes:

farside fan is correct.

I'll take it a few steps further with only a name...

Horus

aka...

Jesus
November 16, 2008

8:38 p.m.

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j_m writes:

Does FOF realize that Christmas began as a pagan holiday? This is a ridiculous display of brainwashing IMO.
November 16, 2008

8:41 p.m.

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SirChuckB writes:

I've always found irony in the fact that right is usually a little more pro business and free market. From an economic standpoint, the stores are smart to use non specific phrases. Every Jewish person or Atheist they upset with Merry Christmas is another sale lost. By saying Happy Holidays, they're more inclusive, which brings more people into the stores and, bottom line brings them more profit.....
November 16, 2008

8:44 p.m.

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Chadley25 writes:

FOTF just becomes more and more fringe and irrelevant with every passing month, don't they? I remember back when they were an actual faith-based, family-centered ministry. Now, they're nothing more than a bunch of radical right-wing hacks with a blatant political agenda. It's sad, because they're doing much more harm now than good. It's an outrage, however, because they're doing it tax-free.
November 16, 2008

9:02 p.m.

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BJG writes:

JFKdem47:
We look petty and small??? FOF has been slinging their hate based doctrine for years. Who in their right mind would support a group like this?
November 16, 2008

9:18 p.m.

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palequ47 writes:

If FOF was truly concerned about Christmas, why do they even care what retailers do? I mean, isn't Christmas supposed to be about the birth of Jesus and not the gift giving?

Not that I'm surprised by their hypocrisy...they only support the families they deem to be families and the heck with the rest of us.
November 16, 2008

9:18 p.m.

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arthistorybabe writes:

Hate and judgement - isn't there a line or two in their good book about this? Oh, and something about seperating CHURCH AND STATE in the founding documents of this country? Forgive me for raising my voice.
November 16, 2008

9:22 p.m.

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henpen writes:

Please tell me that FoF has something better to do with their time than threaten retailers for their choices to advertise their products and services. This type of proclamation is ridiculous and certainly counter productive during these difficult economic times. Attitudes like this are going to kill the republican party. The RNC better wake up and recognize this sooner rather than later. Does FoF think their followers are puppets????
November 16, 2008

9:33 p.m.

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jfkdem47 writes:

Talk about getting off topic. What on earth does FOF releasing a list of their preferences about retailers have to do with "separation of church and state"?

The shrill shrieks of anguish from those who hate FOF is starting to blind them to the point that some forgot what the subject of the article is about.

With opponents sounding so irrational about a simple news article, its no wonder that FOF has followers around the country that outnumber the handful of complainers on this board by a factor of 10000 to 1.
November 16, 2008

9:43 p.m.

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windskull writes:

Ain`t there a topical cream to get rid of this rash?
November 16, 2008

9:47 p.m.

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BillORights writes:

North Korea has Kim Jong Il , Colorado springs has Jim Dobson. send xmass koolaid relief now.
November 16, 2008

9:50 p.m.

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NeilT writes:

jfkdem47,

Did you read the article?

"On Thursday the Colorado Springs-based ministry's political action arm launched its second-annual holiday campaign"

Maintaining a tax-exempt status as a religious institution while running a "political action arm" is crap.

You don't know jack about statistics. That's obvious by your made-up numbers and your lack of understanding about sampling.

Save yourself and put as much distance between you and FOF. The RNC is starting, you should too.
November 16, 2008

9:50 p.m.

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Cowboy63 writes:

expatman writes: "Anybody know of an online petition I can sign telling FOF how much I dislike them and their christian PC bullying projects?"

Of course it's only "PC bullying" when it's the Christians. If it's the gay community calling for boycotts of entire states, then it's OK.

Liberal hypocrisy at it's purist. Why don't you Liberals do what everyone else in the FREE world is going to do - shop where you want and grow up.
November 16, 2008

9:52 p.m.

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Chadley25 writes:

jfkdem, we get it. You love Focus on the Family. I would seriously doubt that on the whole, their supporters these days outnumber their detractors by 10,000:1. As for the "complainers" on this board, they appear to outnumber you dramatically. You're the only one defending this laughingstock of a "ministry" from what I can see.

Like I said earlier, FOTF used to be quite a decent organization... I even really enjoyed listening to Dobson's radio program back in the early 90s. No more, though... they have truly lost their way in the years since moving to Colorado Springs, and seem committed to playing politics and trying -- in vain, I might add -- to stamp out homosexuality. That's all they're about now.

Others have already pointed out the idiocy of a Christian ministry using its position to encourage people to shop at certain places and avoid others, celebrating the birth of Christ (at the wrong time of the year) by buying useless crap for people that they don't need. Remind me again where the "ministry" in all this is?
November 16, 2008

9:53 p.m.

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NeilT writes:

The gay community is not a tax-exempt organization, Cowboy.
November 16, 2008

9:53 p.m.

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Domino writes:

Who does Focus on the Family not hate?

And fascist fools, it is not wrong to point out hatred.
November 16, 2008

10 p.m.

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xeeian writes:

Ah, the Right and political correctness.

I want people to wish me "Merry Christmas" as I purchase my freedom fries.
November 16, 2008

10:01 p.m.

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ILoveChipotle writes:

Why don't you Christian hating, "tolerant" liberals go celebrate festivus then. I find it pretty hypocritical that you "enlightened" people celebrate a Christian holiday and even care what FOTF has to say.
November 16, 2008

10:11 p.m.

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Hola writes:

BJG, took the words right out of my mouth. As a matter of fact, the fact that these clowns support repubs was another (of oh so many) reasons I didn't vote repub in this election. Dobson doesn't speak for God, the idiots who think he does deserve what they get.
November 16, 2008

10:15 p.m.

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Chadley25 writes:

The "enlightened" people aren't evil -- they're not anti-Christian. They're anti-people-telling-them-how-to-live.

That's the big difference that seems to be missed. FOTF and others like them live to tell OTHER people what they should and shouldn't do. Liberals appear to exist more on a "live and let live" basis. If you want to worship an invisible man in the sky, and believe in talking snakes, and center your entire existence around a fictional book written over 2,000 years ago by human beings who sought to control other human beings, that's just fine with a liberal. But don't try to force other people to do it, and don't single out commercial retailers for scorn because they don't look at Christmas the same way YOU do. Even knowledgeable Christians admit that Christmas was designed, not really to truly celebrate Christ's birth (which didn't occur in December at all), but to steal thunder away from the pagan celebration of the winter solstice. Even in the fourth century, Christians were hypocrites! Ha ha... just kidding. Except not really.

Same goes for gays. I don't know of any gay people who are wanting to convert everyone to homosexuality. That's a popular lie told by hysterical anti-gay people. From what I see, gay people just want to be left alone to enjoy the same life that everyone else does. Yet it's quite evident from history that Christians are very keen to convert other people to their way of thinking and believing, even if they have to resort to violence and persecution (see: The Crusades and The Inquisitions and The Salem Witch Trials for more details).

If Christians would just mind their own business instead of being SO concerned about what other people are doing, I bet the "Christian-hating tolerant liberals" wouldn't have a thing to say about them. :)
November 16, 2008

10:24 p.m.

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ILoveChipotle writes:

FOTF isn't telling you how to live, they put out a Christian / Christmas friendly retail store list.

I don't see them forcing you to do anything. You are just trying to justify your hate towards Christians.

As a sidenote, it doesn't matter that the 25th is not the actual birthday of Jesus, it is a time to celebrate our Savior's birth and to reflect on His sacrifice for us.
November 16, 2008

10:26 p.m.

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GOPteacher writes:

Wow, who is hating? A lot of vitriol against Christians here. How many of you have listened to the program before?

It's interesting that boycotting all of Utah is NOT hate, but supporting traditional marriage is. The left seems to throw the hate word around against anyone who dares stand in their path.

BTW, send all of your suggestions to the Republican National Committee. They're always looking for new ideas.
November 16, 2008

10:27 p.m.

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NeilT writes:

Chipotlesuucks,

Dobson and his PAC are not Christian. So I'm not "Christian hating" on this thread.

Striking back against intolerance is not a bad thing. A Jewish run store would make FOF's naughty list. That's not cool.

The "Christian holiday" side of Christmas has nothing to do with shopping. What do you expect though, when Bush, the wingnut mouthpiece on a conference call with Dobson and God, asks for Americans to shop when times are tough. He even gave us money to go buy stuff.
November 16, 2008

10:29 p.m.

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syila16 writes:

If you all bothered to read the bible, you would know that we should celebrate the Birth of CHRIST in September. The bible says that Jesus was CONCEIVED in December. So maybe we are celebrating the Conception and not the actual birth of Jesus.
November 16, 2008

10:35 p.m.

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ihaverightstoo writes:

As jfkdem47 writes: "Hate makes small people even smaller and the posts attacking Focus on the Family are proving the anti-FOF ilk to be the smallest and pettiest of all."
If that were the case, FOF would be so small they'd be invisible, and that's fine with me. Any organization like FOF that has been on hate and fear has no place in this society. They mock the meaning of what it is to be a true Christian, a follower of Christ. Christ would be ashamed of Dobson and he cronies.
November 16, 2008

10:52 p.m.

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GOPteacher writes:

NeilT
"Dobson and his PAC are not Christian. So I'm not "Christian hating" on this thread."

Dobson isn't Christian? Based on what?

Please listen to the program sometime. It is almost completely dedicated to family living.
November 16, 2008

11:09 p.m.

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PaleoConservative writes:

NeilT writes:

"The gay community is not a tax-exempt organization, Cowboy."

The gay community puts out a "pink pages" to direct people to gay friendly businesses. Same concept.
November 16, 2008

11:10 p.m.

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MM2 writes:

Gillian, might I suggest that you do a google search on the term "false dichotomy"? It will potentially save you from looking like a fool in the future.
November 16, 2008

11:20 p.m.

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MM2 writes:

The "Christmas Friendly" list has Linens 'N Things which is going out of business. Meanwhile the "Christmas Negligent" list has KMart which is owned by Sears, which is "Christmas Friendly".

Apparently this list was put together by an Adderall addicted monkey somewhere in the FOF basement.
November 16, 2008

11:46 p.m.

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NeilT writes:

GOPTeacher,

Based on Dobson's hate, intolerance and constant judging of others. He strayed from the teachings of Jesus a long time ago.

PaleoConservative writes:
"NeilT writes:

"The gay community is not a tax-exempt organization, Cowboy."

The gay community puts out a "pink pages" to direct people to gay friendly businesses. Same concept."

What? Your response has nothing to do with my comment. What do "pink pages" and a tax-exempt religious institution with a PAC have to do with each other?
November 16, 2008

11:49 p.m.

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navymom writes:

It is simply amazing how people can take this story and turn it into a tirade against Christians.

1. Christmas is celebrated as a Christian holiday. It is actually shortened from CHRIST'S MASS to CHRISTMAS.

2. Retailers have advertised and set up for Christmas and the sale of trees, decorations, and gifts for centuries because Christians celebrate Christmas, not Hanukkah or Kwanzaa.

3. Gift-giving for Hanukkah, other than the traditional coin, is a relatively new tradition. It seems to have come in to existence because of interfaith, American Jews trying to balance Christianity and Judaism.

4. Hanukkah is varies from year to year, as determined by the Jewish calendar, and is often over about the time that Christmas shoppers are gearing up.

5. Kwanzaa is not a religious celebration at all and starts the day after Christmas. It is a cultural celebration for African Americans and Pan Africans.

While I understand that Hanukkah and Kwanzaa are recognized holidays for specific groups of people, I cannot understand the rush to be politically correct and take the word Christmas out of our greetings, advertising, etc.

Being not politically correct, I will just wish everyone here on the RMN forum an early MERRY CHRISTMAS. For all my Jewish friends, Happy Hannukkah. Since I am being politically incorrect, I will leave Kwanzaa up to others, as I think that we should just all be Americans, not African Americans, Asian Americans, American Indian (please don't hate me Hopi), Latin American, etc.

BTW, for those of you who hate FOTF and the rest of us, God bless you and keep you. That's all I will say on that subject or I fear that not only will I be politically incorrect, but will also be downright unChristian if I say more.
November 16, 2008

11:51 p.m.

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NeilT writes:

Jimminy writes: "On a related note,perhaps those who here most eloquently show their hatred of the devout might care to tell us how Islamic and Communist theocracies deal with outspoken dissenters from the state religion."

Thus the importance of the separation of church and state. Is it safe to assume you'll defend this now? As you pointed out, bad things can happen when church and state merge.

Thanks!
November 16, 2008

11:52 p.m.

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navymom writes:

Neil, btw, PACs are tax exempt also, so what is your point?
November 16, 2008

11:55 p.m.

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roger44 writes:

I long for the days when I was a kid and there was none of this kind of stuff going on. Didn't have people knocking on the door asking to come in and tell me about God, no one on the other side pushed their non beliefs, we all just got along.
I shop where I get the best deal, if a store clerk says happy Holidays, you can just answer Merry Christmas and they smile, because the employer told them to use that phrase. Seems the older the leaders of these groups get, the more radical they get. Getting to be where it's just like an election, glad to see it over.
November 17, 2008

12:06 a.m.

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NeilT writes:

navymom,

You need to study all the different tax exemptions (501's) and the rules and regulations involved.

FOF mixes a 501(c)3 and a 501(c)4. If fact, the religious side 501(c)3 is not allowed to advocate for specific bills or endorse candidates. Yet that is exactly what Dobson does.
November 17, 2008

12:08 a.m.

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NeilT writes:

And you can't tell me that FOF members don't "tithe" to the 501(c)4 PAC.
November 17, 2008

3:06 a.m.

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p_myers661 writes:

As I read the article, FOF suggested that if their followers wished to do so, they could patronize certain retailers. l read the specific words, "we aren't asking anyone to boycott any business." Looks to me like it's another case of jump on those who annoy you. I can sympathize, but it is a lot kinder than the various "Don't shop here becuase...." messages I see for various reasons.

I don't shop for Christmas, poverty is one reason and practical reason is that I agree that too much commercialism is a bad thing for people.

Those who wrote that that Christian festivals (once called holy days) were set up to coincide with pagan festivals. That's true. The people who converted needed ties to their past. They also needed to retain local customs because customs are often more important to people than they realize.

If any more of you end up on my Christmas list you'll need to go on a diet. We just finished the measuring for our Thanksgiving baking. No one in this neighborhood will go hungry. We got three turkey certificates as gifts and since we already had one in the freezer, we can give them away. That is the greatest gift, the ability to give.

Perhaps FOF has done us all a favor by encouraging us to look for faith instead of markdown sales.
November 17, 2008

3:33 a.m.

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nicktaste writes:

"...Many of the world's crucified godmen have their traditional birthdays on December 25th ("Christmas").This date is set because the ancients recognized that ( from a geocentric perspective in the northern hemisphere) the sun makes an annual descent southward until after midnight of Dec. 21st, the winter solstice, when it stops moving southerly for three days and was "born again" after midnight of Dec. 24th. Thus, these many different cultures celebrated with great joy the "sun of God's" birthday on December 25th."

[ Acharya S.: The Christ Conspiracy, Adventures Unlimited Press, 1999. p154 ]
November 17, 2008

5:26 a.m.

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diggtbks writes:

Here's an idea,

you anti-religious weasels go shop at the "unfriendly" Christmas stores and those who are religious and support Christmas shop at the "friendly" retailers.

The "friendly" retailers will squash your "unfriendly" stores in sales. Bigtime!

I think its a great idea! Go Focus on the Family! This will be a death sentence to some retailers in this economy. Gutsy move.
November 17, 2008

5:56 a.m.

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diggtbks writes:

Funny how 90% of you religion-haters ask for your last rights while on your death bed.... hypocrites
November 17, 2008

6:33 a.m.

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Mark Brown writes:

It's "last rites."
November 17, 2008

6:34 a.m.

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acm writes:

so where is the list??????? Why not put some of the companies in the article?
November 17, 2008

6:34 a.m.

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tbizzy writes:

Let's see, a group suggests supporting "Merry Christmas" by highlighting stores is bad.

Groups that highlight "green" stores that are "environmentally friendly" to placate the environmentalists are good.

I, for one, welcome my new fascist environmental overloards, ruled by Comrade Obama.
November 17, 2008

6:37 a.m.

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Shaupeen writes:

The word is a better place when you think for yourself. Some of you supporting this Dobson-led hate-factory should give it a try.
November 17, 2008

6:44 a.m.

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Mike_In_Hartsel writes:

Ho, ho, ho, who cares?

Much to do about nothing.

Christmas will arrive regardless of where you shop or where you don't shop.
November 17, 2008

6:47 a.m.

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Chadley25 writes:

"Funny how 90% of you religion-haters ask for your last rights while on your death bed.... hypocrites"
____________________

Congratulations on the contributing the absolute dumbest post of the thread.

In addition to misspelling "rites," you apparently suggest that 90% of the people posting on here have been on their death beds. Did I read that correctly? I realize that desperate people oftentimes make up spurious statistics to try to support their outrageous claims, but usually the statistics at least make a tiny bit of sense, even if they're complete fabrications.

Your made-up phony statistic, however, makes it sound like you believe that 90% of the people typing these "religion-hating" posts have previously died.

Once again, congratulations!
November 17, 2008

7:06 a.m.

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ILoveChipotle writes:

NeilSuks - "Based on Dobson's hate, intolerance and constant judging of others. He strayed from the teachings of Jesus a long time ago." - You are just offering your hateful opinion with no facts. You apparently know Dobson's heart, so please give us specifics.

I just find it laughable that so many libs and Christian haters are mad that a Christian organization published an article for Christians for a Christian holliday.
November 17, 2008

7:15 a.m.

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INC writes:

Any one want to bet those companies FOF has at the top of its list are companies FOF/Dobson holds stock in?
November 17, 2008

7:31 a.m.

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sundaychild67 writes:

Hey Chipotle: I'm a Christian, and a Liberal. Stop calling us Christian haters! If anything, I believe liberals are much closer to what a true Christian is about: tolerance, love, and knowing when to MIND OUR OWN BUSINESS!!!

"Love the man, hate his fan club!"
November 17, 2008

7:36 a.m.

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Hillandale writes:

I'm amazed at how much bile this generates - much of it from the most "tolerant" among us, no doubt. Why do you care? If "Atheists for America" made a list praising “Christmas-offensive” stores, it wouldn’t bother me a bit. Do with it what you will. And for those who keep mentioning “boycott”, the organization clearly said “it is not a boycott.” But then, I imagine you naysayers believe that most anyone who finds FOF a positive organization (i.e. redneck religious wingnuts) also would be mind-numbed and beholden to anything FOF says. Personally, I do find it a bit annoying that we want to promote the gift-giving that originated in this country with Christmas, and ignore the Christmas part. Enlightened progress? Craven commercialism? I don’t think either one is positive.
November 17, 2008

7:38 a.m.

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ILoveChipotle writes:

I found the passages about love and tolerance but can you point me to where Jesus talks about MIND OUR OWN BUSINESS!!!?
November 17, 2008

7:45 a.m.

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conniesz writes:

Christmas may have originally been the reason for the "shopping season" in the US - but it is NOT the origin of the solstice celebration - which is where the tree comes from. And in contemporary America we celebrate a whole lot of holidays in December, not just the Christian one. When I visited Long Island a few years ago in December I found stores decorated in blue and white/silver for Hanukkah - not Green and Red. It reminded me that we Christians do not own December, gift giving, or celebrations around the time of the winter solstice. Humanity has celebrated the longest night since the dawn of time - way longer than 2000 years.

The FOF crowd seems to miss most of the key teachings of Christ - the "Do unto Others as you would have them do unto you", "Love your neighbor as yourself", "turn the other cheek". Nowhere does it say anything about resenting other people's celebrations or condemning other behaviour - remember "Let he who is without sin caste the first stone".

FOF is a group that attempts to control weak minded followers - nothing more. It is not Christian in any sense of what the word means to a true Christian.
November 17, 2008

8:05 a.m.

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Tizzy writes:

Great, now I'm going to have to listen to talk radio all day at work about this topic.

Personally I think that it comes down to a Christmas and Hannukah thing. There's a small percentage that celebrates Kwanza and a small percentage that celebrates no religious holiday in December. People who celebrate Hannukah really could care less about Merry Christmas signs in stores or a display of Christmas Trees. Christians, myself included, don't mind either, if a store has a menorah display.

Why not do things that way and show all symbols, greetings, in a company's retail store, gift catalog, and have employees just say have a happy hannukkah and Merry Christmas. Afterall, Christ himself was a Jewish Carpenter, and most likely celebrated the festival of lights.
November 17, 2008

8:13 a.m.

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MBR693 writes:

More manufactured news from the RMN. Get a life. If you don't like the organization then don't support it.
November 17, 2008

8:25 a.m.

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hinona writes:

It's interesting that the Dobson group has nothing better to do than make "appropriate lists" of where to go, what to do, what to say, and how to say it and justify all of this through "values". The irony is they dont have any values. Also interesting that he and the rest of this boys found Palin and just think she is the greatest thing since... Jesus! So as they say, consider the source... Dobson, Palin, all of them belong together.. maybe should be renamed - OHF - or One Happy Family! Is Saras resale store, Out of the Closet, (so appropriate for this group) on the good list or the bad list? Is there away to move the entire group to Alaska where they can commeserate together and leave the rest of society alone? Don't they have enough people already drinking their Kool Aid?
November 17, 2008

8:30 a.m.

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chickenlittle1234 writes:

I like this. From the religious right, who I often hear carping about PC speech, comes a boycott because a retailer doesn't use what FOF is effectively designating as PC speech. Seems a mite hypocritical to me.
November 17, 2008

8:33 a.m.

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jay045 writes:

I remember one Christmas, the Catholic Diocese had a sign up saying "Whose birthday is it anyway?" As a Jewish person, and someone appalled by the consumerism of this holiday (and of our own holiday), I respected that.

As for Focus on the Family, yeah some of us celebrate non-Christian holidays in December, and we appreciate hearing "happy holidays" once in awhile.
November 17, 2008

8:36 a.m.

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Beergut writes:

To claim to be "good" a retailer has to bend down to the wishes of Christians is sickening. This is just an attempt at extortion via the pulpit.
November 17, 2008

8:45 a.m.

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cynical_one writes:

Thanks Focus on your Family, I needed the laugh this morning. Talk about someone stroking his own ego, Dobson is heading towards the edge.

I'm hoping that people's rejection of Palin, and what she stands for have exposed the agenda of the religious right and the theocracy that they want our government to become.
November 17, 2008

8:45 a.m.

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Winski writes:

WHY-o-WHY do we continue to give these fools a platform? They need to go away..they are irrelevant..

Publish the list so we can ALL shop at the stores they don't want us to support!!
November 17, 2008

8:46 a.m.

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blindrid writes:

Though I'm not a fan of FOF, I will consider shopping the + list. At least some retailer's don't cater to the PC way of shopping.
November 17, 2008

8:46 a.m.

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Motormouth writes:

I and my family will be looking at that list with great interest! Thank you focus on the family for standing up for what is right!!!
November 17, 2008

8:52 a.m.

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Woodrow writes:

Talking about Dobson here?

Ted Haggard...

Game...Set...Match
November 17, 2008

8:54 a.m.

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jay writes:

the sooner the republican kicks the american taliban off their island, the sooner they regain some sort of relevancy in the united states.
November 17, 2008

8:54 a.m.

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cynical_one writes:

blindrid writes:

"Though I'm not a fan of FOF, I will consider shopping the + list. At least some retailer's don't cater to the PC way of shopping."

Yeah, there's nothing like being considerate of other people's feelings and cultures that ruins that Christmas spirit!
November 17, 2008

8:55 a.m.

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Diff writes:

Who really cares about this and in general the FOF and their agenda?
Dobson - get over yourself!
November 17, 2008

8:56 a.m.

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cynical_one writes:

Motormouth writes:

"I and my family will be looking at that list with great interest! Thank you focus on the family for standing up for what is right!!!"

And I'm sure Jesus would back you on that decision... NOT! Do you even comprehend the teaching of the religion that you profess to follow?

You are a hypocrite, just like Dobson and the rest of them.
November 17, 2008

8:58 a.m.

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thevealchop writes:

Focus on the Family reminds me of the brainwashed culties of the Jonestown Massacre: They'll do anything they're told. Sad.
November 17, 2008

9:12 a.m.

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JINX writes:

I wonder if there is a kickback to FOF for being on the nice list. It seems to be an advertising scam to me. Christmas is what you want it to be for your family. FOF quit telling me how to conduct my life and how to treat the people around me. How much does your church (company) make at christmas time.
November 17, 2008

9:19 a.m.

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jamesdenver writes:

Mr. Dobson fronts a political action group that masquerades as a Christian ministry. No long essay needs to be written on this ideology guided bigot.

I really wish the press covering him would dwindle, much like FOTF is doing now

james http://www.futuregringo.com
November 17, 2008

9:49 a.m.

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MGD writes:

wow, they are just encouraging people who subscribe to their beliefs to support businesses who appear to subscribe to those same beliefs.

There is such ignorant hatred from so called liberals. If you are truely liberal then you can just live and let live. What are they hurting by publishing this for those who hold the same values.

If Planned Parenthood created such a list would you all spew such hatred. Hatred in the name of political correctness.

Grow up and move on.
November 17, 2008

9:49 a.m.

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primafacie writes:

If Focus on the Family offends your delicate sensibilities, why waste your time and effort paying attention?

Or does "bullying" and freedom of speech only apply to, say, Greenpeace or PETA?
November 17, 2008

9:54 a.m.

Suggest removal

ghoax writes:

been doin that for years, and say Merry Christmas and will continue to do it, the newspeak modification of language is a dangerous road and has already proved it, abandoning Merry Christmas is just one of many "modifications" of the language to usher in the liberal regime... rebel and say what you want!
November 17, 2008

10:07 a.m.

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barneyrubble writes:

Didnt FOF just have a big layoff, right before the holidays? Doesn't seem very Christ-like to me.
November 17, 2008

10:07 a.m.

Suggest removal

ccon writes:

wouldn't it be nice if there was a list based off of what retailers are complicit with sweatshop labor instead of holiday salutations???

I mean, even judeo-christian ethics don't condone sweatshop labor. Why doesn't FOF put more energy toward that?

Just a thought from another soldier in the war on christmas.
November 17, 2008

10:23 a.m.

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thebrokenforum writes:

Why can't the FOF help bring the holidays in by indulging in some Jonesboro Grape Kool-Aid? Then everyone is happy. They get to go to "heaven" and everyone else moves on with their lives.

http://brokenswordpublications.com
(proud member of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster)
November 17, 2008

10:27 a.m.

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UNV_ME writes:

Hocus Pocus ala kazam... you will do what we say or you will be damned!
November 17, 2008

10:28 a.m.

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GladysKravitz writes:

HAPPY HOLIDAYS EVERYONE!....I hope everyone who observes and celebrates the myriad of holidays at this time of year enjoys their HOLIDAYS to the fullest. Be it lighting a menorah, decorating a tree, or retail therapy.... HAPPY HAPPY HOLIDAYS! Enjoy the HOLIDAY SEASON. Go to a HOLIDAY CONCERT this time of year, go to the PARADE OF LIGHTS, pray at your house of worship or in your home, enjoy a HOLIDAY FEAST. If anything, Merry Chirstma-Kwanza-Kah! I think got that "christ" word in there...whew! HAPPY now?
November 17, 2008

10:33 a.m.

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BackHomeCO writes:

FOF should stay out of everybody elses' lives. Who are they to tell us where we 'should' shop based on how companies display their wares. Talk about fanatical religious bigots -- Focus on the Family is just as dangerous as the Taliban, Al Quida, and all the other fanatical religions out there. FOF members think they're better than everybody else just because they "believe". I got news for everybody -- following an intangible philosophy blindly is an open invitation to being taken advantage of. Think about it people.
November 17, 2008

10:37 a.m.

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BroncoDan writes:

Chirstmas USED to be for kids...NOW it's for business!!! I saw Chrsitmas stuff in the stores, the end of Sept. I get pretty tired of it and try to use the time to just spend with family pigging out!
November 17, 2008

10:37 a.m.

Suggest removal

c4l2a0 writes:

primafacie writes:

If Focus on the Family offends your delicate sensibilities, why waste your time and effort paying attention?"

Because we are a society that is intolerant of intolerance.

Lets use your logic in a different scenario....

The KKK came out this weekend with their list of retailers who employ blacks, Jews, and others that are sub-human.

We should probably just ignore them right along with FOF huh? If the KKK "offends the delicate sensibilities" of non-whites, well, who cares?

Your logic is disgusting and very un-American. Sack up and have some dignity.
November 17, 2008

10:44 a.m.

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PB2004 writes:

I really get angered by the comments written. This a free country and this newspaper is doing exactly what they are supposed to do. Report the things that it's public is interested in. You have the right (due to men and women who have fought and given their lives for this county and you, so that you can have these precious freedoms that we ALL enjoy) to read and or not read a given article published by this newspaper. They are doing their job and maybe you should be doing yours, instead of belly-aching about an article that you don't have to read. You have a choice in all things, including to participate in a religion or not. Your strong anti-Christian antics are just as offensive to me as the religious right who abuse the word and the term "Christian" but do not even know anything about what it is to be a Christian. Shame on you all for wanting to snuff out a group of people, whom you can just choose to just walk away from if approached by. True Christian's will not force you to do anything against your will, and if they do, then they are not following the desires of Christ, but they are decievers and evil doers, putting the desires of men (themselves) above the desires of Christ. We as a people really need to learn to just mind our own affairs and keep our noses out of everyone else's business.
November 17, 2008

10:51 a.m.

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Barron writes:

Re: diggtbks writes: Here's an idea, you anti-religious weasels go shop at the "unfriendly" Christmas stores and those who are religious and support Christmas shop at the "friendly" retailers.

The "friendly" retailers will squash your "unfriendly" stores in sales. Bigtime!"

I'm a devout Christian who has celebrated Christmas all my life and look forward to it every year, and I could care less what JD and FOF thinks or says. I understand that this country includes other people besides Christians, retailers want to honor everyone and that some retailers are just trying to be inclusive, unlike FOF, who don't seem to understand the most basic concepts of Christianity, things like love, tolerance and inclusiveness. Amazing. What's more amazing is that people would not only defend this garbage but call people hateful for criticizing it. It's called "willful ignorance."
November 17, 2008

11:09 a.m.

Suggest removal

666 writes:

Sanctioning financial racketeering, in a suffering economy, for the sake of religious fundamentalism?

Isn't that called...terrorism?????
November 17, 2008

11:19 a.m.

Suggest removal

RightDownTheMiddle writes:

Surely there's more important things they could focus on...

Maybe feed some homeless people or something?

You know...actually do some good for once.
November 17, 2008

11:25 a.m.

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666 writes:

Next thing you know, they'll stop funding charities that refuse to add "of Christ" to their names. You know, it'll be "United Way of Christ", "Save the Children of Christ", "Food Bank of the Rockies of Christ". Either that, or they'll organize a boycott.
November 17, 2008

11:27 a.m.

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primafacie writes:

C4, I've been ignoring the KKK for nigh on five decades now. They're irrelevant. What do I care what they think?
November 17, 2008

11:39 a.m.

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GladysKravitz writes:

I hear ya BroncoDan....I saw that Xmas stuff in stores at the end of Sept too, and we weren't even finished observing Rosh Hahsonah and Yom Kippur! And to top it off there were no signs at the stores that read "Happy Rosh Hashonah" or generically "Happy New Year" ! Oy Vey what's a person to do?
November 17, 2008

11:42 a.m.

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Shaupeen writes:

Oh, good one pb2004! Too clever! You are sarcastically criticizing other people's right to express their opinions by stating your own opinion and then masquerading it as a lecture to those who don't believe like you do! Pretend hypocrisy to make your point! That is very witty! Very clever indeed.
Oh, wait, you weren't being sarcastic? You're serious!?! Oooops. Nevermind.
November 17, 2008

11:45 a.m.

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NoMoe writes:

Sigh.

O.K. Most of us only have to put with the other side for about 50 years or less. Then, you can spend eternity with people who think and act just like you and we can spend eternity on the opposite end; a division so wide no one on either side will be able to cross.

And, you wish our side would go and leave as quickly as possible. Come to think of it, we do too!
November 17, 2008

11:46 a.m.

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NeilT writes:

primafacie writes: "C4, I've been ignoring the KKK for nigh on five decades now. They're irrelevant. What do I care what they think?"

They're relevant to the people on the other end of their fist/boot/club/gun/fear tactics. It still happens. Just because you ignore the problem doesn't make it go away.

Primafacie's statement is not representative of a person with good Christian values.
November 17, 2008

11:53 a.m.

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O_TRAIN writes:

666 - good point. It seems Un-American for a group to tell it's members to not shop at American stores, for doing the American thing of trying to include all Americans during a holiday and at a time of economic crisis no less.

In times of crisis, all Americans should be working toward the issues and problems that affect all Americans - Not spending time and effort on issues which only purpose is to divide us even more. Doesn't matter if it is the anti-gay crowd, FOF or the KKK.
November 17, 2008

11:56 a.m.

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cassidy22 writes:

WOW, I am much more interested in buying products made from sustainable materials, environmentally friendly manufacturing processes, using fair trade practices, and providing safe products for me and my family.

Happy Holidays and Seasons Greetings from a woman who was raised christian in a Jewish neighborhood, and I love potato pancakes and singing dreidl songs. FOF has no place in my value system.
November 17, 2008

11:58 a.m.

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aRe writes:

Ah, like the changing of the leaves, the shorter days, and the first snow - I know it's getting close to winter time again because a few out of sort Christians feel they're being persecuted by the innocent phrase 'Happy Holidays'.
November 17, 2008

11:59 a.m.

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cabodvr writes:

Gillian:
If anyone is brain dead its you and your ultra-conservative ilk. Rather than do all we can to support each other as Americans during this unprecedented economy, your pin headed FOL leader decides to punish certain companies over semantics? Please. Dobson has consistently shown that he is a self-serving, self-aggrandizing, narrow-minded creep. Anyone who blindly follows this moron is truly brain dead.
November 17, 2008

12:01 p.m.

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thebrokenforum writes:

More fascism from such a "wonderful" church...if you can call it that. You people are delusional. Seriously, drink the kool-aid!

Xmas is a hoax. It's a modern day marketing scheme aimed at squeezing as many dollars out of you as it can.

The date was actually chosen by the Romans to coincide with their solar festivals that were held on...(wait for it) Dec. 25! Whoo!

It has absolutely NOTHING to do with religion. NOTHING. That fact that it's even called "Christ"-mas is stupid because no one knows when, exactly he was born (or how exactly he was conceived for that matter).

It is a "holiday" season that is more about marketing and sales than anything even remotely related to religion - unless you worship the winter solstice, in which case, carry on...

It is so sad that more people do not study history and learn why they do the things they do. Look it up. Go read your bibles (lol) there are no dates in there, genius.

http://brokenswordpublications.com
November 17, 2008

12:03 p.m.

Suggest removal

NeilT writes:

BackHomeCO writes: "following an intangible philosophy blindly is an open invitation to being taken advantage of."

Dobson knows this!

He is a licensed psychologist in California. Child development, specifically. I find it rather interesting he chose this course work. You see, many developmental processes/theories/mechanisms attributed to "child development" are not unique to children alone. They stay with us for life. We're bigger children is all. If one understands what it takes to mold a child's mind, they can be just as successful molding the mind of an adult.

There's a reason politicians speak to us at a sixth grade level.

666 writes: "Sanctioning financial racketeering, in a suffering economy, for the sake of religious fundamentalism?

Isn't that called...terrorism?????"

Yes!

Dobson himself is a terrorist. He had a very strict, oppressive and repressive childhood. He tagged along with his father, watching him preach door-to-door.

He wants for others to experience his pain. No different than modern day school shooters (Columbine). The wounds of childhood healed long ago, but the scars are still there.

Dobson terrorizes his followers so they will fall in line with his way of thinking. The more that think his ways are correct, the more it validates his childhood for him. He is the most dangerous kind of terrorist. He works from a position of trust and authority. Dobson can have a conversation with your innermost feelings without you even knowing it.

At least the "popular" terrorists fly planes into our buildings, so we know who they are. Dobson hides behind the Bible. Well, there is a very special place in hell for him. He takes advantage of many, promoting his ideology and agenda...the teachings of Jesus be damned!

As far as punishment here on earth, there's still hope. His use of "conversion therapy" is not approved by ANY major medical group. He has started applying this "treatment" to children. Many medical groups now classify this as a form of child abuse. One court ruling has agreed, so far. Just wait for the next child that snaps and shoots-up his school/parents and it turns out he was subjected to this barbaric treatment. Class action...
November 17, 2008

12:09 p.m.

Suggest removal

cassidy22 writes:

BTW - for the folks questioning why Xmas is in December... The Pope made it so...

It was a way for Christians to co-opt a common pagan festival - Winter Solstice. It was VERY common for christian "missionaries" to attempt to force others to believe in their religion by overtaking their religious sanctuaries and co-opting their religious holidays. it has happened all over the world, from Ireland to Peru. it's pretty subversive, and the ultra-christian fundies don't want to admit it. (garland on xmas trees USED to be the intestines of your enemies, nice, huh?)
November 17, 2008

12:16 p.m.

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HankReardon writes:

Thank You, Easter Bunny!
November 17, 2008

12:23 p.m.

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sunshinestate writes:

What,after all, where the factors and assumptions that led FOF to 'relocate" to Colorado?Colorado Springs?
It is said that many new residents attracted to the interior west in fact do not understand the region.
(By the way- 'Sunshine State' is the official motto of...??*Florida*)
November 17, 2008

12:33 p.m.

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Heidi writes:

Retailers....they're damned if they do and they're damned if they don't.
November 17, 2008

1:06 p.m.

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mrwiizrd writes:

"abodvr writes:

If anyone is brain dead its you and your ultra-conservative ilk."

Please get your terminology right, FOF and it's followers are not ultra-conservatives, they are neo-conserservatives or religious conservatives, who are trying to use religion as an instrument of promoting morality. Religion becomes what Plato called a noble lie. It is a myth which is told to the majority of the society by the philosophical elite in order to ensure social order.
November 17, 2008

1:15 p.m.

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Reason writes:

I wish I could watch Zeitgeist and actually buy the nonsense it proposes, it must be nice to put on the gullible believer goggles.
November 17, 2008

1:28 p.m.

Suggest removal

NeilT writes:

Reason is a hypocrite, with his goggles and all.

That "movie" is recent. The facts were around long before the movie.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr...
November 17, 2008

1:41 p.m.

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HoosierGuy writes:

Just curious, how many of you would have the kahonas to gripe about FUBU clothing or other ethno-centric business practices?
November 17, 2008

1:44 p.m.

Suggest removal

NeilT writes:

Does FUBU enjoy tax-exempt status while chatting on its direct line to the White House or God?
November 17, 2008

1:45 p.m.

Suggest removal

sarge writes:

I am not from Colorado , so when I read this article I see that most of the comments are anti-FOF and border on anti-Christian. FOF's article seems to be aimed at its followers or those in sympathy to the Christian belief. FOF does not tell even them to make their purchases at a certain retailer. It merely is advising those that wish to know, and may not know, the retailers that do not recognize "Christmas", but tend to "commercialize it.
What really stands out about most of these comments is the opinions expressed that seem to have no logic for support, but are laid out for all to see just how irrational and/or offpoint some are. It brings back "sayings" that my Mother told me, such as: "He talks like a goose firing by moonlight"....Or: Be careful what you say, because others will be able to discover how "stupid" you are when you begin talking". Reading most of these comments, I think I have discovered why Colorado voted for Obama. Most herein seem anti-Christian, thereby willing to support one who sympathizes with the murdering of babies. And before you comment as concerns this post, do not say a fetus is not a baby, for none of you that are posting on this site would be here to do so had you not been "alive" as to the moment of conception, and Obama would not be Pres. elect now either.
November 17, 2008

1:45 p.m.

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ron65ron writes:

They should promote this waste to thier biased/backstabbing followers. Thank you FOF for pusing out your intollerence. Of course this list will only make people want to buy from the retailers who you BLACKLIST
November 17, 2008

1:50 p.m.

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Diff writes:

For those who seem to think that everyone who is not fond of FOF, and critical them and accusing them of being "anti -Christian" or "Anti Religious";
For me I am anti-FOF and anti-Dobson, I do not like their particular version of the religion and view of how everyone should be, act and believe being shoved down my throat as the ONE, TRUE view of religion, or of Christianity. Their Holier-than-thou attitude is down right sickening - and for most of you the idea and call for being Tolerant - only goes as far as everyone being tolerant of this brand of false righteousness.
This is an example of the basic PC Crapola being taken WAY too far.
Give me a break!
November 17, 2008

1:52 p.m.

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ILoveChipotle writes:

NeilT - I'm sorry but comparing Dobson to the 9/11 terrorists and the shooters of columbine makes you the most idiot poster of the day. Congratulations.
November 17, 2008

1:59 p.m.

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O_TRAIN writes:

I'm surprised - don't they usually through in a prayer to have it rain down hell-fire on the "opposition"? In this case that would be anyone who shops wherever the hell they want. I'll be waiting.
November 17, 2008

2:08 p.m.

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HankReardon writes:

The Pagans=Yule Log, Holly, Wreaths, Pine Trees etc.
November 17, 2008

2:12 p.m.

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06concept writes:

Regardless of what Focus on the Family puts on their web site. When the media hits their site and puts it the news; it gives an excuse for all you idiots to post something negative about it. Whatever they do on their site is there business and those who choose to go there. I say Christmas should stay as it is, that is how it has always been and needs to stay that way. If someone wants to celebrate it in their own way, so be it! I don't care, but the fact remains that is the way it has always been. No respect in this world for anything anymore!
November 17, 2008

2:18 p.m.

Suggest removal

60s4ever writes:

Jesus loves those who say "Merry Christmas". He also loves those who say "Happy Holidays". I will shop at stores that say either.
November 17, 2008

2:27 p.m.

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elkman writes:

NeilT
I will second "ILoveChipotle". You been smoking something? There is not one shred of common sence to what you say.
November 17, 2008

2:42 p.m.

Suggest removal

NeilT writes:

Gee...did I strike a nerve?

ILoveChipotle and elkman are good, obedient little foot soldiers.
November 17, 2008

2:48 p.m.

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cynical_one writes:

ILoveChipotle writes:

"NeilT - I'm sorry but comparing Dobson to the 9/11 terrorists and the shooters of columbine makes you the most idiot poster of the day. Congratulations."

There are different types and different levels of terrorism. One could say that the CEOs of the investment banks that put their own greed before the good of their companies therefore creating the financial collapse are terrorists because of the result of their actions. Or poachers that slaughter baby seals or elephants or whales for profit can be thought of as terrorists. Even some religious leaders could be though of as terriors, ie Jim Jones or David Koresh.

M-W defines terrorist as "the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion"

Coerce is defined as:
"1 : to restrain or dominate by force <religion in the past has tried to coerce the irreligious — W. R. Inge>
2 : to compel to an act or choice <was coerced into agreeing>
3 : to achieve by force or threat <coerce compliance>"
November 17, 2008

2:48 p.m.

Suggest removal

McGowdog writes:

Focus on the Family? Christmas?

So tell me a bed-time story, Jim! Gotta tell ya bout a story bout a man named Ted poor pastor abused at seven while he was singing bout the Heaven... Then one day he got caught up in meth and a dude named Bruce, then he got em' self a laywer and now he's a singin' down in Branson!!!!! Missouri that is!!!!!!!! Yee Haw!

So tell me bout' Christmas and the Election! Gotta tell ya bout a story about a man named McCain! Ain't votin' for him no how, I'll be votin' for Huck-a beeeee! Then Tuesday came and the old coot got nominated and hooked up with Sarah Palin, now Jim said "She looks mighty fine and her daughter's soon-to-be will have em' all a flailin'!!!!! It's the Dobson Christmas Season! Yee Haw!!!!!!!
November 17, 2008

2:51 p.m.

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cynical_one writes:

60s4ever writes:

"Jesus loves those who say "Merry Christmas". He also loves those who say "Happy Holidays". I will shop at stores that say either."

Good post. For people that claim to worship Jesus, the Focus on your Family group sure doesn't understand the teachings of the man.
November 17, 2008

2:53 p.m.

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BJG writes:

Maybe it's time we did a little thinking for ourselves. I know, I know that means reading and turning off the TV and talk radio for a few hours and actually develop a few thoughts of our own. This is a nation of 300 million people and we will never fully agree on anything, that's the beauty of this nation. We do need to agree on a few basic rules like freedom of speech. Mr. Dobson has the right to publish his Christmas (Holiday) list. And those who disagree have the right to ignore his recommendations.
November 17, 2008

2:59 p.m.

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NeilT writes:

But, but, but...

It's so much easier to buy into the FOF ideology/agenda, because Dobson already did all the thinking for me. Why reinvent the wheel? Dobson thought everything through, I just have to follow what he says.
November 17, 2008

3:20 p.m.

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McGowdog writes:

Who's gonna go into the kitchen and fix me Pot Pie?!!!!!!!
November 17, 2008

3:28 p.m.

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NeilT writes:

Well, according to Dobson, your wifes place is in the kitchen.
November 17, 2008

3:29 p.m.

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pete10000ft writes:

FOF are nut jobs.
November 17, 2008

3:46 p.m.

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McGowdog writes:

Ole Dobson must have had mixed feelings when voting for McCain/Palin then huh?

You know? Mixed feelings. That's like when you see your ex muther-in-law backing off a cliff in your favorite sports car.
November 17, 2008

3:50 p.m.

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blu_boi writes:

Here are the stores I will be shopping at this Winter's Solstice.

FOF naughty list stores:

American Eagle
Banana Republic
Bloomingdale's
Lane Bryant
Old Navy

FOF sort of naughty list stores:

Barnes & Noble
Bed, Bath & Beyond
Best Buy
Borders
Circuit City
GAP
KB Toys
Kmart
Toys "R" Us

I will also avoid any item made outside the USA.
November 17, 2008

3:59 p.m.

Suggest removal

sarge writes:

Check out these posts from Pete10000ft, McGowdog, and Neilt. Is any of this relevant to the subject. Do these fit the saying: "a goose firing by moonlight"? I am amazed at such depth of thought!!!!
November 17, 2008

4:01 p.m.

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cabodvr writes:

sarge:

Too bad you didn't see fit to follow your mother's advice.
November 17, 2008

4:10 p.m.

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thebrokenforum writes:

Hey sarge:

Go buy a blow-up doll for some of that extra hot air you have, buddy. ;)

http://brokenswordpublications.com/
November 17, 2008

4:22 p.m.

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McGowdog writes:

Shame on my relavance and nonetopicidness on page 59thousand-hundred on a RMN chat forum! Byte me Sarge!

Oh, and in the order of not being a hijacking troll, here's some relavance:

""blu_boi writes:

Here are the stores I will be shopping at this Winter's Solstice.

FOF naughty list stores:
...... blah blah blah!

I will also avoid any item made outside the USA.""

So Walmart is on the Nice list! Bet that stuff's made in Ohio!
November 17, 2008

4:38 p.m.

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mrwiizrd writes:

McGowdog:

It's a turkey pot pie, the devil is in the details ya know.
November 17, 2008

4:39 p.m.

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cynical_one writes:

sarge writes:

"Check out these posts from Pete10000ft, McGowdog, and Neilt. Is any of this relevant to the subject. Do these fit the saying: "a goose firing by moonlight"? I am amazed at such depth of thought!!!!"

So sarge, what's the difference between a religious community, like FoF or New Life Church, and a cult?
November 17, 2008

5:16 p.m.

Suggest removal

lastdance writes:

sarge-"Be careful what you say, because others will be able to discover how "stupid" you are when you begin talking"

Dang man, that's ice cold! Well that's one way stress the importance of a good education.

***News flash*** if you actual determine where you buy Christmas gifts based on what words a company uses or does not use during advertisements then you have too much money. I guess I have no room to talk; I usually look for a specific word when I shop too. It just happens to be a different one called-"sale"
November 17, 2008

5:47 p.m.

Suggest removal

navymom writes:

"Twas the night before the holiday..." What holiday Daddy? I don't know, son, because everyone says that we must only acknowledge "holiday".

"...and all through the house not a creature was stirring, not even a mouse." Why wasn't the mouse stirring, Daddy? It was sleeping because traps were outlawed through the efforts of PETA. You don't have to worry; the little mouse was safe.

"The stockings were hung by the chimney with care in hopes that St. Nicholas..." Oops, I forgot to drop the Saint part, son. Those types of references offend people these days.

"But I heard him exclaim, ere he drove out of sight-
Happy Holiday to all, and to all a good night." Daddy, I sure like it when we celebrate "Happy Holiday."
November 17, 2008

6:14 p.m.

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drkenne writes:

The catholic church did subvert the pagan's winter celebration in order to convert them. The winter solstice represents the awakening of the sun, since the day begins to get longer once again...birth of the sun. Hmmm...

Most pagan holidays were also subverted by the catholic church in order to convert (brainwash) the peoples of those eras. To quote "It has served us well, this myth of Christ" allegedly uttered by Pope Leo X in the 16th century.

Tell me why is the FOF even relevant???
November 17, 2008

6:45 p.m.

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Shaupeen writes:

Um, sarge, you do understand that telling people how to think on a thread where people obviously don't like being told how to think (or, where to shop) is rather silly, right? Sarge? Hello? Is someone else thinking for you, old buddy?
November 17, 2008

7:11 p.m.

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cynical_one writes:

navymom writes:

" "Twas the night before the holiday..." What holiday Daddy? I don't know, son, because everyone says that we must only acknowledge "holiday"."

If you knew anything about the history of your religion you would know that Easter used to be the Spring Equinox and Christmas used to be the Winter Solstice.

Try looking beyond the Bible for your knowledge.
November 17, 2008

7:14 p.m.

Suggest removal

cynical_one writes:

drkenne writes:

"Tell me why is the FOF even relevant???"

One word: Cash. They have lots of cash and that inflates their ego so they think that the rest of us give a crap. I just wish the government would realize that FoF is nothing more than a corporation that should be taxed.
November 17, 2008

7:54 p.m.

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nicktaste writes:

rmn wont let me post the list, so i will post it anyway
November 17, 2008

7:58 p.m.

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nicktaste writes:

here is the junk list

http://www.citizenlink.org/content/A0...
November 17, 2008

8:25 p.m.

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cynical_one writes:

nicktaste writes:

"here is the junk list

http://www.citizenlink.org/content/A0...

Only 33 stores? With all the money and time they have to waste and all they could come up with is 33 stores?

Damn, who they ask to make the list? Sarah Palin?
November 17, 2008

11:18 p.m.

Suggest removal

peterpi writes:

nicktaste,
Thanks for the heads up! My partner and I often shop at Best Buy, Circuit City, Barnes & Noble, and Borders. I think we'll continue to patronize them. We'll even let them know we appreciate them saying "Happy Holidays!"
She's Christian. I'm Jewish.
Happy Holidays, everyone!
November 17, 2008

11:44 p.m.

Suggest removal

primafacie writes:

"Xmas is a hoax. It's a modern day marketing scheme aimed at squeezing as many dollars out of you as it can.

The date was actually chosen by the Romans to coincide with their solar festivals that were held on...(wait for it) Dec. 25! Whoo!"

And mostly it's fun, a good day with people I love, plenty of great food and pleasant music. Oh, and sharing trinkets purchased from stores that may or may not pass muster with some religion-based advocacy group.

Lighten up, Francis.
November 18, 2008

6:28 a.m.

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blu_boi writes:

Christians claim December 25th as their sacred day, they claim marriage as their sacred union, they claim the United States as a christian nation, they claim abortion as their sacred cause, they tell us that all children are the children of (their) god, they have taken control of the Republican party and the christian warriors are now taking control of our military so they can fight christian holy wars, they put their god on our money and their god in our pledge, they are writing our laws and dictating our foreign policy, they claim that everything came into existence in a 6 day period some 6,000 years ago and that man was made from dirt and woman was made from man…
November 18, 2008

9:38 a.m.

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sarge writes:

I have checked in to view posts, and I see most of the ones related to my last comment either think their posts are related to subject, or do prove my point about "firing by moonlight". I do not believe any of these people would be eligible for a spot on a debating team. Spouting inane insults further proves my point about deep thinkers.
November 20, 2008

2:41 p.m.

Suggest removal

CEEW writes:

How sad that every time I read these 'blogs' that is full of people calling christians 'hateful' or 'bigots', and yet they are the ones sounding hateful. Why do people lower themselves to childish behaviour by talking rudely and acting ignorant. They are busy belittling christians for standing up for what they believe in. Isn't that what other religions do? I hear about their 'propaganda' all the time, but it doesn't mean I have to agree or listen, but I don't need to act rude either. Isn't this what the gay community is doing as well? I don't agree with their lifestyle, but I love the individuals for who they are. How is it that every other religion or group known to society can stand up for what they believe in and be heard. But heaven forbid should it be a christian. Christians know that the date of christmas is pagan. So what if FOF put out a list? They are standing up for what they believe in LIKE EVERYONE ELSE!!! Seriously.....
November 20, 2008

8:30 p.m.

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Jeremiah writes:

There is a classic song that includes everyone...

Oh, there's no place like home for the holidays,
'Cause no matter how far away you roam,
When you pine for the sunshine of a friendly gaze,
For the holidays, you can't beat home sweet home...

Home › News › Local News

Focus on the Family puts retailers on Christmas naughty, nice list

By Mark Barna, The Gazette

Published November 16, 2008 at 4:01 p.m.

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