ROSEN: Excused from the bandwagon

By Mike Rosen, Rocky Mountain News (Contact)

Published November 14, 2008 at 12:05 a.m.

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November 14, 2008

6:43 a.m.

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Michael writes:

I wonder just how far this intolerance will go. Obama has not even taken the oath of office yet and the demands from the left to not criticize or offer anything negative are building. I am one that will hold off on any direct criticism until I see how it starts to play out in 2009. As with Rosen, I disagree with almost every stance that Obama has on foreign policy, national defense, domestic issues, economic issues, and social issues. How far will the far-left be able to drag him, or will he go willingly? If the first things that come from a new Obama Administration are hyper-partisan legislation on hot button issues (union card check or Fairness Doctrine), appointments of left-wing demagogues to cabinet posts, immediate reversal of all or many of the Bush Executive Orders, and an unwillingness to include the GOP in making policy and law on energy, the economy, Iraq & Afghanistan, and other key issues, then I will know that all the talk about being "bi-partisan" and wanting to reach across the aisle was a crock of sh*# and Obama is not to be trusted. And the criticism and letters shall begin to encourage 4 years of obstructionism at it's best to prevent this country from veering off the left-wing cliff.
November 14, 2008

6:53 a.m.

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LetsThink writes:

God bless Mr. Rosen.

He is the rare conservative voice (only once a week) that we have in the Rocky Mountain News.

Whereas nearly every day, we are indoctrinated by Littwin, Griego, Johnson, Stein, etc. etc. etc.

Why would Safossen want to silence the one conservative voice???

Conservatives also subscribe to this newspaper (though less every year), pay the editors salaries, and deserve 'fair and balanced' editorials.

Do the liberal bloggers agree that bringing balance and fairness to the RMN is the right thing to do?
November 14, 2008

7:13 a.m.

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VeryOpinionated writes:

Lets Think, unfortunately, I've sensed that both sides (not everyone, mind you) like to be in an echo chamber, where they only see like-minded posts, and/or they "flame" posters that represent a differing view. Not everyone is like this, but as long as this immature behavior continues, little gets accomplished by sensible posts that question the messages and don't "flame" the messengers.
November 14, 2008

7:39 a.m.

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rushrulesbaby writes:

I'll bet that safossen@****.com still takes sneak-peeks at the Rocky headlines as he goes by the newspaper stand! I am getting sick of reading about people getting on the bandwagon or in this case the Obamawagon. Thanks for your column Rosen!!!!
November 14, 2008

7:48 a.m.

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ILoveChipotle writes:

Great column Mike, I have to disagree with you on one point - I would not consider the Denver Post a quality paper.
November 14, 2008

7:59 a.m.

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taoistblockhead writes:

How convenient for Rosen and his conservative followers to want to ignore the last 28 years of failed Republican ideology, as well as the last 8 years of a criminal cabal that brought this country to its knees.

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20081201...

“The more details emerge, the clearer it becomes that Washington's handling of the Wall Street bailout is not merely incompetent. It is borderline criminal. ……"

“When transferring power from a functional, trustworthy regime, everyone favors a smooth transition. When exiting an era marked by criminality and bankrupt ideology, a little rockiness at the start would be a very good sign.”

The psychopathic Bush-Cheney Kleptocracy – an administration of liars, thieves, war criminals, and traitors to the United States Constitution… Bush and Cheney need to be tried in The Hague and put behind bars.

The Republican Party – Corporate Socialism propagandized by pathetic fearmongers like Limbaugh, Hannity, Beck, Caplis, Rosen, etc.

The natural endpoint of 28 years of trickle-down conservatism intent on full-spectrum dominance - Paulson’s 3-page ransom note, Bush’s war based on lies, Cheney’s rule by fear and contempt for the Constitution, the arrogance and stupidity of the Project for the New American Century, and the empty smears and horse manure emanating from partisan talk show hacks paid to carry the water.

Priceless and a stain on America’s soul - George Bush leaving office as the worst president in this nation’s history.
November 14, 2008

8:15 a.m.

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Ofearghail writes:

Jeesh, blockhead... now that your side has the power, I can just feel the love already. What a fine example you are of "bringing everyone together." People like you are why it can never happen.
November 14, 2008

8:21 a.m.

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Elwood writes:

I would have rather had Paulson's 3 page bill approved instead of the pork ladden 400 page bill that did get passed.
November 14, 2008

9:01 a.m.

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Marshdale writes:

Mike; for once I actually agree with you in the sense that you are an opinion writer and your job is to do just that and not be beholding to anybody for what you write. However, your opinion still stinks and you are still a little Napoleanic pest.
November 14, 2008

9:14 a.m.

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tromiano writes:

I stopped buying the News when it entered into the goofy Joint Operating Agreement with the Post. Apparently, according to safossen@whatever.com, I would have been justified for doing so because I can't stand the liberal rhetoric spewed by Campos and Littwin...
November 14, 2008

9:29 a.m.

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INC writes:

ROSEN,
Ideally the "leaning" left or right of any column should never happen. the truth should be what is utmost. "straight up" should be the Ideal.
although this is difficult at times, it indeed should be striven for.

Now I can relate as to not "jumping on" the conservative band wagon when Bush jr. was selected. as their was never an invitation to do so. but for the good of our country. I would invite you to do so. I do not agree with all of your opinions, they are yours. you are entitled.
I would only like to express to you and other conservatives. Your vision of what America is and how great it can be is indeed limited in conservative ideology.

If the current wholesale plundering of the federal treasury does not convince you of how much of a failure republicanism is, then nothing will. Looting the federal treasury is as UN-American as it comes.

American patriotism is inclusive to all! That is the bandwagon you are invited to join in.
November 14, 2008

9:42 a.m.

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ILoveChipotle writes:

INC - did you not read the article? "I didn't jump on the Bush bandwagon, but for the "good of the country" I think you should jump on the Obamawagon" Ha!

You think the bailouts are bad now, wait until Obama is in power. Republicans are thankfully going to block the bailout of detroit, but the lefties and Obama are going to try to push it through because they are indebted to the unions who donated so much money to their campaign.
November 14, 2008

10:14 a.m.

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Cicero writes:

Safossen exhibits a common trait of the Left - intolerance of other points of view.

In the news we see gay activists trampling on the free speech rights of others, because of how the vote went on the gay marriage ban.

Diversity of opinion is rare on most college campuses. It is not unusual for the occasional conservative speaker to be abused.

There is talk of reviving the Fairness Doctrine in broadcasting, as a way to stifle commentators like Mike Rosen and Rush Limbaugh.

After Obama, Pelosi, Reid & Co. get going next year, watch for more moves to limit politically incorrect speech.
November 14, 2008

10:22 a.m.

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Michael writes:

INC - Columns are opinion pieces by nature and can be from any perspective. There is no truth required in opinion, it is optional. News is another story and that is where "straight up" should be the goal. So on that point I think you are wrong.
Conservative ideology does not limit what what America can be. It recognizes historically proven truths that have proven to be failures and demands that we not waste time and money going there again. I will concede that sometimes it is slow to change, but that is it's nature. If liberalism means that we try anything and everything until something works, than I am glad to be a conservative.
The current looting of the Treasury is not a conservative ideal or belief. Take a look at who actually voted for this and the record speaks volumes on conservative ideology. Pres Bush owns this though, but just because he has an R after his name does not make this mess and the solution a conservative only problem.
BTW - This "plundering" of the Treasury to prop up the markets, create jobs, and stimulate the economy comes directly from the FDR New Deal playbook. It has liberalism written all over it. So if you don't like what's goin' on, look at history for where this solution really originated from. And if you are that upset with this $1 TRILLION solution how do you feel about the $6 - $8 TRILLION that has been spent (redistributed) since LBJ and the liberals from the 60s initiated their War on Poverty and the poverty rate in % terms is about the same? How big of a failure is that?
November 14, 2008

11:42 a.m.

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jay writes:

i think it is truly telling of rosen's and his followers' irrelevancy in these modern times when the first comment to his latest article starts with a strawman argument.

"I wonder just how far this intolerance will go. Obama has not even taken the oath of office yet and the demands from the left to not criticize or offer anything negative are building"

absolutely brilliant. no one is saying that you not criticize or offer anything "negative" about the new folks in congress and in the white house.

it would be nice, however, if rosen and his followers criticized the actual policy platform offered by the democrats, instead of ones they just pulled from their southern orifices.

case in point...rosen spews that his column last week "was a clinical assessment of the direction I thought an Obama administration and a Democratic Congress would likely take given their ideological inclinations and the influence of the party's activist left wing"

which is to say that his column was a collection of opinions about conspiracy theories he'd developed while choosing to remain willfully ignorant of obama's stated policy platform in lieu of pontificating about what "could" happen if the party's extremists were given the keys to the castle.

which is obviously and pathetically ridiculous.

he follows this with yet another in a long line of strawman arguments:

"As to the substance of safossen's complaint, the reason I haven't jumped on the Obama "bandwagon" is that I, along with about 58 million other Americans who voted for McCain or someone else, don't necessarily agree with Obama's vision and his overall platform."

safossen's email didn't mention "obama's" bandwagon at all.

she said:

"Why don't you get on the bandwagon of what you can do for this country in these hard times instead of knock things down"

what you can do for the country. ask not....and all that. not really the same thing is it?

not even close.

you can disagree with obama's policy platform and still be supportive of your country in a myriad of ways.

maybe that's lost on mike as he tries to justify his partisan rantings here at the rocky and pad his ego at the same time:

"I make more from a few days of radio or a speech or two than from a year of column writing"

wow.

after all that fluff, he actually closes with one more strawman argument:

"Unlike the obsessive Bush-haters of the last eight years, I don't despise the man."

i don't know anyone who actually "hates" bush.

you can be critical of terrible policy decisions that have failed this country and not "hate" anyone, can't you mike?

i ,once again, am at a loss as to why the rocky continues to give the stooges from the independence institute such prominent places on the pages of their newspaper. there are many intelligent conservatives out there without lobbyist ties that could write much more relevant, much more cogent pieces than hacks like rosen and kopel.
November 14, 2008

11:48 a.m.

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VeryOpinionated writes:

Jay said: "...there are many intelligent conservatives out there without lobbyist ties that could write much more relevant, much more cogent pieces than hacks like rosen and kopel."

Could you give us a couple examples of conservatives that meet your criteria?
November 14, 2008

12:13 p.m.

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radagan writes:

The difference is Rosen's editorials are marked as "opinion" whereas much of the so-called liberal biased "news" they pretend to report is not. At this point, I'm not sure where someone can get actual objective and accurate news anymore. Why bother buying a newspaper for news when you can't trust most of it anymore? Same for most tv and radio news shows.
November 14, 2008

12:25 p.m.

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ILoveChipotle writes:

Jay - if Rosen said 2 + 2 = 4, you would have some kind of complaint about how strawman addition is irrelevent, the independence institute must have funded this, and republicans are responsible for this problem. Does it get tiring writing the same complaints every week (because it is reading it)? Or do you just copy and paste from week to week?
November 14, 2008

1:20 p.m.

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jay writes:

i'm not sure why you're confused about the specific points i made pertaining to this article, chipotle.

where did i lose you?

which strawman argument is eluding your understanding?
November 14, 2008

1:22 p.m.

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primafacie writes:

"i don't know anyone who actually "hates" bush."

I do.
November 14, 2008

1:57 p.m.

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ILoveChipotle writes:

I'm not confused, you just make the same arguments week after week after week after week after week.
November 14, 2008

2:08 p.m.

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jay writes:

how could i, burrito? rosen didn't write these new strawman arguments until this week.

surely you're not acknowledging that rosen uses strawman arguments to prop up his pathetically weak positions on a nearly weekly basis...are you?
November 14, 2008

5:35 p.m.

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MUC writes:

Jay's word of the day... strawman...let's say it over and over for Jay since he likes to use it alot.
November 14, 2008

7:57 p.m.

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mmannino writes:

jay,

Your head must be in the sand if you are not aware of the legions of Bush haters. There are many Bush haters right in this forum. To many on the left, a disagreement on policy is criminal. The left disagrees with Bush's policy on Iraq. The left calls him a war criminal. The policy issue about the war on Iraq simply cannot be debated by the left. They scream and yell insults and obscene gestures.

Did the left call Bill Clinton a war criminal for his vicious attack on Yugoslavia? That conflict was vehemently opposed by many countries. Yugoslavia was absolutely no threat to us. The UN never gave approval for Yugoslavia. No approval was ever sought. No conservative called Bill Clinton a war criminal. Many conservatives disagreed with Clinton's decision but we did not give aid and confort to our enemies in our criticism.
November 14, 2008

10:20 p.m.

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taoistblockhead writes:

George Bush and Richard Cheney are both war criminals. They began their administration by allowing 9/11 to happen, lied America into an illegal war in Iraq, and to complete their eight years of murder and criminality they presided over the biggest theft of money from the American taxpayers in the history of the United States. What's taken place in the last eight years is nothing less than the destruction of America by the real terrorists sitting in the White House.
November 14, 2008

10:58 p.m.

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RB writes:

I for one did not realize that republic’s were capable of "feelings" towards anything, “Mike Rosen, Excused from the bandwagon, November 14th, 2008”. For example, Mr. Rosen says, “…I do this, write his column, as a labor of love…” Wow! I have been lead to believe over the past twelve years, that we “feeling” Democrats were something out of a horror novel. To hear that Mr. Rosen has feelings is quite the surprise! I mean, my God! Why would any country, invade another sovereign nation who did not antagonize nor attack the U.S.A. if, such a country or the invading country, did not have feelings regarding the death of human life such an action would take? Feelings? I was chastised due to my opposition to the invasion rather than, displayed through behavior of my fellow American’s, such hatred and disrespect to the choice of political party. I was degraded for “feeling”. Now, Rosen steps up and declares he has “feelings” while he chastises me for umpteen years for having “feelings”? I am too happy to deliver the following message to Mr. Rosen after all these years regarding feelings. Take your feelings Mr. Rosen and stuff them where the sun does not shine! Perhaps, you can understand where I am coming from because, it has been your republic party who has communicated the same message to the Democratic Party for the past twelve years. So, how does it feel?
November 14, 2008

11:35 p.m.

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Eli writes:

"there are many intelligent conservatives out there without lobbyist ties that could write much more relevant, much more cogent pieces than hacks like rosen and kopel."

I'm with VeryOpinionated on this, jay. What conservative(s) would you like to see a column by in Rocky Mountain News? It's not a sarcastic question at all, I'm honestly interested to know.
November 14, 2008

11:45 p.m.

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mmannino writes:

taoistblockhead,

To be consistent, you should label Bill Clinton and Al Gore as war criminals also. They allowed numerous terrorist acts in the United States and conducted an illegal war in Yugoslavia. They also bombed innocent aspirin factories and presided over looting by many corporations. You could also say that the previous eight years were nothing less than the destruction of America by the real terrorists sitting in the White House.
November 15, 2008

6:44 a.m.

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diggtbks writes:

This article was another well placed shot by Mike over the bow of the good ship "Obama".

Obama has been elected!!! Obama has been elected!

Why isn't everyone cheering??
November 15, 2008

7:21 a.m.

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VeryOpinionated writes:

taoistblockhead, your 10:20 PM rant is nothing but debunked old lies circulated by the far left about Bush/Cheney. With posts like that one, you become the laughing stock of those that care about facts, regardless of where the blame falls.
November 15, 2008

9:14 a.m.

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taoistblockhead writes:

In The Public Interest - Restoring the Constitution

http://www.votenader.org/blog/2008/11...

"Barack Obama is receiving lots of advice from many people these days about the collapse of Wall Street, the sinking economy and the quagmire wars he will inherit from the Bush regime. However, there is one important matter that he alone can address with his legal training and the sworn oath he will take on January 20 to uphold the Constitution. That phenomenon is the systemic, chronic lawlessness and criminality of the Bush/Cheney regime which he must unravel and stop.

"To handle this immense responsibility as President, he needs to bring together a volunteer task force of very knowledgeable persons plus wise, retired civil servants to inventory the outlaw workings of this rogue regime.

"Much is already known and documented officially and by academic studies and media reporting. In the category of "high crimes and misdemeanors", are (1) the criminal war/occupation of Iraq, (2) systemic torture as a White House policy, (3) arrests of thousands of Americans without charges or habeas corpus rights, (4) spying on large numbers of Americans without judicial warrants and (5) hundreds of signing statements by George W. Bush declaring that, he of the unitary presidency, will decide whether to obey the enacted bills or not.

"To its everlasting credit, the conservative American Bar Association sent to President Bush three reports in 2005-2006 concluding that he has been engaged in continuing serious violations of the Constitution. This is no one-time Watergate obstruction of justice episode ala Nixon that led to his resignation just before his impeachment in the House of Representatives. ……"
November 15, 2008

9:30 a.m.

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p_myers661 writes:

Count me among the skeptics who will not jump on Obama's bandwagon (OK Rocky when are you going to inclue Obama's name in your spell checker as a real entry and not flag it? He is going to be the President. Stop acting like a fool and fix this!) until he shows that he intends to serve as the President of all the people. Bush went overboard in this respect and destroyed his credibility with conservatives while not gaining one thing from liberals, not even a moment's respect.

Obama has potential. Nothing he has done in his life shows that he has a clue what to do now. So we wait. I know that Jay, among others, is terribly impatient with us. We are supposed to take on faith that Obama, after strarting his tax increases on people making over 250K and progressively lowering it, will do the right thing. We don't know yet.

Will he bail out the auto industry and thus repay his union helpers (thugs) who spent so much of their members money getting him elected? Will he take Paulsen by the scruff of the neck and throw his so far away that we never see the squirt again before nominating someone who will carry out the bailout, which shouldn't have happened, by doing what we were told it would do? Specifically, buying assets that were too risky for the banks to keep and then managing them to produce either a profit or at least produce some return. Why the big change to just handing the money over and hoping good will come of it? I'm against such stupidity. I hope Obama is too. We don't know.

Matter of fact. Those are the current best three words to describe Obama, especially since he scrubbed his website last week.

We don't know.

We will find out. Just hope any surprises are pleasant ones for the country.

I'm a strong conservative. I voted against him and am hoping he turns out to do just what he promised. If he does, conservatives will take back both Congress and the Presidency within 4 years. If he does what is best for the country instead, then we all win, although conservatives will have to wait longer. Liberals had to wait 14 years after Clinton jumped the shark. Obama has a shorter time period to satisfy the people.

The majority of those he must satisfy are on the left, not the looney left, they will never be satisfied, but on the regular left. If he does well, he will be, as I continue to say, the Reagan of the Democratic Party and will be available for many things including a Supreme Court appointment later in his life. If he is Carter 2.0, then we conservatives get another easy win if we stay true.

In the meantime, Obama is my President. I wish him well.
November 15, 2008

10:39 a.m.

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Brain writes:

p_myers661; I agree, I hope for our countries sake that our new president will do well; I don't have much confidence in him but we will see.
The left never fail to amaze me in how partisan they are; I thought they're supposed to be the "tolerant/open minded" side? They certainly don't often demonstrate that.
November 15, 2008

2:13 p.m.

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Eli writes:

"(OK Rocky when are you going to inclue Obama's name in your spell checker as a real entry and not flag it? He is going to be the President. Stop acting like a fool and fix this!)"

It has nothing to do with the Rocky, p_myers. It's your web browser. If you're using Firefox, click tools, then options, then advanced. You can turn the spell checker on or off there...I don't think you can add words to it though.
November 17, 2008

7:26 a.m.

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robijedi writes:

Mike, I for one certainly hope that you can stay on at the Rocky in order to balance the decline of the “funney papers” in same.
Robi
November 17, 2008

9:01 a.m.

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jay writes:

"I voted against him and am hoping he turns out to do just what he promised. If he does, conservatives will take back both Congress and the Presidency within 4 years"

i'm not sure what you're talking about here, p.

you may have to elaborate on what you think obama needs to accomplish in just 4 years before the next elections in order to maintain dem majorities....particularly considering the huge, gaping hole the country was left in by the republicans....
November 17, 2008

9:36 a.m.

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rjnova writes:

Your keene insight, analysis and writing Mike would be sorely missed by me if you chose not to publish in the RMN. Even though the RMN leans left you should read the STL Post, which I stopped some years ago for the WSJ. Without you and Carroll we would be innundated with the leftist/liberal jibberish propaganda as espounded by the likes of Littwin, safossen, jay, taoistblockhead, et. al.
November 18, 2008

9:25 a.m.

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MPinAurora writes:

"Unlike the obsessive Bush-haters of the last eight years, I don't despise the man."

Mike, care to comment on the obsessive Clinton-haters in the eight years previous to that? I supposed they were justified simply because they share your view.

For what it's worth, most MODERATE progressives like myself do not hate the man. We don't know him, and neither do you. I do disagree with many of his policies and feel as though he has in some ways abused his power. Like Clinton before him, I think he has diminished the integrity of the office.
November 18, 2008

7:12 p.m.

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ollie writes:

No excuse for preaching divisevness and hate. Go away Rosen.
November 19, 2008

11:25 a.m.

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Wallacat writes:

ollie and safossen are clearly illogical people that aren't very nice. It is hardly worth Rosen's editorial space to respond. Rosen missed the mark here. Focus on the stuff that matters.

Home › Opinion › Opinion Columns & Blogs

ROSEN: Excused from the bandwagon

By Mike Rosen, Rocky Mountain News (Contact)

Published November 14, 2008 at 12:05 a.m.

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