Sick calls hit DPS over stalled contract talks
Unsigned fliers in city schools urge 'job actions'
By Nancy Mitchell, Rocky Mountain News (Contact)
Published May 27, 2008 at 3:25 p.m.
Not a single classroom teacher showed up for work at a northwest Denver school on Tuesday, an apparent "sickout" staged by teachers upset over stalled contract talks.
All 16 classroom teachers plus the music teacher and a librarian called in sick, forcing Debra Lucero Kraft, principal of Academia Ana Marie Sandoval, to scramble to cover classes at the bilingual Montessori elementary school.
"I didn't have any warning," Kraft said. "I don't know what the goal is, so I can't really speak to whether or not that accomplished their goal. . . . (But) I'm not sure if leaving your students without a teacher is a way to address contract negotiations."
Substitute teachers were found for all but five classes, so Kraft pulled in other staff members - the administrative assistant, the psychologist, the literacy coach - to cover those. She also combined some smaller classes.
In northeast Denver, 12 of the 30 teachers at McGlone Elementary called in sick Tuesday. Principal Ann Alley-Walker said subs were found for all 12 classrooms.
"I have heard on the grapevine that they're doing it randomly at different schools," Alley-Walker said. "We have a sub in every classroom, so we really lucked out."
A secretary at Amesse Elementary in northeast Denver, rumored to be hit Tuesday, said no teachers were absent. Principal Joyce Simmons could not be reached for comment.
DPS Superintendent Michael Bennet said the district will look at whether teachers are abusing their sick leave. He was not aware of any significant teacher absences at any other school.
Bennet criticized the "political action" at Sandoval, saying, "I think everyone's time would be better spent making sure our kids finish the year well."
The last day for most DPS students is Thursday, while teachers wrap up the year Friday.
Kim Ursetta, president of the Denver Classroom Teachers Association, denied the union is encouraging teachers to call in sick.
She also denied any involvement in a flier circulating in city schools that urges "Denver Teachers Unite" in job actions, including "Sick Outs."
Other actions urged are "Park Outs" - parking outside the school parking lot - as well as wearing black, walking in and out of school together, and "Anything that demonstrates UNITY!"
On the back of the unsigned flier is a cartoon of Bennet beside a gravestone bearing the name of the district-union contract.
"I've never seen that flier," Ursetta said. "We want to get back to the bargaining table."
Talks between DPS and the union broke down May 16, largely over how much to change the revolutionary teacher pay plan known as ProComp.
DPS wants to pay teachers more early in their careers, proposing an average raise of $9,000 for teachers this fall and an average starting salary of $44,000.
Ursetta calls the proposal a "radical" departure from ProComp, the nation's first large merit pay plan for teachers, which was approved by voters in 2005.
Alley-Walker said she hopes the job action doesn't cause division among her staff members.
"People need to do what they feel they should do," she said. "It's a concern that we need to put kids first, but I still think everybody had that right. For the teachers who did come . . . the other teachers should not chastise them."
mitchelln@RockyMountainNews.com or 303-954-5245
May 27, 2008
3:39 p.m.
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Scott writes:
Obviously these "caring" "educators" are ONLY thinking of the children. Yeh, sure they are ... NOT!
Scott
May 27, 2008
3:43 p.m.
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jacka writes:
Vote YES on Amendment 47, check Big Union's anti-education stances at the door.
CEA (Colorado Education Association - the teachers union) works hard to fight against competition and advancing Colorado's educational performance, while collecting fat paychecks and big state budget payments.
Michael Bennet can coast to a US Senate seat or the Colorado Governorship IF he can break the union.
May 27, 2008
3:55 p.m.
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smith writes:
Fire them All!
May 27, 2008
3:56 p.m.
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ISKIFREELY writes:
For people who only work 9 months a year, teachers sure do complain a lot.
May 27, 2008
3:58 p.m.
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Shaggy writes:
If I were Principal Debra Lucero Kraft I would be looking for 16 new Teachers and a Music Teacher and Librarian.
Thats a bunch of crap..I would fire everyone of these teachers regardless of their academia.
You don't do this to your Principal or kids.
All this does is reinforce into the kids that if you don't get your way to pout about it and create a hardship until you get what you want.
May 27, 2008
4:04 p.m.
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daryl13 writes:
....and Bill Ritter assures us that the soon-to-be unionized state employees can't strike, by law. Perhaps he's forgotten about these types of sick-outs, blue flu, etc.
May 27, 2008
4:07 p.m.
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bxwatso writes:
Smith & Shaggy: You can't fire government employees, especially union ones. I can't imagine you don't know that.
May 27, 2008
4:09 p.m.
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timeandagain writes:
Nice coincidence they managed a 4-day weekend out of the deal! Remember, those that "can" do and those that "can't" teach.
May 27, 2008
4:17 p.m.
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JCS1958 writes:
Actually, in the long run I hold DPS responsible for these problems.
For decades that district has done it's best to rid itself of the smarter and better qualified teachers. I have seen so many GOOD teachers leave the district for better jobs, at a higher rate than in public education in general. What you end up with is a few teachers that are teaching for the love of teaching, and many that do it as the best job they can get. Truthfullym it isn't really a great job.
Classes at Denver public schools are taught mainly by intelectually inferior educators that can't do better elsewhere. A few are dedicated, but they are in the minority.
I am of the opinion that you cannot pay a good teacher too much. Who wants to put the education of thier children in the hands of the lowest bidder? But by doing just that Denver has dumbed down the school system. I sometime suspect it has gone far beyond any hope of repair.
We have seen the state struggling to meet minumum educational requirements in the last few years. ANY good teacher would get to the business of teaching these kids what they need to know in that situation. Here in Denver they seem to just complain that it isn't fair that they should have to meet minumum standards like the rest of the world.
While I think that Denver is just followint a long tradition of damaging the relationship with the teachers that they have done since the 70's I am sbsolutely disgusted that these terrible teachers have put their interests above the welfare of the students they are supposedly there to educate.
I would give serious thought to pulling any children I had in DPS and putting them in private school. The money DPS saves in this contract negotiation is marginal, and temporary. The educational damage to your children could be permanent.
That being said it must also be recognized that there are STILL some excellent teachers in this district. But I fear that the low pay and underfunding (WHY are these teachers buying supplies with their own money?) I think you are going to loose them too.
May 27, 2008
4:19 p.m.
BMat writes:
(This comment was removed by the site staff.)
May 27, 2008
4:23 p.m.
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PI writes:
Any actions taken by teachers are not directed at the principle, but at the central administration, I applaud lucero craft for standing by her teachers, maybe the district should do the same and settle this mess before it gets uglier.
May 27, 2008
4:27 p.m.
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PI writes:
Also, all you union busting phonies should get off the computer and get a check written to John McSame while he's in town. He needs your support with his right wing, anti-public education pro-war agenda.
May 27, 2008
4:31 p.m.
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JCS1958 writes:
Earl an Jacka,
You think Denver teachers collect a fat paycheck? Your'e kidding, right?
Teaching in a public school is one of the lowest paying jobs you can get that requires a degree. They USED to make more than nurses, but I don't think that is true anymore.
It sounds more like you are tossing out those insults merely because you think that they sympathize with your (real or imagined) political opposition.
Or are you just anti teacher in general? "Education is bad." "Books are bad." Teaching interferes with doctrine."
If you are just anti-labor it might make a little more sense that you would try to paint public education teachers as rich fat cats. But then maybe you should stop and think what kind of people REALLY want to lower pay rates. Do you suppose any of them might actually be rich fat cats?
May 27, 2008
4:32 p.m.
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blacksho89 writes:
bxwatso:
Teachers are subject to one year contracts. They can't be easily "fired", but they can be "non-renewed".
May 27, 2008
4:35 p.m.
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BMat writes:
Is there a stronger argument in favor of VOUCHERS?
Just asking . . .
May 27, 2008
4:36 p.m.
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ladida writes:
Nice....it's all about the kids, right??? I'm tired of hearing teachers whining about their pay/benefits. If they don't like it, find another job...where you have to work 50 weeks a year and 10-12 hour days on a salaried basis...and have to continue getting higher degrees going to school part time to keep up or get ahead. Yeah, other people have the same problems teachers have...only we don't get 12 weeks off every year. waaaaaa
May 27, 2008
4:46 p.m.
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JCS1958 writes:
bxwatso - Who ever told you that you can't fire gummint employees or teachers? You can, but you need "just cause". Calling in sick one day isn't considered just cause. You can't really "prove" any intent behind it. It's just a "coincidence".
But I agree with the sentiment. If I were running the school, and it was a private school, I would be looking to completely re-staff the place.
When I was a student in DPS in the 60s there was a teacher strike(68 or 69?). It may be a sign of the difference in our generations that the teachers I knew at the time were VERY careful not to involve any students in the contract dispute. We can see that it wasn't an issue to them now.
I am not anti-union where it comes to teachers. But if there was ever an example of a bad employee hiding behind a union this is it.
May 27, 2008
4:48 p.m.
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CMike writes:
School marm dude - cute, very cute. Worthless, but cute.
I left DPS, I get paid more with better benefits, without labor strife, without an overly complex pay structure, and with less risk to my retirement.
To my free market friends, you can't brow-beat teachers to become more effective. The problem with urban education is multi-layered. In Massachusetts, they administered a high-stakes test for teachers, failure meant loss of license. When 20%+ failed, the state wondered how to replace them. They couldn't. If you want to increase the pool of candidates...if you want "better," more experienced, harder -working, professional teachers in DPS, stop brow-beating teachers and address the issues above.
DPS needs to earn some credibility here. Then, most teachers I know are flexible and willing to do anything to help their students. That's why we overwhelmingly approved Pro-Comp - because we were willing to try.
Finally, the smart principals I know stay out of this sort of fight.
May 27, 2008
4:52 p.m.
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Really writes:
Ahh yes, another year, another threatened teacher strike. What a bunch of cry babies... Don't worry you will have all summer off to plan your for the fall strike... This is becoming as routine as the annual homecoming dance or prom.. Idiots.
May 27, 2008
4:53 p.m.
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American100 writes:
Unemployment is on the rise.
Fire these teachers and replace them with someone who wants a job.
By the way, if you figure out how much they make per hours worked,plus insurance and paid vacation days,they do ok.
As it is DPS teachers have bad reputations based on performance of graduates.
May 27, 2008
4:53 p.m.
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timeandagain writes:
PI -
Who cares where the actions were "directed". The principal ends up with egg on her face, the children loose a day of education and the public develops a greater disdain for unions. That was VERY successful! Well done!
May 27, 2008
5:04 p.m.
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PI writes:
First off timeandagain, loose is how you describe something that is not firmly attached, lose is I believe what you were going for. This time of year the kids are already looking towards summer, how much real educating was being done in your last week of school at the Bonehead Anti-Union Propoganda Institute, was it at that point in the year where they drove home their curriculum of homophobic, racist, rich get richer 101, kill civilians in foreign countries for oil etc. Your boy John McSame needs you, catch him at DIA!!!!!
May 27, 2008
5:26 p.m.
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tata writes:
Hmmmm--a teacher dispute that doesn't effect students. It's sad, but no one pays attention otherwise. Wake up - the negotiations between DPS and the teachers effect all of us. Until Denver is ready to treat teachers like the professional, well educated workforce that they are this fight will only get uglier. I hope that my kids have teachers who are willing to stand up and fight for what they need instead of just caving every time that DPS stonewalls at the negotiating table.
May 27, 2008
5:30 p.m.
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WeloveDenverkids writes:
It makes me sad that teachers are feeling it necessary to take such drastic measures to be heard. Maybe we all need to go back and reexamine exactly how it is teachers ended up in this place.
Teachers at Sandoval are amazing. They are all bi-lingual and Montessori trained, they spend countless hours on committees and at school focusing on how to improve their performance (and they are not a low-performing school), and each one of them cares for children above and beyond the requirements of the job.
May 27, 2008
5:40 p.m.
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American100 writes:
Part of the problem WeLoveDeverKids is "They are all bi-lingual"
I'm going to copy my message from earlier:
I didn't speak a word of English when I started Kindergarten. There was NO English Emersion or bi-lingual program.
As a result I speak perfect, unaccented English, except sometimes people hear a slight, New York accent.
I have nieces in Miami who went into the bi-lingual program because my idiot step brother wanted them to "retain their culture."
As a result, they sound like they just got off the boat.
They don't speak English well or Spanish well.
DITCH ALL BI-LINGUAL PROGRAMS. IT STALLS THE KIDS!
May 27, 2008
5:50 p.m.
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natasha writes:
Wow PI very mature with the name calling and insults. How many sick days did your teachers take? Must have been the ones where thay taught manners and intelligent persuasive speech.
While I applaud the teachers for at least waiting to do this the last week of school which is mainly movie watching 101 anyway, I have to agree with previous posters that teachers make out pretty well for the number of days they work. They don't work 365 days or even 260, if they want more pay they could always work more days. The paraprofessionals are the ones who really get the shaft. They do the same jobs as teachers, in some cases they do the teachers jobs for them and make half as much money.
But money isn't really what this fight is about. It's the merit based pay they don't like. I think it's great, and it's realistic. The better teachers, whose students do better, should get more money.
May 27, 2008
5:59 p.m.
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tata writes:
If a few sick outs at schools can result in this much heated debate, imagine what a strike during the DNC will generate.
May 27, 2008
6:04 p.m.
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BMat writes:
WeloveDenverkids said of the Sandoval group, "They are all bi-lingual and Montessori trained, they spend countless hours on committees . . ."
It seems clear that someone is actually counting these hours after all. Namely the teachers you're defending count these hours. Hence they all felt compelled to call and lie about being sick today.
You can't call them countless hours if the teachers are willing to take back a portion of those hours from the kids they're there to help.
They could have used a vacation day, personal holiday or other absence today. But that would mean the teachers in a sense paid for their own day off. So they chose to lie to their employer about being sick and take the hours from the kids instead.
All this to prove how deserving and needy they are. No wonder our kids are confused.
It's just shameful.
May 27, 2008
6:06 p.m.
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wisdomwriter writes:
I believe in the purpose of unions, but I also beleive that the means they have for achieving their purpose are outdated and not applicable in the 21st century.
We all want teachers who are effective, who motivate, and who care about the future of our children. Unfortunately, the latest union actions show otherwise, and effectively diminish their negotiating power. Mr. Bennet is, as he has shown, committed to the success of all DPS students, and he will defeat any obstacle anyone puts in front of him to keep him from achieving his goal. The teacher's union is making a mistake by challenging him instead of working with him, and if they do not back off, they will soon realize their mistake.
Teachers remember: without kids you don't have a job, and administrators as well as parents are not going to compromise their children's future because you do not like your pay to be based on incentives related to your success on the job.
May 27, 2008
6:23 p.m.
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bowmanamy writes:
As a parent of kids at Marie Sandoval I support the teachers 100% I see the hours they give my kids and go above and beyond what they need to do. They have little support from the district and 0 support from the principal. The district has GOT to work with them. They have the most important job in the world as far as I am concerned.....they are educating my children and I thank them and will continue to be by them. I can only hope for the district to realize how important they are and give them a fair contract.
May 27, 2008
6:29 p.m.
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natasha writes:
BMat I don't know about DPS but our school district doesn't give sick days and personal days. We just get days.
May 27, 2008
6:39 p.m.
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American100 writes:
They DO have the most important job and they should remember that before they strike or call in sick when they are not.
It's just a bonus, I guess, if they speak fluent English.
May 27, 2008
6:49 p.m.
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Shaggy writes:
"Smith & Shaggy: You can't fire government employees, especially union ones."---- bxwatso
Excellent point...I do not know the validity of your statement or the circumstances behind a teacher Union, but if our Border Agents are Government Employees they can be fired indeed, even with out breaking the Law...Just ask Corey Voorhis.
Hell they fired him and took his Salary and health insurance away before he even went to court.
Evan Dryer, Ritters spokesman, said Corey was a "desperate criminal" before he had his day in court.
And guess who was behind trying to get him fired and imprisoned?
Yep...Bill Ritter.
And guess what was one of the first things Ritter did when he took office?
Yep...gave Unions stronger negotiating powers.
Kinda ironic isn't it?
May 27, 2008
6:58 p.m.
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timeandagain writes:
PI- My assumption is that you are an "educator"... Probably even at the school involved. May I suggest that you find a new line of work that doesn't involve children. You are one of the most bitter, disenchanted, angry, and spiteful people that I have seen on the RMN message boards - ever. It is frightening that I suspect you are charged shaping young minds. In addition, you should consider an occupation change merely for yourself. You cannot be happy with your life.
To the rest of the striking teachers: you have shamed yourselves, your school and your principal, Ms. Lucero.
Best of luck and enjoy your summer!
May 27, 2008
7:10 p.m.
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Vector049 writes:
If you had snotty, well-to-do soccer parents backed by carnivorous attorneys ready to jump on a teacher's every move you'd unionize too.
Since education begins in the home, you might start by turning off the television.
May 27, 2008
7:27 p.m.
Suggest removal
platoro79 writes:
Teachers can only be non-renewed in their first 3 years. After that you're stuck with them(contracted) unless the program they are qualified to teach is ended (also called RIF--reduction in force) or if they commit and are convicted of certain crimes such as child abuse.
May 27, 2008
7:28 p.m.
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WelcomebackKotter writes:
The district's offer of 2.2% on the traditional salary scale is below that of surrounding districts. That is not a commitment to be competitive as Michael Bennet proclaims. The "junior teachers" who leave at a rate 20 times higher than other age groups are primarily on this trad. scale, not Procomp, because it pays more. Bravo to McGlone and Sandoval for standing up for this huge inequality that is robbing Denver's kids of quality teachers. Bennet's concern is balancing the budget, not the care and development of our children. He will soon be gone because he is not really concerned with student achievement which is linked to experienced teaching, or the students of DPS. His only concern is his political future. DCTA teachers (2900) are the most devoted, passionate group of teachers you will find. They are also the quality teachers of Denver who truly understand what is at stake concerning the quality of education available in Denver. They will be working 50-70 hour weeks when Bennet walks out, at least if they are "retained" in DPS, but the current contract proposal appeals mainly to new teacher, inexperienced teachers, good for them, but I want my kids to have experienced wisdom in the classroom and with that comes a cost that other districts outside the "inner city" are willing to pay. What does this tell you?
May 27, 2008
7:33 p.m.
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WelcomebackKotter writes:
plato, teachers are evaluated by principals every year, if they are not performing, they should be placed on a remediation plan, and if they do not improve, then they can be terminated. The union stops abuse of this power. The admin. hires "bad teachers" and is responsible for their performance. Seems fair to me. If I am a bad teacher, I should be fired. With one of the lowest pay scales in the metro district, do you think DPS is getting the highest ability applicants? No, when I came here, DPS paid the most for second year teachers, I took my skills here, but now the future is uncertain.
May 27, 2008
7:46 p.m.
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SandovalMom writes:
My kids also are at Marie Sandoval I too support the teachers 100%.
I have watched through the last year as these teachers struggle with a difficult transition and I have seen them offer to go above and beyond to make sure the students are given an excellent eduction. As one of the highest achieving schools in North West Denver they aren't happy to skate by with their excellent reputation. Sandoval is a DUAL language Montessori. All the teachers are bilingual, and Montessori trained to achieve this unprecedented model -- and have more requirements than most Elementary school educators. My children are getting an excellent education, however these teachers have to deal with an unsupportive administration and lack of funding. They deserve to be heard, and if this is the only way to get administration's attention, that is a failing of administration.
May 27, 2008
7:47 p.m.
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SteveC writes:
What the hell is a "literacy coach"? Is that what we used to call a reading teacher?
May 27, 2008
7:50 p.m.
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PI writes:
Timeandagain,
I am actually not an educator by profession,I'm actually just trying to educate ignorant people like you....but thanks for trying to 'out-me' as your kind are so fond of doing for your political purposes. Just because you got clowned for not knowing how to spell and you think you are God's chosen blogger to assault the evils of public education and the devilish teachers that just want money and vacation time, doesn't mean you gotta get all defensive, you are probably frothing at the mouth like John McSame, pecking away angrily as I have revealed your true colors anonymously to an anonymous audience. Get a grip and go register independent so you can act like you have an open mind, did you not do well in school? You sure seem to have a problem with teachers, are you a bitter divorcee formerly married to a teacher? Please explain.
May 27, 2008
8:07 p.m.
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American100 writes:
PI=personal itch
May 27, 2008
8:16 p.m.
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PI writes:
American100-Brand of cigarettes you smoke while dealing with the fact you are almost 100 years old, like the rest of these old line republicans who were given a computer to blog via a jerry fallwell bingo tournament. keep it comin.
May 27, 2008
8:27 p.m.
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timeandagain writes:
PI @ 4:23 today: "Any actions taken by teachers are not directed at the principle [sic]"
PI- I was going to let it go because it is really extraneous to the point of this discussion, but since you want to "clown" me for my ignorance and misspelling, I thought you might tell me what is fundamentally wrong with your first post here today? Principle is a fundamental, underlying law. PRINCIPAL is what I assume you were trying to say.
Now, I will not get down into your gutter to engage in the personal attacks and broad, disparaging remarks. I will only reiterate that you should really reevaluate your life because you are clearly a VERY unhappy/unfulfilled person.
Best!
May 27, 2008
8:40 p.m.
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PI writes:
Sorry to destroy your internet utopia, and kudos for looking through line after line of my rantings on a desperate search to salvage your tarnished image. You and American 100 need to pull out the ben gay, get your golf clubs all nice and shiny, clean the frothy bad breath spit off your mouth and stop trying to sway public perception because you were able to purchase a computer with money provided by the Independence Institute. It took me a long time reading the silly, misguided rantings of you and your allies against unions before getting involved. Consider this a level playing field from here on out, you may own the papers but you don't own the blogs. Cheers! P.S. I know that you are probably one knucklehead with several internet identities. So many people can't be that stupid.
May 27, 2008
9:05 p.m.
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American100 writes:
Personal Itch - I'm a 40 year old hispanic male who owns 2 thriving businesses. Hard work not cry baby fussing about gimme gimme gimme.
May 27, 2008
9:13 p.m.
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PI writes:
then get back to work, I don't care who you are....now that I know you are a thriving business owner i understand why you would be against unions, keep crackin that whip and gettin that money, make sure that you always put the individual and profits over people...oh, and mind your own business, i wasn't even talking to you, and you ain't the only hispanic blogging, maybe you should stay on your my face page with all those personal details..i hear time and again is looking for a forty year old virgin, and he just got divorced from a teacher so you could be his rebound thing.
May 27, 2008
9:31 p.m.
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timeandagain writes:
PI-
You are funny, I will give you that. Bitter, sad, envious, spiteful, pent up, angry and pathetic...but funny! I actually laughed at your last post! Keep it up - it is exceptionally reassuring for me!
If someone like you is my counter-point in life & politics, I must be doing something right and you confirm that with every new post...
Regards!
May 27, 2008
9:43 p.m.
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American100 writes:
PI needs a nap, maybe a delousing, probably a job and a place to live.
May 27, 2008
9:43 p.m.
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WelcomebackKotter writes:
PI and timeandagain, you guys would make a great sitcom together, work on a script, but don't forget the facts of this argument, check it: http://www.myfoxcolorado.com/myfox/My...
May 27, 2008
10:08 p.m.
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happymike44 writes:
Well instead of complaining about the teachers.Then show up and see how your children behave in a class.Most teachers deal with children and parents who disrupt and sometimes stop the education process in it's tracks.What I have seen written about destroy the union and destroy this benefit and that benefit.Well teachers are the lowest paid colledge educated professionals.If you destroy their benefits,guess what you may not see people wanting to teach.Because they can get jobs that pay twice as much in other employment sectors.Also not everyone can be a teacher or has the ability to handle kids.I notice the majority of posts here show no teachers.I also want to thank all the teachers for the selfless work they do.
May 27, 2008
10:09 p.m.
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PI writes:
Thanks for getting us back on topic. Time and again, American 100, I hope the relationship works out, you two deserve eachother.
Until we meet again, learn the facts and stop runnin off at the mouth anonymously in your home offices dressed in moomoo's.
May 27, 2008
10:34 p.m.
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bira44 writes:
When it comes right down to it, DPS teachers consider themselves union members first and teachers second. The siren song of the union is too much for them to resist.
May 27, 2008
11:34 p.m.
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ButIcantsaySylvesterGeorge writes:
So much anti-teacher, anti-union hate, so little time.
The problem with education, is that everyone thinks they know how to do it better than the people who actually study and work with kids. Just because you were a student, doesn't mean you know how to teach. Just because you work in the "real" world, doesn't mean you can make it the 180 paid workday world of teaching.
In fact, all you business model types, need to go back to business school and review the difference between "Sweatshops and their management style" versus "Empowering Employees to help you get rich style, a la Google, Starbucks or even Southwest Airlines. Total Quality Control..that's how Toyota beat GM among other things. When you respect the employee and their experience, you get a better product made more efficiently.
When DPS starts to figure out the fact that Everyone from the Superintendent down to the Principal actually exists to support the teacher and not vice versa, when you respect the teacher as the fundamental agent of change in the education of a child then we will get the results all of us need.
And just like in the business world, when you need to change tactics to make more money, teachers all of a sudden get "sick"
of poor treatment....ouch, a sick out. Don't worry about the kids, they are so burned out on testing and "Accountability" assessments, mentally they haven't been "present" for about a month or so.....
May 28, 2008
5:47 a.m.
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Donny writes:
I think Denver PD is just as under paid as these teachers. What if a bunch of them diden't show up for their shift and we had less officers on the streets to respond to calls? To me its just as big of a deal having teachers abonden kids. Thats the great thing about public service! you hopefully have people working in that field because they love what they do, no because of the money. If the teachers need more money there is other ways of making their piont than forgeting about the kids.
May 28, 2008
6:51 a.m.
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ItsJustme writes:
WWRD - What would Reagan do? Fire.Them.All.
May 28, 2008
6:53 a.m.
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elkman writes:
I don't think anyone twisted or broke the arms of these 16 teachers to become teachers. Did they become teachers because they wanted to teach students, or p&m about the pay. They knew when they went to college what the pay schedule is for teachers. If they wanted more income, go into politics. HA HA
May 28, 2008
7:03 a.m.
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sheepherder writes:
Good job teachers...keep up the fight! I remember a day when people supported unions, because it usually meant that down the road it would help them with salary and benefits as well. Short sighted people posting today...
May 28, 2008
7:17 a.m.
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elkman writes:
Unions have had their day in the sun. Just because unions were good back in the "old" days, does not mean they are good today. Unions use "black mail" tatics to get what they want. Just like a bully in a school yard. Do what I want or else. Unions have done a lot of good over the years, but their day is over.
May 28, 2008
7:25 a.m.
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tmsloan writes:
I would support paying teachers more if they worked a full work week all year as opposed to the outdated farm schedule they work now. I would also support them if they had a success rate above 75%. The graduation rates for DPS is less than 50%. Try performing like that in the private, non-union sector and expecting a raise.
May 28, 2008
7:35 a.m.
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Roxie07 writes:
Sounds like a free day to me. At least these teachers didn't do what our english teacher did by posing nude in playboy and getting a week suspension with pay. Justice?
May 28, 2008
7:38 a.m.
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elkman writes:
PI:
A little less bitterness and a little more thought about the subject matter would make you less of an idiot. Write something intelligent about the subject and quit attacking people with your stupid ramblings.
May 28, 2008
7:42 a.m.
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fiesty writes:
Wow, I can't believe all the insensitivity on this board. Look, teachers have an incredibly tough job, particularly with all the misbehaving little punks whose parents don't teach them basic manners and respect. They work long hours (most I know don't have time for lunch and take homework home for grading), and why? Because they love what they do. However, there is an administration that doesn't support them and a ridiculous environment (CSAP for example), no wonder the best and brightest are leaving!
1. For you idiots who say "fire them", where do you propose to have the qualified replacements come from?? You want to dumb down the requirements? Wow, you care about the education the kids are getting, don't you!
2. Also, do you think it's a coincidence that our education levels in the US have gone down hill at the same time we can't keep quality teachers?
3. Further, the teachers didn't "let" down the kids- they waited until the last freaking three days of school! Hello! My son is doing fieldtrips and movies this week, not really academics. They could have done it during CSAP testing, and really screwed the district over. The teachers have no other weapon in their arsenal if the administration stonewalls.
May 28, 2008
7:47 a.m.
DahmersCookbook writes:
(This comment was removed by the site staff.)
May 28, 2008
7:49 a.m.
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fiesty writes:
tmsloan- what a bunch of BS. My son has special needs, and we have meetings during the summer. I guess all those teachers I see in the school are ghosts, right?? I guess lesson plans appear out of thin air, and those teachers in their classroom spending weeks to get it ready for next year must really be janitors in disguise.
Further, I don't know many jobs where you have to bring in supplies for about 20-30 other people, or work 10+ hours for only 8 hours of pay and no overtime. Most people get a choice, and would scream foul at overtime with no pay. Oh well, they're teachers and "chose" it, so we can treat them any way we like, right?
May 28, 2008
8:05 a.m.
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DahmersCookbook writes:
Roxie07, Your teacher is the greatest! We need more like her! What year and month by chance?
May 28, 2008
9:04 a.m.
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SlouchingTowardBoulder writes:
Are you happy with this situation? If "yes", then by all means please continue to vote for Democrats for you local and state offices for it is the Democratic party that is fully beholden to the teachers' union (even the Sec. of the Treasury, Cary Kennedy, is a card-carrying member of the union).
The Colorado Demcoratic Party, and the national party as well, have become wholly-owned subsidiaries of the teachers' unions.
People, wake up!
May 28, 2008
9:06 a.m.
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wisdomwriter writes:
[Sigh] What would I give to bring Ronald Reagan back!!!!!!
May 28, 2008
9:22 a.m.
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American100 writes:
Elkman hit it on the head
Nobody forced these people into becoming teachers.
Who aspires to become a teacher because of the high pay? Nobody.
My wife spends a great deal of time in the classrooms as a class mom. She commented one day about the amount of teachers who don't seem to like the kids, or are at least very impatient, especially with the special needs kids.
They have a 9 month work year, 8 month if you include all the Thanksgiving, Christmas, spring break, presidents holidays etc.
As far as DPS having qualified teachers, hold on here comes the truth, when we moved back to Colorado we did some very serious research about schools. Aurora, & Denver tank which does not cause me to believe they have the best teachers.
On the teacher's side, I do think parental involvement is important in the learning process and if parents aren't paying attention, their kids will sink to the bottom.
May 28, 2008
9:22 a.m.
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Tenebrozo5280 writes:
Good job for the teachers. Desperate times call for desperate measures. The administration always deflects it's uselessness with the put-the-kids-first argument. Well, paying teachers a fair and well deserved wage ensures that the kids will get the quality education they deserve. Politicizing a labor dispute is what the Republicans want. Fear mongering is their way of not addressing the real issues and pushing through their backwards agenda. Change is on the agenda this year. Great job teachers! They will have to listen! YES WE CAN!
May 28, 2008
9:39 a.m.
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ladida writes:
Fiesty - I don't bring supplies in to work for others, but I routinely work 10 hour days for no over time. It's called a salaried position. I also work 50 weeks a year (not 40-42 weeks) at 10 hours a day...and take work home at night and weekends, too...and frequently eat lunch at my desk to get my work done. But this is the job I chose. If I don't like it, I can always look for another job instead of whining about it.
May 28, 2008
9:47 a.m.
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American100 writes:
RIGHT ON Ladida, very well said.
Teachers seem to think they are the only ones who put in "free" hours.
May 28, 2008
9:53 a.m.
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Cwillyrun1 writes:
Teachers don't have easy jobs, that's a given, but there's so many jobs out there that aren't easy. Many who get paid less than teachers. If they have problems with their contract, don't punish the kids by a walkout, and in the process make themselves look bad. I don't see anything outside of unions where calling in sick as a form of protest of compensation is acceptable. Normal people can't do that because they have a responsibility to their position, first and foremost. Too many union employees take their jobs for granted. I used to know of two truck drivers, one union and one non-union. The union driver, for Safeway, only drove around town..... never over the road (mountains, etc.), and when he drove to the Safeway plant he couldn't back the truck up. Another union employee had to come out and back the tractor-trailer up to the dock. The non-union driver had superior skills in comparison, being able to drive over the roads in any condition, and one of those skills was being able to back up the 18-wheeler to a dock, no problem. The union driver used to criticize the non-union driver, but the non-union driver could run circles around him. The point is, being in the union doesn't come close to equating to being the best in that field, it just means it's easier for those people to get complacent and lazy and fall behind, but the protections of the union also makes it harder to replace them.
It used to be that teachers really cared about their children, but some have forgotten about that. Not all, but some.
PI..... your posts are like reading a child's rant when he isn't getting his way. Aren't you loved? Thankfully, you AREN'T a teacher.
May 28, 2008
10:13 a.m.
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olsonmt writes:
It's time to scrap the entire system and start over. Even in the best schools, and DPS surely doesn't have the best schools, our kids are getting a second-rate education. Somehow taxpayers are still funding a first-rate cost. Many teachers, administrators, and parents seem to be concerned only with making our kids feel good e.g. no class rankings, no grading in red ink, pass and fail grades, rejection of any standards and testing, and on and on.
May 28, 2008
10:19 a.m.
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RightOn writes:
you left out: Lack of co-operation with the local authorities.
May 28, 2008
11:45 a.m.
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Unwritten writes:
Sorry this is so long but I just have to respond... I just LOVE when people use this quote "those that "can" do and those that "can't" teach" to prove their point. I guess you got where you are with NO education and NO teachers to give you the education you got, right??? What hypocrites those of you are who even THINK you know how hard the job of a teacher is and that you could do it. Most, if not all of you, would not last a day if you had to put up with the crap most teachers have to take from many of the students, parents, administrators, the media and you negative people who think you know all about teaching. Being a former student does NOT give you insight to teaching. Try spending a full week in any classroom the WHOLE school day working and then tell us that you know you could do the job. Having students in your classroom who WANT to learn is becoming more rare and even more precious these days and the problems teachers have to deal with makes those children lose out. I didn't go into teaching for the pay but I sure deserve a lot more respect and yes, pay than I get. I take classes during the summer to update my skills and to learn the new "improved" curriculum the districts say we have to use or to update for my license (I pay for those classes, the district does NOT reimburse me for them like many jobs do) and plan for the next week on weekends and holidays, etc. Some people would tell me to get a job in the "real" world if I want better pay or to shut up and quit whining but at least I'm willing to do a job most people won't go into for those exact reasons, low pay, lack of respect and lack of support from many students, parents and administration. And... if teaching ISN'T real world, what is? The real quote should be "those that "can" TEACH and those that "can't" complain about teachers and WON'T".
May 28, 2008
12:18 p.m.
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timeandagain writes:
I am just confused as to why this really seems to be an isolated incident at one school (and a small part of a 2nd)?? Is it only the Sandoval teachers that are part of this contract negotiation - or are they just the loudest? This appears to be too isolated of a protest to be District-wide. Maybe Sandoval is just a miserable DPS school for teachers? Or maybe their real problem is with this particular school's principal, Lucero-Kraft? It seems to be more of a reflection on her than anything...
Regardless, I don't know that the projection of this as a DPS-wide movement is accurate.
May 28, 2008
12:31 p.m.
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olsonmt writes:
Teaching is a tough job made only tougher by students and parents who don't appreciate the educational opportunities mandated by law in this country. I say we start rebuilding the system by making the apathetic parents and students "want" it again. It may be time to cull the herd. If you don't work hard or you don't want to support your kids, you're out. After enduring a few lost generations some neighborhoods\communities\cohorts may regain an appreciation for the educational opportunities afforded them. Don't get me wrong. I don't condone teachers throwing a temper tantrum which only hurts the kids. Grow up. Go to work. Handle it like professionals.
May 28, 2008
12:38 p.m.
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whograbdmyass writes:
I think the teachers in the union should be very careful. I'm pretty sure that the ability of the principal to replace all those teachers, with no notice, was not lost on Mr. Bennett. To me it perhaps, would be an indicator that there are plenty of people willing to do their jobs. That's how unions get broken.
May 28, 2008
3:42 p.m.
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Jennira writes:
I am a DPS teacher and I am appalled at how many of you seem to have a lack and disregard for what teachers do and what we go through on a daily basis What you are reading and hear on TV is fabricated they are not really telling the truth The $9000 bonus they speak of is not given to every teacher which working for corporate America you would have a chance to earn or do earn for those incentives If you don’t teach a duel language, work in a hard to staff school hard to serve school or are a kindergarten and specialist like myself I teach art you do not qualify for these bonuses and that is only if you are on Pro-Comp which I am not and I am a fairly new teacher to the district Salary increases are not an incentive to come and work for this district and many teachers will not join because of that The amount of work involved outside the actual job description you are hired to do for Pro-Comp is not an easy task As a teacher we are formally evaluated each year by our administration and we have requirements that have to be fulfilled turned in and observed How many of you have to go through that after your probationary period Even after probation we can be let go but with due cause Teachers that don’t care or put forth the effort will go on a plan to fix it or other wise be fired.We are not here to stay contrary to belief I am considered a highly qualified teacher based on what DPS structures its credentials on In fact I am overly qualified not that you really need to know my background history No I did not go into teaching for the pay but I do need to be able to survive and the overtime I put in and do not get paid for I can not hold another job. I tried. I have a designated time I get paid for that is why it is called a salary base but with other jobs most of the time you do outside of that is somehow rewarded The demands of the teaching profession do not allow for extra time I give my mornings and afternoons, nights to meetings, tutoring, and clubs Most of which I volunteer for I do not get paid and I do it out of the progress of our students and our school. I work 70+ hours a week 365 days a year, planning, teaching, testing, doing paper work, organizing and analyzing data to see what the next steps are to help our students succeed. I have planning days spent in meetings to learn new curriculum strategies, and grading benchmarks. I give up my class teaching time because of district testing. I spend $3000 a year out of my pocket for supplies and costumes, many I make myself, and activities that students do during festivals so they do not have to pay for it I spend my so called vacations going to meetings, professional developments, training sessions and spending nights going to school to get a master’s degree that DPS doesn’t seem to care that I advanced my education to be a better teacher for the students yet you are rewarded elsewhere for your efforts and gains.
May 28, 2008
3:43 p.m.
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Jennira writes:
this is continued I had too much to say. I spent the last weekend preparing for continuations and award ceremonies this week. I deal with class sizes that are outrageous and many have discipline issues a lack of respect and no desire to want to learn, parents not all, I do have some that are supportive and those are the ones that have students that are succeeding but many seem to think that having children are a sport and only cute when they are little and after third grade they are on their own. Parents in prison, on drugs, bring guns to school and the students are holding grudges against the world because of this. I am not only a teacher I have to be a physiatrist, social worker, warden, parent, and still teach. I wear many hats during the day other than just my job description. I am not only teaching art to pre-school through 5th grade full time I am also the Gifted and Talented specialist that requires monthly meetings to attend, testing, filing paper work, identifying the students, and teaching them during the time my colleagues are tutoring students who are low in their class time. This is normally a full time job for one person and so I am working two jobs and being paid for one.
May 28, 2008
3:44 p.m.
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Jennira writes:
. I am sure that I sound as if I am crying and right now you are going to write get a new job. What you don’t seem to understand is that I love my job, I love coming to work and working with the odds to get the students to go and see their potential and encourage them to be what they want to be in the world. Not everyone can teach and those that think they can quickly change their tune and find something else. Someone else had stated and I feel that it needs to be reiterated, where would you be without teachers? Even if you did not go to college you have to have learned basics skills to be able to work in the work force. Would you want a doctor who did not go to school and learn from the best which happen to be teachers? How did you get there your teachers and probably your parents? It has to be a community effort. I am not a miracle worker though society certainly expects us to be, what else would I be with the pay and benefits. I am suppose to lie down and accept which many of you seem to be saying. This has been an issue for years and we have written to the higher ups and we have sat through negotiations and we have walked after school hours away from student time in front of the building protesting our concerns but it is not being heard. We have compromised for the students sake and the districts those that stayed are a testament to that, we want to believe it will get better. The union protects us so we do have a job to come to and they can’t just throw us out like the do with programs. What would get done if it did? Students don’t transition well for a day with a sub, believe me I did that for a year before I got my position. It is not also all about the money either but how do I get you to understand that since you have made up your minds that those that are complaining should be fired and are not qualified to do this job. Who are you to judge what I do? You do not have the qualifications to do what I have to do. And I would surprise many of you if I came and did your job with ease. If a trained monkey could do what I do then why do we have Ivy League schools? Clearly paying for a proper education isn’t worth it to you. That is what we are asking for. Private schools aren’t all that great either, because they do not have to answer to district demands and many are slipping behind too. I appreciate those that do stand behind teachers because we work twice as hard as many and are treated unfairly because we are tired and starting to take a stand. You all seem to be okay with sports players making millions and being uneducated role models for our students as well as rappers that’ okay to put your money towards but heaven forbid the teachers that educate your students get a fair share.
May 28, 2008
3:59 p.m.
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Jennira writes:
we do not get PTO our salary is caried over that time so half of my working hours goes towards my pay checks for the summer. I don't know where your getting the hourly wages either I certain don't get paid that much an hour. Also you are looking at the hours we are paid for not the ones we are putting in outside that time, again if you are not a teacher you don't get it. this is to dan2, just because your student may not be at the school doesn't mean we aren't
May 28, 2008
4 p.m.
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Heidi writes:
Jennira:
"I am considered a highly qualified teacher based on what DPS structures its credentials on In fact I am overly qualified"
I respect the fact that you a dedicated teacher, put in many hours, and are furthering your education. But, based on your writing skills, I am appalled at what apparently is considered highly qualified by DPS.
May 28, 2008
4:03 p.m.
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sisepuede writes:
DENVER CLASSROOM TEACHERS are just that, in their classrooms,
Bargaining for
1.maximum TIME in their classrooms TO TEACH, plan, assess, analyze data and WORK. no one is whining. let the teachers TEACH!
Everyone wants high test scores; numbers talk. It takes time to plan and teach.Yet, Principals are scared into thinking a max of 90 min. a week in meetings is a minimum.
OK, they say,
2.let's have a Leadership Team to work out time issues at each school
But DPS says "Sorry, Papa-Principal always gets the last word."
the downtown bureaucrats need to let the educating professionals work together to teach Denver's Kids!!!
3.Tax payers watched a 7 year $10 million experiment hear in Denver. Huza! PROCOMP! a salary building plan based on professional work.
DPS propose spending:
.2% ON SALARY AND
99.8% of the NEW $26.6 MILL LEVY up on 1 year Bonuses and even a "Master"/Principal's Choice (dare I say "pet") Bonus--AT THE TABLE.
Meanwhile, Supt. Bennet sent teachers this week:
7 page email &
a power point on his position
his media friends' version of the DPS proposal complete w/insults by Bd of Ed. members
and the ADMIN. BARGAINERS WALKED AWAY from the table (CEO"I'm going home") the same day his academic NYC-import whiz kid Aquino RESIGNED.
Get the FACTS.
Denver Taxpayers GET SMART
Tell DPS to go Back To The Table to end this Undignified Public Debate
You can all stop arguing and HELP Keep Teachers IN the Classrooms
NOW do you UNDERSTAND WHY the Teachers Got YOUR Attention?
May 28, 2008
4:05 p.m.
Suggest removal
steel writes:
Jennira,
Heidi said it all. Can you spell "p-u-n-c-t-u-a-t-i-o-n"? I know you can.
May 28, 2008
4:07 p.m.
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RightOn writes:
Jennira - Carried is 2 r's not 1. You're in the context you're using is is YOU'RE not your. You omit punctuation. Certainly not certain in that sentence.
And by the way, almost every employed person I know puts in unpaid overtime. That's life.
May 28, 2008
4:17 p.m.
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Cwillyrun1 writes:
Jennira, I sympathize with your situation. It's not easy being a teacher, that's a given. But in my field and the company I work for, there's salaried people that don't get compensation for any OT whatsoever, they may have to take their work home with them, or even go to work on a Saturday night at 11:00 and they don't get home until 6:00 the next morning. All on the same salary no matter what.
About your last comment on your last post.... do athletes, rappers/musicians, or movie stars for that matter deserve the money they get? Not if the importance of their work is looked at. But then there's several other jobs out there that would fit the example if "teacher" was replaced with another position. The money that entertainers get in compensation is what consumers are willing to pay for. Guess what, those people you mention also make more than the President. People pay for entertainment to take away some stress from their own lives, a diversion if you will. People will pay for that, even overpay.
Good luck to you.
May 28, 2008
4:24 p.m.
Suggest removal
sisepuede writes:
You agreed to not post abusive language.
TOPIC:
TEACHERS NEED their time back to teach.
A day out of year end what-not got your attention
DPS needs to keep the ProComp PROMISES to DENVER TAXPAYERS to BUILD SALARIES for professionalism, not use .2% for salary and the other 99.8% to either let Principals pick pets or bonus the $ into oblivion
May 28, 2008
4:39 p.m.
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Heidi writes:
CWilly, you were much nicer than I was :(
May 28, 2008
4:41 p.m.
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olsonmt writes:
So let me get this straight... teachers want to make more money and don't want anyone telling them what to do. They don't want to go to meetings with administrators and they don't want to have their performance judged by any objective means e.g. testing. They want to keep their lavish pension plans and don't want to work more than 1,200 hours per year. Is that about right? The teachers posting here would be better served by getting their English teacher peers to post for them. BTW Great stats, Dan. The truth hurts.
May 28, 2008
4:49 p.m.
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WelcomebackKotter writes:
You guys are all over the place and are missing the point. Other districts are offering more money for experienced teachers and every level of teacher right now. DPS wants to pay younger teachers more to attract college grads and compete with other districts.
the question should be: Are parents of DPS students OK with this? or do they want experience and quality in the classroom? If the citizens of Denver are OK with their schools not competing with the rest of the city for the best teachers, then I, as a teacher will take my expertise elsewhere. I fight for a fair agreement because I like the kids of Denver and would like to stay here, but this is a market economy, I have free choice, and will probably go elsewhere after next year if this dispute is not resolved.
Lighten up on the spelling comments, but punctuation would be nice.
May 28, 2008
4:59 p.m.
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WelcomebackKotter writes:
Look, I've seen several people crack, literally break down because of the stress inherent in supervising 30-35 kids, maintaining their safety while educating them is a daily challenge. Many kids just don't do what you ask them, times have changed. Teachers have to learn how to be positive and not take things personally.
True, when deciding to become a teacher, the vacation time was a huge perk. I don't believe people should have to work as much as they do. Europeans get way more vacation time on average than Americans. something like 1-2 months versus our 1-2 weeks. But I also know that teaching requires massive energy to motivate the students to learn. when you are feeling down, it affects the students. I also agree that the traditional calendar is antiquated and was originally for agricultural purposes. I would work year round if I was paid for it, sure.
May 28, 2008
5:08 p.m.
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BMat writes:
So many parents have posted that they support the teachers actions based on the timing. "My kids don't do anything in the last week of school anyway," they say.
So why not save the City and County MILLIONS by closing the darn buildings (no a/c running, no lights on, no buses running, no employees means no need to pay worker's comp for that time, etc., etc)?
Can you imagine the money that could be spent on fixing potholes then? Mayor Lickenpooper would have a snow plow on every street!
Instead, teachers want to get paid for a certain number of teaching days per year (even if they admittedly lie about being sick to avoid going to work). So they fake the last few days of the year just to keep them on the calendar when nobody (from the kids, to the parents, to the principal) thinks they're really working.
Can you imagine if your mail carrier just "skipped" the last few houses on her route? Can you imagine if your dentist just "skipped" a few of your teeth b/c she had been working so dang hard all year anyway?
Teachers live in isolation from the rest of the world. When reality knocks it's usually a very stressful time for them.
May 28, 2008
5:15 p.m.
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WelcomebackKotter writes:
Dan2,
We are talking about teaching in Denver. I've taught 10 years, some things are easier over time, like knowing how to communicate to kids effectively, but the amount of paperwork and data analysis has added an extra 6-8 hours to my work week easily over the last two years as the Denver Plan is implemented. I'm not complaining, I think Denver students are more challenging to teach in a lot of ways so more work should be required to bring them to proficiency. We have Kindergarteners who don't know what letters and numbers are!
I have been at school since 6:30, and am now making photo CDs from our school year to sell to parents to raise money for new technology. I don't mind, I love my job. But if I can love my job in Jeff co or Aurora and make 7,000 more, then that's what I'll do.
DPS will be better place for students with a more competitive pay scale.
May 28, 2008
5:24 p.m.
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WelcomebackKotter writes:
BMat, Kids check out when the weather gets warm. It takes an extraordinary amount of skill to keep them learning for the first three weeks of May. You come across like the other yahoos on here with your isolation statement. Not a bad idea to cancel the last few days of school. But we do things like field day, remember how fun that was?, awards assemblies for positive recognition, continuation ceremonies. Also, you clearly do not understand the economics of our sc