Cops' names released in fatal shooting
Rocky Mountain News
Originally published 06:04 p.m., May 21, 2008
Updated 11:43 p.m., May 21, 2008
Police have released the names of the two officers who shot and killed a 45-year-old man during a confrontation in Denver's Montbello neighborhood over the weekend.
The officers are Christopher Cesarec, who joined the department in 2000, and Chris Pappas, who has been with the force for three years, police said Wednesday.
Odiceo Valencia was killed Saturday night when he failed to heed the officers' orders to drop a knife during a family gathering in the 5500 block of North Dillon Way, police said.
The officers fired their weapons after first shooting a Taser round and pepper balls at Valencia, who police say continued to move toward the officers.
Valencia's daughter has said that her father was killed after officers called him on his cell phone and asked him to return to the home where his youngest daughter's first holy communion was being celebrated.
Witnesses said that the police commands were in English. Valencia, a native of Mexico, did not understand English well, although he had lived in the U.S. for more than 20 years, neighbors said.
Valencia's wife, Altagracia Medina, filed an April 21 complaint, accusing him of assault and petty theft. The incident caused a judge to issue a protective order prohibiting Valencia from contacting his wife or visiting the family home.
Valencia's daughter said she agreed to let her father come to the home to share in the religious celebration.
In 2006, Pappas, two other officers and a sergeant were given the Superior Tactics and Response Award by Police Chief Gerry Whitman for their roles in apprehending a man who was armed with a rifle inside his home.
The award recognizes officers who "successfully resolve a critical incident, thereby setting a standard for safety and professionalism to which all officers should aspire," according to the department.
Pappas and the other officers responded to a call of a man shooting a rifle at his dog in his backyard, police said. When they arrived at the home, they heard more gunshots.
The armed man came to the front door holding a rifle, but officers were able to convince him to leave the rifle inside and come out, where they took him into custody, police said.
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May 21, 2008
6:51 p.m.
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HOOK writes:
Here we go again RMN, "in full view of his family," this guy wouldn’t listen to the cops commands in the first place, what were the cops supposed to do? Ah, Ah, Ahhhh, OK sir, I know you are drunk, cut yourself, came back with a bigger knife, violated a restraining order earlier, have a criminal history, and are advancing on four officers with their heaters pointed at you (universal language for stop), but can we take this down the street so us blood thirsty, quick on the trigger, racist cops don’t have to murder you in front of your family?
For the umpteenth hundredth time, he is the one who chose the time and place of his death, we all feel sorry the family had to see it, but quit implying it was the cops fault, or at least have the intestinal fortitude to come out and say it RMN, so anybody that questioned it before really knows where you stand.
May 21, 2008
7:04 p.m.
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American100 writes:
Good job officers.
You did your job and protected the community from a known menace.
May 21, 2008
7:20 p.m.
HOOK writes:
(This comment was removed by the site staff.)
May 21, 2008
7:42 p.m.
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Caleb Kropf writes:
A posting by the user HOOK at 7:20 p.m. was removed because it was a copyright violation. Users may post links to other sites to make their point.
Caleb Kropf
Assistant Interactive Producer
Rocky Mountain News
May 21, 2008
8:17 p.m.
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American100 writes:
I can't believe they deleted Hook for saying the Dp does a better job of reporting FACTS instead of cheap editorials.
May 21, 2008
8:25 p.m.
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HOOK writes:
Yep, that is freedom of speech for ya, wow, now I really believe we are living in a fascist, suppressive state. Way to go Rocky, anyone proves you are what are, shut em' up, keep them silent, you have the power. (Hope you all read this quick, I'm sure the speech police at the RMN will have it gone in no time!)
May 21, 2008
9:20 p.m.
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HollyGoLightly writes:
It doesn't add up. It has already been pointed out by several readers that if the cops called Mr. Valencia on his phone to have him return to the home, he had to understand some English otherwise he wouldn't have shown up. You can't convince me that he could understand that call but not the words "Stop" or "Drop the knife"? Especially after 20 years of living in the US.
May 21, 2008
9:42 p.m.
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Oh_Wise_One writes:
I had a comment deleted on that other thread for saying that Tina Griego is bigoted against whites and La Raza lover. She still is and let the comment Nazi's delete this one too. Fishwrap.
May 21, 2008
9:43 p.m.
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redwhiteandBLUE writes:
Pappas and Cesarec did NOTHING wrong! They did their jobs that came with their training.
Holly, Excellent point!
May 21, 2008
10:11 p.m.
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HOOK writes:
Exactly HGL, exactly, but were supposed to believe the garbage TG, RMN, and the (oh the cops just wanted to kill him in front of us) crowd
May 21, 2008
11:47 p.m.
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timeandagain writes:
Officers Cesarec & Pappas:
Thank you for your service to the citizens of Denver. I appreciate the good work that you and the DPD do. Hang in there as pandering liberals like RMN columnist Tina Greigo try to drum up sympathy and support for this guy.
May 22, 2008
2:48 a.m.
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happymike44 writes:
This paper once again attacks the people who defend them from harm.The cops deal with lying murdering scum all day long.This paper then turns around and nails them for doing a tough job.This guywas a drunken moron who showed up carrying a knife.The family should not profit from this.We the taxpayers need to say to people like this drunken idiot.Sorry the bank of america is closed.Well the main thing is this idiot can't drink and drive or cause harm to anyone else.Sorry for your loss but he did bring it upon himself acting the fool.It is just a shame he couldn't stay sober.The family should realize that they had a part in this tragedy as well.
May 22, 2008
6:23 a.m.
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dcolon47 writes:
Who actually made the call, was it the officers on site or some one that spoke spanish from the police station?
May 22, 2008
6:35 a.m.
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shoulder2shoulder writes:
he was here 20yrs and didn't understand English?? My cousin went on a 2yr Mormon Missinon in Latin America and came back speaking Spanish!! I guess he put a little more effort into it.
May 22, 2008
7:36 a.m.
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sheepherder writes:
Excellent job DPD, there are some out here who appreciate what you do. Hope the officers are dealing with this OK.
May 22, 2008
8:44 a.m.
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EZBakeOven writes:
Excellent job by the police officers for recognizing and stopping the threat. I hope the City of Denver will let this go to a jury trial instead of settling with the family.
May 22, 2008
8:46 a.m.
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blacksho89 writes:
dcolon47: According to the tapes made of police radio transmissions, the officers on the scene called Sr Valencia. They offered to meet him elsewhere if he wanted. They called an ambulance to stand by as he was reportedly bleeding. Through all of this, no officer made any statement that would lead anyone to believe that Sr Valencia needed an interpretor, or was having any trouble understanding.
Police narratives of his other arrests also do not indicate the need for an interpretor, including a previous occasion when he was arrested for choking his wife and calling her a "ho". I thought "puta" was Spanish for "ho", but I digress.
Sr Valencia apparently spoke English when it was convenient for him to do so.
Source: http://www.khow.com/pages/boyles.html
For information that the "traditional media" can not be bothered to tell you.
Editor: Why is your circulation and ad revenue going down? Could it be biased reporting? Hmmm?
May 22, 2008
9:59 a.m.
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nmedina writes:
Hello everyone,
I have to tell you that being so far away from famy is defenately been somewhat painful and having to deal with a tragedy like this one is even worst. I have been keeping an eye on the news reguarding the death of a dear family member and i have to say that by what I have read so far in the comments it is hard to imagine the interpretetions everyone gets from what they read than what is really happening to the ones effected by the tragedy is completely different. Well here is what I know of them and if you choose to read this and still have the same opinion of them as you first did then so be it. Nobody ever knows what it feels like to have someone riped from your life so fast and so awful as it did. I was always the one to always feel and say pretty much what everyone is stating "it was his fault" but to have to hear it from an 8yr old and had the chance to share in their life the joy of their father and all of the happy memories its been the hardest thing to deal with. Now imagine that pain in a child whom asks why it happens and all any person will tell her is "it was his fault" right?, because thats what we read and not what we saw. But she did, and so did her siblings and mother.He was a great father to them and face it who doesnt have marital problems. After all we are human. They lived a great life their children are great kids and it shows it by their devotion to their religion. Now when I see other stories being reported just like this one I wont say "it was his fault" but actually feel for them because though so far away pain like this measures no distance.
May 22, 2008
10:15 a.m.
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artstarzz writes:
All I can say is thou shell not kill . Denver cops need more education . Taser didn't stop him pepper balls didn't stop him . Yet he was drunk . Was he drunk or had he been drinking ? Did the cops fear for their life or just scared of a DRUNK ? So if you drink show up at the request of the police . You can get shot . Not once in the leg but several times in the chest . White in America . Street justice .
May 22, 2008
11:13 a.m.
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shoulder2shoulder writes:
nmedina- I am sorry to see anyone lose a parent, but to say he was a great father, not buying it. A great father doesn't punch their childs mother in the face
May 22, 2008
11:23 a.m.
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RBN writes:
The murderer's have names. It makes me sick that people can hide behind their screen names and make comments actually justifying a man’s death. You people are cowards and sick. I bet you would have nothing but nice things to say to his daughter if you met her. You are cowards who hide behind screen names and point and click like you all are stand-up citizens. I know plenty of police officers and some are even my friends, and they all talk about beating people up and using force like it is a joke. They laugh and tell stories like it’s the thing to do. I bet you they have made jokes about this man’s passing. Anyone who thinks this is justified is a complete idiot.
May 22, 2008
12:25 p.m.
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JINX writes:
Officer Ceserec abd Pappas, I support you and the Denver Police Dept. You have a tough job and had to make a tough decision, one you didn't intend on making at the beginning of your shift. I hope the best for you.
These forums make it easy for idiots like Artstarzz and RBN to second guess and arm chair quarterback from the luxury of their seats in the rear. Both are cowards and single minded, only having hate for the decent job you do for everybody. RBN, pick up an officers belt an go do it better, stand in front of danger and make the split second decisions that our fine officers do. Until then, your opinions only ring true for the criminals justifying their actions because they are persecuted by the police. I don't believe in protecting the civil liberties of one to trump the liberties of all. Meaning, it should not be allowed for one to break the law and then call foul because he doesn't agree how he was stopped from breaking the law. Society loses. I remember when criminals were afraid of the police, now they are a nuisance, and everyone makes them out to be the criminal.
May 22, 2008
12:44 p.m.
RBN writes:
(This comment was removed by the site staff.)
May 22, 2008
1:01 p.m.
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JINX writes:
How do you know the turn of events, were you there, do you have a taping of the incident. I believe everytime the police are involved in something you cry foul, racism or excessive force. Your argument doesn't hold water with me. It takes time and patience to tazer a person, then pepper ball him and then shoot him. Sounds to me as the guy rushed at them after a lenghthy amount of negotiation. I for one will not insist that they check and make sure the family has hidden their faces from the foolish acts their father initiated. Another thing, Ben freakin Franklin wasn't alive when these idiots stood on street croners armed with TEC 9's, or when a distraught husband killed his family because the wife decides to divorce him. I support the police who kick the hell out of the guy who just drove by a house and unloaded a high powered rifle. More power to them. You stand with a knife and force the hand of an armed police officer, believing that you are going to win. You are going to lose and commen sense should make that reasoning easy, drunk or not.
May 22, 2008
1:01 p.m.
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JINX writes:
How do you know the turn of events, were you there, do you have a taping of the incident. I believe everytime the police are involved in something you cry foul, racism or excessive force. Your argument doesn't hold water with me. It takes time and patience to tazer a person, then pepper ball him and then shoot him. Sounds to me as the guy rushed at them after a lenghthy amount of negotiation. I for one will not insist that they check and make sure the family has hidden their faces from the foolish acts their father initiated. Another thing, Ben freakin Franklin wasn't alive when these idiots stood on street croners armed with TEC 9's, or when a distraught husband killed his family because the wife decides to divorce him. I support the police who kick the hell out of the guy who just drove by a house and unloaded a high powered rifle. More power to them. You stand with a knife and force the hand of an armed police officer, believing that you are going to win. You are going to lose and commen sense should make that reasoning easy, drunk or not.
May 22, 2008
1:32 p.m.
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MileHiQT writes:
I'm sorry but I'm compelled to ask . . .
What kind of "good father" gets intoxicated at his childs "religious celebration"?
May 22, 2008
1:55 p.m.
RBN writes:
(This comment was removed by the site staff.)
May 22, 2008
1:55 p.m.
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Chelle writes:
I'm with you mileHiQT. I guess he was a good father when he wasn't drunk, stealing and punching his wife in the face.Other than that he was a fine example of fatherhood. Does he deserve to get shot up by the police? I dont know I wasn't there. But if he or anyone else including RBN think it's a good idea to challenge the police than in my opinion you get what you get. No tears, No biching. Blame yourself for lacking in the respect for authority. Cops don't play and they shouldn't they are usually surrounded by A-holes 24/7 who don't deserve freedom in the first place. I say to all who do this job Keep up the good work.... As far as NMEDINA. I am sorry that you lost your family member and that he has 3 children who witnessed thier dad being killed.
May 22, 2008
2:01 p.m.
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B_Man writes:
RBN-Thats your real name right?? I too have also served my duty for this country and continue thay duty in law enforcement. And if you truly have "been there" you should know that in combat situations, as this was, that you dont have time to think about who's watching, or who's around. You have a split second, or less, to make immediate life or death situations by using your training after all other means have been tried, have failed, or are impratical. But since you say this guy should havent died and the cops overreated and are murderers, it must be true, because you have been there right. What happened, you didnt pass the exam and couldnt get in, thats why your upset with police? Take it somewhere else pretender, Ive buried brothers over seas, and two of my best friends here (In the Line of Duty) as they were protecting whiny asses such as yourself. Do not speak of that which you do not understand, or are to afraid to do. And put yourself in the families shoes of the dead cops, you IDIOT. Would you care if the police would have been killed in front of this guys kids??? Of course not, thats our job, right. Move to France. Semper Fi
May 22, 2008
2:01 p.m.
Suggest removal
RBN writes:
And don't get me wrong, 99.9% of cops are good people who have a tough job. But that doesn't give them a pass to kill. I understand they put their life on the line, but does that clear them of wrong doing? It is just getting more and more common to see this kind of thing happen, its sad. If the facts showed that he wasn't bleeding and possibly suffering from low blood sugar then I could see our points. If it was a dog people would be outraged, but since it was human, all of us WASP's think he got what he deserved. It's sad.
May 22, 2008
2:04 p.m.
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JINX writes:
Where did I say anything about race you idiot(RBN). Read the post, not one mention of it. I could care less if the guy was brown, black, blue or albino. Your theory is why the police are handcuffed to fight back against crime. All are worried about persecution after making the "RIGHT DECISION." The police didn't put a knife in his hand, they didn't dial 911, they didn't tell him to stand with a knife. The police didn't make his wife get a restraining order or make him injest alcohol. All these were decisions on his part. The police didn't break the law, they responded and were confronted with an ARMED PARTY. They negotiated, they tazered, they pepper balled him, and then were left with no other options. Please explain the other options to me so that I understand. Should they have left. Should they have run as he approached with the knife. Should they have brought his wife out to talk to him. Let me know smart guy
May 22, 2008
2:09 p.m.
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JINX writes:
And another thing, you don't know the facts so quit making them up as you go. The facts everyone knows was that he had a knife and didn't comply with orders from commissioned officers, Period.
May 22, 2008
2:10 p.m.
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RBN writes:
Good God! No, I went to school because after seeing this world and wanted something better. I am not blasting cops you idiot. I am saying that they should not get a free pass to kill. I am sorry that you lost friends and loved ones. That is sad. But so is this. It just doesn't seem justified. I have respect for officers of the law, just not ones that abuse their authority and make poor choices. Now if you can tell me that a cop has never shot someone that didn't need it I will hear you out, but since we both now you can't then I suggest you just shut up. RBN are my initials.
May 22, 2008
2:12 p.m.
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RBN writes:
Fact: The cops were called to help him
Fact: He was bleeding
Fact: He is a diabetic
Fact: He was murdered
Do any of you know anything about people suffering from low blood sugar?
May 22, 2008
2:14 p.m.
Suggest removal
JINX writes:
And you get to decide after the fact the ones that abusr their authority or make poor choices. That is a luxury for that is protected by brave officers.
Denver Police Department - I for one support you.
Give em hell
May 22, 2008
2:15 p.m.
Suggest removal
timeandagain writes:
Jinx-
Don't take the bait from RBN. The only thing he/she has been "charged with protecting" is the deep fryer at McDonalds. Trust me, it is not even worth the keystrokes to address someone that is so situated in ignorance.
May 22, 2008
2:24 p.m.
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RBN writes:
This is not bait, I am just trying to reach out to the undereducated and help them see that this was not justified. Yikes. If they don't get charged I will accept that, if they get charged and get off I will not be mad. Because they had the chance to go through the legal process. A legal process that has been denied to the man that was killed. I support cops! I understandd they have a difficlut job. I just think that they should be held to same standards as the rest of us. A women with a gun was shot in Aurora, she is not dead, now why not? The cops did a great job that is why. I know cops work hard, but I also know that they are not saints.
May 22, 2008
2:25 p.m.
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RBN writes:
I hope none of you see a man die, but if you do, it gives you new respect for all life.
May 22, 2008
2:27 p.m.
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JINX writes:
Thanks supreme professor of all knowing that is right, thanks for educating us with your supreme knowledge. As far as Aurora, different incident, different circumstances, different lucky opportunities and different outcome. The world doesn't provide picture perfect everytime, idiot.
May 22, 2008
2:32 p.m.
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RBN writes:
Have I ruffled your feathers Jinxy??? So sorry.
May 22, 2008
2:43 p.m.
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B_Man writes:
Right RBN. You are way too good and smart to be a lowly police officer and try to make a difference. Your right, this is a sad story. Its very sad that a man made a poor decision and had to suffer consequences. Correct, no doubt, no argument. Read Colorado State Statutes about use of Deadly Force and then tell me this wasnt justified. Just because it wasnt justified to you doesnt mean it was wrong. I cant and wont speak of other peoples critical incident actions, that would make me you. But I will tell you that I find it hilarious that in Colorado alone, there are over 5,000 LEO's (Law Enforcement Officers) and based on a couple of shootings in a short time frame, all cops are trigger happy "murderers" as you put it. In my department we handled over 700,000 calls for service last year and DPD had more than that, but you can find one, ten, twenty questionable incidents to attack because you are some sort of expert? Do the math. Your probably the whiner that calls police three times a night, anonymously of course, that whines the neighbors are too loud, but dont have the courage to go ask them to turn down the music. Or the guy who calls because there are teenagers staring at you, or my favorite, the six year old kid who is 'out of control' of the parent. Or maybe your the one who calls about the neihgbors dog who pooped in your yard. Its not hard to find bad cops, and heres a news flash, the rest of us try and get rid of them faster than anyone else ever will. We live by the motto of honor, duty and integrity for a reason. We are all fathers, mothers, sons and daughters too. Has anyone asked how the children of the officers are in this? Of course not. Has anyone asked how the wives of these officers are that have to live through this? Of course not. Yes though RBN, very sad story for the children that this man made this decision in front of his kids. But when you can say that you have to live your life knowing that you took someones life in the performance of your duties, then your words might have some meaning. But they dont and I say again do not speak of that which you do not understand, or are afraid to do. And you can call me an idiot if you wish, but remember that I may have to be the idiot that has to save your life some day, and I hope I dont hesitate thinking about how the liberal media and whiners will view my actions. I will make sure there are no children around, no one that might be offended by bad language and the sight of guns and violence. I will think of all your posts and the like that think I should run up and hug this man and tell him all will be alright and that we can talk this out while singing kumbaya. But then you and I will be dead having been gutted, and my kids and family will wonder why I didnt act sooner. But we'll have another funeral for a cop and talk about what a great guy I was but that I didnt do my duty to protect and serve you.
May 22, 2008
2:50 p.m.
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B_Man writes:
And RBN, dont even start with the Aurora shooting. You dont know sh@%, so dont try. Completely different situations. Great job DPD AND APD officers. Stay safe.
May 22, 2008
2:54 p.m.
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mojambo writes:
Here, Here to Bman
Thanks for your service
And your insight
May 22, 2008
3:05 p.m.
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denverchick writes:
DPD did a great job. It is not an easy job, and sometimes you have to make the hard choice. They gave him verbal and non-verbal signs and he chose not to listen. A gun pointed at you means stop in any language. My heart goes out to his family, but he made that bed…
May 22, 2008
3:05 p.m.
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B_Man writes:
mojambo-
Thank you, we work for you, and RBN of course....
May 22, 2008
3:36 p.m.
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artstarzz writes:
The fact is thou shalt not kill . Not even if you think it is justified . Simple rule really . If you can't follow this simple rule . You should not carry a gun . I'm sure this man thought the cops came to protect him . Maybe he is the real fool in this story . Serve and protect . Maybe they thought they had to protect this man from himself . There are many maybes in this story . Maybe we will learn the truth . I do agree with BRN . This man did not deserve to die . Slapping your wife getting drunk is not a crime punishable by death . If it was there would be less people in this forum .
May 22, 2008
3:39 p.m.
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Fresh writes:
rbn,
wow you are stupid!
seek help
May 22, 2008
3:55 p.m.
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Fresh writes:
same goes for you artstarzz
you are pathetic
May 22, 2008
3:56 p.m.
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Oh_Wise_One writes:
artzstar- just because you through a "thou" in like it's biblical doesn't make you right. Learn the definition of kill and murder. Learn the definition of self defense. When a crazy drunk man holding a knife comes at you, it's self defense.
May 22, 2008
4:18 p.m.
Suggest removal
American100 writes:
Posted by RBN on May 22, 2008 at 2:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"Fact: The cops were called to help him
Fact: He was bleeding
Fact: He is a diabetic
Fact: He was murdered
Do any of you know anything about people suffering from low blood sugar?"
CRY ME A RIVER RBN- That idiot begged for death. He was not murdered, he killed himself, and in front of his family. Also not an intelligent sounding group.
I have a diabetic sister in law. She has never threatened anyone because of her low blood sugar. You're just dumb as a brick.
May 22, 2008
5:24 p.m.
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nayla34u writes:
regardless this man was killed in front of his children. can any of you imagine their pain. One guy one knife foue or move police. They didn't have to shoot and kill him.It's just a shame and I don't believe he got what he deserved. It sounded like he was under a lot of stress because of his recent separation. My sympathy and prayers go out to this family.
May 22, 2008
6:42 p.m.
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HOOK writes:
"Posted by CalebKropf on May 21, 2008 at 7:42 p.m. (Suggest removal)
A posting by the user HOOK at 7:20 p.m. was removed because it was a copyright violation. Users may post links to other sites to make their point.
Caleb Kropf
Assistant Interactive Producer
Rocky Mountain News"
Come on RMN/Caleb, you know darn well if I wasn’t so critical, and pointing out your real motives, as well as the truth, this would have never been removes. Then you come up with this bogus excuse for removing it lets face it, your little feelings were hurt and you had to find a way to get back. What a joke this paper is, God for bid someone point out just how bias the RMN is, wow is me. That article was printed in a published to the public newspaper, copyright violation, ok, I'm sorry, but that article is printed/posted for public view. I never claimed responsibility for writing/publishing/profiting from it, in fact, the thing clearly stated where it came from, giving the original credit.
Let’s face the real music, if you weren’t so angry at me for exposing the TRUTH about your blatant disgust for the DPD, and anyone who opposes illegal immigration, nobody at the RMN would have cared.
Instead of messing with the little poor small people (me), why don’t you get up off your duffs and try to get the real story about what happened out there that night. But I know you wont, it’s too much work, and you don’t want your readers to know the truth, at least without your bias suggestive slant on it anyway. Keep up the good work, hope you are proud of your great reporting.........yeah....right.........so are we!
At least a majority of these posters see right through your smoke and mirrors, too bad you can not pull the wool over everyone’s eyes.
I read your trashy paper online for pure entertainment, which is why
I am so glad that few people even buy your paper anymore, no news, no real unbiased reporting, and no money from us, your paper is circling the drain.
May 22, 2008
6:56 p.m.
Suggest removal
dirty writes:
RBM-As you are so much smarter than the cops and the cops didn't need to "murder" the poor violent alcoholic wife beating criminal immigrant I'll volunteer to set up an experiment with you*.
You get a gun in a holster and I get a knife. I stand 20 feet from you. Then I attack you with the knife. Sadly (kinda) you would die..Try to do a little reserach on the 21 Foot Rule and knife combat before you sprout nonsense on a public forum.
*Moderators, obviosuly this for for illustrative purposes only, and not in fact a threat against an idiot's wellbeing.
May 22, 2008
6:56 p.m.
Suggest removal
HOOK writes:
http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_934...
Here is the link, get on it quick cause I am sure they will find a way to remove this to. For those of you who get a chance, check it out real quick, compare the RMN's version to this one, it clearly shows how slanted the RMN is being with this story. Come on RMN, you all can do better than you are.
May 22, 2008
6:59 p.m.
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dirty writes:
nayla34u, so it would have been ok if he had been shot while his anchor babies were looking the other way? Give me a break.
Maybe the cops should have let the scumbag stab them until the family stopped looking.....
May 22, 2008
7:21 p.m.
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johnson writes:
The relatives and neighbors were ordered by the police to go indoors. They refused the orders. They would not have witnessed the shooting had they obeyed police orders. all these potential lawsuit witnesses should be arrested for disobeying a direct police order.
May 22, 2008
7:25 p.m.
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HOOK writes:
Naw Dirty, with people like nayla34u, they would have been wrong the too, then nayla34u would have been posting = Ohhh, those lazy Denver Cops, they just let that guy stab up his family and did nothing to intervene because the family was not white.
Really though, think about it, isn’t that the reality, no matter what the cops would have done, in nayla34u's eyes it would have been wrong.
May 23, 2008
6:55 a.m.
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artstarzz writes:
What is there to learn ? The words are Thou shalt not kill . The words are simple . They are now in English . As many try to twist the facts these word remain the same . Thou Shalt Not Kill . I see the same people over and over saying the same racist things . I see the same people twisting the truth to fit their lame argument . I didn't create the words Thou Shalt Not Kill . I just repeated them . But as usual , Its shoot the messenger mentality . No pun intended.
May 23, 2008
8:53 a.m.
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RBN writes:
Knife combat lol, you guys are morons. (hold on, let me sip my coffee in my nice office and thank the lord for the morning)...Okay now where was I? That's right. Idiots. Get a knife and hand me a gun and i assure you, you will be shot in the leg, I will call the police and you, scum, will be in jail. I on the other hand will be enjoying my coffee just like today, looking forward to the weekend. I am sure.
May 23, 2008
8:56 a.m.
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RBN writes:
For my money there is nothing better then provoking idiots. LOL, If you all ever need a job, look me up. I need some help with the lawn.
May 23, 2008
11:15 a.m.
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missmilehi writes:
My heartfelt thank you to Cesarec and Pappas.
May 24, 2008
9:21 p.m.
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dirty writes:
RBN, your naviety is quite touching.
Try to educate yourself just a little. I don't expect you to believe me, but try googling a few terms like "21 foot rule" "edged weapon survival" "edged weapon defense" etc. But of course as the wealth of informed opinion and experience out there won't conform to your narrowly held views, I don't hold out much hope you will.
I taught for many years(among other subjects) edged weapon defense. Military, law enforcement and "contractor" experience, now "retired" aged 55, so the kind offer of a job really isn't neccesary.
So once again, if I have a knife, you have gun and we are within 20 feet of each other, you will die. You will not get a shot off, won't shoot me in the leg. As for the whole round to the leg deal: I have seen plenty of folks shot in various parts of their body, spoken with hundreds more...and one shot in the leg ain't gonna cut it.
Unfortuantely many people have the same mis-guided, ill-informed opiniosn as yourself and it has cost them their lives.
BTW-If you ever need a job I have some guns that need cleaning...