At least the FBI could recognize abuse

Rocky Mountain News

Wednesday, May 21, 2008

At least one government agency, the FBI, felt the administration's harsh treatment of detainees, which top Bush officials repeatedly tried to justify, was wrong.

A report by the Justice Department's inspector general, long delayed because of infighting between the department and the Pentagon over how much should be made public, praised FBI agents for refusing to join harsh and abusive interrogation techniques by the military and CIA in Iraq, Afghanistan and Guantanamo Bay. The agents described some of the techniques as "borderline torture." At the very least the techniques were abusive - and therefore banned under international law.

In 2002, FBI director Robert Mueller ordered his agents not to participate in joint interrogations where techniques prohibited by the FBI were used. Some of the agents complained to their higher-ups, and some even created a "war crimes" folder, but their complaints failed to move the top reaches of the Justice Department.

The bureau and the agents were in a difficult position. The inspector general's report shows that many clearly believed this was wrong, even illegal, but the political appointees in the department's own Office of Legal Counsel were generating legal opinions justifying the practices. It's doubtful that the White House, which believed there were few limits on the president's powers to fight the war on terror, would have listened.

The White House has consistently maintained that "the abuse of prisoners is not and never has been U.S. policy." Shackling in stress positions, being threatened with dogs, extreme sleep deprivation, deafening music, bright lights, isolation and being forced to wear a bra and behave like a dog might strike some people as abusive.

The FBI's former head of counterterrorism, Pasquale D'Amuro, told The Wall Street Journal, "I honestly don't believe these techniques were effective. And, frankly, I thought it was an embarrassment for our country to be engaged in this type of activity."

A lingering embarrassment, we would add.

• May 21, 2008

  9:01 p.m.

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  Sweetpickle writes:

  They were only following orders. Isn't that the standard excuse.

• May 21, 2008

  9:31 p.m.

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  Froward69 writes:

  Your Republican administration. 8 years of this neglect of the United States' integrity around the World.

  it will take mere moments at the ballot box to go in the correct direction in bringing back the America We all can respect, and admire.

  Obama '08

• May 21, 2008

  9:52 p.m.

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  Froward69 writes:

  (edit) "ABUSE of the United States' integrity around the World."

• May 22, 2008

  7:34 a.m.

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  JYP3500 writes:

  A few isolated cases of prisoner abuse have the wild-eyed liberals flapping their arms again.

  Funny, they don’t mention the public beheadings of prisoners by Muslim captors. Or the meat grinders and true torture chambers that Saddam used on his prisoners.

  There’s a simple question that will end the whole argument: Who would you rather be captured by...Muslims or Americans?

• May 22, 2008

  7:43 a.m.

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  sheepherder writes:

  Give me Americans anytime JYP! It's war, not our pansy American justice system. Do what you got to do to get the information. Thank god the FBI isnt in charge.

• May 22, 2008

  8:27 a.m.

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  Froward69 writes:

  yeah sheepherder, Americans with that "pansy American justice system" linked to that pesky Bill of rights, you rethugs so abhor. you just cant lock people up for having a free thought can you.
  traitor!

• May 22, 2008

  9:04 a.m.

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  JYP3500 writes:

  Froward69, I'm confused. Exactly what "rights" have you personally lost?

• May 22, 2008

  9:43 a.m.

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  777J writes:

  JYP3500
  Because you personally have not been locked in a prison cell without a trial does not mean that the 5th Amendment has not been violated. Because you personally have not been illegally wire tapped does not mean the 4th Amendment has not been ignored (oh wait - maybe you were, you just don't know it - since Bush tapped millions of calls).
  I could go on for a very long time here, but it suffice to say this administration has done everything in its power to weaken the most important document in this country's history. Remember Thomas Jefferson once said "those that would trade their freedom for security deserve neither". Finally, ask yourself what makes this a great nation and how did we get here?

  Don't be a fool, let the Bush administration go, it has been a black mark on this nations history. It is time to show you have a mind of your own and as they say "if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck - it's probably a duck". You now have a chance to do something about it this November.

• May 22, 2008

  9:48 a.m.

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  Froward69 writes:

  Personally? One. the right to care for my terminally ill father in my home. Instead of in a republican controlled Hospice, ordered by a republican controlled court, in a republican controlled county.
  even though I was appointed his conservator and guardian via his Will. the rationale being "As I would facilitate his death" (he was already terminal!!)
  Caring for him in my home would have left an inheritance for his grand kids. Instead of forcing debt upon the family, lining the pockets of the neo-cons.

  beyond that I defend rights for all of humanity. Habious Corpus, remember that?

• May 22, 2008

  9:49 a.m.

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  JimmyB writes:

  Forward69

  "Your Republican administration. 8 years of this neglect of the United States' integrity around the World.

  it will take mere moments at the ballot box to go in the correct direction in bringing back the America We all can respect, and admire.

  Obama '08"

  The "correct direction" you indicate is not a given, but is only an opinion expressed by those who support Obama's election. Should Obama win the election this fall, the ONLY guarantee would be a DIFFERENT direction. His actions and inactions as President will determine whether or not it's the "correct direction."

  JYP3500

  I'm not sure which "rights" Forward69 has lost, but, you as you can see, it wasn't his "right to free speech."

• May 22, 2008

  10:27 a.m.

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  Froward69 writes:

  JimmyB, how about that wire tap you have no control over. oh yeah the government got stopped only when they failed to pay the bill.

  insofar as I utilizing our rights to free speech. I am fed up with neo-cons running roughshod over and dragging down our great country. I refuse to idly sit by and allow rethuglicans continue to plunder our Democracy.

• May 22, 2008

  10:39 a.m.

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  JSeifert writes:

  Question to all:

  The Police catch a Terrorist they know he has information that will stop a VX bomb from going off at the democratic convention killing thousands including 2 contenters for president, 30 members of congress. It will kill everyone in the convention center outright and 1/10th of denver You have 30 min.

  What do you do?

  For those that do not know what VX is it is the most damerous nerve gas out in the world and the most made.

• May 22, 2008

  1:15 p.m.

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  JimmyB writes:

  Forward69

  "Personally? One. the right to care for my terminally ill father in my home. Instead of in a republican controlled Hospice, ordered by a republican controlled court, in a republican controlled county."

  Did you actually determine ALL those people involved in denying your "right" to care for you father were "republican", or, as your posts indicate, is your hatred of "republicans" so blinding, you believe everyone who didn't back you in this situation, must be "republican", because of the outcome?

  Since you've only presented your side, anyone would be unable to determine whether or not, you were wronged.

  ...and

  "...how about that wire tap you have no control over. oh yeah the government got stopped only when they failed to pay the bill.

  insofar as I utilizing our rights to free speech. I am fed up with neo-cons running roughshod over and dragging down our great country. I refuse to idly sit by and allow rethuglicans continue to plunder our Democracy."

  To which "wire tap" do your refer? Are you saying Democrat administrations have never authorized "wire taps" of any kind, or are "wire taps" only wrong when it's authorized by a "republican" administration? What's the determining factor of whether a Democrat or "republican" administration are right, or wrong when using "wire taps?"

  Your argument is flawed, as both Democrat and "republican" administrations are right, or wrong, depending on a given situation and one's point of view.

• May 22, 2008

  6:03 p.m.

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  anarchist writes:

  JSiefert, hope hillary and her supporters are in the springs, and kennedy is in massofchewystuff.

• May 22, 2008

  6:12 p.m.

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  anarchist writes:

  Is this the same FBI that helped to take children from thier parents without due process in Texas, and since then the third circuit court of appeals has ruled against the state of Texas saying it had no right to take 440 children, please, define abuse.

• May 23, 2008

  6:24 a.m.

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  KaySieverding writes:

  What the Bush administration did is allow crimes to be perpetuated by men in suits while they crack down on men in jeans. Current news articles show that in the former Soviet Union government officials at least sometimes call judges to tell them how to rule. That is the same as what happened in the U.S. You simply can't count on the written law anymore. For instance, the FBI records show that I was convicted of "5001 civil contempt" but that is not on the list of federal sentencing guidelines as a jailable offense. What I can't believe is the sacrifice citizens of the past went thru for centuries to develop our constitutional protections and how those constitutional protections, such as first amendment rights to petition the courts, have now been thrown in the trash.

• May 23, 2008

  7:32 a.m.

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  anarchist writes:

  KaySieverding posted in part "Current news articles show that in the former Soviet Union government officials at least sometimes call judges to tell them how to rule.", look at Cal's (RTD) land grab then tell Me it doesnt happen here.

• May 23, 2008

  8:25 a.m.

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  davis_x_machina writes:

  Applying the same logic(?) that says if I lost no rights personally then no rights at all were abridged;I personally did not know a single soul killed in the obscene attacks of 9/11 nor do I know a single soul who knows a single soul killed that dreadful day, does this mean it wasn't my country which was attacked? There is an important American document which, I believe, states that ALL men are created equal and endowed by their creator with "certain inalienable rights". While I realize this document does not have the force of law it did for quite some time stand as the banner under which we tried to convince the rest of the world that our vision and system of government was the best anyone could strive for. It seems the height of hypocrisy to believe that those inalienable rights endowed by the creator could be suspended or withdrawn at the whim of the legal apparatus of one country. Either we triumph in any struggle against any "enemy" with our values and principle intact, or the land of the free and the home of the brave was a convenient fiction, as was any talk about a nation of laws based on those values and principles.

• May 23, 2008

  10:57 a.m.

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  JohnHKennedy writes:

  Hogwash!!! The following is Hogwash!

  "will take mere moments at the ballot box to go in the correct direction in bringing back the America We all can respect"

  The Iraq War will go on for years no matter who wins the White House and Cheney and Bush will escape accountability for the WMD Lies that caused the deaths of over 4,000 and the maiming of over 30,000 US Soldiers and thousands of Iraqis.

  That is a certainty unless we, You and I can work together to force the House Democrats to hold Impeachment Hearings prior to the November Election.

  After Nov. 4, the House Democrats will want to forget all about Cheney and Bush lying to get the Democrats to approve the invasion and occupation of a country that did not attack us.

  Prior to the election We The People have the power to force the House Democrats to do what needs to be done, hold impeachment hearings. After November 4, we lose all of that power until just before the next election.

  It is time to stand up for Our Constitution and the Troops in Iraq.

  John H Kennedy, Denver, 43 year Democratic voter & Obama delegate/Denver Co , organizer, Impeach Colorado Coalition http://ImpeachCO.com

  ..

• May 24, 2008

  8:24 a.m.

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  AngelontheSidelines writes:

  Google search;
  The US government has videotapes of boys being sodomized at Abu Ghraib prison.

  Yes our men raped boys in front of their parents, Saddam would be proud.

• May 24, 2008

  9:47 a.m.

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  anarchist writes:

  Great, just great, today Hillary is apologizing to obama for an imagined slight while explaining why she doesn’t end her campaign, she mentioned RFK, younger brother of assassinated JFK, and obama has fits. Teddy ( Chappaquiddick swim club) Kennedy recently was found to be terminal, and endorses obama, just when I hoped the Kennedy name might be put to rest here comes the impeacher Kennedy, good grief. He proposes to impeach Bush/Cheney for “Cheney and Bush lying to get the Democrats to approve the invasion and occupation of a country that did not attack us.”. Mr. Kennedy, are you unaware that the 2003 senate intelligence committee included senator John Edwards, another obama supporter? Or that the senate that voted to give Bush the authorization to act included Ted Kennedy and John Kerry? Perhaps it was the democrats that lied to Bush and gave faulty information and an endorsement to act that should be chastised. Rant all you want Mr. Kennedy, but facts are facts, if we are going to impeach or chastise, lets get to the roots, and that includes John Edwards. Isn’t it strange that first obama was in a tizzy over Bush’s speech, that didn’t mention him, and now again when Hillary speaks of RFK, am I the only one that sees a pattern of behavior here? Also Mr. Kennedy, you are off topic of this thread.

• May 24, 2008

  9:51 a.m.

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  anarchist writes:

  "The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men."
  - Plato -
  Fear the government that fears your gun and your 2nd amendment right to own the same.

• May 24, 2008

  2:46 p.m.

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  SASQUATCH writes:

  CLUB GITMO became such a popular tropical-oceanside resort that they remained all booked up for years--nobody wanted to leave after putting on 25 pounds and getting 3 squares a day.