Gang activity 'simmering, like a powder keg'
Crusader sees neglect, boredom, anger in city teens
By Bill Scanlon, Rocky Mountain News (Contact)
Tuesday, May 20, 2008
Preston Gannaway / The Rocky
Former Crips gang member Gary Armstrong talks with middle school students Tuesday at an Open Door Youth Gang Alternative program at Wyatt-Edison Charter School. Armstrong was a friend of slain Crips co-founder Michael Asberry.
If neglect, alienation, abuse and boredom push teens into gangs, it's no wonder that gang membership in metro Denver is counted in the thousands, a former gang member said Tuesday.
"We have a community living in fear, up in arms and really upset," anti-gang crusader Terrance Roberts said. "We have children that are murdering one another."
Saturday's shooting death of Michael Asberry, co-founder of the Denver Crips street gang, has exacerbated the problem, said Roberts, who runs the Denver-
based Prodigal Son Initiative.
Organizations that try to give young people an alternative to gangs aren't keeping up with the fervor for revenge, Roberts and other anti-gang leaders said.
A spike in gang activity erupted in Denver's Cole-Whittier neighborhood after the killing of Denver Broncos cornerback Darrent Williams last year, Roberts said.
Even in periods of relative calm, he said, "We still have kids leading traumatized lives, not working, nobody giving them a chance.
"It's always simmering, like a powder keg. It takes one little incident like a leader like Michael Asberry dying."
Aurora police said Tuesday they are confident Asberry's killing was not gang-related, but was triggered by a personal dispute.
Police estimate the city has 12,000 to 13,000 gang members. Roberts said he thinks the number is 20,000.
The Rev. Leon Kelly's group, Open Door Youth Gang Alternatives, lists 320 deaths of metro-area young people between 2000 and 2006. The list, titled "Died Young, Died Violently," hasn't been updated since then.
But deaths aren't the only thing that should be counted, Roberts said.
"We're also dealing with kids incarcerated, caught with weapons, kids who should still be in high school going to jail," he said.
Roberts is a former gang member who spent time in prison.
He said his turnaround started the day he finally heard the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.'s "I've Been to the Mountaintop" speech, which seemed to foreshadow his assassination in Memphis, Tenn., in 1968.
"That really intrigued me, and led me to reading Gandhi, who was a big influence on Martin Luther King," Roberts said.
"I studied the Bible," he said. "I knew in my heart these were the kind of men I wanted to emulate."
scanlon@RockyMountainNews.com or 303-954-2897
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May 21, 2008
7:25 a.m.
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Fred writes:
If the so called men in these neighborhoods won't stand up and take responsibility for their families and children then the women HAVE too.
Ladies,
Quit allowing these irresponsible men to reproduce. It’s plain and simple. Cut off the nookie until the ship is righted. I guarantee the thug life isn’t so glorious when they can’t socialize with women. And besides that, you’ll just be preparing them for their future of segregation from society anyway.
I do not believe the “help” can come from the outside. I believe a leader has to arise from the ghetto and free the people.
It has become ever apparent that a large percentage of the individuals in these down trodden communities believe the world (or the man) is there to oppress them.
The most popular leaders of minority communities seem to constantly preach about the supposed oppression of their races yet they ignore and in many cases propagate the divisions and fear and blame “the blue eyes”. Hitler used those very same tactics very successfully, for a while. His target was admittedly different.
The truth may be hard to face but it can save you.
There is no vast conspiracy by whites to keep minorities down.
Hopefully these Denver neighborhoods can step up to the challenge and prove the outsiders wrong. They deserve better then Middle-East type thousand year wars.
May 21, 2008
7:32 a.m.
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MarineGrunt writes:
Damn... Fred hit it on the head! Well said, sir!!!
May 21, 2008
8:08 a.m.
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tm3869 writes:
Fred,
We clashed yesterday, but as a woman of color, today I say I agree with you. It has to change and it has to change quickly, and yes, it has to come from within. We need to work together to help each other out.....
May 21, 2008
8:11 a.m.
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Finding_Forever writes:
Right on Fred!
May 21, 2008
8:16 a.m.
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steel writes:
Well said Fred.
May 21, 2008
8:24 a.m.
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jacka writes:
Amen Fred, same applies for all women who allow breeding when the man can't stand and deliver.
May 21, 2008
8:24 a.m.
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Fred writes:
Tm,
Our clash yesterday was probably due to my inefficiencies as a writer.
I was trying to explain that it doesn’t do any good to correct white racists while ignoring the racism from within minority groups.
I personally try to call it as I see it. I see things going in the wrong direction. I see whites being blamed for all shortcomings regardless if fault. This is alienating well meaning white people. “White guilt” and those that wish to foster it are dividing the races. They are not mending bridges. In addition, it gives minorities an excuse not to succeed.
I escaped that line of thinking because I believed in my ability to overcome poverty and injustice. I’ve learned a lot along the way.
Sorry for the misunderstanding.
May 21, 2008
8:44 a.m.
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tm3869 writes:
Fred,
You are good decent man, and I have the utmost respect for you. That is what these forums should reflect. Thanks for starting the morning off right...
I too, apologize for the misunderstanding....
May 21, 2008
9:29 a.m.
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prayerfulone writes:
well said Fred.
May 21, 2008
9:35 a.m.
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sunshinestate writes:
Well said Fred- but will good change happen??
Like so many surprises about the interior west, gang activity and vast swaths of area 'off limits' to whites because of crime in the Denver area may come as a surprise to some. After all, one of the factors fueling interior west growth has been 'low crime' and many assume leaving ghetto areas behind when moving to the 'west'.
May 21, 2008
9:47 a.m.
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pwern writes:
With the illigitmacy rate within the inner-city minority community running north of 90%, it's not hard to understand why these fatherless young boys view gangs as a proxy for an absentee adult male in which to emulate. Until that changes and the men in these communities start assuming responsibility for the children they sire, this gang problem will never go away. The system's not failing them, their own community is.
As much as I despised my father's discipline and control when I was a teenager, I now understand it was he who offered a role model for how responsible grown men are supposed to act. My son is the ultimate beneficiary of that, and as a result he'll be attending university in a few years instead of heading to a correctional institution like so many of these gang-bangers.
What a complete waste to see these kids dead or in prison - but like I said, blame the men that father them for not understanding the cowardice behind walking away after the first 15 minutes of fatherhood.
May 21, 2008
9:48 a.m.
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theairdog writes:
Usually, it doesn't do any good to try to correct any racist, whether they be of a majority or minority.
Sad but true.
But we must keep on trying nonetheless. It is for certain that if we don't try, nothing will happen.
May 21, 2008
9:59 a.m.
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JMac writes:
Very well put Fred. As you stated, the change that needs to be made has to come from within the community. Again, very well said!!
May 21, 2008
10:17 a.m.
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Scott writes:
Fred,
Your posting is just plain EXCELLENT!
Hey RMN! Why don't you print Fred's posting on your front page instead of the usual "stuff". Fred has nail the issue ... even if it is non-PC.
Again Fred, your posting is excellent.
Scott
May 21, 2008
10:29 a.m.
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ToeNee writes:
Neglect, alienation, abuse and boredom push teens into gangs.
I agree with Fred,
(family values are disintegrating in this country) but it seems to me we still have teenagers who could use a summer job? Not to just fight boredom, but to teach them the value of money, money management and paying bills. (In the old days it's what 15 year olds did to buy first cars at age 16)
Real life tools no public school will ever teach them.
Trouble is we have businesses who only want cheap labor and a government who is all too eager to provide them with illegal immigrants who will work for slave wages.
(minimum wage rule do not apply to illegal aliens)
Sure we need to restore the family unit, but if teenagers have nothing better to do, they will do drugs, have sex, join gangs or maybe just sit around play video games and get fat and lazy?
May 21, 2008
10:37 a.m.
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OneCreek writes:
Even if there is a "conspiracy" among a small, but powerful group of whites to keep black people down, Fred's arguments are the only way to counter their efforts.
Women, regardless of color, are the individuals(outside of rape)who must give consent to engage in sexual activity. Unfortunately, the vast majority of women view "sex" as an equivalent to "love". "Sex",is a counterfeit to love.
Conversely, most men view sex as an opportunity to dump their D.N.A. inside a hopelessly naieve recipient. Compliments are readily showered, coupled with all kind of promises, and the woman "wants" to believe. As often as not, she views the males offer as a way out of her parents home, or if already emancipated, as an avenue to emotional and financial security. Rarely does engaging in sex accomplish those ends. As a higher percentage of women succumb to enjoin in such behavior, a social "critical mass" is reached, and formerly taboo behavior becomes common. Concurrent comes the social disaster, and all the associated pathologies we have been witness to in the last three decades.
A man of decent moral fiber will work at his job, and strive to show that he loves you by demonstrating to you that a tangible future is possible. It may sound cliche, but "waiting" until marriage will not wreck your life. Rather, it may well save it and that of your offspring, let alone your community at large. Regardless of arguments against abstinence, which somehow for millenia was the norm, a 70% illegitimacy rate cannot be a factor the black community should be proud of. Women, act like "LADIES", and get control over yourselves. Then the "community" will have no choice but to join you!
May 21, 2008
10:53 a.m.
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rurude writes:
Oh, I see now the women are the reason for this behavior. Like boys turn to gangs b/c of neglect, alienation, abuse and boredom. The girls turn to the boys for what they are looking for in life. The girls are also neglected, alienationed, abused and bored. I don't know about many people but it is hard to motivate yourself for a better community and future as a young woman when you don't have the basic necessities; love, respect and education.
No excusing - the truth.
Peace
May 21, 2008
11:16 a.m.
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MsValeriah writes:
Aside of a couple of posts, it's great to see some positive dialogue taking place instead of the usual hateful invective that takes place on these forums.
The posts yesterday regarding Michael Asbury's death and the incident in Montbellow lead me to examine my own thinking. I grew up in white suburban Jefferson County. I think of myself as being a non-prejudiced person, but when I'm honest with myself I have to admit that isn't totally true. In ways, I am prejudiced. There's very little malice involved with that. Most of it comes from lack of understanding or awareness of what it's like to live in a different environment than the one I live in. When I become aware that I'm thinking in a bigoted way, I do my best to call myself on it, simply because I do believe that it's wrong. Peace and change start with each and every one of us making a choice in our own lives to do what is right, and then actively going forth in our communities and doing what we can to make a difference. I salute everyone who is doing anything to bring forth positive change. If there's anything else this one suburban woman can do to help, please let me know.
May 21, 2008
11:16 a.m.
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HolierThanThou writes:
The recipe for turning civilization into gangland tribalism is simple.
Start by taking away jobs.
Then let poverty, hopelessness, and despair do the rest.
But what you're really going to love is when this popular recipe comes to your neighborhood.
May 21, 2008
11:31 a.m.
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dirkle writes:
Bump, Fredo! No puzsie till the mess is cleaned up.
May 21, 2008
11:35 a.m.
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Rangerjoe1 writes:
So now the Rocky Mt. News is going to write an editorial piece on "WHY NO JOBS". NOT. They must be really struggling about this problem. Where did all these jobs go? Beginners level jobs that will always pay beginner wages. Why? you guessed it They won't work for slave wages like ILLEGAL Immigrant will. Corporate builders are paying 20 yr low in wages, and Ritters, Salazar, Owens and the like are whistling there way through the dark. The gangs just does the job of what our weak kneed politician refuse to do, follow the law, Sorry their laws are different from our own.
May 21, 2008
11:41 a.m.
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Shaggy writes:
What I think is sad that we don't hear from our Mayor about what he is doing about gang bangers.
May 21, 2008
11:41 a.m.
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redwhiteandBLUE writes:
Props for Fred!!
May 21, 2008
11:41 a.m.
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My_experiences writes:
I want to first say that it does take a VILLAGE to raise a child.
Fred... I can understand where you are coming from, however I feel you know only one side of the coin. The problem with Denver is that we are so comfortable drawing lines in the sand and saying what THEY need to do instead what can I or WE do. News flash...gang violence is no longer a black issue. There are documented white gangs popping up in the Tech Center and Cherry Creek. So it is going to take more than the black community.
Our local goverment like to bury their head and say the Denver does not have a gang problem. As a result does not offer resources or even apply for federal grants that have been implemented for cities that do.
And yes, we do have leaders stepping up from amongst the black community who had came from that lifestyle and help future generations make better decisions. Please take the time to goggle Terrance Roberts, the executive director of the Prodgial Son Iniaitive and you will see, hey there are black leaders out there that unfortunately are not recognized by the media until someone who is more important that others(I guess)is murdered.
Never once did I read or hear anyone say its the white people keeping us down. So please get off your high white horses and recognize this. The gangsters start out as KIDS without directions and look to others who have no guidance either. The Blind leading the blind. When these kids evolve and recognize that is not the way, there are laws and doors slammed in their face for mistakes they made as TEENS.
Walk around Park Hill and you will see a white lady walking her dog living on the same street as a black teen washing his car listening to hip hop. Denver is a diverse city, a child with a idle mind and no clear directions would welcome any adult who cares and wants to mentor them regardless of their color. Lets not make this a black-white issue, but a issue that we as a village can help correct.
May 21, 2008
11:48 a.m.
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Devil_Dog writes:
Good Job Fred
Education is the key to any civilization. And I don't mean spending more money on public education either, nor do I mean cutting programs for the kids. Lopping of the excess fat at the top would be a great start though. Also a High school education was made available to all US citizens free of charge years ago, it is no longer adequate, a college education is required today, and that's what should be provided. Yes it will cost us up front but it will be our salvation in the long term.
May 21, 2008
11:50 a.m.
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d_dub writes:
Give these kid an opportunity to achieve something by giving them jobs, training, and other outlets besides gangs. Where's the city's government at with alternatives for these kids? SAD story
May 21, 2008
11:53 a.m.
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Buckwheat writes:
Nice job Fred, and well articulated.
May 21, 2008
11:59 a.m.
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prayerfulone writes:
hasslicher_jude,
why do you insist on being so negative and sarcastic? you said we've really cleaned up the place, you know you have not done anything to clean up nothing and you continue to pollute the air with your foul mouth. stop taking credit for something you shouldn't
May 21, 2008
12:03 p.m.
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My_experiences writes:
hasslicher_jude
LOL!!!
I doubt the you are a white person who is capable of even cleaning your house. You are ignorant and obviously know nothing about those neighborhoods. White people have always resided in these areas. Matter of fact South Park Hill has had almost nothing but and yes the commercial developments have helped (Long overdue by the way) but what neighborhood wouldn't benefit from such a large development?
May 21, 2008
12:05 p.m.
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Devil_Dog writes:
hasslicher_jude
You are to stupid to find your ass with both hands. And I thank you for your prompt and well timed post. You have proven my point.
It is obvious that you have need of a proper education.
May 21, 2008
12:12 p.m.
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ATLBorn79 writes:
Hey sunshinestate,
I assume you're from Florida. You can see where I'm from by looking at my screen name. Now, with that said...
Ghetto areas?? Denver may have some rougher neighborhoods, but ghettos? I've lived here for 5 years, have driven around basically the entire metro area, and have YET to see an actual ghetto. I've also yet to see an "off-limits" area for whites; to the contrary, I see white people in every part of the city, which is more than I can say for many cities I've been to (including my hometown).
I don't know where in FL you're from, but you should know better than to say Denver has ghettos; in fact Denver is one of the only cities I've been to which DOESN'T have ghettos.
You want ghetto? Try visiting these someday:
West and SW Atlanta
The Overtown and Carol City areas of Miami
North Memphis
5th Ward of Houston
West Birmingham
Southside and Westside Chicago
North Milwaukee
East Oakland
Most of Detroit
Over-the-Rhine Cincinnati
SE Washington D.C.
West Baltimore
North Philly
I DARE any white person to walk through those neighborhoods alone...
May 21, 2008
12:14 p.m.
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breckrider writes:
sorry but hassalicher is correct. no racism just fact. in any city, regardless of where it is, neighborhoods that are taken over by blacks or mexicans go downhill quickly. my hometown of memphis is a war zone right because of black gangs. ganst diciples, crips, bloods and so on are car jacking, home invading, murdering pizza delivery men for $20.00 and the list goes on and on.every neighborhood that has had white flight because of enchroaching crime is now controlled by gangs and crime. sorry if facts piss you off but here goes, straight from the dept. of justice website, blacks make up 15% of the total population in the U.S. but account for 68% of all violent crime and occupy 71% of prison space. i'm sure it is all the white mans fault.
May 21, 2008
12:16 p.m.
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My_experiences writes:
hasslicher_jude
...Or is it a coincidence that once our local government invested in the parks and cleaning up the areas they actually got cleaned up? Its people like you that plague our society with ignorance which only breeds violence. Please log off so those who are actually interested in resolutions can converse.
May 21, 2008
12:18 p.m.
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breckrider writes:
oh yeah, stop breeding. welfare is not a way to afford childred. i'm really sick of seeing young un-wed black mothers with three and four children before they are 21. let the anger fly
May 21, 2008
12:22 p.m.
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breckrider writes:
hey my experiences, open your eyes to reality. facts don't make someone racist, just factual. this is a huge problem within the black community. when someone states factual information they get called ignorant racist. facts are facts.
May 21, 2008
12:23 p.m.
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momof5 writes:
sorry if facts piss you off but here goes, straight from the dept. of justice website, blacks make up 15% of the total population in the U.S. but account for 68% of all violent crime and occupy 71% of prison space. i'm sure it is all the white mans fault.
My point exactly in yesterday's posts. And my question that made so many people angry about the children of this man. What was he doing in their lives? Was he being a positive role model? Was he giving them the educational, financial and spiritual support that they need to grow up to be decent citizens or are they going to follow in his footsteps.
A big part of the problem is the inability of these men to be real fathers to their children. Of course, the players who have numerous children with numberous women make that difficult. How can any man be a real father to his children when they live in different homes with different women?
Children need positive role models - mothers and fathers. If you help create a child it is your obligation to stick around and be a parent to that child.
May 21, 2008
12:27 p.m.
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steel writes:
ATLbred, is that really something to brag about? If you like your ghettos so much, go back to them. We won't miss you.
May 21, 2008
12:31 p.m.
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ATLBorn79 writes:
Oh yeah, I forgot to back my statements up with statistics; so I'll post the murder rate in 2006 for cities under 700,000 http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2006/index...
1. Birmingham--population 231,843. 104 murders. 44.9 per 100,000 people.
2. Baltimore--population 637,556. 276 murders. 43.2 per 100,000 people.
3. New Orleans--population 431,153. 162 murders. 37.6 per 100,000 people.
4. Newark--population 280,877. 105 murders. 37.4 per 100,000 people.
5. St. Louis--population 346,879. 129 murders. 37.2 per 100,000 people.
6. Oakland--population 398,834. 145 murders. 36.4 per 100,000 people.
7. Washington--population 581,530. 169 murders. 29.1 per 100,000 people.
8. Cincinnati--population 309,104. 89 murders. 28.8 per 100,000 people.
9. Buffalo--population 280,494. 74 murders. 26.4 per 100,000 people.
10. Kansas City--population 448,218. 112 murders. 25.0 per 100,000 people.
11. Atlanta--population 485,804. 110 murders. 22.6 per 100,000 people.
12. Memphis--population 680,828. 147 murders. 21.6 per 100,000 people.
28. Denver--population 568,465. 51 murders. 9.0 per 100,000 people.
41. Aurora--population 302,855. 17 murders. 5.6 per 100,000 people.
So let me get this straight. Birmingham, which has a mere 41% of Denver's population, had MORE THAN TWICE as many murders as Denver. Baltimore, which has only 70,000 more people than Denver (and is rapidly losing people) had MORE THAN FIVE TIMES as many murders, and Newark, which has half Denver's population, has TWICE as many murders.
Even better:
Birmingham, which has 70,000 LESS people than Aurora, had more than 6 TIMES as many murders. Newark, which has 20,000 LESS people than Aurora, had OVER 5 TIMES as many murders. Even Buffalo, which isn't generally the first city which comes to mind when you think of crime-ridden cities, had 4.5 TIMES as many murders as Aurora, even though it has 20,000 less people.
Denver/Aurora are solidly in the lower-middle of the pack when it comes to the overall violent crime rankings, as well.
I guess we all better start getting those bulletproof vests ready...
May 21, 2008
12:35 p.m.
Suggest removal
Devil_Dog writes:
hasslicher_jude
My degree in Philosophy has very little to do with anything here but since you asked there it is. My real education came from my parents and the Corps, neither of which you could have lasted ten minutes with. You would have had your bigoted, whiney ass kicked up one side and down the other. As to my vocation, I earn a decent living, but that has no relevance to this discussion either. All honest work deserves respect! Two more subjects you know nothing about, HONEST WORK and RESPECT. You have no more respect for yourself that you do for others. It is obvious that you think of yourself as a small insignificant being, and thusly you overcompensate like a boisterous little Chihuahua.
Have fun nipping at ankles, while the big dogs eat steak! But be careful or one day a big will tire of your antics and have you for lunch.
May 21, 2008
12:37 p.m.
Suggest removal
ATLBorn79 writes:
Steel,
Why do think I moved to Denver? One reason was the out-of-control crime rate back home (the other was traffic and the fact that ATL has just gotten too g*ddamned big; 5.5 million).
I'm white and from a middle-class suburb, not a ghetto, so why would I want to go back? All I was saying was that Denver is very safe compared to most big cities in this country; it was a compliment. If you're so thin-skinned that compliments offend you, then you have issues.
May 21, 2008
12:40 p.m.
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steel writes:
We ALL have issues. Haven't you read any of the posts on here?
May 21, 2008
12:46 p.m.
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ATLBorn79 writes:
I know these people have issues. They act like we live in Detroit or something. They act like they're going to get shot or carjacked just by venturing into the city...
May 21, 2008
12:47 p.m.
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breckrider writes:
wow devil dog, you sound like a petulant child.i'm not getting my way so i'll call people names and throw a temper tantrum. and you were in the corp? and how would you know if hasslicher is employeed or how tough he is?
May 21, 2008
12:48 p.m.
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steel writes:
Atl I know what you're saying. I'm from Milwaukee. I misunderstood your first post.
May 21, 2008
12:50 p.m.
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breckrider writes:
and what do the cities with the highest murder rates have in common? they have very high poverty rates, very high unenployment rates and very high populations of african americans. no racism, just facts.
May 21, 2008
12:52 p.m.
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steel writes:
Breck, if you keep stating facts someone on here will think you're racist...
May 21, 2008
1:08 p.m.
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Devil_Dog writes:
breckrider
Calling names? Coming from a bigot such as yourself that's a laugh. Getting my way? You are the two bigots not getting their way here. Throwing a tantrum? Well laid out discourse is too difficult for you to comprehend so you imagine how it sounds, try again. And for the toughness or lack thereof for hasslicher_jude and all bigots the proof is in the pudding. The hero of all bigots Adolf Hitler committed suicide rather than face judgment. All bigots are cowards, hiding behind tough talk. So keep talking.
May 21, 2008
1:13 p.m.
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Coco writes:
Very true, Fred. However, a lecture to the ladies is not going to stop this cycle because they don't have fathers either. As Dr. Phil says, "someone has to be a hero here" and the only one who can be a father - to a boy or to a girl - is a man. We can see the same things happen in any community, be it inner city, suburban, or rural, when the family breaks down and men are not fathering. ALL you men need to step up and claim your importance in the family. Your sons & daughters need you.
May 21, 2008
1:21 p.m.
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Devil_Dog writes:
hasslicher_jude
Yes I brought up education but not in the context of my education but rather the value of education for all, you interjected my education into the discussion, because I called into question your education based on the drivel you have been putting on this board.
About the toughness of obtaining my degree, no it was relatively easy for me as I possess the ability to think for myself and learn. You, on the other hand would not find it so easy.
And having a respected job means nothing for it is the man that earns respect not his job. Just another point lacking in your education no doubt.
May 21, 2008
1:21 p.m.
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ATLBorn79 writes:
Birmingham--74% black, 25% poverty rate.
Baltimore--64% black, 23% poverty rate.
New Orleans--67% black, 33% poverty rate.
Newark--54% black, 29% poverty rate.
St. Louis--51% black, 22% poverty rate.
Oakland--36% black, 21% poverty rate
Washington--61% black, 26% poverty rate.
Cincinnati--43% black, 20% poverty rate.
Buffalo--37% black, 27% poverty rate.
Kansas City--37% black, 21% poverty rate.
Atlanta--59% black, 23% poverty rate.
Memphis--61% black, 25% poverty rate.
Denver--10% black, 14% poverty rate.
Aurora--13% black, 9% poverty rate.
And before anyone accuses me of being racist...
My best friend is black. No, I don't mean "some of my best friends are black." I mean my BEST friend is black. We've known each other since kindergarten (almost 25 years). I was the best man in his wedding 2 years ago, and he's an engineer living in Orange County, CA.
May 21, 2008
1:27 p.m.
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Fred writes:
I see this thread is already starting to deteriorate so I’ll make this my last post.
My_experiences,
How could you possibly come to the conclusion that I only know one side of the story?
I’ve chosen not to share my past on these blogs for various reasons.
Suffice it to say, my murdered siblings and uncle would disagree with you that I don’t know “the other side of the coin”. The bullet holes in my back, shoulder and arm probably do too. Loosing all but one of my friends from childhood to death or prison gives me a rather solid understanding of the situation. But as I’ve stated, the truth hurts.
I simply didn’t feel the need like others to publish the “being from the hood” as a badge of honor. I earned those in the military escaping where I came from.
Where did I say that gang violence is a black thing? I didn’t. Please don’t confuse me with the idiots on this blog. It doesn’t fit the bill and I suspect I’m pretty well versed on Latin gangs and white gangs. I’ve been in ever to close proximity to them for long periods of time.
Oh, and if I owned a horse, it’d be buckskin with a black main.
Thanks to the rest of you for your nice comments and recognition that I was actually trying to start this thread off with a positive note. I was also trying to offer some suggestions how to correct the problems from within.
The nice tone seemed to last a little while at least.
May 21, 2008
1:28 p.m.
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ATLBorn79 writes:
Steel
Really? My parents are Wisconsinites! My mom's from Wauwatosa and my dad's from Shawano, halfway between Green Bay and Wausau. I'm going up there for a family reunion (ugh) next week; my mom says Milwaukee's gotten really bad in the last 10-15 years (I haven't been up there since '95).
May 21, 2008
1:32 p.m.
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smith writes:
ATLBorn and Breckrider:
Here's one more reality which cannot be ignored:
List of Mayors in U.S. Cities with Top 12 Murder Rates (party affiliation noted):
1. Birmingham-- Mayor Larry Langford (D)
2. Baltimore-- Mayor Sheila Dixon (D)
3. New Orleans-- Mayor Ray Nagin (D)
4. Newark-- Mayor Cory Booker (D)
5. St. Louis-- Mayor Francis G. Slay (D)
6. Oakland-- Mayor Ron Dellums (D)
7. Washington-- Mayor Adrian Fenty (D)
8. Cincinnati-- Mayor Mark Mallory (D)
9. Buffalo-- Mayor Byron Brown (D)
10. Kansas City-- Mayor Mark Funkhouser (D)
11. Atlanta-- Mayor Shirley Franklin (D)
12. Memphis-- Mayor Willie W. Herenton (D)
Inconvenient, eh?
May 21, 2008
1:33 p.m.
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OhBrother writes:
eliminate all black people and ther will be no crime, right? All white people take care of there familes and keep a perfect home, right?
Fred is right that someone from within must stand up, but would the media give that as much coverage as this? I noticed some former black and mexican gang memebers come to schools and try to speak to kids, what about all the former white gang memebrs? wait, white people aren't in gangs...nevermind
May 21, 2008
1:36 p.m.
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Devil_Dog writes:
Fred
Semper Fi
You tried, don't stop trying, soon more will make the effort and something will get done.
May 21, 2008
1:42 p.m.
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JMac writes:
Here are a few facts detailing child molesters....... Just the facts, decipher for yourselves. What do the overwhelming majority of child molesting pedophiles have in common? They are uneducated white Christian males, again, just the facts.
Gender: All offenders were male; females did abduct, but none killed
Age: Mean was 27, range was 14–58, 72% were younger than 30
Race: majority white
Marital history: 60% were not married at time of offense, 24% were divorced, 8% were in common law marriages, 8% were married
Children: 56% had no children at time of offense, 16% only had one child, 20% had two children, no one had three children, and 8% had four or more children
Education: Little formal education; only 8% had some college education
Occupation: Most had lower-level unskilled jobs, only 8% had skilled positions
Military: 76% did not have military history
Religion: 88% grew up in a Christian household and 72% still considered themselves Christian
Animal abuse: 20% had history of animal abuse
Psychiatric: 36% had a psychiatric diagnosis prior to offense, perhaps an underestimate
Family background: 56% lived with both biological parents during childhood, 40% had mothers that were unemployed, 16% reported having occasional instability and disruption in their household
Family incarceration: 24% reported at least one parent had been incarcerated
Offender incarceration history: 40% had previous incarceration, almost half had a juvenile offense history
Childhood behavior patterns: Chronic problems from birth to age 12, including enuresis, isolation, lying, arson, and alcohol and drug abuse
May 21, 2008
1:44 p.m.
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My_experiences writes:
ATLborn79
You sound as if you are disappointed that Denver doesn't rank higher in your stats. Violence is violence and only breeds more violence and that happens any and EVERYWHERE!! Just because we don't have as many murders doesn't mean the its okay or not an issue. The best why to solve a problem is to address it before it becomes too big of a problem. I think its a discredit to Colorado's homicide victims' families to act like because "Denver doesn't have any ghettos" their murders provide too low of a number for us to care.
By the way my car is white...does that mean its me favorite color?
May 21, 2008
1:47 p.m.
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JINX writes:
I have a quick comment on this situation. I am white and I do have experience with gang members. My experience has been that kids turn to gangs for a couple of reasons.
The first reason, the majority, in my experience turn to them because they are afraid, afraid of their peers, afraid of their neighborhood and afraid of the future. They aren't making their way through school and have little options. They have no aspirations and haven't challenged themselves on any natural talent. How many wanna be thugs have you seen that are a whole lot tougher when they have 20 friends ready to jump the fight, or know a gun will come into play if the situation gets out of hand. How many would, when facing adversity alone, would back down, run and couldn't exit the situation fast enough. But, they see the rap videos, singing about thuggery, drugs, abuse of women and weapons. They see the basketball players with sleeve tatoo's, jewlrey and women. They see 50 cent rapping about being a thug and selling crack. They want to be that, they want to be that tough, they want to stand against their fears.
Gangs are a collective group of scared kids defending each other. The more of them there are, the tougher they become.
The second reason people join gangs, it is an opportunity for real thugs to prey on these kids. They take advantage of them, have them sell the crack, carry the weapons and hold the fort (neighborhood). They brainwash them into believing they are defending their home and line their own pockets with the money, with little recourse on them personally.
The same thing that is blamed on white society, oppression of the poor and uneducated, occurs in these gangs. The only winners are the ones on top, a pyramid scheme. The losers are the kids doing the dirty work.
These kids have little options, but it's not anyone's fault. To make it today takes work, and there will always be a group looking for the easy route. You don't want your kid in a gang, keep him working hard and let the others deal with their situations. It will always be there. Quit blaming others for the situation, it wont change it.
As for what may happen in Park Hill, it may or may not happen. But it's your neighborhood, burning it down will be your own decision.
May 21, 2008
2 p.m.
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ATLBorn79 writes:
Of course I'm not disappointed that the crime rate here isn't higher; it's just that I get fed up with all these people who constantly parrot how "dangerous" Denver and Aurora are, when compared to most cities of their size, they are MUCH safer.
I live downtown and work in the suburbs, and I'm always hearing from my co-workers how they "could never live in the city because it's too unsafe." I ask them if they've been downtown lately, and most of them say no, they haven't.
My point is that we should count our blessings that we DO live in an extremely safe city for its size and we should stop worrying so much.
After all, we could be living in Detroit...
May 21, 2008
2:07 p.m.
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mis_kia79 writes:
We also have to make our children take responsiblity for their actions. What are we teaching our children if everytime they get into trouble with the law, we allow them to shift the focus and blame someone else? Something else that bothers me, is all these parents trying to be friends with their children. What the hell is that about? We are to raise our children, not try to be their friend! I am a strong believer in Natural Consequence, youth today need to be held responsible for their actions!
May 21, 2008
2:14 p.m.
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nonayerbsns writes:
A long time ago, a friend made this suggestion: Take all the little gang-bangers, put them in the Pepsi Center armed to the teeth with every type of gun imaginable. Lock the doors. Tell them that the last man standing will be allowed out and given a free home, car and job. Would that we could!
May 21, 2008
2:20 p.m.
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steel writes:
jmac, you are so quick to point your finger at whitey. You're the biggest bigot on here. Just axe me, I'll tell you.
May 21, 2008
2:25 p.m.
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Cypher33 writes:
nonayerbsns..
That is absolutely rediculous!! What's next on your agenda; a revolutionary war at Invesco?
You and your friend are idiots!!
May 21, 2008
2:29 p.m.
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steel writes:
nonayerbsns... yeah cypher33 says it's absolutely rediculous. You know they won't fight over a job.
May 21, 2008
2:34 p.m.
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Cypher33 writes:
That's not what I meant at all. It doesn't solve anything by doing something so stupid. I guess most people on here have never made mistakes.
Don't use me as a sound board for your bigotry steel.
May 21, 2008
2:44 p.m.
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prayerfulone writes:
hasslicher_jude,
you are right about they way the communities look better. it is a sad fact that some folk don't take care of what they have nor appreciate it. unfortunately, some people destroy what does not belong to them as a statement of anger. this is not productive (ie:LA riots) and the sooner it is realized that this type of behavior is not beneficial, the better off the communities will be. this thread should let people further know that it would be a lot more productive to the communities if people would unite together to not only improve things but to change some things
May 21, 2008
2:52 p.m.
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prayerfulone writes:
wow jude,
you just don't quit!! blacks worked in the fields for many years already. not all blacks have problems working, and there are legal mexicans that don't work in the fields. that was a totally bias statement. you should not stereotype people based on race because i am sure you don't own any slaves do you?
May 21, 2008
2:58 p.m.
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steel writes:
hasslicker_of_jews, you are a dog.
May 21, 2008
3 p.m.
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Finding_Forever writes:
Prayerful and Cypher,
Why are you guys still entertaining these people? They've never had to sacrifice or understand anything before, so what makes you guys think you'll be the ones to change that? Ignore them. RMN will run another story about Hispanics or Boulder sometime today, and they will scamper away to flood the comments of those stories.
May 21, 2008
3 p.m.
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prayerfulone writes:
only if you are mistreating him. surely you are not comparing people to dogs, right?
May 21, 2008
3:08 p.m.
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prayerfulone writes:
forever,
thanks for that but my feeling is this: what we say probably won't change them but i know that by sharing the knowledge with others we will be blessed and will have done our part. keep the faith for God has the power to change ALL things if you believe :)
May 21, 2008
3:09 p.m.
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OhBrother writes:
who owns those fields jude and why aren't they and there family working them?
May 21, 2008
3:17 p.m.
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OhBrother writes:
ahhh-I did laugh at that one jude! Don't really care if you are serious, it was a stupid question that got a stupid response. keep waiting for that holy war dude-then you can get the map to all the secrect gold!
May 21, 2008
3:19 p.m.
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truth22 writes:
Being a black man who raised his three kids in Northeast Denver with their Mother/my wife, that are now about Sir Mario's age, this is what I saw as the factors that can POSSIBLY make a kid go wrong:
1) Poor parenting. Where do I start with this one?
2) A failing educational system in Denver that started going downhill decades ago.
3) Both parents having to work. The days of the housewife are long gone.
4)The lack of after school activities. The East Denver YMCA closed down years ago!
5) Peer pressure. Whoever doesn't believe that must have been home schooled!
6) Section 8 housing. We used this as a hand up and eventually bought a house. Some use it as a hand-out and some of the owners of these houses don't care what goes on in or around them.
7) More visible, successful leaders in the troubled areas. Yes, there are plenty there.
8) No God in there lives.
9) Lack of hope.
10) The whole "hip-hop" culture or subculture.
JMHO....
May 21, 2008
3:24 p.m.
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steel writes:
Truth22, it took all day for someone to give a plausable answer to that question; without any racial ovetones, I might add.
May 21, 2008
3:26 p.m.
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truth22 writes:
Thanks Steel, when you always blame others it can be self-defeating.
May 21, 2008
3:30 p.m.
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OhBrother writes:
truth22-I agree with most points besides the whole hip hop thing. I think some people can't understand it is entertainment. I agree that music can influence people and I know you wern't saying it was the sole reason, but if you live your life according to a rap song, a movie or a tv show then poor parenting would be the real factor...at least in my opinon. I also think hip hop has so many positive aspects but music is big bussiness and sex, drugs, tuff guy image sells well. There is a clear diffrence between hip hop culture and gangster rap to me
May 21, 2008
3:42 p.m.
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Devil_Dog writes:
truth22
Very well said, you added several things to my single statement of Education. I oversimplified the situation by merely suggesting an education but by education I meant a well rounded upbringing. One such as you describe. Our current social economical situation does not lend itself well to a cure for these problems. I believe it's about power not race. And the way to obtain and hold onto power is to control knowledge. Without getting into a political diatribe suffice it to say the better educated a person is the more apt he is to control a greater portion of his life. This education needs to come from more than just the public schools.
May 21, 2008
3:42 p.m.
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Devil_Dog writes:
truth22
Very well said, you added several things to my single statement of Education. I oversimplified the situation by merely suggesting an education but by education I meant a well rounded upbringing. One such as you describe. Our current social economical situation does not lend itself well to a cure for these problems. I believe it's about power not race. And the way to obtain and hold onto power is to control knowledge. Without getting into a political diatribe suffice it to say the better educated a person is the more apt he is to control a greater portion of his life. This education needs to come from more than just the public schools.
May 21, 2008
4:06 p.m.
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RBN writes:
Black Men are some of the strongest and most capable people on the planet...and they are some of the weakest and most selfish people to ever walk it. I don't think Fred is wrong, but men need to act as men, which can only happen if men raise them. Too many young black kids grow up without fathers, and I don't care who your uncle's are, there will never be a replacement for fathers. I understand that society has made it a little harder then some would like, but some things are not going to change. Black men are the problem, but how can it be fixed when black children are being raised by women. It is a joke. . As a society, the problem with the black community now is that we are depending on women to stand up for it and do what is right. Black women have it hard enough as it is without having to take responsibility for what men are not doing. Black men need to get a clue! Get jobs, work and make things better for their kids, be less selfish, understand that its about family not you that life is about. But because so many black men are trying only to help themselves, this pattern will never end. You can't blame schools, if you don’t make your kids learn why should the schools? They have no investment in your kids. You can't blame white people, I know plenty of them and they are not worried about black people other then getting beat up. You can't blame the government, you can only blame yourself.
May 21, 2008
4:29 p.m.
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truth22 writes:
RBN, are you black? Just curious, you sound like an expert on this subject and no, I am not an expert on it because I am black either. How can you make a child learn when the schools aren't doing their part? A parent may have to do more to educate the child but with hostile environments at schools, unqualified teachers, the lack of funding for books and things it makes it tough.
Women of all races have been raising kids without fathers every since the beginning of time. Ever heard of WAR?
You have the right to your opinion but I think that it is to simplistic.
Btw, your use of the commas are very unique. Feel free to use them but don't abuse them........ : )
May 21, 2008
4:35 p.m.
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breckrider writes:
devil dog, just as i said, some people can't handle facts and will resort to name calling because they have no credible statistics to refute said facts. and hitler was insane. and he has nothing to do with the african american population in the the U.S. i have several friends who are african american and even they cringe at what some of their fellow african americans do. sorry but if the black community would address their issues, i mean b.e.t. and fifty cents are role models for kids, then maybe improvement would be seen. hey here is something my father shared with me last week about something he saw in memphis.it's nine in the morning and on one corner are about 15 mexicans, legal or not doesn't matter here, and they are looking for work, anywork they can find, because they know nothing about welfare, it doesn't exist in mexico. on the other corner are about 10 abled body black men. and what are they doing? selling drugs and drinking quarts of beer.i think that pretty much sums it all up.
May 21, 2008
4:43 p.m.
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truth22 writes:
Riiiiiight, breck. Do a little research on your own and see what the illegal aliens from Mexico are doing to the Welfare system, public health care and the schools in places like California. The may not have welfare there but they quickly learn about it here.
May 21, 2008
4:54 p.m.
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Ashley writes:
Fred, I appreciate the thought, I really do. But I think what you're trying to do is shift blame and make women responsible. Would that make you feel better?...
May 21, 2008
4:57 p.m.
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breckrider writes:
well of course they do. they understand, as a people who would like to see the U.S. fall would, that the welfare system is helping bring this country down.
May 21, 2008
4:58 p.m.
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My_experiences writes:
breckrider...
It is amazing to me how you are so comfortable making these ridiculous negative statements behind your comfy computer screen. Be a man and stand behind your opinions when you are logged off and happen to see a group of black man on the corner listening to Fifty Cents. I'm sure your "African American friends" would cringe at all these blogs you are putting out there and wonder if you were a friend to them at all.
I need no story from my parents I tend to go off my own experiences and not others, and let me tell what I've seen TODAY. I see a single black working mom with sub par health care and has to put her childrens dental work on a time line according to her budget despite the immediate need because she simply can not afford it. I seen a black guy come into our practice and asked if he could wash our windows, at the same time treating a Hispanic family with a medicaid (dad works 2 jobs and mom stay home) only to end the morning with a 38 year old white man who tells me he will have to tell his parents the price and they will send us a check. I guess its okay to act like the white guy is the better person in this situation because he's not on welfare just turning the pot with his silver spoon right. Living off his elderly parents money.
Keep in mind alot of people where born with money and more are born without. We all make do with what we got and none of us are better than the other.
May 21, 2008
5:51 p.m.
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breckrider writes:
uhm, actually most well informed african americans know the statistics. they also know they are about 85% more ikely to be murdered at the hands of a fellow african american than an anglo. do you think only black women are single moms? my kid needed braces and i had to put that on a time line. i also know that i am sick of seeing my tax money wasted on people, no matter what color they are, who refuse to work. the article was about the rise in gang violence, and the root causes, and i'm not comfortable at all, my country is imploding. and how do you know the white guy wasn't just fired from his job, maybe just like the black guy.and the statement about the hispanic guy, HE WORKS TWO JOBS, GET IT EVERYBODY. HE WORKS
May 21, 2008
6:20 p.m.
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gogo writes:
Ok I've sat back for days and read all the comments everyone has posted about this shooting. And to say the least most of you have no idea what you are talking about. To give you a little background on myself. I am a member of ETG, Eight Tray Gangstas out of Aurora, Co. I am and always will be a member of this gang. Not by choice, because I am no longer active, but because it was a choice I made as a child. Now personally I didn't like Cyc Mike. He was the founder of the largest gang in Denver and my largest rival. I would've pulled the trigger on him at any moment in my younger days and would've been happy to say it was me who did it. So initially I was a little happy to hear about his death. I said he had it coming. But after reading all of these idiotic comments I see that I was being a idiot myself for being over-joyed by another man's death. I know for a fact that he wasn't the best person in the world. But I also know for a fact that he wasn't the worst either. I spent time in prison with him and seen him go through his ups and downs. Times where he wanted to change and become a better man and also the time where he did all that he knew how to do, be Cyc Mike. I go throught these same struggles everyday. Its no ones fault but our for the choices that we've made. But are they to be held against us forever? If so give me a gun now and I'll come stick you up tonight, because with that mentality out there that will keep criminals in the mind frame that they are in. If no one can forgive us then how can we get a second chance to be men and do whats right? Me myself I took the extra step and moved away so I can get ahead and become a man. Not everyone is capable of that. So please to all out there who are so critical of those you know nothing about, rethink! Gangs are a problem but hate is not the solution. Hate is the fuel we use to justify what we do. Don't want to be like us do you?
May 21, 2008
6:35 p.m.
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LoneTreeLady75 writes:
hey becker, check this out http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-welfa...
May 21, 2008
6:42 p.m.
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Finding_Forever writes:
Hey Truth,
As a proprietor of an Engish degree, I dont think there is anything wrong with Beckers' usage of the comma. Take it as a joke --you and I agree %95 of the time :o). I said all I had to say about this story yesterday, take care everyone!
May 21, 2008
8:19 p.m.
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Dejaavu writes:
I find it cute and amusing that the people that are finding joy in this consider themselves GOD fearing folks. I hope when you meet your maker he has the same empathy that you show here for you, like we all haven't made mistakes. As far as i know being the son of a preacher is that lying, stealing, dis-respecting ones parents are all part of the ten commandments and all punishable in GOD's eyes the same what DEATH. This is a man that tried to get hls life straight and thats to your mentality was fired for being a felon after the employment was "exposed" for hiring ex-felons. Society choose what we do and how we do but gets mad when they tie our hands i find that not only amusing but sickening. As a CRIP and A MARINE thats fought for this country i see no gratitude only an daily basis but is nice for toss someone thats died under the bus. I fight hard to serve and maintain and its people like this on this site with their comments of hate and glee that make me sick. I've also been to prison and am trying to turn my life around do you wish the same on me, or someone else in my shoes. Take a look at what your saying and whats in your hearts. and hope GOD doesn't and he will "look at you the same way one judgment day." Let he who has not sinned cast the first stone.
May 23, 2008
10:16 a.m.
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MisterC writes:
For those who can't understand, don't try. For those whose chose to ridicule instead of lending a shoulder to cry on or a helping hand, this is not your time to comment. For those who wish to say good riddence without never having loved a lost one in such a violent way, be prepared. The life that we know will soon change and not for the better.
No, the lifestyle that certain men choose for themselves isn't always the best traveled road, but they have the courage to walk it to attempt to find a better life for their familes. Yes, it caused trials and chaos to our communities for a while, but look at the role models that set the example for us. Look at the people that taught us how to be corrupt and decietful. If you don't get it by now, I am talking about the people that run this nation and this world for that matter. I Reiterate again, this was not the best lifestyle chosen for this young man, but if you want to point fingers for blame, point them where they matter most first. Then work your way down to the ghetto. For we are only the result of of a misguided country ran by misguided fools!
May 24, 2008
8:23 a.m.
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TheReal writes:
Yall dont know sh%% watch this summer