Girl: Cops called dad back to party before shooting
Witness accounts differ from Denver police
By Julie Poppen, Rocky Mountain News (Contact)
Originally published 09:00 p.m., May 19, 2008
Updated 06:37 a.m., May 20, 2008
Brian Lehmann / Special To The Rocky
Detective Tyrone Campbell searches a yard with a metal detector, while Detective Ron Gabel measures a possible bullet hole. Detective Dan Wiley holds a camera.
Carolina Valencia, 16, daughter of the slain Odiceo Valencia, rests her chin Monday against her mom, Altagracia Medina, outside Medina's home. Carolina criticized police actions.
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The daughter of a Montbello man who was killed in a weekend confrontation with police said Monday that her father died after officers called him on his cell phone and asked him to return to a first communion party.
"They called him back here," Carolina Valencia said. "Why? So they could kill him in front of us instead of doing their jobs?"
Odiceo Valencia was killed Saturday night when he failed to heed officers' orders to drop a knife he was wielding during the family gathering. Police said he lunged toward them, even after he was hit with a Taser and pepper balls.
Witnesses say the police commands were in English. Valencia's English was so poor that English-speaking neighbors in Montbello said they barely could understand him. He needed a translator to handle court documents from a previous case filed against him.
Denver police spokesman Sonny Jackson questioned whether a Spanish-speaking officer would have made a difference.
Jackson said he did not know whether any of the officers on the scene speak Spanish, but "we don't know at this time if that would have helped the situation."
"We do know there are certain things physically you understand, such as the use of the Taser, as well as the pepper ball," he said. "There are basic words most people understand in this country, 'stop,' 'drop it' and 'don't.'"
Jackson said the department encourages officers to learn various languages, but in the heat of the moment, there isn't time to sort out language issues.
Family called police
About 6 p.m. Saturday, a despondent Valencia made a deep gash in his arm at the home of his wife, Altagracia Medina, and his three children during a first Holy Communion gathering for his youngest daughter, Graciela, 8.
He later dropped the knife and left the gathering.
His son, Jesse, 14, called police, knowing that his father, who was diabetic, was losing blood. Four police officers went to the Valencia home in the 5500 block of North Dillon Way.
Valencia's daughter, Carolina, 16, said police called Valencia on his cell phone asking him to return.
When Valencia returned about 6:30 p.m., police and family members say, he had an even larger knife. Within minutes, his body lay slumped by a tree and police swarmed the area.
The Denver County coroner's office said Monday that the cause of death was multiple gunshot wounds to the chest and abdomen. Police say they did everything in their training to avoid a lethal confrontation, including talking to him and giving him space. Only then did they fire a Taser and use pepper balls.
"I think officers took every measure they could," Jackson said. "These officers retreated away. They were not the aggressors."
Official review under way
Family members and three other witnesses who live across the street and refused police orders to go inside said officers fired on Valencia after he had dropped the knife when stung with the Taser.
They said he did not lunge at officers.
"How could he have lunged at them when he could barely stand up straight?" Carolina said, noting that he had lost a substantial amount of blood.
Police spokeswoman and Detective Sharon Hahn said witnesses often see things differently.
"This situation could have turned out totally different," Hahn said. "(The family) is always going to question everything that we do."
The various accounts of the shooting will be reviewed by the Denver district attorney and the Office of the Independent Monitor.
Richard Rosenthal, the independent monitor who investigates and reports on all Denver officer- involved shootings, said his office has been involved from the start. "We were monitoring homicide interviews until the next morning," Rosenthal said.
He said the first phase of the investigation is being handled by Denver homicide detectives working under the district attorney. Rosenthal said the investigation should take two or three weeks.
If no charges are filed, the administrative review then begins. Rosenthal said he will have the opportunity to conduct additional investigations. His report will be forwarded to the use-of-force board, police Chief Gerry Whitman and Manager of Public Safety Al LaCabe. LaCabe is expected to issue a public report within six months, Rosenthal said.
Rosenthal acknowledged that it's rare for officers to face criminal charges in on-duty shootings.
The only case he could recall was that of former Denver police officer Joseph Bini, who was charged in 2000 with felony perjury for writing a faulty no-knock warrant that led to the Sept. 29, 1999, police raid and killing of 45-year-old Ismael Mena.
Bini pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor, served a three-month suspension, and got his police job back.
From celebration to tragedy
The joy of a family gathering for a child's first communion turned to horror in a few hours Saturday:
* 1 p.m.: Family members, including Odiceo Valencia, the child's father, attend first communion Mass at Montbello Catholic Parish Church of the Ascension. Valencia is separated from his wife and barred by a restraining order from going to the family home for a party.
* 5 p.m.: Carolina Valencia, 16, tells her distraught father that he can come join the gathering at the family's Montbello home, despite the order.
* 6 p.m.: Jesse Valencia, 14, calls 911 to ask police to help find his father, who has slashed his arm with a knife at the family's home then left in a vehicle.
* 6:28 p.m.: Police fire weapons at Odiceo Valencia, who has returned to the home. Police say he refused to drop a large knife.
Less-lethal weapons
The Denver Police Department has three main weapons in their less-lethal arsenal.
* Advanced Taser M-26 ERD (Electronic Restraint Device) The laser-sighted 26-watt device shoots two probes into a person up to 21 feet away and uses new technology to mimic the body's neurological signals, causing a person's skeletal muscles to contract and lock up.
* Pepper ball system: An air-powered device and launches plastic spheres filled with powdered or liquid solution of oleoresin capsicum. They burst on impact and release the pepper solution.
* Less lethal shotgun: The DPD also deploys an 18-gauge shotgun firing a beanbag projectile, designed to subdue suspects by delivering a heavy blow.
* Training: The department manual mandates that officers must attend and pass a training course, an annual in-service course and periodic qualification in less-lethal procedures and weapons.
May 20, 2008
3:04 a.m.
politwriter writes:
(This comment was removed by the site staff.)
May 20, 2008
3:48 a.m.
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livinginD writes:
In any town or country in this world, when an officer of the law points a weapon at you it's a good idea to comply, even if you think you are some way in the right.
Oh, and don't get drunk and violate a restraining order while you're at it.
May 20, 2008
4:56 a.m.
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clyde writes:
Although I have to agree that the DPD may be just a tad quick on the trigger, how could this guy have ignored a restraining order, tasers and pepper balls? He should have been able to comply even if he spoke Martian.
May 20, 2008
5:15 a.m.
happymike44 writes:
(This comment was removed by the site staff.)
May 20, 2008
5:37 a.m.
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Creative_N_Denver writes:
This is the reason why you should learn the language of the country you are visiting or living in. I live here in an area where it is mostly Hispanic, so many haven't bothered to learn the language. We waste so much money teaching English to the children, by the way they learn English for free, but we have to pay to learn Spanish-hummm what's wrong with that? Our stores are selling toys in all spanish and numerous other products as well- hummm whats wrong with that? Because they are fastly becoming the minority, good people can't get jobs or beginning to lose the jobs they have because our wonderful government and the greed of American business is requiring you to know Spanish. Wake up people, this is not Disneyland and one requirement should be to speak English! There are many different cultures here in the United States.
If you have a gun pointed at you, put your hands up and listen to the police officer! If there was that many witnesses and THEY ALL spoke English on the news, why didn't they translate? Its because they KNEW he understood English and refused to LISTEN! This is the way of the Mexican people living here, they act like they don't understand, so they can make lots of money by suing the government. Not all Mexicans are this way, most are hard working people, it is the few that don't follow laws, steal, kill and cheat that we hear about. Because our government allows anyone to sue another, it is getting out of hand and in a huge way. If a family member breaks the law and is hurt or killed in the process of the act, the family or injured should not be able to sue. Maybe then the people will become responsible for their own actions and stop becoming everyone elses problem. The poor me and whinning attitude is getting really old.
May 20, 2008
5:47 a.m.
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Earl writes:
everyone who saw it spoke English except the one who got shot. Now that shows what a close group of folks these people really are. he acts like he is the only one who doesnt speak English and the rest stood by and let him get shot as they didnt speak spanish?
hold on to your wallets residents of Denver you are about to be forced to pay for another illegal family for life.
May 20, 2008
5:50 a.m.
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Oh_Wise_One writes:
How long was he here in the US of A? Was he a legal immigrant? This is a sad but it is his fault.
May 20, 2008
6:08 a.m.
FloydHill writes:
(This comment was removed by the site staff.)
May 20, 2008
6:35 a.m.
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maukaman writes:
"police called Valencia on his cell phone and asked him to return". And he returned. But he couldn't understand an order to stop, drop the knife???
May 20, 2008
6:43 a.m.
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Adeline writes:
So much for community policing. One important lesson here is, when you're having an emergency, the last people you should call is the police.
May 20, 2008
6:44 a.m.
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Michael writes:
illiterate peasant perhaps???
May 20, 2008
6:44 a.m.
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Houstongolfnut writes:
Have we reached the tipping point yet in our love for illegals?
May 20, 2008
6:46 a.m.
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Shaupeen writes:
Creative wrote:
"Maybe then the people will become responsible for their own actions and stop becoming everyone elses problem. The poor me and whinning attitude is getting really old."
I couldn't agree more!
May 20, 2008
6:50 a.m.
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shoulder2shoulder writes:
maukaman- That is a great point!!!!!!!
May 20, 2008
6:55 a.m.
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HollyGoLightly writes:
Maukaman and Earl make a good point. If the police called him on his cell to ask him to return and he did, someone either spoke Spanish or he understood English. As Earl pointed out, everyone there understood enough English to know what the officers were saying yet no one yelled to him in Spanish to drop the knife? I feel bad for his children that saw this go down but the reports we are hearing point to the fault of Mr. Valencia.
May 20, 2008
6:57 a.m.
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Firefox writes:
When police have their weapons drawn on you it is called the universal language of put your hands in the air and submit. This guy had problems and now they are solved!!!
May 20, 2008
6:58 a.m.
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tarraday writes:
I learned a new spanish word today! "NO"
May 20, 2008
7:08 a.m.
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Alive writes:
Wonder what kind of cars they will buy with the settlement? I hope they at least consider buying a Prius or three. As for big screen TVs, may I suggest something in the 50 to 60 inch size. And of course, being good citizens they will no doubt put some of the money back into the community. The HISPANIC community that is. All others can just pound sand to be sure.
May 20, 2008
7:08 a.m.
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denver_80247 writes:
You move to the United States, learn to speak English!!!
May 20, 2008
7:13 a.m.
Steve writes:
(This comment was removed by the site staff.)
May 20, 2008
7:20 a.m.
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MarineGrunt writes:
Welcome Aboard, Steve!
You will fit in just fine. Ignorant like most...
May 20, 2008
7:28 a.m.
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Classof80 writes:
I believe colorado is an english only state. Learn to speak the langauge or get out. I don't care if you don't understand english or not why would you bring a knife to a gun fight ??? And anyone in their right mind would see the odds are stacked against them.
May 20, 2008
7:35 a.m.
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Denverboy1 writes:
I think you ALL are so right........Any person with a knife...ANY person YOUR mother..dad..brother..sister..brother... grandpa or grandma ...Son or Daughter...should be treated with this kind HELP from our Police.... After all we are all equal under the law.. White...BLack...Brown....
No matter where we are from right !!!
My God the compassion of the above post are so human and touching....they kinda remind me of The S.S. under Hitler....Wow....now there was a touching Police State..... One in which any person of race or color could feel they are safe...They even provided for some there own private trains for transportation...and plush resort rooms complete with steam saunas......! Ah to bask in the word of America's humanity ......Touching and so hart felt.....I can see there are deep thinkers that really understand that Document Called The Constitution......Our founding Fathers would be proud..Our FREEDDOM is secure ........at long last..........
May 20, 2008
7:36 a.m.
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NWDengal writes:
funny how taking a human life now turns into illegal/Mexican/immigrant bashing..... Get a life, all of you better than the other, English ONLY racists...
May 20, 2008
7:36 a.m.
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tiero writes:
The police did the right thing. Now, deport the kids
May 20, 2008
7:37 a.m.
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T1anda writes:
Welcome to the United States of Mexico. Sneak through our borders, commit crimes and retire for life. The new word for illegals isn't JOBS it's LAWSUITS!!
May 20, 2008
7:42 a.m.
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riosmom6 writes:
Hmmmm....The Police called him on his cellphone and he understood enough English at that time to come back again in violation of a restraining order, but he didn't understand "drop the weapon"? Selective habla Englais?
May 20, 2008
7:50 a.m.
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SLAP writes:
Was this guy oblivious to body language? He was shot with pepper balls, tazers....etc. You should probably put the knife down, pal. He died because he was a jackass...you do not need to understand english to comprehend the officers' physical actions.
May 20, 2008
7:50 a.m.
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Oh_Wise_One writes:
NWDengal- what are you illiterate? This article is about how the guy didn't or wouldn't understand English because he speaks Spanish. The author was trying to illicit sympathy for the aggressor aka the dead guy with her spin but it doesn't work except on bleeding hearts like you.
May 20, 2008
7:58 a.m.
DahmersCookbook writes:
(This comment was removed by the site staff.)
May 20, 2008
8:05 a.m.
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MattGuyver_007 writes:
NWDengal, How does asking or even requiring a citizen of the USA to learn basic English make someone a racist? You are crying wolf.
A Nation is defined by it's Borders, Language and Culture.
Based on what we know at this time, Valencia was despondent, suicidal, wielding another, even larger knife when he made his final charge toward police. He was shot and so would I have been.
May 20, 2008
8:09 a.m.
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spencerr writes:
Too bad someone died, but maybe that will give an incentive to learn and speak the language of the country where they live.
May 20, 2008
8:13 a.m.
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Shaupeen writes:
The anchor baby is second only to the lawsuit baby. Enjoy my money, dipsh!ts.
May 20, 2008
8:14 a.m.
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Miss_Kitty_Kat_Girl writes:
"His son, Jesse, 14, called police, knowing that his father, who was diabetic, was losing blood. Four police officers went to the Valencia home in the 5500 block of North Dillon Way."
Why did the son call the police? He needed medical care. The police are not medical care. The police protect and serve. Though a tradgedy, this family brought this upon themselves and I agree this man should've learned english and he and his family should've understood the law of a restraining order through his court interpreter and the children who speak english.
May 20, 2008
8:22 a.m.
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PlainTruth writes:
This is for each of the 'english only' racist ignorant people who have posted above.
Please take a minute, go home and look at your family tree, and ask yourself whether you even know the answer to this question: When your ancestors first immigrated here, and they did unless you are native american or black, did your immigrant ancestors, that first generation of immigrant from which you descend, did that first generation immigratn family member of yours, whether they were from russia, norway, italy, france, or germany, did your immigrant relative really learn to speak fluent english the way you expect the first generation mexican immigrant to learn english. I doubt it.
So please, before you spout off your ignorant racist remarks about how every mexican should be fluent in english already, take a look at your own personal immigrant past and accept that it is rare for first generation immigrants to become fluent in their host nation's language.
May 20, 2008
8:29 a.m.
SLAP writes:
(This comment was removed by the site staff.)
May 20, 2008
8:32 a.m.
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AC writes:
Folks: The point about him getting a call from police on his cell phone to come back *doesn't* show that he either could understand English or not; it shows that the family is lying one place or another. If he didn't understand English, and there were no Spanish-speaking officers present, then what the daughter is claiming is not true that he was called by police and told to come back. If he *was* called and told to come back -- in English -- then it is not true when the family says he didn't understand enough English.
May 20, 2008
8:32 a.m.
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dillard writes:
While I agree that one should learn the English language if you plan to live in the U.S., the word Colorado is Spanish. Santa Fe, Tejon, Monte Vista, San Juan, and a host of other names of towns, streets, rivers, etc in Colorado are also Spanish.
May 20, 2008
8:32 a.m.
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Dick_Tater writes:
So what are the police supposed to do? Allow a dangerous suicidal man to walk away and not investigate? If they did and then the man killed himself, we would see a different story about how they cops were responsible for his death...either way a lawsuit will follow. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
May 20, 2008
8:34 a.m.
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denver_80247 writes:
PlainTruth,
To say that people should speak english when they move to the United States is not racist. My grandparents came over here from Mexico and learned english in short order, to the point where my mother does not speak spanish. My wife moved here from Mexico about 7 years ago, knew and learned english and now works for IBM. I am not asking someone who crosses the line to the United States to be able to debate on the Harvard debate team but should have a basic understanding of the English language.
May 20, 2008
8:39 a.m.
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superbad writes:
"a host of other names of towns, streets, rivers, etc in Colorado are also Spanish."
That's because most of Colorado was Mexican territory until the 1850s.
May 20, 2008
8:45 a.m.
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BMat writes:
Do you think that charging at gun-toting police officers while brandishing a knife is acceptable in Mexico?
I think staring down the barrel of a policeman's .38 is a universal language. "Stick 'em up and don't move a muscle."
I would guess that pepper balls and a taser feel about the same in Guanajuato or Zacatecas as they do in Colorado.
This is a tragic loss but it has nothing to do w/race or language.
May 20, 2008
8:46 a.m.
lencho_elias writes:
(This comment was removed by the site staff.)
May 20, 2008
8:51 a.m.
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Bumpskier writes:
So; What's your point, Dillard?
May 20, 2008
8:53 a.m.
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American100 writes:
Lencho if Europeans hadn't come here to settle America, we'd be the toilet Mexico is.
I guess it would have paid for this guy to learn a little english.
1 down 20 million to go.
May 20, 2008
8:53 a.m.
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blacksho89 writes:
If I were in Mexicao, and a man with a gun pointed at me said "usted puso el cuchillo abajo!" I think I could figure out to drop the knife.
Unless I was trying to commit suicide by cop, that is.
May 20, 2008
8:53 a.m.
Suggest removal
MattGuyver_007 writes:
Someone hit the "Suggest Removal" button on Lencho_elias! That is true racism and absolute ignorance.
I am dumber having read that trash. Leave now.
May 20, 2008
8:54 a.m.
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Shaggy writes:
I agree with maukaman,
If this guy didn't understand English, how did he understood when they told him to come back?
I'm not buying that someone can actually be so stupid with out being mentally ill not to understand to drop down when the Cops shoot a taser and pepper bombs at you and all of them pointing guns at you.
My guess is he is here illegally because if he was Legal we would have heard from the family and both papers by now.
If he is here illegally the papers will hide it for as long as possible.
Plus all things add up, no English, forged documents, no Drivers License, No I.D....ect..
If Ritters office would have done their job this incident would not have happened.
Another thing I would like to know is what the hell goes on at these Religious events?
It was at one of these events that Donny Young(Denver Cop)was murdered by an illegal that worked for Hickenlooper and then fled to Mexico.
Here is this guys arrest record while Ritter kept letting him go.
He was under a restraining order for punching his wife and part of that deal was he was to have NO WEAPONS AND NO DRINKING...ironic isn't it?
http://www.khow.com/cc-common/mlib/63...
May 20, 2008
8:55 a.m.
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Steph writes:
Politwriter. You'd better think again before you open your mouth and paint all Liberals the same; it's a shortcut to thinking. I'm about as Liberal as one can get AND I'm hispanic (legally) but I think this guy got just what he deserved. The family has blood on their hands as they ignored the Restraining Order.
Anyway, next time you want to bitch about Liberals, why don't you point the actual liberal person that you are talking about. We are not all the same and you're a tool.
May 20, 2008
8:55 a.m.
Suggest removal
HSTOWEL writes:
You've got to love how morons like DenverBoy use this opportunity to smear the police when he wasn't there and is citing information from biased witnesses. Maybe DenverBoy and some of the rest of his crew on this site should be on call to respond to the next critical incident and we can see how he performs. It appears that he and others are some type of experts in the use of force. If the police deployed less lethal weapons such as a taser and pepperball they were attempting to avoid the use of firearms. This guy made the choice to confront the police with a knife and this will often be the result should that be your choice.
May 20, 2008
8:56 a.m.
Suggest removal
bhaney01 writes:
Steve, do you enjoy acting like an uninformed idiot? As the daughter explained after the shooting, her father was carrying the knife until he was hit by the first shot, and it was then that he dropped the weapon.
Lets get some very important facts straight about this case: Mr. Valencia has a criminal record as long as your arm (go to khow.com to read it, the papers won't print it), he was in violation of a court order that prohibited him from being at the home of his family, drinking, carrying a weapon (he violated all three...hat trick!). He was tasered, pepper-bagged, but continued to move towards the police in a threatening manner. His actions are what prompted the reaction by police. He had lived here for 24+ years, yet spoke no english (at least not until he's handcuffed, as is usually the case). One report said he worked in construction, another said he was a security guard (wouldn't his presence make you feel safer?). Regardless of how you choose to spin this, Mr. Valencia is responsible for what happened to him. He broke the law, ignored the commands of police, and in so doing, suffered the consequences. The only people that will miss him is the rest of his illegal/undocumented family. And as these things normally work out, once the case is settled, the money they make should help in erasing the bad memories of seeing their father/husband gunned down. I can hear the ambulance chasing lawyers lining up already. Hey Colorado, how do you like living in a sanctuary state?
Plaintruth, do yourself a favor and get spell/grammar check. Yours is deplorable.
Dillard, it helps if you have a point when attempting to make one, moron.
May 20, 2008
9 a.m.
Suggest removal
mojambo writes:
One thing of note - a restraining order goes both ways. Odis and his wife were both in violation of the RO.
May 20, 2008
9:04 a.m.
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tiero writes:
Hey Plaintruth
nothing spoken is racist, a poor defense. Anyhow, there would be hardly any news in the paper if it wasn't the crimes of illegals & thats the plain truth.
May 20, 2008
9:11 a.m.
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American100 writes:
Hispanic reputation in general and especially Mexicans are getting beat up because of illegals.
They are a smear on their own society and now ours.
Report & Deport call ICE 1-866-347-2423.
May 20, 2008
9:12 a.m.
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rockythunder writes:
I'm curious if he was losing that much blood, how did he drive back there without passing out? He's bleeding for half an hour between the time he left and the time he came back, if he was a diabetic and the cut was more than a paper cut my guess is he wouldn't even have made it back without passing out.
May 20, 2008
9:13 a.m.
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Big_D writes:
I'm with BMat. Having a gun pointed at you by a person in uniform transcends the language barrier. This is suicide by cop pure and simple. They should deport the family if they are here illegally too. Maybe they should think about their behavior if they don't want the attention.
May 20, 2008
9:15 a.m.
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Monica030 writes:
Lets not be sneaky about having morals like Adolf Hitler. "Our race, our country is superior, and we must rid ourselves of the contaminating people".
Lets stop all this talk about 'deportation'--as though deportation would be enough for the many people on here who so clearly enjoy death, as long as it comes to someone with a Mexican-sounding last name.
When does construction on the start on the camps? That is the next step, isn't it?
May 20, 2008
9:15 a.m.
Suggest removal
Barron writes:
This article doesn't make sense. How did the police communicate to him on his cell phone to come back if they didn't speak the same language? You mean, he understood "come back to the house" but he didn't understand "drop the weapon - stop"?
May 20, 2008
9:24 a.m.
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rockythunder writes:
Another thing I can't figure out, if he comes back to the house and sees all the cop cars there, he can't figure out that the cops are there for him? Wouldn't you just turn around and go the other way? But instead he gets out of the car, grabs his knife and then decides to bull rush them. I've been on enough ride alongs to know that if you don't speak the language the first comment out of someone's mouth is "No speaky English". You would have figured he would of at least said this to buy some time for whatever he was planning.
May 20, 2008
9:27 a.m.
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American100 writes:
DO NOT STOP speaking of deporting. They are here illegally, they have NO RIGHTS and for those who so so passionate about the Mexi's, GO TO MEXICO and help them there.
They've come here, glimpsed civilization, been educated, now they need to go home and make MEXICO a place worth living.
So Monica - pack up and go help those you love so dearly.
May 20, 2008
9:28 a.m.
Suggest removal
American100 writes:
ICE 1-866-347-2423
May 20, 2008
9:28 a.m.
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redwhiteandBLUE writes:
THIS IS AN "ENGLISH SPEAKING "COUNTRY"~~~
WE DON'T NEED TO CHANGE THE WHOLE POLICE FORCE INTO MEXICAN TO ACCOMEDATE THEM! LEARN THE LANGUAGE!
May 20, 2008
9:31 a.m.
Suggest removal
dillard writes:
Bumpskier: So; What's your point, Dillard?
If Colorado is an English only state perhaps we need to consider renaming the state, and many of it's towns,streets,rivers, mountain ranges, etc. I also pointed out that I agree a person should learn the English language if you wish to live in the U.S. Also,if you plan to live in Italy you should learn Italian. Aparently that's not good enough to some.
There is so much hatred in this world I do not wish to add to it.
How long will it be before we have another civil war? With the amount of guns and other weapons we now have another civil war would make our first look like a Sunday picnic.
I can already hear the tapestry of profanity and insults that are filling cyber space. Moron, idiot, stupid, ignorant, yada, yada.
I've had anger problems in my life and have finally found the only person harmed by it is me. Peace!
May 20, 2008
9:32 a.m.
Suggest removal
devildog writes:
I have a great idea. For those of you who think you can do better or if you have a terrible problem with how police handled the situation, please do them a favor, don't call the police. Handle it yourselves the next time a drunk non English speaking individual cuts himself at a First Communion. Idiots.
May 20, 2008
9:36 a.m.
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rmnreader writes:
If you want the benefit of living in American society then learn to speak the language! It is completely his fault for getting killed if they are going to blame his lack of understanding english on his death. I agree with above posters that we as Americans speaking english in no way should need to learn a FOREIGN language to communicate with immigrants coming into our country - legal or illegal.
May 20, 2008
9:38 a.m.
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Miss_Kitty_Kat_Girl writes:
lencho elias,
you forget that this was Araphoe, Cheyenne, Lakota, Comanche, Apache, Ute, Navajo, all the Pueblos country FIRST. Mexico was conquered by the Spanish, which is why most from Mexico now speak it and have forgotten everything "indigenous" to them.
Languages from the Southwest for still alive and not everything will be Spanish.
May 20, 2008
9:41 a.m.
Suggest removal
RightOn writes:
WHAT????
A drunk Mexican, who doesn't speak english, who's been in trouble with the law several times before...and now he's gone.
Hold on a minute while I get a tissue.
So how does this story go? It seems like every day life is an event worth drinking for and fighting for.
"Hey, it's friday, let's go get drunk. Don't forget the knife Hon."
"Hey, it's the kid's communion, let's get drunk. Don't forget the gun, Hon."
"Hey, it's lunch time, let's get drunk. Don't forget the bullets dear."
May 20, 2008
9:44 a.m.
Suggest removal
hoodedbeagle writes:
There is no incentive for these people to learn the language. The corporations and our government are caterting to them, press 1 for English, 2 for Spanish. Regardless, if he couldn't understand "put the knife down" how did he get "please come back". Last time I checked criminals usually don't respond to phone calls from the police department to return to the scene. The RMN and DP are so pro-illegal it isn't even funny.
I don't care if people want to come to this country but if you want to really be a part of it do it the right way. I know, it takes so long and the system is broken, but I suspect most of the folks don't care because they have no intention of being a true American.
If Mexico wants the land back then let's handle this the way all land disputes are handled around the world. Fight for it!
May 20, 2008
9:45 a.m.
Suggest removal
mamma354 writes:
Get ready for everyone at that party and everyone in the neighborhood to start lying in favor of the family. They all know there is a quick way to the Americano dream. Suing the police. Minority groups have an organized method to dealing with the police. Check it out.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_Sni...'
BTW Good shoot officers.
May 20, 2008
9:59 a.m.
Suggest removal
homey_da_clizzown writes:
Why would the cops tell a drunk guy to get in his card and DRIVE back to a party? Seems odd....
May 20, 2008
10:22 a.m.
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mmunez writes:
These are terrible responses to the loss of a human life. Regardless of the color of his skin, his inability to speak English, or his social status, Odiceo was a human being and his life was worth something as a father, husband, son, brother, etc. Ask yourselves-if you were born in a poor country would you not try with all your might to seek a better life for your family? We do not get to choose where we are born, so let’s not sit up on our pedestals and pat ourselves on the back for being fortunate enough to be born in America. This is a very disheartening situation and your racial comments are of no help to the police officers involved or the family and friends of Odiceo.
May 20, 2008
10:25 a.m.
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davies writes:
Poor cops. They get a call that says: "Please help, find my father because he is distraught, slashed his forearm and is in danger because he's diabetic. The cops call him and he shows up drunk and waving a knife; a real winner of a situation.
Now the family's lawsuit will say: "The cops called him speaking in fluent Spanish and lured him back, telling him there was a big fiesta going on. Then when he got there they all yelled Shakespearean passages at him and shot him with pepperballs, tasers and bullets. Then the cops laughed and said "What good is a fiesta without a pinata?", and "C'mon, let's go kill some babies"...
May 20, 2008
10:27 a.m.
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Noia writes:
Denverboy1 thanks for the giggle this morning.
Nothing like listening to someone rant and rave about a police state when it's obvious they don't have a clue what one is.
The Nazi reference is also classic and good for a laugh. :)
May 20, 2008
10:32 a.m.
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riosmom6 writes:
This is in response to PlainTruth's comment regarding fluency in English among first generation Americans. My father and his parents immigrated legally from Yugoslavia. His parents insisted he learn the English language and in turn teach them. Along the way, he earned several college degrees including a PhD, putting himself through the whole way. My ex-husband is a legal German immigrant. He spoke only three words of English when he came to the United States. He know holds FOUR college degrees!! Both of these men chose to assimilate into our culture, realizing it was in the best interest of themselves and their families. It all boils down to how hard one wants to work to make a success of himself or herself. I have no sympathy for people who won't even try, yet learn perfectly well how to hold their hands out for the free bees we keep continuing to dole out.
May 20, 2008
10:35 a.m.
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Really writes:
This coward knew exactly what was going on and he absoluetly understood the police commands. He was so intent on dying but was afraid to do it himself so he forced the police to do it for him. Now the family that isolated theselves from him are trying to put him in for a father of the year award so they can attempt a BS lawsuit. Kudos to the officers, you gave this loser more than enough opportunities to surrender and get assistance.
By the way, this probably wouldn't have happened in Mexico. (Something for the family to consider!)
May 20, 2008
10:37 a.m.
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RickyLee writes:
Monica
.....Arbight Macht Frei...
May 20, 2008
10:41 a.m.
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tiero writes:
odicio was a human being who lead a life of crime since he came here illegally munez. Maybe he should of changed his illegal ways.
May 20, 2008
10:41 a.m.
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joedog writes:
I'm curious as to what language his voice mail answering messgage is in.
Lack of English is no excuse,I believe having a gun pointed at you speaks loud and clear! And he had lost too much blood to lunge with his knife, but not too much to drive? The relatives sure are making a lot of excuses for this guy. I wonder if they want the cash in US dollars or in pesos?
May 20, 2008
10:43 a.m.
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mrNiceGuy writes:
28 minutes.
In 28 minutes the call to 911 was made, police arrive, they call the man back to the house, he comes back with a knife, police do "everything they can" including talking to him, giving him space, pepper ball him & tase him then they kill him.
28 minutes. It's like drive-thru justice.
May 20, 2008
10:47 a.m.
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PajamaPulitzer writes:
Like it or not Douglas Bruce is vindicated. The man died because of his illiterate peasantry.
May 20, 2008
10:48 a.m.
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mikeyg writes:
Anyone who has ever had an encounter with Denver police know most of them are quick-tempered bullies whose use of force, including deadly force is all too common.
They are trained to deal with what they call "aggressive beligerents" with excessive force. It is a police technique used to get absolute control of a situation very quickly. The problem is that they define "aggressive beligerents" too broadly, and in doing so they take license to abuse citizens who are emotional, but no threat to anyone. From this kind of training and license they're given they get a God complex pretty darn quickly. And if they go too far they'll cover for each other and lie their butts off. Denver has one of the highest officer involved shooting rankings in the country where the victim's threat level was questionable.
I know some good DPD officers, but the department as a whole has a culture that produces results like this one too, too often.
May 20, 2008
10:48 a.m.
Suggest removal
joedog writes:
"Family members and three other witnesses who live across the street and refused police orders to go inside said officers fired on Valencia after he had dropped the knife when stung with the Taser." Refused police orders. Yeah, these are going to be real reliable witnesses. Arrest them, let 'em sit in the can and think about how it really went down.
May 20, 2008
10:57 a.m.
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johnson writes:
I bet when you get a company's voice mail in Mexico it doesn't say "Press 2 for English".
May 20, 2008
11:06 a.m.
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mmunez writes:
Maybe we should all do a self-assessment and try to change some of our ways for the betterment of society. He is dead; he has already been judged by God so these pathetic judgments’ and views are a useless waste of time. Delve yourselves into something that will enrich the community we live in, also invest your time into a worthwhile cause and let the poor man rest in peace.
May 20, 2008
11:14 a.m.
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Tezcumpapa writes:
Hmmmm. That's the problem with Americans, we believe we can speak only one language. My Swiss friends speak three...its normal. Also, is our culture so weak that it cannot withstand a little cultural tweaking? Come one people, American English is not British English; we enjoy a lingual and cultural resiliancy to be envied. And, you have to recall that most of the folks who came here, came to become Americans...and they, too - a great many times, were met with derision, hate and contempt. Read your history books. It takes patience, understanding and the willingness to be friendly toward the new and different. At the same time, the "different" must learn to reach out and be brave enough to change. We will never be the same as a people, but we will be a nation.
May 20, 2008
11:14 a.m.
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SaddleTramp writes:
I just don't get it. Why are we increasingly being required to learn a foreign language in our own country, just to accomondate illegal aliens? If I go to any other country in the world and put my kids in school, do you think there will be an English speaking teacher just for them, even if they're legal? Doubtful. English is being taught all over the world and is becoming a second language to many. I find it impossible to believe this guy was in the States for 26 years and couldn't speak English. Most service personel I know who have been stationed overseas have learned at least the basics of the country they were in.
May 20, 2008
11:15 a.m.
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PonchoVia writes:
Sounds like suicide by cop.
May 20, 2008
11:15 a.m.
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NWDengal writes:
I hear alot of anger out there. Please take a deep breath and re-evaluate yourselves....
Imagine a world without anger,hate,hostility and bitterness. Love one another and LIVE IT!!!
Peace and Press 1 for Love!
May 20, 2008
11:21 a.m.
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johnson writes:
tezcumpapa- "Hmmmm. That's the problem with Americans, we believe we can speak only one language."
No, that's the problem with the Mexicans who come to an English speaking country and expect us to learn their language. We Americans believe we need to speak the language of the country we live in.
May 20, 2008
11:34 a.m.
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redwhiteandBLUE writes:
Go to OSP COMMUNICATIONS you have to PRESS # 1 for Spanish and #2
for ENGLISH. 1-866-460-0837
May 20, 2008
11:36 a.m.
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butch_m writes:
Why was he not deported after his prior arrests?
It's funny how his family has dollar signs in there eyes now.
May 20, 2008
11:42 a.m.
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scottmo writes:
Its a shame this guys kids had to see their dad killed in front of them. Something he should have considered before going after the cops. Its always someone elses fault. I dont think he deserved to die, but it was his own fault. You want your kids to live in a good life here in America? How about learning to speak english? The earlier writer hit it on the head. He understood english well enough to come back to the scene when asked in english.
Years ago I was a drunken idiot and went after a cop. I didn't deserve to get my brains beat out with batons, but it was MY fault for going after them. Thank God I didnt have a weapon or I might be dead now. I take responsibility for my actions and spent a couple days in the pokie to think about it. It never happened again. Of course I'm just a stupid english speaking gringo.
Once again the citizens of Denver will support an illegal family for life because someone was too lazy to learn the language and follow the laws of the United States of America!
May 20, 2008
11:54 a.m.
Suggest removal
missmilehi writes:
It's a sad ending on so many levels, but mostly because as the story is presented, the police are getting a bum rap for doing their job (family calls for help, they come to help, then THEY are deemed the bad guys?!), and good citizens who happen to have Mexican/Spanish surnames are left looking bad.
Do normal people - whether they're white, brown, green, gay, straight, happy, sad - weild weapons at their family, neighbors, and police? NO. And don't get all Clinton on me and start debating the meaning of "normal" - you know what I mean.
This story is only made sadder because instead of focusing on this obviously disturbed man and what HE did to his family (why the restraining order? Why the knife? Why not listen to police [I don't believe that garbage that he didn't know enough English]?), we are all focusing on his *race* instead of the fact that he was in *clear violation of the law*.
I'm a person with a Spanish surname, and stories like this make me SICK to my stomach. The ignorance and stupidity of a select few Mexican, Hispanic, Latino, (or whatever the PC term is nowadays) groups of people - legal or not - make the rest of us look bad. I hate when people use race (or any other "minority" status) as an excuse for stupidity - it's sad that someone had to die, but it was his own stupidity (and his family's) that got him there. "Oh pobrecito!" yeah right.
Earlier posters are right. In Mexico, that guy wouldn't even have had the chance to be peppered. His head would have been on a platter at 6:02pm.
May 20, 2008
12:01 p.m.
Suggest removal
sheepherder writes:
"They called him back here," Carolina Valencia said. "Why? So they could kill him in front of us instead of doing their jobs?"
How about so they could check his self inflicted cut and investigate the matter where it took place?
"Witnesses say the police commands were in English."
Uh, thats the language we speak in this country!
No pity for this guy or his family.
May 20, 2008
12:13 p.m.
Suggest removal
missmilehi writes:
One more question.
Who taught his children (and wife, I saw her on 9 News) English? How were they able to so eloquently call police and be interviewed for this story?
Oh wait, I know! OUR school system taught them! Yay for us.
How sad that everyone in his family knew English except him. They know enough English to tell their "Poor Me" story to the newspapers, but not enough to obey police orders.
Ugh.
May 20, 2008
12:27 p.m.
Suggest removal
MGD writes:
It was not a language barrier that caused him to die. He got a call on his phone, came back, got a knife (not sure if he brought that with him) and then approached the police.
Okay, if the cops call me and ask me to come to where they are, I'm not going armed unless I plan on getting into a gun fight armed with a knife.
Even if he dropped the knife right before they shot, he still came to them after getting a phone call and approached them with a knife. Sadly suicidal.
May 20, 2008
12:42 p.m.
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PlainTruth writes:
Bropous,
So you are going to deny that you are a decendent of immigrants?
May 20, 2008
12:47 p.m.
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RightOn writes:
It's not about immigration. It's about ILLEGAL immigration and the burden it has caused AMERICANS.
May 20, 2008
12:48 p.m.
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Justin_Credible writes:
Hispanic is NOT a race; it is an ethnicity. Therefore, nothing regarding this discussion, by definition, can be racist.
The cry of "Racism" and "Racist" is the last cry of the intellectually bankrupt.
May 20, 2008
12:49 p.m.
Suggest removal
scottmo writes:
Unless you are a Native American, you are a descendant of an immigrant. But most of us, especially those from European descent, are descendants of LEGAL IMMIGRANTS. Our ancestors didn't have the option of simply sneaking in across the border for a freebie. Ours had a thousand mile swim, which is a long way to go. Oh, and they learned to speak the language. There was no affirmative action back then to make it easy.
May 20, 2008
12:55 p.m.
Suggest removal
Justin_Credible writes:
"Native Americans" aren't native or indigenous to the Americas. They came from Asia - UNDISPUTED FACT as DNA evidence clearly links them to Asians.
So, please, stop with the "Native American" BS... They just happened to be the transplanted group living here when the Europeans arrived.
May 20, 2008
12:58 p.m.
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RBN writes:
He was also a diabetic who was losing blood, which was the reason for the call in the first place. Now, I am not a doctor but I know that a diabetic who may be suffering from low blood sugar and a person who is losing blood can act irrationally. IT’S COMMON SENSE. You would have to be damn near retarded to not know something like that. Which brings me to my second point, the problem is that there is little to no education requirements for cops. Anyone with an Associate’s degree (Junior College) can be a cop. You have closed minded high school flunky’s making choices with guns!!! I am a firm believer that cops need to have higher education requirements, however, people who go to college and do well generally don’t want to walk the beat. I don’t blame them, after I got out of college the last thing I wanted to be was a doughnut jockey, making up for all the ass kicking’s I received as a kid. If someone else had come to help, a family friend, a neighbor and he would have shot the man, he would have been called a murderer. I don’t see why these uneducated cops get a free pass to kill. After reading the posts on here, I am quite certain that most of you are undereducated and have small closed minds. Our society is crumbling because of morons like you. Cops keep shooting people; you are really endearing yourself to the public.
May 20, 2008
12:58 p.m.
Suggest removal
RBN writes:
He was also a diabetic who was losing blood, which was the reason for the call in the first place. Now, I am not a doctor but I know that a diabetic who may be suffering from low blood sugar and a person who is losing blood can act irrationally. IT’S COMMON SENSE. You would have to be damn near retarded to not know something like that. Which brings me to my second point, the problem is that there is little to no education requirements for cops. Anyone with an Associate’s degree (Junior College) can be a cop. You have closed minded high school flunky’s making choices with guns!!! I am a firm believer that cops need to have higher education requirements, however, people who go to college and do well generally don’t want to walk the beat. I don’t blame them, after I got out of college the last thing I wanted to be was a doughnut jockey, making up for all the ass kicking’s I received as a kid. If someone else had come to help, a family friend, a neighbor and he would have shot the man, he would have been called a murderer. I don’t see why these uneducated cops get a free pass to kill. After reading the posts on here, I am quite certain that most of you are undereducated and have small closed minds. Our society is crumbling because of morons like you. Cops keep shooting people; you are really endearing yourself to the public.
May 20, 2008
12:59 p.m.
Suggest removal
RBN writes:
He was also a diabetic who was losing blood, which was the reason for the call in the first place. Now, I am not a doctor but I know that a diabetic who may be suffering from low blood sugar and a person who is losing blood can act irrationally. IT’S COMMON SENSE. You would have to be damn near retarded to not know something like that. Which brings me to my second point, the problem is that there is little to no education requirements for cops. Anyone with an Associate’s degree (Junior College) can be a cop. You have closed minded high school flunky’s making choices with guns!!! I am a firm believer that cops need to have higher education requirements, however, people who go to college and do well generally don’t want to walk the beat. I don’t blame them, after I got out of college the last thing I wanted to be was a doughnut jockey, making up for all the ass kicking’s I received as a kid. If someone else had come to help, a family friend, a neighbor and he would have shot the man, he would have been called a murderer. I don’t see why these uneducated cops get a free pass to kill. After reading the posts on here, I am quite certain that most of you are undereducated and have small closed minds. Our society is crumbling because of morons like you. Cops, keep shooting people; you are really endearing yourself to the public.
May 20, 2008
1:02 p.m.
Suggest removal
scottmo writes:
Native Americans were here first...
May 20, 2008
1:07 p.m.
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missmilehi writes:
Does anyone else think it's funny that the person who pointed his finger at us and called us morons had to try three times to get his comment posted?
Papi's behavior got to the point that calling a family friend or neighbor (as RBN suggests) was out of the question, or they would have done that, right? Unless their family and neighbors spoke a different language, of course.
May 20, 2008
1:09 p.m.
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MarineGrunt writes:
Yeah, because crossing a ice bridge in 9000BC should count towards NOT being the Native people of the land. Good thought!
May 20, 2008
1:17 p.m.
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hoodedbeagle writes:
RBN, you only need to hit the button once. Good thing you got that college education!
May 20, 2008
1:17 p.m.
Suggest removal
RBN writes:
Miss mile hi, I am sure that the family will never call the police again. See its just like the old saying, "burn me once shame one you, burn me twice shame on me." You think you can call the police for help...until they shoot your father in front of you. I guess you missed the point that a person who is losing blood or suffering from low blood sugar is not going to be able to totally understand what is going on around him. At that point it doesn't matter what language you speak, it matters what condition your mind is in. And for the record I was not pointing fingers, I was just suggesting that people who can't see that the cops are murderers and are dead wrong, are closed minded morons, if you want to put yourself in that boat, by all means do...but don't blame me. Did you attend college, and no cosmetology school doesn’t count.
May 20, 2008
1:18 p.m.
Suggest removal
pbrown writes:
I don't see the problem with this shooting. You don't have to understand English to know you don't hold a knife in your hand while interacting with police in any way. In Mexico, the police would have never used pepper spray or a taser first, they would have just shot him. So what that the police called him and requested he come back to the party. Why would you bring a knife? Why would you even come back? He deserved what he got. You know what they say: Never bring a knife to a gun fight!!!
May 20, 2008
1:19 p.m.
Suggest removal
RBN writes:
Hooded beagle, thanks. It wont happen again.
May 20, 2008
1:21 p.m.
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Orangeandblue writes:
Yee-haw, buckaroos! I seez y’all is masterin’ yer own language just fine. Ya only speak one language, most of youz. But ya cain’t even talk it good. And yet you ignorant fools have the nerve to post poorly written posts like these on the website? Some of you should just keep your fingers off the keyboard, and keep your fool mouth shut. If you are going to cry out for this country to be “English-only,” shouldn’t the “natives” (aka the genocidal maniacs using the Manifest Destiny as justification to take the land and heritage of millions) master the language first?
You only speak one language and you can’t even get that right. Wow, what a bunch of hypocrites! And yet you keep breeding and inbreeding. I have a Spanish last name. I wonder when I’ll get shooed into some sort of concentration camp because of that, even though I am a US-born US citizen. I happen to be bilingual, by the way. My wife too. In fact, she also learned some German. I’d like to see you plop yourself in Mexico and come out speaking Spanish like the locals within a year. You cain’t even talk English good, yokelz!
“Light travels faster than sound. That’s why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.” – Larry the Cable Guy
Listen to one of your own, and hold your tongue.
May 20, 2008
1:24 p.m.
Suggest removal
Heidi writes:
Why did it matter whether he was sane or insane? The fact that he lunged towards the cops with a knife gave them a right to protect themselves. If he was crazy due to low blood sugar, should the cops allow him to hurt or kill?
May 20, 2008
1:27 p.m.
Suggest removal
Miss_Kitty_Kat_Girl writes:
"So, please, stop with the "Native American" BS... They just happened to be the transplanted group living here when the Europeans arrived."
Transplanted or not, American Indians were here loooong before Europeans. Oh and we still had to learn english too!
May 20, 2008
1:30 p.m.
Suggest removal
freedomfighter1 writes:
A lot of RACIST in this room.
May 20, 2008
1:32 p.m.
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BikerChick writes:
..
This is a perfect example of sanctuary processes gone wrong, and an illegal alien who is a seasoned scofflaw = criminal alien. This jerk has been in the USA illegally for 20 years, crossing into California from Jalisco, Mexico. He was a seasoned criminal before his arrival in the USA.
His rap sheet, which the media ignores, has 11 pages of priors in Colorado - PLUS the priors in California (including Grand Theft Auto) with another name and date of birth, from which he ran and adopted a new name, DoB, etc = fraudulent-ID. His fingerprints give him away.
The reporters are certainly lazy, certainly biased, and certainly sympathetic to the 'plight' of the poor, pitiful immigrant family. Their choice of words and phrases is intended to please the Chamber of Commerce.
If the local, county, state and federal law-enforcement authorities and the Denver District Attorney (all but one case during the reign of Bill Ritter) had worked together to do their job, Mr. Valencia would have been deported to Mexico - alive and well today.
The records reveal that YOUR elected and appointed officials are guilty of malfeasance, conspiracy and collusion. Instead of reporting the real truth, the progressive reporters for the progressive news media shelter and protect a criminal alien and hammer the local cops. Not clever.
When John Hickenlooper and Gerry Whitman and Mitch Morrissey and Bill Ritter and Bishop Charles Chaput get it - and realize that their sanctuary processes have resulted in horrible situations and dastardly accusations against loyal and brave cops... maybe they will understand why across the board day-by-day enforcement, to include DAILY cooperation and close teamwork with DHS-ICE, is what the electorate desires and demands, these incidents will be PREVENTED. Not until. NO MORE FINGER-POINTING AND WHINING.
Examples abound. The jerk who assassinated Detective Donnie Young was only on the streets because of Denver's rendition of Special Order 40, a corrupt policing approach adopted by progressive political and appointed leaders who don't have a clue. The cops had him in their hands three separate times, and let him loose each time. Dumb and dumber. It is a short ride to the DHS-ICE incarceration facility in Aurora, and the cops must learn to defy their so-called managers and do the right thing.
Denver cops had Odiseo Valencia in their hands more than ten times, but DHS-ICE was never notified. Never.
The voters MUST realize the depth of the malfeasance, and demand that the Colorado Attorney General investigate and prosecute the authorities who are feeding this gorilla. Enough is enough.
We-the-People MUST demand the incarceration of errant employers and errant law-enforcement 'leaders' and justice 'leaders' - then watch the illegal aliens as the jobs dry up and they voluntarily repatriate... and go 'home.'
..
May 20, 2008
1:33 p.m.
Suggest removal
Orangeandblue writes:
PS. In regard to the shooting itself, I don't fully trust the account written in this article; some of the information is conflicting. It will all get sorted out in the courts/police reports. I'd like to believe, however that the officers performed their job to the best of their ability. That's another thing. You idiots are responding to a written account that in the end, may be way off base. LOL! You're all a bunch of impressionable lemmings! Do you really believe everything you read? Here, let me write something for you to believe: Send me a check for $2,000.00, and you'll be free from all that money! Miraculous! Now do it, lemmings!
May 20, 2008
1:40 p.m.
Suggest removal
ES writes:
Everything she says is just trying to gain support for a law suit. I doubt you can really trust her.
May 20, 2008
1:43 p.m.
Suggest removal
missmilehi writes:
RBN - first of all, my dad wouldn't have a restraining order against him, wouldn't be waving a knife or any other weapon at my family OR THE COPS, and IF by some strange fluke did either of those things (whether he be diabetic or drunk), he would know better than to keep doing them after the police have already tased and peppered him.
But my dad is not the issue.
I'm tired of people blaming the police - who called the cops in the first place? The daughter. People expect the police to come to the rescue, then turn on them for doing their job. What if the dad had hurt one of the children? What would you think of the outcome if Mr Dad of the Year had harmed one of the kids or his wife?
Should the man have died? No. Could the cops have shot his arm or leg instead of his abdomen? Maybe so - but don't blame them when it was Mr Valencia who chose to break his restraining order, get a second even BIGGER knife, and then refuse to drop it when adequately warned. Should they have sat him down and had a "chat" about why his behavior was wrong?
If the family thought they could do a better job of calming down a drunk waving a knife than the police, than they should have done so.
Blame shouldn't be placed anywhere except where it belongs, on the person who broke the law, in this case, Mr Valencia. It's sad that a life ended, on that I will agree. It's sad that his children now have to live with the vision of their dad getting shot, yes I completely agree. But maybe the kids will now know that they shouldn't point a knife at people pointing guns at you (cops or anyone else), or suffer the consequences.
My college educated father and I know that much.
(What have cosmetologists ever done to you? Name calling