Go to the mobile version of this Web site.

Login | Contact Us | Site Map | Paid archives | Electronic edition | Subscription Questions | Extras

Home › News › Education

DPS teachers union seeks intervention

Flap on how to fix compensation plan stalls talks

By Nancy Mitchell, Rocky Mountain News (Contact)

Published May 19, 2008 at 9 p.m.

Text size  

More Education

More stories »

Nearly three years after Denver voters approved a $25 million tax hike to fund a revolutionary pay plan for teachers, less than a third of that money is finding its way into teacher paychecks.

But a dispute over how to fix the plan, called ProComp, is among the reasons that contract talks between Denver Public Schools and its teachers union have stalled.

On Monday, the Denver Classroom Teachers Association petitioned the Colorado Department of Labor to take over negotiations between the union and district after grinding to a halt last week.

"We are disappointed that we must resort to this request," DCTA President Kim Ursetta said. "One more time we have to fight for a decent salary and the effective use of teachers' time."

Superintendent Michael Bennet disagreed that intervention is needed, saying the DPS offer to teachers is "far greater" than that of any other Colorado school district.

Memo to principals

The DPS proposal, outlined in a memo sent Monday to principals, would raise average teacher pay by $9,000 this fall. It also would push average annual starting teacher pay to $44,000, the highest in Colorado.

To do so, the district would make changes to ProComp, which Bennet describes as "urgently needed" in his memo. Among the reasons cited for the changes:

* Teachers will receive less than $7 million this year from ProComp, which is the nation's first wide-scale merit- pay plan for teachers.

* DPS will have $70 million in unspent ProComp funds at the end of this year and $86 million at the end of next year.

* Fewer than 25 percent of teachers with less than 13 years' experience have joined ProComp, and just under half of those with more than 13 years' experience are in.

Bennet contends that the low participation rates, leading to the unspent ProComp dollars, are due to the small annual increases and incentives that teachers receive under the system.

Union leader cites vote

In fact, many mid-career teachers earn more under the old pay plan than under ProComp, and the old pay plan is not considered competitive in the metro marketplace.

So DPS wants to use more of the money up front, getting more money to teachers earlier in their careers.

"That's critical if what we're wanting to do is to attract and retain teachers, which is our single objective when it comes to compensation," Bennet said.

DPS also would triple incentives under ProComp so that, for example, a teacher working in a high-poverty school would receive a $3,000 bonus instead of $1,000.

But Ursetta, with the union, said DPS is talking about "averages" and not all teachers.

"If it were truly $9,000 for all, we would have signed a month ago," she said.

Ursetta also noted that the DPS proposal relies heavily on "where you teach and what you teach" and that the union wants to assist new and veteran teachers.

"They're talking about some radical departures from the ProComp agreement that our teachers and the Denver voters agreed to," she said. "The ProComp promise was that teachers would increase their salary earnings over the life of their careers."

Going up

$9,000 is the DPS proposal, outlined in a memo, that average teacher pay would be raised by this fall.

$44,000 would be the average annual starting teacher's pay, the highest in Colorado, if approved.

Comments

  • May 20, 2008

    12:48 a.m.

    Suggest removal

    jacka writes:

    Vote YES on amendment 47, don't allow Big Unions to card check their anti-worker choice issues through Colorado.

    Vote YES on amendment 47, help Coloradans Protect their Paychecks.

  • May 20, 2008

    4:52 a.m.

    Suggest removal

    jane writes:

    What in the world does that have to do with anything ^^?

    This whole disagreement between DPS and DCTA has to do with DPS foreseeing a big teacher retirement within the next five years and wanting to pay the least out in pensions. In the meantime, the best teachers - mid-career ones - get screwed. New teachers come to Denver, put in a few years, and then take themselves to Cherry Creek and Douglas County where they can make more throughout their lifetimes. Cherry Creek wins - they don't have to train teachers and they get the best years of their teaching lives. Denver kids lose when they are always taught by inexperienced teachers. And if DPS has its way, Southeast Denver will have the lowest paid teachers.

  • May 20, 2008

    5:44 a.m.

    Suggest removal

    bira44 writes:

    When DPS teachers begin acting more like teachers and put less emphasis on being union members, perhaps the public will hear their cries. My experience with grade school teachers has been that they are union first and teachers second.

  • May 20, 2008

    7:27 a.m.

    Suggest removal

    patronusa writes:

    Whatever Bira. I've been teaching for 17 years and I don't ever recall being union first when I was dealing with 25 kids in front of me for 7 hours a day. I was too busy concentrating on teaching, learning styles, behavior, and a load of other issues that had nothing to do with the union in that sense. Yes, when your mediocre paycheck arrives and you see the price of housing, gas, and other living expenses go up while you eek out a living on teaching- you put your focus on the union during those times because that's what the union is there for. You also need the union to support you with adequate planning time, a manageable class size, curriculum implementation, and a plethora of other educational issues that directly impact your ability to teach effectively. So please don't give me this b.s. about teachers being union first.

  • May 20, 2008

    7:49 a.m.

    Suggest removal

    mtman writes:

    $44k a year? As a first-year teacher? Wow! Sign me up! With almost 15 years experience as a chemist, I'm just now getting to that kind of salary level. And just think, three months off to supplement your income as a rafting guide, stocking shelves, or setting up a hot dog stand near the capitol, you could easily break the $50k mark your first year in a classroom. I may have to take another look at this.....

  • May 20, 2008

    8:19 a.m.

    Suggest removal

    psu96 writes:

    as a chemist, you shouldn't be making what a first year teacher makes.

  • May 20, 2008

    9:37 a.m.

    Suggest removal

    kathyM writes:

    mtman, Go ahead, sign up! See how much fun it is to work at a place where the entire community is looking over your shoulder, telling you what to do and how to do it, regardless of your professional judgment and ability. See how enjoyable it is to spend more time controlling student behavior than teaching actual content. Have a ball teaching to the test rather than helping students enjoy learning. And when the kids don't/can't/won't learn, it's all YOUR fault.

    Sounds like the ideal job, doesn't it?

  • May 20, 2008

    10:23 a.m.

    Suggest removal

    junglegymco writes:

    Earl -
    I'm guessing you've never known a teacher that wasn't your own, or your kids. Talk to them about the midnight oil burning to grade papers, or having to deal with the issues the parents are too lazy to address. As the child of two educators, I watched them work 60+ hours a week for 10 months of the year (not 9 months - that's the kids schedule). My parents did it for the love of helping others - is it too much to ask that they make a decent wage for it?! Mom had 2 Masters degrees and Dad a Doctorate and both had opportunites to make a lot more money in the private sector. They chose to teach, but had to fight to make 1/2 of what they would have made in the private sector. $44,000 is not a much money in Denver; have you seen the housing prices? Even in a down economy, $44k isn't enough to buy a run-down slumhome.
    If it were up to people such as yourself, our population would be even more dismally educated that they all ready are, as you seem to want them to "trust" the district to take care of them. I've seen first hand how that's worked in the past. As far as I'm concerned, if it weren't for the unions, my folks would have lived a much poorer life (as would have I) and they would now be retired in a cardboard shack somewhere.

  • May 20, 2008

    10:29 a.m.

    Suggest removal

    junglegymco writes:

    PajamaPulitzer -
    See my comments to Earl.

    We do need to wise-up and stop listening to dolts who somehow insist that teachers have it easy. While my folks worked 60+ hours a week for 10 months, Mom used to undershoot that and tell whiners like yourself that you work 40 hours a week, 50 weeks of the year and she works 55 hours a week for 40 weeks of the year. You do the math - and thank a teacher that you can.

  • May 20, 2008

    10:49 a.m.

    Suggest removal

    junglegymco writes:

    PajamaPulitzer -

    Thank you for making my point by stating you don't care if teachers live on Ramen Noodles. It's your kind of attitude that demands the teachers have a collective voice.
    The article is about wages, so why would the RMN write about apples, when the article is about oranges? Kids' learning is important, but that is NOT the point of the article. Perhaps you should stay in one of your kids writing classes for a day. But be sure to bring the teacher lunch, cause at the paltry $22k a year you say they get at your private school, they're likely to be starving.
    You should be ever so proud to pay near poverty level wages to the people who have your kids body and minds for 8 hours of the day.
    Parents need to wake-up and learn that the unions exist BECAUSE of attitudes such as yours.

  • May 20, 2008

    11:18 a.m.

    Suggest removal

    Dick_Tater writes:

    Pikes Peak just kicked DPS's A$$. Unions only prevent us from firing bad teachers. Those who work hard should be disgusted with those who make the same pay for little effort.

  • May 20, 2008

    11:44 a.m.

    Suggest removal

    Elwood writes:

    All these discussions on wages ignore the amount of their pension plan as well. I would love to have a defined benefit plan to retire on.

    If the teachers want more wages, then take away their cushy pensions and make them save for retirement in 401k's like the rest of us. Just think of all the extra money the school districts would have then.

    If we are not careful, PERA will require a huge bailout by taxpayers soon!

  • May 20, 2008

    12:12 p.m.

    Suggest removal

    junglegymco writes:

    PajamaPulitzer -

    Thank you for continuing to make my point. It's BECAUSE I give a damn about students that I think we should pay a decent wage for good teachers. You apparently think we should not.

    Tell me, will you work in your job (assuming you have a college degree and you aren't a soccer Mom who's husband does all the wage earning) for $22k a year and try to support your family? I'll bet not - and to all of you who want to pay lousy wages to teachers but expect to be paid well yourself, how hypocritical - and all the MORE reason that unions are desperately needed.

    Do you like your weekend? Thank a union. Do you like the 40 hour week? Thank a union. All of you complaining about unions need to travel back to the start of the industrial age. Unions exist because corporations and /or people like yourself wanted the "good life" for themselves, but not for others. And it's obvious from the comments on this board that that is still true.

    I think all parents should be required to spend a week in their children's classes to see the kind of work that's REALLY involved to be a teacher. Until you are one, STOP YOUR WHINING about how "easy" it is, or how "coddled" teachers are.

  • May 20, 2008

    1:18 p.m.

    Suggest removal

    MrsD writes:

    junglegymco

    The weekends and the 40hr work week were introduced during the depression by FDR to encourage companies to hire more employees by mandating time and a half for anything over 40 hrs. It created the possibility of 3 shifts instead of 2 in manufacturing.

    I was raised in a union family and I am a member of a teacher's union, though not by choice. Teacher are professionals, not laborers. We are not in danger of real abuse by management. We are guaranteed a great pension, and most people in the private sector would kill for a regular cost of living increase. Almost everybody works 45-60 hours a week. I don't know anyone who has an easy job-- private or public school or business. Everyone deals with tough clients, ungrateful clients and bosses, unreasonable quotas/standards. For better or worse we as teachers are not exempt.
    We have the coolest job in the world but next to every great teacher, and there are many, there is at least one very loud whiner. (and yes, I have supported myself on 22K)

  • May 20, 2008

    1:56 p.m.

    Suggest removal

    BetterEducated writes:

    I thought it was ludicrous that the teachers would trust the district in the first place. When discretion can be exercised, DPS will apply it to those least deserving in my experience.
    I also thought it was pretty silly that the public would trust it with the dough by voting in favor of something that most of us knew would never be implemented.
    The day that my taxes go to bail out retired DPS admins through PERA or otherwise is the day we leave the state for good after a lifetime of living in Colorado. If these people had cared half as much about children as they did about their cushy futures, we would have real education in Denver instead of .... well, instead of this .... again this year.

  • May 20, 2008

    2:27 p.m.

    Suggest removal

    BetterEducated writes:

    PS to jacka: I don't believe the pending bill will affect PUBLIC entity "collective bargaining agents" one way or the other. "Back to the drawing board!"

  • May 20, 2008

    3:31 p.m.

    Suggest removal

    kirbysfriend22 writes:

    Too many people who don't have any idea what they're talking about making posts here.

    People like this PajamaPulitzer don't have a clue what teachers deal with and the effort they put it in.

    You don't really know what's going on and you're out of touch with reality.

  • May 20, 2008

    3:35 p.m.

    Suggest removal

    psu96 writes:

    Pajama is just a concern troll pay her no mind.

  • May 20, 2008

    4:49 p.m.

    Suggest removal

    patronusa writes:

    Ha!Ha! I love the teacher bashing. You bitter fools sound like me when I was in the 6th grade in DPS and at Regis High with the Jesuits. Bottom line- we teach because we want to teach, but we also deserve decent working conditions and a fair salary. You can put the blame on us all you want for not producing enough scientists, mathematicians, heck- graduates in general but I know how hard I work and I can only do so much from August to May. I've seen my students become successes and some not turn out so well but I would never give that up and work in the private sector for 12 months with a similar salary because that's simply not for me. However, it doesn't mean I'm going to keep my mouth shut and let somebody take advantage of me because there's a public perception that we're somehow overpaid or we have too much time off- it's ludicrous and it's simply un-American.

    BTW, Woohoo! one more day till summer vaca- then it's on to summer school!

  • May 24, 2008

    7:45 p.m.

    Suggest removal

    guerofromtheghetto writes:

    Let me understand the sentiments of many of the users.Highly-educated professionals in a high stress job don't deserve to make
    $44,000 dollars a year($58,000 adjusted if you include summer
    break, when most teachers work on professional and educational
    advancement)?