RTD rider-revenue gap
Sharp rise in passengers not matched by fares or flat sales taxes; cuts in service might need to be considered
By Kevin Flynn, Rocky Mountain News (Contact)
Originally published 11:00 p.m., May 14, 2008
Updated 09:10 a.m., May 15, 2008
Photo by Matt McClain
Evening commuters ride a southbound light-rail train that's packed to the hilt Wednesday. RTD has seen an increase in passengers as more commuters avoid rising gas prices.
Photo by Matt McClain
A northbound RTD light-rail train leaves the station near the University of Denver.
RTD buses and trains are attracting new riders in record numbers as fuel costs and congestion drive more commuters to abandon their cars.
In fact, ridership is up so much that the agency is having difficulty keeping up with the costs of moving all those new customers.
RTD had an 11 percent increase in ridership last year and, through the first quarter of this year, is up another 8 percent.
But the transit agency is falling victim to its own success as it spends more for fuel while contending with flat sales tax revenue that's combined to create a potential $24 million shortfall that could force service cuts.
As the agency adds buses to its most crowded routes, it is paying 55 percent more than it did a year ago to fill them with diesel fuel.
Worse, RTD is far off budget in revenue collections. Even with the unexpected increase in riders, farebox revenue is 3.3 percent lower than anticipated in spite of a general fare increase that took effect in January.
That's because a good portion of the new riders are taking advantage of an annual flat-fee program through their employers. That means more riders, but no more fare revenue.
And sales taxes, the backbone of RTD's budget, are nearly 6 percent below budget through March.
"We are delighted with the continuing increase in ridership, but the jump in gas prices has bitten RTD as well," said Cal Marsella, RTD general manager. "Our sales tax collections are way down, projected to be about $18 million below budget. On top of that, we are paying nearly $6 million more for diesel fuel this year than we paid only one year ago."
Car 'pretty much sits'
"I own a car but it pretty much sits during the week," said Dick Morrell, a downtown resident who works for Verizon in the Denver Tech Center. When the company closed a downtown office and transferred him to an office near Arapahoe Road in January, Morrell became a new RTD customer. He walks to the 18th and Stout light rail station and rides the train to Arapahoe.
"I'm eliminating a lot of the stress that comes with driving around Denver," he said.
And Latisha Clark, of Aurora, who works for US Bank downtown, said she has started leaving her car at home to take a local bus to Nine Mile park-n-Ride, where she catches light rail.
"I had been driving to light rail, but now I don't have to worry about getting the last parking spot there," she said.
Less tax revenue
Because fares only cover about 20 percent of the cost of service, collecting less in sales taxes has a big impact. RTD board member John Tayer said the agency has to develop a better forecasting model for predicting sales taxes in the metro area.
"Otherwise, we have to come back later in the year and have these painful service cuts that are just so difficult," he said.
Added board member O'Neill Quinlan, "We may have to cut low-performing routes to meet the increasing demand on others."
RTD is being clobbered in fuel prices just like the regular consumer. Each year, RTD locks in per-gallon prices for diesel fuel. Last year, its contract was for $2.07 a gallon. This year, it's up to $3.20, after RTD had budgeted for $2.62.
In 2004, RTD's per-gallon diesel cost was $1.11, meaning it's nearly tripled in four years.
Adding riders to the current seats is one thing. But when buses are filled, RTD brings in additional vehicles and adds runs - another driver, another tank of fuel.
Local fares went from $1.50 to $1.75 on Jan. 1. Usually there is a slight drop in ridership attributable to a fare increase - and that might have happened, but is lost in the numbers. What is known is that RTD collected about $700,000 less in fare revenue than it projected.
For sales taxes, it anticipated collecting $103 million in the first three months of the year. Instead it collected $97 million.
Higher fuel prices leave consumers with less disposable income to spend on things that generate sales taxes.
"The implications for RTD are more demands for service, higher fuel prices and lower revenues to support the operation," Marsella said. "Combined, these create very difficult budget and operational challenges."
flynnk@RockyMountainNews.com or 303-954-5247
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May 15, 2008
3:54 a.m.
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warrengfunk7 writes:
What if RTD installed wind turbans along it's light rail and commuter rail corridors (where possible)? Generate some electricity and receive a credit for it from the power company!
For diesel buses and commuter rail trains, RTD can use Diesel-Electric Hybrids which run on bio-diesel or diesel/bio-diesels mixes.
Solutions can be found to this problem and the new energy economy which Colorado is embracing is the answer.
May 15, 2008
4:03 a.m.
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clyde writes:
"Because fares only cover about 20 percent of the cost of service, collecting less in sales taxes has a big impact."
This should tell you all you need to know about RTD. How about we let fares cover 100% of costs?
May 15, 2008
5:29 a.m.
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Brian1973 writes:
"How about we let fares cover 100% of costs?"
You are aware how much that would be right?
May 15, 2008
6:23 a.m.
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JonBen writes:
How about we eliminate every single subsidy we have for cars? Highway taxes, etc. That should tell you all you need to know about Clyde.
May 15, 2008
6:31 a.m.
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Earl writes:
please oh please jonben tell us what subsidy there is for cars? taxes are not a subsidy as I get to pay them and I also drive.
Brian no I dont know how much it would be do you?
I am sure glad I dont pay any rtd taxes so all of you can. at least some of you tax payers are now using the service.
I think I am going to go take a joy ride on my methane producing horse and flip algore off as I go. I will also exhale so as to add co2 to the air.
May 15, 2008
6:42 a.m.
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Froward69 writes:
RTD has been a bloated bureaucracy for years now. every time you purchase a car, motorcycle or parts thereof. RTD got a cut. what happened to all that cash? oh fuel prices... right. how about cutting back on those executives salaries? or investing in electric buses? possibly building light rail to the airport first. that route alone would make a profit. I do agree with warrengfunk7, however RTD has never actually thought of the future or of soaring gas prices, ever becoming a problem. Planning ahead using renewable energy, was and always been "unfeasible" as The Oil company's do not have exclusive rights to the sun or wind. Frankly I have no sympathy for RTD nor any SUV owner. as they never actually planned for the worst.
May 15, 2008
6:51 a.m.
Suggest removal
donbob1000 writes:
Brian,
As long as city councils, master planning, and zoning boards require me to live in one place, work in another, and shop somewhere else I either need a car or mass transit of some sort. If I am going to be taxed for RTD they should collect enough tax for operations and eliminate collecting fairs. This would encourage ridership, save costs, time, and eliminate irritation while boarding. Encouraging ridership is what it's all about.
I just returned from Salt Lake City where they have a fantastic train system. It cost me $4.50 for an all day pass, compared to $7 for a one way bus ticket to DIA. Except for parking it would have been cheaper to drive - even at $3.50 a gallon for gas.
May 15, 2008
7:02 a.m.
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prk166 writes:
Fare collection is dropping despite increasing ridership? Would RTD care to share with the taxpayers more numbers? I have a hard time believing that with such large jumps in ridership the fares they collected are 3.3% lower. The fare increases would've increased the cost of those passes. How many of the flat fee passes are people buying? Also, they are running those buses and trains whether they're 1/4 full or 3/4 or 100%. Essentially it costs them the same to run them regardless of the capacity. Maybe the real problem is that for every train that runs north into downtown during rush hour, it runs back south 1/4 a full. Even less both ways during non-rush hour times.
May 15, 2008
7:05 a.m.
Suggest removal
VVVV writes:
Wind turbines? Electric buses? They don't have enough money to keep driving and you people think they can go out and start blowing money? I see how we got the economy we have with this "logic" running rampant.
What might help is tapping the gas tax for RTD service. Sales taxes rise and fall, but those using gas should be taxed to provide for those who don't as an incentive not to drive. Just like those who drive the buses shouldn't be strangled in a bad economy while the management gets raises.
May 15, 2008
7:40 a.m.
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Spencer writes:
Apparently earp and clod don't believe in public transportation
May 15, 2008
8:14 a.m.
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Konyok writes:
From this story the unwary reader would never even suspect that capital expenditures and debt service due to the ambitious light rail expansion might contribute to RTD's financial situation. It's a shame that Kevin Flynn has gone native, he used to be a really fine reporter.
May 15, 2008
8:23 a.m.
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Houstongolfnut writes:
RTD is a big Black Hole in which to throw productive peoples' tax money. The cat is out of the bag. The more riders the more the loss. Bumper-to-bumper buses running empty cost less than this "train" at any level of ridership. Like the US Postal Service: fewer customers now; so they raise prices. What a business model!
May 15, 2008
8:30 a.m.
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zinny8 writes:
Donbob, are you serious: "As long as city councils, master planning, and zoning boards require me to live in one place, work in another, and shop somewhere else..."??
I feel so bad for you that you HAVE to live in a trendy neighborhood and HAVE to shop at Whole Foods. Get real, yuppie.
Find a job closer to your house or move closer to your job. Simple.
May 15, 2008
9:08 a.m.
Suggest removal
TC writes:
"Even with the unexpected increase in riders, farebox revenue is 3.3 percent lower than anticipated in spite of a general fare increase that took effect in January.
That's because a good portion of the new riders are taking advantage of an annual flat-fee program through their employers. That means more riders, but no more fare revenue."
This is the problem.
You can ride RTD virtually for free with the employer sponsored "Eco-Pass". I've riden RTD for years. I've seen first-hand the explosion in ridership since the first of this year. If everybody was paying full-fare, revenue would be WAY up.
May 15, 2008
9:26 a.m.
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happymike44 writes:
Well let's see big oil has us by the short hairs,We already pay for the transit system,why should we have to pay more?
the object is to get more people to use public transportation.Not charge more so less people use it less.Keep the price down and more people wll ride.But if you raise the cost.Then people will not ride because it may be cheaper to drive your car to work.
May 15, 2008
9:35 a.m.
Suggest removal
Buckwheat writes:
Maybe I am a little slow here. RTD was doing fine driving around in half empty buses for years and we didn't hear a thing. Now, the buses are full (more riders=more revenue) and all of a sudden their talking cut backs because their busy. Seriously, i am not trying to be a smart ass, i really don't get it....
May 15, 2008
10:08 a.m.
Suggest removal
athought writes:
RTD needs to increase enforcement and drive revenues up. No first time warning but rather up it to a $50 on the spot fine for a first offense. I witnessed about 10 people purchasing discounted tickets from the automated kiosks when going to a Rox game last week. These 10 did not qualify (ie. they wern't over 65, ect.) and rode to Downtown for less than 1/2 the fare I paid. I pay full fare and would pay a higher fare for an all day pass than just one round trip. What bugs me is that people jip RTD and feel entitled to do so. Yes, it is already subsidized through taxes but you're already getting a subsidized fare anyways. BTW, when you do this in Germany, it's a 300 Euro fine the first time and the Polezi (police) aren't very nice when they find you (and often they do).
May 15, 2008
10:20 a.m.
Suggest removal
xircon writes:
"This is the problem.
You can ride RTD virtually for free with the employer sponsored "Eco-Pass". I've riden RTD for years. I've seen first-hand the explosion in ridership since the first of this year. If everybody was paying full-fare, revenue would be WAY up."
Not necessarily, if people had to pay full fare maybe they would not use RTD at all.
May 15, 2008
10:24 a.m.
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RickyLee writes:
The Polezi are tough on you. When I was in Germany I was warned not try to refuse a blood alchohol test, they'd just break your nose and get it anyway....enough on that.
I priced an RTD pass to get from Longmont, where I live, to NW Boulder where I work. 144 bucks a month. It's not any cheaper to take the bus. Also, if I want to do errands after work, I'm very restricted, so why would I bother with RTD?
May 15, 2008
10:25 a.m.
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joggle writes:
Houstongolfnut: "fewer customers now; so they raise prices"
Where did you read that? The whole article was about how they have more customers but are paying triple for fuel than they were a few years ago so need to raise prices. Your quote should read "higher fuel costs so they raise fares".
Buckwheat: They used to pay 1/3 the price for fuel as recently as 2004. A significant portion of their budget is spent on diesel fuel so if the expense triples but their revenue doesn't increase enough to pay for it then they are going to have difficulty. It seems their main mistake is that they underestimated how much diesel was going to cost this year so now have to adjust for a budget shortfall.
Wind turbines would be nice but those will not immediately pay for themselves and probably are not a good idea when you already are servicing the debt of the new rail lines. Once they get past this current budget shortfall and are making more money than they expected then they can consider more long-term improvement projects. Maybe with the next president they'll even get federal money to help pay for such a project so it makes sense to wait and see. Even McCain made a speech the other day about how the US needs to get serious about dealing with global warming--a speech that didn't seem to get reported in this paper for some reason. Regardless of who wins the next election I bet there will be much more federal money for projects to reduce CO2 emissions.
May 15, 2008
10:30 a.m.
Suggest removal
Konyok writes:
Joggle,
How much is RTD spending on debt service for light rail construction? Try to even find a financial report on their website. (You sure won't see it in this story.)
We could have absorbed this fuel increase and large salary increases if RTD, and the voters, had not been seduced by this shiny white elephant.
Jon Caldera stands 100% vindicated.
May 15, 2008
10:46 a.m.
Suggest removal
Konyok writes:
RTD has been cutting back service to its core customer base for the last couple of years. People who rely on RTD, or the taxi, for all of their transportation have been paying the price of light rail.
Do you remember the giddy high fives in 2006 when Bronco fans rode the light rail to the games?
With the concentration on light rail and centralized Park and Ride service RTD has made most cross town trips longer, less reliable and more aggravating.
Since Cal Marsella ("RTD is NOT a bus company!") took the reins at RTD, our award winning transit agency has been shifting the lion's share of capitol and labor resources to the shiny prestige of light rail and neglected modernizing the bus system. Irony of ironies is that the entire system only reinforces the autocentric planning model. If you don't live close to one of the centralized nodes you HAVE to use your car to get to the P&R. There is nothing in RTD's model for environmentalists to cheer about. It is designed to have a shiny presence in the suburbs - where the votes are.
So, now it's going broke and THERE'S NOTHING that we can do about it because those lines have been built, the confiscation of private land for new lines is already underway.
Sure, we can put our hand out to the feds. It doesn't help that we already used our share to build TRrex. Those dollars won't materialize out of no where and we are in competition with every other city in the country.
The voters were seduced, we've built the white elephant. Now we're stuck and cutting service will only increase our dependence on cars, and yes, children, on nasty big oil.
May 15, 2008
10:48 a.m.
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joggle writes:
RickyLee: It looks like you looked up the monthly regional fare. However, there are express Bolt buses that take you to Boulder so you would only need to get the monthly express pass, or pay $1,188.00 for a year of monthly passes (gives you a bit of a discount over the $108 per month you would otherwise pay). If you get 25 mpg then you would usually spend about $21 per week on gas alone assuming you aren't car pooling and aren't using diesel (which would cost even more). Based just on this you wouldn't break even (although it would be close), but you are also saving on wear and tear on your car and may be able to leave it in the garage more. Your insurance could also be lowered since you would be driving your car fewer miles per year.
May 15, 2008
10:58 a.m.
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joggle writes:
Konyok: google is your friend. Here's the report on RTD's 2008 debt service (hosted on their website): http://www.rtd-denver.com/Projects/Fi...
It's pretty detailed and should have whatever information you are interested in.
Sooner or later we will need to find alternative sources of energy for transportation, even G. W. Bush says this. Otherwise, for the short term we will be involved with OPEC nations and in the long term prices will only increase as worldwide demand increases and supply stays fixed or even lowers. Like it or not part of the solution will be some sort of rail and involve mass transit.
May 15, 2008
10:59 a.m.
Suggest removal
SockRayBlue writes:
Now that RTD has actually seen their wildest fantasy come true (more riders) they are caught flat footed. Unconceivable!!!!!!! Cutting back service? Unbelievable!!!!! Where did the RTD Board of Directors come from? Oops, other unsuccessful Colorado corporations. Yikes!
May 15, 2008
11:01 a.m.
Suggest removal
Oh_Wise_One writes:
Why do I think this article and many more to follow, is setting up the inevitable tax increase to me. Why, oh why.
I want to speak truth to power.....NO MORE TAXES!
May 15, 2008
11:11 a.m.
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Konyok writes:
Thanks, Joggle. (Sometimes I AM a bit boneheaded ... )
As you can see almost half of RTD's budget is servicing the debt. (Hmmm ... I wonder which bond houses administer those instruments ... )
Geography is destiny. The San Francisco bay area is the perfect place for rail transport. Everybody crossing from the east bay into the city has to take one of two bridges. BART works like a charm.
Denver is a sprawling mess with no geographic barriers. It is some weird species of bureaucratic megalomania that presumes that investing all of our transit resources into a system that radiates out from downtown is even a mediocre solution to the problem.
RTD could be pioneering in alternative fuels and technologies. (Just imagine - biomass methane from garbage collection and wastewater treatment ...)
They sold us a bill of goods.
May 15, 2008
11:12 a.m.
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Konyok writes:
warrengfunk7,
Sure we could build wind turbines all along every light rail line, and then you can drive by, feeling all warm and runny inside.
May 15, 2008
11:21 a.m.
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joggle writes:
You may be right Konyak but I'll wait a few years before I make up my mind about it. This was a very rapid increase in fuel prices (faster than I've ever seen) so it's understandable that they would be caught a bit flat-footed on it. I think long-term RTD will be in demand because people don't want to spend a lot of money on gas and don't want to buy an expensive new car that gets better fuel economy. Probably RTD will charge businesses more money for Eco Passes next year to cover the higher fuel prices. Unfortunately for RTD this is a yearly bill so in the meantime they have to deal with not having enough money to do all the services they would like to do.
May 15, 2008
11:26 a.m.
Suggest removal
CrazyCoconut writes:
The flat fee that RTD mentions that users take advantage of is not necessarily true. Yes I pay a small amount for my Eco-Pass through my empoloyer, but this is part of my benefits of my job and my company subsidizes the rest of the cost back to RTD per rider that we have subscribed. It is also a fee that has the potential to change (and it did increase this last year). So maybe I don't understand, but to me that comment doesn't make any sense.
Also, I agree with the poster stating that RTD needs to increase enforcement and I am 100% on board with not giving out a warning. It is a fine from the first time to every time. I was amazed and appalled when I rode the train to the Broncos game this past season - RTD essentially put a road block up stopping every rider to verify that the fare was paid. It was chaos, but it was this because at least a third of the people getting off the train, hadn't paid for their fare. So let's assume half of the people going to the game rode public transit - that's about 35,000 people. Of those 35,000 people, a third didn't pay their fare - that brings it down to about 11,500 people. Multiply that by a $50 (or more) fine - instead of writing warning for all of these people and RTD just made over a half a million dollars in one day!! Instead, 9 out of 10 people I watched received a warning. That was AFTER RTD personnel spent on average 6-8 minutes gathering the rider's information, calling into dispatch to verify they weren't a previous offender, writing the ticket and then sending them to a both to pay the fare. Three RTD personnel per rider times 8 minutes times the wages paid.....you do the math!! We are paying for the people that want to abuse the system - SURPRISED??
Another thing is that RTD could look to the free 16th street shuttle as something that needs to be revamped. Running a shuttle every 1-2 minutes up and down a 15 block area is ridiculous! Either charge people for this convenience or cut back on the number of buses that run this route.
It is amazing how Americans have taken on the attitude of "give me more". It is about balance - the government and companies are not here to solve all of our issues. People need to be part of the solution too. Ride your bike to the bus stop or P&R, walk the 16th street mall, purchase the correct fare when you ride and at the least, get involved and educated so that when the time comes around to vote for things like Light Rail, you are educated to make the right decisions!
Wake up people!
May 15, 2008
11:32 a.m.
Suggest removal
Konyok writes:
Joggle,
RTD has always been in great demand, that's why the district was formed to buy the old Denver Tramway company.
I have never owned a car. Living on Capitol Hill, I have always used RTD for commuting, running errands and even Xmas shopping. Ever since the new light rail routes came on line bus service has been deteriorating. Express bus routes have been truncated and they channel traffic to the light rail. For example, a trip from Longmont to the Tech Center is now 30 minutes longer because you now have to make your way down the mall to the light rail station instead of transferring at Civic Center Station. (An expensive capital expenditure of the past, now running at 30% capacity.)
People who REALLY depend on the bus - the young, the old, the poor and the disabled are the ones paying for RTD's fascination with light rail.
Eventually, the cuts in service will reach a horizon where RTD, fat with sales tax revenue, won't offer as much service as Denver Tramway used to.
Can you understand my disappointment with Kevin Flynn?
May 15, 2008
11:34 a.m.
Suggest removal
Konyok writes:
Light rail is terrific for moving lots of people to or from one place, like CrazyCoconut's Bronco game. It really suks at moving lots of people to or from lots of different places.
May 15, 2008
11:40 a.m.
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temurlan writes:
"but those using gas should be taxed to provide for those who don't as an incentive not to drive."
RTD doesn't go where I go. At the point where it costs me more to go to work than I get paid, am I supposed walk? And don't bring up carpool, that doesn't work either.
May 15, 2008
11:42 a.m.
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joggle writes:
CrazyCoconut: I'm pretty sure the 16th street shuttle is funded by the local businesses so RTD isn't losing any money there.
Konyok: I understand your disappointment. I think people were under the impression that RTD was adding rail without significant changes to the bus routes when they voted for it. Hopefully RTD will be able to reestablish some of these services next year or the one after that once they are able to capitalize on this increase in demand they've experienced. I recall reading how lots of people complained about the time needed for the commute doubling due to various express bus routes being canceled and instead being forced to take a bus to the rail, take the rail and then transfer to another bus to get to their destination rather than just taking one bus as they had in the past (although I also read that several of these express routes were reestablished fortunately).
May 15, 2008
11:50 a.m.
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Konyok writes:
Joggle,
I'm afraid that the fault lies in the light rail concept, not RTD's execution. It works really well in San Francisco because of the bay and the peninsula. New York wouldn't work without fixed rail transit. But, Denver? To be user friendly, the entire metro area would have to be covered by a sort of checkerboard grid of rail lines, maybe 5 miles apart. Only about a third of all Denver area commutes actually go downtown.
So, we're left with the horrible fact that RTD is doing a worse job of replacing cars than it did 10 years ago. We do, however, have a wonderful, shiny new light rail system with public "art" in its stations!
May 15, 2008
noon
Suggest removal
xeeian writes:
Yeah, RTD has screwed it all up. Instead of investing in forward looking technologies, like bio-mass hover buses (which have no issues with traffic), they built this silly light rail system, and run diesel buses.
Boy, RTD really screwed up.
May 15, 2008
12:11 p.m.
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Konyok writes:
Aside from the mind boggling sums of money spent on construction and servicing the debt ($126 million in bond payments this year, from $262 million in total revenue - Hat tip to Joggle), there is the problem of RTD's labor practices.
It takes a new hire RTD driver 3 years to become a vested full-time employee. During that time they work split shifts and sometimes for weeks without a day off. The attrition rate is something like 60% in that period. What often happens is that a trainee receives training, and a class C license, works a few months for RTD and then gets a real job. It's a revolving door.
The plum for experienced RTD drivers with seniority is to operate the train - no riders and little traffic to contend with.
This means that many routes are operating with inexperienced drivers, an alarming number of them with limited English proficiency. It is becoming more common all of the time for a scheduled bus to take a wrong turn or just not to show up at your stop at all.
The sad fact is that a lot of the time, the routes serviced by the much maligned contractors (Veola, Laidlaw) are more reliable than those run by RTD iself.
Why doesn't Kevin Flynn ever write about this stuff?
May 15, 2008
12:28 p.m.
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RickyLee writes:
I've gotten out my mountain bike, 15 miles one-way. Piss on RTD.
May 15, 2008
12:40 p.m.
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medina88 writes:
The Regional Transportation District has signed a $184 million contract for 55 new light rail cars to be built by Siemens Transportation Systems Inc.
Well that's a big chuck there huh!!
I see people ride the light rail everyday and think of it as a free ride downtown. They don't pay, they take a chance that there will be no security guard on board. Some one always gets a ticket when security does step on. Every time!! I can NOT imagine how much money they are loosing on non-paying riders. They need more security or a better system to catch free-riders. Also when they do get ticketed, raise the prices on the fines.
Needless to say, everyone that does get caught (that I have seen) were never kicked off the train. They continued riding to their stop. It's really not fair for those of us that are paying honestly every month to keep from paying downtown parking and gas.
May 15, 2008
12:43 p.m.
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joggle writes:
RickyLee: Good for you. That's a nice ride between Longmont and Boulder with a wide shoulder, nice views and pretty much no hills although wind sure can be annoying. I try to ride in from Lafayette as much as I can but have to climb a 300' hill first thing in the morning and often lack the motivation to do it and just drive instead.
May 15, 2008
12:46 p.m.
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joggle writes:
If you ride in to Boulder often I'd highly recommend getting a road bike. They aren't as comfortable but they have a better gear ratio for a ride like that and are a bit more efficient than a mountain bike (due to lower wheel resistance).
May 15, 2008
12:58 p.m.
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Konyok writes:
medina88,
Big check, indeed. Manufactured in Germany, I reckon.
How far could that $184 million go spent on salaries for drivers right here? (Ok, we'll deduct half to buy new energy efficient buses.)
RTD made a conscious decision to invest in expensive and inflexible infrastructure instead of labor. (Hey, I'm no liberal! I just find it a bit incongruous when Democratic candidates boast of their job creation credentials and then Democratic party controlled government entities buy expensive foreign built capital stock instead of hiring, training and employing actual workers.)
May 15, 2008
1:27 p.m.
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JSeifert writes:
Why do we not do what some european cities have done no cars in the city park outside and rail everywhere else that eliminates the car and gas, eliminates the need for bus's and gas. They just have to wagon wheel the rail system, not just to the rich people's homes but through the whole city. They built large parking areas for the people, then you catch the rail from there. thats of course if you schedule everything right with 24hr rail. The rail trains came every 30 min they put solar and wind up to help with the cost of electric trains. It was great and a road ran through town with a number of stops to rail stations you could not drive through town. Cleaner, safer, and you did not have to worry about traffic jams.
May 15, 2008
1:56 p.m.
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TNC writes:
I agree, try actually checking fares and I guarantee revenue will soar. It is ridiculous how many people get caught with no fare on the light rail.
I am so tired of every solution being "raise prices". There is a breaking point and many families are reaching it and in some cases have passed it.
Also, wasn't there a surplus from the t-rex project? what happened to that money?
May 15, 2008
2:11 p.m.
Suggest removal
Konyok writes:
JSeifert,
At a cost of ... ?
The interest on what RTD owes now for a system that is convenient to maybe 5% of the metro area is something like $60 million per year (assuming that half of the $125 annual expense is paying principal).
This, plus combating global warming, plus paying for social security and pensions, plus universal health care?
Those European systems were built when almost EVERY city had to be reconstructed after being destroyed in WWII. The rail network was an integral part of the city design. (Plus, most of those cities are built around some kind of geographic feature, like a major river that channels traffic to a few choke points.)
It is exactly that "wouldn't it be cool ... " kind of thinking that got us into this mess that we're in right now.
TNC:
How much of the shortfall do you estimate to be unpaid fares? I'll bet you American dollars that the cost to hire guards to collect every single solitary fare on light rail would be double or triple the amount of uncollected revenue.
We've been had and THERE IS NO SOLUTION IN SIGHT.
May 15, 2008
3 p.m.
Suggest removal
Konyok writes:
bropous,
Two guards at $12.00 per hour need to catch 13.7 scofflaws per hour, assuming that they're are jumping only 1 light rail zone, just to pay for their own salaries.
There is no way to verify ownership of a bus pass. If I lose my $108 per month express pass I am SOL.
There is no solution in sight. RTD has over invested in infrastructure and has no flexibility to cope with fuel price fluctuations.
The usual suspects sold us a bill of goods. The Pena era coalition of yuppie boosters, gee whiz technocrats, the bond houses, the media and labor bosses convinced the voters that light rail was a great investment in the fu-uuutuuure! <echo sound effect/on>
Jon Caldera and other cranky conservatives tried to warn us, but we were dazzled by the shiny Disneyland. Obviously, anybody opposing light rail is a dinosaur and a tool of big oil, right?
May 15, 2008
3:18 p.m.
Suggest removal
Konyok writes:
It's classic.
The liberals all say "Well, I've got my mountain bike ... "
The conservatives say "Enforcement! That's the key!"
Meanwhile, where will RTD cut service? Will it be that sad bus ride out for visitors out to the Denver County Jail on Smith Road? Will it be AccessiRide? There are lots of routes that would have more ridership if the service were more reliable. Those will likely be the ones cut. We could find ourselves with vast swatches of the metro area without any bus service at all. Of course, the PUC regulated taxi business won't allow any private competition.
RTD has to cut expenses. The only other option is to default on the bonds.
Debt forgiveness for Middle America? Maybe I should join the protests at DNC ...
May 15, 2008
3:42 p.m.
Suggest removal
joggle writes:
I've never ridden the rail in Denver so am wondering why/how there are so many fare jumpers. Don't they have some sort of turnstile you have to walk through with a valid ticket or pass? If not, why not?
May 15, 2008
3:53 p.m.
Suggest removal
Konyok writes:
Joggle, my friend
There is no turnstile because the light rail stations are all outdoors and they would significantly slow down the traffic flow.
Rumors of some great epidemic of fare jumpers are greatly exagerrated. Most people are, like Denverites tend to be, cooperative and law abiding.
It's a canard. There is no great bounty of uncollected revenue just waiting to be claimed. Trying to catch fare jumpers would cost more than the unpaid fares.
The problem is that light rail is an expensive boondoggle that ultimately weakens RTD's mission to move people where they want to go.
May 15, 2008
4:14 p.m.
Suggest removal
Konyok writes:
Oddly enough, I have to run and catch my bus now, hoping that the nice Somali man isn't too late to catch my connection again.
We've been had. There is no solution.
May 15, 2008
4:39 p.m.
Suggest removal
medina88 writes:
WHAT Konyok??!!! the amount of fare jumpers is NOT exagerrated. I can't even believe you can assume that. People do it every day! I have seen mothers with children not paying for their over 5 child, I have been business men in suits & ties, and a I have seen students get caught without their passes. Maybe on the bus they can't get away with it but surely the light rail they. I see the same security people checking for passes and that is only about 3 of them. Trust me...people DO NOT PAY!!!!
May 15, 2008
5:18 p.m.
Suggest removal
cobanobs writes:
Added board member O'Neill Quinlan, "We may have to cut low-performing routes to meet the increasing demand on others."
I find it interesting that Mr. Quinlan would make this statement.
Perhaps one of the first routes that should be cut is the reinstated Regional route "P" that operates in his district and duplicates service provided by Light Rail.
You might remember that RTD eliminated many Regional and Express routes when they opened the Southeast Corridor in November of 2006.
Their reasoning in doing this was they did not want the expense of running bus routes that competed against themselves(Light Rail).
Passengers who formerly rode Express and Regional buses to their destinations were required to ride "feeder" buses to Light Rail stations and then transfer to Light Rail.
I attended the RTD Board meeting in January of 2007 where several former route "P" passengers complained to the board about having to transfer to Light Rail.
Shortly thereafter, the RTD Board reinstated the route "P" and several other routes.
I wonder how much money it is costing the taxpayers to provide an alternative service option to certain RTD riders while other riders have no alternative choice?
May 15, 2008
5:51 p.m.
Suggest removal
athought writes:
I fully agree with Medina. The 10 people I saw purchase the discounted fares were likely doing so only because RTD security only looks for a pass, not a fully valid fare. We didn't even have any fare checkers on the ride in or the ride out. People are ripping off RTD on the rail lines and should be punished. For those who forgot their passes, it should be treated just like forgetting your auto insurance card. You have to go before a judge or fax in your proof of payment within 7 or 10 days to get the fine waived.
Konyok: If you increase the penalty to an automatic $50 minimum for not having a valid fare, wouldn't 2 security cops only have to catch 2 per hour at a $12/hr rate? I figure $12/hr salary, $13/hr benefits (pretty high but just for sake of arguement) that's $50/hr total. RTD is in the black on the 2nd offender caught in an hour. I'd be even willing to spring a bonus on crews that caught the most that month. Most people would gladly pay the $6.75 full RT fare from Lincoln than risk the automatic $50 minimum. Plus, think how many more could be caught if the security was able to hold a train up. For example, 2 offenders on a car would cause the whole train to hold until that car's passengers was fully verified. For sporting events, that would cause HUGE peer pressure for everyone to have a valid fare. I know that I wouldn't want to be the guy causing a hold on a train going to Mile High on Sunday. I might not live to tell the tale either.
May 15, 2008
6:40 p.m.
Suggest removal
Go_Buffs writes:
I waited for 45 minutes today for an east bound route 20 bus to arrive at 17th and Sherman. According to the schedule four buses should have come and gone during that time. As far I am concerned, RTD deserves to lose money if it cannot deliver a decent, let alone quality, product.
May 15, 2008
10:12 p.m.
Suggest removal
jacka writes:
More people are using the JIM REISBERG PLAN - buy one ticket and never validate it.
Typical freeloading democrat!
May 16, 2008
1:39 a.m.
Suggest removal
warrengfunk7 writes:
RTD doesn't need to hire more security to enforce fares...
RTD can fine fare violators $500 for the first offense, $1,000 for the second offense and $5,000 for 3rd or subsequent offenses.
That should deter most people from not paying for a ticket and those that do, will give RTD a nice little chick of cash to help pay for security and other costs.
I also think charging parking fees for people from outside of the RTD district should be revisited. If they are from outside the RTD district, then they aren't paying the sales tax on a regular basics that all of you pay, to have the service provided to you. Why should they be allowed to take your parking spot and sit in your train seat, if they aren't paying the cost of it like you are?
Like all those people in Castle Rock whom voted to exclude themselves from the RTD sales tax collection region. They figured they could still drive to the Lincoln Park-n-ride and use RTD whenever they want, whether they pay the sales tax or not. Why should they be allowed to do that? That's called fee circumvention.
May 16, 2008
11:48 a.m.
Suggest removal
Brain writes:
Isn't light rail powered by electricity? If RTD is using less buses and more light rail... RTD is taxpayer funded more than 80%; most of the solution is to charge more fare and enforce paying it. Taxing people more to manipulate them is ridiculous.
May 17, 2008
12:55 p.m.
Suggest removal
gash22 writes:
Did you guys even bother to read the article?
It is the bus routes, which use diesel that are a large part of the problem. The cost of electricity, which powers the train, has not risen as much as the cost of diesel.
It is way cheaper to add another car to a train, than to add a another bus trip.
RTD is being smart with rail. Contrary to what John "I want a bigger highway for my BMW" Caldera claims, the operating costs for rail are way cheaper for rail than bus. So in ten years when fastracks is done, RTD will not be as susceptible to this problem. Its called planning, they are forking over more money now for the higher capital costs of rail, in exchange for lower operating costs in the long run. Thus saving the taxpayers that Caldera claims to care so much about money in the long run.
PS- Those rail cars are made in california.