5 questions for author Jim Collins

By Joanne Kelley, Rocky Mountain News (Contact)

Monday, May 12, 2008

Jim Collins

Jim Collins

* Collins' best-selling business books have become almost as popular with leaders of churches and charities as they have with corporate executives.

The Boulder-based author describes his now-classic Built to Last and the more recently published Good to Great as so "data-driven they should put anyone to sleep." But the hopeful message he says they offer has helped sell a combined 4 million copies over the years.

Collins will be in Denver on Wednesday to speak about how both nonprofit organizations and businesses can benefit from his extensive research into why some companies have been able to make the leap from "good to great."

Collins, who preaches about setting "big, hairy audacious goals," celebrated his 50th birthday earlier this year by tackling another Yosemite rock climb.

He spoke by telephone Friday with Rocky Mountain News reporter Joanne Kelley. His edited remarks follow:

1How can a nonprofit measure whether it's great - or is going from good to great - when you measure success by tracking stock performance?

You have to show superior results relative to your mission, whether it's educating, reducing chronic homelessness or improving artistic performance. For an orchestra, you could track the number of people who want you to play their work, how many festivals that invite you, how many standing ovations you get and the range of music you can play.

You want to have an impact on the community and the world you touch, so that if your nonprofit disappeared it would leave an unfillable hole. And you always want to do all of this without depending just on the CEO.

2Have you found companies do better with leaders who devote everything to work or does having some balance help?

We found half the companies we studied had CEOs who didn't have anything else in their lives aside from building a great company. The other half had real passions but also built great companies, even if they never worked nights or weekends. The evidence does not show that you have to give up your whole life. That's a choice, not a requirement.

3Does a weak economy trip up companies trying to make the transition from good to great?

If you've been building up to greatness all along, difficult times are your friend. Your strength allows you to stay on course. You're just going to be so much stronger than those who didn't drive themselves relentlessly hard when the weather was good.

4Labor has become a big issue in Colorado recently. How many great companies have good relations with unions?

In our research we have seen some companies that are heavily unionized that have positive relationships with their workers. Most of the workers at Southwest Airlines belong to unions and have all along.

That's a company that puts a tremendous emphasis on a relationship with its employees. It emphasizes being in service to employees as more important than being in service to customers. If you do that, employees will take care of the customers.

The key is not to view employees as a cost. The moment you think of them as a cost, they're going to act like costs. The best approach is to treat people as if "we're all in this together."

5What about companies that are already great?

The thing I've learned is that great leaders and companies were only good relative to what they could do next. They never felt satisfied with what they'd done.

I really think that's the way these people are wired. They're just not happy with what they've done. When I asked Peter Drucker which of the books he'd written he thought was the best, he told me: "The next one." It's part of the productive neurosis to think that way.

If you go

* What: Jim Collins, best-selling author of Good to Great, speaks about how to apply his book's principles to the business sector and to nonprofits.

* When: 9:30-11:30 a.m. Wednesday

* Where: Colorado Convention Center, 700 14th St., Denver

* Cost: $75 per ticket

* Information and tickets:

communityfirstfoundation.org