George Kochaniec Jr. / The Rocky
Attorney Mari Newman, left, hugs Kate Burns as Sheila Schroeder looks on after the pair were convicted of trespassing. Each paid $41 in court costs and must perform community service.
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A Denver jury took less than an hour Wednesday to convict a lesbian couple of trespassing for staging a sit-in when they were refused a marriage license.
Kate Burns and Sheila Schroeder held hands, sitting quietly as the verdict was read. Schroeder gave Burns a wink after they heard the verdicts.
The two, who work at the University of Denver, were arrested Sept. 24 when they refused to leave the Denver county clerk's office in protest of the Colorado law that bans marriage for same-sex couples.
"We were not surprised by the verdict," Schroeder said. "I would absolutely do it again. We're not just talking about the gay community but hundreds of thousands of Coloradans who want to change this law."
The women each paid their $41 court costs and said they will cheerfully serve the 28 hours of community service the judge imposed.
"We know the road to justice is a long one," Burns said. "It's an honor to serve a sentence for something that may help improve our community. I would serve any sentence for this cause."
Lawyers for the couple challenged the constitutionality of Amendment 43, which defines marriage as the union of one man and one woman, but County Judge James Breese said he could not decide that issue.
Defense attorney Mari Newman said they hadn't decided what to do next.
"This is just a first step down a long road to equal rights," Newsman said. "This was an opportunity for Kate and Sheila to exercise their First Amendment rights to express that the law is unjust. I could not be more proud to represent them."
Prosecutors said they broke the law when they refused to leave the clerk's office.
Burns testified that she participated in the sit-in to protest that the law denies equal rights to lesbian couples who want to marry.
"We believe the law prevents us from the free exercise of our religion," said Burns, a Unitarian. "We feel as good citizens and people of conscience, we must stand up against injustice when we witness it. We cannot receive the same services from that office that everyone else does."
The Rev. Michael Morran, of Denver's First Unitarian Church, said he accompanied the women during their attempt to get a marriage license, planning to marry them "on the spot" if they succeeded.
"I thoroughly and completely believed in what they were doing," he said. "They held hands as long as they could until the officers put their hands in handcuffs and led them away."
lindsays@RockyMountainNews.com or 303-954-5181
Comments
Posted by j_j on May 8, 2008 at 12:51 a.m. (Suggest removal)
They broke the law. I am thankful that the jury made the right decision. Even if our state eventually bows to the homosexual lobby, marriage will always be between one man and one woman in God's eyes. For now, the majority of Coloradans' have spoken and thus we have amendment 43.
By refusing to leave the office they were breaking a law...they trespassed. Justice was served in this case. As women of "conscience" I hope that you will truly see the light of what is right and wrong from God's standpoint.
Posted by theQ on May 8, 2008 at 1:08 a.m. (Suggest removal)
The road your heading down will simply be that eventually someone should be able to marry a jackass or somehow its not fair...i laff at you fools.
Posted by nicolec on May 8, 2008 at 6:46 a.m. (Suggest removal)
j_j and the Q- your comments remind me of the arguments people in the 1950s made about interracial marriage. You're close minded, hateful and completely ignorant.
j_j I'm not sure if you're one of those crazies who thinks you and God commune regularly where he/she tells you things etc but I don't feel like you have the right to speak for God or to tell us how God sees things. Frankly, you are no more special than any of the rest of us- get a grip. Worry about what God is going to think of your actions, words and thoughts. If you're like the rest of us, there is plenty to criticize within yourself.
I find that when people start claiming they understand the inner workings and thoughts of their God they are capable of atrocities (9/11 is a fabulous example).
Posted by ColoNative on May 8, 2008 at 6:47 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Where is this taking us? Well, ask the polygamists.
Posted by happymike44 on May 8, 2008 at 6:51 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Well for all hate mongers the marriage rite you practice today was the one the all male spartan army used to take when paired with a partner in defense of the sparta population.So the sad part is your denying the very people who gave you the marriage ritual.Bet you did not know it did you.Well I was raised in europe while my father was on a tour of duty.This a real fact go look it up on the internet.So if you deny one person then you deny all the people the respect and dignity they deserve.I guess your the same idiot who had me thown out of the restaurant and two bookstores I go to with my service dog.I am deaf and jerks like you make life hard for everyone with your bible is the only way.Put that book down and look at the human factor,Love is for everybody and so is respect.It takes alot of courage to stand up and protest for something you believe in.I have seen a hate crime right in front of my own eyes and it was down right scary.I did not allow it to happen without stepping in.I maced those guys for their part in this awful crime.So when you don't teach love and tolerance for others then you are not listenng to god's words.Beware of the hate monger ministers who only want your money so they can drive a new cadillac every year and a new fur coat for the wife.When you wake up and see this then you will understand.Religion is only about how much money you can give and how will I look to the others in church on sunday.So remember it was supposed to be about loving and caring for each other.So pratice religion the way it was supposed to be practiced by giving of your heart.Love and respect does not cost a thing,but anger and hatred will desroy you inside.What would jesus do love everyone no matter who they were.Jesus died for everyone's sins!
Posted by Shaupeen on May 8, 2008 at 7:05 a.m. (Suggest removal)
There are a lot of scared, ignorant people out there. You narrow-minded hate mongers are the Bull Connors of this generation, and I can't wait until public opinion turns, revealing you to be the ugly, mean people you actually are.
Posted by holekeeper on May 8, 2008 at 7:23 a.m. (Suggest removal)
yea, yea, yea, this was talked about and debated all day long yesterday with nothing but insults and the such. All the people saying that the people who are aginst gay marriage are intolerant back woods, bible thumping, beer drinking, rednecks. Not realizing that they are being just as intolerant of people and thier belifs as the ones opposed.
"There are a lot of scared, ignorant people out there. You narrow-minded hate mongers are the Bull Connors of this generation, and I can't wait until public opinion turns, revealing you to be the ugly, mean people you actually are."
why, because I dont think and act like you I am ignorant? Why cant people just debate and accept that people are diffrent.
Posted by Spencer on May 8, 2008 at 7:38 a.m. (Suggest removal)
All the same silly arguments (marrying horses etc) were made when people argued about inter-racial marriage. It has absolutely no effect on me or my marriage if 2 people of the same sex get married. I really think the people who are so dead set against it have some real issues.
Posted by MarineGrunt on May 8, 2008 at 7:39 a.m. (Suggest removal)
j_j and theQ,
You are MORE then welcome to find another Country to live in. As a person who continues to secure your Freedoms, I find we no longer are needing a 13th century mentality that does nothing but bring Hate towards other humans who have done NOTHING to you. These are too many problems in this word as it is. Just because your magic shy fairy says it is wrong, that is not the final word! If your magic sky fairy would be willing to remove itself and come talk to us about it's position, then I would put a little credit to your name, but this we will never see. So, in closing, please find a better place to plant your bigot and closed minded idea's.
BYE BYE
Posted by Spencer on May 8, 2008 at 7:53 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Why cant people just debate and accept that people are diffrent.
Posted by holekeeper
Wow, don't you see the irony? Marine you are absolutely right. Iran has made being gay against the law. Nice company for the anti-gays to keep.
Posted by holekeeper on May 8, 2008 at 7:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Hey rockymountainnews.com staffers
wwwwwweeeeeeeeeeeee oooffffff!!!!!
Posted by MarineGrunt on May 8, 2008 at 8:05 a.m. (Suggest removal)
So... holekeeper. What will your next screen name be? So we know it's you.
Posted by nicktaste on May 8, 2008 at 8:16 a.m. (Suggest removal)
the self righteous are more often than not, more wicked than the people they oppress
if the people on the left are "socialists"
then the people on the right are "fascists"
Posted by FloydHill on May 8, 2008 at 8:23 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Lesbos and gays feel a misguided need to rub our noses in their perverted lifestyle.
Guess what. I don't care if you're straight or gay. I don't want to know. It's none of my business. I don't tell the world that I'm hetero! I don't make a big deal out of.
I'm glad that they lost. I wish they did jail time.
I will discriminate against gays as long as they continue to make a big deal out of what they are.
Posted by freethought on May 8, 2008 at 8:48 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I suggest that everyone with a hateful or negative comment, please be brave and state your name and area in which you live. These women were brave enough to speak their mind without a guise to protect them. You disagree sooo much, then you come out of the "closet", too. Chicken???
Posted by gr8fuldude on May 8, 2008 at 8:50 a.m. (Suggest removal)
For all it concerns me, I don't care if these two chose to marry their English Sheepdogs. Just keep the action behind closed doors.
As to trespassing, the got the just verdict. Try to imagine the annoyance and frustration you would feel if they pulled this act at DMV, the bank, or your workplace. My thought is that you would feel the same level of frustration as you would for any other yutz going out of their way to make a "statement".
If these two want to make a statement, try not being public pains in the tail. That only sets back their own cause.
Posted by freethought on May 8, 2008 at 8:55 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Arrested for trespassing in a public building? Hello, Communism, Hello.
Posted by nicolec on May 8, 2008 at 9:07 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Funny that some of you criticize them for doing exactly what African Americans did during the 60s. Sit-ins were inconvenient, that was the point. Non-violent protest is extremely useful and a great way to take a stand without hurting anyone.
Were these women guilty of trespassing- yes, that was the point.
Posted by freethought on May 8, 2008 at 9:12 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Without civil protest we would not be the country that we are today. Speak your mind, bring change.
Posted by Cwillyrun1 on May 8, 2008 at 9:18 a.m. (Suggest removal)
They are guilty of trespassing and that's the bottom line. Should they receive special consideration because of their lifestyle?
Are they so desperate for attention and acceptance, craving such an ego boost, that they have to trespass when they know beforehand they'll get in trouble for it? They can protest to the public for us to change the law, since the voters of the state said no special rights for gays, but the County Clerk, the politicians, and the courts can't change it. They're no different as people than anyone else, there's good and bad, stupid and smart. I know some that are hilarious, or helpful to others, and others that don't believe in personal hygiene of any kind or one that says she "can kick anyone's a s s"..... although at 4'10" and 100 pounds, she's gullible. Sounds like anyone around us. It's not about them as people, and their lifestyle is their business. I've had ex's that were bi and I was cool with it, they're people with desires and feelings and that's not what should be ignored or put down. But marriage is different.
Marriage is between husband and wife. So, which of these two is the husband and which one's the wife?
Posted by Steve on May 8, 2008 at 9:19 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Colorado: the land of beautiful weather, beautiful mountains, and hateful disrespectful people.
Posted by Cwillyrun1 on May 8, 2008 at 9:21 a.m. (Suggest removal)
holekeeper, nice post at 7:23.
Posted by Marshdale on May 8, 2008 at 9:22 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Can anybody who is a Christian please show me in the NEW TESTAMENT where there is anything about marraige between a man and a woman? Can anybody show me where Jesus said you are only allowed to be wed to one of the opposite sex? Just curious. I find it puzzling how many Christians there are who revert to quoting the Old Testament when it is convenient for them. Um, Jesus is part of the NEW TESTAMENT is he not? Was it not part of Jesus' message to abate some of the cruelties in the OLD TESTAMENT? Someone please clue me in. Am I missing the message of Jesus or what?
Posted by MarineGrunt on May 8, 2008 at 9:22 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Could we please, norsegod? "Very grrrr, baby!"
I 2nd freethoughts idea. If your so into getting 'rid of the gay menace' please feel free to post your Name, Address, Church you attend and Phone #.
Funny, they whole heatedly get behind a book written some 2000 yrs ago, by people with something to gain by its spreading, but cannot face the fact of SOMETHING in there face. "love your fellow man", unless he is gay? "Live and let live", unless she has a lover of the same sex? "Practice Forgiveness" unless your sky fairy disapproves?
Talk about pushing a messed up agenda... the christian right is about to piss all over itself to prove, any way possible, that being gay is wrong. They have yet to come up with any argument that is based on fact, other then the great sky voice said it was. But, the great sky voice also like to to allow children in Africa to starve and die from lack of fresh water. Very caring sky fairy you have there...
Posted by MarineGrunt on May 8, 2008 at 9:24 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Cwillyurun... well, thank you for pointing out which one is an idiot!
Posted by Why on May 8, 2008 at 9:24 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I think they need "The Strong Arm" to take their case!
Posted by airbornebigfoot on May 8, 2008 at 9:25 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I better not comment on this couple today,
yesterday RMN pulled my comment.
Lets just say I'm against their alternative lifestyle.
Posted by gr8fuldude on May 8, 2008 at 9:26 a.m. (Suggest removal)
There's a fine line between civil disobedience and narcissistic self-indulgence. Protest all you want, but the county clerk has no ability to change laws. Making a spectacle of yourself and your cause only hurts both and is counterproductive, especially when the voters of Colorado have spoken.
If you are really worried about personal freedoms, you should be more worried about this week's eminent domain decision, in which the McLean-Stevens party in Boulder were awarded the land they grabbed from neighbors.
Posted by BJG on May 8, 2008 at 9:27 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I think the next time a straight person is arrested for anything the headlines should read: "Hetrosexual arrested." Maybe the Rocky should change it's name to The National Enquirer, since it really isn't a viable newspaper with story lines like "Lesbians Arrested." This just panders to the lowest level.
Posted by Cwillyrun1 on May 8, 2008 at 9:28 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Steve, it works both ways. Those spewing venom towards people who disagree with them are on both sides of this issue.
freethought, don't be "chicken", be brave and state your name and zip code. Oh, with communism, these people that are guilty of trespassing would probably not be heard of for several years and they'd be sent into exile in a frozen, desolate place. No need to exaggerate with the communism rant.
Posted by blacksho89 on May 8, 2008 at 9:31 a.m. (Suggest removal)
freethought: I asked yesterday, and you did not answer.
What WAS the clerk supposed to do when these two would not allow the employees to go home at the end of the day? Stick around and make S'Mores with them until they decided to leave?
They were trespassing, they KNEW they were trespassing, and they WANTED to be arrested,
Posted by Cwillyrun1 on May 8, 2008 at 9:31 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Marinegrunt, which one's the idiot? The dark haired lesbian or the blonde haired lesbian? Why would you call either of them an idiot?
Posted by holekeeper on May 8, 2008 at 9:46 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Cwillyrun1 THANK YOU AND MARINEGRUNT wHEN THEY BLOCK ME I AM SURE IT WILL BE SOMETHING LIKE HOLEKEEPERISBACK1!
Posted by MarineGrunt on May 8, 2008 at 9:49 a.m. (Suggest removal)
My bad, cwilly! I made a mistake... I take it back. Neither are, for being gay. They were a bit off in their approach to protesting.
Posted by Marshdale on May 8, 2008 at 9:52 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I still don't see a response to my previous inquiry. All of you NEW TESTAMENT experts can't come up with anything? Dang! I'm waiting patiently for NEW TESTAMENT quotes. Please respond.
Posted by Cwillyrun1 on May 8, 2008 at 10:02 a.m. (Suggest removal)
No problem Marine. Everyone has a view and I respect that.
Posted by nicolec on May 8, 2008 at 10:02 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I do often wonder if the Bible they read at my church was different than the ones some of these so called Christians keep quoting. I don't remember Jesus ever:
1. Asking people to speak for him when discriminating against HIS people
2. Asking that we discriminate against any of HIS people
The quote that stuck with me most was "do unto others..."
This is how you'd treat Jesus?
That is why I no longer consider myself a Christian. I don't want to be associated with people who hide behind religion to spout their hate.
Posted by blacksho89 on May 8, 2008 at 10:09 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Marshdale:
Jesus had no tolerance for those who were "experts of the law", so he did not issue 547 page, footnoted decisions like judges and lawyers do.
See John 1:1 where Jesus is defined as "the Word", meaning He IS the Bible. He is the Old Testament also.
See Genesis 2:24 for a definition of Marriage, Revelation 2:14 for a quote from Jesus on sexual immorality.
You have heard the quotes from Leviticus defining sexual immorality as including homosexual acts.
There you go! Glad I could help.
Posted by freethought on May 8, 2008 at 10:13 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Marshdale, apparantly those that believe the good book have not read it. (Like my mom.) By this thinking, I could believe in Peter Pan just because someone told me it is true. See y'all in Never neverland.
Posted by freethought on May 8, 2008 at 10:21 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Oh, someone has read the good(?) book. What does it say about killing you wife, raping your daughters and slaughtering children and sacrificing animals?
Posted by blacksho89 on May 8, 2008 at 10:27 a.m. (Suggest removal)
It says that you can do it all you want if you want to go to Hell.
Gonna answer my question yet?
Posted by Marshdale on May 8, 2008 at 10:32 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Blacksho89: I just read John 1:1. I don't follow your logic. If he is the word then why is there no mention of him saying anything about the present topic in the NEW TESTAMENT? If he is the Old Testament also then, why does he turn it upside down in the beatitudes. So far all you have given me is OLD TESTAMENT quotes. I'm curious how you can rationalize the hate that is spewed in the Old Testament with the love Jesus preached in the New Testament. I'm still baffled by those of you who live life on narrow focus going down a one way street. At any rate the oldest book of the New Testament I believe was written some 60 years after Jusus' death. Most of what we read is heresay carried down through oral tradition. Why was it so convenient for the orthodox church to eliminate other books from the Bible. Maybe they did not fit their agenda. You think?
Posted by blacksho89 on May 8, 2008 at 10:36 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Really? Off topic, I'll give you that. I was answering someone else's questions, and they really don't have anything to do with the story. But if YOU, a god, can be threatened, abused, or defamed, well......
I guess I don't fear Odin much, then.
Posted by blacksho89 on May 8, 2008 at 10:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Marshdale: I could go on all day with you and you would refuse to change your opinion. So I won't.
If you are a Christian, read and study your Bible. Don't take MY word for it; study it.
If you are INTERESTED in Christianity, see above.
If you want to do your own thing, and don't care what the Bible says, go ahead! I'm not stopping you.
Posted by snowsurfer on May 8, 2008 at 11:01 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Why can't the government stay out of peoples bedrooms and private lives. Let gays and lesbians marry and have the same civil rights as the rest of us. Why do you care if a woman marries a woman or man marries a man? If "God" is the true judge, let him sort it out later.
Posted by Spencer on May 8, 2008 at 11:05 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I am a little surprised by your positon Gr8dude. I know from other posts that you are married to an Asian woman. It would not be real hard to imagine that 50 years ago you and your wife may have had to trespass in order to bring attention to an unjust law prohibiting inter-racial marriage. I don't think that would have been just trying to gain attentio at all.
Posted by Cwillyrun1 on May 8, 2008 at 11:33 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Spencer, nobody HAS to trespass. It's a choice. Me, I'd bring attention directly to the people able to make the change, not to those who have no choice but to follow the law because I want to be self centered in my protest.
Posted by fairness on May 8, 2008 at 11:36 a.m. (Suggest removal)
snowsurfer,
Isn't it funny that these people who push to ban things like gay marriage are the same people who complain about government being a "nanny state" when they do things like banning smoking in public buildings. They want government out of their personal lives but are all for getting government involved in everybody else's lives.
Posted by OhBrother on May 8, 2008 at 11:45 a.m. (Suggest removal)
When I saw the headline I wondered what a carpet cleaning company deems as tresspassing....got cha!
But seriously, them protesting should be no problem. if a law was broken then it would come to this, which it did-pay a fine and it's over . No big deal, they should be free to express themselves peacfuly.
Posted by Heidi on May 8, 2008 at 11:53 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I'm all for less laws, so lets do away with marriage recognized by the state and any associated laws. Then we won't have to worry about any of this!
Posted by gr8fuldude on May 8, 2008 at 12:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Spencer - You are correct. My wife is Asian, and we have had to deal with some discrimination, mostly from my family. What I am saying (maybe not clearly enuf - my bad), is that they are being counterproductive to their cause by causing inconvenience to people who will henceforth think of their cause as synonymous with being a pain in the tail. If they want to change the law, they should lobby their legislators, raise awareness and hold themselves out as positive examples, and as equal to other hetero couples (which is what equal rights is really all about)If you make the message too much about yourself, the message tends to get lost. I think that is what happened when they purposely broke a law that had nothing to do with gay marriage (because niether the county clerk, or the judge in this case can change laws)The footage on the news yesterday sounded too much like they were willingly play the martyr or victim and not enough about equality. I think if you continually hold yourself as a victim, you will never achieve equal status, no?
Similar case in point - Yesterday in NYC, Al Sharpton and company were arrested for blocking traffic during rush hour to protest the recent acquittal of the police in the recent Sean Bell case. While their actions will no doubt raise awareness, I think it will also miss the point they are purporting to make.
Posted by Heidi on May 8, 2008 at 12:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)
gr8fuldude,
Great comments!
Posted by happymike44 on May 8, 2008 at 12:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)
So this is to all the supposed christians put down that book and quit listening to the hate mongers.That would be organised religion,they don't care about you personally.All they care about is selling a agenda of hatred and facism.Then look at nazi germany it started out as a good thing but look at how it ended 22 million jews were exterminated just for being jewish.Not to mention all the gypsies and the other people of color.So I guess that Hitler would have a field day in America now because of the hatred so many speak towards others that they do not like.Take a long hard look at what you are saying.I believe Jesus would be very disturbed by the actions of many who claim to be christians.Plus if you really had a valid point instead of holding that book up and saying this is the truth.There are many truths and no one religion is the answer.Sorry if this upsets you and your belief system,remember give love get love.Just pointing out the karma and how f you give anger and hatred guess what you get in return.Anybody want to answer that question or not.
Posted by Heidi on May 8, 2008 at 12:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)
happymike,
You seem to mean well most of the time, but you constantly complain about how you are treated and tell your stories with such anger, hatred and judgement against those who are not like you. You have made a point several times that homosexuals are nicer that heteros.
Think Karma...
Posted by freethought on May 8, 2008 at 12:42 p.m. (Suggest removal)
and Hitler was a catholic not an atheist...what was I talking about?
Posted by happymike44 on May 8, 2008 at 12:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Dear Heidi
Thank you for writing to me but the point I am making is how people are treating each other and using religion as the basis for this belief. I am far from angry I just want people to know that it is not right to go around treating each other gay or straight like crap.Because in the so called book of religion.No where in my bible does it say to abuse and deny people their rights.So if you have a problem with me standing up for my right as a deaf man.Well then I sorry,but I am entitled to my freedom of speech.My family has been paying for it in the deaths of our people since 1776 till current.So remember your fredom of speech was paid for by many of the military families.So do not degrade us for speaking up and stating we do not believe in opression of any kind.Sorry if this does not fit into the master plan of some people of taking away peoples rights.I will not stand quietly by while someone in a pulpit tries to take away people's rights and then saying god told me to do this.By the way I do not go around bashing people I just refuse to be swayed by religion and the ministers who use scare tactics to get what they want.So heidi dear if you want to give up your rights for these people of religion please do so freely but don't ask for mine I will never give them up for anyone or anybody.Why because they are mine !
Posted by happymike44 on May 8, 2008 at 1:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)
If you do not believe me get a book and look how few jews were left after world war two.My father knows this for a fact since he was there fighting.While many of you people were still not even born yet.By the way the Jewish people were treated this way to gain control over their economic properties.So that war was far more then about cookies and milk.Many people here in the U.S. do not know how close to speaking german we came.Also hitler gassed jews,gypsies and gays also let's not forget the old and mentally handicapped.They were all exterminated to make germany a better stronger nation.Just call me someone who knows the truth.
Posted by rip_vw32 on May 8, 2008 at 1:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)
happymike44: You just don't get it do you? By spouting the things you do, you are proving yourself to be very much alike those on the opposing side that are being closed minded. You are very clearly stating that everyone that doesn't think like you do will come to a bad end (as posted in your response to Heidi above). What makes you better than others? what makes you the one thinking correctly? happymike44, do you understand that the way you are writting back is EXACTLY like those arguing against you? The law is the law is the law... period. And as for getting beat up, mugged, laughed at, picked on.... I have dealt with the same.... Only I am not diabled, not unemployeed, a minority, a female, gay, or anything else you mentioned as reasons that people get singled out for. I am an average white male, who fought for this country, as did every generation of mine going wayyy back before the revouloution. You want special treatment, or equal treatment? because from where I am standing, you're getting equal treatment. The same CRAPPY equal treatment I am getting.... or do you think you've earned to be treated better than everyone else?
Posted by rip_vw32 on May 8, 2008 at 1:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)
And happymike44: My grandfather spilled the same blood in the same mud (always liked that saying). I still have the bayonet from a German soldier and My grandmother still has the SS Officer's pistol that my Grandfather picked up. So as far as knowing the truth, you know about as much as the rest of us.....
Posted by Heidi on May 8, 2008 at 2:13 p.m. (Suggest removal)
rip_vw,
Thanks for reiterating and explaining in more detail what I was trying to say.
happymike,
I do not have a problem with you standing up for your rights, just in the way you do it. You really don't come across as a happy man. I spent 13 years in the military. But I don't feel a need to brag about it or say that I am the reason anyone has any of the freedoms they enjoy. You are right, no one should be swayed by religious nuts trying to use scare tactics. Everyone suffers oppression in some way, but we should not be totally absorbed with that. It is unhealthy.
Posted by Cwillyrun1 on May 8, 2008 at 2:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Less laws Heidi??
LOL, I like you! :)
You make a good point, the government is too intrusive.
Posted by Shaupeen on May 8, 2008 at 2:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I think Jeuden_Frei might be back and amongst us.
Posted by Heidi on May 8, 2008 at 2:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Thanks willy!
That brings to mind the restriction on liquor sales on Sundays being lifted. So many people had the view that it was immoral for people to want to be able to buy alcohol on Sundays and that it was pathetic that the alcoholics needed that. But in actuality, it is limiting amount of control the government has over the store owners. Isn't that what we want and need? To abolish silly laws?
Posted by Cwillyrun1 on May 8, 2008 at 2:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)
rip and Heidi, you both are right. The message is listened to more often if it doesn't come across as a rant or as a victim who endures what just about everyone else endures at some point. The "poor me" type.
Karma is an appropriate phrase.....
Posted by Cwillyrun1 on May 8, 2008 at 2:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Yes.... there's laws like that where they don't make sense. It's about choice and if I choose to want to drink on a Sunday as a spur of the moment thing, I shouldn't be limited to cheap beer if I want something.
I totally agree with you, we need less stupid laws.
Out of curiosity, what branch did you serve in?
Posted by Heidi on May 8, 2008 at 2:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Oh, no, willy, are you trying to make me a target against some AF hater from another branch?
Posted by Heidi on May 8, 2008 at 3:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Did I scare ya off, willy?
C Willy, C Willy run.
Posted by Cwillyrun1 on May 8, 2008 at 3:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)
LMAO.........
No, not at all Heidi. You were in the Air Force? What did you do, if you don't mind?
Sorry, I wasn't at my computer for awhile there.
Posted by Cwillyrun1 on May 8, 2008 at 3:51 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I should've asked if you were at Buckley or not? It's not far from where I live. This may sound funny, but I get a rush when the F-16's take off vertically.
If you were in for 13 years, you must've liked it?
Posted by rip_vw32 on May 8, 2008 at 3:54 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Heidi: there is an Airforce? wow... wonders will never cease....
Posted by Heidi on May 8, 2008 at 3:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Nope, I was not at Buckley, and sad to say, was not a pilot. I started off in a F-16 unit and would have loved a ride in one.
I was in the ANG and worked full time there as a federal civilian, part time military. But I wore my uniform everyday and volunteered for as many active duty assignments that I could. Budget/accounting was my specialty. Boring, huh?
Posted by Heidi on May 8, 2008 at 4 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Here come the remarks.....
Posted by rip_vw32 on May 8, 2008 at 4:13 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Heidi and Willy: You should have seen an F18 take off..... talk about a rush? 0-120 in about 2 seconds.... Then full military power almost straight up... that is a thing of beauty... Though in my opnion Marines make better pilots than Navy... They don't whine as much...
Posted by Heidi on May 8, 2008 at 4:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)
So Rip, who brags the most?
Posted by Cwillyrun1 on May 8, 2008 at 5:45 p.m. (Suggest removal)
That's cool Heidi. I'd love to take a ride in one too. But accounting.... yeah, boring. haha, sorry. But it's not boring if you enjoy it.
What's cool is that you were a part of it. I wasn't, guess when I was younger I wanted to have fun and it wasn't the military. Rip, the F-18's fly over on occasion, but I can't tell if they're Navy or Marines. F-15's do also and those are awesome. If I could fly in anything, that's the one. I work with a former Navy pilot that says Navy pilots are better than AF pilots because they fly off carriers. I tell him the AF has better fighter jets.
I guess we're off subject, but I have one of my yahoo accounts if you wanna continue. 'good1left06'
Later!
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