Insurance headed in wrong direction

Posted by jacka on May 6, 2008 at 6:52 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Brian from Boulder uncovers some of the truth.

Universal healthcare, the taxing of american into socialism.

Posted by no_s____sherlock on May 6, 2008 at 8:22 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I would rather know the real cost of health care services/procedures. The last time I had a major procedure the charges were discounted to the insurance company by 40, 50, 60 percent. I can understand maybe a 25% discount, but much more than that and I have to wonder. Either the charges have no relation to actual costs or the uninsured that pay the full charge are subsidizing the insurance companies.

Posted by Froward69 on May 6, 2008 at 8:23 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Imagine how low insurance would go if indeed their were a government sponsored Health care. with price caps on procedures, and services. forgive all that debt the doctors racked up in medical school.

Then focus upon prevention. like if you do not go and get a checkup once a year then you are rendered ineligible. if our health care focused upon prevention rather than disease management. Along with the removal of greed by doctors, hospitals and HMO's. Health care for all could be attainable.

I once asked my (now former Doctor) why he decided to become a doc. was it to help people or to get wealthy? sadly, He answered the latter. Fair profit is fine, as long as greed is not part of the motivation.

Posted by farmboy on May 6, 2008 at 8:57 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Froward69,
"price caps on procedures, and services", just like price caps on anything else, will do nothing but create shortages of them.

"forgive all that debt the doctors racked up in medical school."
What about others, such as engineers or MBAs who also have student loans? How about all those people who took out mortgages on their homes? Should they have their loans forgiven too?
Even if you don't include these others, what you're asking for would mean that the people who loaned the medical students that money in the first place will be SOL. And that means that they will be unwilling to loan money to future medical students ever again.

"Then focus upon prevention."
Studies have shown that, other than things like childhood vaccinations, preventive care is not cost effective. http://www.ncpa.org/ba/ba188.html

"I once asked my (now former Doctor) why he decided to become a doc. was it to help people or to get wealthy? sadly, He answered the latter."
That's an odd thing to ask a doctor. The questions I ask my doctor are things like how to fix the pain in my shoulder. I don't care what his motives are.

Posted by HolierThanThou on May 6, 2008 at 10:27 a.m. (Suggest removal)

<<"forgive all that debt the doctors racked up in medical school."
What about others, such as engineers or MBAs who also have student loans? How about all those people who took out mortgages on their homes? Should they have their loans forgiven too?
>>

I do believe you're on to something here.

Mass debt forgiveness is a very good idea, so long as we begin with the least economically advantaged first and work our way up the ladder.

This kind of economic adjustment would have the same effect as hitting the reset button on your computer when things get ugly. It clears out garbage and restarts the system fresh.

One of the benefits would be an opportunity to replace a debt-driven economy with one that is more in tune with the American values of earning by work and performance of service to others.

But I'm sure that our national royalty will have a problem with it.

Posted by dilligaf on May 6, 2008 at 10:29 a.m. (Suggest removal)

farmboy:
What is your former Doctor doing now working for an insurance company making millions in bonuses denying claims?

Posted by farmboy on May 6, 2008 at 10:45 a.m. (Suggest removal)

dilligaf,
Huh? I never said he's a former doctor.

Posted by farmboy on May 6, 2008 at 10:54 a.m. (Suggest removal)

HolierThanThou,
That's economically boneheaded, and morally bankrupt.

It would tell people who loaned out all that money that others will enjoy the benefits of it and they will never get that money back. It also tells those who worked hard to paid off their loans that they are chumps.

Posted by HolierThanThou on May 6, 2008 at 12:15 p.m. (Suggest removal)

farmboy,

What you suggest is much worse in terms of moral bankruptcy.

What about hard working Americans whose jobs have been taken away from them? When mass layoffs come down, whose fault is that? It isn't the fault of the people just doing their jobs. You need to look up the chain.

These folks are enticed into debt. They take out mortgages for homes and bank on their future. Then they are cheated out of that future. I see ads on TV for credit cards. I don't see any that tell people that they should be careful because they're about to be financially sucker punched.

I say the loan sharks of America are basically the same lot who put people out of work. Screw them. They're all liars.

Let's use democracy to have a Jubilee and put America back to work and back into decent housing amongst other things that are easy when everyone is paid a fair share of the big pie.

Universal debt forgiveness does no harm to honest people because plenty of new business will come from a public that isn't chained to debt. If they want to feel like chumps that's their problem. They can visit a happy debt-free psychiatrist about it if it's such a bugaboo for them.

Posted by farmboy on May 6, 2008 at 1:56 p.m. (Suggest removal)

HolierThanThou,
"What about hard working Americans whose jobs have been taken away from them?"
They need to find another job. Loan payments are no different an expense than food, transportation, utilities... You have no more right to refuse to make your mortgage payment than you do to refuse to pay for a gallon of milk at the grocery store.

"When mass layoffs come down, whose fault is that?"
Sometimes, it's nobody's fault.

"It isn't the fault of the people just doing their jobs."
It's also not the fault of those who loaned them the money.

"These folks are enticed into debt."
Enticed? Without some kind of a loan program, the vast number of people, especially the poor, could never improve their lot in life. After all, it's not as if they have the money just lying around to pay for a $20,000 car or a $200,000 house cash. As long as they have he ability to pay it back over time, there is no problem. If they lose their jobs, the fix for that is for them to find another one. But in any case, the fix is not to stiff those who loaned them the money.

"Universal debt forgiveness does no harm to honest people"
Of course it does. It steals money from the loan brokers, and it turns those who could have paid that money back into parasites and thieves.

Posted by mytwosense on May 6, 2008 at 5:07 p.m. (Suggest removal)

farmboy: "Without some kind of a loan program, the vast number of people, especially the poor, could never improve their lot in life. After all, it's not as if they have the money just lying around to pay for a $20,000 car or a $200,000 house cash. As long as they have he ability to pay it back over time, there is no problem. If they lose their jobs, the fix for that is for them to find another one. But in any case, the fix is not to stiff those who loaned them the money."

That's right, we have become a nation that heavily relies on debt, including debt to other countries. What would you say if one of those countries jacked up our interest rates just because we are behind on our payments to the UN?

Because that is one of the tactics used by credit lenders today to ordinary Americans - jacking up their interest rate if they fall behind on a payment with a completely different creditor.

Posted by infidel91 on May 6, 2008 at 6:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)

mytwosense:

What would you say if you were one of those creditor countries and the U.S. declared its debt to you to be "forgiven?" What would the U.S. then do when nobody will loan it any more money?

Posted by Froward69 on May 6, 2008 at 11:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)

ok then let me rephrase, farmboy
preference upon the least expensive (most abundant supply) is supposedly what drives the fair market keeping prices low correct?
then the high price of medical care in this country is a result of lack of supply? we do not have long lines at the insureds hospital currently do we? then if care is abundant and no long lines, people aren't banging to get in. Then why is medical care, and thus Insurance to pay for it so expensive?

one word

GREED.

All around from the doc to the hospital and the insurance... ALL of them expect a profit for helping people/society.

I was just using the education loan forgiveness as a reverse example as to why (Docs say it all the time) Docs need a higher pay rate to pay back those loans. thus a contributing factor as to why health care is so expensive. (I know it is bull too...)