KOPEL: Barr, Limbaugh go too far
Radio hosts talk of riots in Denver
By Dave Kopel, Rocky Mountain News (Contact)
Saturday, May 3, 2008
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Rarely does a radio listener hear convergence between the views on Rush Limbaugh's right-wing Excellence in Broadcasting network, and the left-wing Air America network. Unfortunately, they did achieve consensus recently - in favor of riots at this summer's Democratic National Convention in Denver.
Roseanne Barr is Air America's replacement for Randi Rhodes. This Monday Barr told her listeners "we should a bunch of us go there and repeat the Democratic Convention from Chicago. Like, let's just cause a bunch of trouble." She volunteered to use her own money to rent a bus to take troublemakers to Denver.
Although Barr did not explicitly use the word "riot," the implication of a desire for a "repeat" of the riot-scarred 1968 Chicago Convention is straightforward.
On April 23, Rush Limbaugh sang, "I'm dreaming of riots in Denver," which he compared to "dreaming of a white Christmas." A person "dreaming of a white Christmas" is not trying to cause snowfall on December 25, but he is hoping for it. Likewise, Limbaugh affirmed that was not "inspiring or inciting" riots. He said that he dreamed of convention riots because (as in 1968) they would harm Democratic chances in the election.
On April 24, he affirmed "my desire to see the Democrat convention break down exactly as it did in 1968 in Chicago with Democrats beating up on Democrats in the streets."
Of course the people who are most likely actually to riot in Denver are not Rush's legions of right-wing dittoheads. However, Limbaugh's "Operation Chaos" has urged his listeners to participate in Democratic primaries and caucuses, and even to seek election as delegates to the Democratic convention. Especially in light of Operation Chaos, Limbaugh's remarks created a risk that a few overenthusiastic dittoheads might take it upon themselves to infiltrate the far-left protesters at the convention and act as agents provocateurs. During tense confrontations between angry mobs and the police, a single loud agitator can tip the balance toward violence.
Limbaugh's proffered excuse for his riot dreams and desires was that the Rev. Al Sharpton had already called for riots in Denver if Obama is denied the nomination. Actually, Sharpton had merely said that people like him would be "demonstrating."
Sharpton's audiences do have a record of violence. Speaking at a 1991 funeral of child in Brooklyn who had been accidentally killed by a Jewish driver, Sharpton's oration was followed by four days of riots and mob violence, including homicide, against Jews. Likewise, in 1995, Sharpton gave a hateful, racist speech in Harlem against a Jewish store renter, whom Sharpton called a "white interloper." Later, one of the participants in Sharpton's picketing entered the store and murdered seven people.
Limbaugh also pointed out that former Virginia Gov. Doug Wilder, an Obama supporter, had predicted the consequence of Obama losing in Denver: "chaos at the convention" and "that if you think 1968 was bad, you watch; in 2008 it will be worse."
Even if one reads Sharpton's and Wilder's comments in the worst possible light - as thinly-veiled violent threats by Obama advocates - such a reading does not justify a radio commentator hoping that those violent threats are carried out.
On Friday, April 25, Limbaugh pulled back, stating, "My point probably could have been better made had I said it this way: 'If the Democrats and their allies such as Re-create '68 want to engage in self-destructive behavior, we'll take it.' "
There's a big difference between dreaming and desiring a terrible event (which is what Limbaugh was doing on April 23-24) and merely being ready to take political advantage of such an event (Limbaugh's April 25 version).
I don't doubt Limbaugh's sincere patriotism, but this time, his patriotic vision was obscured by his partisanship. The Founding Fathers warned that political factionalism could undermine Americanism.
The best local coverage of Limbaugh's remarks was on KHOW's afternoon Caplis and Silverman Show. The pair had been sparring for weeks about whether some earlier remarks of Limbaugh's had been pro-riot. But the April 23-24 remarks were so unambiguous that Caplis joined Silverman in declaring Limbaugh's words inappropriate.
After Limbaugh's restatement on April 25, Silverman kept up the criticism, while Caplis, unduly credulous, said that he took Limbaugh at his word about the intent of the April 23-24 comments.
On April 24, Sen. Ken Salazar announced that he was writing to Clear Channel, which syndicates Limbaugh's program, to ask Clear Channel to reprimand Limbaugh for what Salazar called "a clear exhortation that those riots are exactly what he wants to happen." To be consistent, Salazar should send a similar letter to Air America about Roseanne Barr.
Dave Kopel is research director at the Independence Institute, an attorney and author of 10 books. He can be reached at kopeld@RockyMountainNews.com.
Comments
Posted by Mike_In_Hartsel on May 3, 2008 at 7:03 a.m. (Suggest removal)
It's interesting how Kopel turns this into an attack on Limbaugh when the real offenders are Al Sharpton and Doug Wilder. Why didn't Kopel ask the question as to why these Democrats are preparing their base for trouble in Denver and the rest of the country if they don't get their way?
Kopel mentions Rush's words and them immediately dismissed the idea that the dittoheads will be the ones rioting. At this point the more appropriate direction of even commentary would have been to shift to a discussion of Sharpton and Wilder. But Kopel isn't interested in a balanced presentation. He wants, as in the Christmas carol, "Limbaugh roasting on an open fire".
Kopel and the rest will blame Limbaugh when there are riots, not Sharton and Wilder who really started them.
Posted by Froward69 on May 3, 2008 at 7:15 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Spot on Kopel!
rosie AND rush will import provocateurs. rethugs love to rail about Immigrants coming here and causing trouble. but wait, people with riotous intentions are welcome... I am sure they will have a nice stay in city lockup, and I will volunteer my time to look up their party affiliation.
I feel confident that the DPD will not provoke a riot as as what happened in Chicago in '68.
nor will recreate '68.
or Al Sharpton.
if one happens it will be agents from "chaos" (by the way is as silly as the "Get Smart" series.)
Posted by Gene on May 3, 2008 at 9:04 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Just great Kopel,
Riling up the Kool-Aide drinkers.
Posted by HolierThanThou on May 3, 2008 at 9:50 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I'm dreaming of a mob tearing Limbaugh to pieces,
Just like the one that got Mussolini.
It will be in Colorado,
Sometime after tomorrow.
And lots of his fans will die there, too.
I'm dreaming of a revolution,
One that slaughters all the exploiters and their heirs.
It will clean America,
Of all the bad management.
And everyone who's decent will get a big promotion.
I'm dreaming of the people thrown out their homes,
When those pricks are dead they can have them back.
It will be a happy day,
Dancing on mortgage executives' graves.
And if anyone tries that again we hang them straight away.
...
May your days be merry and bright,
As rich conservatives loose sleep starting tonight.
________
Not that I'm advocating mob violence but let's be honest. If the all of the richest 0.5% of Americans who own 38% of everything disappeared tomorrow, they would not be missed. Our lives would be greatly improved. And we outnumber them. So, we're just being stupid putting up with their crap leadership.
Truth is when some executive decides to offshore our jobs or overpay himself by cutting our pay we can use the internet to organize, show up at his house en masse, drag him from his bed, and do some real justice. Then we can all go back to work the next day, have a talk with the accounting department, and resume our lives.
Posted by JohnSWren on May 3, 2008 at 10:35 a.m. (Suggest removal)
What do you think?
Take your turn and tell us tomorrow (Sun, May 4) at Denver Speakers Corner. North Pavillion, Civic Center, 4 p.m. More information and optional RSVP at http://cocacop.meetup.com/2
BYOB
(Bring Your Own (soap)Box)
Posted by greenleaf on May 3, 2008 at 12:07 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I have waded in on this issue several times before.
The one over-riding point I would like to make today, in Denver and in this overheated political season is this: This is our city! Violent acts should not be tolerated, encouraged or looked forward to with glee; not in our Denver! This is where most of us live, work and raise our families.
This isn't a Republican, Democrat, Libertarian, Communist, Fascist. Socialist issue. We are speaking of potential violence, destruction, social unrest,economic impacts and, not the least, embarrassment for our community. The fundamental question is: why would anyone in their right minds tolerate, let alone look for political advantage coming as it would at the hands of anarchists?
My appeal to all reading this is that we tone down the rhetoric and not play into the anarchist's plan. They thrive on disruption and attention, be it positive or negative. They want more than their fair share of the political process. If they succeed in Denver with the Democratic convention this year, it could encourage them to replicate it in another city and at another political opportunity in future years.
If there is a time to set politics aside, it is now in regard to this issue. Republicans, Democrats and independents need to unite to prevent this from happening for the good of our community and to insure the safety of our families and fellow residents.
Forget the talking heads, fanning the flames for their own profit. Think for yourselves!
Posted by Gene on May 3, 2008 at 1:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Just great, Kopel.
Now greenleaf. Don't you have a bar to tend somewhere? If they want the Kool-Aide, let them drink Kool-Aide.
Posted by greenleaf on May 3, 2008 at 2:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Gene,
Usually I understand and appreciate your jokes. This one I don't understand?? ( not the tending bar part but the "Kool-Aide" reference). Have we moved beyond Latifolia neats and I didn't get the memo?
Posted by Gene on May 3, 2008 at 3:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Memo;
Jim Jones the cult leader in Guyana prepared big vats of Kool-Aide which his blind (not literally) followers lined up and drank to commit suicide. That is what the Democrat party is doing (literally) by primary voting and superdelegates and their radical followers and the local Democrats setting up DNC protest rules, etc, etc. etc. . while Republicans just watch.
. . here's to a 'neat' at 1700 hrs. . cheers.
Posted by anderson on May 3, 2008 at 5:15 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Gene: you're still not making any sense.
Hartsel Mike: keep fantasizing about riots and who will start them if it gives meaning to your life.
Posted by greenleaf on May 3, 2008 at 5:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Well hello anderson,
I haven't encountered you in a while. How have you been?
Gene's "neat" comment is a personal joke and sign off that we have, so there really isn't much to understand!
Hope to have more conversations with you.
Take care!
Posted by greenleaf on May 3, 2008 at 5:55 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Gene,
I remember well that sad state of affairs revolving around Jim Jones.
I confess that I don't understand what the Democrats are doing this cycle! I agree that the process hasn't seemed to work very well for them. It would have been better if they could have had just one strong candidate at this late stage so they could muster their forces and get past the complications and distractions that you mentioned.
I missed today at 1700, maybe tomorrow?
Posted by peterpi on May 3, 2008 at 9:52 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Typical, Mike-in-Hartsel, to claim that Limbaugh was all in good fun while Barr is outrageous.
Kopel is conservative/libertarian. He routinely roasts liberals. But he knows idiotic inflammatroy comments when he sees them. That's why he condemned both Barr and Limbaugh.
Kopel understands that both conservatives and liberals can be idiots.
Unlike some conservatives who believe that they are always perfect.
Rush Limbaugh is "dreaming" of riots in Denver. Some of his dittoheads might be quite willing to satisfy him.
Posted by Wright on May 3, 2008 at 10:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)
If there are riots in Denver then the only ones to blame are the ones rioting. Barr and Limbaugh are talk show people. If someone riots then it is his responsibility not anyone else's.
Posted by Lowtaxequalsfreedom on May 4, 2008 at 7:33 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Kopel having listened to and viewed Sharpton many times I understand his tone. When he made remarks about the DNC and protesting he was insinuating trouble. You are going out of your way to gloss over the situation. What about Charlie Brown and Glen Spagnolo on I.T.? I suppose Glen was calling for peace?
Kopel me thinks you listen to Capalis and Silverman to much.
Posted by Gene on May 4, 2008 at 7:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Note to peterpi and the paranoids;
Conservatives don't demonstrate. The other side (your side) does. If anyone will be in the streets, it will not be conservatives. Although I do admit to once attending a bake sale in Fort Collins, Colorado!
Posted by Froward69 on May 4, 2008 at 9:51 a.m. (Suggest removal)
oh gene, your near perfection makes me want to vomit.
Both sides march and protest, if of course they feel passionate enough about whatever subject.
the Right to PEACEFULLY do so is in that thing called our Bill of Rights. It does not just only cover republicans like you. (although you would like to think it does.)
hey Kettle, Your Black!
Posted by Lowtaxequalsfreedom on May 4, 2008 at 10:06 a.m. (Suggest removal)
If these people break the law they are responsible. Nobody else. If citizens do not take responsibility for their own actions we are all f%@#$@! I censored myself.
Is Kopel suggesting the State control our own actions? Is Kopel suggesting the Republican entertainers control our actions? I love Kopel but I think he was low on things to talk about when he picked this topic and this slant.
Posted by peterpi on May 4, 2008 at 8:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Gene,
Froward put it nicely,
You ever been to a pro-life demonstration? Most of those people were conservative. Ever heard of an anti-same sex-marraige demonstration? Most of those people were conservative. An anti-gun-control demo? A demo against taxes?
That's hilarious: Conservatives don't demonstrate. Of course, they do. Next you'll tell me all coservatives are rational and all liberals are emotional. If Rush Limbaugh is rational, humanity is doomed.
Posted by Gene on May 4, 2008 at 8:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Rush Limbaugh is rational.
Posted by Gene on May 4, 2008 at 8:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Sorry peterpi, I couldn't resist that one.
I won't say conservatives never protest, but it is not a common practice as per the left. I can remember the heydays of the 1960's and early 70's and I really don't recall any conservative protests, sit-ins or rallies or demonstrations. There probably were some, but certainly not the the extent of the left's antics. I did, several years ago, attend one at the Colorado State Capitol, and there were only a handful of people, and I honestly cannot even remember what the subject was. All I can remember was the speaker was on a cross-country trip speaking on the subject. Also, Rush Limbaugh is center-right, certainly no extremist, and certainly is rational.
Posted by Spencer on May 5, 2008 at 7:42 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Gene, we all know what the background is for kool-aid drinkers. It has been used to describe those who blindly followed Bush for years. Caplis is a major tool. Worst of the worst in my book. Swarmy is too good of a description.
Posted by Gene on May 5, 2008 at 8:04 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Spencer,
Nice to talk with you. I was asked to explain the Kool-Aide remark. You, obviously know your way around the drink.
Posted by spencerr on May 5, 2008 at 1:56 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Yeah, holier, your dream is a wonderful one. When the .5 percent of people that own 38% of American economic activity pass on all at the same time, the government can take close to half of their assets. Since most of that thirty-eight percent is tied up as capital that is used by businesses who provide millions of American jobs, nobody will miss it when the government takes a large portion of it and redistributes it to the little guy who needs it...except for those of us who liked our jobs.
Wish death on us horrible republicans...because that way the democrats can construct their infallable government-run utopia, and the world can be a better place, nay, a perfect place. The little guy won't have a job anymore, but damn it, the big guy will be dead and/or gone, and well-deserved. It's all worth it. Stick it to the man!
Posted by spencerr on May 5, 2008 at 2:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Peturbi, the difference between conservatives and liberals is that conservatives are optimistic about the present and future and pessimistically realize that they cannot make the world perfect, while liberals are pessimistic about the present and future and optimistically think that they can successfullystrive toward perfection.
Therefore, we are all rational in our own minds.
However, it is the Democrats who appeal to the masses by making emotional promises of redistribution of wealth. And while all the liberal crap that was passed in the past fails miserably, the rational conservative agenda and its followers sit back and say "I told you so."
That being said, it is shallow-minded to call all republicans rational and all democrats purely emotional. There are NRA-types who only care about their own agenda. And there are liberals who are in it only for the power, not really giving a care about the people they just pandered to in order to get elected. I would say that their approach is at least rational, if not genius.
Posted by GetaReal on May 6, 2008 at 6:16 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Hey Kopel,
It's not conservatives who are threatening to riot. A minor point to left wingnuts.
Ever notice that only lefties act like truculent children? Which most of them are.
Posted by titancain on May 8, 2008 at 8:49 p.m. (Suggest removal)
A drug addict spewing hatred? I'm dreaming of rush's next wife having a late term abortion.
Posted by swimoutpassthebreakers on May 9, 2008 at 8:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Rush was simply pointing out that lefty's riot and don't respect the rights of others. He knows that if it happens in Denver the big media elite will have a hard time explaining it away.
Posted by Hazardous_T on May 10, 2008 at 3:58 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Wow. I have to admit to a bit of naivete, It never occured to me that the koolaid was the Jim Jones brand... I always thought it was the Ken Kesey brand...
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