Free-market options finally being aired

Posted by daveloveslinda on March 30, 2008 at 10:36 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I have two questions. How can we excersize our free market system, when our health care is tied to our employers? How do you know that expanded medicare would limit our choices?

Please give a source for your speculations.

Posted by leftside on March 31, 2008 at 7:33 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Mr. Hsieh,

Which candidate is proposing that medicade be expanded? I have read nothing in any of the three plans presented by presidential hopefuls which state that medicade would be expanded.

I would assume from the "Dr." in front of your name that you are educated. I assume further that with your interest in the health insurance crisis that you have read the three plans. Correct? So if no candidate is offering to expand medicade why are you suggesting this as a possible option? Fear tactics?

Posted by farmboy on March 31, 2008 at 8:54 a.m. (Suggest removal)

daveloveslinda,
If you don't like your employer's health insurance plan, you're free to purchase your own somewhere else.

leftside,
You need to look at BO's website again. http://www.barackobama.com/issues/add...
has a section called "Expand Medicaid and SCHIP".

Posted by Eli on March 31, 2008 at 8:55 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Leftside,
"Which candidate is proposing that medicade be expanded?"

From barackobama.com:
Expansion Of Medicaid and SCHIP: Obama will expand eligibility for the Medicaid and SCHIP programs and ensure that these programs continue to serve their critical safety net function.

Posted by p_myers661 on March 31, 2008 at 9:14 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Medicare is already mandatory. I have been on dialysis for three months and received a letter ordering me to make a choice between medicare "gap" insurance to replace my present policy and making Medicare my primary insuror. I was also told that at 30 months my primary insurance would be, no exceptions, Medicare.

Right now I keep hearing, "Medicare won't pay for that." when I have a special IV medication that needs to be added at the dialysis center, to fight an infection or for pre-surgical treatment. My private insurance will pay for it and they pay 100% of the cost of all of them so far. Even so I have had six phone calls demanding that I choose the gap policy for a higher cost than my current policy with worse coverage because the present situation is confusing the dialysis billing system.

Medicare is damaging health care by denying treatments and medications that improve the well being of people and even protect them against complications from things like heart disease and diabetes. I have to fight for oral meds over insulin every time I end up in the hospital. I finally included it in the final directives which are on file with the hospital...no insulin without my express consent on each incident.

Next on the liberal agenda will be the expansion of Medicaid. It is very simple...raise the income level of those covered by the program. If a person making 20K a year is covered, a family making 50K a year is covered....there will be more people on Medicaid and fewer buying their own insurance.

The most important issue is how long we will be tied to our employers' choice of plans without tax relief. It is the only corporate benefit the liberals don't complain about.

Posted by leftside on March 31, 2008 at 10:41 a.m. (Suggest removal)

farmboy and eli, not for the general population boy's. You guy's are infamous at taking things out of context. For the general population Obama has stated his plan will look like the Federal group plan. The difference between Hillary's and his is Hillary states they will allow people to enroll on the federal plan. I believe, since he has not comitted to this on way or the other, that he to will open up the federal plan as well since it is easiest way to implement his program.

Posted by Eli on March 31, 2008 at 10:44 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Leftside,
That is an exact, word for word quote from Obama's website. Nothing was taken out of context.

Posted by Eli on March 31, 2008 at 10:45 a.m. (Suggest removal)

See for yourself here:
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/hea...

Scroll about halfway down.

Posted by leftside on March 31, 2008 at 10:54 a.m. (Suggest removal)

p_myers, I'm sorry you having problems with medicare. I can tell you this, even though I myself am not on medicare, my parents and grandparents were and had many different illness and hospitalizations and never had a problem with medicare. That plus their supplements paid like clock work.

If your read my post to farmboy and eli then you now know that the democratic candidates don't plan on expanding medicade for the general population but rather allowing the majority of Americans to enroll onto the federal plan which will in theroy cost 30-40% less than individual plans run. I do however agree with you and like the fact that they will increase the income level for getting on medicade. I think your exaggerating the amount they will increase it by but an increase is needed.

Posted by leftside on March 31, 2008 at 11:18 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Yes eli, you have taken it out of context and you know you have.

Number 4 in his plan feature states that he will subsidize those who do not qualify for medicade but still can't afford the national plan. Does that sound like he's expanding medicade to the general population?

His expanison for medicade is simply raising the income levels so more people can qualify but he's not proposing expanding medicade to be his national insuarance plan. What he wants to do is keep medicade and SCHIP strong. For which I agree. You can't put the general population on the national plan and forget about the medicade and SCHIP plans. That all he's saying

You have no shame, eli. Sheeeeze.

Posted by SASQUATCH on March 31, 2008 at 11:36 a.m. (Suggest removal)

MONOPOLIES, LIKE SINGLE-PAYER MONOPOLIES, ARE ALWAYS HOSTILE TO THE CONSUMER...and when that consumer is not the payer who can shop a competitive system, spenfd his own money and exercise his own choice that serves his own best interest, you have a cocktail for higher prices, poor service and rationing. And who in their right mind wants to depend on the same crowd who run the post office, run our SS system, run our schools and are responsible for maintaining our roads and bridges for their health care?

Americans deserve choice in a competitive system; the alternative represents global failure.

Posted by Eli on March 31, 2008 at 11:41 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Leftside,
Did you look at the website? What did I take out of context. I copied that section exactly as it appears on the site. You're pointing to other parts of his healthcare plan claiming that I took the quote out of context. It's not like it was taken out of a paragraph or something that provides a different context. The website says "expansion of medicaid and SCHIP" in bold type with the next sentence I quoted following it, in a layout similar to a bullet point list. I copied the sentence word for word. That is the only thing it says under that particular section.
Nothing was taken out of context. You are flat out lying.

Posted by Eli on March 31, 2008 at 11:45 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I should have looked at the site again before my last post. It's not "similar" to a bullet point list, it IS a bullet point list.
I copied the entire bullet point on "expansion of medicaid and SCHIP", and leftside says I took it out of context. A complete lie.

Posted by farmboy on March 31, 2008 at 11:47 a.m. (Suggest removal)

leftside,
You're the one who said there'd be *no* expansion of Medicaid. Eli and I only cited where that expansion was taking place, and you have the nerve to point fingers at us?

Furthermore, expanding something implies it has someplace to grow into. If Medicaid is expanded, it would have nowhere to grow except into the general population. And the very fact that you think the income level should be increased to qualify for it proves that even you know that to be true.

Posted by leftside on March 31, 2008 at 1:15 p.m. (Suggest removal)

farmboy, still taking things out of context to prove your point. It a waste on time dealing you. The conversation is about the National Health Care plan and Hsieh stating exansion of medicade as on of the options. It's false farmboy, Obama wanting to strength medicaid and SCHIP has nothing to do with covering the mass or the majority. Keep playing the gotcha game which I've told you past doesn't help your cause.

Posted by leftside on March 31, 2008 at 1:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Go ahead eli, post it.

Posted by Eli on March 31, 2008 at 4:42 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"Go ahead eli, post it"
You lost me there, leftside.

Posted by paulhsiehmd on March 31, 2008 at 7:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)

To answer an earlier question regarding Medicaid expansion, this has definitely been proposed at the state level.

Governor Ritter has asked for more money to "enrich the benefits available to children on Medicaid and the state children's health program".

Reference: "More for kids' health care asked", 2/15/2008:
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news...

The 208 Commission has also recommended that the state legislature consider, "Expanding and reforming eligibility for Medicaid and the state's Child Health Plan Plus."

Reference: "Road map for health reform", 1/31/2008:
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news...

Posted by leftside on March 31, 2008 at 8:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Eli, your in a continual state of lost either intentionally or just by virtue of being lost.

Paul, we aren't talking at this point about the state's plan were discussing Obama's plan. The majority of people would be covered either under their present carrier or under the national plan which will be similar to the plan federal employees are covered under. Hillary is proposing opening up the Fed plan which I think Obama will do since, as I stated before, it will be easier to implement. Medicaid and SCHIP will be expanded only in a minor way and in fact Obama's plan will subsidize those who can't afford the national plan premium and make to much to qualify for medicaid. That right there tells you that even though he wants raise the eligibility for medicaid it will be minor since there will still be people out there that will struggle to pay the national premium. The expansion of Medicaid is but a minor thing that eli and farmboy are trying to turn into a major part of his plan. It is not. The vast majority of citizens would either stay where they are at or go on the national plan.

I believe the state will opt out of there plan should Obama be elected and his successful in implementing his plan. Then you wouldn't have anything to worry about regarding the states handling of medicaid. So vote for Obama or Hillary.

Posted by farmboy on March 31, 2008 at 8:52 p.m. (Suggest removal)

leftside,
You've got this annoying habit of setting up nice tidy straw men as arguments.

All Eli and I did was point to BO's plan that shows an expansion of Medicaid, when you said there was no expansion of it. You then altered your claim with the qualifier "general population", as if that changes anything, and then accused us of taking it out of context.

Sheesh.

Posted by farmboy on March 31, 2008 at 9:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)

leftside,
Re: your 8:24 p.m.

Again, another straw man. You're the one who made a big deal out of it with your post at 7:33 a.m. Eli and I came in later.

Posted by leftside on March 31, 2008 at 11:07 p.m. (Suggest removal)

farmboy, what you mean to say is that you find it annoying when I prove you wrong and show your twist and spin to be just that. For example, focusing on the minor medicaid portion of his proposal and ignoring the major part of the plan that will cover the majority of Americans. And why? To make it look "socialistic". I know how you guys operate and I'll call you on it everytime. Besides I don't think you even know what a "strawman" arguement is but when you start flinging the word around I know I've caught you being decietful.

Posted by Eli on April 1, 2008 at 8:33 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Leftside,
I see. The best rebuttal you can offer rather than clarifying your post is to throw around insults. In that case there's no point in wasting any more time with you, is there?

Posted by farmboy on April 2, 2008 at 12:37 a.m. (Suggest removal)

leftside,
You're the one who either doesn't understand what a straw man argument is, or doesn't care.

In either case, you're a waste of time.

Such a pity.