Union pee-vish over portable urinal bags for Qwest field crews
Use saves time driving to loo; workers see it as too much oversight
By Jeff Smith, Rocky Mountain News (Contact)
Published March 20, 2008 at 12:05 a.m.
A Qwest supervisor in southwestern Colorado took his concerns over extended bathroom breaks to an uncomfortable level, union officials charge.
The manager, they claim, recently gave disposable urinal bags to about 25 male field technicians with the message: When you have to go, don't waste time searching for a public bathroom.
"We deal with a lot of silliness in corporate America, but you've got to admit, it takes the freakin' cake," said Reed Roberts, an administrative director at the Communications Workers of America District 7.
Qwest spokeswoman Jennifer Barton said, "There's no policy whatsoever" requiring field technicians to use the bags.
"They are there for convenience, and they are there because employees asked for them," she said.
Barton said the union hasn't filed a grievance and that she can't speak to the particulars of the alleged incident in the Montrose area.
Roberts said he complained to Qwest's corporate labor relations department about the issue. Neither Qwest nor the CWA disclosed the name of the supervisor in question.
Qwest, like many companies with workers in the field, has for years offered portable urinal bags as an option. At least one of the bags used is called "Brief Relief," made by San Diego-based American Innotek.
In Qwest's field technician orientation meetings, Roberts said, the company has harped on time wasted by returning to the garage or central office for bathroom breaks.
In addition, Roberts said, the issue is associated with Qwest increasingly using GPS (global positioning systems) to track the whereabouts and productivity of its workers at all times.
Roberts said that as far as he can tell, a "first-level manager took it upon himself to cut down on the time technicians spend to go to the bathroom."
Women aren't being required to use the bags, according to a union employee familiar with the matter.
Brief Relief is described on the company's Web site as a "20-ounce plastic pouch with a one-way valve and funnel that leads liquid waste to a holding compartment filled with a proprietary blend of powdered enzymes, polymers and deodorizers."
It can save time and "boost morale," according to the Web site.
Ryan Hiott, one of American Innotek's regional directors, confirmed Qwest is a customer along with other telephone companies, electric utilities, municipal public works departments and various industrial companies. He said the Federal Emergency Management Agency ordered 2.5 million bags after Hurricane Katrina.
Hiott said the product often makes sense for crews working underground or in the field for an extended period of time.
"A lot of times it doesn't make sense to pack up a truck and drive to a McDonald's just to find a restroom," Hiott said.
He said many companies don't want employees to use customers' bathrooms because of exposure to potential litigation.
Rob Douglas, a Colorado privacy consultant, said he can see companies making the portable bags available but that management should respect employees who are concerned about using them. One employee concern raised to the union was the possibility of being spotted using the bag on the side of a road and being charged with public indecency.
"(Another) key point is that they are used in conjunction with GPS, and companies are monitoring whenever field techs go outside the work area to get to a restroom facility," Douglas said. "It's part of a larger issue where management is trying to get every ounce of productivity (from a worker)."
Hiott said companies that have tried to require their employees to use the bags have butted heads with their unions. He said he knows of companies that have requested their workers to keep a couple "in the glove box."
Ford Motor Co. in 2005 reportedly started tracking bathroom breaks in efforts to increase productivity. Barton said there's been no such effort at Qwest.
"We don't conduct studies on bathroom breaks," she said.
smithje@RockyMountainNews.com or 303-954-5155
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March 20, 2008
12:04 a.m.
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arby writes:
The bags were issued to guys that work outside. Come on, give me a break. Everybody knows the guys just open the door of the truck stand beside it and pee on the ground. The women have a different option and less opportunity so maybe they have to find a bathroom. So quit buying the bags and give everyone that can pee on the ground 15 minutes off each day. The girls will figure it out. Problem solved. And the dumbass CWA can go look for another telephoney problem to complain about.
March 20, 2008
7:20 a.m.
Suggest removal
DahmersCookbook writes:
"Qwest = Giant Pee-satchel"
-J.Dahmer-
March 20, 2008
7:30 a.m.
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Matadore writes:
Yeah, The workers (the Union) should just hold it or better still learn to talk it out like MGMT.
Unions sure do suck. I hate having Benefits and vacations and sick leave. I hate having someone to represent me when my boss gets a wild hair up his azz and wants to fire me and can't because he doesn't have Just Cause. You know what I really hate, is the retirement,this Defined Lifetime Benefit that is paid for by the company really sucks. I would rather have my 401K plan where I can put my hard earned wages toward my retirement myself. After all I won't need any money after 74 yrs of age when my 401k is gone. I can't wait to be a greeter at Walmart. Yeah Unions sure do Suck.
March 20, 2008
7:45 a.m.
Suggest removal
Marshdale writes:
Earl, you're a real jerk. Get a life. In case you don't know it moral has as much to with productivity as anything else. Give the guys a break. I work two full time jobs Earl. One is in the field. When I have to go I have to go. If I'm caught urinating in public I get fired. So what differrence does it make if I'm standing on the side of the road with a bag in my hand or just letting it hit the ground. It's still indecent exposure. So by spending a little time finding a bathroom I can save the company a hell of a lot of money paying for court costs associated with an indecent exposure ticket I got because the company policy sucks. I suppose you would like to register as a sex offender. Thats what you have to do when you get an indecent exposure ticket. Get real Earl
March 20, 2008
7:49 a.m.
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psu96 writes:
hajk;
register as a sex offender, talk about exaggeration.
March 20, 2008
8:03 a.m.
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DahmersCookbook writes:
All indecent-exposure charges lead to registering as A sex offender. If your pee-pee is out of your pants and not in A bathroom you are going through the same 'Treatment' as A baby-raper who traverses the globe feeding on small children.
-Tom Pals-
March 20, 2008
8:12 a.m.
Suggest removal
ham writes:
Where's all the ECO-FREAKS on this? Seems to me a 4-mil plastic bag filled with urine is more of a sanitary and disposal problem than just peeing on the ground or finding a bathroom. What about the person who's emptying the trash, and one of those urinal bags breaks or tears open on them? But then I suppose it's no more gross than a plastic sack filled with chicken guts......
March 20, 2008
8:24 a.m.
Suggest removal
jacka writes:
We regularly piss in public - jammed up in the car or truck - you gotta go, there is only one choice.
Most of our pissing is done along the freeway, my biggest concern is a car or truck hitting my pulled over vehicle.
Our kids piss in public too, usually in parking lots. Better they piss in a parking lot then in their pants. Think of the emotional damage to a child in their formative years, not to mention the wet car.
Sometimes the wife pisses in public too, if we have a napkin or tishue in the car.
I have even begun training the kids to piss in public - our training is in the backyard and has resulted in effrective roadside pissing.
They are proud to piss in public, I am proud to piss in public. Pissing in public helps the environment and builds emotional strength.
March 20, 2008
8:25 a.m.
Suggest removal
DahmersCookbook writes:
ham, pee-pee balloon fight?
March 20, 2008
8:40 a.m.
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Fireball writes:
Where can I find these bags? As I get older, it seems that I need to pee all the time, in the car, while flying gliders for hours at a time. Could save me time and a great deal of discomfort.
March 20, 2008
8:51 a.m.
Suggest removal
Jojowalk writes:
Unions do suck. They protect dead weight and curb enthusiasm. I don't need a union to keep my employed! I rely on my skills and if my boss treats me like crap, I go find another job based on my skills. Not based on how long I have been in the union! I worked at UAL for 10 years and watched unions drag that company down! Unions are an antiquated idea that are no longer needed. Wonder how much US cars would cost without all of those unions. And I'm sure there's plenty of unemployed US citizens who would jump at the chance for working those union-less jobs. Just try it!
March 20, 2008
9:20 a.m.
Suggest removal
Scott writes:
I agree with Jojowalk, however with idiot bosses like this Qwest fool the unions will hang in there. Supplying the whiz bags is a good idea, having a supervisor go overboard on their use, bad idea.
My youngest uncle wintered over in Antarctica back in 1967. He told us that the lowest rated sailor's (non-rates) job was to change out the holding bags on the camper stools (no running water to flush with). The "contents" of the bags were frozen rock solid, hence the non-rates would end up having poop-bag fights. Entertainment is where you find it.
Scott
March 20, 2008
9:27 a.m.
Suggest removal
Roxie writes:
My husband works for a cable company and has GPS to. Only
difference is--they get bathroom breaks. Huhhh...who would
have thought of something so simple?
March 20, 2008
9:28 a.m.
Suggest removal
OpenYourEyes writes:
I will pay anyone $1000 if you can show me a union worker who is thoughtful, enthusiastic, energetic and creative in the workplace after more than 3 years on the job.
Companies that have to deal with unions, and the unions themselves, encourage mediocrity. Both the company and the union build-up and perpetuate the antagonism between management and employee to justify their existences. Doesn't everyone know this? Hello, were you sleeping in your 10th grade poly-sci class when discussing workforce strategies?
And for you posters that think all you "great" benefits and security come from your union daddy, fine, it takes all kinds to make the world go around- including the dumb types that slept in class...
March 20, 2008
9:32 a.m.
Suggest removal
psu96 writes:
Earl,
it wasnt the union saying anything about "trying to get every ounce out of the worker" nice try though.
March 20, 2008
10:03 a.m.
Suggest removal
dawnmarie01 writes:
Gross!
March 20, 2008
10:07 a.m.
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Sally writes:
Wow! where have all you union-haters been hiding. I agree that the Unions are not completely responsible for good wages and benefits, but we would certainly compare to Mexico and other 3rd world countries without them. This apprears to be another tactic of a large corp to de-humanize its workers. This is probably only one of many tactics used to accomplish this. I wonder how many of Qwest's managers are using these "relief bags"???
March 20, 2008
10:19 a.m.
Suggest removal
jce44 writes:
I'm retired now, but 35 years ago, as a Tech in both Installation and Construction, I can tell you that restroom locations are hard to find. It was my biggest inconvenience, as a woman, especially in Construction, when you're set up at a job site, you just can't break down and leave. I've used an empty (large) paper coffee cup in the cab of the truck on a few occasions. The guys just opened the truck and bin doors, or walked down an open trench and wizzed on the ground...
As a manager later on, the subject rarely came up. My crew had too many other reasons to be in the coffee shop? Some, not all, had the audacity to return my page from their extended breakfast break, with their cell phone at the table with cups and spoons "tinkling" in the backround! And they wondered why I was PO'd that our customer was waiting for them to show up at a work site at 9AM? (we started at 7, but it always took these guys an hour to leave the yard?) Some thought it was their God given right to stop for breakfast every day. Bad habits that back in the 70's & 80's, we would have NEVER gotten away with.
The Union has lost much respect with me. It serves little purpose other than to hinder a company's ability to fire folks who won't work, and coddle or protect them.
The article is interesting, but doesn't BEGIN to talk about the real problems.
March 20, 2008
10:25 a.m.
Suggest removal
psu96 writes:
you turds...you dont have to register as a sex offender if caught peeing in public.
March 20, 2008
10:52 a.m.
Suggest removal
O_TRAIN writes:
All this talk about # one - what about # two?
does this company make a "deuce-bag"?
March 20, 2008
10:55 a.m.
Suggest removal
Theoldguy writes:
I used those bags for years and often times would do a "double pee" to fill them to maximum size. It was amazing how they would explode when thrown out of the moving van and hit a large highway sign. The jell compound, now a light yellow color, would lazily run down the sign. Yeah, CDOT guys, that was me. I gained much skill with my drive-by piss bombs.
Jeff, the pouches were asked for by employees. The white trucks, at least the one I drove, would take on a yellowish cast during the winter from the blown back urine thrown out the truck window via full coffee cup. I guess you could say that I contributed to the ambiance of Commerce City and East Denver.
March 20, 2008
11:02 a.m.
Suggest removal
AWM writes:
What if they have to drop a Duce?
March 20, 2008
11:04 a.m.
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wow writes:
Oldguy-
Eeeewwww. That was you?
LOL- Glad I'm not the only one who saw the humor in this story.
The bathroom breaks help explain why the cable/phone/electic guy needs a four hour window.
March 20, 2008
11:22 a.m.
Suggest removal
Moongirl writes:
As a matter of fact you can be convicted of a sex crime for urinating in public. It happened to my husband. He had to do one year of sex offense classes and barely escaped registering as an offender. As for the guy who wants to see a union employee of more than 3 years who is still thoughful, energetic, creative and enthusiastic, I'll take my $1,000 in large bills please. I have been union for more than 13 years and my non union manager will tell you I am all of these things and more. The union is good and bad. On more than one occasion it has saved my well paying great benefits job. Although it has protected coworkers who do not work. I dont think that is a union issue but I do question the morals and work ethics of the lazy employee!!!
March 20, 2008
11:30 a.m.
Suggest removal
jacka writes:
Hey State of Colorado? Will the Union be using this piss bag issue, more state pension contributions, costly new work rules and other stunts as negotiation items with your fearless leader Pro Union Ritter?
On the sex offender issue. Back in the day my brother was caught pissing in public, he gave the cops my ID (I given him to get into the bars). I wound-up getting the ticket for public pissing. No sex offender registration though. That angle is an unfounded claim. PS I think it was pre-Ritter DA days and no plea bargin was to be had.
Inflame the masses, typical UNION BS. Show of hands for anyone who has not pissed in public.
Hey Ritter, you ready to deal with this kind of crap or will you give employees the flexible work rules needed to take hour long breakfasts on the job?
March 20, 2008
11:35 a.m.
Suggest removal
OpenYourEyes writes:
Sounds like the true problem is with the first line supervisor. Qworst is currently hiring first levels from outside the telecomm industry in order to breathe new life into their old ways. Unfortunately, once they are confronted with their worth as a manager being determined by their performance numbers, they go combative and start thinking the only way they have to up productivity is by confrontation. They may be hiring first levels from outside the industry, but these supervisors are scared to death of the entrenched systems of discipline and training available to them by long-time Qworst Management above the chain-of-command. So really the story isn't about the urinal bags, but more about the incessant productivity pressure from the company onto the staff. It doesn't matter where the first-line came from, Qworst's methods of dealing with the worker and the union is to be the aggressor. The union responds to any issues raised with it's own aggression and you get frustrated and demeaned workers who take long breaks and micro-managing managers all under the banner of the Spirit of Service.
Qwaint, isn't it?
March 20, 2008
11:54 a.m.
Suggest removal
Theoldguy writes:
Sally
Qwest managers do use the relief bags. As tea bags.
jce44
I remember when the Boulder crew revolted.
AWM
A Deuce? One day I had a Big Gulp and drove south on Buckley Road from 96th. To make along story short I barely had enough time to make it to the abandoned trailer park south of 64th. and dig a quick hole. My underwear is still buried there.
As you folks can see(?) all is not well at Qwest and other utility companies. Outside jobs are sometimes not what they are cracked up(???) to be. The freedom from being cooped up inside has its benefits, but also consider when you're daydreaming at your desk and some guy is taking a leak behind a bush he's not thinking about upsetting you. So, please be considerate and don't call the cops.
When nature calls it isn't like a Jim Carey movie.
March 20, 2008
12:20 p.m.
Suggest removal
psu96 writes:
moongirl,
come clean, your huby was going at it with the pee bags again?
March 20, 2008
12:27 p.m.
Suggest removal
steve00 writes:
I don't think they have unions in China. I think the Chinese get the privilege of working in a factory making poisoned toys for 12 hours a day. I believe they're get a whole a dime a day for that, too! I don't think they have child labor laws, either, so the 9 year olds might getting the same thing. I believe it used to be like that here, too, in the late 19th century when labor laws and unions first started. Back when it took an act of congress to get railroad company's to install air brakes, instead of having brakemen risk, and lose, their lives crawling on the top moving train cars to turn brake wheels. When 12 year olds used to work in factory's, or coal mines, for 12 hours a day. Yeah, unions suck, but the aholes are still out there that would take advantage of a migrant worker, or a 12 year old, or anybody desperate enough. The aholes that, say, think its a good idea to make a guy use a pee bag instead of letting the guy decide for himself. It always starts with aholes like that. So if the union will stand up against guy's like that, then more power to 'em. At the end of the day, the union keeps managment honest, and vice versa. Unfortunatly, the if the aholes can't get away with it here, then they just out source it to China. Now if the union's could do something about that......
March 20, 2008
1:15 p.m.
Suggest removal
Moongirl writes:
Wow PSU96 Are you sure it isn't POS96?? Can't dassle with your intelect??
March 20, 2008
2:10 p.m.
Suggest removal
timeandagain writes:
Moongirl - it is your "thoughful, energetic, creative and enthusiastic" attitude that has saved your job previously, not your union. You should give yourself more credit (and your union less).
March 20, 2008
2:35 p.m.
Suggest removal
Roxie writes:
Sally,
I'm not a union hater. Not everyone is a union
hater. I actually like and believe in it. I worked
for the union before and not only was I granted a
job with security but I was paid higher wages. Ok, so
they took out what..24 bucks a month in union dues?
So what-at least I had job security and thats more than
alot of people have of today. This company voted the union
out after a few years. Let the games begin. You should have
seen how many people got fired over silly little things.
March 20, 2008
2:42 p.m.
Suggest removal
Roxie writes:
I'm surprised they dont make these guys
wear a catheder.
March 20, 2008
3:27 p.m.
Suggest removal
junglegymco writes:
Unions - The people who brought you the weekend.
March 20, 2008
4:56 p.m.
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mkdenver1 writes:
I was a delivery driver (non-union) for a local water company for a year and there were many times when I would be caught without a restroom within easy, or practical, distance. This was especially an issue in the mountains.
But, I didn't squeal about it because I either held it (as a punishment to myself for not going earlier when I actually had the opportunity) or used a tree in a subtle location. Typically, I held it until I did get to an office building or a gas station. Yeah, it sucked, but what other option was there that didn't require a cop (or some whiny neighbor, or worse yet the customer) seeing I was too lazy to find a real urinal?
But these guys are going WAY too far. Most delivery, or field techs, do not just drop trou and use the ground especially next to a busy road and Qwest needs to realize that if a field tech needs to go, they need to friggin let them go and not waste the company's money on urinal bags.
I hate unions with a passion, but I can see where they might whine about this. What does Qwest think this is? Elementary school where you need special permission to take a pee?
March 20, 2008
5:20 p.m.
Suggest removal
frontpage writes:
I'm anti union, especially with outfits like the CWA . ever listen to them. Really, I know a woman in her fifties and has been smoking since she was 18, and she thinks Qwest owes her everything including full medical coverage for her oxygen. Oh yeah, she still smoke and works(attends) 40 weeks a year ( she has the other 12off for vacation and sick pay. Yes she makes sure she uses all her sick pay every year. takes advantage of "non essential personal not reporting to work on snow days. takes the whole day off to vote. Get the picture? thats what the CWA represent to me.
On the other side. this Qwest manager is really nuts, I mean, really/
also, the whole issue of an employer having to monitor their workers with crap like gps and stuff. Hey, it can be good if it can measure productivity. but a Qwest worker being productive? come on!that is calculable.
time for me to stop. but why is the unions that have the stupidest issues are all in a regulated industry, airlines, telecos, govt? You just say "HMMM?"
March 20, 2008
9:54 p.m.
Suggest removal
jacka writes:
What about crappin - what is the policy on #2, dukee, pushing loaf, cow pies, cowplop, crap, dung, feces, fertilizer, guano, manure, meadow muffin, night soil, ordure, poop?
Does the management provide wet wipes and recommend use of some other named disposable plastic container that you can promote? What does Ryan Hiott, one of American Innotek's regional directors, have to say about this strategic market niche?
Come on Jeff Smith, show some investigative moxie. The people want to know 'bout procedures for the meadow muffin process.
March 21, 2008
4:18 p.m.
Suggest removal
Jim writes:
What ever happened to "The world is your urinal?"
March 21, 2008
5:04 p.m.
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Denver_Conservative writes:
Its neither sanitary, and I suspect not legal, to dispose of body fluids in this manner.
March 22, 2008
12:51 a.m.
Suggest removal
jlj writes:
Qwest sucks!!! Even before Joe Nachio they have had the reputation as the evil empire of Denver. This is an insane policy that discriminates against males. I read of a similar situation back east with Nissan in which they did not want to let their employees take bathroom breaks and required them to wear adult diapers instead. The employees sued and won. This kind of stuff makes employees hate their employer and assist in creating an entitled attitude amongst workers because of all they have to put up with. You would think companies would catch a clue that this kind of stuff just damages their relationship with their employees and hurts their reputation with the public.
April 6, 2008
6:08 p.m.
Suggest removal
heyward writes:
Such money saving ideas are okayed by multimillion dollar executives playing golf while thinking about having sex with their secretary.
April 6, 2008
6:32 p.m.
Suggest removal
heyward writes:
You don't like unions? Then give up your 40 hour work week, health benefits, dental benefits, retirement, safe working conditions, redress onerous business managers, minimum wage, a living wage, your house, your car, your clothes, kids college. Do you remember when sweat shops were the rule rather than the exception? Don't kid yourself. Even if you aren't in a union you benefit from unions.