Ka-ching! fills every chair at Manual for CSAP tests
Principal tolerates cash payout to ensure attendance
By Nancy Mitchell, Rocky Mountain News (Contact)
Published March 13, 2008 at 9:04 p.m.
Updated March 14, 2008 at 1:50 p.m.
A plan to pay Manual High School students to take state tests this week has paid off - with 100 percent attendance.
Manual Principal Rob Stein is hardly the first metro-area educator to use enticements to get students to take part in the Colorado Student Assessment Program.
Other schools - particularly high schools - have used movie passes, fast-food certificates and chances to win raffles with prizes such as televisions and iPods.
Stein and his staff went the more direct route of cold, hard cash. For each test taken, $5. For good behavior, such as arriving on time, add another $1. Private donors will pay the bill.
With nine tests over the past three days, Tuesday through Thursday, that equals about $50 per student.
"I don't believe in it, but it works," Stein said Thursday.
The Manual alum with a doctorate from Harvard took over the struggling school in north-central Denver last fall, after eight years spent running the prestigious and private Graland Country Day School.
"The reason why I think I was willing to make the exception is there's no benefit to the kids in the CSAP," Stein said. "They don't learn from it, it's not intrinsically motivating, they don't get results in a timely way. There's just no benefit to them."
The CSAP exams are given annually to students in grades three through 10 in reading, writing, math and science.
Test results are used to rate schools, but they don't count for individual student grades or graduation.
"It's simply a chore they have to do that's unpleasant," Stein said. "I don't think paying them to do an unpleasant chore is the same thing as paying them to learn."
Students also will be rewarded if they perform better than expected, based on past test performance, when CSAP results are returned this August.
"We wanted kids not just to be present but to try," the principal said.
Of Manual's 160 students - all ninth-graders - only a student who ran away from home a month ago did not take any tests. Another student must make up two of the nine tests given.
Otherwise, attendance was perfect.
In spring 2006, the last time Manual students took the exams, absence rates ranged from zero to 15 percent on tests. DPS leaders shuttered the poorly performing school in 2006-07 to plan its current reform.
"Having 100 percent attendance is tremendous," said DPS Superintendent Michael Bennet, who heard about the plan on Thursday morning.
"I do think we have to look at all kinds of incentives and disincentives to get the behavior we all want," he said. "Whether it's appropriate for all schools, I don't know the answer to that."
Stein said the school also had other strategies, including collecting student cell phone numbers and calling those who were running late.
Teachers also emphasized that "we really want to rally as a community."
But the money definitely helped. Altogether, he said private donors can expect to pay out about $8,000. Students will be paid next week.
"It's not part of my educational philosophy," said Stein, who believes learning should be intrinsically motivated.
But, he added, "I'm obligated to go with the data on this one. One thing we've learned is, it works."
mitchelln@RockyMountainNews.com or 303-954-5245. To read more about the Manual plan, go to ednewscolorado.org.
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March 14, 2008
5:04 a.m.
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vudumom writes:
This is wrong on so many levels.
One note on Graland,the so called private and prestigious school.
When I was a nanny and the parents I worked for were looking for a private school for their children,one was getting ready to attend kindergarten,the other 2 years behind. I went with them on every school interview and was part of the decision making process. We interviewed many schools,Graland was 2 blocks from their home.You would think that would be a good choice being so prestigious and close,(money was not a factor).This was the worst of the schools.While sitting in on a kindergarten get together to allow the potential kindergarteners to check out the classroom,there was a man who talked with us and went on about the school,yada,yada,yada.What struck us as weird was he mostly went on about how much money they wanted each household to donate or fundraise for the school.He was interested more in what the parents could bring to the school in the way of raising funds and who they knew.We thought this was the strangest of all the interviews.The parents had also heard through different people that Graland looked good on paper but when the kids got into about 4th grade there were alot of kids that needed tutoring because the curriculum was not that great.In fact the next door neighbors had heard the same thing and put their children in Graland ,only to have to pull them out at about 4th grade and put them in a better school.A Cherry Creek public school.
We ended up choosing St.Anne's Episcopal Scool and all their children go there and are doing very well.
March 14, 2008
6:46 a.m.
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BirdonaWire writes:
What a joke!!!! We are paying kids to go to school and take this test. I figure the state owes me some money from my school days. What a bunch of coddling crap!
March 14, 2008
7:20 a.m.
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chief writes:
If you have to pay the kids to take the test, there seems to be a problem. I don't know, I want $100 to take the test.
March 14, 2008
7:43 a.m.
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stella writes:
There is a problem...with the test. Why does it take 6 hours of testing to determine if a kid can read or write? 3 hours of math tests that are not computation-only tests but rather language-heavy story problems. By the end of the 2-week testing period the kids are drained and exhausted. And really for what? They will have no clue how they did until next Fall. And by then, who cares? They don't get to go over the test and see how to correctly answer questions they missed. There is no immediate feedback that pertains to their learning. Having been a proctor for this round of CSAPs, I think that we need to come up with a better way to test kids' knowledge. Otherwise it is just a largely futile exercise that wastes a ton of time.
March 14, 2008
7:56 a.m.
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samsmargolis writes:
Wonder if this creates an emloyer-employee relationship if the kids are being paid for their time and work? If so, wonder if one of the kids could "accidentally" fall out of their chair and injure themselves, file a worker's comp claim, hire that blob Frank Azar and sue the school district? Is the school district complaint with all child labor laws?
March 14, 2008
7:58 a.m.
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vudumom writes:
My daughter has 9 days of testing.Spread over 3 weeks,morning and afternoon.She is stressed out.They put so much pressure on these kids it's crazy.They threaten them in a way if they miss a test. They are constantly reminded that they cannot be sick,they must eat healthy,they must get enough sleep at night.I have recieve no less than 5 notices before CSAPS and during telling parents what they must do to "help" their children with the tests.The curriculum has been centered around these tests for months.The emphasis on test taking skills.Now I find out yesterday that all 5 th graders have to complete a science experiment with all the visuals,data and how it is done.Due right after spring break.We were told they could do it during spring break.They still have next week with 3 more days of CSAPS morning and afternoon,then spring break.
They get months of pre-testing for CSAPS.Then they get 3 weeks of CSAP testing,then they have to complete a major science experiment during their spring break.I had alot of fun things planned and now we have to cut back and do this science thing.I'm all for challenging students in school and teaching them responsibility for getting work done but spring break should not have to be used to do school work especially right after 3 weeks of CSAP testing.
March 14, 2008
8:17 a.m.
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raysmom writes:
While I agree that the CSAP's may be a huge waste of time, energy, and resources (only time will tell), that's not the point. The point is that our kids must understand that in this life, there will be things that have to be done, whether you like it or agree with it or not, and that the reward is simply that you did it, and tried to do it well. That's how you become successful and help CHANGE things, if you think they need changing. Too many parents fill their kids' heads with negativity about their responsibilities, and give them excuses for malcontented behavior, which does the kids no good at all in school or in the real world. Give support, understanding, and empathy, but guide them to do what they have to do with a positive attitude, and encourage them that while it may seem pointless, it is for their futures, and the more they do NOW to become positive, productive citizens, for it's own merits, the better off they will be as adults. Sometimes the reward has to be in the CHARACTER- not in the WALLET.
March 14, 2008
9:07 a.m.
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marlene897 writes:
Perhaps if this principal had a different attitude toward the test he would not need to pay his students!
March 14, 2008
9:11 a.m.
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Grim_Reefer writes:
As far as I understand, there is no consequence for the kids to take the test, that is, taking the CSAP has no effect on the students, so why should they take the test? At least paying them gives them some kind of incentive to actually take the test (but no incentive to try and do well..why would they if the score doesn't matter to them directly?)
It seems silly that schools are now held hostage by a standardized test where the results effect the school (money, etc..) but not the students...just seems like a poor scheme no matter how you look at it.
Would it be so wrong to at least tie the test results to students advancement to the next grade?
If they actually do this, please forgive my ignorance.
March 14, 2008
9:42 a.m.
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TheDenverB writes:
'I could be wrong... "
you probably are.
March 14, 2008
9:42 a.m.
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wow writes:
I really feel sorry for these kids, because while there are other schools that offer small incentives for sitting the tests, Manual is the only one offering money. $50 to a 14 year old kid for being someplace he/she is by law required to be anyway. School is compulsory until 17 years old, regardless of whether or not the kid "wants" to go. Maybe I'm old and out of touch, but doing what you are required to do is not so extraordinary that it justifies a $50 reward. What message is that sending? What else are the donors willing to pay these students to do? Pick up thier own lunch trays for a buck each day? Refrain from littering and spraying graffiti on the school walls for a monthly allowance?
Gimme a break.
This is nothing more than a political bribe. If the kids dont sit the test, the school doesn't get credit for perfoming, and those performance bonuses go out the window.
At any other school, the kids would be expected to understand the importance of regular attendance EVERY DAY. I have worried about Manual since I was a kid at East, and I was very dismayed to hear it had been reopened, even under the direction of Rob Stein.
Rob, how did they manage to convince you to take that crap job any way, much less this idiocy??
March 14, 2008
10:08 a.m.
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TheDenverB writes:
much more than you, bud. but thanks.
...and what of what you said has substance? talk about saying your .02 sense and not bringing anything to the table.
i mean, what do you do without someone barking orders at you and telling you what is right and wrong?
it's apparent that clear thought isn't your strong suit, and thankfully carrying a machine gun and squeezing the trigger doesn't take much of that.
March 14, 2008
10:15 a.m.
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TheDenverB writes:
"Or are you just running your fingers to see your words on the screen."
no, i think that's your M.O.
that said, i amdmit to not bringing much to this discussion. at least i can own up to it.
you, on the other hand, think liberal bashing (and i'm not defending liberals here, but talk about being a stereotypical "conservative") and name-calling of students and their parents, and illogically leaping from paying students to come take a test to kids shooting up high schools is 'bringing something to the table'.
personaly, i don't agree with paying students either. as one APS administrator said in an another article: " why should we pay them to do something they are supposed to be doing."
that said, manual is a very unique situation in the metro area and in colorado. and it means a lot for my neighborhood to have that school up and runing and performing well. if this is a way to change the climate there this year and get those kids in for once, instead of not coming in or posting zeros on their tests... then so be it.
March 14, 2008
10:29 a.m.
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TheDenverB writes:
thank you for being an amazingly accurate negative stereotype and proving everything in my last post for me.
"Is it cause you do not have the heart and intestinal fortitude to attempt something like that?"
funny, i see it as not wanting to be a sheep and go fight in useless wars. but, to each their own. i'll keep paying my taxes to pay you salary, though. you can thank me for that whenever you want.
sorry bud, i could care less about being PC and don't have any more respect for you and your service than i do for any other tax-paying american.
"Too do something for someone other then yourself?"
i don't have to carry a gun to do that, bud. (and it's "to")
"Put others before yourself?"
since you know all so much about me and where i do or do not spent my volunteer time....
""Quick, fire up google and get me to a liberal website ASAP! I must have something to say back!""
there you go again with your blindly sheepish conservative thought-process. next you'll be calling me a liberal something or other simply because i don't agree with you...
and you mother and father are sister and brother? that explains a lot. anyway, this has been fun but i've proved my point and, as you said, this adds nothing to the actual discussion.
carry on, and that's an order.
March 14, 2008
10:31 a.m.
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TheDenverB writes:
"oes it insult you to hear these words from the folks funding this BS?"
you aren't funding anything, bud. the money to pay students came from private funding. reading comprehension is a key skill in this world.
and i have no kids, but thanks for once again WILDLY jumping to conclusions. it sure helps your argument when you constantly make up the variables in it.
March 14, 2008
10:44 a.m.
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AWM writes:
That's redicilious, beside everyone knows those tests are RACIALLY BIASED! Here's a novel idea... get the kids parents involved and if they miss a class/test the get suspened (hand hopefully a swift kick in the arse). If they miss enough school they should get expelled and can only hope the learned enough to apply for GSSLA (Government Sponsored Stupid & Lazy Assistance). Kids need to learn that education in this country is a privilege, not something they should expect to be paid for.
Of course we could always do away with tenure, and get some real teachers in there to actually TEACH!
March 14, 2008
10:50 a.m.
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wow writes:
TheDenverB-
I'm just curious, but were you in the neighborhood when Manual was fully functional, meaning all grades in attendance?
If so, you know that the school and unfortunately most of its students were a blight on the neighborhood. When the students were around, that is. A big reason it closed was apallingly low attendance. And where were the students spending their time? What were they doing? Guess...
Granted, a good school in our neighborhood would be a great boon, but to start over, and impliment this type of nonsense right of the bat, bodes ill.
Same school, different kids, lining up to be ignored and disenfranchised, and ultimately drop out, just like their older siblings.
I say shut it down, turn it into something that will bring business into the community, and let the kids go to East and GW like they all did last year.
March 14, 2008
11:04 a.m.
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TheDenverB writes:
while i don't disagree with you completely, i think that getting these kids in to take the test is important.
yes, it is blatantly so they don't lose funding.. .but that funding is needed to keep the school going on the (good) mission they have now.
without that money, they will become the same school again. and the principal is right, these kids aren't stupid -- they know the test is bullsh*t and doesn't mean anything to them...
and again, while i don't agree with paying kids, i think this is a far cry from how it was before when apathy really reigned supreme at manual.
true, that needs to change. but lets just work on getting the school off the ground first before we condemn it. there's some good kids in my neighborhood and some good kids at that school.
March 14, 2008
11:29 a.m.
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wow writes:
DB,
May I call you DB? :)
MY biggest concern is this: What happens if the donors don't want to pay these kids when they are seniors.
What happens when these kids' underclassmen (if they ever get any) expect to be paid?
This was a bandaid exercise that will create resentment over a testing process that is already so hated that the kids have to be bribed to participate. A vicious cycle in the making.
And maybe, in this case, this school couldn't cut it, and doesn't deserve funding? Maybe it was a mistake to reopen it, and subject the neighborhood kids to a substandard school? Manual will never have the money that successful DPS schools boast. Money=quality educators=quality educations.
I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I care more about the quality of the school now than the hope for what it may some day be.
March 14, 2008
11:52 a.m.
Suggest removal
gs writes:
when's payday? I got me some nickle bags a crack to sell.
March 14, 2008
12:29 p.m.
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EastVail writes:
Leading by example . . . when you want people do to something they don't want to do, you can simply bribe them to get them to do what you want.
Welcome to America.
March 14, 2008
1:48 p.m.
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renaldo_phlegm writes:
It's all about me and immediate gratification. The parents who wrote to whine about doing homework over spring break and who make the claim that the CSAPs don't benefit their children are the obvious problem. Their children's school staying open, getting good marks, and rewarding good teachers and admins isn't directly in their children's interests? Oh you must mean today, the minute they finish the test. And even that's not true as there are tests to get into college, to get into grad school, to get into medical and law school, to get jobs, to advance in those jobs, etc. So it seems that learning to take tests is a very important skill for a young person to master, and isn't practice how you learn? I thought it was the parent's responsibility to make sure their kids attend grade school and high school, so how about fining the parents whose kids don't show up $50 per day rather than wasting about $45,000 and setting a terrible precedent?
Why should Johnny have to take tests and do homework...welcome to America indeed, the country that can't compete.
March 14, 2008
2:19 p.m.
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ONEman writes:
I think we should start boycotting these test and keep our kids home on purpose. This article just proves in America it takes money to make money to bad the kids still get the short end of the stick for all their hard work.
March 14, 2008
3:35 p.m.
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PostPaganBaby writes:
Just another example of how we demand NOTHING of students but cater to their basest natures. What's next? Beer and orgies for good CSAP scores? (Although given the time it takes to get test scores, that one wouldn't be practical!) Where's the principal's principles?
March 14, 2008
4:55 p.m.
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stella writes:
Renaldo:
Yes, learning to take tests is important. But all the tests you mentioned are for a much older child. Having a group of 9 and 10 year olds take 9 hours of testing is a bit ridiculous, eh? I mean...not even the SAT, ACT or GRE take that long.
March 14, 2008
5:02 p.m.
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teacher5000 writes:
I'm glad Rob Stein went public with this. This type of thing happens ALL the time. Some schools give out academic credit. So a bright kid, who can ace the test, does not have to be bothered with taking and advanced course, instead he or she can have a "free period". Schools offer pizza parties, raffles and all kinds of other crap to "motivate" the kids.
How about instead of paying kids we tie achievement to grade advancement. If you are a high school student and you fail to master Algebra, you will be offered extra help. If you choose not to actively participate and meet the standards, you will take Algebra again and again and again until you "get it". This is much better than giving the kid a D and passing him or her along to Algebra II where he or she becomes a drain on the teachers time or a disruption to the learning environment. This also means that teachers will need to step up. If the majority of the kids in a class are not "getting it" the problem probably lies with the teacher, not the kids.
To all the people screaming about teaching kids the value of taking tests, all the tests you mention (college entrance, job advancement etc) have a direct effect on your life. What does CSAP effect, for the kids? My son was getting proficient and advanced scores on the CSAP in elementary school, at a "low" rated school. He went to an "excellent" middle school and his scores plummeted. He was smart enough to figure out he could "bomb" the test and it meant NOTHING. The fact that he is now in high school is proof that poor CSAP scores did not hold him back.
I have no problem with accountability, but the only people being held "accountable" on CSAP are the teachers! If a kid decides to ditch that day or show up and blow off the test, NOTHING will happen, he or she can continue on, straight into college!
CSAP gives kids nothing except bragging rights for a few parents who actually think a single test is an accurate measure of a school and what their little darling is "achieving".
March 14, 2008
5:47 p.m.
Suggest removal
BetterEducated writes:
I'm just sick to read about this.
Texas was the first state to come up with the idea; to me that puts it into perspective a little faster. Colorado is behind several other states who put it into effect after it seemed to work.
(sigh) what are we coming to?
March 14, 2008
5:58 p.m.
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redwhiteandBLUE writes:
I went to Manual many years ago, we never got paid for attending class. If you want an education, go if not drop out, make space for someone else. Why cater to them, shut it down again. for good.
March 14, 2008
7:57 p.m.
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renaldo_phlegm writes:
I think people are talking about a lot of different things. I agree that if you only need a three hour test to evaluate if a student is ready for college it probably doesn't require three such tests to figure out if they learned what they needed to in third grade alone. In fact, there is more that I dislike about Denver public schools than I like.
However, what I was trying to get at is that in order to be part of a society and not be a sociopath it is necessary to try and change the things we don't like while still being willing to do a lot of things we don't necessarily agree with. I don't believe that a child should have to be paid to watch his brother or obey his parents. Being given an allowance is fine and a way to teach kids about money, but they should be taught that they do things for their family because it's the right thing to do. The same thing should apply to religion for those who believe in it, as one shouldn't be taught you go to church or temple to guarantee access to heaven, but to learn ethics and morality which is needed to live a good life and to be a good person. I hate that with our dependence on foreign oil and problems with pollution that the city of Denver doesn't time traffic lights, but I hate it more when I see people with kids in their cars running red lights.
I think it's safe to say that the vast majority of people have more issues with schools, government and our society than they have things they really like. And while we have a representative government and ways of changing things, it's a good bet that each individual will always have more distaste than approval for how things are run. But unless we continue to give retirees more money and benefits than they ever invested, and ask single people and folks with grown kids to keep supporting our schools with their tax dollars, asking people without cars to pay taxes for road repair, etc., there will be anarchy and things will be much worse (as they seem to be getting with kids shooting up schools).
Morality and decency aren't about doing what you want and agree with and receiving an obvious and immediate reward for your actions, they're about supporting your family, your church, your school, your government...the society you live in. And teaching kids that they don't have to do things that they don't want to, don't see a personal benefit in, or, worst of all aren't paid for, is in my opinion much, much worse for them and society than having to take three tests and do their best regardless of what’s in it for them.
March 14, 2008
9:08 p.m.
Suggest removal
ONEman writes:
renaldo_phlegm, MAJOR MAJOR APPLAUSE!!!!!!!!!
One thing I've been realizing lately is that in every aspect of life integrity self respect and honor are the key elements to true success. True people do seem to have a distaste for more and more lately and an over all fear of inconvenience and failure. We spend so much time complaining rather that putting forth our best efforts in every arena of life. Everything has come down to dollars and cents and this has become the foundation of our society. Overemphasis on money has caused us to become impatient , lazy, suspicious, skeptical, hateful, haughty, unsatisfied, dishonest, and greedy. You see it everywhere : though politics and sports are the best examples lately. If we don't start teaching our kids different values, we won't have to worry about "all the latest scare topics", because eventually we'll all cut each others throats eventually.
I was in Puerto Villarta for the holidays and I noticed in all the grocery stores little boys 9 and up were working. I asked one of my friends who lives there sometimes ... wait he's not an illegal he's wealthy ok.... so I asked him about the kids, he told me they work so they can earn money in order to attend a school. Man that's just plain sickening. Here we are paying our kids take a test and these kids are working just to have the privilege of going to a school. We blame a lot on Mexicans for coming over here when really, who can blame em, but that's another discussion all together. But people in this country complain about how bad life is in the Good Ol' U S A, while foreigners beat our doors down to even catch the crumbs that fall through the cracks. Perception is only as good as it's perceiver.
March 14, 2008
9:17 p.m.
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ONEman writes:
Anyway, thanks Renaldo. I learned a great deal from your posts. I will definitely have a better attitude about these tests and my child's education altogether from now on.
March 14, 2008
9:36 p.m.
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denverrma writes:
As a public school teacher, I think its disgraceful that the principal at Manual HS cant think of a better way to get his kids to take the CSAP. First off, as an 'example setter/modeler of behavior' and educator, he should have a better attitude toward the CSAP. Yes, there is no benefit for the kids who take it. The reason they should be there to take the test...without being paid...is that they are required by law to be in school until they are 17 years old! Besides, its a good life lesson to take the thing anyway. Many times in life, people are required to do things that may not benefit them personally. They should just do them because its the right thing to do and good for the organization/school. What kind of lesson is this principal teaching the student body at Manual HS?! They are learning that the only reason to do something is for personal benefit. Nice. No wonder my job get harder and harder each year. Its because of that type of lesson being taught by some parents, and now, apparently, a principal!
March 15, 2008
10:52 a.m.
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italiaboy9 writes:
You know I'm so tired of hearing how everything is so racially biased! Give me a break already! To whom is this test racially biased against? I want to know? Is it biased against our black youth? Biased against our Mexican youth? Who??? If you can't read or write, I don't care what color you are. LEARN!!!
I do not agree in paying students to come take a test. When i was a kid, it was expected i do these things. There was no doubt in my mind that I was required to take tests and study. Again I ask myself, where the hell are the parents? Hmmmm?
Also as much as I might agree with Renaldo on some points of his post, he says "and ask single people and folks with grown kids to keep supporting our schools with their tax dollars, asking people without cars to pay taxes for road repair, etc., there will be anarchy and things will be much worse (as they seem to be getting with kids shooting up schools)."
Well first of all, I don't mind paying taxes to help support my schools. I will never have kids and I'm single. The reason I don't mind it is that I know how important it is to have good schools. I went to one on Long Island. I know it's important to have updated materials, books, libraries and equipment. I know it's important to keep schools safe and to keep little minds filled with knowledge.
Also, you state that we shouldn't ask people who don't have cars to pay for road repair. This would be a nice feature if it were possible. Although, these people may not have cars, how do they get from place to place? Do they take buses? Do they have others take them here and there? Since, we can't teleport from place to place, they require roads just as much as I do.
I don't mind paying taxes. What I do mind is when people don't want to pay their fair share AND..AND most importantly, that the money I pay is being used appropriately. That is my biggest pet peeve. There needs to be more citizen oversight of where are money goes. As I've said before, Tabor was a nice idea...but it still never got to the root of our problems with government spending. If Denver wants to build a new park, then i want to know for sure that my money is going towards building the new park AND not going into some politicians little pet project for himself. I also think congress deserves a pay cut. There is no reason in hell that a congressman should be making a six figure salary. You want to be a congressman, then you get paid what the citizens truly think you're worth. (And no I'm not Ross Perot!)
As I've said before this government was set up to represent us ALL. It should not just be for the rich, or for the religious or for the liberal or for the conservative.
Anarchy might be coming but it won't be because of taxes on those who don't have cars. Anarchy will come when there are no more jobs, and there is no more food in the cupboard and our guns are taken away by our great government.
March 15, 2008
12:01 p.m.
Suggest removal
guest27 writes:
If the school does well, don’t you think they get bonus for the number of students who take the test? Why shouldn’t the students receive some money or prizes. [Notice, I didn’t say “do well on the test” because that isn’t as important as having high attendance, as illustrated by what Manuel’s paying the students for attendance.]
CSAP is designed to benefit the school administration and teachers only. It is not designed to help the student in any way. The students do not receive feedback in a timely manner (i.e. going over test questions not just scores), and they don’t learn test taking strategies (which would benefit them on important tests such as SAT/ACT).
A parent would do well to take their children out during CSAP testing and do something else – play, read, or visit a museum. They would gain much more doing these activies than taking CSAP.
Most parents don’t know they can exempt their student from taking the CSAPs. Just write a note and give it to the person administering the test. Then, take your child out of school during the testing (making sure they aren’t subjected to any make-up tests). Of course, the school won’t tell you that you can do it. But you can. I did this year for my children.
March 15, 2008
12:20 p.m.
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teacher5000 writes:
guest27
You are correct, parent's can exempt their kids from the test. The school receives a negative score for every kid who is exempted, or fails to show up, instead of the 0 they receive if the kid a least tries. Again the school is penalized and the kid walks away. These "scores" are then used to bash the school.
The biggest benefit of CSAP goes to the publishers, they are making millions. The test provides no useful data to the student or the teachers. Instead of whining about morality and duty why not change the testing process so it actually means something to the individual student.
CSAP was never designed for mass implementation. It was designed, by a team of CU professors, to measure how specific kids were doing at meeting specific standards. Many of the designers are mortified at how it is being used.
I would also like to say I agree with Italianboy for his points about taxes covering schools and roads. Single people and people without kids paid for my education and my kids education, before I had kids and after they are grown I will return the favor and pay for other people's education. Because I want to live in a country with an educated workforce.
Renaldo, I see some of your points. I agree kids should not be paid for helping around the house. But I recently say a kid kicked out of her house for having the audacity to arrange an internship that would help her choose a career and get into college, because it would interfere with the time she is expected to babysit her siblings everyday! Is that right? I have seen other kids have to take a half day of school so they can babysit. Maybe some of these parents should be more responsible and not have additional kids if they cannot support the ones they have. There is a difference between expecting your kids to help and asking them to give up their own lives and dreams. Nothing is as black and white as you seem to want to present.
March 15, 2008
1:30 p.m.
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kathyM writes:
I wonder what the CSAP scores are for the kids who would otherwise have skipped out. They probably didn't do much for the curve!
March 15, 2008
2:36 p.m.
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stella writes:
Kathy...it doesn't matter. Instead of a 0 (for skipping it), they will have some points given. Within every test, there are writing portions or portions to show math work. If you even try, you are given points. So 100 points is much better than 0, even if both results are not so great for the school.
Teacher5000, I agree with everything you've said. I think that until you've actually worked in a school and seen teachers in action and read through the CSAPs, there is little room for the wholesale complaints that seem to crop up every time an Education news story surfaces.
March 16, 2008
7:52 p.m.
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jane writes:
There is a benefit to the child to taking the test: their teachers are informed of their progress, or lack thereof, and can design their academic program appropriately. For instance, in middle schools, students receive extra reading or math "skills classes" in place of electives if they score Unsatisfactory. The benefit to doing better is that you can take gym or home ec. Some middle schools have Saturday school and the indicator? CSAP score.
We keep hearing word that summer school will return. The indicator for that used to be CSAP. Of course, it was a score over a year old since the feedback is so untimely. Why is that? Can't they be scored locally? Give the kids a day off and have the teachers grade the tests...not their own students', of course.