School kissing debate
Sexual-contact reports jump over fear of prosecution
By Nancy Mitchell, Rocky Mountain News (Contact)
Published March 7, 2008 at 12:30 a.m.
Updated March 7, 2008 at 11:08 a.m.
Confusion over when Denver Public Schools staff members should call police - and why - has one principal facing charges, city social services workers overwhelmed by cases as innocuous as kissing 5-year-olds and the city's top prosecutor apparently unwilling to offer guidance.
A state law requiring DPS principals and teachers to report suspected child abuse and neglect immediately, including unlawful sexual contact, is intended to protect their students.
But applying the law has caused problems between DPS and Denver police, and conflicting interpretations in recent weeks have led school staff members to increase reports for fear they, too, could be charged.
"There's a lot of confusion over what needs to be reported and what doesn't," said Kim Ursetta, president of the Denver Classroom Teachers Association. "Obviously, we have a legal duty to report, so it's even more important to make sure there's clear direction."
A Feb. 4 attempt at clarity, though, had the opposite effect. Denver Police Chief Gerry Whitman and Chief Deputy District Attorney Lamar Simms appeared before DPS principals to discuss the issue.
On a videotape of their talk, Whitman and Simms apparently disagree, at times placing their hands over the microphone as principals begin buzzing amid their growing confusion.
The session ends with DPS Superintendent Michael Bennet taking the mic and promising guidance will be coming.
A principal charged
A case involving three seventh- graders at Skinner Middle School, in northwest Denver, prompted the most recent concerns about reporting.
Principal Nicole Veltze, 37, considered a promising young DPS principal, was told on a Friday afternoon in December that a female student was inappropriately touched by two classmates.
Sources say she followed the DPS policy for an allegation of sexual harassment, quickly notifying an administrator in human resources.
A sexual assault, according to a legal reporting bulletin used by Denver principals, is defined as "a violent physical or verbal attack."
An assault warrants immediate notification of police; harassment does not.
But the girl's mother, perhaps upset that her daughter and not Veltze notified her of the touching, called police. That Sunday, police questioned Veltze. They later charged her with failing to report the crime as the law requires, a Class 3 misdemeanor.
Worry soon spread among DPS employees. After the Simms-Whitman talk, DPS attorney John Kechriotis issued an e-mail noting the presentation "exacerbated" the issue. The issue requires additional discussion with police and prosecutors, he wrote, adding, "For now, however, you should promptly report any incident which you reasonably believe constitutes a crime."
Wednesday, members of the City Council's safety committee heard testimony from Roxane White, manager of the Denver Department of Human Services, that her staff is being overwhelmed by referrals from DPS.
Cases such as two 5-year-olds kissing at a school are among the 251 school referrals in the month of February, up from a monthly average of 142.
"What has happened . . . is a great deal of fear for schoolteachers," White told council members, adding it's creating "huge system problems" for her "stressed" staff.
Whitman attended the meeting, as did DPS administrator Bob Anderson. Denver District Attorney Mitch Morrissey did not.
Morrissey's spokeswoman, Lynn Kimbrough, said he did not attend because of the pending case against Veltze, who is scheduled to make her first court appearance next week.
But Kimbrough also said Morrissey does not want to be involved in setting policy for the school district.
"We can explain what the law is but not set policy," she said.
If teachers are still confused about what to report, "those would seem to be training issues to clarify what the law is and what should be reported," she said. "Two 5-year-olds kissing is pretty clearly not something you would report."
Questions about the reporting law abound, based on the videotape of the principals' presentation and the City Council committee meeting.
They include how quickly crimes are to be reported - is immediately two hours or 24 hours? - and which agency, police or social services, takes which reports.
Talks are ongoing
The issue is further confused because the law says principals are not to conduct their own investigations. So how does a principal know whether the claim made is reasonable?
In addition, the city attorney's office has issued a preliminary report saying a DPS employee can't be prosecuted unless they "willfully" fail to report an abuse or neglect claim they believe to be true.
Thursday, Bennet said there have been "several conversations," including a meeting last week in the mayor's office, to "make sure our policies reflect the desires of law enforcement."
"It's an ongoing conversation," he said. "We'd love to resolve it as soon as we can."
Linkhart and City Councilwoman Jeanne Faatz, also a member of the council's safety committee, said they have no jurisdiction over Morrissey, an elected official. Nor do they have any say over Bennet, who is appointed by the Denver school board.
But they said the reporting confusion is impacting two city agencies - police and social services. Linkhart said he hopes Morrissey will weigh in.
"The right thing is to try to get some clarity to people in terms of how they're going to prosecute," Linkhart said. "He's the head prosecutor, but that doesn't mean you essentially wait by the trap until someone falls in. You try to keep them from going into the trap."
Reporting crime
Colorado law requires school principals and teachers to immediately report suspected crimes against children, including abuse and neglect.
But the law is open to interpretation.
How quickly is immediately? And what, exactly, constitutes abuse?
Charges filed against Skinner Middle School's principal recently prompted a surge in reporting to Denver police and social services.
Here's a look at how this issue has evolved:
February 2002 - Denver Police Capt. Tim Leary publicly accuses DPS officials of delays in reporting allegations of sexual assaults on students. Leary claims, in one case, an administrator threatened to expel a student if she reported a sexual assault.
The claims prompt meetings between Police Chief Gerry Whitman and then-DPS Superintendent Jerry Wartgow.
Ultimately, Whitman and then-Denver District Attorney Bill Ritter, now the governor, meet with DPS principals to clarify reporting guidelines.
The issue, however, lingers.
September 2007 - DPS announces a shift in its discipline policy, prompted by community concerns that too many students are being referred to police for minor incidents.
The new policy, called Restorative Justice, emphasizes talking by students involved in disputes to repair the harm done.
Rather than police referrals, students and their parents meet to discuss the problems and decide on reparations, such as letters of apology.
Community groups applaud the move but it raises concerns with Denver police, who meet with DPS officials to review the policy.
December 2007 - A student at Skinner Middle School reports being repeatedly touched on her chest, buttocks and "private parts" by two classmates while the teacher's back is turned. She reports the incident to Principal Nicole Veltze.
Veltze suspends the boys and offers the girl's mother the option of Restorative Justice.
The mother opts to call police and press charges. Veltze is later charged with a misdemeanor count of failure to report a crime at her school.
January 2008 - Veltze's attorney accuses Denver police and the Denver District Attorney's Office of making his client the scapegoat in an ongoing "turf battle" with DPS over reporting requirements in suspected abuse and neglect cases. Rich Caschette said his client followed DPS policy at every turn.
February - Chief Deputy District Attorney Lamar Simms and Denver Police Chief Gerry Whitman jointly address DPS principals on the issue of reporting allegations. But Simms and Whitman appear at times to disagree with each other, prompting even more concern from principals.
DPS attorneys issue a statement to principals urging them to "promptly report any incident, which you reasonably believe constitutes a crime," while the district seeks clarity on the issue.
March - Roxane White, the manager of the Denver Department of Human Services, reports to City Council Safety Committee members that referrals from DPS jumped 76.7 percent in the month of February. She said her staff is being overloaded with reports such as that of two 5-year-olds kissing at school.
City Council members Doug Linkhart and Jeanne Faatz call on DPS, Denver police and District Attorney Mitch Morrissey to work together to resolve the confusion.
An incident with repercussions
Confusion about when Denver Public Schools staff members are to report allegations to police stems largely from the charging of a school principal in January.
Nicole Veltze, principal of Skinner Middle School in northwest Denver, faces a misdemeanor count of failure to report an allegation of child abuse or neglect at her school.
According to police reports obtained by the Rocky Mountain News, here's what happened:
On Dec. 14, a seventh-grade girl reported to Veltze that she had been touched by two boys in her class.
The girl said the boys, also seventh-graders, repeatedly touched her on her buttocks, private parts and chest while the teacher had her back turned to the class.
She said she "froze" during the incidents and, after class, ran to a friend who took her to Veltze's office.
Veltze said she talked to both boys, and they admitted doing what the girl said. Both boys were suspended.
The dispute arises over whether, and when, Veltze should have called police.
According to reports, the girl told her mother after school on Friday, the day it occurred. The mother called Denver police. Police then contacted Veltze that Sunday, Dec. 16.
mitchelln@RockyMountainNews.com or 303-954-5245
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March 7, 2008
5:02 a.m.
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happymike44 writes:
I know I would never wnt to be a teacher or an adminstrator at a public school.Next these poor teachers are going to have to have a lawyer in the workplace.So that they can run everything by him.So they know when to call the police and when not to.First of all no person should be touching another person.Without the approval of the other person.This is simple if 2 kids are dating or kissing it's up to the parents to conclude if it is okay.All Sexual assaults should be reported.It's is just this simple if you tell someone not to touch you and they do.Then they should pay the price for their misconduct.As for the 5 year olds kissing what is the big deal leave that up to the parents.Also seperate them from each other unless,told different by the parents.If I was the parent of a sexual assault victim I would want to know what has been do to protect my child in the future.Also the molestor should not be allowed to return to school,until the total facts are known.
March 7, 2008
6 a.m.
Suggest removal
buffsblg writes:
I said before and will reiterate: Morrissey is being a gutless bureaucrat who has caused a problem and now is trying as hard as he can to try to avoid any responsibility. Whatever happened with Veltze, the current over reporting is the direct result of Morrissey' flunky going to the schools and telling them to report anything or go to jail. Now that there is a very predictable fear by teachers, Morrissey goes into hiding and then sends his mouthpiece out to blame the teachers for doing exactly what the DA's office told them to do.
There are lots of people who seem to be trying to work this out, but unless Morrissey grows a pair and comes to the table, the appropriate policies cannot be established.
March 7, 2008
6:05 a.m.
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goose writes:
Just another case of a well-intentioned but poorly thought out and poorly written law that is essentially useless. But about what we should expect based on the type of people we elect to run our country.
March 7, 2008
6:38 a.m.
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Mtnsjohn writes:
Per Colorado Statutes, a child under ten cannot be found guilty of a crime...so they are never charged. That should provide some guidance.
Crimes are defined in statute. To say that sexual assault may be a "verbal assault" is not Colorado Statute but sounds like wishful thinking on the part of an educrat.
March 7, 2008
7:20 a.m.
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casualobserver writes:
Had these students been properly instructed in the use of condoms at the time of the incident?
March 7, 2008
7:43 a.m.
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climber4life writes:
I just feel bad for that poor principle who tried to do her job, thought she was doing the right job, but because this was taken in the extreme, is now CHARGED with a crime? Are you kidding me? This could ruin her career. I feel for her.
March 7, 2008
8:04 a.m.
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Eric writes:
I kissed a girl for the first time when I was 6. I'll leave her name out of this.....but she was a total slut and she used me. After I kissed her she just ran off and started to play Pogs and eat Pixie sticks. She wouldn't even acknowledge me afterwards! I tried to get her attention by pulling her hair and "bunny-hopping" on my dirt bike...but that didn't work. Auughhh....kids can be so cruel. She later became a Lesbian and just got married! Shoot....boss is coming.....better get back to saving the world.
March 7, 2008
8:11 a.m.
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JYP3500 writes:
What has happened to our education system? Yet another example of politically correct educrats who have taken over and common sense has left the building. Come on! It doesn't take a PHD to understand that children raised in a loving home are probably kissed & hugged constantly. And when they start school, guess what? They bring this behavior to school. It's shocking to read that "Cases such as two 5-year-olds kissing at a school are among the 251 school referrals in the month of February, up from a monthly average of 142." Instead of teaching these young children what's appropriate (and not appropriate) in a school setting, the educrats are actually logging & tracking & reporting these cases? And now they are involving the police and politicians? Unbelievable! They should all be fired and let's start over.
March 7, 2008
8:18 a.m.
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Theoldguy writes:
We all may have missed something. Part of the headline was "city social services workers overwhelmed by cases as innocuous as kissing 5-year-olds...." If we review our knowledge of "The Law and how to sue for big bucks" it becomes obvious that many of Denver residents, some possibly newcomers to the scene, are quickly learning that to properly form a civil case one has to follow the proper steps. making a complaint to social services starts this long paper trail. A promising ambulance chaser will quickly snap a case up or perhaps decide a class action suit is justified. This is how you hit hit life's Big One in Denver. Otherwise known as the deep pocket principle.
March 7, 2008
8:19 a.m.
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farsidefan writes:
JYP3500:
According to the DA and the law, if they don't they will be charged. Would you take the chance of being charged by the police? I think not. Common sense should be the words of the day as the principal tried. The mother blew a gasket and voila ! the educator was charged.
March 7, 2008
8:28 a.m.
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Lainie writes:
I know what my daughter would have done. Instinctively she would've hauled off and hit someone -- hard -- let 'em know up close and personal that that was not okay with her!
March 7, 2008
8:33 a.m.
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buffsblg writes:
Tried to read more closely jyp3500. It is not the teachers who want to do this. It is the DA who told teachers that if they do not report ANY AND ALL potential abuse, they will go to jail. The teachers may want to be intelligent about it, but the DA says no. If a DA told you to do something no matter how stupid, would you risk jail and your livelihood by refusing to do so? You can call names all you want but accusing the teachers is attacking the wrong people.
Mtnstjohn, while you are correct that a child under 10 cannot be charged, the reporting statute is not limited to crimes, it applies to all potential abuse, even if it does not lead to criminal charges. Specifically it requires reporting by any teacher (and a number of others):
"who has reasonable cause to know or suspect that a child has been subjected to abuse or neglect or who has observed the child being subjected to circumstances or conditions which would reasonably result in abuse or neglect". C.R.S. 19-3-304 (1).
This is very broad language and apparently the DA who spoke to the principals told them to report everything. I understand you do not like teachers (what you call educrats), but once again would you ignore what a DA said at the risk of jail?
Are some teachers probably over reporting to make a point? Of course, but the DA brought this on and now refuses to help.
March 7, 2008
8:51 a.m.
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wow writes:
I think I have a better bead on this today after reading what happened to the 7th grader. The principal suspends the boys pending her determination of whether there was a "crime" as defined by DPD. It's Friday afternoon, and we all know that means it will be looked at again in depth Monday morning. The Mother says, not good enough, I want criminal charges pressed, so she calls police, as is her right, I probably would have too.
It was the Mother who took it out of DPS hands, and did what DPS probably would have done anyway, at her request, come Monday morning. In any case, justice doesn't seem to be suffering.
One thing more, at East High, there is a police office on the first floor. I doubt reporting is an issue there, so is this where our schools are all headed? If the District Atty.'s office doesn't want to set DPS policy, then they ought to stop doing it.
March 7, 2008
8:58 a.m.
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wow writes:
Buffs-
Wouldn't CRS 19 3 304 be interpreted to mean "abuse or neglect" occuring outside of school, ie: Child comes to class with bruises he can't reasonably explain, or child appears underfed and dirty, etc..? If I were a teacher, this would be MY interpretation of the rule, and it doesn't seem vague at all to me.
March 7, 2008
9:45 a.m.
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jackwoehr writes:
Another day in the nascent American Police State.
March 7, 2008
9:49 a.m.
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luis2222 writes:
Some thoughts on investigating abuse allegations…
DPS In the case of harassment they are mandating their employees to ask questions (another form of saying investigate!) and to discern on whether is horseplay or crime.
By ordering teachers to report every occurrence of a sexual impropriety they are telling them that they know nothing and to call experts.
The experts or qualified investigators get their knowledge from reading books and manuals and their investigation has to be exact in following the book. So if there are experts, there must be a book and I wish some expert could identify it so we all interested can share some of this expertise. IF THERE IS NO BOOK, THERE ARE NO EXPERTS.
This book, if it exists, I imagine to qualify the experts has to be exact in such a way that nothing is left to common judgement. Probably if it exists will say things like: Is OK to touch buttocks playing football but not in the shower. Being the thigh from the knee to the hip, the book will have to read like is harassment touching it up to 2 inches up the knee and a crime any place higher. A cheek kiss is harassment, a tongue kiss is crime…. Boy I wish I had the book so I do not bust my brains thinking what it says.
The expert, following the book, in his investigation will have to review the cameras that film the shower action, will have to take fingerprints and measure with a ruler the little girl’s thigh or will have to have an ADN test on the saliva. This is the only way an expert report can be valid. Experts are no better than teachers to make judgement calls so pleaaaaase, before you expose my children to this expert investigation, SHOW ME THE BOOK.
So assuming the book exists, the best and most economical solutions for DPS are:
1. Replace principals with crime experts. (NO additional employees)
2. Equip all schools with body rulers, cameras and ADN laboratories (cheap technology in this era)
With these, the reported case load will greatly decrease (millions of $$ savings in public services), teachers will dedicate their valuable time to teaching instead of worrying about what to report or not, or whether they will be jailed or not if they fail in their judgement, there will be no law suits against the schools with the consequent BILLIONS of $$ savings in lawyers fees.
From readings on the subject I understand that DA. Morrissey decided to look tough on sex abuse (mainly for his future political aspirations) by making these WAKE UP CALLS to DPS by prosecuting teachers, and if this is so, I suggest that he follows the above suggestions.
After a generation of this CONCENTRATION CAMP SCHOOLING STYLE there will be trillions of $$ in savings to the taxpayers and DA. Morrissey will be elected President of United States.
I still take my chances with JUDGEMENT CALLS made by qualified teachers rather than JUDGEMENT CALLS by crime experts, police and mainly lawyers WITH NO BOOK.
March 7, 2008
9:50 a.m.
Suggest removal
buffsblg writes:
Wow
This needs to be read in conjunction with C.R.S. 19-1-103(1)(a) which defines "abuse". While most of the definitions are about physical abuse at home there are broader definitions that seem to be causing the problem. Those include:
"(II) Any case in which a child is subjected to unlawful sexual behavior as defined in section 16-22-102 (9), C.R.S.;
(IV) Any case in which a child is subjected to emotional abuse. As used in this subparagraph (IV), "emotional abuse" means an identifiable and substantial impairment of the child's intellectual or psychological functioning or development or a substantial risk of impairment of the child's intellectual or psychological functioning or development. "
Seems that the problem is in understanding and defining 'unlawful sexual behavior" and " emotional abuse". Note that these are not limited to the parents, but apply to any situation where abuse may have occurred. The sex abuse stuff is the hardest because the definitions are very detailed and complicated even for lawyers to understand. There is always a danger when laypersons are asked to understand complicated statutes. In this case it seems the DA's have told the teachers to not even try and just leave it to the cops and Human Services. That has led to the increase in reporting.
Remember, the teacher who was charged was accused of not reporting a claim of sex abuse by students on another student. No parent was involved. The DA has required the teachers to report any possible case of "sexual abuse" and the teachers are now running scared. You and I might think that kissing kindergarteners is an easy call, but if you faced jail if you were wrong, you would likely report as well.
March 7, 2008
11:11 a.m.
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wow writes:
Buffs--
Thanks, that's exactly what I wanted to know. And you're right about the teachers being terrified, I would be too. I think prior to this nonsense, DPS policy took the view that I previously stated about reporting "abuse and neglect", and kept a somewhat different set of guidelines for reporting student offenses. For example, student offenses, when non-violent and not involving contraband, are handled by the school's disciplinary policies, and abuses occuring outside school are reoported to the authorities.
Does all this mean that any rough physical contact or trash talking on the playground constitutes abuse and is a crime?
If these are the rules now, the brat who knocked my daughter's glasses off and called her a name the other day ought to be reported so she can cool her heels in juvie. Bet you anything that our principal didn't report that incident, though, because she has bigger fish to fry this week with CSAPs ;). I won't tell if she doesn't.
March 7, 2008
11:36 a.m.
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LOUIE writes:
Veltze should be prosecuted; if any adult would have did that to a grown woman it would have surely constituted an assualt. Police should have been involved. The prosecutor, the chief, and the principle need to get on the same page along with social services so to give a clear direction. Lastly, as a parent what the hell kind of circus is going on in our public schools. My daughter's school is not experencing these problems because the staff is highly disiplined and doesn't tolerate it. Mr. Gibbons and his staff are forever in charge. Not saying it couldn't happen, but God save the empire if it does. Mr. Gibbons and the staff are not tolerant of anything that interferes with the academic agenda they have set forth. That child was assaulted repeatedly and Veltze didn't think a cop should be called? Veltze is nuttier than a musical degree from Sing-Sing.
March 7, 2008
11:41 a.m.
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LOUIE writes:
I bet if somebody repeatedly grabbed Veltze by the breasts and buttocks she'd call a cop!
March 7, 2008
12:27 p.m.
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CalebTGL writes:
This is all pretty rediculous, but from the gist of the article, if the principle would have involved the girl's parent immediately instead of allowing her to hear it all from her daughter when she got home the mom may well have not been upset enough to involve the police.
In my experience with DPS I have seen a real problem with schools (principles) not notifying and involving parents on the front end. Its something that needs to change.
March 7, 2008
1:10 p.m.
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fntsymtn writes:
"December 2007 - A student at Skinner Middle School reports being repeatedly touched on her chest, buttocks and "private parts" by two classmates while the teacher's back is turned. She reports the incident to Principal Nicole Veltze.
Veltze suspends the boys and offers the girl's mother the option of Restorative Justice.
The mother opts to call police and press charges. Veltze is later charged with a misdemeanor count of failure to report a crime at her school."
If this is an accurate representation of the cronology of events, it sounds to me like Veltze did talk to the parent and the parent chose to go to the police.
Based on Colorado Statute, and what is reported as Restorative Justice in DPS, it sounds like this case has been dealt with "by the book" by all concerned parties. Hopefully, Veltze will be found guilty of "following the rules" and be allowed to return to work.
The rules definitely need to be re-written because it sounds like Restorative Justice does not adequately comply with Colorado Statute, so DPS and the Denver DA need to work together to fix the mess they have created and let teachers and principals get back to educating our children.
March 7, 2008
2:30 p.m.
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psu96 writes:
It's Principal people. not principle.
March 7, 2008
9:16 p.m.
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beyonce writes:
hi,
I'm a student from Skinnner Middle School and everything was going soooo well until this happened at our school!!!! Personally i'm angry at the people that were involved (i mean the kids) but i LOVe ms. Veltze she was what Skinner Middle School needed and still does,I want her to come back so she can at least see her eigth graders GRADUTE!!!! *SNIFFLES*