Man admits he's 'whipping boy' in Rockies Ladies Night suit
By Nancy Mitchell, Rocky Mountain News (Contact)
Published March 4, 2008 at 6:11 a.m.
Updated March 4, 2008 at 2:58 p.m.
A Denver man waging legal war against Ladies Night promotions at bars and clubs in the metro area has scored a victory against the Colorado Rockies.
The Colorado Civil Rights Division issued a probable cause finding Feb. 29 in the gender discrimination complaint filed by Steve Horner against the ball club.
The division ordered the two into "compulsory mediation," according to the letter Horner received Saturday.
"The Rockies could either go into mediation or they could appeal the probable cause finding," said Chris Lines, spokesman for the state Department of Regulatory Agencies, which includes the civil rights division.
Rockies spokesman Jay Alves said today it was "premature for us to make any comment on that issue."
Horner, a self-described anti-feminist, said the complaint stemmed from a Ladies Night promotion on July 25 at Coors Field.
"I asked no fewer then five different employees at and around the gate that day late in July for a voucher for a free game," Horner said today. "I went all the way to the top of the customer service ladder and was blatantly, clearly denied."
In his complaint, he wrote that, "I was denied equal privileges at the Rockies game because of my gender."
Horner has filed nearly 20 lawsuits in Denver and Aurora municipal courts over ladies night promotions.
He's lost at least four of the suits but he's also won some — judges in two separate suits found in his favor in November.
Those victories, involving two Denver night clubs, yielded less than $100 in each case. But Horner said it's not about the money.
"What I hope results from this is exactly what is happening," he said, "a huge amount of constructive dialogue arguing the ups and downs, ins and outs, the sweet and sour qualities of creating a truly egalitarian society."
He's become a "whipping boy," he said, because he's taking on favors for women, "the darlings of today's society."
"If it were turned around and the cast of characters was different and the Rockies were holding maybe a Gentile night, let's say, and the Jews had to pay," he said, " ... if I was in one of those categories, then I would have lawyers lined up around the block, chomping at the bit to represent me."
The Colorado Civil Rights Commission has sided with Horner in the past, including a July 23 resolution in which it "strongly" discouraged ladies nights.
"The commission ... recommends instead that establishments consider neutral promotions involving perhaps free or reduced admissions to a limited number of customers who appear before a certain time," the resolution reads.
Courts elsewhere also have prohibited ladies nights.
John F. Banzhaf III, a law professor at George Washington University in Washington, D.C., said about a dozen states, including California, Connecticut and New York, have outlawed the practice. So has Boulder.
But the rulings and court orders against ladies nights are often not enforced.
New Jersey is a case in point. Despite a 2004 ruling by the state's civil rights division that the practice is discriminatory, clubs and restaurants continue to have ladies nights, said Deborah Dowdell, president of the New Jersey Restaurant Association, told the Rocky in September 2006.
Horner said the reason the orders are not enforced is simple: "White men like me are not on the feminist's who's who list of oppression and disadvantage."
He doesn't plan to let the issue die.
"If the Rockies baseball team ignores the wishes of the civil rights people and continues to discriminate," he said, "I'll take them to district court and work on getting a six-figure award."
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March 4, 2008
6:36 a.m.
MrJim writes:
(This comment was removed by the site staff.)
March 4, 2008
6:57 a.m.
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BirdonaWire writes:
Hey Jerk, I love ladies night at the ballgame. Quit ruining good things for the rest of us.
March 4, 2008
7:44 a.m.
Scott writes:
(This comment was removed by the site staff.)
March 4, 2008
8:38 a.m.
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Jennie writes:
This man is so irritating. Get a life!
March 4, 2008
8:46 a.m.
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DenverVol writes:
How long ago did his wife leave him and he still has these issues? This man seriously needs to get a life, but I'm afraid all the press he continues to get just fuels him more.
March 4, 2008
9:04 a.m.
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temurlan writes:
What the heck is an "antifeminist"? Would that be the same thing as a pro-woman-hater? Just another example of some wet rag whose mental issues ruin a good thing for everybody.
March 4, 2008
9:06 a.m.
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Radar writes:
Homer, why don't you get life, you obviously have waaayyy too much time on your hands. to coin an old phrase, " Don't go away angry... just go away."
March 4, 2008
9:08 a.m.
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Eric writes:
He probably lives in his mom's basement. We should start a website, "Real-Men-Against-Stephen-Horner.com". We could use the site to post pictures of what we think this guy looks like....but I am too lazy and that would take some work. I bet he looks like Comic Book Guy from the Simpsons or Kip from Napolean Dynomite.
March 4, 2008
9:27 a.m.
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Dan29 writes:
If this was a "GUYS NIGHT" and the men were the ones getting free tickets then women would be outraged and they would be the ones claiming discrimination.
March 4, 2008
9:33 a.m.
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temurlan writes:
Maybe this season the Rockies could find where horner is sitting and put his picture up on the big screen with "No Ladies Night this season brought to you by..." Run horner run!
March 4, 2008
10:13 a.m.
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fiesty writes:
chivalry is dead... at least it will be if Horner has his way!
March 4, 2008
10:58 a.m.
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aeb1barfo writes:
VIVA LA DIFFERENCE!!!!
This is what being PC will give us...............GRAY PEOPLE!!!
EVERYONE will become a HOMO.....Homogeneous that is....;-)...
March 4, 2008
11:04 a.m.
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JK writes:
They should change it to skirt night or boxers night. If you want in free you have to wear a skirt, guys /gals who cares. To be even do the same for boxers night.
March 4, 2008
11:04 a.m.
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JustSayin writes:
"chivalry is dead." - it was killed off by the femi-nazis of the '60's and '70's. I actually had a woman pull a door out of my hand and sneer "I don't need anyone holding a door for ME!" Now there's someone insisting on true equality and most of you are getting down on him?
I think this is a case of the gals getting a bit of "be careful what you ask for, you might just get it". Equal pay for equal work - cool! All for it! But if the 'good old boys' have to give up their special privileges, so do the gals!
Yes, it's a minor issue, and yes, this guy has no life. But he's correct - what's good for the goose is good for the gander.
March 4, 2008
11:17 a.m.
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fiesty writes:
JustSayin- that is a sad story, but it does happen. There are both men and women who don't realize that while men and women should be EQUAL, they are still DIFFERENT, not the same. Those "femi-nazis" don't realize that, and want to be treated the SAME.
I was in the military, often as the only woman in my section. When in uniform or on the battlefield, I expected to be treated as a soldier, treated no different than the other guys. However, out of uniform, I expect to be treated as a woman. A gentleman opening the door doesn't change my beliefs that women deserve equal pay for equal work, and doesn't make me insecure.
March 4, 2008
11:21 a.m.
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fiesty writes:
JustSayin- Let me put it this way. Horner is a just a male equivalent of those femi-nazis- insecure in himself and his sexuality, and lashing out at others. I may have been in the military, had martial arts and medieval sword fighting as hobbies, yet while I was called a tomboy, not once once was I called "butch". I was never ashamed of being female, like the femi-nazis.
March 4, 2008
12:36 p.m.
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nativegirl writes:
Some people just wake up looking to be offended. LOSERS!
March 4, 2008
12:36 p.m.
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Heidi writes:
Okay Dan2, here you go:
Maybe this would be a better world if the human race evolved into asexual creatures.
March 4, 2008
12:38 p.m.
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TheDenverB writes:
dan is right. as obnoxious and annoying as this guy is (can we please tar and feather him and leave him on the other side of the colorado/kansas border?)....
he has a point.
what if this was "white people day" at the park? sex discriminiation is no different than race discrimination, even if it is for a fun promotional thing.
that said, there was no problem with it and it seems only this douche is complaining.... back to my tar and feather idea....
March 4, 2008
12:39 p.m.
Suggest removal
Heidi writes:
j88,
If it's not okay to punch a man, then it is not okay to punch a girl - especially not me.
March 4, 2008
12:56 p.m.
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Heidi writes:
I guess it's okay, as long as he deserves it.
March 4, 2008
1:09 p.m.
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princess writes:
Did this tool ever stop to think that they are trying to market to the women to encourage them to start getting into baseball? Coming from a girls point of view you don't have to market me because we have a hottttt team and I love baseball so I would go anyway but there are girls who don't go because they don't know the game or don't go cuz it doesn't interest them so by giving a free ticket they can learn the game and get interested.
March 4, 2008
1:16 p.m.
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davies writes:
Sorry 'jdoubles8', but you can't go to White People Day. Maybe you can get in on 'People Who Suck Day'.
Sorry, I couldn't resist...
March 4, 2008
1:21 p.m.
Suggest removal
GWM writes:
princess, stop being so logical and intuitive. you can see from the thread and the lawsuit that this is not about reason and logic.
davies, don't be so harsh on jdub. save that for when he punches the vixon.
March 4, 2008
1:22 p.m.
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GWM writes:
oh jdub, such wit! lol!!!!!!!!!
March 4, 2008
1:23 p.m.
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Jim writes:
I like the big screen comment. Homer would be getting lots of free beer mostly on the head, shoulders and lap. Next this wingnut will be going after senior citizen discounts. He could attack "happy hours" as discriminating against unhappy people. The link is to the Civil Rights Commission.
http://www.dora.state.co.us/Civil-Rig...
March 4, 2008
1:24 p.m.
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Heidi writes:
Excuse me, GWM,
"when" he punches the vixon? You must mean "if". And how could you allow that to happen?
March 4, 2008
1:27 p.m.
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GWM writes:
Yeah, yeah. As usual you are correct. 'If' should have been the correct statement and 'when' I can prevent it, I will.
March 4, 2008
1:33 p.m.
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flipwashington writes:
Ladies nights have been part of bar/sports culture since the dawn of time (late 70s?) and serves many essential purposes, not limited to getting people into the bars mid-week in this otherwise quiet town (thereby helping local businesses) and acting as a setting for the complex mating dance we heterosexuals like to engage in. Sure, if you want to be technical and lame, ladies night does discriminate against men. But what man really gives a sh*t besides Horner, who is the ultimate douchebag and not a man at all? I can't wait until he dies or moves away.
March 4, 2008
1:37 p.m.
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davies writes:
Why heck yes, Jdub! Why don't you lead the marching band in the Gay Pride Parade right on into the People Who Suck Day event. As long as everybody is white, you'll be in Hog Heaven!
March 4, 2008
1:41 p.m.
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Heidi writes:
hehe, that's funny to imagine jdub in tights, twirling a baton!
March 4, 2008
1:43 p.m.
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GWM writes:
Davies, are you calling gay people hogs?
March 4, 2008
1:47 p.m.
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davies writes:
Oh my; how did I end up circling the drain with you guys? Gotta go; catch you all on the Next Big Story!
March 4, 2008
1:54 p.m.
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Heidi writes:
Well, then, you must already have the outfit for the parade.
March 4, 2008
1:57 p.m.
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GWM writes:
Davies, I wouldn't call it circling the drain. That is rather harsh. You joined a thread that is comical. What do you expect? Milton, Thoreau, Shakespeare? You get jdubicisms, vixonisms, and gaywhitemaleicisms (oh, did I say that? and the joke continues)
March 4, 2008
1:59 p.m.
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Heidi writes:
mtnsurfer,
The ladies have no choice but to bring the kids, since you are out with your buddies. It's your turn next time. ;)
I don't think a baseball game is a place for small children. Too many people getting drunk on overpriced cheap beer.
March 4, 2008
1:59 p.m.
Suggest removal
my3pugs writes:
Promote Ladies Day at Coors Field to get women interested in baseball, since they are less interested.
Then promote Negro Day at Winter Park to get dark skinned people interested in skiing.
Then promote Gender Bender Day at the Raceway to get Gay people interested in car racing.
Then ...
March 4, 2008
2 p.m.
Suggest removal
POHA writes:
Laaaame.
Marketing is very different from civil rights.
One is a promotion intended on driving capitalism, the other is intended to protect people from being unable to change their socioeconomic status. I think the courts should sue him for wasting our tax dollars!
March 4, 2008
2:03 p.m.
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GWM writes:
Varooom, varooom!!
March 4, 2008
2:04 p.m.
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Heidi writes:
Right on POHA!
And princess was somewhat right. But their main objective is to get more men to buy tickets because of the extra women there. And for a man to go on a cheap date.
March 4, 2008
2:04 p.m.
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my3pugs writes:
So you have to look obviously like a lady to get the voucher. Some women don't dress in obviously sexual identifiable ways. Fewer men dress in sexually ambiguous ways, but imagine the conversation.
"Uh, the vouchers are only for Ladies, sir"
"I am a lady, the hormones are just a bit out of whack, I forget to take them sometimes."
"I'll have to verify your lack of a penis, please follow me."
March 4, 2008
2:09 p.m.
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my3pugs writes:
So POHA, a corporation has the right to selectively market based on well defined discriminatory grounds for marketing reasons? Guess again.
March 4, 2008
2:13 p.m.
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GWM writes:
AirBailey, is Hog Heaven a gay bar? Davies might be interested.
March 4, 2008
2:34 p.m.
Suggest removal
RightBeDone writes:
What this guy doesn't realize is that many feminists would probably agree with him. Many feminists think it is disgusting to give free tickets or drinks to women in order to lure men to that event. They would argue that ladie's nights are the objectification of women. Whatever his intention, he is a better feminist than many I have met. Jokes on him.
March 4, 2008
2:35 p.m.
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RightBeDone writes:
forgive the bad punctuation. Ladies' nights
March 4, 2008
2:49 p.m.
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GWM writes:
jdub, did they do a good job for you?
March 4, 2008
2:49 p.m.
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Zinnia79 writes:
What is up with all the haters? It's nice that bars and clubs have ladies night..it gives women more of an incentive to go out. Free drinks doesn't hurt, either. When men hear it's ladies night at a certain joint..they want to go there, too. Steve HOrner is just ridiculous..stop trying to ruin everybody else's fun. Why don't he just stay home and stop being such a cry baby...Should I sue because I'm not allowed in the Men's bathroom? Stupidity.
This reminds me of the San Diego case a few years back. Two law students sued a club for the same reason and they won. They just wanted money, just like Horner.
March 4, 2008
3:20 p.m.
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Heidi writes:
I've eaten there, great ribs!
March 4, 2008
3:22 p.m.
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Jim writes:
Whipping boy?
A whipping boy, in feudal times, was a boy of the same age but lower rank raised with a prince or nobleman as a playmate, who was whipped in his place when the young nobleman -- too high in standing to be beaten by anyone below his father, who was often unavailable -- misbehaved or slacked in his studies, as a psychological 'indirect punishment'.
In modern times, the term has come to mean a scapegoat, or something that is a frequent recipient of undue pain, punishment or mistreatment, including inanimate objects. (Thanks Wiki)
March 4, 2008
3:32 p.m.
MrJim writes:
(This comment was removed by the site staff.)
March 4, 2008
3:34 p.m.
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davies writes:
Jim: Did you have to bring that up? You're going to get GWM and Jdub all excited.
March 4, 2008
4:09 p.m.
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Heidi writes:
mtnsurfer,
I do agree and sympathize with you. That's why I made the comment that a baseball game is not a place for small children. I think that is selfish of the parents, inconsiderate to others at the game, as well as disregard for the safety and comfort of the child.
March 4, 2008
4:16 p.m.
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Diff writes:
STUPID!
I can't believe he has won even one law suit - is not a PRIVATE business allowed to do, conduct business and charge whatever they choice to whoever they choice?
Of course you can't smoke in that private business anymore.
They could not have a Whites night with free drinks for all who are European WASPs and charge Blacks and chicanos?
What's next?
When will government get out of the peoples right to make choices?
I suspect - NEVER!
But we need some people with some sense of reason to take over!
March 4, 2008
4:44 p.m.
Suggest removal
GWM writes:
davies, it was removed before I saw it. Give me a flavor of what MrJim said. I want to be excited. The Packer thread pi$$ me off. I need a laugh.
March 4, 2008
4:59 p.m.
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davies writes:
Regarding 'guys night out' discussion: This sounds like a big crybaby complaining about little crybabies. A ballgame is a perfectly OK place to take little kids, provided the parent is reasonably responsible for them. It's not the ideal choice for a parent, since the entertainment is kind of lost on a little kid, but on the other hand I wouldn't think to complain about them just for being there either. Are the guys and little kids prohibited from sitting in certain sections on the so-called Ladies Nights? Sheesh.
March 4, 2008
5 p.m.
Suggest removal
GWM writes:
Chas, thanks for joining this comical thread. You grace us. Slow news day? Rosen not got your dander up? I am only kidding, I think you know I respect your posts.
It's actually solyent green. You don't usually make those mistakes, but I digress. I love your clip btw. I was really shocked at the end of the movie. Great movie. Could have been made by mmoore today.
So what are you talking about? We continually drive capitalism to a violation of someone's civil rights. Case in point is tobacco. I think capitalism and Jesse Helms has killed millions of people. Is that not a violation of everyone's civil rights. But that is capitalism at its worst along with the capitalists that market the crap we get from Hollywood and TV. But, and however, capitalism is the best show in town over socialism that is being sold by your ilk.
Are you just trying to be funny Charles? I bet that is it.
March 4, 2008
5:09 p.m.
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AKuser writes:
Anybody with a girlfriend or wife can benefit equally from this promotion, Mr. Horner clearly has neither.
March 4, 2008
5:27 p.m.
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nonayerbsns writes:
where is shawna nelson when you really need her? (oh, was that just TOO tacky?)
March 4, 2008
6:12 p.m.
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Mags writes:
No wonder Patty Calhoun and Westword named Horner "Schmuck of the Week." He is anti-feminist, try anti-fun. What a loser.
March 4, 2008
6:54 p.m.
Suggest removal
mtnrunner2 writes:
REBEL WITHOUT A CAUSE
Steve Horner's crusade is utterly pointless; he is righting a "wrong" that isn't.
There is no injustice in Ladies Night, just like there would be no injustice in Truckers Night, Tweed Wearers Night, or Lefties Night. Private businesses have the moral right to serve whoever they choose at whatever price they choose. Laws that permit silly lawsuits like those filed by Horner should be abolished.
March 4, 2008
7:41 p.m.
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blacksho89 writes:
feisty: Nothing is sexier than a woman you have to salute!
March 4, 2008
8:11 p.m.
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angryman1n writes:
Boo Hoo!!! Guess what? I got a free ticket. My guess if you had a girlfriend you might have gotten one too. All you had to do was get voucher. Then she turned in two, and I was in free.
Sorry dude. Too bad. (loser)
March 4, 2008
9:13 p.m.
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mrfxx writes:
Let's all join the party - surely everybody can pick a reason to sue.
Those of us who are single can sue when a team advertises for "Family Nights" (Avs, Rapids, Mammoth & Nuggets)
Those of us who have no children or are over 14 can sue because of age discrimination on "Kids" events at games (Rockies, Rapids, Colorado 14ers, Rocky Mountain Rage & Mammoth) - as can those of us who are not seniors when a club runs "Seniors" packages (Rockies)
By the way - the ladies can sue the Nuggets & Rockies for "Guys Night Out" events. While the Rockies this season have Wed "Ladies Night" events, they also have Tuesday "Guys Night out" events - specials for both have sold out! The Nuggets don't have a comparable "Ladies Night".
After all the bars/clubs that hold "Ladies Nights" are doing it to get more MEN in the clubs - because they have more women in the clubs. Men who are dating the women on Ladies Nights benefit as it is cheaper for their date that evening. Men trying to pick up the ladies also find it cheaper. It is a business decision to get both men & women in the doors - and a recognition that even today, women as a rule earn less than men.
If Mr Horner wanted TRUE equality he would work for equal pay for equal work - and then women wouldn't NEED price breaks. He would also work for equivalent prices for laundry/dry cleaning for plain women's blouses (vendors can tell because women's blouses button on the other side than men's shirts) - and having ironed both, most skirts are easier to iron than pants; many salons charge more for women's haircuts based on the assumption that a woman's hair is shorter (not always true - look at Jamie Lee Curtis); etc ad nauseum.
Plain & simple, Horner is a bitter, vindictive, jerk - who is still angry that one left him and he had to fight for custody of his kids and who decades later is punishing all women for what one woman did to him. Based on this behavior, I am guessing he will end up bitter & alone. I honestly wish the judges would nail this bozo for frivolous lawsuits.
March 4, 2008
9:42 p.m.
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GWBushwacked writes:
Oh, please. If it were Men got in free,all the Susan B Anthony's of the world would be up in arms too. Give me a break.
A woman's place:home, barefoot and pregnant :-)
March 5, 2008
12:53 a.m.
Suggest removal
arimom writes:
I have no problem with his stance to be honest. I look forward to having the opportunity to treat my beau to a "Guy's Night"- I think guys deserve this sometimes. I just happen to be one of those gals who appreciate all the changes male dominant legislatures have made for my well being. In urban areas, women my age out earn our male counterparts, get promoted more quickly, have more entitlements for our education, health care and social services. I am not blind to what he alludes to, and that is too much of our popular culture and marketing are hostile and demeaning to men. Take a look at the sitcoms or our our favorite women's mags. Heck, girls beating boys is a staple on the Disney Channel. They prosper by degrading and making jokes solely at the expense of men. I am a mother of two boys, and frankly the misandry I see is a disturbing social passion. I assure you, women would not tolerate the way men allow themselves to be treated and depicted. So, again, I can see his point. People are turned off perhaps by his activist approach, but that is the beauty of living in a democracy. So, you go boy.
March 6, 2008
10:28 a.m.
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fiesty writes:
blacksho89- unfortunately, I was enlisted. :-)
If ladies night is illegal, then what about senior discounts, kids menus, etc? Aren't they "discriminatory"?
March 6, 2008
10:29 a.m.
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cranzy59 writes:
I think that Steve is talking to the letter of the law, not the spirit in which it is written. Shame on our lawmakers to leave such a loophole that provides this soapbox and waste of time and resources. However reverse discrimination is a slippery slope and the hypocriacy does ring true. A law is a law...none too trivial to be ignored or passed over in the name of tradition. Mike Rosen attempted damage control on his radio program the day after his interview with Steve, where he trivialized Steves position and impaled himself the stake of tradition. Sorry Mike...but it really did appear to your audiance that you engaged in name calling then cut the discussion short with none of the usual explanations of being out of time. Bad timing....
March 6, 2008
11:55 a.m.
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cranzy59 writes:
feisty...btw discrimination based on age is only Illeagle when it applies to employment.
March 6, 2008
12:47 p.m.
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fiesty writes:
cranzy59- exactly. same applies here, except it's gender instead of discrimination.