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ELF sign left at mansion blaze

Originally published 08:22 a.m., March 3, 2008
Updated 01:50 p.m., March 3, 2008

Firefighters pour water onto burning houses at the scene where four multimillion dollar homes burned today in Woodinville, Wash., a suburb of Seattle. A sign with the initials of a radical environmental group was found at the scene, an official said.

Photo by Elaine Thompson/Associated Press

Firefighters pour water onto burning houses at the scene where four multimillion dollar homes burned today in Woodinville, Wash., a suburb of Seattle. A sign with the initials of a radical environmental group was found at the scene, an official said.

A sign with the initials of a radical environmental group was found at the scene, an official said.

Photo by Elaine Thompson, Associated Press

A sign with the initials of a radical environmental group was found at the scene, an official said.

In this image taken from KING-TV 5, a luxury home is shown burning this morning in Woodinville, Wash., a suburb north of Seattle. Crews battled fires at four multimillion-dollar show homes in the area, and a sign with the initials of the radical environmental group "Earth Liberation Front" was found at the scene, an official said.

Photo by KING-TV 5, Associated Press

In this image taken from KING-TV 5, a luxury home is shown burning this morning in Woodinville, Wash., a suburb north of Seattle. Crews battled fires at four multimillion-dollar show homes in the area, and a sign with the initials of the radical environmental group "Earth Liberation Front" was found at the scene, an official said.

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WOODINVILLE, Wash. — The radical environmental group responsible for the 1998 fires at Vail's Two Elks Lodge apparently has struck again — in the form of fires that gutted three multimillion-dollar show homes north of Seattle.

Crews battled fires early today at the homes in a suburb north of Seattle. A sign connected to the environmental group Earth Liberation Front was found at the scene, officials said.

The sign — with initials E.L.F. — mocked claims the luxury homes on the "Street of Dreams" were environmentally friendly, according to video images of the sign aired by KING-TV.

"Built Green? Nope black!" the sign said.

No injuries were reported in the fires, which began before dawn in the wooded subdivision and were still smoldering by midmorning. The Snohomish County sheriff’s office estimated damage at $7 million. In addition to the three homes destroyed, two sustained smoke damage. It was previously believed that four homes were destroyed.

The blazes are suspicious because they were set in multiple places in separate houses, said Chief Rick Eastman of Snohomish County District Seven.

Snohomish County District 7 Fire Chief Rick Eastman said crews removed explosive devices found in the homes, which burned as a federal jury in Tacoma was about to resume deliberations in the case of an alleged ELF activist, Briana Waters. Waters could face at least 35 years if convicted of helping to fire bomb the University of Washington’s Center for Urban Horticulture in 2001.

Kelvin Crenshaw, special agent in charge of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms in Seattle, later denied there was evidence that explosive devices had been used.

“There’s nothing in the message that ties (the Woodinville fires) to that separate, ongoing matter,” Seattle FBI Agent Fred

Gutt said. “We don’t know and we don’t want to speculate.”

Waters’ lawyer, Robert Bloom, asked the judge to declare a mistrial this morning, citing the possibility that the fires — and their ensuing publicity — could influence the jury. The judge refused.

“It is inconceivable that anybody who is supporting Briana’s case could have been responsible for this,” Bloom said.

The ELF, or Earth Liberation Front, is a loosely organized collection of radical environmentalists authorities say is responsible for other arsons in the Northwest.

Eleven members of ELF were indicted in early 2006 for the 1998 fires atop Vail Mountain and subsequent fires across several states.

Chelsea Gerlach, 30, was sentenced to nine years in prison for her role in the Vail fire, which she said was planned and carried out by members of an ELF sub-group called The Family.

Prosecutors said the group was responsible for 20 arsons across five states.

The fires caused more than $40 million in damage, including $12 million in damage at Vail.

Another ELF Family member arrested in connection with the fires, William Rodgers, killed himself in jail following his arrest in late 2005.

Gerlach told prosecutors that she, Rodgers and a third co-defendant, Stanislas Meyerhoff drove to Colorado in 1998, meeting up with other Family members. While most of them decided an arson was an impossible task, Gerlach and Rodgers stayed behind.

She dropped Rodgers off on the mountain one night, then waited as he ran across the ridgeline starting fires outside eight structures, including Two Elk Lodge.

While Gerlach apologized for being "so cavalier" for thinking violence and destruction can accomplish worthy goals, radical environmentalists continue to set fires, and to claim to be members of ELF.

The fires north of Seattle started at the "Street of Dreams," a strip of unoccupied, furnished luxury model homes where developers show off the latest in high-end housing, interior design and landscaping.

The homes -- none of which had been purchased -- are in a development near the headwaters of Bear Creek, which is home to endangered chinook salmon. Opponents of the development had questioned whether the luxury homes could pollute the creek and an aquifer that is a drinking water source, and whether enough was done to protect nearby wetlands.

“We are stunned by this event, and we thank God that each of the homes were unoccupied and that there were no apparent injuries,” Street of Dreams Inc. President John Heller said in a written statement.

The sign, a sheet with red scraggly letters, said "McMansions in RCDs r not green," a reference to rural cluster developments.

One of the people involved in the project said the homes used "green" techniques such as water-pervious sidewalks, super-insulated walls and windows and products made with recycled materials, such carpet pads.

"It's very disappointing to take a situation where we're tying to promote good building practices — Built Green practices — and that it's destroyed," said Doug Barnes, the Northwest division president of Centex Homes in Kirkland and the immediate past president of the Master Builders Association of King & Snohomish Counties.

The homes that burned were between 4,200 and 4,750 square feet in size, with prices up to nearly $2 million.

Waters, a 32-year-old violin teacher from Oakland, Calif., is accused of serving as a lookout while her friends planted a devastating fire bomb at the UW’s horticulture center in 2001.

No one was hurt in the UW arson, but the Center for Urban Horticulture was destroyed and rebuilt at a cost of $7 million. It was targeted because the ELF activists mistakenly believed researchers there were genetically engineering trees, investigators said.

Several supporters attended Waters’ three-week trial. The jury began deliberating Friday.

The Rocky's Bill Scanlon contributed to this report.

Comments

  • March 3, 2008

    8:25 a.m.

    Suggest removal

    rickg19611 writes:

    Typical enviro-whackos.

  • March 3, 2008

    8:40 a.m.

    Suggest removal

    nowhearthis writes:

    C'mon rickg, I know you've got a bigger imagination than that. Your "enviro-whackos" label is getting pretty played out.

    Burning houses? This totally disproves global warming.

  • March 3, 2008

    9:21 a.m.

    Suggest removal

    FlyfishDude52 writes:

    Can you say auto-da-fe? Wouldn't that make the punishment befit the crime?

  • March 3, 2008

    9:29 a.m.

    Suggest removal

    smith writes:

    Hopefully Seattle will follow the path of Vail: take the insurance money and make the homes three times bigger. Only to an "environmentalist" is burning down the environment a good thing.

  • March 3, 2008

    9:31 a.m.

    Suggest removal

    jeremynix writes:

    So they burn down houses, because they are angry about the homes not being built "environment friendly". Won't the developer just start building the houses again? Now they are just doubling the amount of resources used to build these homes. It doesnt make any sense to me. Maybe I'm just stupid.

  • March 3, 2008

    9:44 a.m.

    Suggest removal

    Theoldguy writes:

    Once again a very small minority is trying to change the will of the majority. Not much different than Muslim Terrorists. So.....Label them Internal Terrorists, round them up and quickly run them through the legal system and then execute them with natural sisal or in the case of being in the Pacific Northwest...hemp.

    As an aside.....In Colorado if you see someone attempting to set your house afire you can stop them with lethal force. Just be able to explain yourself in court. He had a big torch and I was afraid of being burned. Rather a simple reason.

  • March 3, 2008

    9:53 a.m.

    Suggest removal

    RickyLee writes:

    If these morons kill someone, execution's a great message to the other enviro-terrorists.

  • March 3, 2008

    9:53 a.m.

    Suggest removal

    timeandagain writes:

    Hopefully, the knuckleheads that did this will spend the rest of their lives with a whopping 1 hour a day on the "yard" to enjoy the Earth they love so much.... (and the rest of their time getting raped in their cell)...

  • March 3, 2008

    10:04 a.m.

    Suggest removal

    DahmersCookbook writes:

    These people need to find A different past-time like border control, they would get things done.

  • March 3, 2008

    10:10 a.m.

    Suggest removal

    ParkHillPosse writes:

    I don't support eco-terrorism or arson...but who in Colorado wouldn't like to burn down Highlands Ranch, Englewood, Park Meadows, Rock Creek and most of the hideously ugly new housing developments along Highway 36? I hate your lame ranch-style homes, overly make-upped wives, and your SUVs, you white-bread suburbanites.

  • March 3, 2008

    10:31 a.m.

    Suggest removal

    smith writes:

    Who wouldn't like to burn down Park Hill? If we took out that community and all points east, crime in metro Denver would plummet immediately. I hate their carbon footprints with their oversized old homes which arent energy effiecient and their SUV's parked in front of their large single family lots.

    First they came for the suburbs, next they'll come for you... jerk.

  • March 3, 2008

    10:37 a.m.

    Suggest removal

    nowhearthis writes:

    Don't get yourself in a tizzy, Bropous. ELF is definitely a bunch of selfish and self righteous people that send perception of environmentalists back 30 years.

    I was just getting at the fact that it just wouldn't be a rocky blog without rickg calling someone or something an "enviro-whacko."

    Can someone please stop Will Farrell from doing these things?

  • March 3, 2008

    10:55 a.m.

    Suggest removal

    rickg19611 writes:

    Oh no.... the PC crowd is starting to whine because the poor terrorists, aka ELF, are getting criticized for their terrorist actions.

    Lesson for the low IQ crowd.... if enviro-whackos would stop resorting to terrorist acts, then you wouldn't need to worry so much about their bad public relations image.

  • March 3, 2008

    11:03 a.m.

    Suggest removal

    Trythinking writes:

    If they are caught and convicted they should be sentenced to being at one with nature. Drop them off, buck naked, in the Alskan wilderness. There they can truly become one with nature. I'm sure nature will take care of them. They can help feed a grizzly.

  • March 3, 2008

    11:07 a.m.

    Suggest removal

    nowhearthis writes:

    The point is that there is a world of difference between someone who can admit that global warming is happening, and these ELF terrorists. PC really has nothing to do with it. If you can't make that distinction, then I guess that would put you in the "low IQ crowd."

    It makes as much sense as if I called all conservatives facists, all the time, for anything they do. Then I wouldn't actually be THINKING about an issue, I'd just be regurgitating a party line. Thats REALLY intelligent.

  • March 3, 2008

    11:10 a.m.

    Suggest removal

    hikingartist writes:

    Why on earth is RMN running this bit from Washington state? Oh that's right: this news outlet panders to, and stokes the flames, of their conservative readers.
    Well hey, I just heard a tree-hugger was double-parked in Vermont!

  • March 3, 2008

    11:27 a.m.

    Suggest removal

    SASQUATCH writes:

    Many libdems have tried to dismiss Barack Obama’s connections to far-left Weathermen terrorists Willliam Ayres and Bernadine Dohrn as saying that it was a one-time meeting which took place more than a decade ago. But it turns out that it was more than one time, and has happened a lot more recently than 1995.

    Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!

  • March 3, 2008

    11:32 a.m.

    Suggest removal

    Michael writes:

    "Why on earth is RMN running this bit from Washington state?" - hikingartist

    Are you really that big an a*@ or just trying to be funny? ELF burned down a lodge in Vail in 1998 and now they are burning down homes in Seattle? Are you simply freakin' blind to NOT see that connection or are you so blindly caught up in your support for these domestic terrorists of the left-wing, enviro-whacko persuasion that you do not want to see it? Put down the Kool-Aid buddy and join the real world where all of us can clearly see why this story has a Colorado connection and deserves front page status.

  • March 3, 2008

    11:37 a.m.

    Suggest removal

    hikingartist writes:

    Thanks for proving my point Michael.

  • March 3, 2008

    11:45 a.m.

    Suggest removal

    ezekiel777 writes:

    if you think al gore is right...then you agree with elf.....then

    you are a terrorist.

    stop the madness.

  • March 3, 2008

    11:46 a.m.

    Suggest removal

    davies writes:

    hikingartist: This story is also front page news on USA Today. Although I don't expect that fact to change the mind of a superior person who apparently needs everyone to know that he/she hikes and is an artist. Obviously you are more refined and your opinions are more worthy than any (sneer) "conservative readers". Thank you so much for gracing us with your elite thoughts from your most high moral vantage point.

  • March 3, 2008

    12:15 p.m.

    Suggest removal

    MTN_Frank writes:

    There is a sucker born every minute. Guilty until proven innocent? If you want to try a different look at what might be the 'real' story take a look at what happened to these 'envro-whackos'.

    http://www.judibari.org/

    Who benefits from this story about the houses getting burned, ELF?

  • March 3, 2008

    12:29 p.m.

    Suggest removal

    kathyM writes:

    Groups like ELF will spread their violence to even the most innocuous places--like auto parts stores, greenhouses/nurseries, and non-organic grocers. Employees and customers--regular people like you and me--could be hurt or killed. It's easy to say "too bad so sad" when a $2 million house gets burned down. But when your loved one gets scorched or killed for the sin of buying non-organic milk, you'll change your tune.

  • March 3, 2008

    1:35 p.m.

    Suggest removal

    pwern writes:

    Make no mistake - this ecoterrorist fanaticism starts in our universities. Add a radical environmentalism to moral relativism and the sum is an Eco-Nazi that thinks it's acceptable to express their narrow views through acts of violence - all in the name of the environment.

    I'd be willing to bet that CU-Boulder has at least three-dozen tenured professors who passively sympathize with the ELF, and probably a handful more that would come right out and publicly admit it if they thought they could do so without being lynched - Ward Churchill style - for voicing their warped views.

    If these ecoterrorists understood who the real villian is to the health and survival of our culture, they'd be firebombing faculty lounges instead of ski lodges.

  • March 3, 2008

    1:46 p.m.

    Suggest removal

    Dan2 writes:

    E.L.F. is a terrorist organization, and in my opinion, their whole entire existence is not based on what is best for earth, but jealousy of those that have achieved.

    What I find ironic in general, are those that are part of the "social elite" (those who want to have government provide at a "least common denominator" level) tend also to be the target of these terrorists. Imagine, if you all will for a moment, what the reaction would be if the highly over-market inflated homes in Boulder were targeted?

    ParkHillPosse,

    Maybe instead of your social and economical jealousy, you should go back to school, get an education, maybe a better paying job that would allow you to invest properly and then your ignorance wouldn't get in the way of your happiness? Just a suggestion, but if you are going to bitch about someone, maybe at least use proper grammar to do it ("overly make-upped " should be "overly made up"). Just because you can't afford to live in those locations, don't be jealous of those that can. Work on improving your situation instead of begrudging those that have done well.

  • March 3, 2008

    1:47 p.m.

    Suggest removal

    Lonestar writes:

    Think about the amount of toxins that were released into the environment due to these fires! If you claim to be an environmentalist, that doesn't make a whole lot of sense. These idiots are going to end up killing someone. They are already putting the lives of firefighters at risk. These terrorists belong in Guantanamo with the rest of them.

    By the way "nowhearthis", Fascism is rooted in Liberalism. Learn some history.

  • March 3, 2008

    2:03 p.m.

    Suggest removal

    Charles_B writes:

    pwern said:

    "If these ecoterrorists understood who the real villian is to the health and survival of our culture, they'd be firebombing faculty lounges instead of ski lodges."

    *Kill all of the teachers*. That'll guarantee the "survival of our culture".

    I suppose we can discern from this statement that gwern's "culture" is violent in pursuit of ignorance.

  • March 3, 2008

    2:17 p.m.

    Suggest removal

    RickyLee writes:

    "lynched"?!?

    pwern, let's remember that Wardo had TWO AND A HALF YEARS of due
    process, by LOTS of different committees and individuals all reviewing each others findings. Findings that were rather parallel,
    as I recall. You call that lynched? What do you call what happened to Tim Masters?

  • March 3, 2008

    2:25 p.m.

    Suggest removal

    Charles_B writes:

    Lonestar went looking for his knowledge in all the wrong places and came out with the ironic quote of the day:

    "Fascism is rooted in Liberalism. Learn some history."

    Let me guess what he's been reading:

    http://www.amazon.com/Liberal-Fascism...

    The historical record shows that fascist governments in both Italy and Germany shared a strong opposition to political and economic liberalism.

  • March 3, 2008

    2:28 p.m.

    Suggest removal

    superbad writes:

    Let's see, if I were a developer sitting on a bunch of expensive houses I couldn't sell after 8 months in a market that is only headed further down, would I be tempted to set fire to them? And what better way to deflect attention than to hang an ELF sign?

    I wouldn't be surprised if this story hasn't been fully told yet.

  • March 3, 2008

    2:38 p.m.

    Suggest removal

    Charles_B writes:

    NotChasB kindly provided some good advice regarding his postings:

    "DO NO READ THIS PART."

    It would make a good screen-name too. Like the warning on a pack of cigarettes.

  • March 3, 2008

    2:38 p.m.

    Suggest removal

    nowhearthis writes:

    Thank you for proving my point, Lonestar, about simply shouting out loaded words with little thought to their veracity. Blind hate is a powerful thing. I'm sure you had to change your knickers when you saw "Facism" and "Liberalism" together.

    Benito Mussolini defined fascism as being a collectivistic ideology in opposition to socialism, liberalism, democracy and individualism.

    Reading and thinking is fun!

    Also, thanks to Charles B

  • March 3, 2008

    3:25 p.m.

    Suggest removal

    davies writes:

    Superbad: Interesting thought; we'll have to wait and see.

  • March 3, 2008

    3:34 p.m.

    Suggest removal

    timeandagain writes:

    hikingartist -

    I think your screen name pretty much says it all.

    Smoke a bowl and take your easel back up to the mountains. Just make sure you stop by the welfare office to pick up your check because I can assure everyone that you are a "starving" hiking artist (and that is probably the big, bad conservative's fault - because you are REALLY talented, right?)...

  • March 3, 2008

    4:50 p.m.

    Suggest removal

    Lonestar writes:

    Let’s look at this in the context of the desires of the modern liberal. The modern liberal views the individual subordinate to the interests of the state, party or society as a whole. That fits in nicely with many readily available definitions of fascism. Socialism, populism and collectivism are also interchangeable within aspects of the current liberal or progressive agenda.

    Nazi is another word that liberals love to claim as their own to dispense out against anyone who dares to disagree with them. Nazi stood for “national socialist”, and again the liberal agenda contains socialism in spades. The connections go deeper than just the name. Don’t worry, I would never suggest that liberals have mass murder on their minds. The Nazi’s were rabid environmentalists, so perhaps the ELF would admire them for that? Charles B, thanks for putting the link to that book on your post. I have not read it, but it looks interesting. Maybe some other RMN readers will like it as well.

    Apperently liberals have cornered the market on ”thought” as well. That’s funny, being a liberal is about as mentally taxing as chewing gum. Nearly everything you see on TV or read in the newspaper tells you how you should think and act. I’ll try and put away my blind hate long enough to volunteer my time at my local food bank this weekend.

  • March 3, 2008

    5:46 p.m.

    Suggest removal

    jconder45 writes:

    Lonestar- "The Nazis were rabid environmentalists"

    HAHAHAHA- thank you for the biggest laugh I've had in awhile. Yeah, that's what the Nazis are known for, their environmentalism. They murdered 6 million developers, didn't they?

    Is there nothing you right-wing Texans won't believe?

  • March 3, 2008

    6:22 p.m.

    Suggest removal

    Lowtaxequalsfreedom writes:

    Charles B,

    You say historical fascist opposed economical and social liberalism. Fine you are correct. Do you know what economical and social liberalism of the day was? Today groups like the Independence Institute, Cato, FFF, FFE , some conservative groups and most old school Republicans most closely represent yesteryear liberalism. Today’s liberals most closely represent yesteryears fascist. Labels changes, idealologys never do. So yes the book liberal fascism is 100% correct.

  • March 3, 2008

    6:30 p.m.

    Suggest removal

    nowhearthis writes:

    Just to clarify some more big words, national socialism refers to a nationalistic, homogenous identity which resulted from the chaotic state that WWI left Germany. In other words uber-patriotism and flag waving, if you aren't like us, if you aren't of pure German blood, we will eradicate you.

    This party was the antithesis of the communists, and both were dedicated to the other's destruction. Although it has the word "socialism" in the name, it has nothing to do with the socialism you would like to attribute to the "modern liberal."

    C'mon, you're making this stuff up, right?

  • March 3, 2008

    7:07 p.m.

    Suggest removal

    Charles_B writes:

    Lonestar conflated:

    "Nazi stood for “national socialist”, and again the liberal agenda contains socialism in spades."

    Nazism--a form of fascism--stood in strong opposition to both political and economic liberalism. Do you deny this? A rhetorically motivated and superficial understanding of Nazism has caused you to trumpet superfluous semantics and ignore the underlying principles it embodied.

    It's important to understand terms before you start flinging them around.

    Never heard of the Doughy Pantload's book before eh?

    http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/ind...

    ...

  • March 3, 2008

    7:21 p.m.

    Suggest removal

    Gene writes:

    Old buddy hikingartist;
    Recall, Ted Kaczynski, "the unabomber" - the nutcase who lived in the woods in a shack without wiring or plumbing and thought he was doing someones work killing people with package bombs. . . Just when I thought you were coming around to the benefits of capitalism.

  • March 3, 2008

    7:30 p.m.

    Suggest removal

    jconder45 writes:

    Charles_B- Rush Limbaugh says that kind of stuff all the time. I'm sure that's where Lonestar is getting it.

  • March 3, 2008

    7:38 p.m.

    Suggest removal

    Gene writes:

    Would recommend Jonah Goldberg's new book, "Liberal Fascism"

  • March 3, 2008

    7:48 p.m.

    Suggest removal

    Charles_B writes:

    LowTaxEqualsDeficites:

    Economic liberalism is a hands-off deregulated approach to economics such as favored by libertarian groups and claimed as a plank but never enacted by Republicans. I said nothing of social liberalism as you implied. *Political* liberalism is antithetical to totalitarianism which is a hallmark of fascism.

    Your fallacious argument is based on a conflation of two terms with completely different meanings--liberalism and socialism.

    If you identify with classical liberalism why do you clap when your ignorant media proxies spit the word "liberal" like an epithet?

    There is no such thing as "modern liberalism" as distinct from "classical liberalism" as you would have it--try as you might to conjure it as rhetorical ammunition.

    Individual freedom is not anathema to modern progressivism--the term you're searching for--it's quite the opposite.

    The meaning of the words are what they are, try as you might to bend them to fit your flawed premise.

  • March 3, 2008

    9:27 p.m.

    Suggest removal

    Lonestar writes:

    Charles_B, your points appear to be intelligent and well thought out. I’ll bet Adolph would have put you in charge of propaganda.

    In all seriousness, we are all Americans and none of us are either Fascists or Nazis. I’m sure that many of our own family members fought against and perhaps even died while defending our freedom against these groups. What drives me crazy is when these terms are so cavalierly thrown at someone with an opposing viewpoint. In my experience, this is done primarily by liberals. By the way I’m not from Texas, I’m from Aurora. If anyone called me either of those words to my face, I would do them like Kimbo.

  • March 3, 2008

    11:16 p.m.

    Suggest removal

    Charles_B writes:

    Lonestar said:

    "What drives me crazy is when these terms are so cavalierly thrown at someone with an opposing viewpoint. In my experience, this is done primarily by liberals."

    Let's revue his comment that started this discussion of fascism:

    "By the way "nowhearthis", Fascism is rooted in Liberalism. Learn some history."

    Self aware much?

  • March 4, 2008

    10:05 a.m.

    Suggest removal

    Shaupeen writes:

    Tree-hugging terrorists.

  • March 4, 2008

    10:50 a.m.

    Suggest removal

    Lonestar writes:

    I was referring back to the comment from "nowhearthis", who mentioned conservative fascists. That post was long before my first post.

    In all fairness, the word fascist was first mentioned by "bropous" who listed the term "green fascist" when describing the ELF.

  • March 4, 2008

    11:31 a.m.

    Suggest removal

    Charles_B writes:

    Lonestar:

    nowhearthis mentioned fascism in the context of trying to explain the idiocy of categorizing people--such as conservatives--as "fascist".

    So we have two people on this thread applying to term generically as an epithet and they are both presumably "conservatives". That kind of flies in the face of your opinion that "liberals" are generally the ones flinging the term around speciously.

  • March 4, 2008

    1:05 p.m.

    Suggest removal

    Lonestar writes:

    What “nowhearthis” wrote was “It makes as much sense as if I called all conservatives fascists, all the time, for anything they do…”. That implies to me that he/she considers some conservatives fascists, or at least considers fascism in line with conservatism.

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