Survey: Colorado 29th worst for oil, gas business
Gargi Chakrabarty
Published June 26, 2008 at 4:11 p.m.
Critics had a field day Thursday with a new survey that ranked Colorado as the 29th-worst place to do oil and gas business - six months after a previous survey showed the state was the best in the world.
The Global Petroleum Survey 2008 released Thursday by the Fraser Institute in Calgary, Alberta, found that Colorado ranked on par with Pakistan, Ukraine and Indonesia in terms of investment potential.
It attributed Colorado's sudden fall from the No. 1 rank to Gov. Bill Ritter's efforts to overhaul oil and gas drilling rules.
"Survey respondents were very concerned with Colorado's changes to drilling-permit requirements and other more stringent regulations," said Gerry Angevine, the institute's senior economist. "The Colorado Oil and Gas Association estimates the new rules could increase drilling costs by $60,000 to $600,000 per well."
Mike King, deputy director of the Colorado Department of Natural Resources, said the survey's timing was curious, given that the industry is fighting the state over the proposed rules.
"The Fraser Institute is funded by the industry and I'd guess the institute took serious heat over their conclusion in December that Colorado has an extraordinarily friendly regulatory structure," King said.
King doubted that the industry was getting "cold feet" in view of many ongoing investments.
For instance, giants such as BP and Schlumberger have committed hundreds of millions of dollars in investment. The state's approval of drilling permits is on track to set a record, and companies are spending millions to build new pipelines to carry local gas production to other states.
The survey was based on feedback from executives and managers of upstream petroleum companies in 81 jurisdictions, including states and nations.
COGA President Meg Collins said the survey indicates "the Ritter administration is sending a clear message to natural gas and oil companies that Colorado is closing its doors on them."
chakrabartyg@RockyMountainNews.com or 303-954-2976
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June 27, 2008
3:22 a.m.
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windbourne writes:
hmmmm. Hank/Sasquatch, what exactly does Alternative Energy ppl have to do with the oil industry? Why would they influence ritter on these issues? Why do idiots like you fear AE? Do not like low cost power?
I am certain that neo-cons like you prove that our education system IS broken. But of course, W. went to private school that was more than 150% paid for (had to be since he did not have the grades for either). So private school must be broken as well.
June 27, 2008
4:59 a.m.
Suggest removal
liquidone writes:
The dems will never stop until all profit is removed from corporate America and redistributed to their elitist friends.
Here is another fine piece of legislation from the Ritter administration designed to do the same thing to the multi-family housing industry.
http://www.leg.state.co.us/CLICS/CLIC...
It's going to be a sad and destructive number of years for business in Colorado until the people wake up and remove these fools from our state and Federal government.
Any bets on what the Colorado dems are going to destroy next?
June 27, 2008
6:44 a.m.
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roger44 writes:
The Politicians are just looking at the record profits in oil. If and when the congress gets off their dead butts and changes the way speculators do business, it may change. Then Colorado will see the impact when oil goes down. They hung their hopes on ethanol and that's working real well, really helped bring down prices didn't it? Brazil has shown it can be done, use sugar cane, but no, have to subsidize the farmers and ethanol plants, we pay twice, at the pump and in taxes.
June 27, 2008
6:52 a.m.
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BikerChick writes:
..
ASK YOURSELF; HOW DID THE THE USA TURN AROUND THE WW-II MESS SO QUICKLY ?
It's all about urgent, can-do teamwork and world-class strategic planning. While Colorado pretends otherwise, we have neither.
It is impossible for this issue to be resolved until bright people on both sides of the political picture stop behaving based upon emotions, myths and politics. Government leaders must learn to play well together WITH private corporations... the folks who actually make good things happen.
Long-term solutions only succeed when private companies work industriously, exploring many parallel approaches, and government works side-by-side to smooth the way. Strategic efforts require patience and perseverence.
When the anti- crowd writes the rules, we all lose. We need a long-term strategic solution, AND - in parallel - a short-term approach to keep the economic engine running smoothly. Like it or don't, the near-term solution is based upon clean-coal and petroleum products. Denying the obvious is at root-cause here.
The political squabbling is driving away business and messing up the coal and petroleum harvesting in Colorado. These clowns are oblivious to the big picture; the drilling and refinery processes are one hundred times more safe and clean this year than ten years ago.
It is governmental ignorance, bias, and bigotry that the business and petroleum folks are railing against. Working together, the elephants and donkeys can quickly turn that around.
To do that, they must quickly learn to play well together.
Will they ?
..
June 27, 2008
6:52 a.m.
Suggest removal
VVVV writes:
Alternative energy is anything but low cost. Alternative energy is the most expensive method of producing electricity, with the exception of hydroelectric (which is of course off limits for new development to save the fish and rocks). Coal is off limits. Nuclear is off limits. All that is left is gas - to heat your homes and turn on your lights. Make gas more expensive and we all hurt. With gas prices being record breaking and highly volatile, we could easily see a repeat of the rolling blackouts in California, only this time it won't be corporate corruption that can be quickly handled, it will be political interference that never acts quickly, never is held accountable, and never learns.
June 27, 2008
7:02 a.m.
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dukeco1 writes:
Liquidone;
Maybe the Colo. Repubs?
June 27, 2008
7:06 a.m.
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jacka writes:
Business Democrat government turns out to be equal to 3rd world countries in terms of business environment. On top of this, they want to tax these guys!
Colorado Promise = failure for Colorado Citizens
June 27, 2008
7:11 a.m.
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Cabermon writes:
Sasquatch, I agree with you, but a correction: Ritter and Salazar are enviroPHILES since they profess to love the environment. They are businessPHOBES since they hate business and capitalism. PHILE is love; PHOBE, as in phobia, is to hate.
June 27, 2008
7:28 a.m.
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parker805 writes:
phobe also means "to fear" as in "they fear the oil and gas businesses are raping us with record profits"
June 27, 2008
7:33 a.m.
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Cliffjumper writes:
Windbourne:
Get a clue, no one is against alternative energy. We are against nut jobs who would shut off our only readily available energy streams early when these new technologies are not fully deployable. Only Hybrid technology is in any position to create a mass influence and it is still heavily dependent on fossil fuels. Battery technology for fully electric automobiles does not exist yet, home heating by electricity is not ready as well. So, when our idiot Governor wants to chase away "evil" oil companies from the state, some of us take offense. A vote for Ritter is not a mistake I shall make twice. I like having a job and being free to drive to the mountains with my family. Ritter seems only interested in chasing jobs away. for example: Intel, Raytheon, HP only for starters. Now the Oil industry that is revitalizing the western communities in the State. What a moron. I am so hoping for a recall on this Nazi!
June 27, 2008
7:41 a.m.
Suggest removal
Cliffjumper writes:
Ricky Lee:
What does it cost to employ a crew, shut down production, re-start production for three months while they wait for the end of prairie dog mating season? Add fees? and new Permit requirements that duplicate previous studies required by other departments? Mmmmm. I would think $600,000 would be on the low side. Not too strong in Math, must have spent a lot of time in the liberal sciences (pot tent).
June 27, 2008
8:11 a.m.
Suggest removal
jmkratt writes:
Rickylee -
Of course it is fact.
Have you followed the hearing at all? All sides agree to it.
Hardly BS.
June 27, 2008
8:18 a.m.
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nicktaste writes:
look its all the typical knob slobbers of the right here in force
leave to the ill informed
these "rankings" come from 400 top executives in the oil & gas industry
It is an OBVIOUS ploy, an attempt to put political preasure on colorado's democratic majority
if it works, 6 months down the road, we will be right up there toward the top again
--------------------------------------------------------------
regulating how these massive enviromental rapists do business is in the best interests of the citizens of colorado , as opposed to letting them have their free for all
they could drain every drop of oil & gas from colorado that would not be enough to affect the global price
--------------------------------------------------------------
remember good ol' exxon valdez?
"On 23 May 2007, the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals denied ExxonMobil's request for a third hearing and let stand its ruling that Exxon owes $2.5 billion in punitive damages. Exxon then appealed to the Supreme Court, which agreed to hear the case.[15] On February 27, 2008, the Supreme Court heard oral arguments for 90 minutes. Justice Samuel Alito, who owns between $100,000 and $250,000 in Exxon stock, recused himself from the case.[16] In a decision issued June 25, 2008, Justice David Souter issued the judgement of the court, vacating the $2.5 billion award and remanding the case back to a lower court, finding that the damages were excessive with respect to maritime common law. Exxon's actions were deemed "worse than negligent but less than malicious."[17] The judgement limits punitive damages to the compensatory damages, which for this case were calculated as $507.5 million.[18] Some lawmakers, such as Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Patrick J. Leahy, have decried the ruling as "another in a line of cases where this Supreme Court has misconstrued congressional intent to benefit large corporations."[17]"
hmm so they got off having to pay for the majority of the damages
"judgement limits punitive damages to the compensatory damages, which for this case were calculated as $507.5 million"
big oil wins again (while the local area was devastated and still has not recovered)
June 27, 2008
8:21 a.m.
Suggest removal
nicktaste writes:
"they could drain every drop of oil & gas from colorado that would not be enough to affect the global price"
i had to post the above statement twice.. it appears to remove almost all legs the above pathetic arguments stand on
June 27, 2008
8:26 a.m.
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Bob299 writes:
The survey was based on feedback from executives and managers of upstream petroleum companies in 81 jurisdictions i.e. people who make the big bucks in oil and gas development. Of course, they are going to cry foul. What a joke!
Where's are the ranking showing where Colorado falls for education funding, etc?
June 27, 2008
8:32 a.m.
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nicktaste writes:
"Grades publicly released for George W. Bush at Yale (1964-1968) apparently differ from grade records for Bush stored in his residential hall on campus. The published grades are better than the grades stored in earlier records."
must be some kind of left wing conspiracy because there IS NO WAY BUSH would lie about his performance
June 27, 2008
8:35 a.m.
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rickg19611 writes:
The natural outcome of voting for Democrats.
But don't worry.... the low IQ crowd that are defending Ritter and crew, are confident that Ritter's plan to destroy the oil and gas industry will save it. Sort of like the Democrat run Vietnam war style strategy of "destroying the village to save it".
June 27, 2008
8:35 a.m.
Suggest removal
JB82 writes:
if 60 - 600k per well in additional drilling costs scares away the industry then those industry officials must really be running on tight margins right? Even the high number (600k) is a drop in the bucket to what the industry stands to make for sinking those wells. "Curious" timing is right, when the Oil and Gas Commission is holding public hearings about making those new rules. And the reason Colorado was number 1 - the 87.5% property tax credit against severance taxes which no other state (to my knowledge) allows! The tax credit is still in place while every state around us does not provide it. Utah has a lower tax rate, but not when adjusted for the credit. The system hasn't changed at all, and it is a survey being answered by a bunch of industry businessmen trying to influence rule making. "Curious" timing is right, people need to think these things out.
June 27, 2008
8:36 a.m.
Suggest removal
Darwin writes:
RickyLee; reread the article. The cost increase is $60,000 (from $540,000 to $600,000) not a cost increase from $60,000 to $600,000.
June 27, 2008
8:45 a.m.
Suggest removal
Madre2 writes:
Sasquatch: It's Luddites, and not "ludites." Do you even know the origin of that word? The British textile artisans who gave rise to that word have been dead for for about 200 hundred years. The term has been adopted in recent years to describe someone who objects to new technology and social progress. In that case, they would be neo-Luddites.
June 27, 2008
9:10 a.m.
Suggest removal
greenleaf writes:
Madre2,
The term "Luddites" is frequently misused in these forums. No one misuses the term more frequently than our resident hairy ape Sasquatch. The joke is on him as he rejects new technologies in nearly every posting he writes. I hope that it never sinks in because it makes me laugh every time!
June 27, 2008
9:21 a.m.
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ColoradoFan writes:
sasquatch, u r dumb.
June 27, 2008
9:28 a.m.
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Shaggy writes:
Hey Ritter,
Don't worry about being ranked 29th.
I think we rank first with your many many tax increases and sanctuary city policies.
Just one more reason on a long list why you will be a one term Governor.
June 27, 2008
9:45 a.m.
Suggest removal
jay writes:
pjmama is absolutely right...the cost of oil has driven costs for everydayy americans through the roof on a number of different fronts...causing real wages to largely stagnate under the republican reign.
she's right that policy needs to change.
we need to change the leadership that have brought us the policies that have horribly devalued the dollar...driving up the cost of oil. we need to kick the folks out whose policies have further and needlessly destabilized the middle east...driving up the cost of oil. we need to cast a vote for the folks who would make sure that we increase domestic production by drilling here, drilling now on the land that is approved and waiting for development.
i agree wholeheartedly, pjmama...time for some policy changes on a very global scale...rather than just scapegoating one small governor, right?
June 27, 2008
10:08 a.m.
Suggest removal
jbowen43 writes:
HOW DID THE THE USA TURN AROUND THE WW-II MESS SO QUICKLY ?
By stealing natural resources wherever we could with zero regard for the consequences.
June 27, 2008
10:10 a.m.
Suggest removal
MattGuyver_007 writes:
Democrats... Republicans... Diet Coke / Diet Pepsi. Give the people someone who is going to STOP SPENDING & STOP GROWING our government!
Why does Ritter need to meddle with the permit process? Don't worry, you'll get your money when the wells start producing.
June 27, 2008
10:14 a.m.
Suggest removal
Shaggy writes:
PJ,
They love living in a dooms day blame it all on America world.
Remember when they encouraged everyone to drink bottled water because tap water was bad for us?
Now they are encouraging us to drink tap water because bottled water is bad for the enviro.
Just wait until they start the massive man made global warming hoax tax on everyone.
You are right, they are not happy unless they are miserable and they want to make DAMN sure everyone else is miserable too.
Did I mention they love the high gas prices just like their plastic rock star loves high gas prices.
Not sure if you or anyone else has read the difference between Liberals and Conservatives but it is spot on and worth a read.
http://www.merinews.com/catFull.jsp?a...
jay why don't you give it a read too.
June 27, 2008
10:19 a.m.
Suggest removal
O_TRAIN writes:
PP - since you are obviously being obtuse, a Sasquatch is described as an alleged ape-like creature.
Nice try with the whole "racial" thing though.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sasquatch
June 27, 2008
10:23 a.m.
Suggest removal
timeandagain writes:
Nicely done Bill Ritter!!! That is the most significant impact you have had since taking office!!!! (Unfortunately it is a NEGATIVE impact - but, hey, its a start...)
BILL RITTER = JIMMY CARTER!
June 27, 2008
10:32 a.m.
Suggest removal
soccermom writes:
Colorado is sending a clear message that companies doing business here will be held accountable for the mess they make. Of course they are changing their stories by the minute. Do you know that the oil and gas people are sending letters to some of the folks that spoke at the hearing on Monday? They are trying to intimidate anyone who disagrees with them and it is despicable. Just one look at the map of the energy corridors being built will convince you that they have no intention of leaving Colorado. They are having record profits and don't want to give up a penny more if they can scare you into supporting them.
I'm glad that our Governor has a backbone.
Have to get back to business, self employed, so no, I'm not doing this on company time. Will jump in again later. Maybe.
June 27, 2008
10:35 a.m.
Suggest removal
Shaggy writes:
timeandagain,
That is simply not true.
His property tax freeze that was ruled unconstitutional was another failure.
June 27, 2008
10:38 a.m.
Suggest removal
dothan writes:
Why do Liberals love misery so much? This is a constant puzzle to me. I enjoy life and want others to be able to enjoy their lives. I look at the Old conservative US, free, fun, and productive. The liberal opposite, the USSR, well didn't work so well. I will put my freedom loving dream ahead of your misery oppression fantasy any day. Is there such a thing as a liberal that likes America? They say they do, but always try to tear it down in the name of global concern. Stalin was such a fool, and here in this forum we have many of his useful fools present.
June 27, 2008
10:39 a.m.
Suggest removal
Shaggy writes:
He also failed to send the man to prison for exposing his agriculture trespass practices to illegals.
Soccermom, he has no back bone..he is a puppet to special interest groups.
What was the very first thing he did when elected?
Gave Unions more power...why?
Because they are the ones who got him elected.
TaxRitter is nothing BUT a puppet to special interest groups.
Back bone...hahaha
June 27, 2008
10:47 a.m.
Suggest removal
dothan writes:
Soccermom:
Self employed liberal, you mean welfare right (forms do take some effort to fill out). Ritter's only backbone is for eliminating jobs, economic production, and freedoms. Interesting that the job report showed the only significant increase in employment was in the energy and public sectors. Without the production from the oil and gas industry who would pay for all the free rider public jobs. Like I said before "useful fools"!
June 27, 2008
11:06 a.m.
Suggest removal
jay writes:
Thanks shaggy/dothan for our daily dose of far right wing talking points straight from rush/rosen.
"They love living in a dooms day blame it all on America world"
"Just wait until they start the massive man made global warming hoax tax on everyone."
"they are not happy unless they are miserable and they want to make DAMN sure everyone else is miserable too."
"they love the high gas prices"
"Why do Liberals love misery so much?"
"Is there such a thing as a liberal that likes America? They say they do, but always try to tear it down in the name of global concern."
"Stalin was such a fool, and here in this forum we have many of his useful fools present."
"[Ritter] also failed to send the man to prison for exposing his agriculture trespass practices to illegals."
"[Ritter] has no back bone"
"Ritter's only backbone is for eliminating jobs, economic production, and freedoms."
come on guys, you can do a little better than this drivel.
why don't you tell us with which of ritter's decisions concerning the oil and gas industry you disagreed.
June 27, 2008
11:09 a.m.
Suggest removal
dothan writes:
Big D:
Mmmmm take wind turbines, obviously they cost so little to build that the investment will be paid back in a year at most. Without all the tax credits, grants, forced subsidies from traditional power plants, they would still be profitable.
Alaska, "thousands of acres lost to crude" Mmm... have you been there? Where a 100 yard square can produce from a 25 mile underground area, so clear the oil companies want to destroy every bit of environment. The studies that show Caribou herds thriving because of the warmth of the pipelines must also be a conspiracy, Berkley how dare you for researching that.
It is also so clear that to make that gas you can not afford, more affordable we should increase the costs on the companies making it. That could not come back to tax us at the pump, could not in a hundred years happen. After all the holy messiah Obama would not let it. He would waive his hand over my tank and make it full! Obama and his useful fools can not be constrained by something as crude as reality. They are above it, to question it should be a capital crime! No one can question the Obama and his followers like Ritter. I feel so relieved about my future don't you?
June 27, 2008
11:16 a.m.
Suggest removal
dothan writes:
Jay:
Hard to argue with all those pesky points isn't it. Let's play fair and throw out the rest of reality. There...done! Why Jay you were right all along! The world is so great! No cars, no people, no jobs to have to go to, only unspoiled wilderness! Marvelous!
That was fun for me how about you? Why would I be upset with Ritter for calling for repetitive testing, forms, and red tape to an industry that is bringing jobs and prosperity to our state. How could I, obviously they are evil, the government does not own them after all.
June 27, 2008
11:19 a.m.
Suggest removal
ekim writes:
Bob299:
Let's see how we do on education when our severance and property tax revenues plummet as the price of Natural Gas sees a correction sometime in the next 5 years and companies abandon Colorado to concentrate on the highest margin fields, because regulation and increased taxes have wiped out the marginal profit of drilling.
Don't be under any illusions Colorado is a marginal drilling area that is financially viabile only in a moderate to high price environment. There are single gas wells in the state of Texas that produce as much gas as 50 wells in Colorado. There is alot of resource here, but it takes alot of wells and therefore alot of incremental investment to get the resource out.
I don't know how many times I've heard that "They've go too much invested to leave the state." These companies have relatively little invested in the resource itself, their investment is in the incremental drilling and pipeline construction required to bring the resource to market. If it becomes too expensive to drill and build pipelines they will slow down or stop investment the gas won't come to market and the state won't have any gas sale revenue for severance taxes and no resource value for property taxes.
It is silly to talk about increasing education funding on one hand while destroying one of the primary investment mechanisms that creates the funding. That mechanism is the local property taxes that increase and decrease with the viability of the mineral resource. If you make the gas undelivarable the value of the resource plummets and property taxes are reduced accordingly.
Is this North Korea or Colorado? I'm beginning to have trouble determining the difference as both places have mountains and the government attitude toward capitialism appears to be the same.
June 27, 2008
11:22 a.m.
Suggest removal
jay writes:
"Why Jay you were right all along! The world is so great! No cars, no people, no jobs to have to go to, only unspoiled wilderness!"
why do the crazy ones always start throwing up strawman arguments when cornered.
dothan....you've offered nothing but far right wing talking points and conspiracy theories.
let me ask you a question.
if we can drill here, drill now right now...should we?
June 27, 2008
11:30 a.m.
Suggest removal
jaymoveonorg writes:
wait until they begin to move the wind turbine manufacturing plant to China, because it is cheaper to build. Poof no more jobs. Comparing the tens of thousands of jobs that oil and gas brings to this state to the few hundred that wind and solar bring is a joke.
Oil prices are going up. Natural gas prices are going up. I want our government to keep the environment clean but instead of letting oil and gas companies drill the Democrats are telling them when and where they can do it. If energy prices keep going up and you stand in the way of production of oil and gas domestically you will lose in November.
OBAMA AND RITTER PLEASE KEEP DOING WHAT YOU ARE DOING. I WILL EVEN GIVE YOU SOME MORE ROPE IF YOU WANT?
June 27, 2008
11:35 a.m.
Suggest removal
jay writes:
"I want our government to keep the environment clean but instead of letting oil and gas companies drill the Democrats are telling them when and where they can do it. "
mwhinecek...didn't we establish this as a myth yesterday?
do we really have to go through that whole exercise again?
can i just cut and paste the stuff from the last couple of days instead?
June 27, 2008
11:36 a.m.
Suggest removal
jaymoveonorg writes:
I am surprised you can find the time from worshiping your "Obama Shrine" to bless us with your spin.
June 27, 2008
11:38 a.m.
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jaymoveonorg writes:
Here is some rope jay. Keeping feeding us the same drivel and I can actually have some hope McCain will win in November and Ritter will be out of office sooner than later.
Gas and electricity prices are going to go through the roof and no matter how you spin it jay you will lose.
June 27, 2008
11:42 a.m.
Suggest removal
gkh writes:
What a load of BS - There are several billion dollars worth of capital improvement projects that the gas companies are currently undertaking or have recently completed, including 3 massive gas processing refineries. The prospect for increased regulation would have been on the radar for these company execs. the day that political polls showed Ritter likely to be re-elected, yet they have still moved forward with these projects. So we are to believe Colorado was ranked #1 in December and then 6 months later it's 29th??? Horsesh-t- do they think we're that stupid??? - By the commments, apparently some of you are...
We foot the bill for infrastructure so they can make huge profits and then they pick up and leave as soon as they have wasted the land:
NORTHWEST COLORADO SOCIOECONOMIC TASK FORCE
COMPLETES STUDY
RIFLE, CO – A report that addresses the state of socioeconomic conditions along Colorado’s western slope was released today during an announcement at the State Capitol.
The study forecasts that the population of Garfield, Mesa, Moffat and Rio Blanco counties will double within the next 30 years. It also suggests that revenues from natural resource extraction will be substantial, but up to a $1.4 billion shortfall may exist for needed capital improvements that would sustain the population necessary to support the energy industry at projected activity levels.
Read it yourself -
http://www.agnc.org/reports/08-socioe...
June 27, 2008
11:45 a.m.
Suggest removal
jay writes:
yes gas and electricity prices have been going through the roof for quite some time now, whinececk...but you can't lay the blame for that at the feet of the dems. the republicans have been in power for 8 years my friend...take some accountability for their actions.
the dems are all for drilling here, drilling now...they just want the oil companies to develop some of the already approved land at their disposal instead of chopping up environmentally sensitive areas.
i don't see the problem. why should we allow the oil companies to stockpile these leases while asking for more?
as i've said earlier...i'd even let them keep some of the corporate welfare if they start breaking new ground on some of the land already in the queue.
at the same time i'd like to see us leverage our SOR's...giving both opec and the speculators motivation to move in ways favorable to our country.
hell...at the same time, why don't we address some of the policies that have devalued the dollar and destabilized the middle east?
then we can shift some of the rest of that corporate welfare for the oil companies towards alternative energy research and development...and oh my gosh...we have a comprehensive, relatively inexpensive, common sense plan for lowering fuel costs AND spurning a movement towards alternative energy.
the horror.
June 27, 2008
12:25 p.m.
Suggest removal
nicktaste writes:
there must be alot of oil & gas represenatives here
your pathetic attempts at trying to change the majorities opinions sure are humorous and desperate
all this blame on ritter because 400 oil & gas guys have a study
your not fooling me
as a matter of fact, the downward turn in the economy is directly attributable to neocon administration of these past 8 years
1 more thing, morons, fools here try to equate socialism with fascist communism, but they are polar opposites
the answer is what the rest of the 1st world countries are doing "A parliamentary system"
here is a map to put it into perspective
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Fo...
also try to remember these countries tend to have socialized medicine and eductation (as opposed to the american indentured servitude model that comes with the high balance loans associated with schooling and healthcare)
also a large deal of these nations have A TRADE SURPLUS (as opposed to our worlds largest DEFICIT)
I always ask this question to you right wingers:
"name another 1st world country in the world that DOES NOT have socialized medicine"
and just because you have socialized medicine/ healthcare and your government looks after the environment DOES NOT MAKE YOUR COUNTRY SOCIALIST! IDIOTS
June 27, 2008
12:28 p.m.
Suggest removal
davies writes:
Well folks, excuse me if someone else has already made this point, but this is a category in which I don't think we should WANT to be "number 1". I mean, think about it: out of 81 jurisdictions, including states AND nations, Colorado was the best place in the world to drill, according in industry executives and managers? Sounds like our dumb-a$$ state wasn't getting anywhere near a normal share of revenue for all the drilling going on. And now with the new rules, there are still 52 out of 81 jusrisdictions that are rated worse? Sounds like we have established a pretty reasonable policy to me.
I am pro-business, no fan of Ritter, and in favor of developing new petroleum sources include off-shore and ANWR. But I don't see any reason why Colorado should be the absolute cheapest place to drill in the world. This business does affect government services, after all. Sounds like Colorado was almost a laughingstock to the industry.
June 27, 2008
12:30 p.m.
Suggest removal
mytwosense writes:
gkh: "So we are to believe Colorado was ranked #1 in December and then 6 months later it's 29th??? Horsesh-t- do they think we're that stupid???"
No, but they're banking that most readers will be ignorant of the fact that the source of this survey, The Fraser Institute, is a notoriously rightwing "free" market think tank.
This survey is nothing more than a hit job on Ritter, plain and simple.
SHAME on the Rocky Mountain News for a headline that frames such a biased piece of propaganda as a legitimate source of information.
June 27, 2008
12:31 p.m.
Suggest removal
jay writes:
well put davies.
June 27, 2008
12:34 p.m.
Suggest removal
nicktaste writes:
davies, i am very surprised that we agree on something
hell must have frozen over
June 27, 2008
12:36 p.m.
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davies writes:
Hey nicktaste, speaking of socialized medicine, I just read about Japan's socialized medicine system having a new mandate: All men and women age 40 and up have to have their waistlines measured at least once a year. Men with waistlines over 33.5" and women with waistlines over 35.5" have to go to counseling about obesity issues. No kidding - this was in US News and World Report.
Hah! I'd love to see some of our fatties here in the USA be told by the government to stop eating themselves into a self-inflicted disability!
June 27, 2008
12:38 p.m.
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nicktaste writes:
It is worth noting on the graph that the deficit slackened during recessions and grew during periods of expansion. Also of note, many economists calculate trade deficits and/or current account deficits as a percentage of GDP. The U.S. last had a trade surplus in 1991, a recession year. Every year there has been a major reduction in economic growth, it is followed by a reduction in the US trade deficit. [14]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_de...
June 27, 2008
12:48 p.m.
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nicktaste writes:
"Under Japanese law, men are expected to have a waist measurement of 33.5 inches, women, 35.4 inches or less. Corporations and the government are expected to do their share and will suffer financial penalties if they are unable to decrease their obese populations by 10% in the next four years, and by 25% in the next seven years. Large companies stand to lose millions of dollars in fines if their employees don't slim down.
Patients whose waist measurements are greater than recommended and have an illness that can be attributed to obesity will be given "dieting guidence" if they do not show progress toward a smaller measurement within three months. At six months they will be directed toward continuing education about obesity and weight management.
"
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Jeez american's SURE ARE FAT, how dare japan look after its citizens health
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so the real question is: what is the penalty to the japanese person who does/can not slim down?
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Japan:
Life expectancy at birth: total population: 82.07 years
male: 78.73 years
female: 85.59 years (2008 est.)
United States:
total population: 78.14 years
male: 75.29 years
female: 81.13 years (2008 est.)
The japanese model must be a total failue because, on average, Japanese men live 2-3 years longer and women 4+ years longer (on average) than their american counterparts
this same pattern is seen in the majority of parliamentary governments
taken from:
https://www.cia.gov/library/publicati...
June 27, 2008
12:49 p.m.
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soccermom writes:
Dothan,
I've never filled out a welfare form in my life. As far as useful fools go, at least I'm useful. I try and research facts to learn about the issues. Do you? Or is name calling the best you can do?
Lets' see. Which part of HB 1298 do you have an issue with? What sections in particular of the draft rules do you think are the most burdensome and which ones can you live with?
Funny how everyone brings up prairie dogs when they're addressing the seasonal limitations but do not mention the elk herds that would be impacted. Could that be because Colorado values hunters and they might start to really mobilize when they see what will happen in some of those areas thay they treasure for their hunting experience?
Houston-based Schulmberger Limited, one of the world's largest oil-field service companies announced that it wanted to establish a hub to serve the growing energy industry in Western Colorado. They are buying a 375-acre parcel near De Beque and they purchased technology for extracting heavy oil and oil shale from defense contractor Raytheon.
The West-Wide Energy Corridor will be 6,055 miles long within 11 western states. It will directly impact the Yampa River CWP, Willow Creek WSA, San miguel River CWP, etc.
To see where the leases in Colorado are and who owns them, go to:
http://www.ewg.org/oil_and_gas/execsu...
They are not leaving. No one is forcing them too. They just need to drill responsibly. That's not too much to ask of any industry operating in Colorado.
June 27, 2008
12:53 p.m.
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nicktaste writes:
HOW DARE YOU STUPID DUMBOCRATS try to responsibly manage our enviroment (instead of letting companies pilfer it)
I know i sure love spending my tax dollars to clean up the mess of mines, weapons plants, and petroleum companies (instead of holding these companies liable in the 1st place)
June 27, 2008
1 p.m.
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nicktaste writes:
for davies:
JAPAN:
Population: 127,288,419 (July 2008 est.)
Debt - external: $1.492 trillion (30 June 2007)
USA:
Population: 303,824,646 (July 2008 est.)
Debt - external: $12.25 trillion (30 June 2007
June 27, 2008
1:03 p.m.
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jaymoveonorg writes:
jay, keep spreading your lies while prices of oil and gas go up. By the way the Democrats have been in charge for the past 2 years and since then the economy has slowed to a crawl and prices at the pump have skyrocketed. What happened to Pelosi's 2006 promise to stop the rise in gas prices?
http://www.herald-dispatch.com/opinio...
Need any more rope?
June 27, 2008
1:06 p.m.
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nicktaste writes:
mwanecek:
gas prices are high BECAUSE THE US DOLLAR IS falling
someone explain it to him in retardese so he can understand
----------------------------------------------------------
ok , I'll try again
dollar low so gas high
June 27, 2008
1:09 p.m.
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nicktaste writes:
that means it takes more dollar to buy same gas
wow commodities sure are crazy
gold has TRIPLED in last 8 years
--------------------------------------------
Yet you still dont understand, or are ignoring the facts
--------------------------------------------
this war does not profit our economy, it destroys it (but those getting the multi billion dollar no bid contracts sure love it)
June 27, 2008
1:10 p.m.
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davies writes:
nicktaste: As you have tactfully noted, we sometimes have divergent opinions on the issues. While I believe that nationalized/socialized healthcare definitely has its down side, I would regard a national policy (with some 'bite') to prevent obesity in the USA to be a silver lining on the cloud of socialized medicine. So that's almost like two bases for agreement in the same day. Satan must be freezing!
June 27, 2008
1:17 p.m.
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nicktaste writes:
well 1 thing to add
the united states hc system is THE MOST EXPENSIVE in the world per capita
because it is a FOR PROFIT system
if you say lived in a country and the wait time is too long for a procedure you need..
you could always have the option of coming to the usa and paying for it out of pocket...
June 27, 2008
1:19 p.m.
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jay writes:
"keep spreading your lies "
please provide an example of my "lying" or retract that statement please, whinecek. pouting and then lying is actually worse than just pouting.
"Democrats have been in charge for the past 2 years and since then the economy has slowed to a crawl and prices at the pump have skyrocketed."
as said before, it's predictable that you'd try to lay the track record for the last 8 years at the feet of the dems, but can you provide an example of policy decisions by the democrats that caused the mess we're in?
davies, obesity is a disease that costs this country billions of dollars every single year. it needs to be addressed.
June 27, 2008
1:28 p.m.
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soccermom writes:
HB 07-1298 was sponsored by representatives and senators from both parties, so to blame Governor Ritter solely for this is misleading. The co-sponsors and the majority of the legislators that voted for the bill believe that it is important to 'Foster, encourage, and promote the development, production, and utilization of the natural resources of oil and gas in the State of Colorado in a manner consistent with protection of public health, safety, and welfare;'
Also,
'Plan and manage oil and gas operations in a manner that balances development with wildlife conservation...'
What is so wrong about protecting our natural areas, water and air while extracting resources?
June 27, 2008
1:28 p.m.
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nicktaste writes:
the FUNNIEST thing here are the right wingers trying to blame the DEMS for the economic state of the country
thanks for the laugh
June 27, 2008
1:30 p.m.
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nicktaste writes:
"What is so wrong about protecting our natural areas, water and air while extracting resources?"
it cost more $$$ from the companies extracting up front
(as opposed to becoming a superfund site years down the road and having the tax payers foot the bill)
June 27, 2008
1:30 p.m.
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davies writes:
jay: well then that's two agreements with two of my antagonists in one day. I'm not going to push my luck by bringing up a third issue ;-) I think I'll just stop and buy a lotto ticket on my way home!
June 27, 2008
1:30 p.m.
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jaymoveonorg writes:
nicktaste, then why has natural gas prices doubled? Check your electrical bill in August smart guy and you will feel the pain. Keep lying to yourself that it is all about the falling dollar.
June 27, 2008
1:39 p.m.
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jaymoveonorg writes:
I have shown specific examples of your lies but you keep lying to yourself. How can I convince a wack job like you who will believe anything Soros and Obama tell you?
"the FUNNIEST thing here are the right wingers trying to blame the DEMS for the economic state of the country"
Then who is in charge? The last time I checked the Democrats control both houses and our President has been called a lame duck. How typical of a Democrat for not taking responsibility for their actions. Always the victim.
June 27, 2008
1:42 p.m.
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maxpower3030 writes:
Dude, when oil is over $130/barrel and gas will be over $14/MCF this winter, does anyone really believe that oil companies will refuse to drill in Colorado just because they have to fill out a little more paperwork? That's completely absurd. These prices are roughly ten times higher than they were just ten years ago. As a former environmental consultant for oil companies, I can tell you that they hate complying with environmental regulations because it consumes time and doesn't make them money. But compliance requirements would have to be nearly impossible in order to keep companies out of this incredibly profitable industry.
June 27, 2008
1:42 p.m.
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jay writes:
"I have shown specific examples of your lies but you keep lying to yourself."
no you haven't mwanecek...thus you are a liar. so not only are you whining after getting backed into the corner...you're lying now as well. i think i just heard your credibility hit rock bottom. time to change the handle again.
furthermore, The Track Record isn't going any where. you can try to blame the republican failures on the dems, but that's not going to fly outside of the rush limbaugh fantasy hour.
June 27, 2008
1:47 p.m.
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nicktaste writes:
Yes, some people will try to give this a silver lining by saying that the plunging value will help our exports by making everything cheaper. Unfortunately, it also means the world will eventually stop accepting our dollars in exchange for their goods. Iran is already outspoken about our crappy dollar situation and says they will only trade in Euros, Yen, and possibly Dinars. They hate the US anyway, but they're right about the plunging value of our dollar.
I mean, if we give them a billion dollars today and 3 months from now the dollar loses 5 percent of its purchasing power then they just lost 50 million dollars technically. So naturally they don't want to trade their oil for dollars that are slowly losing value.
Traditionally the Middle East has kept their currencies pegged to our dollar to keep a constant exchange rate between our currencies, but the recent fall of the dollar has triggered a lot of fuss in recent months as to whether they should drop the peg or not. Their currencies are technically worth more than they are exchanging them for, and you can bet that if they unpeg them then their value (in dollars) will rise.
Just do a search on google and you'll find a lot of articles:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&am...
Basically our bad business and troubles are spreading to other countries, and pretty soon they will have to turn their back on us or we will take them down with us.
The crazy part is though, that when we go down we will take them all with us anyway since the world's economies are so intricately intertwined! As a result we saw a lot of money being infused into our banks from a lot of different sources in late 2007, like Countrywide recieved from Abu Dhabi and the FHLB Atlanta branch.
http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2007/1...
http://seekingalpha.com/article/55407...
http://www.reuters.com/article/topNew...
June 27, 2008
1:49 p.m.
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nicktaste writes:
They try to say that these are investments and business is as usual, but of course that's what you expect. What would the average American do if they thought their bank was basically... bankrupt? The bank would go out of business and then it would take a lot of stuff with it. Our economy can't handle a tsunami like that, because the problem isn't just with Contrywide, it's everywhere!
Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, Citigroup, Chase, GM, Ford, our government itself. But oh well, stuff like this tends to bore people and they don't want to pay any attention to it. That's why when it all pops off it will hit them in the face like a ton of bricks. And it will be much sooner than later...
The guy above me says that the US has been doing so good for so many years it must continue to do so, right? That's not how a country works though. 25 years ago we were one of the biggest creditors to the world, lending money we could afford to. Nowadays we are the world's biggest debtor, no doubt and our multitrillion dollar debt proves it.
How many people do you know that have credit cards, have a vehicle payment, have a mortgage, owe a hospital, or have racked up debt in some other way? The average American saves less and owes more than at any other time in history.
The recent housing boom that swept the nation was no sign of how prosperous our economy was. It meant that banks were helping people buy houses by lending them the money they, in turn, borrowed from the government. Lending practices were basically nonexistent and they sold houses to people who wouldn't be able to afford them in the long run.
What we saw last year was the accumulation of all these people defaulting on their mortgages or filing for bankruptcy because they've been losing their jobs or just plain couldn't keep up with the payments. This has been happening in the millions around our nation, and the banks have been losing a LOT of money. This has just begun, so they stand to lose a LOT, LOT more.
People will keep losing their jobs. As people tighten their belts and spend less on luxuries and keep to the essentials then even more people will lose their jobs. This will keep going until we enter a depression.
June 27, 2008
1:49 p.m.
Suggest removal
nicktaste writes:
Anyway, at some point during all this the dollar will be discovered to be worthless. Oh well though, don't take my word for it. I encourage you to research this yourself. It took me a while to understand as much as I know now, and even that barely scrapes the surface. What I am sure of though is that when this much Greater Depression happens, it will take the system down with it. How we buy and sell groceries, trade items and use our money... so many people just don't see how bad it will get.
Check this guy's site out for more information:
http://www.markswatson.com
He has a lot of good economy-related articles, as well as political ones. He is Christian so you will see some related themes on there, though he does a good job of separating his religious beliefs from the facts. He also has a great series of articles dating from as far back as 2002 titled "The Coming Economic Depression". You will have to Google that title to find them, since he has since removed links to them from his main page. He recently changed the names of his updates to "The Political, Economic and Spiritual Review."
Read them if you really want to know the true state of things
----
credit goes to "atlas", thanks
June 27, 2008
1:50 p.m.
Suggest removal
nicktaste writes:
above info taken from http://answers.yahoo.com/question/ind...
June 27, 2008
1:54 p.m.
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jaymoveonorg writes:
jay, are you dizzy yet from all the spinning.
maxpower3030, I agree with you. They won't abandon Colorado, but when Ritter tells them they can't drill for 3 months to protect some animal they will pull those rigs, revenue, and jobs out of Colorado for 3 months. They will be back but we just lost 3 months of work and revenue. How is this going to help in the cost of natural gas?
I am all for putting regulations in place to protect our environment but we have to remember the more regulations in place the higher the price. We need to find that right balance where prices do not continue to sky rocket but we protect the environment. I think we can do it if our politicians would stop using talking points from people like jay.
June 27, 2008
2 p.m.
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jay writes:
i take we're done then, mwhinecek, as you can't refute any of the points that refute yours...and you can't substantiate your conspiracy theories about my "lying".
drill here, drill now...on land already approved and available.
lots of good points, nicktaste.
June 27, 2008
2:02 p.m.
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nicktaste writes:
mwanecek do us all a favor and gain a more solid understanding of the factors affecting energy prices and then come back with some actual facts to back up your speculation
June 27, 2008
2:03 p.m.
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jaymoveonorg writes:
nicktaste,
I have read his stuff before and I have read other doomsday stuff from guys who believe in the "oil peak" theory. They all bring scary and valid arguements.
So where do we go from here? According to these doomsday guys we need radical and I mean radical changes to the way we live. We are talking about a great migration from rural to urban. We use trains only to travel to large metropolises. The government regulates what we eat and how much, how much fuel we use, government housing is rapant and basically a lot of our freedoms would go away. Do you really think either candidate will do this?
IMO, we will need to go through a major revolution (see Russian Revolution) and bring about an authorative leadership that eventually would move to a socialist society. Sounds like fun.
June 27, 2008
2:08 p.m.
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jaymoveonorg writes:
nicktaste and jay,
What would you do to solve this issue?
If you say elect the democrats into office I am going to puke, because Obama does not have the balls to do what would be required to tear down the institutions you are claiming are the problem. He showed this when he backed away from Reverend Wright. He showed us he is still a typical politician when he did that.
June 27, 2008
2:26 p.m.
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jaymoveonorg writes:
Well I got to go. Too bad I wanted to hear what nickaste and jay had to say to solve this mess. I would think they would come back and say it would take a lot and I mean a lot more government regulations and nationalization. Similar to what they have in China. Some kind of capitialism/communism hybrid system, because I frankly do not believe the Chinese even have a true communist society anymore.
June 27, 2008
2:27 p.m.
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davies writes:
Backing away from Reverend Wright was an act of sanity; not necessarily typical for a politician. But big-picture-wise, yes, you should see Obama start to tack back towards the middle now. We don't elect purists.
You say you want a revolution? Well you know, we all want to change the world.
June 27, 2008
2:38 p.m.
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jay writes:
i'd start with acknowledging that there are a number of factors at work pushing oil costs higher.
they include supply and demand, speculation, devalution of the dollar and the destabilization of the middle east.
in order to influence supply, i'd encourage the oil companies to increase domestic production by drilling on lands already approved and leased by allowing them to keep some of the corporate welfare outside of pure research and development.
i'd then influence opec to increase production by leveraging the threat of using our strategic oil reserves.
on top of that i'd vote out the politicians whose policies have devalued the dollar and further destabilized the middle east. someone has to get fired over this deal.
i'd also fully investigate whether we need to have some regulatory influence on the specuation market.
lastly, i'd funnel some of that corporate welfare not directly related to oil and gas randd and/or incentivizing new domestic production into alternative energy development.
hell, we could also generate more funds for all energy research and development just by increasing fisal oversight of the war department...after all...they're the biggest mouths to feed and i can't imagine they don't have scraps all around the high chair.
June 27, 2008
2:43 p.m.
Suggest removal
soccermom writes:
They don't have to take their drilling rigs out of Colorado for three months at a time. If the companies want to do a consultation with the Division of Wildlife they can negotiate the timing, etc. Say a herd shifts its range they can work around that. The whole point is to get industry talking with the DOW during the planning process so impacts can be minimized. Another example, if areas are restored with the proper amount of native ground cover when the sites are being restored, then that will prevent invasive species from moving in. The problem of invasive species on our state and national lands is huge, growing, and expensive if not impossible to manage. Let's take for example, the spread of cheat grass and how it is fueling fires and crowding out native species. Why not take a few precautions when industry wants to go into pristine areas such as the Roan Plateau?
Streams and rivers need the proper amount of buffers. How much is a prime trout stream worth to you folks?
At the Stakeholder Group meetings I sat with one of the reps and we discussed a couple of issues that I thought might need to be addressed. He showed me where it was already being taken care of by industry so we moved on to other issues. He remarked that it might take a year, but the two of us could probably work together to come to an agreement on almost every sticking point. Too bad industry is making this into such an emotion-charged political war. They are the ones spending hand over fist to run ads talking about the so-called awful rules, whining about them at every opportunity and threatening that they are going to take their business to another state. Fat chance.
June 27, 2008
2:45 p.m.
Suggest removal
Shaggy writes:
Wow, jay almost posted his first post ever w/o bashing Bush...almost...but it is a little progress....even though he still doesn't understand why the Oil companies need land that actually contain Oil....we can a million dry wells on the current leades land and still not come up with any Oil....He doesn't understand thta we need to drill where the Oil is.
I just taught this to a three year old and he picked it up right away...understood perfectly...
June 27, 2008
2:46 p.m.
Suggest removal
Shaggy writes:
we can[drill]a million dry wells
oops
June 27, 2008
2:53 p.m.
Suggest removal
jay writes:
actually we debunked the myth about the available land not having oil yesterday or the day before, shag. please see the oil thread in letters.
is there anything else that would keep us from enacting those initiatives?
June 27, 2008
2:54 p.m.
Suggest removal
davies writes:
"i'd then influence opec to increase production by leveraging the threat of using our strategic oil reserves."
Whoa, I'd argue all day against that one. The only two conditions for which I would favor using the strategic oil reserve are (1) as necessitated due to full-fledged, major global conflict; and (2) when the reserve is no longer needed to sustain us through full-fledged, major global conflict, due to new energy sources.
I think OPEC would love to see us dip into our strategic reserves. We need to keep stockpiling.
June 27, 2008
3:07 p.m.
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jay writes:
davies, a lot of folks have that same reaction...but many times they're unaware that we've manipulated our spr's several times since their inception. we've even sold and loaned fuel in order to manipulate the global market in the past...including the lending of millions of barrels to various us oil companies...without any major hiccups.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategi...
if we can influence opec production while increase domestic drilling on land already in the queue...well....you get the idea...
June 27, 2008
3:28 p.m.
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davies writes:
Still say NO WAY. A negotiation tactic is only effective if you're prepared to use it. We NEED the stuff to keep our economy humming - what would OPEC have to endure if our demand went down slightly? OPEC is in a position to just sit and wait and sell their oil elsewhere in the meantime. Then when our reserves start running low, we will have shat ourselves.
If we do things on the sly to manipulate the market and OPEC isn't watching our gas gauge go down, that's another thing.
June 27, 2008
3:30 p.m.
Suggest removal
soccermom writes:
Also, Ritter did not draft the rules. Industry, landowners, local political representatives, sportsmen, enviros and other groups all participated in the drafting of the rules. Of course some industry reps were just paid to sit there, because they had no intention of supporting any regulations. Interestingly, industry had the most representation at the table because no company would let another company speak for them. So much for their concern about their employees health, infrastructure within the communities where they are drilling, water quality of resident's wells, etc. Why shouldn't they keep a record of the chemicals that are in their waste water? Isn't that a health issue that should be of concern to local officials?
June 27, 2008
3:36 p.m.
Suggest removal
SirRealist writes:
Nick, let me ask you to list some of the superfund sites that are attributable to drilling for oil in the US.
June 27, 2008
3:36 p.m.
Suggest removal
nicktaste writes:
"Well I got to go. Too bad I wanted to hear what nickaste and jay had to say to solve this mess. I would think they would come back and say it would take a lot and I mean a lot more government regulations and nationalization. Similar to what they have in China. Some kind of capitialism/communism hybrid system, because I frankly do not believe the Chinese even have a true communist society anymore.
"
the best answer we have left is Nuclear_power and also reprocessing the spent nuclear fuel like france does
but 1st we need a place to put the waste
:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_...
June 27, 2008
3:47 p.m.
Suggest removal
jaymoveonorg writes:
Coercing OPEC to use our reserves and our own production will only temporarily help with prices in the short term. The Chinese and Inidans will ensure this, because their economy looks unstoppable right now. What we need to do is to dramatically increase drilling here in the United States. Use the increased tax revenues from the oil industry to fund alternative energy by tax credits or direct research. We create jobs here in the United States, which helps the economy even more, which in turn improves the dollar's performance. All of this can be done with government regulations and make sure their is very little environmental damage.
Yes, oil will continue to be heavily influenced by OPEC but at least we can get get a bigger piece of the pie, which will help our economy.
June 27, 2008
3:53 p.m.
Suggest removal
jay writes:
gene, i'm hoping that the city comes to its senses and starts to prepare for city park being a camping spot during the convention. they need to understand that this trend is likely to continue. they don't have the resources to filter out the thousands of permitted campers from those who just drove in from kalamazoo to see a little history. this means that there is a potential for a lot more people than originally thought. i personally like the idea of allowing camping in the park during this historic event. i think it can be pulled off safely and cleanly and will speak volumes about the city of denver. we'll see how it turns out.
sirrealist....here's a site for that kind of research:
http://www.publicintegrity.org/Superf...
davies, we'll have to agree to disagree on using our spr's as leverage to force more production out of opec. i think any move has to be in conjunction with increase domestic oil production on the lands already approved for drilling. if new domestic drilling can truly produce the kind of results we've been hearing about lately, then i see no reason to believe that our expenditures out of our own stockpiles will need to be large or drawn out.
June 27, 2008
3:54 p.m.
Suggest removal
nicktaste writes:
"Nick, let me ask you to list some of the superfund sites that are attributable to drilling for oil in the US"
Oil companies claim that they can drill in an environmentally friendly way; however, by looking at their past record of abuses, we realize that this is not the case. Whether you look at the number and size of oil spills, chemical waste, and drilling byproducts or you look at the impact of oil drilling on people and the environment, you see a continuous record of horror:
Arco (1-800-322-2726) is responsible (to the tune of $215 million) for the largest Superfund site in the country, an area in Montana. A Superfund site is a toxic spot designated for immediate cleanup because it is so hazardous. Arco is also solely responsible for three Superfund sites in Prudhoe Bay, an area adjacent to the Refuge in northern Alaska. 28 Arco employees are dead because of explosions or accidents in Arco refineries and fields.
British Petroleum (BP) (1-800 UTELLBP) has an awful record despite their much touted publicity of being a “green” company. BP’s Endicott Field, the third largest field in Prudhoe Bay, was an “environmentally friendly” field, yet was fined $15 million for injecting hazardous waste back into groundwater. BP is responsible for the second largest oil spill in California, a 400,000 gallon spill in Huntington Beach. BP finances a private army in Columbia that has killed six people “protecting” a pipeline through indigenous lands. These actions have caused Human Rights Watch to speak out against the army and BP.
June 27, 2008
3:55 p.m.
Suggest removal
nicktaste writes:
Chevron’s (1-800-962-1223) record includes recent exploits such as flying armed Nigerian military and police out to break up a peaceful demonstration on an oil platform, which resulted in the murder of two unarmed protesters. Chevron has the dubious distinction of having 65 Clean Air Act violations from one platform, the “Grace” off the coast of California. Chevron, like Arco, is in the Superfund race and is responsible for 49 Superfund sites.
Exxon (1-800-344-4355) is responsible for the Valdez spill, the largest spill in the nation’s history. After 10 years, the wildlife, economy, landscape, and sea has still not recovered from this devastating incident. All but one species, the bald eagle, have not been able to recover from this spill to date, despite extensive efforts. Exxon has had to pay reparations elsewhere, as in Texas when they had to pay to clean up a community after dumping over two billion gallons of chemical waste water.
These examples are but a few of the things that can happen when oil is placed before those intangibles that we all value, like quality of life, wildlife, and a healthy environment. The mentality in the oil business of “time is money” leads to rushed actions in the field so that these types of accidents happen. This mindset is not compatible with one of the last great and truly wild places in the world. For at its root, oil drilling is not a low impact activity no matter how it is done. These four companies should not be drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. To help let them know, you can call the 1-800 numbers listed in the above paragraphs and tell them what you
http://www.lclark.edu/~lotl/volume5is...
June 27, 2008
3:58 p.m.
Suggest removal
nicktaste writes:
"To help let them know, you can call the 1-800 numbers listed in the above paragraphs and tell them what you THINK"
June 27, 2008
4:08 p.m.
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soccermom writes:
Thanks for the interesting discussion. Learned a few things. Still fuzzy on the global issues. Thanks nicktaste for letting people know that there are indeed impacts and not enough accountability. Bye.
June 27, 2008
7:08 p.m.
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SirRealist writes:
Nick, I know about each of these, and don't necessarily agree with the way they were reported, but nonetheless, let's take them at face value.
The real issue is that for all the billions of barrels of oil taken out via wells, there really have been amazingly few real disasters, but I agree they can, and do, happen.
The answer has to be one of two things then, doesn't it? We can either 1) stop all oil extraction so the problem can't occur, or 2) correct the problems with drilling and pumping so the risk of problems is at or near zero. The former is not acceptable because the US and world economies would collapse - unless you can show a way to run trains, cars, trucks, and everything else on nuclear power, and then you'd better be able to show me how you're going to handle the toxic waste. The latter can, and should, be done in any event, and would allow time to progress to alternative forms of energy.
By the way RickyLee, how long have you been in the drilling business? It seems you have great knowledge to share about the cost of well installation and maintenance, so perhaps you'd share that with us so we could benefit from it and let it influence our discussion here?
June 28, 2008
10:41 a.m.
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jay writes:
"The answer has to be one of two things then, doesn't it? We can either 1) stop all oil extraction so the problem can't occur, or 2) correct the problems with drilling and pumping so the risk of problems is at or near zero."
actually...there is a common sense number 3.
until there is a fail safe way to protect the area around oil disasters...consider not drilling in some areas that are ecologically fragile. considering that we have 68 million acres already approved for drilling...this shouldn't be a problem any time soon.