Mayor touts safe city after 2 weekend shootings
Gun violence isn't repeat of 1993, Hickenlooper says
By Julie Poppen, Rocky Mountain News (Contact)
Published June 23, 2008 at 7:42 p.m.
Do you feel safe in LoDo?
Mark Tabullo-Zuniga was killed in the shootout.
Andres Castillo was seriously wounded.
Photo by Brian Lehmann / The Rocky
Jason Jackson, 28, leans against his car while talking on the phone next to J.P., 28, and Blaccwell Jones, 25. The three were spending time across the street from Bash, an 18-and-up club in LoDo where an argument apparently led to a shooting outside that eventually left a man dead.
Photo by Brian Lehmann / The Rocky
Debra Winn, a paralegal at Mills and Weitzenkorn, came into her office Monday and found a bullet on the floor. "I heard about the shooting over the weekend and saw the parking lot where it happened, but I didn't expect a bullet to go through the wall (shown above)."
CORRECTION: This story should have said that total criminal offenses in the Union Station neighborhood increased 6.6 percent from 2005 to 2007, from 852 to 908.
Mayor John Hickenlooper promised Denver won't experience another "Summer of Violence" and vowed Monday to crack down on criminals who wield weapons after two unrelated weekend shootings shocked the city.
"If you use a gun in Denver, we're going to do everything we can to put you behind bars as long as we can," the mayor said at a news conference flanked by Police Chief Gerry Whitman and District Attorney Mitch Morrissey.
Police identified Mark Tabullo- Zuniga, 23, as the gunman who died in a confrontation with police early Sunday in a parking lot at 18th and Market streets.
Andres Castillo, 27, who was also wounded in the gunfire, is listed in serious condition at Denver Health Medical Center.
The mayor also announced the arrest of a suspect in a Friday drive-by shooting that wounded an 8-year-old girl as she walked with her aunt in the Curtis Park neighborhood.
'Let me be clear'
The "Summer of Violence" refers to 1993, when several high-profile homicides made headlines and put the city on edge.
"Let me be clear: This community will not accept violence - not a day of it, not a week of it, not a month of it and certainly not a summer of it," Hickenlooper said.
"Denver's a safe community," the mayor said as he opened the news conference and reminded reporters that crime in the city has declined for two straight years.
Hickenlooper cited statistics showing that overall crime in the city dropped 10 percent in 2006 and 11 percent in 2007. At the same time, Hickenlooper said he was deeply concerned about the two recent shooting incidents.
"While the overall trends are encouraging, we are concerned about every individual act of violence - and the havoc it wreaks on its victims and on our community's sense of security," the mayor said.
The lower downtown shooting was half a mile from where the city will be hosting the Democratic National Convention in two months, but the mayor downplayed any heightened concern related to the convention.
"If this happened six months ago or a year ago, when it happened, where it happened, it doesn't change it a bit," said Hickenlooper, who described the two recent incidents as "isolated."
Hickenlooper said he would encourage LoDo bar operators to meet to discuss possible solutions to the chaos that often erupts when bars close.
He said Denver will put more gang officers on the street through a $612,000 federal grant received recently by the Denver Police Department and promised a crackdown on gun crime.
Whitman said neither weekend crime appeared to be gang-motivated or involved a confrontation between gangs. He refused to say, however, whether any people involved were affiliated with street gangs.
Whitman identified the two gang unit officers involved in Sunday's fatal shooting at 18th and Market streets as Sgt. Vince Lombardi and officer Jason Simmons.
Officer in earlier shootings
Lombardi, a 19-year department veteran, has been involved in two previous shooting deaths and was cleared in both.
Simmons has been with the department four years. His shirt was ripped by shotgun pellets in the incident, Whitman said.
Lombardi and Simmons were among eight officers patrolling that part of LoDo just before 2 a.m. Sunday when they tried to break up a fight in a parking lot.
Tabullo-Zuniga, armed with a shotgun, and another man using a handgun exchanged gunfire.
Simmons and Lombardi confronted Tabullo-Zuniga and he fired in their direction, police said. The two officers opened fire in return.
Whitman said Tabullo-Zuniga handed the shotgun to Castillo, whom police shot when he allegedly refused to drop the weapon.
Whitman said the officers fired 11 rounds.
Police are still looking for a third man involved in the original shootout. Four bystanders suffered non-life-threatening wounds from shotgun pellets.
Despite the shooting, Whitman said he had no plans to increase patrols in LoDo, which he said has the highest police presence in the city during certain hours.
He said there are up to 25 uniformed officers in LoDo as bars close and another 10 or 15 off-duty officers working inside various clubs.
Denver police Lt. Ron Saunier said at least one person hurt by shotgun pellets had been at nearby Club Bash, a hip-hop venue, prior to the shooting. The club is open to the 18-and-over set.
Club owner Mike Bertinelli said the shooting surprised him, since things have been going well regarding security in the area.
Bertinelli said he doubted any of the people involved in the shooting had been at the club at 1902 Blake St. because police had not asked to view security tapes.
"If any witnesses had come out of Bash, I would have gotten a call asking for surveillance tapes," Bertinelli said. "If someone stubs their toe down there, they ask for surveillance tapes."
Laura Orlik, 24, and her fiance, Cooper Potter, 25, both of Denver, sell hot dogs on Rockies game days or weekend nights across Blake from Club Bash.
Both said they have seen fights and even weapons as people have exited Club Bash. Still, business is brisk and they said they have no plans to relocate.
Staff writer Hector Gutierrez contributed to this report.
Shooting deaths involving Sgt. Vince Lombardi:
* July 2001: Lombardi was among seven Denver police officers who shot and killed Richard Vaughn Dutson Jr., 39, a purse-snatching suspect who had rammed a police car twice while driving a stolen vehicle in the 100 block of Park Avenue West. Police fired 50 shots, hitting Dutson at least 15 times. The district attorney's office cleared the officers of any wrongdoing.
* November 1992: Lombardi and Detective Dennis Chavez shot and killed Miguel Angel Ochoa, 24, a Mexican citizen, after Ochoa allegedly pointed a gun at them. Ochoa was shot in the back while the officers were working off-duty as security guards at a bar in the 2200 block of Larimer Street. The district attorney's office said the shooting was justified. Ochoa's parents sued in 1993, accusing the officers of negligence. The case was settled out of court in 1995 with a payment of $35,000 to Ochoa's family.
LoDo neighborhood crime profile
LoDo is within the Union Station neighborhood, for the purposes of crime statistics. The city does not calculate the crime rate per 1,000 residents - or its ranking among neighborhoods - because the population is too low. The Union Station neighborhood recorded the sixth-highest number of assaults in 2007 and the 29th-highest number for auto thefts. The neighborhood data:
Total offenses 2005 2006 2007 852 963 908
Change from 2005 to 2007 6.6%
Change from 2006 to 2007 -6% BREAKDOWN 2005 2006 2007 Homicides 1 1 1
Sex assaults 7 8 6
Burglaries 71 65 45
Auto theft 119 91 75
Robberies 28 39 39
Assaults 64 59 67
Two men involved in shootout
* Mark Tabullo-Zuniga, 23, who was killed Sunday, was arrested in 2003 in Denver on drug charges. Those were later dismissed, but he was also arrested on domestic violence charges in Lakewood in 2006. It was not known Monday what the disposition of those charges were.
* Information on Andres Castillo, 27, was not available late Monday. He remains in serious condition at the Denver Health Medical Center.
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June 22, 2008
12:56 p.m.
Suggest removal
an_artist writes:
gang violence is creeping up right under our noses once again. why is our mayor not addressing this problem? let's recap, shall we?
- two men shot at gas stations in southwest denver.
- a little girl caught in the crossfire at curtis park.
- gunbattle at 18th and market?
these are just the incidents that i can recall off the top of my head at the moment. wake up folks. let's not repeat 1993.
June 22, 2008
1:18 p.m.
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surferon writes:
Don't forget the shooting in LoDo around the New Year's time frame. At the time I remember the city saying that was not gang related. Hmmm, makes me wonder if that's the city lying in order to not scare people away from going to the 16th Street Mall and spending money there.
June 22, 2008
1:19 p.m.
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surferon writes:
BTW- Does anybody know if all these people were in the same bar/club? Is this something that started at some establishment and the spilled out or was this just another random act of stupidity?
June 22, 2008
1:29 p.m.
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jaybyrd writes:
so who needs LODO? One can pary at the Highlands Ranch Towne center or the Belmar Towne center, or the AMC 24 area off-Broadway. LODO is a long way to travel just to get shot.
June 22, 2008
1:45 p.m.
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rickg19611 writes:
Hickenblunder is too busy touring the country, begging fatcats to pay the bill for the idiotic Democrap party, than to do his job in Denver.
June 22, 2008
1:54 p.m.
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ifyem writes:
Jaybird-Stay in the burbs bud, we need fewer knuckleheads around Denver anyways!!! There is a lot more to Denver than LODO!!
June 22, 2008
2:18 p.m.
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bjjdenver writes:
As someone who frequents the downtown club scene, and has since the early 90's, this in NO way surprises me.
What does surprise me, is that this doesn't happen far more often. I have also worked in bars when I was younger, and I understand the problem that gangs and ignorance breeds.
First, the security at many establishments, is a joke. There is commonly no dress code and the bouncers are ill equipped to deal with more than a stumbling drunk. Not only do many places allow gang type behavior, there are some that cater to it. Then you bring in the South Suburban person that comes in, gets loaded and thinks they can spout off to just anyone with no consequences, it just adds fuel to the fire.
As for police presence, it is very high downtown. Unfortunately, many times these officers are distracted by scantily clad girls and spend to much time flirting with them and not doing much police work. It is not uncommon for there to be upwards of 6-10 patrol cars with their officers, all parked at 14th and market, while many other areas have zero presence.
Anyone who thinks the answer is to stay out of downtown, beware, the Highlands Ranch area is getting to be pretty sketchy itself. Same goes for the North side of town, as well as the traditionally bad areas.
And Yella, where is this gay gang you talk about? Do they have rainbow bandanas? I want to watch out for those guys! Seriously, making an ignornt remark like that, only distracts from your valid points. Completely uncalled for.
June 22, 2008
2:22 p.m.
Suggest removal
bjjdenver writes:
sorry, typo, meant "ignorant".
June 22, 2008
2:32 p.m.
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R8R_H8R writes:
And every time the Mayor wants to put more policemen on the streets, and beef up the gang task force, the republicans cry FOUL! These slow-thinkers want lower taxes at any cost, then cry like a baby, un-able to comprehend the consequences of their limited thought. Lower taxes equals lousy services. Especially when the republican party spends what money there is available on pork-barrel crap that makes their cronies richer and is no benefit to the average american citizen. This is not rocket science. Not real hard to think this through.
June 22, 2008
2:40 p.m.
Suggest removal
B_Man writes:
bjjdenver-
Speaking of "ignorant" statements, what happened, did your scantily clad girlfriend leave you to speak with a cop? Its always the cops fault, we all know that.
June 22, 2008
2:51 p.m.
Suggest removal
bjjdenver writes:
Bman--
Actually one of my best friends is on the gang unit in Denver. I am in no way "blaming" the cops that are on the streets. rather, I am in that area and see it with my own eyes. I have the utmost respect for anyone who puts their life on the line for inadequate pay.
This is solely the fault of the morons that think guns and violence is the answer. However, before making your accusation, why don't you go down there some Friday or Saturday after Midnight, and tell me I am wrong.
Unfortunately, these officers are restrained by our need for them to be reactive instead of proactive. They simply are stationed incorrectly and have to wait for a situation to develop before they can do anything. That is just the way our society wants it.
June 22, 2008
2:57 p.m.
Suggest removal
theairdog writes:
Another great idea Artstarzz!
Oh wait! That's right. Most of the Gang-bangers already have records and can't legally possess guns. Imagine that! They flout the Law.......
Or were you thinking of passing a law against bullets that the Criminals would respect? (See definition of Criminal - One who breaks the law)
June 22, 2008
3:24 p.m.
Suggest removal
aurorabugsbunny writes:
To Yella and Atzlan99-----Yella--All 'gangs' did not originate in Compton. With all the people coming into this country everyday, we are getting all kinds of gangs. More ruthless than you can imagine.
A99-You left LA because of gangs??? Hmm...did you think any fairly large city in the U.S. was exempt from them?
Gangs are everywhere, and the numbers are growing. Scary isn't it??
June 22, 2008
3:36 p.m.
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colohigh5 writes:
GO BACK TO LA
June 22, 2008
5:21 p.m.
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buzzman writes:
never to go anymore to lodo except for lunch-lived in big D my entire life-not worth the BS and potential problems
June 22, 2008
6:25 p.m.
Suggest removal
hikingartist writes:
I'd rather be camping myself, ahem, without a gun.
June 22, 2008
9:24 p.m.
Suggest removal
Scott writes:
I just heard on Channel 31 that a lady whose car was parked with in the crime scene area had her car ticketed by the Denver Parking Nazis because the meter had expired! This lady had nothing to do with the murder other than her car happened to be parked in the area! She had wanted to move her car, but the police did not allow her until they processed the crime scene ... which makes perfect sense. However, the Denver Parking Nazis, in the quest to leave NO car unticketed, quickly wrote a ticket for this car that was depriving hissonor Lickenpoor from yet more revenue.
Once again the Denver Parking Nazis strike!
Scott
June 22, 2008
10:14 p.m.
Suggest removal
Mtnmike293 writes:
This incident is reflective of what has been a long history of an out of control gang problem. These gang banging clowns have no respect for themselves or others. Never have and never will. The sad part is when the police show up and end this thing they did not have the opportunity to eliminate more of the problem than just the one low life fool that is on his way to gang bang heaven. RIP Hood Boy.
June 22, 2008
10:28 p.m.
Suggest removal
swimoutpassthebreakers writes:
Go ahead artstarzz ban my bullets.
http://www.expertvillage.com/video/67...
June 22, 2008
11:19 p.m.
snuffalupagus writes:
(This comment was removed by the site staff.)
June 23, 2008
5:32 a.m.
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YourLocalHero writes:
Hey sunffalupagus,
They were actually blacks from Aurora that frequent club Bash. Nice try though.
June 23, 2008
7:15 a.m.
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mexcellent writes:
Hey snuffalupagus,
Let me buy you a beer.
June 23, 2008
8:20 a.m.
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inyourownwords writes:
I'm unclear as to why the writer of the article felt it was relavant to the story to repeatedly mention the upcoming DNC convention. We all have our personal views on the convention-how is it responsible to interject them into this piece?
Praise and best wishes to the officers who responded to the crime and put their lives on the line.
June 23, 2008
9 a.m.
Suggest removal
tm3869 writes:
Where did the article say anything about where they live or what color they were or exactly what club they came out of, snuffalupagus and Hero?
Did the tv newws report tat?
June 23, 2008
9:09 a.m.
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tm3869 writes:
ooooops, I meant "that"
June 23, 2008
9:36 a.m.
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temurlan writes:
inyourownwords, you are correct. I don't care about the convention at all. I care about that area being safe for us, all year round.
June 23, 2008
9:43 a.m.
Suggest removal
Denverite91 writes:
To the idiot who said lower taxes equals crappier service. It sounds like to me two police officers breaking up a gun battle among multiple people without any innocent victims facing major injuries is pretty good service to me. You can put as many police officers on the street as you want and you would have still had the same situation and the same outcome.
June 23, 2008
9:44 a.m.
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American100 writes:
GOOD SHOT OFFICER!
June 23, 2008
9:50 a.m.
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OhBrother writes:
Ummm, yeah when I go out downtown it's usually the meat head suburban jock types that are binge drinking, causing problems, fighting and getting cuffed. Not just black and Mexican people create violence, last time I checked villains and evil acts were around long before 93'.
Either way, maybe having all locations let out and close at exactly the same time adds to this problem. Regardless of where your coming out of you instantly blend in with a drunken crowd thus creating a dangerous situation
June 23, 2008
10 a.m.
Suggest removal
rjbaloha writes:
LODO is what your wallet looks like after paying parking charges and for entertainment and shopping. The area is not any more dangerous that other areas in the Denver metro area. The gangs have infiltrated all these areas, ie Highlands Ranch, Cherry Creek, etc. There are estimated to be over 20,000 gang members in the Denver metro area. Soon this place will be called Little Los Angeles as more criminals are caught and released there to move to new cities like Denver. The police are doing a good job but their hands are tied. Let them do what is necessary to clean up the streets. No new prisons needed either. Use barbed wire on the plains and be sure to order plenty of PINK underwear for them to wear.
June 23, 2008
10:02 a.m.
Suggest removal
redwhiteandBLUE writes:
Gangs ? It's just people that have beef with each other, and run into each other at places..like LO-Do.
June 23, 2008
10:19 a.m.
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expatman writes:
Did I miss something? I didn't see the ACLU mentioned in the article. How about a round of applause for the NRA and the "an assault weapon in every home" crowd.
June 23, 2008
10:54 a.m.
Suggest removal
OhBrother writes:
expatman-
"How about a round of applause for the NRA and the "an assault weapon in every home" crowd"
clap, clap, clap! maybe the "an assault weapon in every home crowd"
isn't the same as "the assault weapon in every CROWD crowd" but hey I'm sure it all seems like yada yada yada to the anti gun groups. Just a quick FYI but the types that usually bring guns ( I said usually but most certainly not always) with them to the club aren't card carrying NRA members. Another shocker for you might be that more than NRA members have guns, criminals also don't get permits carry
June 23, 2008
10:59 a.m.
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jay writes:
i was wondering...how does denver's lowering crime rate compare the rates of other cities with similar sized metro areas?
June 23, 2008
11:30 a.m.
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blacksho89 writes:
R8R-
Where did you find a Republican in Denver?
June 23, 2008
11:30 a.m.
Suggest removal
Diff writes:
Crime rate in major cities and in most States have trended down.
(just saw a report on that somewhere... )
LoDo has been on my list for places to avoid for a few years and just moved up to near the top.
1) it is full of mostly punks and and self important urbanites who are no fun to be around anyway...
2) it's expensive1
3) now it is becoming as dangerous as north east Denver and old central Aurora.
I am still just imagining a great city....
June 23, 2008
11:48 a.m.
Suggest removal
jay writes:
i think after traveling to a few other cities that people realize how safe denver really is.
not everyone can afford to live near downtown any longer and i think lots of folks like to disparage that which they can't have.
the point still remains that the federal gov't gutted local law enforcement funding after 9/11 and the citizenry doesn't want to pick up the local tax revenue slack...so who's to blame for the low or undermanned police presence?
one guess....i think they're running for a third term...
June 23, 2008
11:59 a.m.
Suggest removal
MaxInEnglewood writes:
Horrible crime, but honestly compared to most cities Denver isnt that bad at all. Those complaining are probably suburbanites that dont visit Denver often.
June 23, 2008
1:17 p.m.
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doyoueatspam writes:
In all honesty, does the average person really care if bad people shoot and kill each other? I care about when innocent people/bystanders are harmed during these kinds of events, hence why the Police had to get involved, but wouldn't the world be a much better place than having these incompetents ruining it for good people? I was on the 16th Street Mall last night around 9:00 pm when two punks (say in their early 20s) almost got into a fight with many people walking by unaware of their angst for each other. Who knows if one of them, or both, had a knife or a gun, or both, and used it on the other person, and potentially injuring or killing innocent people during their joust, just so they can publicly display their anger. I hate to admit it, because people should have a second chance in life, but it gets way old when this kind of crap happens in full-view of areas where people can be harmed and I really don't care when these kind of people are killed.
June 23, 2008
1:41 p.m.
Suggest removal
M2 writes:
My heart goes out to his family.
My thank you goes out to the DPD.
You reap what you sow.
Enjoy being dead. I hope it was worth it.
June 23, 2008
2:15 p.m.
Suggest removal
redwhiteandBLUE writes:
So...who were all these people ? The guy that got killed and all the others ? Inquiring minds want to know.
June 23, 2008
2:51 p.m.
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Marshdale writes:
Tommy: Just what the hell do gang bangers have to do with the ACLU. The ACLU is there to protect our liberties. Remember it was the ACLU who fought for the KKK's right to peacefully assemble. They are not just some left wing org. I think you need to read a little more.
June 23, 2008
3:08 p.m.
Suggest removal
anthony1979 writes:
The Bash Night Club needs to be shut down, Theory as well. I like to have fun just like anyone else in their '20s but those clubs are nothing but trouble. Maybe if each club would allow only a percentage to be minority maybe that would work -if you think this is a racist comment -I'm a Hispanic male. It shames me that my people and other people of color have a hard time knowing how to act. RIP the two IDIOTS shooting at others and cops in crowded areas...at least no one INNOCENT died.
June 23, 2008
4:51 p.m.
Suggest removal
Diff writes:
Fresh
Ja und den ve vill hav a saf zity!
Ud all da bad peopel vill be gone zfrom here.
and if you happen to be wearing the wrong color hat and a cop takes you for a gang member, so he blows you brains out - what then?
What if it happened to be your 11 year old son, how would that work?
The cops could say he should have known better and not been wearing a red hat -
The stupidity level and reached yet another high mark here today.
June 23, 2008
5:06 p.m.
Suggest removal
redwhiteandBLUE writes:
Mr. Hick.............
Crack down on illegal aliens while you're at it!!
Lets not forget the illegal killer of Officer Donny Young,
He left a widow and children Sir!
June 23, 2008
5:42 p.m.
Suggest removal
bxwatso writes:
A few thoughts, for those who care to read so far down on this list:
1. AFAIK, not a single violent incident was caused by someone with a carry permit. I think this proves that carry permits at least cause no harm.
2. All of the shootings in LoDo were by patrons of dodgy dance clubs. AFIK, not a single LoDo shooting in the past 13 years was by a patron of a restaurant or simple bar.
In short, Mr. Mayor, I think the problem is not guns, but porrly managed dance clubs. Patrons of some dance clubs get dangerously intoxicated on booze and drugs. The clubs need to start being held responsible for the extremely intoxicated people they let loose on the streets. These people are beyond control and amped up, not just too drunk to drive.
If there were a law allowing the liquor license to be taken away from a bar for the repeated bad behavior of its patrons, I suspect the bar owners would take notice and control whom they serve and who deals drugs at the clubs.
Unfortunately, there is no such law and Bash, Hush, Lotus, and the others will not behave responsibly.
It is only a matter of time before an innocent bystander is shot. I live a block from the Hush shootings and a bullet could very well have gone through my window while I slept. If someone is shot in his or her sleep, there will be hell to pay.
June 23, 2008
6:51 p.m.
Suggest removal
cleekmaker00 writes:
No matter what circumstances or social groups are involved, the bottom line is that it comes down to two sets of ideals:
'street' ideals vs. 'normal' ideals.
Street ideals mean that if someone does something wrong to you, your friends or family, then the sole response is retaliation. Look out for you and your own; don't care about anybody else.
Normal ideals are what most citizens cater to - someone does something wrong; let justice mete out the punishment.
Unfortunately, it doesn't matter who's involved or what ethnic group is involved. Street ideals in most neighborhoods (and we all know what neighborhoods we think of) take precedence over normal ideals most of the time. It's been that way for decades.
The sad thing is... that's how people were brought up. So taking guns or bullets away won't do anything; it's the street way of thinking that has to be dealt with, so everyone else can be safe.
June 23, 2008
6:59 p.m.
Suggest removal
rurude writes:
YourLocalHero;
Take a look at the pics of the parties involved. You shouldn't just judge before all the information is on the table. I am black and live in Aurora...I never party downtown.
June 23, 2008
8:48 p.m.
Suggest removal
ES writes:
Funny thing about the DNC. There was a major riot because gang members in Louisiana were upset at the protesters. The protesters blocked all the routes for the gangs to sell drugs. The gangs shot their 9mm into the protesters and started a riot. The protesters blamed the police (not the gang members) of shooting into the crowd.
The media reported the gang members side of the story (no surprise) and the riots continued for several days.
Listen Mayor. You are helpless to stop violence and keep up with your political connections with the Democratic Party. The Democratic party wants to free criminals instead of protecting the public. Your party is indebted to the ACLU and slaves to them. So shut your mouth and stop acting like your tough on crime.
June 23, 2008
8:56 p.m.
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EastVail writes:
Whoa. Hickenlooper looks pissed.
June 23, 2008
9 p.m.
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jay writes:
"The Democratic party wants to free criminals instead of protecting the public."
come on.
let's try to keep it between the ditches.
June 23, 2008
9:13 p.m.
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bxwatso writes:
I just thought about an exception to my dance club theory. The P.F. Chang's New Year's murder was not related to a dance club. It was a lying in wait murder.
So, let me rephrase my point. All of the LoDo shootings in the heat of passion were related to patrons of dodgy dance clubs.
Also, the blue horse is the least artistic, ugliest, and most objectionable thing I have ever seen in public in Denver. Wow, what an amazingly horrible, offensive, pointless piece of garbage. Denver should donate it to Aspen or something.
June 23, 2008
9:32 p.m.
Suggest removal
rickg19611 writes:
Hickenlooper? Isn't he the ex-mayor who left Denver months ago to be Obama's lapdog roaming the country, meeting with Democrat fatcats, begging for money to pay for the Democrat drunkfest in August?
June 23, 2008
9:35 p.m.
Suggest removal
davies writes:
Hizzoner: "If you use a gun in Denver, we're going to do everything we can to put you behind bars as long as we can."
Forgive this sheet-kicker from Canon City for asking, but is it not possible to use a gun legally in the City of Denver?
Also, I've seen some comments here about immigration, but no inquiries as to the residency status of these fine gentlemen. Now some will leap to say: "You racist bigoted pig! Just because they have Hispanic surnames, you assume they are illegal aliens!" to which I reply:
No I don't. That's why I would like to know their status.
June 23, 2008
10:06 p.m.
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davies writes:
bxwatso: Interesting posts. I hope you stick around for awhile.
June 23, 2008
11 p.m.
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redwhiteandBLUE writes:
Shaggy
Thanks ..I thought for sure I'd get deleted hah! still there.
June 23, 2008
11:20 p.m.
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redwhiteandBLUE writes:
It was brought to my attention that Bash nightclub is the only club with no dress code. So, it attracts these type of individuals.
Other clubs have to wear collar shirts. No t-shirts allowed.
Bash ages 18-up, Beta now is 18-up. All others are 21-up.
June 24, 2008
3:44 a.m.
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LOUIE writes:
I really hope this summer, and the premier events that will showcase the crown jewel of the Rocky Mountains, Denver, will show the world, America is a great nation of many diverse opinions and yet a united peoples, undivided in pursuit of freedom. I love to argue, debate, yell and stomp; my rights end at the tip of my fellow countryman's nose. Destuction of that which belongs to all of us, our city, is wrong and selfish to impose against the will of our nation as a whole. Many people of great diversity carry our flag with honor, to hand to our children the greatest gift and measure of mankind, freedom. The freedom to debate uncensored, without violence, that which governs all citizens who chose to unite arms. Our nations greatness rests of on the civility to hear the opinion of all freemen, great and small, rich or poor, blind to prejudice, without violence or bloodshed. I would truly love to be a citizen of Monaco. The royalty and the civility of gentlemen, still reigns in all matters among the citizenry. Instead, I live in the most powerful nation on earth, where we all kick each others muleskins bald, while slapping the chops of the rest of the world together as brothers. All of us with the same gift in hand: freedom. I hope we really become, that which those before us died to make come true for all men, of all nations: a melting pot of many, united against all who assail our freedoms. This most powerful and great nation, was paid for with the blood of our nations forefathers, who held this great sacred honor as our inheritance. Celebrate, debate, and argue, have manners and respect for all; observe the rules established, that facilitate this great dialogue of debate, that we as Americans enjoy so much.
June 24, 2008
4:15 a.m.
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LOUIE writes:
I worked for men who shot phonebooks with .45's to secure the attention of those in the room, thier opinion ruled. I carried out thier directives to the best of my ability. These men, powerful and wealthy, brilliant amongst the judgements of thier peers. They never suffered to repeat themselves, they suffered no fool. America, look at the your citizens and fellow counrtymen; we have the greatest minds in all of humanity here in America! We rule, we kick the world's muleskins bald! This nation belongs to all of us, stand up when her colors pass by, many died died with that flag and a dream in hand. Just don't let anyone destroy her assets...
June 24, 2008
7:20 a.m.
Hambone writes:
(This comment was removed by the site staff.)
June 24, 2008
7:29 a.m.
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jtriska writes:
Denver is safe???? Ha! I will never spend a dime of my money in that terdhole of a town after dark. It's ok Mon.- Fri. 9am.- 6p.m. After that it's left to the thugs, bums, ho's and gun toting loser wannabe's that are too afraid to put up their dukes and get a whoopin. Hate to burst your bubble Hickster but it is only going to get worse.
Let me take another looksie here at the perps. Scrolling....scrolling.......Whoa, what a shock!!! Messicans. One died HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. You deserved it. Hope it hurt like hell.
Judge, jury, executioner. PERFECTION!
June 24, 2008
7:40 a.m.
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gary writes:
The City of Denver reaps what it sows...a sanctuary for illegals and gangs.
The Hick can talk...but he needs to kick...the illegals out and start enforcing the laws!!
Nuff Said!
June 24, 2008
7:51 a.m.
Suggest removal
gr8fuldude writes:
Proof that our fathers were right when they told us that nothing good can happen after midnight. Go home and get a good night's sleep already.
June 24, 2008
8:46 a.m.
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Willis writes:
Why is this 'bar' not held liable?
You would think that after all of the 2am killings occuring after these nice folks leave the bars that something would be done about it...
take the BAC off of the dead bodies, if they were intoxicated shut down these classy establishments.
but you don't want to hurt the revenue pulled in by the late night bar scene.
June 24, 2008
8:56 a.m.
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timeandagain writes:
artstarzz -
You are a very poor advocate for Obama. His biggest hurdle in the upcoming election is going to be his perceived elitism. As a supporter, I think it is a mistake to tie your support of him into an email that is laced with an elitist attitude and uses the word "redneck" 78 times. Please slow down...
June 24, 2008
9:01 a.m.
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temurlan writes:
Philly murders last year 500+. Denver murders last year 54.
Philly population: 1,555,000. Denver population: 580,000.
So under the Hick's plan we should have around 150 murders annually.
Enough said.
Nobama 08
June 24, 2008
9:18 a.m.
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mytwosense writes:
Yiota, I don't think that the solution to ending gang activity - responsible for much of the recent violence - is as simple as cracking down on illegal immigration.
What they need to do is keep gang members away from each other, and thus, they won't be a gang anymore.
And here is where law enforcement technology can step in:
Convicted gang members should be required to wear an electronic monitoring device for at least three years. There is actually a form of such monitoring now available that sends instant alerts to law enforcement whenever the device wearer moves out of an authorized zone, or even too close to the vicinity of a past gang cohort.
A lot of these gang members, thugs that they are, actually have no choice but to stay in the gang if they want to stay alive. Well, wearing such a device would give them a real excuse to stay away from their past gang members. "Hey, I'm under court order to stay away from you and they'll know if I don't."
What citizens need to do is urge our legislators to enact such programs. The technology is there, and so is the funding. It would be cheaper than just sending these people back to jail (where they actually meet more gang members) and a more surefire way to keep gang members away from each other.
(By the way, this form of electronic monitoring should also be required for convicted sex offenders, in my opinion.)
June 24, 2008
9:19 a.m.
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timeandagain writes:
artstarzz -
Again, stop your public support of Obama. You are a terrible advocate and you say things that even make me question the people with whom I will be voting on a candidate. Leave the Obama advocacy to others PLEASE!
June 24, 2008
9:22 a.m.
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mytwosense writes:
And let me just clarify that I don't mean this surveillance should take the place of jail time, at all. What I'm suggesting is that after they serve their sentences, they should be fitted with these devices. A lot of gang members go right back to their old gangs after serving their time in jail; I think this would be one of the most effective ways available to prevent this.
June 24, 2008
9:31 a.m.
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hinona writes:
The City of Denver has the power to revoke or suspend liquor liscences when it deems a place, usually a bar, is a public nuiscance.That's what it is. Club Bash is the hangout for the gangsta's . Just look at the photo on page 4 of todays rocky. 3 hoods "hangin". Not looking for anything good to happen.
The groups that hang there are looking for trouble. Get rid of the s**t that hangs out there. Rap, hip hop, etc. just invite trouble.
What a diservice to the P.D. mentioning that the office involved was involved in two other shootings. I only wish he were involved in many more.
Mayor Hick has his head up his a** when he talks about a safe city.
Go begging for funds for the DNC!! Instead, do your real job and run a safe city.
June 24, 2008
9:45 a.m.
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augustwest writes:
hello,
Mark Tabullo-Zuniga used a shotgun. it wasn't gang related? sure. it's not hunting season is it? was his gun registered? extremely doubtful. we won't find out from this reporter.
2 gang cops broke up the fight? but this wasn't gang related.
right.
Tabullo-Zuniga lived where exactly? what do people know about him?what was his criminal record? we don't know.
perhaps the reporter can go beyond the police dept's press release.
wait a second, that would require thought and some real investigative journalism.
June 24, 2008
9:54 a.m.
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SickNTired writes:
artstarzz .. Mean time (meanwhile?) people are killing each other. Stop selling bullets. That is what kills people.
So are people killing people or are bullets? Make up your mind. Rosie O'Donnell's spoon isn't what's making her fat! Nor, for that matter, is your pencil making you misspell.
June 24, 2008
10:01 a.m.
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rickg19611 writes:
""If you use a gun in Denver, we're going to do everything we can to put you behind bars as long as we can," the mayor said at a news conference "
So... according to Hickenlooper, if you run down the street hacking thousands with a machete, then it will be considered a lower priority crime. Typical Hickenliberal.... focus on the gun.... ignore the criminal.
June 24, 2008
10:02 a.m.
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mytwosense writes:
Shaggy: "Do you understand that Obamas plan to put a windfall tax on Oil companies profits will be passed onto us, the consumers vis higher price at the pump?"
Are you saying that the individual oil companies will jack up prices in direct proportion to the amount of profits they lost due to a windfall tax?
"Oil companies make an 8 to 10% profit on Oil for doing all the work. The Federal Government makes 15% profit on Oil for providing nothing."
Providing nothing? What about the millions of acres of public land (YOUR land, Shaggy!) that oil companies extract resources from??
Shaggy: "btw, most companies who only make an 8 or 10% profit are put out of business. In other words their profit margins are totally within reason."
No one is complaining about their profit *margins.* And you're wrong that an 8 to 10% margin would put most companies out of business. It's not an uncommon margin, actually.
But back to oil *profits.* You might be interested in this article, where it's noted that:
"If Exxon Mobil were a country, its 2007 profit would exceed the gross domestic product of nearly two thirds of the 183 nations in the World Bank's economic rankings..."
and...
"Exxon Mobil's profits are 80 percent higher than those of General Electric, which used to be the largest U.S. company by market capitalization before Exxon left it in the dust in 2005. The new economy? Microsoft earns about a third as much money. And next to Exxon, the world's largest retailer, Wal-Mart, looks like a quaint boutique, with annual profits of about $11 billion."
http://www.usnews.com/articles/busine...
June 24, 2008
10:11 a.m.
Suggest removal
BJG writes:
Mayor Loopy needs to do something soon or HIS business in LoDo will be the next scene of a shooting. Closing the bars before 2 am will not help if people are allowed to drink too much. LoDo the "happy place" has now become a problem. Since Loopy took all of the cops off the streets of Denver, except in LoDo and there are still problems what's he gonna do?
June 24, 2008
10:28 a.m.
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dbsturgeon writes:
Simple, potential solution to this particular tinderbox: Let the bars set their own hours like in real cities. The problem and danger with downtown in general and Lodo in particular is that all of the drunks stagger out of all the bars at 2 a.m. No quantity of police can control all of that... Then all cars have to be off city streets by 2 as well, forcing some folks to drive who shouldn't... Try to catch a cab at 2 a.m. as well... Probaby 1 out of 3 vehicles on the road coming out of Lodo is DWAI at least...
So, let the bars stay open. Some might choose to close earlier. Some will cater to the late night crowd. Stagger the flow...
June 24, 2008
10:31 a.m.
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mytwosense writes:
Shaggy, you state you're a business owner. When you set prices for your services or products, do you look over what you had to pay in taxes the previous year, and raise your prices to exactly make up for that amount?
Also, every time you have a new expense, do you raise your prices accordingly to make up for that expense?
Just curious. Because I'm wondering how you haven't eventually priced yourself out of the market if raising prices is the only way you deal with taxes and new costs.
June 24, 2008
10:39 a.m.
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mytwosense writes:
Yiota: "Mytwosense, the problem with locking up gang members is that gang life is extremely prevalent inside the jails and prisons. So putting them in jail only increases or continues their involvement with gangs."
Agree. Many people don't realize this, either, so their only solution is to build more jails and prisons. Very expensive for the taxpayers and we're ultimately paying for a breeding ground for gang members to network with other gang members. And like you said, they have gangs in jail, too.
"The ankle braclets are an interesting idea, but I think a gang member would just cut it off."
Actually, they've made significant advances here. Some of the devices are virtually tamperproof now, and if they are removed or even attempted to be removed, law enforcement gets an immediate alert.
I'm not saying it's a solution that keeps someone from *initially* joining a gang...but it's probably one of the most effective solutions to break up a gang once it's been started. And over time, that will have a real effect on the number of practicing gang members.
Of course, other solutions must be in place to keep someone from joining in the first place. And I really believe we have to address some societal problems there. A lot of teens join gangs because, for better or for worse, they're seeking some kind of identity, affiliation with others, etc. I wouldn't be surprised if most of these kids come from some very dysfunctional homes where they don't get that sense of security. Gangs are a poor substitute, but it may seem like that's all there is an alternative.
June 24, 2008
10:42 a.m.
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mytwosense writes:
artstarzz, I didn't state that about your solution. YIOTA did, in referencing one of your earlier posts in a response he was making to me about gang activity.
June 24, 2008
10:54 a.m.
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hikingartist writes:
Vince Lombardi? Wasn't he coached by Sleepy Jim Crowley, one of the Four Horsemen of Notre Dame? I don't know about you, but I would not tangle with a guy that has been coached by one of the Four Horsemen. I mean, the coach could just be pestilence, but then again he could be death, you just don't know.
June 24, 2008
10:55 a.m.
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jay writes:
"most companies who only make an 8 or 10% profit are put out of business"
this is completely ignorant.
a 6% net profit margin per year is fantastic. 8% is an extra week of vacation. 10% is breaking out the dom on new years.
get an economics education shaggy.
oh....and since when is being a handyman "owning a business"?
June 24, 2008
11:14 a.m.
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jay writes:
"Vote Obama as President and let him pull the pull out of Iraq so the Oil heads can beblown up by the terrorists."
debunked myth
"pull the troops let Iran move in and fill the void, which they said they would be very happy to do so."
debunked myth
"Most companies who make a small profit such as an 8 or 10 percent will be out of business."
that's "net profit margin" shasggy...and yes...debunked myth
same old stuff from you my friend
June 24, 2008
11:23 a.m.
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mytwosense writes:
Shaggy, actually I do run my own business. And I'm simply asking you if the ONLY way you deal with new costs and taxes is by raising your prices. I didn't ask you if you'd ever done this, I asked you if this is your only method of dealing with new costs and taxes.
The reason why I'm asking you this should be clear, too: Because you are making absolute statements that businesses always pass on new costs and taxes to the consumer. This is a typical statement of supplysiders who adamantly oppose corporate taxes.
But it's simply not the case and if you truly own your own business, you would never make such an ignorant statement.
Sure, *sometimes* there is no choice but to raise prices. However, as a business owner, I also know that I can't price what the market won't bear. In those cases, I need to figure out *another way* to offset new costs instead of raising my prices. Often such efforts are going to be focused on drumming up more business, not penalizing my existing customers with constantly increasing prices. Or adding new services, or looking for a less expensive supplier, or even changing a production method.
That being said, I wouldn't put it past the oil companies to externalize any new taxes in full to customers. They can get away with it, too, because we really don't have much choice when it comes to finding a cheaper gas station to go to, do we? Gas prices are pretty much the same across companies; they only vary by market locale and not much at that.
Without price being a competitive advantage, the monopolized oil industry can do whatever the hell they want at this point.
And people like you applaud this state of affairs - and suggest we increase drilling to feed this anti-consumer system. It's like keeping a predator at bay by throwing it all the food you have left in your kitchen!
June 24, 2008
noon
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jay writes:
yes...willful ignorance is exactly the type of debate tactic you like yiota.
alright, let's go over them again, kids.
"Vote Obama as President and let him pull the pull out of Iraq so the Oil heads can beblown up by the terrorists."
obama's policy stance in iraq will in no way allow the "oil heads" to be "blown up by the terrorists". he simply wants to take some of our combat troops out of iraq so they can fight the folks who actually had something to do with 9/11. wouldn't it be nice if we could fight folks who consisted of more than 5% al qaeda? sounds like a pretty good idea to me...and the majority of the country.
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/pdf...
http://www.pollingreport.com/iraq.htm
"pull the troops let Iran move in and fill the void, which they said they would be very happy to do so."
no one is going to completely pull out of iraq. we'll have a significant military footprint in that country for decades. the iranian boogeymen aren't going to "move in and fill the void". we're not the only folks that have a vested interest in one of the largest oil reserves on the planet. have some commonsense. the process of dividing up the oil from iraq won't even begin for years and will continue for year so relax. no one is going to leave the keys to iraq in the ignition.
"Most companies who make a small profit such as an 8 or 10 percent will be out of business."
again...take an economics class. 8 to 10% net profit margin is fantastic. if you're going out of business because of those kinds of returns then you're not smart enough to be in business in the first place and should probably stay away from heavy machinery. capitalistic darwinism at its finest.
June 24, 2008
12:14 p.m.
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MeAgainstMachine writes:
Artstarzz - here is a little info you may wanna brush up on. You need to quit trying to fuel the fire between races with your whitey and redneck rants. You can't deny good ol' fashioned statistics.
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide...
June 24, 2008
12:51 p.m.
Suggest removal
Cowboy63 writes:
Hickenlooper is right!
It IS safe in HIS neighborhood! Of course we can't all live in the gated fortresses out local politicians do.
June 24, 2008
1:39 p.m.
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gary writes:
Denver will never be "safe" as long as it is a sanctuary city for illegals!!
You reap what you sow Hickenlooper...keep on sowing the bad seeds!!
Nuff Said!
June 24, 2008
3:29 p.m.
Suggest removal
jay writes:
yiota, please read the link.
"Wasnt it immediately withdrawl with everyone out in 16 months?"
no
"Really the dems are ready to stay and fight the fight in Iraq? I dont think thats what Obama is running on. Where did you read this?"
please read the link. no one is talking about abandoning iraq and letting iran take over.
"This is the same analagy you have to use with the war in Iraq. If we are broadcasting when we are leaving then the enemy has the advantage."
this is a myth according to some of our own top generals and the secdef.
maybe you should just read...but the link would be a good start.
shaggito, calm down, take a breath. you're rambling.
do a little research here. i'm not making this up. get a little knowledge under your belt and i think you'll find that i'm not leading you astray here.
June 24, 2008
7:48 p.m.
Suggest removal
GetReal writes:
Hickenlooper needs to do what Washington D.C. did to eradicate their gang problem- employ a dose of Liberal political correctness.
Simply rename them and "POOF" they're gone!-
http://washingtontimes.com/news/2008/...
Maybe Hick and Ritter can commission a "Blue Ribbon Committee" for a couple of million of tax payer
dollars to study the idea.
Renaming illegal immigrants "Undocumented Workers" sure has solved that problem huh?
June 24, 2008
8:08 p.m.
Suggest removal
NoCoptersHere writes:
What the hell? Not tolerate those who wish to do harm to others? Uhh the military was just training here, training for death, training to do harm to others. YOU FOOL NOBODY HICKENLOOPER
June 25, 2008
4:22 a.m.
Suggest removal
STOPUSAGiveaway writes:
The mayor is going to try to make up for his former employee who brutally murdered a Denver Police officer performing a 2nd job at a wedding!
Too Late MAYOR--you have your destiny dug in too deep to get out now.
Your welcome magnet = free ride for illegals!
THE RACE adores your inability to take your Oath of Office and uphold it--other than hot air blowing in the pollution..........
It is too bad others have to die for your cowardly aiding and abetting..
A child grows up without the father because you hired an illegal.....
June 25, 2008
10:14 a.m.
Suggest removal
redwhiteandBLUE writes:
It's too, too late for Hick to try to clean up LoDO NOW, after the fact. If he would of crack down on illegals he wouldn't have this problem. He wants a sanctuary city and yet try to crack down on crime? First things first.
June 25, 2008
12:45 p.m.
Suggest removal
LibertyOrDeath writes:
First, let me say condolences to the police who fired in self-defense and in defense of the citizenry. Everyone seems to overlook the effect of having to take a life, even justifiably.
Second, my condolences to the families of those who lost loved ones and all the others who are and were affected by this senseless violence.
Third: Pushing for ever more Draconian gun laws only serves to disarm the lawful and shift power to the criminal element. Numerous scientific, peer-reviewed, scholarly research has time and again shown that lawfully armed citizens reduce crime and violence. Firearms are used 60 times more often to protect lives than to take lives.
Of the approximately 2,500,000 times citizens use guns to defend themselves per year, 92% merely brandish their gun or fire a warning shot to scare off their attackers. Less than 8% of the time does a citizen wound his or her attacker, and in less than one in a thousand instances is the attacker killed. 11% of police shootings kill an innocent person - about 2% of shootings by citizens kill an innocent person.
I hope Denver doesn't continue with more gun restrictions on the law abiding.
As Theodore Roosevelt so aptly put it: "NO greater WRONG can ever be done than to put a GOOD man at the MERCY of a BAD man, while telling him not to defend himself or his fellows; in NO way can he success of EVIL be made SURER or QUICKER."
Keep that in mind Denver, as you formulate your response. Do not use this atrocity as an excuse to enact another, greater atrocity, by further disarming the lawful and further restricting their rights - basic human rights - the right of self-defense. Do NOT create more victims.