ROSEN: Hard-core parade of fools
Mike Rose
Published June 20, 2008 at 12:05 a.m.
By Labor Day, the Democratic National Convention in Denver will have come and gone. Good riddance, especially to the Re-Create 68 crazies who have already gotten far more publicity than their presumptuous cause deserves. Now they're complaining because their daily parades through downtown Denver during the convention will be limited to the hours between 11 a.m. and 3 p.m. Parades? You mean like the Macy's Thanksgiving Day parade in New York City, with floats and marching bands and giant balloons of Disney characters? Or the parades we hold to honor veterans or to celebrate a Broncos Super Bowl victory? No. This is a parade of fools strutting their irrelevant, self-important brand of radical politics in the face of mainstream society. Even the usual suspects on the left - groups like Code Pink, the Green Party, the American Friends Service Committee, the Rocky Mountain Peace and Justice Center, etc. - have abandoned the Re-Create 68 rabble as too extreme and confrontational.
Of course, their parades are limited to this time block. Otherwise, they'd be interfering with rush-hour traffic, disrupting multitudes of commuters. There are limits to how far normal Denverites are obliged to go to accommodate the antics of these preening malcontents, nostalgic for the violent street demonstrations of the 1968 Chicago convention. They've already declared their intention to break the law. The First Amendment protects their freedom to peacefully assemble but not to trespass in violation of city permit policies. And while they're entitled to exercise their rights to free speech, those rights end where the rights of others are infringed. The city also has a responsibility to protect the rights of DNC delegates, protecting them from harassment at the hands of radical demonstrators hellbent on confrontation and craving media attention.
Free speech? Let them write a letter to the editor, or a book or take out an ad. It's no secret what these would-be revolutionaries believe in. The icon of a raised fist on their Web site accompanies the menu of daily protest themes, with each one focusing "on a symptom of the disease of an Imperialist, Capitalist, Racist system." Glen Spagnuolo, Marxist revolutionary-in-chief, describes his group as representing minorities, anarchists, communists, socialists and radicals. He expects 25,000 people from across the country to join his Denver protest. So what? Whom do they represent? And why should anyone else care? Do the math: Twenty-five thousand people out of a population of more than 300 million is eight one-thousandths of 1 percent. That's less than one person out of 10,000 in the country. Even if it were a hundred times that number, what would it matter? So what if a hard-core band of "anarchists, communists and radicals" takes to the streets to indulge their rage and self-disenfranchisement. Why in the world should such tantrums affect any rational citizen's fundamental beliefs or positions on important issues?
HBO recently ran a multipart series based on David McCullough's popular biography of John Adams. In one of the early episodes, an angry crowd of Bostonians is seen venting its frustration at British soldiers. American colonists often took to the streets to protest the tyranny of King George III imposed by his appointed governors, magistrates and military forces. The Boston Tea Party was a demonstration against taxation without representation. One can sympathize with such actions and understand the justification of resorting to property damage and rebellion when no political or legal remedies were available. That was then, this is now.
In our constitutional republic, representative democracy offers ample opportunities for electoral majorities to have their will translated into public policy, with the courts protecting individual rights. I'm not impressed by the theatrics of those who take their politics to the streets. The ballot box is the appropriate venue for orderly change or support of public policy.
Mike Rosen's radio show airs weekdays from 9 a.m. to noon on 850 KOA. He can be reached by e-mail at mikerosen@850koa.com.
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June 20, 2008
5:18 a.m.
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Snapple writes:
The only reason they matter is that they will destroy property and get people killed.
They only want freedom for themselves.
June 20, 2008
5:41 a.m.
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HolierThanThou writes:
Representative democracy? Electoral majorities?
Courts protecting individual rights?
I seem to recall a forgotten candidate called Al Gore who won the majority vote in 2000 by over 500,000 votes. What happened to President Gore?
We got Bushed. Now it's war, debt, unemployment, and to top it off: our own government is spying on our emails and tapping our phones without warrants.
Rosen is nothing more than a propagandist, conservative crackpot, and habitual liar. We've traded the relatively mild and benevolent dictatorship of the long dead King George III, for the bloody tyranny of the appointed King George Bush.
If you're looking for fools, you need look no further than the insane occupants of the White House. Those lunatics fabricated a completely bogus case for war in Iraq. That war has killed thousands of men, women, and children for nothing more than the nostalgic enjoyment of a good old-fashioned set piece war. In this case, it's a war that is entirely counterproductive to our purpose of getting rid of the resurgent Taliban and Al Qaeda enemy now running a chunk of Pakistan and most of Afghanistan.
And before we get started on the evils of Communism, let us reflect upon how we've been defeated by Communism. Stroll the aisles of any seller of dry goods today and try to find goods that are Made in USA. Although they are trying to hide those tags, nearly everything we now buy is made in communist China. They've stripped America of her industry as well as the Soviets stripped East Germany in the late 1940s.
How did Communist China accomplish this tremendous defeat of the United States of America?
Here's my suggestion to the gentle reader: if they've taken away your job, or your pay has been cut, or your home has been foreclosed, or you've had to fight a health insurance company, or you're poor or getting poorer, or you've been robbed of your career, or you're being fleeced by the oil royals because you have no alternative mode of transportation then you have good reasons to protest. And you have reasons to fight.
June 20, 2008
6:49 a.m.
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taoistblockhead writes:
What’s the difference between the Elephant Party and the Donkey Party?
Republicans advance the exploitation of man by man. Democrats advance the opposite.
June 20, 2008
7:02 a.m.
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Michael writes:
"I seem to recall a forgotten candidate called Al Gore who won the majority vote in 2000 by over 500,000 votes. What happened to President Gore?" - HTT
For possibly the 1 millionth time, there is not now, nor has there ever been a "popular vote" for President of the United States. There is not even just one election for POTUS every 4 years, there are 50, as each state singularly elects who they think should lead our republic of 50 separate and sovereign states which comprise our great republic. That this falsehood (popular vote for POTUS) can continue to be discussed and cheered on by idiots who have no clue about how our system was designed and how it works, is a statement on our public education system and the venemous partisanship of the left that continues 8 years after the fact. Like George Bush or don't like George Bush...or hate him if you must, but please let go of the fairy tale about popular votes and lost elections, all you do is continue to paint yourselves as uneducated and angry morons.
June 20, 2008
7:37 a.m.
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yaakovwatkins writes:
Clinton didn't win the popular vote in 1992 either.
Holier than thou, you make some good points. But you utterly fail to address the central issue that Recreate68 wants to abridge the free association rights of Denverites by disrupting normal life in downtown Denver. The people who will suffer the most are hourly workers who depend on RTD. RTD's schedules are threatened by these demonstrators and these hourly workers will lose pay because they can't get to work on time.
June 20, 2008
7:45 a.m.
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Michael writes:
"Stroll the aisles of any seller of dry goods today and try to find goods that are Made in USA. Although they are trying to hide those tags, nearly everything we now buy is made in communist China. They've stripped America of her industry..." HTT
As long as people like HTT continue to spread the lies about American manufacturing being "lost", "gone", or "outsourced", it is necessary to counter the lies and the propaganda. Yes, go to Walmart to buy a blender or a shirt or a cheap piece of electronics and it will have been made overseas. However, the next time you are sitting on the tarmac waiting to take off, look around you, most EVERYTHING on that Boeing jet was made in America, from those GE engines to the fuesalage, to the avionics and seats and electronics. Not to mention everything that is used at the airport to service and manage the planes. The next time you are at the hospital, take a look around at all the medical equipment, from the MRI, to the CAT Scan, to the blood pressure monitior, to all the disposables used. Not to mention the building and everhting in it. All American made. Or the next time you drive through farm country or past a construction site, take a look at the John Deere and Caterpillar equipment out there working - American made. And that chip in the PC your on, is probably an Intel or an AMD chip made in a wafer fab facility here in the USA. Not to mention all that great software that allows us all to be doing what we are doing now.
All you have to do is OPEN YOUR EYES and you will see great American products all over the place serving our needs. If all you do is walk the aisles of Walmart, then you have no clue what the modern American manufacturing environment is all about and the 14.4 MILLION people that work in it everyday (Dept. of Labor stat).
June 20, 2008
8:04 a.m.
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JimmyB writes:
HolierThanThou:
Bush IS and idiot. He will NOT be re-elected to office. We WILL have a "new" President come January 2009. It WILL be Obama, or McCain. Those on the right will wail and cry "foul", should it be Obama. Those on the left will wail and cry "foul", should it be McCain. All of that's a given.
After reading your post, you sound like a "propagandist" of the left. Is that any better than you accusing Rosen of being a "propagandist" of the right?
Other than your normal rant against conservatives and "W", your post addresses Rosen's rant about protesters and free speech, how?
So, tell us, how DO you feel about groups like Code Pink, the Green Party, the American Friends Service Committee, the Rocky Mountain Peace and Justice Center, etc., who have distanced themselves from Glen Spagnuolo and Recreate68? What have they discovered about Spagnuolo and his group, which would cause such a rift?
IS Spagnuolo's right to free speech more important than the rights of others, as Spagnuolo believes it to be?
I'm just asking.....
June 20, 2008
8:20 a.m.
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rickg19611 writes:
Wow..... liberals sure are slow learners. Most 10 year olds can learn how the United States Constitution and election process works in a few days. HolierThanNothing, Froward, and a handful of other slow learners still can't figure it out after 7 YEARS of repeatedly being told how it works.
No wonder the clowns get confused by simple ballots, and then end up causing some "hanging chads" for their minions to whine about.....
June 20, 2008
8:40 a.m.
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Kat2denver writes:
Until Spagnuala backs up his fight for free speech for ALL by supporting the Columbus Day Parade, he has NO crediblity. The guy is a joke and a hypocrite. He only believes in rights for his own agenda.
He is itching for a physical confrontation with the police and will do everything he can to make sure this occurs. And no matter how correctly the police respond to threat/danger (to people and personal property) the prostestors create, they will want us to think it will all be the fault of the police. I am dismayed at the amount of air time KHOW is giving this waste of space. I don't know why KHOW feels the need to give this guy a puplit.
If these groups were not just selfish media whores, then why not protest in a way that does not threaten the people of Denver? Tax payer dollars going to make sure no one gets hurt...don't see Recreate68 offering to pay for all the extra costs they are bringing to Denver.
Don't forget - this guy is a friend and supporter of Ward Churchill.
June 20, 2008
8:44 a.m.
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HolierThanThou writes:
RE Michael and his ilk,
As someone who is in the market for new motherboards, I've also noticed that none of these is Made in USA or even Taiwan anymore. They are now Made in China as are the case, the peripherals, the keyboard, and the mouse. It's only a matter of time before greedy traitors accept bribes to give those Communists the chip manufacturing operations, too.
You can apologize and squirm around all you want. Learn Mandarin so that you may properly kowtow. Go buy Mao's little book. It's a formula for success. The store shelves of America are full of the proof.
And I'll admit that lately I'm frustrated. I buy tools. My experience with Chinese-made tools is that they quickly go to the recycling bin. Now once-reputable companies like Skil, Milwaukee, DeWalt and others are offering me Chinese crap with their names branded on that. I might just as well buy direct from Mao Incorporated and save myself the extra money I pay for a now useless name brand. The same goes for machinery, not just tools.
There is no hope for economic traitors and their apologists. They will never grow a backbone much less brains enough to figure this out.
Let us pray that the harm they are doing to America will come back to punish them with all the misery and hardship that they're foisting on millions of working Americans today.
June 20, 2008
8:52 a.m.
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HolierThanThou writes:
The "election" in 2000 was a fraud. Read this:
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/1...
June 20, 2008
8:52 a.m.
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dilligaf writes:
Rosen your a class one idiot.
June 20, 2008
8:52 a.m.
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conservative111 writes:
Yes, we are a constitutional republic, but we are NOT a representative DEMOCRACY. We are a REPRESENTATIVE REPUBLIC. Get you facts straight Rosen.
June 20, 2008
8:54 a.m.
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WestminsterJ writes:
The problem with Spagnola and his ilk is that they furnish right-wingers like Mike Rosen with a perfect diversion from the real issues that should be being discussed. Thanks to Glenn, Mike Rosen doesn't have to confront the tanking economy, the economic liquidation of the middle class, and the debacles in Iraq and Afghanistan.
June 20, 2008
8:58 a.m.
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JimmyB writes:
HolierThanThou:
re. your post of 8:44a.m.
Again, how does THIS rant about Chinese "goods", or your original post at 5:41a.m., address Rosen's rant about protesters?
Rosen raises questions about the rift between Glen Spagnuolo's Recreate68 and other protest groups, but instead of staying on point, you piss and moan about the Chinese and the products they produce.
Are you sure you're on the right blog?
June 20, 2008
9:01 a.m.
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temurlan writes:
Good article, couldn't agree more.
Michael, well said.
HolierThanThou, "It's only a matter of time before greedy traitors accept bribes to give those Communists the chip manufacturing operations, too." So what do you suggest, nationalizing the industries? Wouldn't that be even closer to communism? Without our current capitalist system, there wouldn't even be a chip industry.
June 20, 2008
9:08 a.m.
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P_Denver writes:
HTT
I agree totally with the first part of your first message: Bush is unworthy of the office, and has made terrible decisions.
As to the second, I would ask you to consider HOW the Communist government "took away our jobs." In the early days, they dictated wages and "benefits". We could do the same here, and get all our jobs back. All you need to do is elect legislators who mandate all factory pay at $2.00 A DAY!
NOT per hour -- per DAY! Then, they need to dictate the price of rice. And nationalize the power companies and have them produce electricity only between 6 AM and 6 PM, then everything goes dark.
Of course, you need a really strong military to keep your people in line. To prevent rebellion, you keep them in the dark a second way: control all press, deny internet access, and restrict travel. It's simple. Of course, you need to write-off the thousands who starve during the process.
If you can subjugate your people long enough to build a bankroll, then, little by little, you can admit the communist system has some inherent limitations. You then release capitalism into select areas. Of course you can't call them Capitalist Areas, so you make up a cool name, like "Special Economic Zones." Hong Kong was the model. Guangdong was the first in the mainland. Their overnight success spurred others, so you continue a rollout across the country until all you have left that's Communist is the political system. The economic model is Capitalist -- because THAT'S WHAT WORKS.
I don't care what you say -- I lived there and watched it happen.
Is our economy evolving? Yes. We’ve gone from agrarian to basic manufacturing. Now we’re going from commodity manufacturing to something else. The free market will decide. Machines can stuff circuit boards. Robot welders build cars. We’ll find something else to do.
June 20, 2008
9:10 a.m.
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Michael writes:
"As someone who is in the market for new motherboards, I've also noticed that none of these is Made in USA or even Taiwan anymore." - Holier Than NOTHING at All
If you are REALLY interested to know why you cannot purchase a motherboard that is made in the USA (as opposed to just your constant WHINING!!!), look no further than the EPA and the enviro-crowd. As someone who has sold pick-n-place equipment, wave solder equipment, and all the other equipment necessary to manufacture electronic boards and circuitry, the cost to do that in the USA is too prohibiitive due to the waste products and effluent created to make them. Local governments do not want them in their backyard. So guess what?????? That industry (along with others that create waste products not desired in anyone's backyard) has migrated out of the USA. How about we put a circuit factory next to your house??? Are you OK with that? We can't bi%$# about losing manufacturing and jobs when we push these industries out of our communities, cities, states, and the country because we don't want the by-products or waste that comes with manufacturing.
June 20, 2008
9:18 a.m.
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JimmyB writes:
WestminsterJ:
Yes, the economy, the continuing wars in Afghanistan/Iraq and the hardship of the American "middle class" are important, but what's wrong with discussing what a lot of people see as Spagnuolo's and his group's thinly veiled threats against the city of Denver, during the upcoming convention?
Is it because the article was written by Rosen? Would you be more willing to discuss what's in the article if the author were Paul Campos?
June 20, 2008
9:30 a.m.
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JYP3500 writes:
Mike, excellent article. I would suggest expanding your “parade of fools” list to include the people who own, operate & visit Moveon.org, Dailykos, MediaMatters, Huffingtonpost. Although they too only make up a fraction of 1 percent of the population, they are the ones who make Liberals & the Democratic Party look like morons. With all these fringe people here in August, it ought to be Denver’s version of the Marti Gras.
June 20, 2008
9:35 a.m.
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p_myers661 writes:
HTT
You seem to miss the irony of your posts. We do not become Comnunist because we trade with China. China becomes more capitalist. That is why they demand more goods, raw materials and oil from the rest of the world. They have already discovered that having a little bit of free enterprise is like having a little bit of pregnancy. China is quickly becoming another market driven economy.
But, to return to the wise questions above:
What does this have to do with Recreate 68? I have one answer for you.
It is the same type of reasoning that r68 will use to justify their actions and violence. Were I the Denver police I'd set up a facility in Pueblo or perhaps Alamosa for processing and dealing with the bail and other issues of these protesters. Let them spend a day getting there, a day or two in holding and then a day in court with a high bail amount being set. After that the protesters and their friends will be busy finding transportation back. IF the holding sites were changed daily the big money behind them (if any) would be spent moving them and bailing them out. We could justify it by making special courts to "expedite" the processing.
I believe the city has also set a condition that to break the law is to lose all permits. That is most likely the reason the others have left R 68 alone. They want to keep their permits.
We need to understand that these people are NOT members of the Democratic party. They do have things in common but are separate in both message and action.
Rosen is right about R68 and their partners in the ACLU. We can use the law to stop violence and destruction by keeping this bunch on a tight leash.
June 20, 2008
9:39 a.m.
Suggest removal
irisman writes:
The discussion is getting pretty far off the original topic. Rosen has a legitimate concern that parades should be scheduled so as not to tie up rush hour traffic. Earlier this year the President's motorcade tied up rush hour traffic when he was on his way to a private fund raiser in Cherry Hills. I didn't hear Rosen complaining then.
June 20, 2008
10:08 a.m.
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drtbkr writes:
"I seem to recall a forgotten candidate called Al Gore who won the majority vote in 2000 by over 500,000 votes. What happened to President Gore?"
It's hard to believe people like HolierThanThou are still spouting this nonsense. I didn't even waste my time reading the rest of his post because he lost all credibility with this statement. Take a civics lesson and get back to us.
June 20, 2008
10:51 a.m.
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Cowboy63 writes:
HolierThanThou writes: "What happened to President Gore?..."
(sigh)
There was no President Gore. He lost.
Guess what? Obama is going to lose too.
((Note to webmaster: can we limit the posts to 200 characters or less? If you can't say what you need in that space - you're just incoherently rambling.))
June 20, 2008
12:16 p.m.
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ItsJustme writes:
I'm sorry Cowboy63, your post must be abbreviated:
HolierThanThou writes: "What happened to President Gore?..."
(sigh)
There was no President Gore. He lost.
Guess what? Obama is going to lose too.
((Note to webmaster: can we limit the posts to 200 characters or less? If you can't say what y
In the future, please limit to 200 characters or less.
The management. ;-)
June 20, 2008
12:25 p.m.
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CHunter writes:
Irisman..agreed about the traffic tie-ups, of course no one was complaining when Bill and Al did the same thing either.
June 20, 2008
12:46 p.m.
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Eli writes:
"As someone who is in the market for new motherboards, I've also noticed that none of these is Made in USA or even Taiwan anymore. They are now Made in China as are the case, the peripherals, the keyboard, and the mouse."
Just an FYI, Abit and AMI make motherboards in the USA. Micron Technology makes RAM in the USA. Eurotech keyboards are made in the USA (seriously). IBM monitors are made in the U.S. (albeit with components made both in the US and overseas).
June 20, 2008
12:47 p.m.
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olsonmt writes:
P_Denver, great post! Holier Than Thou would be just fine making $2 per day in his glorious Chinese factory because he would be content to slurp from the communist goverment teat. He's on here every single day expressing his opinion openly and without serious censure, yet he uses that freedom to praise CHINA! Ha ha ha ha. Ask the Chinese about participating in discussion boards on their newspaper websites. Oh, that's right. They DON'T have any! Sounds like paradise to me.
June 20, 2008
12:48 p.m.
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jay writes:
"This is a parade of fools strutting their irrelevant, self-important brand of radical politics in the face of mainstream society."
well thanks for once again proving to us how extremist you and your supporters are mikey.
the majority of americans support the dems' views on the policy issues before the country today.
how far on the far right do you have to be to consider the views of the majority of americans as 'radical'?
pretty far...
June 20, 2008
12:58 p.m.
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Eli writes:
Jay,
Your reading comprehension is absolutely horrible. Rosen was referring specifically to Recreate '68 in the sentence you quoted. Unless you are contending that the Democratic party and Recreate '68 are one and the same, which would be a statement that Recreate '68 would beg to differ with...
June 20, 2008
1:04 p.m.
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jay writes:
eli is recreat68 the only folks parading?
not so much. there will be all kinds of folks that respect democratic policy stances in those parades.
maybe if mike and his supporters turned down the far right rhetoric they wouldn't need apologistic talking points to try to rationalize its use.
the point stands.
June 20, 2008
1:11 p.m.
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jay writes:
but hey, eli, you're learning not to use willful ignorance as the last resort in an attempt to refuse to acknowledgement of politically inconvenient facts.
you didn't even try to deny that the majority of americans side with the dems in terms of policy stances.
good work.
June 20, 2008
1:11 p.m.
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Eli writes:
"eli is recreat68 the only folks parading?"
No, but the fact remains that the sentence you quoted was referring specifically to Recreate '68.
He even made it a point to make a distinction between Recreate '68 and groups like Code Pink, the Green Party, the American Friends Service Committee, the Rocky Mountain Peace and Justice Center.
So no, the point doesn't "stand", no matter how much reaching you do. It was either a knee jerk reaction or extremely poor reading comprehension. I'm going to go with reading comprehension.
June 20, 2008
1:20 p.m.
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jay writes:
no, he specifically states THE PARADE....not recreate68's parade....THE PARADE...and thus addresses all parade goers.
nice try.
June 20, 2008
1:29 p.m.
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olsonmt writes:
Eli, Jay can't read. Furthermore, the recreate '68 group and others like them are parading in PROTEST to the Democratic convention and thus the Democratic party and policies. This is the fringe left and Rosen's accurately identifying them as such.
June 20, 2008
1:31 p.m.
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JimmyB writes:
Jay:
"the majority of americans support the dems' views on the policy issues before the country today."
On what information do YOU have, that you would make a claim such as this?
While there are numerous "polls" which indicate Bush's approval rating by those Americans polled is in the toilet, I don't recall any of those polls saying those same Americans prefer, or support the Democrat's views.
Personally, I believe Bush is an idiot, but that doesn't mean I support ALL of the Democrat's views (some good, some….not so much), as you claim most Americans do.
But, then, I can only speak for myself.
June 20, 2008
1:34 p.m.
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sheepherder writes:
The difference is, R68 not a peaceful group, they are going to be there to cause mayhem and little more. Let peaceful protesters do their thing, and protect their right to do it. R68 should be banned from all activities given their stated purpose. They are even going to try to block delagates from getting to the Pepsi Center to cast their votes! Glenn and his ilk are morons.
June 20, 2008
1:47 p.m.
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jay writes:
jimmyb scientific polling supports the fact that the majority of americans prefer dems' stances on the issues before the country.
there is no fuzzy math involved...just data.
eli, can you help jimmy with this one? you and i established this a while back and i don't really want to dig up the info again.
June 20, 2008
1:52 p.m.
Suggest removal
jay writes:
here you go, jimmyb, this thread contains information that should help out.
http://blogs.rockymountainnews.com/ro...
June 20, 2008
1:53 p.m.
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Eli writes:
"no, he specifically states THE PARADE....not recreate68's parade....THE PARADE...and thus addresses all parade goers."
LOL! Wow! That is really, REALLY stretching, at best. Have fun with that, jay. Have yourself a ball.
June 20, 2008
1:57 p.m.
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jay writes:
like i said, if rosen and his ilk would just do away with the far right wing rhetoric, emotional apologistic rationalizations wouldn't be needed, eli.
rush would be proud of your loyalty though.
June 20, 2008
2:06 p.m.
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Eli writes:
Jay, you are an idiot. If I were to claim that Clinton were the best president in the history of the nation, you would call it right wing rhetoric and throw in something about Rush Limbaugh just because I am a political conservative.
Rosen criticizes a group that is VERY critical of Democrats, and you freak. I'm pretty sure if Rosen said the sky was blue, you'd call it a right wing talking point. When your failure to actually READ what was written above was pointed out, you desperately try to rationalize it. When all else fails, you resort to your favorite catch phrases. It's quite sad, really.
At this point you're just typing for the sake of seeing your own words on the screen. I'm sorry you don't like having your inability to comprehend simple English pointed out. Really, I am. But it's no reason to pout.
Work on your ability to comprehend simple English for a while, come on back and we can have a lovely debate about current events. Until your literacy is improved, however, there is no point in conversing with you further. Have a fantastic weekend.
June 20, 2008
2:12 p.m.
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jay writes:
lol...i'll continue to point out how closely your rhetoric mirrors rush limbaugh, eli.
pouting isn't going to help.
June 20, 2008
2:30 p.m.
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JimmyB writes:
Jay:
So, if it should happen (and I'm not saying it will, or won't) that McCain wins the election this November, would that make all those "polls" (scientific, or otherwise), which claim "the majority of americans prefer dems' stances", were a complete waste of time?
In reality, polls are inherently problematic, as they deal with the whims of those polled. And, whims change with the popularity of "views". What's popular today, may not be, come November.
As I pointed out in another blog, while discussing with those people who would GUARANTEE a win this November for Obama, or McCain; the exit polls taken in the 1948 Presidential race had Thomas Dewey beating Harry Trueman handily.
The only problem, THOSE polls were not quite correct.
We've never had a President Dewey.
The ONLY grarantee is: people WILL change their minds, before AND after polls are taken.
June 20, 2008
2:49 p.m.
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jay writes:
"So, if it should happen (and I'm not saying it will, or won't) that McCain wins the election this November, would that make all those "polls" (scientific, or otherwise), which claim "the majority of americans prefer dems' stances", were a complete waste of time?"
not at all...why would you think that all americans vote based upon policy stances?
you can rail against the validity of scientific polling, but the data doesn't lie.
policy policy policy.
June 20, 2008
3:10 p.m.
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JimmyB writes:
Jay:
I'm not "railing" against the "the validity of scientific polling". I'm only stating that to believe in such things ABSULUTELY, is absurd.
All I'm saying is, if (as you posts indicate) you believe absolutely in "scientific polling", you're leaving yourself open for the possibility of some major disappointment; just as Dewey's followers were disappointed by his defeat in 1948, after the pollsters predicted HIS win.
But, if you want to believe that "scientific polls" are NEVER wrong, you go right ahead and believe.
Who am I to tell you, you're wrong?
June 20, 2008
4:13 p.m.
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jonnyrotten writes:
The piece was about the Re-Create 68 extremists and had nothing to do with Bush or Gore. When you make ignorant comments about "popular vote" and "President Gore", you simply paint yourself as the classic angry liberal and nothing else that you say could possibly be taken seriously?
June 20, 2008
5:02 p.m.
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jay writes:
"I'm only stating that to believe in such things ABSULUTELY, is absurd."
i'm not sure what yo'ure talking about with this remark...scientific polling is valid and highly accurate.
if you want to choose not to believe that then you are simply opening yourself up to the realization from others than you're engaging in willful ignorance.
June 20, 2008
7:20 p.m.
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JimmyB writes:
Jay:
" i'm not sure what yo'ure talking about with this remark...scientific polling is valid and highly accurate"
So, you believe "scientific polling" is NEVER wrong? LOL……..How naive. And, aren't you "simply opening yourself up to" major disappointment, should your "scientific polls" be incorrect?
And, isn't it interesting that you would then accuse me of "engaging in willful ignorance", when you are actually the one who chooses to remain ignorant by ignoring facts.
Ah, so typical, when one can't find a valid argument to fall back on.
June 20, 2008
8:27 p.m.
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GetReal writes:
HTT has stated he believes there are numorous "space aliens" living among us.
Nothing he says should ever be taken seriously and it is a waste of time even responding to his nonsense.
jay-
Your argument that a majority of Americans support Dem policies doesn't persuade me because I doubt a majority of Americans could even name the candidates various policy stances.
The best case against Democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter.
Also, McCain is a RINO and the only major policy difference between him and Obama is on Iraq, and the timing of troop withdrawal.
Now, thanks to the surge, there is real evidence of progress being made and public support is growing.
Even with the liberal MSM burying the stories of Iraqi stabilization and success, thanks to the Internet the truth is getting out.
It has never been more true than the present-
Good news out of Iraq = Bad news for Dems this fall.
The latest Rasmussen Poll shows Obama 45% , McCain 41%, and 14% UNDECIDED.
A lot can happen in four months, especially when you also factor in the Gaffe Man's upcoming non-teleprompter challenges.
Six months ago you guys had an absolute lock on the Presidency, What happened?
June 20, 2008
8:51 p.m.
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mytwosense writes:
Hey Rosen, if they're so irrelevant and unimportant, why did you just write an entire seething column about 'em?