Check out the latest CSAP scores
By Nancy Mitchell, Rocky Mountain News (Contact)
Published July 29, 2008 at 11 a.m.
Updated July 30, 2008 at 12:22 p.m.
Photo by Preston Gannaway / The Rocky
Fifth-graders at Trailblazer Elementary School, from left, Elizabeth Estrada, Grace Behnke, Tyler Vogel and Jack Wise, play while passing around tests. The school saw gains in CSAP scores.
More than two-thirds of pupils statewide are reading at grade level while slightly more than half are there in writing and math, according to results released Tuesday of Colorado's latest annual student exams.
Less than half of the students tested this past spring were proficient in science.
"In short, the results are mixed," state Education Commissioner Dwight Jones said in announcing the 2008 scores of the Colorado Student Assessment Program. "We have not gotten the gains we would like."
Results for at least the past five years of the 12-year-old testing program have been fairly flat. This year's results are no different - less than a single percentage point separates 2008 statewide scores in reading, writing and math from 2007 results.
State leaders revised science standards last year so 2007 and 2008 science exam results are not comparable.
Gov. Bill Ritter, similarly describing results as "mixed," singled out some areas of progress. He pointed to growth in the middle-school grades, such as an increase in seventh-grade reading proficiency rates from 53 percent in 2003 to 58 percent in 2008.
"That's something that gives us reason to hope," Ritter said.
Lt. Gov. Barbara O'Brien also pointed to gains made this year by the Denver and Aurora school districts, which serve high numbers of poor and minority students.
"We know from districts like Denver and Aurora," she said, "that they can beat every odd against them."
A new growth model
But both Jones and Ritter chose to focus less on this year's results and more on a new way of using them.
Colorado's new "Growth Model" will allow educators to track students based on how much growth they make from one annual exam to the next.
Students achieving a reading score in the proficient range one year, for example, will be tracked to see whether they keep up - or not - with other students who achieved a similar score.
The new approach shifts the focus to progress by individual students in their schools, Jones said, rather than simply calculating what percent of youngsters are proficient at each grade level.
"By this time next year, I expect this event to focus primarily on growth data," he said, "and how schools are doing in helping all students reach high standards."
Parents and teachers are expected to see the new growth reports on individual students this fall. Growth data also will be factored in the state's rating of schools in December and, eventually, into the academic goals set out in the federal No Child Left Behind Act.
Denver Public Schools recently unveiled its School Performance Framework, which relies on similar growth data to judge how its schools are performing.
"We're going to be most interested in what the results tell us in the growth of kids," DPS Superintendent Michael Bennet said of the new approach. "We'll be able to look at places showing sustained growth over time and ask, 'Why there and not everywhere else?' "
Changing CSAP
Ritter, after Tuesday's CSAP press conference, said he expects growth will remain part of the state's evolving $22 million testing system.
His education initiative, the Colorado Achievement Plan for Kids, or CSAP4K, mandates revising the state's academic standards and reviewing the tests used to measure whether students are meeting them.
"I really do think it is important to utilize a growth model," he said. "That gives us the ability to say, this is working . . . and this is not."
Ritter said his plan does not eliminate state testing, as some educators have hoped. But it does ask whether CSAPs are the appropriate tests for the new standards.
Colorado spends about $18 million a year on the CSAP exams in grades three through 10 and on alternate versions for students with special needs, known as CSAP-A.
It spends another $4 million on the college prep ACT test, required for all high school juniors, and on the Colorado English Language Assessment program for English language learners.
Ritter's plan, approved by state lawmakers in this year's General Assembly, gives state education leaders three years to adopt new academic standards and to review alternatives to the CSAP. By 2012, those tests are to be implemented in schools.
But Jones said Tuesday that he hopes to complete adoption of the new standards by 2009 and wrap up the new testing program not long after that.
"It's nice to have the flexibility," he said of the timeline, adding, "We still are supportive of CSAP but we don't know if it will be the form of assessment we choose to use."
mitchelln@RockyMountainNews.com or 303-954-5245
State highlights
* Scores were generally stagnant again. Overall, results were up in 11 of the tests, down in seven tests and unchanged in six tests. Reading and math were generally up, most grades saw drops in writing scores. Less than half of the ninth and 10th- graders in the state were proficient in writing and math.
* Based on composite scores, 67.8 percent of the state's students are proficient or better in reading - up from 67.2% last year. In writing, 53.4% of students are proficient or better, down from 53.9% last year. In math, 53.2% are proficient or better in math, virtually unchanged from 53.1% last year. In science, 45.8% of students are proficient or better.
* Denver and Aurora public schools were bright spots. In Denver, students raised reading, writing and math scores across the board by several percentage points. Aurora also saw increases in test scores in most grades.
* The Mapleton district fared the worst in the area with overall declines of several percentage points in all three subjects.
* The gender gap remained large. Females scored better than males in every grade in reading and writing. The differences between males and females were 10 percentage points or more in four reading tests and in all eight writing tests. While males generally scored higher than females in math, the gaps were small.
* Minority students posted larger gains than their white counterparts, but remained far behind in overall scoring. Black students gained in 14 of the 24 tests and Hispanic students gained in 13. That compares to white students gaining in only nine of the 24 tests. Still, Hispanic and black test scores remained behind white students.
* There was little difference in gains made by low-income students. Students eligible for free- and reduced-priced lunches gained in 12 of the 24 tests. All other students gained in 11 tests.
* Overall, 2,275 schools/grades gained in reading tests, including 829 with more than 50% of students eligible for free and reduced-priced lunches vs. 2,061 that lost ground, including 686 low income. In math and writing, more schools/classes lost ground than gained. In writing, 2,088 gained, including 749 low-income, and 2,292 lost ground, including 760 low-income. In math, 2,160 advanced (719 low-income) and 2,196 lost ground (774 low-income).
Exit CSAP?
A dozen years after the Colorado Student Assessment Program began to measure the state's schools, the tests are being overhauled. Gov. Bill Ritter's Colorado Achievement Program for Kids mandates the revising of state academic standards and the tests used to measure whether students are meeting them. Here's the timeline:
* September 2008: Colorado Department of Education begins review of state standards in reading, writing, science, music and math. Continues with review of arts, geography and other subject standards through June 2009.
* December 2009: State Board of Education considers recommended revisions to state academic standards.
* December 2010: State Board considers new testing system for the new standards and makes recommendation to state lawmakers for funding.
* December 2012: Colorado schools implement new standards and new testing system.
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July 29, 2008
11:10 a.m.
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hikingartist writes:
Learning is a process not a destination. CSAP is a waste of money.
July 29, 2008
11:17 a.m.
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TheDenverB writes:
freethought, that sentence makes perfect sense to me.
maybe it's time you go back to third grade...
and if you want raw data, pj, it's on the CDE website.
some of you need to just go start your own newspaper, because it's clear you never agree with or like anything in print here.
July 29, 2008
11:22 a.m.
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LingLingfor_prez writes:
Although any progress is good, there is much more work to do.
July 29, 2008
11:27 a.m.
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blondiearvada writes:
Yeah, maybe you guys should start a newspaper. That way people and businesses can actually afford to advertise in something more than the Westword. Back on track, CSAP is a joke.
July 29, 2008
11:41 a.m.
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TheDenverB writes:
lol.
why would you advertise in a non-free newspaper anymore anyway?
July 29, 2008
11:41 a.m.
Suggest removal
momof5 writes:
CSAP is a joke. Schools spend too much time teaching the kids what they need to know just to pass the test. Too much emphasis is on looking good for the CSAP and not enough on learning what these kids actually need to succeed in life.
July 29, 2008
11:53 a.m.
Suggest removal
TheDenverB writes:
okay, well freethought i'm not a pro writer writing the story... in fact, i'm typing fast in a more relaxed manner -- as is normal on blogs, message boards, etc.
really bud, you can pick apart my grammar and syntax all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that you are a whiner on this site day in and day out over petty stuff.
but back to my original point: what was wrong with the initial sentence in the story? (nothing)
--
"You would like for us to go away because in your little world you try to hide news that puts liberals and their causes in a bad light."
what is being hidden? what woul show "liberals" in a bad light? you mean the "liberal" senators and reps in this state pusining to END csap testing?
again, what conspiracy do you have cooked up under your tin foil hat?
and the edwards thing? really? that's hardly news, it's tabloid journalism that -- if it were on a senator on your side of the isle -- you'd likely be complaining about it not being news.
but, again, since it's NOT your side of things -- you'd love to see it dragged out as REAL news.
July 29, 2008
11:58 a.m.
Suggest removal
TheDenverB writes:
and pj, i'd like for you to go away because you bring nothing to the table but complaining and snide comments.
it would be one thing if you constantly provided solid, good arguments on your points... but you don't.
you 'drive by' post on here with little to say other than that the writers/editors of the paper have their heads up their as$es.
(freethought, feel free to play English teacher with taht post as well. there's plenty of uncapitalized words, misspellings, run ons and whatnot to keep you busy)
July 29, 2008
noon
Suggest removal
TheDenverB writes:
(and while you are at it, maybe you can find *YET* another way to insert that you are an atheist and bash folks who find some comfort in spiritual beliefs)
July 29, 2008
12:58 p.m.
Suggest removal
catlady writes:
Momof5,
The CSAPs are not a joke. For some of us, it is the only way for us to know the performance standards of our local schools. The school boards, the administrators and the teachers tell us, "Everything is fine. The children can read, write, do math. No worries."
CSAPs are an independent check on what we are being "told." You can review the results for yourself and see if the neighborhood school is producing adequately prepared students. It's black and white; not just someone's personal impression.
Additionally, I am very excited about the longitudinal studies that are about to be done in conjunction with the CSAPs. Students grades will be matched to their CSAP scores to get a better picture of actual school and student achievement. Imagine being able to determine of the "C" students at the local school are doing "C" level work. This can help fight grade inflation and turn back the 'feel good' movement that has overtaken the learning process in too many of this state's public schools.
As anyone of even the most basic intelligence will tell you, the best decisions are evidence based. Data from the CSAPs are the foundations for evidence-based decision making in education. Our schools now have the opportunity to provide curriculum in formats that work...not just what feels nice and fuzzy or is the latest untested buzz at the time.
July 29, 2008
1:38 p.m.
Suggest removal
TheDenverB writes:
cat lady, they are a joke and there are much better tests we could use that actually mean something to the students -- like ACT for high schoolers.
something that is actually tied to their advancement so they take it seriously....
CSAP has no place in high schools, or any school imo.
July 29, 2008
1:45 p.m.
Suggest removal
vudumom writes:
If teachers don't teach what is on the CSAP's how are the students going to do well on the CSAP's.?
Since when do any teachers give tests on subject matter that is not taught or studied? Hmmmm.
Does anyone have an alternative to CSAP's that will give us the wealth of information that CSAP"s provide?
July 29, 2008
1:49 p.m.
Suggest removal
thats_just_me writes:
Momof5 - you wrote "Schools spend too much time teaching the kids what they need to know just to pass the test".
I personally want my kids to be taught the things that ARE on the test; things like reading, writing, math and science. Further, I want to know if they have learned it. What is it that you would have your five learn instead?
July 29, 2008
2:35 p.m.
Suggest removal
TheDenverB writes:
"Does anyone have an alternative to CSAP's that will give us the wealth of information that CSAP"s provide?"
yes. several state sens and reps do and it will likely change how we look at standardized testing. ACT, for example, can provide just as much data as CSAP for high schoolers, AND the test actually means something to the kids taking it...
unlike now, where all of the kids know that doing well on CSAP means nothing for them.
July 29, 2008
2:42 p.m.
Suggest removal
TheDenverB writes:
"Democrap's like lower scores. If the masses can read and write... they might see thru the BS smoke screen and disturb the Marxist take over."
yeah, taht's why democratic leaders at the house and senate are working to improve scores and do away with CSAP...
real good logic you have there, clown.
July 29, 2008
2:58 p.m.
Suggest removal
BO writes:
BeefEater-
The 1950s called- they want their insult back.
Man- are you paranoid or what?
July 29, 2008
3:24 p.m.
Suggest removal
TheDenverB writes:
"rather be a clown then a pinko commie!"
either way, you are off base in your comment and flat our wrong.
now, go root for your political party like it's a football team some more. it's doing great things for our country.
"our ready, DenverB. Next step for you is the strap the bomb to your chest and do your duty!!"
no, remember that's what our CURRENT president is doing to our young men and women...
"Is that why congressional approval is at 9%?
Great argument, simpleton..."
lol. speaking of great arguments... what does the US congress have to do with my proving you wrong by pointing out that state reps and senators are working to improve STATE standardized test scores and do away with CSAP altogether? what does the congressional approval rating have to do with that?
nothing.
try and stay on topic, clown.
::puts on che t-shirt::
July 29, 2008
3:29 p.m.
Suggest removal
TheDenverB writes:
and talk about a simpleton...
like most conservates on here you resort to name calling, pet names for presidential candidates and Faux news talking points from the get go...
dumocrats, marxism... you're a regular (insert name of your favorite redneck comedy tour comedian)
not much substance to your argument, clown.
July 29, 2008
3:38 p.m.
Suggest removal
TheDenverB writes:
"""our ready, DenverB. Next step for you is the strap the bomb to your chest and do your duty!!"
no, remember that's what our CURRENT president is doing to our young men and women..."
You think you got the stones to say that to a Vet in person?"
you should know by now that yes, i would have the stones to tell a soldier that i feel our president has sent them to war with a bomb strapped to their chest for no good reason in my opinion.
i'd say it to you, i've said it (in other words) to my best friend who just got back from 6 years in Korea, and i am more than happy to tell it to my uncles who fought in vietnam and my cousin who is in Afghanistan.
our president sent them off to die for poor reasons. thats how i feel and i sure don't have a problem IN AMERICA letting people know that.
i respect the shit out of soldiers, but that doesn't mean i have to be nice and tread lightly and watch my mouth around them.
though, taht said, i get that BeefLicker was trying to be funny and associate Obama with extremists muslims -- just like every other joke of a conservative who resorts to name calling and Faux News talking points as opposed to real issues to put down the candidate.
but hey, i don't see our president as being much better -- both groups send others to die for their unjust causes.
July 29, 2008
4:06 p.m.
Suggest removal
TheDenverB writes:
"You will say that American men and Women are mindless zealots willing to kill innocents for a religious reason?"
no, grunt. You read too much into that and are putting words in my mouth.
again, i'll say our president sent them off to die (do you have a choice to NOT follow orders in the military now?) for unjust reasons -- that he, in effect, strapped a bomb to their chests and sent them off to do his bidding.
religion, oil, money... it doesn't matter. I don't feel our boys and gals should be sent over their to kill and be killed for the reasons our leader says they should.
"Ever find yourself up around Longmont.. Feel free to let me know."
is that really a veiled threat over my right to express my opinion in a way that doesn't harm or interfere with anyone else? I thought you were a bigger and better man then that, Grunt.
July 29, 2008
4:11 p.m.
Suggest removal
TheDenverB writes:
'strap that machine gun to your chest and do your duty, soldier! No questions asked, our side is right!'
how is that different from any other leaders sending others to die for their cause? because it's our side of things it makes it right to go to war on false pretenses?
trust me grunt, i'm on your side and would rather not see soldiers dying for things the majority of this country doesn't believe in just because our leaders tell them to.
if you really can't see that in my posts, however, then i think you and i truly are done. Honestly, i had garnered some respect for you over the past few weeks as you seem like somewhat of a logical man who, like me, doesn't really agree with one party or another and finds them both to be full of shyte most of the time...
July 29, 2008
4:11 p.m.
Suggest removal
mytwosense writes:
Is anyone familiar with Montessori and Waldorf education principles? I'd like to see some of those incorporated into our public schools. I agree we need some sort of benchmark testing, but rote memorization isn't exactly "learning." Maybe on a temporary basis, but not much more than that. I prefer learning by doing. More hands on stuff, rather than relying almost solely on dry textbooks and boring lectures.
July 29, 2008
4:53 p.m.
Suggest removal
HeIsInControl writes:
Does anyone else feel like puking?
July 29, 2008
5:05 p.m.
Suggest removal
HopiMedicineMan writes:
We're 24th in the world in math scores! We're losing the world economic game. It's the failure of the educators and the bleeding hearts above. Maybe we should just present our kids their very own hamburger flipper when they "graduate," instead of a diploma.
With no net revenues, who is going to pay the Medicare and Social Security of 77-million Baby Boomers, not to mention the 36-million already retired? Together, that's a third of the population. It won't be the wealthy, they're leveraged to their ears, as everyone else. We face unimaginable challenges we're trying to solve by teaching origami.
July 29, 2008
5:13 p.m.
Suggest removal
TheDenverB writes:
all is good grunt. as i said, i think you and i are a lot more similar than would first appear.
i'd be glad to meet you for a drink in longmont sometime, or you can come down to five points and have one with me.
July 29, 2008
7:25 p.m.
Suggest removal
poppy writes:
TheDenverB has way too much time on his or her hands. either he is unemployed or has summer off because he or she is a teacher.
July 29, 2008
7:51 p.m.
Suggest removal
trinidad writes:
CSAP test are a waste of money and time. The only ones that benefit from these test are the teachers and the schools. Better scores and improvements made by the students equals job security for the teachers and a little heat off the schools back from the previous years score.
July 29, 2008
8:28 p.m.
Suggest removal
BO writes:
HopiMed-
"We're 24th in the world in math scores! We're losing the world economic game. It's the failure of the educators and the bleeding hearts above."
Do the students, parents, and other negative influences from society have any ownership in this as well?
July 29, 2008
8:33 p.m.
Suggest removal
Rayne writes:
To HopiMedicineMan and others;
Please do not blame all educators. Yes, I am a teacher. I know how hard I worked last year with my students. When are parents going to take some responsibility for their child's education? I have children as well and I don't expect their teacher to do everything for them and turn them into proficient students. I know that I have to work with them at home, support what they are learning in the classroom.
Those students in my class who didn't turn in homework also had no parental support at home. I offered to help them before school, after school, and during my lunch time (they never showed). There also comes a time when students have to accept responsibility for their own lives and education.
The one complaint that I have is that the educational system needs to stop worrying about social issues when deciding whether to pass a student on to the next grade or not. Obviously, if he/she failed, they did not comprehend the material. Passing them on to the next grade because they will be with their peers is not going to help them, they will just fall further behind.
There needs to be a better way of assessing our children. One test per year is not practical. Rather, smaller quarterly assessments should be considered. I truly believe that these CSAP exams stress the kids out. You can see it on their faces.
July 29, 2008
8:41 p.m.
Suggest removal
BO writes:
BeefEater
"BodyOder... well, your mom called and she needs me to pay her for the triple tongue ripple last night. The 80's work for you?
I see how it goes.. it's OK to talk about how evil Bush is. But you put the boot on the other foot (pun intended) and some folks get thier panties in a bunch."
Thank you for making my point, BodyOder!"
Way to go- I haven't heard the body odor remark in regards to my initials since I was in 3rd grade, nor have I heard an insult about my mom since 5th, which explains all sorts of things about your maturity level. BTW- Nowhere on my post did I mention how evil Bush is. I don't think he's evil, just incompotent (which FYI evil and incompotent are mutually exclusive things). Me thinking you're paranoid has nothing to do with Bush. You're quite the NTAC.
July 29, 2008
8:41 p.m.
Suggest removal
Mike846 writes:
Here's the deal; CSAP came about originally because of the frustration with the continuing lack of performance in public schools. Intead of teaching basic skills, which would allow students to be measured by any test, like the Iowa Basics, to see how they are doing, the schools have increasingly gotten involved in social engineering, specialized "needs" based curricula, and a zillion other "feel good" junk time-wasters designed to program children to be good little liberals. No winners and losers, everyone "self-actualized" and "empowered", equality of outcome, no running or playing tag, certainly no fighting, and above all no questioning of the politically correct way of life, be it in language, dress or even THOUGHT. You can't even DRAW a gun in pencil on your note pad, or carry a plastic knife in your lunch bucket to cut your sandwich. Zero tolerance, thats the ticket. No religious symbols of ANY kind; no Valentine's Day parties, no costumes on Halloween, no Christmas music or themes (but, of course, its okay to have a "Be a Muslim for a Day" program; the ACLU doesn't seem to mind THAT particular religion in public schools) and certainly no Easter vacation; its the Spring vacation. And its not all the teachers and administrators fault, either. Lawyers will sue a school district at the drop of a hat at some perceived "slight" or "deprivation of students rights". Teachers can't throw disruptive students out of class; they might be sued for discriminating against them and denying them the right to an education. Administrators can't discipline children in any way, be it physical or with suspension in many cases for the same reason. Its broke folks, and all you have to do is look at the flight to charter and private schools by EVERY SINGLE ethnic group to know that the answers are there. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results. So lets keep letting the kids run the schools, the NEA run the teachers and politicians run the administrators. How's that been working out the last 50 years? Mike
July 29, 2008
10:43 p.m.
Suggest removal
Creative_N_Denver writes:
Schools need to get back to teaching the basics. Anything above the basics should be taught after High School. Parents use TV and video games as babysitters so they do not have to deal with teaching their children.
Most children could have a great head start if they were taught their ABC's, basic adding and subtraction before sending them to Kindergarden. Many factors can effect the out come of the CSAP testing. But you have to have a way to see what a child is retaining or not. Most of the school hours are wasted on discipline-again this starts at home. I seen it first hand as a volunteer Teachers helper. Many children are out of control, mouthy, rude and/or have horrible attitudes. How can a student retain any information with an environment like that?
July 29, 2008
10:47 p.m.
Suggest removal
tylerfrost writes:
CSAP is total garbage. Here in Aurora the Superintendant of Schools, John Barry, has children staying in from recess just to train to score high on this test (school funding and his ego are at stake). CSAP does not demonstrate that children have actually learned anything valuable, or that a school provides a high standard of education. All they do is cram them for these tests every year at the expense of any real learning. I for one have wrote John Barry twice about his idea that recess should be used to cram for CSAP. Kids, with their short attention spans need a break and most importantly they need to work on their skills of social interaction, which is what recess is all about. Instead of getting some exercise and having a little fun, they are being taught to hate school and make people like Barry look good. I would encourage all parents to voice their disgust with CSAP and if your child attends an Aurora Public School send John Barry and email and tell him enough is enough. 303-344-8060, ext. 28004 or supt@aps.k12.co.us. He will not respond but if he hears enough complaints maybe something will get through him fat, dense head. Get rid of CSAP so our kids can get a real education!
July 30, 2008
3:17 a.m.
Suggest removal
longpasttime writes:
"Here's the deal; CSAP came about originally because of the frustration with the continuing lack of performance in public schools. Intead of teaching basic skills, which would allow students to be measured by any test, like the Iowa Basics, to see how they are doing, the schools have increasingly gotten involved in social engineering, specialized "needs" based curricula, and a zillion other "feel good" junk time-wasters designed to program children to be good little liberals. No winners and losers, everyone "self-actualized" and "empowered", equality of outcome, no running or playing tag, certainly no fighting, and above all no questioning of the politically correct way of life, be it in language, dress or even THOUGHT. You can't even DRAW a gun in pencil on your note pad, or carry a plastic knife in your lunch bucket to cut your sandwich. Zero tolerance, thats the ticket. No religious symbols of ANY kind; no Valentine's Day parties, no costumes on Halloween, no Christmas music or themes (but, of course, its okay to have a "Be a Muslim for a Day" program; the ACLU doesn't seem to mind THAT particular religion in public schools) and certainly no Easter vacation; its the Spring vacation. And its not all the teachers and administrators fault, either. Lawyers will sue a school district at the drop of a hat at some perceived "slight" or "deprivation of students rights". Teachers can't throw disruptive students out of class; they might be sued for discriminating against them and denying them the right to an education. Administrators can't discipline children in any way, be it physical or with suspension in many cases for the same reason. Its broke folks, and all you have to do is look at the flight to charter and private schools by EVERY SINGLE ethnic group to know that the answers are there. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results. So lets keep letting the kids run the schools, the NEA run the teachers and politicians run the administrators. How's that been working out the last 50 years? Mike"
Could not have said it any better!
July 30, 2008
5:10 a.m.
Suggest removal
farsidefan writes:
CSAP is truly a poltical albatross. Schools or school personnel are not in it for the money or the ego. It was imposed by the legislature. Standards based education began in the 80's. The idea was to set state standards on what to teach in certain areas.
This was as much for consistency across districts statewide as it was to establish some basis for measurement.
The standards were established by statewide commitees of educators in that subject area for that grade level.
The legislature hijacked the idea by creating CSAP.
I have no problem with some sort of testing to see if kids are learning. My sons took the Iowa Basic Skills test years ago. I knew how they were doing. If something came in low, we worked on it with the teacher.
The problem I have with CSAP is the punitive atmosphere that it was designed around.
I am not sure on the exact figures but it goes something like this:
If a school finishes in the bottom 5% for 3 years in a row, then it can or will be changed into a charter school ( as if that is a magic bullet). Let's say that happens to 5 schools. Then the next three year go around the bottom 5 schools get changed, etc.
Some feel this was a way to force schools to become charters.
Sorry for the litany, my bottom line:
Parents need to keep track of how and what their kids are doing in school. An achievement test of some sort is needed to assess progress on an individual basis. The results should be used by the teacher and parent to set a course for improvement.
I think the problem with CSAP is more the atmoshpere than the test itself.
PS. I know high school kids who take the mandatory ACT test now. The results cannot be used to judge a schools' performance. Why ? The kids who have no interst in college complete the damn thing in 15 minutes. They color in any circle they want and walk out laughing to themselves. It doesn't make a hill of beans difference to them how they do, because they aren't going to college.
July 30, 2008
7:55 a.m.
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chobbes writes:
Raye is correct. The key to quality education is the parents. Look at schools of choice and charter schools that are successful. The parents there are invested in their childrens future. They cared enough to get them in a school that has the same values as they do. D'Evelyn success is because the students are required to work hard and the parents support it! They're not any smarter then other kids.
Parents, be involved in your childrens future, you had them now put them first. Teach them values and respect for others. Discipline them and show them love. When they're little, read to them every night. Show them that you care, and they will then care.
July 30, 2008
9:27 a.m.
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momof5 writes:
"Momof5 - you wrote "Schools spend too much time teaching the kids what they need to know just to pass the test".
I personally want my kids to be taught the things that ARE on the test; things like reading, writing, math and science. Further, I want to know if they have learned it. What is it that you would have your five learn instead?"
I would like my kids to learn the same things, reading, writing, math and science, but I want them to learn it for the sake of learning it, not to be able to pass some ridiculous test that the teachers and school administrators put so much emphasis on that it makes little kids sick to think of taking it. That's all my kids heard about in elementary school - taking the CSAP. Make sure you get a good night's rest. Notes home to make sure your kid was there the day of the test so the school gets credit for the kid. And on and on and on.
I'd like my kids to learn math the way we learned math - a way that actually worked. Have you tried helping a 4th grader with math lately? I have. They aren't taught to find the "real" answer to 4 x 4. They are taught to estimate or guess. My son had a problem that was 2 x 4. One of the follow up questions was "How did you arrive at the answer". His response was he knew 2 x 4 = 8. That was not the right answer. I went and spoke with her. She said they did not want kids to simply memorize the answers to multiplication tables anymore. Excuse me? What the? So, when he's an adult and he's measuring a room for carpet or whatever, he's just supposed to guess at the answer, not actually come up with the real answer?
Same as with writing. A kid can't simply sit down and write an essay. They have to do a first draft, then change it, then change it again and finally "publish" it. And make sure you show all the steps and all the drafts. Come on, it's a fourth grade book report, not a Pulitizer prize winning novel.
No, I want my kids to learn the basics. I want them to spend time learning the basics of math (adding, subtracting, multiplying and dividing) before they move onto anything else. And really learning the answers, not guesswork.
I want them to be able to read fluently which is why I have a rule that they read for one half hour every night. I don't care what they read, as long as they are reading. But what I don't want is someone putting pressure on them to do well on some test because the school gets a better rating or the teacher gets a better rating or whatever. I don't think CSAP is an accurate reflection of what a kid is capable of doing.
I have twin boys who are 17. They are seniors in high school this year. They laugh about the kids who just go through the CSAP checking off whatever on the score sheet. Some don't even answer the questions at all. How is that an accurate reflection of what your student is capable of?
July 30, 2008
10:19 a.m.
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TheDenverB writes:
totally off poppy.
im a 20-something dot-com millionaire on a yacht in the south pacific right now.
ever heard of youtube? i didn't invent that.
July 30, 2008
1:23 p.m.
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MDACO writes:
It is perfectly understandable that educators would want to eliminate the only mechanism available to assess their product, if the mechanism is demonstrating that the educators are not improving their product. While the mechanism (CSAP) may not be perfect, it is all the taxpayers have to evaluate what they are getting for their tax dollars. Unfortunately, the educators are continuing to blame the mechanism instead of the rightful culprit...the current means and methods used to educate our children. This problem will never be overcome until the teachers union decides it is more important to educate children than defend their membership's lackluster performance. When is someone in a leadership position going to standup for the kids! Gov Ritter is making an attempt, but he has yet to state the plain, ugly truth as many understand it...our public education system which is controlled by the teacher's union is a dismal failure and is not improving student learning at all, as the CSAPs prove. You know CSAP works when you see parents work so hard to get their kids in the Douglas or Boulder County schools.
July 30, 2008
1:51 p.m.
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BO writes:
MDACO
"It is perfectly understandable that educators would want to eliminate the only mechanism available to assess their product, if the mechanism is demonstrating that the educators are not improving their product."
Unfortunately, teachers are expected to turn out an above average product (an educated child) out of sub-standard rawmaterials ( a child lacking the natural ability, desire, or support and home accountability).
Can a high quality auto be produced from sub-standard raw materials (iron, steel, etc.)?
Here's a news flash- most teachers I know give tests. Its amazing how many people on here feel free to comment on the CSAP and yet to ever have actually seen one.
There are two problems with it (I taught in CO from 2002-05; I have seen CSAP tests); 1) There's no teeth behind it from the student end, i.e. doesn't count for grade advancement, graduation, grades, etc. There is no incentive for kids to do well. By the time students reach 7th or 8th grade (or maybe sooner), many view the CSAP as a waste of time. Its something they have to get through-no more, no less. I had many a student admit that they just filled in circles so they could just get done. How many of you on here that claim what a great tool CSAP is would have honestly tried your hardest on a test which had no bearing on your future? 2) The methodology. Most of the state, last I knew (and I haven't viewed the results), doesn't do very well on the math section. As a teacher, if the majority of my kids do poorly on a test, I look at what I may have done to produce that result. Apparently, CDE can't do the same. Apparently, all of the math teachers in CO must stink, right?
July 30, 2008
1:57 p.m.
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BO writes:
BTW- Teachers unions don't have as much power as you think. They have no role in CSAP administration or results, curriculum development, lesson planning, or hiring practices. Besides, whether or not you like what unions do (and I don't agree with everything they do), none of you on this board (even those of you working at non-union places) would make as much $ as you do had there not ever been unions.
July 30, 2008
5:21 p.m.
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MIKANE20 writes:
As a Special Education teacher in CO, I would like to chime in on the value of CSAP testing.
They are not what many of you think they are!
When we use assessments in Special Ed, these assessments are first NORMED. This means that the tests have been given to a large sample group prior to implementation. The results we get compare the students tested to real people of the same age/education level.
CSAP was still in the design stage when the state legislature decided to hijack the project and publish it as the be all end all statement of achievement. The test was never normed and the results hold no validity because we use arbitrary cutoffs designated by legislators for determinig proficiency. If we were comparing real students to other real strudents it would be a different story.
The other problem is that students have no accountability in the measure. They know they move on to the next grade regardless of performance. We as teachers tell them we would really appreciate it if they did their best and tried hard...and that is supposed to be enough motivation?
Every jackass who ever graduated from HS thinks they are experts on public education. They are convinced the school and time period they attended in/during was a utopia. That is a real problem. As Voltaire once said, "The gilded age never was."
July 31, 2008
7:24 p.m.
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bilinguist writes:
Michael Bennet is touting DPS's new School Performance Framework (SPF), ostensibly saying that it will assist his administration in identifying what works in education and what does not. Mr. Bennet, educating children is not something that can be mass-produced. If DPS's SPF and the state's proposed new focus on students' individual growth as measured by CSAP (a measuring device of questionable value) purport to demonstrate anything, it is that children 'learn' in very different ways. It is the job of teachers to discover those unique learning styles and find ways to support them. As the persons most directly responsible for educating children (second to parents, of course), all teachers need--and all students deserve--working and learning conditions at school that foster children's overall development. If Bennet's proposed changes to ProComp are allowed to occur, then fully half of DPS's teachers--and sadly, by corollary, their students--will not receive the support they need to be successful at school. All DPS's teachers deserve a fair contract that compensates them fairly and provides adequate time to plan, teach, assess, and analyze. They also deserve the professional respect and recognition of their expertise in their field. Otherwise, DPS's SPF will become just another acronym for an essentially meaningless statistic.
It is refreshing to hear a politician actually credit Colorado's two school districts serving students from the poorest socioeconomic groups. If the rest of society--and the government--actually begin to seriously address some of the root problems that challenge poor and minority students, we may just find that our public education system actually begins to work for that heretofore almost extinct ideal for which it was conceived: the public good.