Protesters will be heard, city says
Lawsuit testimony reveals details on plans for access
By Sara Burnett, Rocky Mountain News (Contact)
Published July 29, 2008 at 9:16 p.m.
Updated July 30, 2008 at 12:53 a.m.
Photo by George Kochaniec Jr. / The Rocky
Glen Spagnuolo of Re-create 68 Alliance expresses his feelings about protest groups' access to Democratic National Convention delegates before Tuesday's testimony.
Protesters will have ample opportunity to be heard during the Democratic National Convention, from a city-provided stage to a first-of-its-kind system to have information distributed inside the Pepsi Center, attorneys for Denver and the U.S. Secret Service said.
The city will provide two loudspeakers outside the protest zone near the Pepsi Center, according to court documents. Protesters inside the fenced zone may use the amplification system, or bring their own bullhorns.
The Democratic National Convention Committee also will set up a table of leaflets and other information from protest groups "along the main thoroughfare" used by delegates and the media, the documents state.
The DNCC believes this will mark the first time in the history of any political party's convention that such an arrangement will be in place.
The new details surfaced as lawyers tried to defend the city of Denver and U.S. Secret Service against a lawsuit filed by more than a dozen protest groups.
The groups, represented by the American Civil Liberties Union, argued during a one-day trial Tuesday that the designated protest zone and parade route are too far from delegates and others entering the convention.
The distance violates protesters' First Amendment rights to free speech, their attorneys said.
The protest zone at the Pepsi Center, for example, would be more than two football fields from the doors most delegates will use, and separated from the arena by a large media tent.
Delegates dropped off at the building will pass by the fenced-in area, from between 200 and 400 feet away. They would be allowed within 8 feet of the protesters if they choose to approach, but will be separated from them by two chain-link fences.
Mark Cohen, a member of the protest group Re-create 68 Alliance, said the organization is "totally committed" to nonviolence and has no plans to cause trouble.
But an attorney for the city said the group's Web site includes a 24-page manual of "street tactics."
The document has information on how to build shields and how to conduct a "wedge charge," in which people form a V shape, with one or two people in front, to prevent police from shutting down a march or protest.
Lawyers for the city of Denver and U.S. Secret Service say the manual shows there is a possibility for violence, and that the group isn't being honest about its plans.
Cohen said the group made the information available so protesters may protect themselves from police violence or abuse.
He also said there is a misconception that the group's name refers to the bloody protests at the 1968 convention in Chicago. Instead, he said, the name is a reference to the "mass grass-roots political movements" of the 1960s.
The Secret Service and Denver police plan to put up a fence around the Pepsi Center, creating a security perimeter accessible only to people with credentials.
A Secret Service official testified that the general public must be kept at a distance from the Pepsi Center for fear of something "catastrophic," such as a bomb or chemical attack.
"We like to consider all potential hazards," said Steven Hughes, a special agent who is in charge of security planning for the DNC.
Attorneys for both sides will return to court Thursday for closing arguments.
U.S. District Judge Marcia Krieger has not said when she will rule on the lawsuit, but the case is being heard on an expedited basis.
A separate hearing is scheduled for next month to consider similar issues at Invesco Field, where Sen. Barack Obama will accept his party's nomination on the final night of the convention.
burnetts@RockyMountainNews.com or 303-954-5343
The protesters say
* Plans to limit protester access to the Pepsi Center are "inappropriate, unnecessary and excessive."
* Delegates and others attending the convention won't be able to see or hear protesters along the parade route or inside the protest zone.
* Protesters at the Republican National Convention in Minnesota will be allowed to get much closer to the venue and delegates.
Denver and the Secret Service say
* Restrictions are necessary to ensure security and avoid something "catastropic," such as a bomb, that would cause "injury or worse."
* Protesters will have other opportunities to be heard, from information handed out inside the Pepsi Center to city streets and the sidewalks outside delegate hotels.
* Security plans are "site-specific," and Denver's situation is different from Minnesota's.
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July 29, 2008
9:12 a.m.
Suggest removal
Jack_Ryan writes:
Please explain the "protester" rational here.
Why protest the convention party of the political faction many of you protesters want to win the election in November?
Wouldn't your efforts be better served protesting the convention of the other party in the city/state where they're having that convention?
July 29, 2008
9:21 a.m.
Suggest removal
TheDenverB writes:
"Why protest the convention party of the political faction many of you protesters want to win the election in November? "
at least do some homework before commenting... they are protesting the direction the party has gone and their failure to end the war (for starters). while other groups are protesting the two party system as a whole, still others have their reasons...
but really, even if you don't agree with them, think they are all stupid hippies or whatever.. at least BE INFORMED on why they say they are there.
(fwiw, i'm sick of hearing about them as well)
July 29, 2008
9:34 a.m.
Suggest removal
ifyem writes:
DenverB,
Well maybe they should tell us exactly what and why they are protesting...I haven't heard anything on the news about the particular themes behind their protests, it just seems like they are going to protest whatever they don't agree with in our system. I am also curious as to how many liberal protestors are going to be in Minneapolis for the RNC, as I think it would be quite counterproductive for there to be more liberals here protesting their own convention than up in Minneapolis protesting the RNC. All in all, nothing will be accomplished by these protestors anyways..
July 29, 2008
9:40 a.m.
Suggest removal
TheDenverB writes:
a conservative with all of your faculties like that conservative who shot up that Tennessee church because he hated liberals so much?
there's nuts on both sides -- and you prove that for us almost daily, chase.
July 29, 2008
9:47 a.m.
Suggest removal
Michael writes:
"Freedom does not belong in a cage"......true.....but Spagnuolo certainly appears like he does!!! This is the same guy who thinks that "freedom of speech" DOES NOT apply if you want to hold a Christopher Columbus Day parade. Remember that about this thug. He is all for throwing blood (or simulated version) at Columbus Day parade participants, blocking their right of way, harassing them, shouting at them, and demanding they cease and desist from their "racist" activity. He is a hypocrite of the first order.
July 29, 2008
9:50 a.m.
Suggest removal
TheDenverB writes:
"Well maybe they should tell us exactly what and why they are protesting, I haven't heard anything on the news about the particular themes behind their protests,..."
go to their websites then as opposed to waiting for the news to feed it to you. it's pretty easy.
that said, it seems you could care less about their reasons and are going to blindly lump them all together as accomplishing nothing.
again, i don't really agree with much of what they are doing, but at least I can back that opinion with some informed logic.
July 29, 2008
9:55 a.m.
Suggest removal
theairdog writes:
Good thing he is getting practice wearing the orange jumpsuit.
July 29, 2008
9:55 a.m.
Suggest removal
TheDenverB writes:
i mean, it took me ten seconds to find this:
"R68 agrees with the proposition, POTESTAS IN POPULO, “all power comes from the people.” What stands between the people and power are the party machines. The parties were devised as a means to represent the people. Today they represent nobody, not even party members, but only party bureaucracy. The people have been left without appropriate institutions for their representation. We intend to create those institutions!
Join us in the streets of Denver as we resist a two-party system that allows imperialism and racism to continue unrestrained."
I also think you get confused because you think anyone you can label as a 'liberal' is automatically a democrat. which is as absurd as thinking all conservatives really like john mccain...
July 29, 2008
9:56 a.m.
Suggest removal
18Zwife writes:
The one thing that these protestors always accomplish is that they end up costing the city they’re protesting in, money. Their “free speech” isn’t free for everyone else.
July 29, 2008
10 a.m.
Suggest removal
HankRearden writes:
I hope that Recreate68 will be granted full back stage passes to the whole circus. I want to hear their message. Glenn Spagnuolo, Code Pink, Michael Moore need to bring radical change to the Democratic Party. Why hide the party’s base? They should be proudly displayed for all to see. They need to be showcased for the American people. Then we can have a clear choice. It would also provide a much needed distraction for the Messiah’s astounding lack of accomplishing anything over a life time of “public service”.
July 29, 2008
10:06 a.m.
Suggest removal
ifyem writes:
R68 agrees with the proposition, POTESTAS IN POPULO, “all power comes from the people.” What stands between the people and power are the party machines. The parties were devised as a means to represent the people. Today they represent nobody, not even party members, but only party bureaucracy. The people have been left without appropriate institutions for their representation. We intend to create those institutions!
DenverB: Well duh...I just want to hear it from their own mouths when they are hooping and holllering on Channel 4 news every night. I have observed protests not only here, but also in Costa Rica and New Zealand, and I will tell you that the majority of the protestors here in the U.S. don't even have a clue of what they are actually protesting. They are narrow-minded, undereducated college kids in my opinion..
July 29, 2008
10:09 a.m.
Suggest removal
Cowboy63 writes:
These guys aren't about free speech - they are demanding to be heard. That is a different matter entirely.
You can protest all you want, but that doesn't mean anyone has to take you seriously or that you get to be imune to the laws of the city.
March, make speeches, protest, hand out flyers - whatever you feel you need to do. However; damaging property, resisting arrest or blocking streets should be dealt with accordingly.
Note: if your political "free speech" activities require that you wear a mask - expect some trouble. It's your choice.
July 29, 2008
10:18 a.m.
Suggest removal
Miss_Kitty_Kat_Girl writes:
If GS gets a back stage pass then I want one too!
July 29, 2008
10:31 a.m.
Suggest removal
sheepherder writes:
If only that duct tape on Glenn's mouth was permanant! That would solve alot of problems! Funny how he's protesting with "free speech" taped over his mouth! I don't see him getting arrested, what a moron!
July 29, 2008
10:32 a.m.
Suggest removal
davies writes:
Miss Kitty: Are you attracted to Mr. Spago? Or what's your point?
July 29, 2008
10:33 a.m.
Suggest removal
noneyabeeswax writes:
I'm all for free speech, but Glen Spagnuolo needs to get over himself.
July 29, 2008
10:34 a.m.
DenverDan writes:
(This comment was removed by the site staff.)
July 29, 2008
10:37 a.m.
Suggest removal
TheDenverB writes:
"When this so-called consevative the left has latch on to trying to prove the right is as bad as they are, shot up that church he ceased being a consevative if he ever was one in the first place, and crossed that line into your world."
lol. great shaky logic there, buddy and a helluva backpedal.
so, once you shoot someone you become a liberal? i thought liberals weren't for guns...
"Your group has the monopoly on nuts as this event called the DNC is proving as time for the Dems to have a their freat and whacko show."
you again prove how blind and nutty you are, bud. failing to recognize that folks on your 'conservative' side of the isle can't be as nutty as those on the other side shows your blind party affiliation and true senselessness.
thanks chase, for once again proving yourself to not be a thinking individual.
July 29, 2008
10:39 a.m.
Suggest removal
LingLingfor_prez writes:
How is the Kool-Aid today DenverDan?
July 29, 2008
10:42 a.m.
Suggest removal
TheDenverB writes:
"well duh...I just want to hear it from their own mouths when they are hooping and holllering on Channel 4 news every night."
um... i think pulling it from their website would be akin to hearing it from their own mouths.
and i hear them talking about it all fo the time when they get the chance... but the thing is the news stories aren't about WHY they are protesting, rather simply that they are protesting and all of the hooplah that comes with that.
for better or for worse, their message is being put on the backburner whle people focus more on the fact that they are simply protesting.
again, you are waiting for a third party (the news) to tell you what they think instead of searching it our yourself.
I will tell you that the majority of the protestors here in the U.S. don't even have a clue of what they are actually protesting. They are narrow-minded, undereducated college kids in my opinion"
great. but as you said, that's your opinon. and in my opinion, based on observations in this cty throughout the last few years... they are rather informed for the most part, its' just that most people don't agree with what they have to say and chalk it up to them being "narrow-minded, undereducated college kids".
July 29, 2008
10:43 a.m.
Suggest removal
davies writes:
Yeah Denver Dan, thanks so much for your little display of liberal bigotry. Not unexpected at all.
July 29, 2008
10:43 a.m.
Suggest removal
jugdish writes:
"Join us in the streets of Denver as we resist a two-party system that allows imperialism and racism to continue unrestrained."
Jugdish hear these type of words before. Sound like communism.
But free speech in this great country allow all to speak. Even people with bad idea like communism. The thing that bother me is these protestors do not respect that freedom of speech. It very precious. And to disrespect it by breaking law to make a point is shameful and go against everything that free speech stand for. I never understand someone who wave that free speech banner then shout down others when they try to speak. Hypcocracy.
July 29, 2008
10:44 a.m.
Suggest removal
ColdShot writes:
Dan, why are you a complete moron!?! Does it somehow get you the attention you are so starved for! You pathetic liberal nuttjob!!
July 29, 2008
10:45 a.m.
Suggest removal
HankRearden writes:
Bidding starts at $100 for the right to rip the tape off of Glen's mouth. It looks like good quality duct tape. Finally a little lip (literally) from Glen that has value.
July 29, 2008
10:46 a.m.
Suggest removal
TheDenverB writes:
and btw chase,
i dont' have "a group". unlike you, i'm not a blindly-following political sheep that tows party lines like cheering for the hometown football team through thick or thin.
both sides have nuts, and both sides have smart people who make sense.
it's too bad that there are way too many people like you ON BOTH SIDES of the isle who can't see that, though. we'd all be a lot better of if you did.
July 29, 2008
10:46 a.m.
Suggest removal
anderson writes:
JackRyan, YIOTA is stymied by anything more complicated that it's us v. them, but maybe you'll understand: most protesters will probably tell you that the Democrats (as well as the Republicans) are serving big money rather than the interests of the public. You are unlikely to hear this discussed on Fox or CNN, but if you listen to, say, Ralph Nader, you might get a flavor for the problem.
July 29, 2008
10:48 a.m.
Suggest removal
temurlan writes:
The recreate68 nuts scared me but now the anarchists look even worse. I don't want to see downtown trashed but that's exactly what these nuts want.
Time to borrow a page from Sheriff Joe's book from Phoenix. Create a "Tent City" well out of site and get the prisoner buses and pink underware ready. Of course, we should have some special blue underware for the code pink nuts.
July 29, 2008
10:50 a.m.
Suggest removal
anderson writes:
Trythinking, Glen Spagnuolo hurts you how, so that you fantasy getting "tough" with him? You must be a REAL MAN.
July 29, 2008
10:54 a.m.
Suggest removal
Michael writes:
Liberals protesting liberals? - freethought
Let's get our terminology and definitions all in sync here. Spagnuolo and his crowd are not liberals - they are part of the far left-wing, radical fringe element. Joe Lieberman is a liberal. Ted Kennedy is a liberal. Katie Couric is a liberal. I don't have much use for liberals but I can deal with them and respect (somewhat) their positions. Spagnuolo, MoveOn.org, Soros, Code Pink, etc....these are far left extremists. They have no respect for much of anything other then their own opinions and how they think the world should be and should be run. They do not respect the rule of law and do not feel constrained by it to make their opinions known - if that means destroying private/public property or any other illegal activity. Their "freedom of speech" and other rights are paramount and all other's rights mean nothing.
July 29, 2008
11:01 a.m.
Suggest removal
DenverDan writes:
coldshot
Did that hit home, sorry truth hurts. Please dont shoot,
July 29, 2008
11:02 a.m.
Suggest removal
sheepherder writes:
I think you succeded freethought! Thats funny they would actually remove it! Well done. BUT, I think you missed my point....he is excercising his right to free speech in the picture, with tape over his mouth...ironic, don't ya think?
Your reading comprehension is at about a third grade level.
July 29, 2008
11:16 a.m.
Suggest removal
HankRearden writes:
Anderson,
It was an attempt at humor, but I forgot liberals don't have a sense of humor. I'll explain for you. Duct tape is very sticky. It can and does remove skin and hair if applied to the skin. Removing it rapidly (like your mom pulling off a Band-Aid) can also remove skin. Since he applied it to his lips, I made a play-on-words. "Giving lip" is slang for talking to someone in a derogatory manner, but I used it in a literal manner implying actually giving lip by Glen's lip adhering to the duct tape when removed.
I don't want to punish Glen. He is a clown and someone worthy of being laughed at and pitied not punished. I was actually surprised that he is not a 20 something guy. He seems to be old enough to know better.
He doesn't hurt me at all. As I said earlier I support his efforts. I encourage more Glens to exercise their free speech rights. If he wins his suit great; if he loses he'll just come up with another way to disrupt the DNC. Power to the people Glen!
July 29, 2008
11:21 a.m.
Suggest removal
DenverDan writes:
McCain hates white people!
July 29, 2008
11:22 a.m.
Suggest removal
anderson writes:
YIOTA, he asked a fairly simple and straight forward question: why are the protesters protesting the Democrats? You replied in knee-jerk fashion: "Liberals"--showing that you have nothing more to say than you think half the world is wrong/flawed/against you. And how do we know they are wrong/flawed/bad/stupid/unredeemable/always against you? Because you called them a name? Gotcha.
What will you hear on Glenn Beck? The protesters point of view? I highly doubt it.
July 29, 2008
11:32 a.m.
Suggest removal
anderson writes:
Trythinking, yes, your brand of humor is a little like Shakespeare having Shylock ask for a pound of flesh. Only, he didn't really mean for Shylock to get it. How does it feel to be so superior that you go around wishing violence on someone you don't like and think that you're funny in doing so?
July 29, 2008
11:51 a.m.
Suggest removal
SickNTired writes:
DenverDan ... Obama hates white people! Just listen to his reverend.
July 29, 2008
11:54 a.m.
Suggest removal
Crub writes:
That group should be disbanded. Get over it! Don't let your rights go to your head...you're the ones that cause most of the problems in today's world. Shut up!
July 29, 2008
11:55 a.m.
Suggest removal
squeakywheel writes:
I wonder if the mainstream media will cover the demonstrations at all.
They must expect violence or they wouldn't cage the protesters.
I fully expect that the truly zealous protesters will not submit or identify themselves as protesters, and then they will cause problems outside the cage. Yes, they will be "harrassed" by the security forces. And the drive-by media won't be able to ignore it.
The reason they are protesting at the DNC is because they Dems supposedly won the 2006 on the unfulfilled promise to end the war. However, that's not why they won. It was because of Republican scandals and the fact that the Dems ran campaigns based on conservative platforms. Also Hillary's supporters feel that Obama stole the nomination.
The world is upside down when Democrats run as conservatives and Republicans run as liberals.
July 29, 2008
noon
Suggest removal
Crub writes:
I heard a comment once...it went: Republicans think everyday is the 4th of July, while Democrats think every day is tax day. The party's got to end sometime...your party has caused the deficit to become the largest on record ever. Food for thought. Spend, spend, spend, spend, spend, spend, spend, spend...etc...
July 29, 2008
12:06 p.m.
Suggest removal
jay writes:
"The reason they are protesting at the DNC is because they Dems supposedly won the 2006 on the unfulfilled promise to end the war"
the dems never promised to end funding for the troops in combat.
that is a myth.
the republicans lost congress in 06 because of their track record and because of the fact that they repeatedly refused to enact the will of the american people.
we'll see more of the same in 08
July 29, 2008
12:10 p.m.
Suggest removal
TheDenverB writes:
"SEND 'EM TO HAVANA OR BEJING TO LEARN MORE ABOUT FREE SPEECH...5 YEARS AGO, FREE-SPEECH WOULD HAVE COST THEM THEIR TONGUES IN BAGHDAD!"
your point is what? that they would further appreciate the free speech they are practicing here?
'squatch, sometimes i like to envision you as some wiry old grey-haired coot smoking a pipe on his old cabin porch while sipping moonshine and staring at the window at the weather trying to disprove climate change.
All the while shooting salt-filled shotgun shells at kids who come onto your lawn to get their baseball and writing daily letters to the president about your local ills.
i know that's not accurate, but it makes me feel better about who you are if I make myself believe it is true.
July 29, 2008
12:16 p.m.
Suggest removal
HankRearden writes:
Anderson,
I'm sorry I got your panties in a bunch.
Nice term - "Wishing violence on someone" LOL.
Is that the next thing to be banned? How about the dreaded "Hoping for harm"? or "Imagining inconvenience"? or "Willing woe"?
Your humor beats my attempt.
July 29, 2008
12:22 p.m.
Suggest removal
dilligaf writes:
Just did some research and it only took 5 minutes. I looked up the definition of protest. No where and I mean no where did I see the word liberal attached to it. So I guess someone needs to show me where all these people are liberals.
July 29, 2008
12:27 p.m.
Suggest removal
ifyem writes:
DenverB,
Get a life man and quit criticizing everyone on this forum...No I am not waiting for the news to come to me..Your opinion is based on an assumption, not facts..I hope you don't make all of your important life decisions based on mere assumptions buddy..I have done a little research on the Recreate '68 guys, and it just doesn't make any sense to me why they would be protesting an event where the Democrats are nominating the so-called "man of the people." Should I waste any more time "researching" these guys and what they stand for?? I think I would rather go rearrange my sock drawer after work....
July 29, 2008
12:35 p.m.
Suggest removal
squeakywheel writes:
That's right, the Dems didn't promise to end the war when campaigning on 2006. That's why I said "supposedly". But right after the election, Pelosi and cohorts were claiming that's why they won.
I was responding to the question about why they are protesting at the DNC rather than the RNC. It's because the Dems are invested in defeat.
July 29, 2008
12:40 p.m.
Suggest removal
TheDenverB writes:
"Your opinion is based on an assumption, not facts.."
"
well, judging by your comments it was safe to assume that you didn't go to the website of the protest group yoruself and look up what they were protesting. you then go on to say that every time you see them on the news, they don't tell you why they were protesting...
again, i think it was a safe assumption that you are waiting for the news to deliver the information to you as opposed to searching it out yourself.
"I have done a little research on the Recreate '68 guys, and it just doesn't make any sense to me why they would be protesting an event where the Democrats are nominating the so-called "man of the people." Should I waste any more time "researching" these guys and what they stand for?"
well then clearly you should research it a bit more, if that is what you got from it...
again, if you don't care then you don't care and more power to you if that's the case... but if that's not the case, don't pretend my assumption wasn't accurate (because it's clear from your posts that is is)
again, it doesn't make sense to you likely because you group all 'liberals' together.
but if it helps, i'll boil it down to a simple explanation: they are protesting the fact that it is primarily a two-party system and that the party they THOUGHT represented them is not doing so now.
does that make any more sense to you?
and feel free to organizd your sock drawer, but don't expect people to want to try and carry on a thoughtful conversation with you on this matter if you chose to not inform yourself on it.
July 29, 2008
12:51 p.m.
Suggest removal
davies writes:
sheepherder to freethought: "Your reading comprehension is at about a third grade level."
Apparently so is your comprehension of irony: The guy is wearing duct tape over his mouth as a symbol of the repression of free speech. No, it is not ironic that he is protesting for his free speech rights by wearing duct tape over his mouth. The observer is supposed to see the duct tape over his mouth, and understand that he is unable to speak freely. This is called imagery.
So sheepherder, your opinions on free speech are stupid, and you should shut up. (There, now that is irony.)
July 29, 2008
12:51 p.m.
Suggest removal
ifyem writes:
i'll boil it down to a simple explanation: they are protesting the fact that it is primarily a two-party system and that the party they THOUGHT represented them is not doing so now.
So, DenverB, tell me why they think that Obama is not representing them..For the most part, he stands for everything that these protestors stand for, except now he is backpeddaling and saying that we won't leave Iraq immediately if he is elected..Give me a little explanation as you have obviously done a bit more research than me and frankly I dont have the time to conduct my own research right now....
July 29, 2008
12:57 p.m.
Suggest removal
me2 writes:
DenverB. If the Squash was a woman, he would be that strange old mean lady down the block who "has cats".
How do you like that mental image?
I am still laughing over the idea that wanting a multi party political system somehow makes these protesters communists.
I thought communists wanted a one party system, only their party.
Man some people throw words and terms around like confetti at a birthday party.
July 29, 2008
1:02 p.m.
Suggest removal
davies writes:
If the protesters don't like the protest area designated by the DNC, then why don't they just protest outside of it? If they get arrested for non-violently protesting about the protest area, they will surely be released on their personal recognizance (because you know, who's got the room?), in which case they can then go out and protest getting arrested for protesting the protest area.
July 29, 2008
1:09 p.m.
Suggest removal
hillbillygoth writes:
two-party system?? sort of like "good" guys and "bad" guys on
professional wrestling? I suggest preparing your sheeple selves
for the party known as The New World Order.
July 29, 2008
1:12 p.m.
Suggest removal
anderson writes:
ifyem, obviously the protester's point of view, and the distinction between them and Obama, is over your head or you just aren't interested. As I mentioned to another poster, they aren't going to give the protester view any space on Fox or CNN, so all the good media consumers who see every political issue in simple and binary terms, won't understand except to be offended or fearful somehow that protesters exist.
July 29, 2008
1:13 p.m.
Suggest removal
davies writes:
I don't even want to think about what a 'hillbilly goth' is.
July 29, 2008
1:16 p.m.
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LuckyMe writes:
Michael says: "They have no respect for much of anything other then their own opinions and how they think the world should be and should be run. They do not respect the rule of law and do not feel constrained by it to make their opinions known - if that means destroying private/public property or any other illegal activity. Their "freedom of speech" and other rights are paramount and all other's rights mean nothing." Isn't that 99.99% of all elected officials? I find it interesting that some of the people on this thread are so up in arms over something that HASN'T happened. Unless someone is hiding a time machine, all this babble is nothing more than pure speculation. I don't agree with "far right/left" groups as I think that we must be able to compromise to come up with a solution for everyone. After all, we all have different view points and needs. But to sit here and call people names and point fingers is truely childish. It reminds me of little kids threatening each other with "My big brother can beat up your big brother so there!" I may not like what recreate 68 stands for, but I admire the fact that people are confident enough to stand up for themselves and exercise their RIGHTS as Americans. It's not UnAmerican what this group is doing. As a matter of fact, it's their duty so see that the government is not trampling all over the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. And we all know how Bush feels about that "damn piece of paper". I say bring on the protesters. They obviously have something to say to the powers that be. But unfortunately, it will be a cold day in hell if the government actually listens to the people for a change.
July 29, 2008
1:17 p.m.
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GILPINMAN writes:
I WANT A GOO GUN!
July 29, 2008
1:18 p.m.
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EnlightenedOne writes:
Mr. Spagnuolo has every right to protest for whatever cause(s) he believes in. However, he has no right to disrupt the routines of others who have to work downtown. If he's truly committed to non-violent protest, then he should have no problem carrying out his protest in the designated area defined by his permit.
July 29, 2008
1:23 p.m.
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hillbillygoth writes:
davies...I'm gonna take that as a compliment!
July 29, 2008
1:23 p.m.
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anderson writes:
LuckyMe: never underestimate the power of ghosts, or the willingness of soothsayers like Mike Rosen to conjure them up.
July 29, 2008
1:25 p.m.
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sheepherder writes:
Davies, it's not irony, it's idiocy. Demanding free speech while you are in a protest (although foolish) excercising your right to free speech. Get it? Is his free speech being repressed? No. Is he being arrested? No. IDIOCY! And Davies bought into it...that's our American public today...ill informed.
July 29, 2008
1:29 p.m.
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davies writes:
hillbillygoth: I'm glad you take it that way. One of the best 'handles' I've seen here. Maybe we'll have a good argument one of these days...
July 29, 2008
1:37 p.m.
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TheDenverB writes:
"So, DenverB, tell me why they think that Obama is not representing them..For the most part, he stands for everything that these protestors stand for, except now he is backpeddaling and saying that we won't leave Iraq immediately if he is elected"
how can i tell you that? i'm not part of recreate 68... only they can speak specifically to that....
but, judging by what i know about the situation (which you admit is more than you know) you answer your own question in that sentence.
again, they are partially protesting the party that said they would do one thing then failed to do it (iraq), putting them (in the protestors minds) at a level no better than the OTHER party that they feel has done nothing but lie to them.
but again, this isn't about me explaining THEIR position. I don't care to do so. I don't really care if you chose to learn more about them either. that's your deal...
and again it seems you look to someone else (the news, me) to explain their position to YOU instead of seeking it out yourself.
that said, it's clear your posting now just to get into it with me as opposed to actually wanting to discuss the protesters and their motives.
July 29, 2008
1:53 p.m.
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LuckyMe writes:
Anderson,
I don't believe in ghost or soothsayers. I also don't believe the sky is falling. The DNC, the protesters, & the election will pass and we will move on with our everyday lives. Why get so upset when no one person here can honestly say what's going to happen. WHat if nothing happens, what then? But thanks for your concern.
July 29, 2008
2 p.m.
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EnlightenedOne writes:
Michael writes:
This is the same guy who thinks that "freedom of speech" DOES NOT apply if you want to hold a Christopher Columbus Day parade.
You make an excellent point, Michael. Thank you for pointing out Mr. Spagnuolo's hypocracy.
July 29, 2008
2:07 p.m.
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ifyem writes:
DenverB,
While I do applaud you on conducting such thorough research, I just do not believe that the majority of the protestors will be in Denver solely to resist the two-party movement. So what will be the other reasons?? Sorry, but I do not buy into their website propoganda and that is why I wanted you to attempt to explain it to me. I think that the majority of these protestors are delusional if they believe that their presense in Denver will actually change the political system that has existed in this country for decades. I am curious how many other flourishing democracies in this world are not two-party systems? Now, that is the type of research that I will be conducting this evening!!!
July 29, 2008
2:10 p.m.
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Gonzopozo writes:
Where did all my college friends (remember Vietnam?) go?
July 29, 2008
2:22 p.m.
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sheepherder writes:
Davies...he is expressing free speech, by stating he doesn't have free speech? If that moronic expression appeals to you, I would say your view of free sheech are stupid, and you should shut up.
July 29, 2008
2:33 p.m.
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anderson writes:
Ho. History again peeks over the tabletop. We can pretend the whole universe consists of our lifetime and experiences only, and poo-pooh anything or anyone (like the protesters) whose actions don't make sense to us, but we have this thing called history that's right behind us, and yes, I see some familar faces, places and things: Thomas Paine, Rosa Parks, MLK Jr., women looking to vote, farmers, workers, Vietnam, Iraq. We can pretend all this doesn't exist or doesn't matter, and that's what people sometimes do.
July 29, 2008
2:37 p.m.
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TheDenverB writes:
"While I do applaud you on conducting such thorough research, I just do not believe that the majority of the protesters will be in Denver solely to resist the two-party movement."
great. but we aren't talking about all of them here, are we? In this instance, here on this thread, we are talking specifically about the group Recreate 68, which has made clear their reasons for protesting.
i agree that there are thousands of protesters coming, each with their own reasons... but again, we are specifically discussing THIS group... not all protesters together.
im sure there are other groups who are protesting for completely different reasons...
"Sorry, but I do not buy into their website propaganda and that is why I wanted you to attempt to explain it to me. "
again, why should i be the one to explain it to you?
"I think that the majority of these protesters are delusional if they believe that their presence in Denver will actually change the political system that has existed in this country for decades."
well, it seems from that statement that you truly don't care what their reasons for protesting are and that you've already made up your mind about ALL of the protestors and their reasons for doing so... so again, i don't know why i even care to carry this on with you if all you were doing is PRETENDING to care about being more open minded....
and fwiw, what is more idiotic: sitting back and accepting a system you know doesnt work becuase it's been in place 'for decades' or actually standing up for what you see as wrong in the country you live in and love? i'd agree they are delusional, and i bet they'd even admit it's far fetched...
but at least they are out there doing something about it and not sitting back like sheep -- agree with them or not, they are exercising their rights we separated from England more than 200 years ago for.
"I am curious how many other flourishing democracies in this world are not two-party systems? Now, that is the type of research that I will be conducting this evening!!!"
you seem to miss the point on this as well...as for the two-party system part of it, they are basically saying we only have two choices in this country when that is NOT what it was founded on. we should have more than jsut democrats and republicans and their two very clearly defined party lines to vote for, and we simply do not have that. They feel that the current power structure of the two party system keeps itself in place and prevents third and fourth and fifth and however many other parties at bay....
feel free to look into that more, however, before you open your mouth (or move your fingers) and make yourself appear ignorant by choice.
July 29, 2008
2:41 p.m.
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timeandagain writes:
Do you think Glenn Spagnuolo took I-25 or Santa Fe into downtown this morning on his commute from his home in Highlands Ranch??
July 29, 2008
2:42 p.m.
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TheDenverB writes:
also, fwiw:
"I think that the majority of these protesters are delusional if they believe that their presence in Denver will actually change the political system that has existed in this country for decades."
im sure people said the same things about the people and groups that Anderson mentions above my post... thankfully those people were wrong then...
July 29, 2008
2:46 p.m.
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Alive writes:
I say let em protest as long as they behave. At least they aren't like the anarchists trying to extort money.
July 29, 2008
2:47 p.m.
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sheepherder writes:
beefeater, you must not have read above comments...sorry for the typo, yes...available on e-bay for $19.95 each:)
July 29, 2008
2:51 p.m.
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davies writes:
Now Sheepy, don't get mad, I'm sorry, I was just trying to be funny:
See, when I said that your opinions on free speech were stupid and you should shut up, I was saying that your right to free speech should be restricted. Get it?
Nobody gets me.
July 29, 2008
2:55 p.m.
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ifyem writes:
DenverB,
You seem to miss all of my points as well. Sorry but I dont feel the need to elaborate as thoroughly as you as I had hoped that you could see the forest for the trees. However, you do not so I am afraid we've reached an impasse. Have a HAPPY day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
July 29, 2008
3:09 p.m.
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TheDenverB writes:
"You seem to miss all of my points as well. "
what points? you just have no valid points and i have wasted most of my day proving that to you and everyone else on here.
forest for the trees? you had to change the point of the argument to better fit the thoughtless responses you had given earlier...
you proved yourself to be very uninformed on this -- so what "points" did you have that were really worth anything? That not all of the protesters are going to protest for the same reasons? my dog could have told me that, bud.
but again, that wasn't what we were discussing. we were discussing the SPECIFIC group of Recreate 68....
you can't even seem to see the forest, the trees or even the parks department service road today.
July 29, 2008
3:16 p.m.
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davies writes:
mymilehi: Who?
July 29, 2008
3:18 p.m.
DenverDan writes:
(This comment was removed by the site staff.)
July 29, 2008
3:31 p.m.
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Miss_Kitty_Kat_Girl writes:
LuckyMe writes:
It's not UnAmerican what this group is doing. As a matter of fact, it's their duty so see that the government is not trampling all over the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.
===============================
The DNC is not the governemnt. The DNC is not shutting them up. The DNC is providing the protesters a designated area (free of charge) so they can say and shout all they want W/O interferring with my right to attend and enjoy the DNC.
July 29, 2008
3:40 p.m.
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COLibertarian writes:
Racist? Wow new ethnic designation for bearded hippies.
Does that include goatees, long hair working in an ultra corporate setting like me? Do I get to feel the wrath of Beefeaters "racism".... :-)
Beefeater, please quit picking on me :-)
July 29, 2008
3:44 p.m.
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Mr_Hyde writes:
squeakywheel writes:
"The world is upside down when Democrats run as conservatives and Republicans run as liberals." Wow, I couldn't disagree more. Some of these candidates should run on platforms that please the masses. They work for us. If people don't get all tied up in the political system and follow the parties like sheep just to be lumped into some sort of club, they might actually form opinions on all of the issues as opposed to throwing a blanket on all of them. No matter how many parties we have in this country, there will never be any that please everybody. They are supposed to be representatives of the people (i.e. us) Most people I know (including myself) agree with some of the candidates ideas and disagree with others and try to vote for the right person for the job, not for a political party.
Michael: Nice post man. They guy is a complete hypocrite when he says he stands for free speech and then blocks a Columbus day parade.
The story really has nothing to do with free speech. Nobody is denying him or his group free speech. They are just telling him where his group can legally assemble. Personally, if I was in the secret service and I had a group called "recreate '68" (Sugar coat it all you want, the 1968 DNC was a blood bath) insisting on being physically closer to the deligates, I'd squash it too.
July 29, 2008
3:46 p.m.
DenverDan writes:
(This comment was removed by the site staff.)
July 29, 2008
3:48 p.m.
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Mr_Hyde writes:
Well said Kitty_Kat
July 29, 2008
3:50 p.m.
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temurlan writes:
"The groups, represented by the American Civil Liberties Union, say security measures will violate their right to free speech."
What about everyone else's need for safety and use of the facility that they are paying for? I wonder, in the event that there is violence or damages, could the organizers that encourage violent tactics be charged or held liable?
July 29, 2008
3:56 p.m.
DenverDan writes:
(This comment was removed by the site staff.)
July 29, 2008
4:05 p.m.
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COLibertarian writes:
Looks like we have a homophobe in our midst?
DenverDan, then what do you propose for a solution here regarding R68 and other protesters that are coming out for this "Festivity"? Do we allow them full access? More access than what is currently defined? What? Lets hear your plan and put you in charge. Full responsibility for keeping our freedoms intact. But.....errr Full Accountability for any violence, destruction that HAS been promised by these groups......until they are under oath.....hmmmmmm
July 29, 2008
4:07 p.m.
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COLibertarian writes:
btw. I would be for letting them have full access. But again I am not accountable for the potential fallout of that decision either.
July 29, 2008
4:20 p.m.
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ifyem writes:
DenverB,
You obviously do not read well. I feel sorry for you....Chucklehead!!
July 29, 2008
4:29 p.m.
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DenverDan writes:
COLibertarian
I would do the same that is being done. The eyes of the world will be on Colorado as we host the next Pres. Even if the GOP was here I would not want something bad or stupid to happen in our state. Even if Rush and the freaks on the right want it to happen.
Obama 08
July 29, 2008
4:34 p.m.
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moebius08 writes:
what happened to the children of the 60's? apparently they have all become old and comfortable with the status quo. The DNC protesters are doing the right thing to bring the insane situation we have allowed to promulgate in our goverment houses to light.
Both parties are exactly the same and need to be disbanded, the lobbiests driven out and the government forced back to the representative form of self government envisioned by the Founding Fathers during the virginia convention
July 29, 2008
4:34 p.m.
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dirty writes:
If you can stomach some of the lovely Glen's Political writings, you'll find that he doesn't believe that US law applies to him (for a variety of BS reasons), so its always good to see him using US law to get what he wants...what a fricking scumbag
July 29, 2008
4:37 p.m.
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LuckyMe writes:
Yes thank you for that Miss Kitty Kat, however, what do you think all the protesting is all about? Sarcasm set aside please if you will.
July 29, 2008
4:38 p.m.
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HopiMedicineMan writes:
Eight UH-60 Black Hawks toured the suburbs this morning. (Hopefully they'll find the event locations in time for the fires.)
July 29, 2008
4:49 p.m.
DenverDan writes:
(This comment was removed by the site staff.)
July 29, 2008
4:56 p.m.
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LOUIE writes:
This DNC is going to be like Dr.Hook and the Medicine Show's "Freakers Bal'' and I quote: "...all the f@gs and the dykes will be boogeying together, the leather freaks dressed in all kinds of leather. The greatest of the sadist, and the masochists too, saying "Please beat me, while I beat you. Pyromaniacs striking matches, necrophilliacs falling in batches. Smear my body up with butter, we're going to the Freaker's Ball"!" Dr. Hook was a piece of real scooter trash, made it big, and he made many laugh. Most famous was his "Cover of the Rolling Stone".The DNC kind of reminds of the "Freaker's Ball" with the odd assortment of supporters and demonstrators.
July 29, 2008
5:06 p.m.
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Scott writes:
Louie,
You're showin' your age. The Dr. Hook song I always liked was from the PBS show VD Blues. PBS produced it back in the early 70s. The lyrics went:
Don't give a dose, to the one you love most,
Give 'er some marmalade give 'er some toast.
You can give 'er a partridge, in a pear tree,
But the dose that you give 'er, will get back to me. ....
Kinda reminds you of Kennedys and Slick, don't it?
Thanks for the memories,
Scott
July 29, 2008
5:11 p.m.
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DenverDan writes:
McCain hates white people and children.
July 29, 2008
5:22 p.m.
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Marmot writes:
We're in two wars, folks. Chill out. At this moment in history we should err well on the side of security. The last thing our country can afford is a terrorism incident during this convention. Free speech takes many forms other than street protests, all of which are well protected in this country. Plus, the press will cover the protests during the DNC and that coverage, not a direct interaction with delegates by protesters, is where any protest is likely to be effective.
July 29, 2008
5:26 p.m.
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rickg19611 writes:
DNC and catastrophe in the same sentence. No news there.....
July 29, 2008
5:52 p.m.
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The_Punnisher writes:
Why is OUR SS acting like the German SS of the 1930's???
( yeah I know about Godwin's Law, but the question needs to be asked. )
Since when are the LEOs supposed to PREVENT something like FREE SPEECH???
What are they afraid of ? Non-PC thought?
Expressions of discontent? After all, we should be is as much a LOCK-STEP as the SS.....
Remember, the DNC is NOT the government......
Yet our SS wants to treat it that way....
July 29, 2008
5:52 p.m.
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h8r writes:
I think I would rather live in a country that got nuked by "terrorists" than live in a country that sets up free speech zones and beats up citizens willy-nilly because they violate arbitrary fascist proclamations about when, where, and how you can say something.
Which is worse, a total police state or a bunch of anarchists having a parade?
To dumb it down into "freedom speak," when you have to go into a cage to have a protest, when the police beat you to death, tase you, use dogs against you, and arbitrarily imprison you because you are in the wrong place, the terrorists WIN.
I think we don't even need terrorists, as we are fully capable of destroying our own country with little outside help.
July 29, 2008
5:52 p.m.
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drkenne writes:
If the democrats are not put on notice that the course the neocons (Bushites) put the US on can and will not be tolerated, then it will be politics as usual. The democrats were voted in back in 2006 in order to make change, but so far done nothing to show me they want to change the course. Instead of investigations in the abuse of power by this administration, it was steroids in sports.
If not the people, who will hold government accountable? Other politicians?
July 29, 2008
6:42 p.m.
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LOUIE writes:
Saw an article where thet say the mayor's still short 10 million, from his promise no tax money would be used for this event. Did anyone check and get a rate from the high rollers at "Lloyds of London", to maybe cover any damages to our city, should things go south? Wonder if it's possible to insure a public calamity of mayhem, should it happen, stemming from such a large public event? Anyone, please? Hope somebody has collected the insurance bonds for the public parks being used. Whether daytime use, or the city relents and allows camping overnight, it's going to have an adverse impact on not only the parks used, but even private people and property. Even private property may get damaged in the event of confrontation(s). Wonder if the residents living thier have proper insurance to cover damages from a possible spill over? Yeah, I need to chill, the mayor's got it under control, along with the governor. They are not foolish about what is going on, and they've prepared the city well I hope. Faith Lou, I am wearing the paint through to the wood on my worry beads, the guy hanging on the end of the beads is all I think we have now that it's coming for sure, and he's looking kind rough hanging there like that. Prayer and more prayer...
July 29, 2008
6:49 p.m.
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Mr_Hyde writes:
H8R, what the hell are you talking about? Nobody is stopping their right to speak, they are just keeping a seperation between the protesters and the convention goers to insure civility....I don't have a problem with the protester speaking thier minds, but the city would be stupid to give them full access to the people they are protesting against.....Whats wrong with giving them a designated zone in which to do it? Call it a cage if you want to make it more dramatic, but its a fence....nothing more. The DNC has a designated zone in which to have their convention too. If on the morning of the nomination they decided that they wanted to give thier speeches at Coors field or, better yet in the R'68s designated fence area they would be told "hell no you cant do that" Whats the difference?
July 29, 2008
6:55 p.m.
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GetReal writes:
Charles B-
Heh.
July 29, 2008
7:27 p.m.
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h8r writes:
Mr. Hyde-
It's not going to be just a fence, it's going to be a cage. Google DNC 2008 Free Speech Zone
http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnew...
There will be a fence around the protesters, not a fence between the protesters and the DNC.
The idea isn't to keep people safe, it's to limit speech. The Free Speech Zone is designed to limit the turnout to the DNC protests....
July 29, 2008
7:30 p.m.
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h8r writes:
"The fence around the public demonstration zone outside the Democratic National Convention will be chicken wire or chain link, authorities revealed in U.S. District Court today. "
I used to think the public demonstration zone was called "The United States," but I suppose I was mistaken. Because of 9/11 and security concerns, we can't have that kind of free expression-it's too dangerous.
July 29, 2008
7:49 p.m.
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Mr_Hyde writes:
My point is that the "cage" is being dramatized like they're being locked up (Which they aren't) The security concerns stem from much more than 9/11, but I agree that that's a big part of it. I think that the public demonstration zone is still the United States, but as in any city for any purpose you have to have permits in areas where you congregate. If you have a company picnic in the park you have to have a permit to do it in most cases in order to keep peace and order.....What I'm saying is that nobody is telling this guy or his organization that he cant protest, they are simply telling him that they have a designated spot to express his free speech
July 29, 2008
7:50 p.m.
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Gonzopozo writes:
Desperate times call for desperate measures. Both sides (the SS and the R68) will ratchet this up until it boils over. Then you all can say "I told you so".
Cancel the convention. It's an off-Broadway show anyway.
July 29, 2008
8:18 p.m.
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vudumom writes:
What would be the most fun to watch is the protesters getting rowdy, the blackhawk helicopters swoop in and drop bombs on the protesters but miss their target and hit the Pepsi Center.
Ahhh, the audacity of hope!
July 29, 2008
9:23 p.m.
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LOUIE writes:
When I think of 1968 Democratic convention, Lincoln Park, I always think of the words of Graham Nash, Chicago 7, Mayor Daley, and a nation torn by a war, assasinations, the draft, civil rights, riots, LSD, mescaline, orange sunshine, widowpane, purple barrels, black beauties, Lily F66's, I never did have any flashbacks; I know my heart couldn't begin to take it today. No way anyone can Recreate68, not in a million years.
July 29, 2008
10:56 p.m.
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Openminded1 writes:
Liberals and Conservatives, the white collar Crips & Bloods. If the people on this blog meant, I wonder how much violence there would be. Some of the remarks are pretty violent....LOL
July 30, 2008
12:06 a.m.
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Openminded1 writes:
"MET" typo
July 30, 2008
7:15 a.m.
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sheepherder writes:
Davies...I get it, a little slow on the uptake yesterday. I really think Punnisher is a R68 plant on here. All he does is spew R68 drivel in every thread. Glenn maybe?
July 30, 2008
7:47 a.m.
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LOUIE writes:
I was being raised on an strategic airbase in Alaska in 1968; few years later I was touring 17 correctional institutions in 3 states as Alaska only had one small juvenile facility, McLaughlin Youth Center. Saw so many worlds back then. Mr. Spagnoulo, you'll never recreate 68, you'd do better selling granola bars to tourists, when they come to town for the DNC, than to even come close to recreating 1968. All you'll be able to create is destruction of property, what was happening then in this nation is but vivid memory. Society moved on...
July 30, 2008
9:44 a.m.
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jay writes:
"The idea isn't to keep people safe, it's to limit speech"
this perfectly sums up the ignorance of the far right wing argument on this issue.
July 30, 2008
5:25 p.m.
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drkenne writes:
That "society moved on" is part of the reason why the US is where it is today with a criminal administration that lied about the reasons to go to war. A war that is fast approaching, if not already there, 700 billion dollars and no one really seems to care. Does moving on mean we allow a corrupt government to hijack the constitution and limit free speech. The democrats share responsibility for allowing this to happen. They need to hear it loud and clear that they MUST change direction and repair the damage this criminal administration has caused to the American people and our standing as a world leader.
The whole world is watching.