Mayor says no to Tent State overnight
By Daniel J. Chacon, Rocky Mountain News (Contact)
Published July 28, 2008 at 12:05 a.m.
Updated July 28, 2008 at noon
Photo by Brian Lehmann / The Rocky
Denver Councilwoman Carla Madison, whose district includes City Park, agrees with the mayor that overnight camping in the park is not an option. "If we say yes in City Park, I'm not sure how we could say no in Civic Center park," she says.
A college-age protest group that wants to camp overnight in City Park during the Democratic National Convention next month is going to have to find another place to sleep.
Mayor John Hickenlooper told radio host Mike Rosen, who writes a column for the Rocky, that Tent State University's plans for a sleepover for as many as 50,000 protesters are out of the question.
The mayor also told Rosen that the city might turn on the sprinklers if the protesters don't abide by Denver's 11 p.m. curfew.
Councilwoman Carla Madison, whose district includes City Park, said overnight camping is not an option.
"We want them to have a good, successful event, and we're working with them to try to see what kind of possibilities can happen," Madison said. "But I don't see camping in the park as being one of those."
Adam Jung, an organizer and spokesman for Tent State, could not be reached for comment.
Jung has said allowing camping in the park is the best way to "retain control over the entire event."
The group, which received a conditional-use permit from the city, is expected to submit by Aug. 8 a detailed plan that covers everything from security to portable toilets, said Kevin Scott, event and film liaison for the Office of Cultural Affairs.
"I think they're still sorting things out," he said. "It's a lot of work to do in a short amount of time."
Madison, who lives across the street from the park, said one of her concerns is that an influx of people will descend on Denver to participate in a big sleepover.
"We could just get a lot of people just showing up to camp," she said. "People from out of state, if they found out that we were going to open up free camping in the park, would say, 'Hey, we can actually go to the DNC and stay for free. We don't have to pay $500 a night.' "
Madison said other protest groups could make similar requests if Tent State were given permission.
"My concern is all the Re-create '68 folks who've been wanting to sleep in Civic Center Park," she said, referring to the group that promised to make the bloody 1968 Democratic convention "look like a small get-together."
"If we say yes in City Park, I'm not sure how we could say no in Civic Center Park," she said.
Madison also is worried about the precedent it could set.
"Right now, we don't even let the Boy Scouts sleep in the parks. It isn't political. It doesn't have anything to do with any message or anybody. It's just that we don't do that," she said.
"Once you let one group do it, even though (the DNC) is an extraordinary circumstance and all that, I think that it opens up the door to a lot of people just thinking that they should be able to do it, and then if we say no, they can sue us for it," Madison added.
The downside, she said, is that no one knows where the protesters will go at 11 p.m.
"Everybody is batting around ideas and trying to confirm and calling around and things like that," she said. "But there is nothing that's even close enough to a possibility that I would feel comfortable to say."
chacond@RockyMountainNews.com or 303-954-5099
July 28, 2008
3:32 a.m.
misterchinaski writes:
(This comment was removed by the site staff.)
July 28, 2008
6:07 a.m.
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Michael writes:
Good decision - and fair, based on law, logic, and reason - not emotion. Non-discriminatory as well. Now let's watch the feathers fly and see how it will be enforced. Will "Tent State" respect the rule of law, or will they ignore it under some absurd pretense of "1st Amendement" "Free Speech" rights? Let's see if David Lane gets in the act too.
July 28, 2008
7:15 a.m.
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sheepherder writes:
Do I smell tear gas?
July 28, 2008
7:23 a.m.
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Cowicide writes:
Internet tough guys commenting in here must be from the Drudge Report. You guys are so predictable and inane.
Anyway, aside from these idiots commenting here who think anyone who dissents with their government deserves to be shot, I do think it would probably be a good idea if they get hotel rooms. This isn't burning man, it's the DNC.
July 28, 2008
7:26 a.m.
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sheepherder writes:
Cow, is there a difference between free sheech and law violations? I'm all for free speech, but draw the line when it becomes a free for all. You seem a little confused my friend.
July 28, 2008
7:29 a.m.
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Radar writes:
I agree with you M.G.
July 28, 2008
7:29 a.m.
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LuvAmerica writes:
The real problem is that to stay in Denver during the dnc will cost a fortune. In other words, the political process, in all the different forms it takes, will be inaccessible to the unconnected.
July 28, 2008
7:30 a.m.
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Oh_Wise_One writes:
cowardcide- the only internet punk guy here is you. It's obvious you have never perused the Drudge Report as your ignorance is showing. If you could open your closed liberal mind, you would see that Drudge is a link site with a splash of headlines. Before Obamessiah was anointed, he was luving Hillary.
July 28, 2008
7:46 a.m.
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GladIMNotALiberal writes:
It amuses me how Cowicide writes
"Anyway, aside from these idiots commenting here who think anyone who dissents with their government deserves to be shot"
I didn't see one comment that mentioned anything about shooting anyone....in fact I didn't read one comment saying people shouldn't dissent.
It appears cowicide thinks he knows what others are thinking and then goes off according to that. Typical "i know better than you" trashy liberal.
Do me a favor...comment only on what people write...not what you believe they think. Maybe then you will at least appear informed and not appear like a mindless, repeat what you hear on airhead america, intolerant, close minded, fascist liberal.
July 28, 2008
8 a.m.
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Oh_Wise_One writes:
Frowturd69- and that makes you what? You must be on government money aka tax dollars to cruise around the RMN all day making snarky comments. All of your drivel has to be ignored by rational people.
July 28, 2008
8:07 a.m.
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WhereAreMyKeys writes:
I live 5 blocks from City Park. When I walk there with my dogs and family, I try to picture how Tent State is going to stay there after hours.
Here's what I'd do:
Get a couple of my fellow Tent Staters to roll one of the many dumpsters (already in place all around the Park) over a few centrally located sprinkler heads. Then I'd do the same with the port-a-potties that are coming onsite for the event. This simple strategy would prevent the sprinklers from popping up, and the Tent Staters stay dry. Of course it would kill all the grass, but I'm sure that's not the first thing on their minds.
It took me all of 2 minutes to come up with this plan. Think any of the 50,000 people descending on my neighborhood will think of it? And how will the Mayor's Office prevent it?
Assume for a second that no one uses my idea. How long is the City going to run the sprinklers? From 1100 to 600 every day? That obviously won't happen. They might run them for an hour or two at the most. Aren't tents designed to protect the owner from the elements? Why won't the Tent State people just go inside their tents for an hour or so, and then emerge when the sprinklers are off? This "plan" by the Mayor stinks as well, because then when they come back out to "play", they will tear up the wet grass.
And finally, how is the Mayor going to keep them out of the fountain by the high school, and out of the lakes? Wanna bet we have a break-in "incident" at the zoo as well?
WhereAreMyKeys.TypePad.com
July 28, 2008
8:12 a.m.
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neiman11 writes:
What a joke. Did the city not plan. Did the city not expect protesters as well as supporters. This is America. The right to peacefully assemble is in the constitution. Camping in the city park should be viewed within the right of free speech and freedom of assembly and not controlled by the government. Either Denver and the Obama/DNC should welcome everyone or at least lose their claim of unity or democracy. These liberal fascists are worse than anything the Bush administration has done. FISA is minor compared to outright banning demonstrations. If there are to be free speech zones, what does that make the rest of the city? Maybe we could import some security assistance from Beijing. Let's get Venezuelan Pres Chavez to show us how openness and protecting the poor should really be done. PUMA. This will not stand.
July 28, 2008
8:17 a.m.
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smith writes:
I think the mayor should turn on the sprinklers - the park looks like garbage. At my home, mayor, we sprinkle three nights a week, MWF, and due to the dry weather we've been sneaking in a fourth day on the weekend.
Just a friendly tip.
July 28, 2008
8:18 a.m.
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sheepherder writes:
Neiman, that is some seriosly twisted logic brother! Nobody is trying to stop free speech or the right to assemble. Denver is just enforcing the law of no overnight camping in the park...period.
July 28, 2008
8:19 a.m.
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neiman11 writes:
Don't worry about break ins at the zoo, the DNC is handing our free zoo passes to the homeless. They are also giving free movie passes to the homeless. Why are they sending these people to places children and families congregate? Why not just send them to the Day Care Centers. Does anyone realize many of the homeless have serious mental, alcohol, and/or drug problems. Who is screening out the pedophiles. What is this group thinking. In the interest of a clean image on television they put all of our children at risks. What kind of idiots are in charge.
July 28, 2008
8:21 a.m.
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davies writes:
Glad: The very first comment proposes to "recreate kent state", a reference to the student protesters who were shot to death at Kent State University by panicked National Guardsman in the late 60s or early 70s.
Liberal or conservative, I think most of us find that kind of thinking offensive and inane. The protesters haven't even arrived yet, let alone done anything wrong.
July 28, 2008
8:27 a.m.
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GladIMNotALiberal writes:
Davies...yeah I saw that after I posted. Darn shame that there are people out there that think that way. It's also a shame that people think (like cowicide for example) that if you lean right of center, that is how you view things. Just like people assume that if you are conservative you believe in god. Bad assumption.
July 28, 2008
8:39 a.m.
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Reason writes:
""This isn't burning man, it's the DNC."
That's true. At least one might run into a few intelligent, talented, decent peple at burning man."
Thanks for starting my morning reading with a laugh.
July 28, 2008
8:39 a.m.
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ksells writes:
I live close to City Park. The idea of having it trashed out is appalling. Do people really think that having a ton of people camping out there will not do damage that will not be repaired for at least a year? And who pays for it? The people who visit the park who will not be able to enjoy it's beauty and the taxpayers of DENVER who will have to pay to restore the park. There are places where ecological damage is not a problem (read fields). Use that area even if it isn't a feel good location. If the point is supply free places to stay then you get what you pay for. I believe the point is to make a political point at the DNC, not to have a great location to kill time and be unconcerned with the aftermath when you go home. It certainly would be counterproductive to the messages trying to be made when the citizens of Denver would be angry at you.
July 28, 2008
9:05 a.m.
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sheepherder writes:
The sprinklers will just provide fresh bong water!
July 28, 2008
9:27 a.m.
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TJH writes:
It's coming...a dope-smoking crowd of leftist human garbage for all of America to see...protesting at the convention...BWHAHAHAHA!!!!! Vote Rebublican!!!!!
July 28, 2008
9:33 a.m.
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Rod writes:
Who could possibly want to protest, and perhaps disrupt, the Democrats' convention? After all, they are the party of The People. They've got The Obama, a "Citizen Of The World" (in his own words), a man dedicated to ending the war in Iraq (but escalating the war in Afghanistan), a man who pledges to "tax the rich" and give to the poor, a seemingly holy spirit of pontificated pulchritude enveloped in a lovely blue glowing aura, a figure that transcends race, a man of such proportions as to appear almost Bunyanesque as to seemingly straddle the great oceans. . . why would anyone wish to rain on his parade?
Of course, if those who would protest wish to create a holligans' mosh pit, then it makes sense for the City of Denver turn on the sprinklers at night. It would be a nice gesture, I think, for them to provide bars of soap if they do so.
July 28, 2008
9:36 a.m.
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Andy_Eppink writes:
"'This isn't burning man, it's the DNC.' Cow"
There's a difference?
July 28, 2008
9:50 a.m.
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SPUD writes:
Why don't they invite them over to the Govenor's Mansion for a BEER BUST!!
July 28, 2008
9:52 a.m.
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carlos writes:
They're going to turn on the sprinklers? Hey! Break out the SLIP 'N SLIDES! And some soap. We'll make this a REAL party.
July 28, 2008
10:04 a.m.
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RichG writes:
They will not be able to clear out the park. Within the group may be some "undocumented" aliens, and of course it would be a hate crime by the city to kick them out.
July 28, 2008
10:06 a.m.
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jay writes:
"Good decision - and fair, based on law, logic, and reason - not emotion. "
why in the world would you think this is a "good decision", michael.
why don't you tell us where you expect up to 50k+ people to go after breaking camp at 11pm?
i personally know Carla Madison and have to say that she's not exactly the brightest person i know....or even close.
her response to the question i just asked michael was, "Everybody is batting around ideas and trying to confirm and calling around and things like that, but there is nothing that's even close enough to a possibility that I would feel comfortable to say."
thanks for the insight, carla.
i'm STILL waiting for ANYONE from the city planning committee on this issue to come forward and explain to us where they think all these folks are going to go.
there are also still a lot of myths floating around about this issue.
the taxpayers have not been tasked to pay for clean up and repairs. the city literally received tens of millions of dollars for security and clean up. why in the world would you jump to the conclusion that they'd send the bill to the taxpayers instead of the feds and the dnc?
no one can say that it will take a "year" before clean up is complete. clean up will start immediately. new sod will be laid down. new trees will be planted if necessary. i don't see these kids bringing chainsaws so i imagine the old trees will do just fine.
the lakes and fountains are going to see a lot of sunbathers and just bathers...but i can't say that i anticipate any permanent damage to those structures.
maybe this is just a ploy by hick's folks to force Tent State U to come up with some better contingency plans should things go south. maybe they want these folks to rise to the occasion and put together a more comprehensive plan for providing basic needs to tens of thousands of people.
who knows.
all that is apparent at this point is that the city is using every excuse in the book (boy scouts???) to nont do the right thing here and allow these folks to camp in the park.
just prolonging the inevitable and wasting valuable time that should be used preparing the area and compiling much needed equipment and supplies.
July 28, 2008
10:12 a.m.
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protea32 writes:
Like I said in another post, the best thing for the Denver authorities to do is...NOTHING. Don't let the protestors write your script. They will get bored and leave, and more importantly, the media will see no story, and they will leave. If the cops are going to do anything, they should take lessons from various Michigan State riots in the 1990's: send out nothing more than a handful of plainclothes officers with cameras, identify those who engage in violence and property damage from the video, arrest them at a later date, when they are sober and isolated, and can gain nothing by 'flexing' for their friends. Same tactic that works with gang members. They most likely won't smash up store fronts unless they see a cop nearby to whack them upside the head. Doesn't help the 'cause' at all just to smash things without the police playing their assigned role. Need the images of 'police brutality' to make it interesting, as well as garner sympathy. They're not interested in rioting just for the sake of rioting, they NEED the black-clad, helmeted cops. Deny them.
July 28, 2008
10:16 a.m.
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Michael writes:
"why don't you tell us where you expect up to 50k+ people to go after breaking camp at 11pm?" - jay
I don't freakin' care where they go AFTER their gathering is over and it is time to leave MY CITY PARK. Just like I do not care where 70K people go AFTER the Broncos game is over. Or after a Rockies a game is over. Or any large gathering of people. IT IS THEIR RESPONSIBILITY to find suitaable lodging or accomodations - as we all are when we travel. Geez, this ain't that hard. If I cannot afford a room or a place to stay at night when I travel - guess what??? I don't travel because that is part of the cost. Or if you want to camp, then find a local KOA campground or other acceptable and LEGAL place to camp. Why is this so hard for some people?
July 28, 2008
10:20 a.m.
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polanalytic writes:
Will the "tent city" crowd be known as the "Obamanation"? Let's hope that they don't behave "Obamanably"!
July 28, 2008
10:23 a.m.
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Fallingstar1971 writes:
Heres my prediction.
1. They will be told to leave, but they will have no where to go or will do the 1st amendment free speech thing, and in the morning, still be there.
2. The city cannot arrest them all simpy because they will have no where to put them. There jails will not be able to handle the influx of people.
3. If the nation guard is deployed to remove them, they will just put them in tents, probably right where they are until they are "processed", meaning they will still be there in the morning.
not to mention how quickly things could get out of control at that point.
This will leave two viable options.
1. Check around the local hotels. Find out the highest price and fine each of them 100 dollars higher then said price. Unpaid fines show up on credit reports. (not a big incentive, but at least its something)
2. Turn this around into something that can help the city. Think about this for a second, your going to have thousands of extra people all in the same place at the same time. Make some money for the city, deploy hot dog stands and other "county fair" like stuctures. Give the area a "facelift" so some of these people may think about comming back and spending more money. Push, Push , Push tourism people. When God gives you lemons, make lemonade. (or lemonade stands). These people are comming, harsh restrictions only make protesters protest even more (now they feel justified). I suggest you make the best of it, or at least a LOT of money from it.
Star
July 28, 2008
10:25 a.m.
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sheepherder writes:
Thanks Michael, I was wondering why people think it's the city's problem where the hippies go too.
July 28, 2008
10:31 a.m.
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Rallyracer7 writes:
What a discrace to this beautiful city. With or without Mr. Hickenlooper, who happens to be a friend, this city is going to be in some hard times with the DNC coming. This "Tent State" stuff needs to be snuffed out, and while the sprinklers are a non-violent way to clean these dirty hippies, there is no way to regulate this event unless force is used. I agree that tear gas will be an excellent choice, however those people living around the park could recieve some of that gas as well. All in all, force will be needed to move these children who have never been told "NO". Being a college age person, I cannot understand the treatment that these kids have been given by their parents. I grew up working for everything I've ever had, and the fact that these kids have never been said no to ends right here in Denver.
July 28, 2008
10:31 a.m.
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jay writes:
"I don't freakin' care where they go AFTER their gathering is over and it is time to leave MY CITY PARK. Just like I do not care where 70K people go AFTER the Broncos game is over"
lol...michael no need to go loco because you're cornered.
these folks don't have homes to go to after the game. the hotels are booked. the homeless shelters will be full per reports on the matter...
...so again...where do you people propose that these folks go?
putting your head in the sand isn't a viable answer.
July 28, 2008
10:35 a.m.
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Michael writes:
Fallingstar1971 - If they cannot afford a hotel/motel room or legal campground to begin with, what makes you think they have other $$ to spend on other tourist related stuff? Or why would we want them to come back to Denver at all if they are all vagrants and bums? Marketing our city is great, but to an audience that can afford it and we want here - not to one that we probably do not.
July 28, 2008
10:37 a.m.
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happymike44 writes:
Well if they turn on the lawn sprinklers the kids will have showers and fresh water to drink the next day.
Plus these kids are trying to have their own summer of free love.
guess what mom I went to the protest.
Can you guess who is going to be a grandma will be a phrase soon to be heard throughout the land.So why bother these nice ids I mean all they want to do is save the earth and hug a few trees,how much harm will that cause.
Peace and Love will be at the protest site along with some real cool maui waui dude.
Have people forgotten how when you were young you thought you could chang the world.
July 28, 2008
10:45 a.m.
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jay writes:
"If they cannot afford a hotel/motel room or legal campground to begin with, what makes you think they have other $$ to spend on other tourist related stuff? "
that's just the point, michael...we don't have available hotel rooms for 50k+ people...so your point is ridiculous.
again...where do you think these people should go every night when they break camp at 11pm?
July 28, 2008
11:06 a.m.
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smith writes:
>>again...where do you think these people should go every night when they break camp at 11pm?
East Colfax. The one's who can afford the hourly motels can come in. The rest will get to sleep with the average commonfolk they passionately identify with
July 28, 2008
11:14 a.m.
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warrengfunk7 writes:
These protectors can actually ride the light rail down to the end of the Southwest light rail line and be within walking distance of Chatfield State Park camping sites. They can also ride the Southeast Light rail line to 9 Mile station on I-225 and be within walking distance of Cherry Creek reservoir camping sites. If they bring their bikes, they can use Denver's extensive bike path system to get to many, many more camp sites.
Denver is probably one of the best camping cities in the nation. If they want to camp, they can get to camping sites. Civic Center Park is not a camping site; unless your homeless and have no where else to go.
July 28, 2008
11:15 a.m.
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TJH writes:
What will be fun is all the human feces and urine that will be excreted around the convention area. Do you think any of them will wait for a port-a-potty? Not to mention, the same items will be collected in plastic bags to be thrown at any unlucky police officers who anger the protesters.
July 28, 2008
11:20 a.m.
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Fallingstar1971 writes:
Someone here said ..
"Or why would we want them to come back to Denver at all if they are all vagrants and bums"
So now students with enough money to be able to fly all the way out to Denver are all "vagerants and bums"?
Sounds a LOT like "We dont serve your kind around here."
Well people, one of those vagerant/bum protesters could get elected president, I would think you would want at least HIM/HER to come back, would you not?
And whose to say that one of them wont be elected someday.
Most of these people are students. STUDENTS PEOPLE. If you tell a child not to do something because YOU CANT HANDLE IT, what do you think that child will do?
Someone here said "these kids have never been told "no"."
If thats true then they should have plenty of money (see my first post)
Turn this into something positive before its too late. If you cant handle a peaceful protest, you sure wont be able to handle a violent one. Think about this long and hard before commiting yourselves to a regretable course of action. THINK. WHAT IF YOUR CHILD WAS DOWN THERE AS WELL?
Star
July 28, 2008
11:24 a.m.
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warrengfunk7 writes:
Also, what about allowing camping along the River North area of downtown? Tell them, as an organization (Camp State University), they would be fined appropriately for any trash and vandalism at the campsite.
The River North area along side the parking lots for Coors Field would be OK for this group. Especially considering that the Colorado Rockies will be out of town,
July 28, 2008
11:24 a.m.
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arvada_mark writes:
I know what to do with the hippies, or I mean protesters at 11pm, put your boot up their #@$'s, kick them out of the park, & tell them you'll see them again in the morning, when hippie activity, or I mean protester activity is allowed. And I agree with everybody that the sprinklers won't deter much, but fire hoses sure will.
July 28, 2008
11:26 a.m.
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Rallyracer7 writes:
Star, my child wouldn't be down there because I would have raised them to respect the laws and the rules already set in place... Thus, these "kids" need to know how to respect the word "NO". It is simple, as the article states, the group has already been told they cannot camp there. If the are going to break the law, they deserve to be punished.
July 28, 2008
11:27 a.m.
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mjeffrie writes:
It never ceases to amaze me. When the Republican Party holds a convention, spoiled-left-wing brats from the 1960's threaten to cause upheaval and rioting; When the Democrat Party holds a convention, spoiled-left-wing brats from the 1960's threaten to cause upheaval and rioting.
July 28, 2008
11:35 a.m.
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arvada_mark writes:
One more thing, who honestly camps in Denver? That's what we have the mountains for. Camping in Denver? Good lord. It's very difficult to listen to or even respect the opinion of people who don't have enough common sense to come in out of the "sprinklers" so to say. Who wants to set up camp on grounds where dogs (& people for that matter) regularly do their business anyway?
Camping in Denver? Please...
July 28, 2008
11:37 a.m.
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knr writes:
The water City Park irrigates with is non- potable. That water is greywater mixed with a Superfund site groundwater. I would think that good "green" liberal protestors would not even consider stepping foot on such "contaminated" land let alone laying down and camping on it.
July 28, 2008
11:41 a.m.
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fluxtube writes:
Those who wanted to have the convention here could allow them to use their private property. Why haven't those folks stepped up yet and offered to help them out?
July 28, 2008
11:51 a.m.
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adamrussell writes:
Is it legal to spray someone with water to intimidate them? Would it be legal for me to do it to the mayor?
July 28, 2008
11:54 a.m.
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redwhiteandBLUE writes:
I would think, these hippie's, I mean protesters(funny..Arvada_Mark)
are already coming with their mind set, kinda rebellious and they're going to camp out anywhere, and don't care about sprinklers. This is going to be really, really interesting.
These posts are hilarious!!
July 28, 2008
12:07 p.m.
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Antione101 writes:
Wow,
I'm so glad this isn't in NYC. Last thing we need are another 50,000 liberal freaks. Good Luck to Denver. Now you'll see what liberals are really made of. Ohh and to Arvada_Mark, screw the fire hoses, break out the M-16's, let the paramedics move them.
July 28, 2008
12:23 p.m.
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rbonilla writes:
get a room and pay denver the bed tax....
July 28, 2008
12:33 p.m.
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glowrock writes:
What in the he*l is going on with all of you? Break out the M-16s? Let the paramedics move them? They're all vagrants, why do we want them here? Hippies? What liberals are really made of?
Can I ask you mindless drones a simple question? Why in the heck are you all assuming that this will be a riot situation? Why do you seem to take JOY in the fact that you think it will be a riot situation? Are you that cold-hearted, that cynical, that full of hate that you want to see riots and paramedics all across town?
Don't you think for a minute that protests might just be PEACEFUL? You know, the way most protests are? Sure, there are going to be a few idiots trying to start the insanity, but I'm pretty freaking sure the security in place will take care of those bad apples before they have a chance to infect everyone else with their actions.
Give me a freaking break! Taking joy in anticipation of riots is simply disgusting. Period.
July 28, 2008
12:33 p.m.
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aosb writes:
Would someone please tell me what it is exactly that they are protesting? Presumably they are all on the left assuming the comment about them being college kids is correct.
The DNC is four square against the war. Are the protesters MORE against the war?
Or are they just hoping to incite some sort of violent response to their actions in order to gain noteriety on youtube? Are they bored? If they were to show up for the RNC in MN, well, that would seem to make more sense.
Just wondering.
July 28, 2008
12:44 p.m.
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WhadUsay writes:
It's simple - no camping in the park period end of story. Not for you, not for me, not for anybody. The tent state organizers didn't think anybody would notice or mind?? They didn't plan ahead, they didn't think. They think this is some sort of 1968 love fest? Wake up - this is not a first amendment issue or a freedom of assembly issue - it's a city ordinance that they DO NOT bend for anybody nor do they have to. Not the boy scouts, not the transients not the protestors.
I'm getting a little tired of all these comments about free speech and freedom of assembly. Your rights are NOT allowed to infringe on my rights sorry! Assemble and protest but if you break the law, get rude, get physical, interfere with other people you have stepped beyond free speech and free assembly and you will be held accountable.
Have a nice day.
July 28, 2008
12:48 p.m.
Suggest removal
COLibertarian writes:
What part of "NO" is not understood here? The group has been told no to overnight camping from the get-go. They did not like the city govt answer, so they tried to appeal to the "public". The answer from city govt is STILL NO. Plenty of time to make a change of plans. Not like they are being told No the day they arrive and have no other place to go. They are still hoping to get people like Jay and others to get the ruling overturned. Jay's theory is that it will be a horrible mess and we (city of Denver) need to fix it. He does not want the mess spilling into his yard and street. Don't blame him there. Think that is the plan for Tent State also. If they push hard enough, the city will cave-in. Well then they need to cave-in to R68 and any other group that wants to set up tent cities for this event or any other event in the future.
July 28, 2008
12:48 p.m.
Suggest removal
incite_a_riot writes:
Burn the city down.
*chaos in the streets*
July 28, 2008
1:06 p.m.
Suggest removal
protea32 writes:
Can I ask you mindless drones a simple question? Why in the heck are you all assuming that this will be a riot situation? Why do you seem to take JOY in the fact that you think it will be a riot situation? Are you that cold-hearted, that cynical, that full of hate that you want to see riots and paramedics all across town?
The fact that a group called 'Recreate '68' is involved may make some people, mainly those of us who were around then, believe that they are 'spoiling for a fight' (A fight they'll be denied, if the authorities are smart.) It is possible that they are either Detroit Tiger fans, or Nixon supporters, in which case alot of people will look foolish, since the Tigers aren't going anywhere, and Nixon's still dead. When someone says they are going to the D.N.C. to 'recreate '68', what are they planning to recreate? 1968 gas prices? I'm for that. Get 'Laugh-In' back on the air? I'm cool with that too.
July 28, 2008
1:08 p.m.
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DAG writes:
DO THESE PEOPLE NOT WORK? BUY A HOTEL ROOM LIKE ANYONE ELSE, IF YOU CAN'T AFFORD IT WHY TAKE A VACATION? THEY NEED TO GET PRIORITIES IN LINE LIKE GETTING A JOB.
July 28, 2008
1:21 p.m.
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Rallyracer7 writes:
Silly liberals, Paychecks are for Workers.
July 28, 2008
1:25 p.m.
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reor2 writes:
Why don't they just bus them to Boulder for the night. That is where most of them live anyway.
July 28, 2008
1:26 p.m.
Suggest removal
fluxtube writes:
Have we forgotten why we wanted the convention . Money . That is why we wanted the convention .
Now we will treat our guest like tramps invading the city . What a bunch of losers .
Don't be a NIMBY art... Just offer to rent out your home/back yard since it's about money. You shouldn't treat them like tramps, invite them into your home like a family member from out of town.
July 28, 2008
1:27 p.m.
Suggest removal
eyes_of_the_world writes:
What if all the Tent State protesters pitched their tents on a large piece of property that was OKed by its owners, took the time to cover all their own sanitation, security and first aid needs, arranged for transportation to their chosen peacefull protest/march route, had their message covered, in depth, by the national media, had their message presented to the masses via tube and internet and went home without incident after the convention? Wouldn't this be what is best for Tent State, their message is successfully sent, the park, that we as tax payers all own together and want undamaged, for the cops, that we as tax payers all pay for together and want unruffled, for homeowners in the park area that are nervous and for the Democratic party who's leaders would like to avoid the embarasment their constituancy being percieved as violent law breakers?
If you feel strongly about politics thats fine, just treat us, and our city' with respect, as we respect your political ideas. Please.
July 28, 2008
1:29 p.m.
Suggest removal
FlyfishDude52 writes:
Responses to a few previous bloggers:
1 - Combined Chatfield & Cherry Creek State parks can accommodate about 2000 total campers. Most sites allow a maximum of 6. Some of these sites are already reserved fot the convention days. So something less than 2000 campers.
2 - There are no available motel/hotel rooms for the convention time.
3 - Where are all these cars going to park? I don't know about you but it's hard for one person to find a parking space around City Park & nearly all of those spaces are 2 hours maximum. Believe me the parking nazi's are all over this, it's huge revenue for the city. What about the spaces that are the once-a-month street sweeping day? More parking violations = more revenue.
Anyway, the logistics of having, lets be conservative and guess the head count at 25,000, that many people converge on the CIty Park area just doesn't out.
No parking, sanitation facilities (by the demonstrators) will probably be insufficient in quantity, after curfew where do they go, with that many people, crowd control will be required & who's going to do that, etc. etc,
The list goes on & on. Things may or may not turn violent (I sincerely hope not). I'm somewhat uncertain what all the protests are about other than, "We don't like things the way they are & we want it changed!" This is sommething I can agree with, but demonstration is probably not the most effective way of accomplishing that change, seeing as how nobody seems to have a plan.
July 28, 2008
1:36 p.m.
Suggest removal
Biff writes:
hey protea32...and what makes you think that a group of 50,000 protestors is not a formula for riots? Your the fricken drone buddy. What kind of contribution will these people have for the DNC and Denver? Come to think of it, what kind of contribution do these people have towards our society? Do they work? Do they pay taxes? Do they own homes? Do they have families to support? Do they donate money to their favorite charities? Hell no they don't! You think Minneapolis-St. Paul are having these kinds of problems with the GOP?
July 28, 2008
1:45 p.m.
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Rallyracer7 writes:
NOBAMA 08, he is blowing smoke up your A$$. He has no plan to create a better country, he just knows how to make you think he is right.... Kinda like mind control for liberals. YOUR CANDIDATE WILL RUIN THIS COUNTRY!!!!!! BTW, i'm independent, and will not vote for either of the major candidates.
July 28, 2008
1:48 p.m.
Suggest removal
Diff writes:
Proteseters or not, Democratic convention or none, free speech not an issue connected to this; I must agree with the the mayor, camping in city parks is against the law and is stupid to even think that it should be allowed - they want to come. protest, participate or just hang out for the event - let them get hotels and transportation the same as anyone else - the City, State nor the DNC owe them nothing.
Now allowing protesters public access without being caged like animals - some outrageous distance away from the cameras, media delegates and candidates etc - that is a another mater all together - for another day and or another story
July 28, 2008
1:48 p.m.
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Michael writes:
Would someone please tell me what it is exactly that they are protesting? - aosb
This is what these people do for recreation. Like most of us go camping (where it is allowed and legal), go skiing, go hunting, go golfing, go scuba diving, or whatever. These left-wing radicals protest stuff - any stuff but mostly anyone who does not agree with how they think the world should be. They love to march, chant, beat drums, yell, dress in crappy clothes, not take showers, and in general make nuisances of themselves. The worst of them like to smash storefront windows, destroy public/private property, disrupt traffic, cause mayhem, and in some cases cause bodily injury to those that try to enforce laws and do not agree with them. This what THEY DO.
July 28, 2008
1:51 p.m.
Suggest removal
jay writes:
michael, right after you tell us where you expect them to go after breaking camp at 11 pm.
July 28, 2008
1:57 p.m.
Suggest removal
Rallyracer7 writes:
Yeah milehi, we are all racist because we don't want our park and city distroyed by unruly protestors. Haven't you been reading, most, if not all rooms, Hotels/motels alike are booked.
July 28, 2008
1:58 p.m.
Suggest removal
isthatright writes:
Hey Jay, why don't they go home? That's what I would do after an event.
July 28, 2008
2:03 p.m.
Suggest removal
arvada_mark writes:
The liberals are losing this argument, BTW.
July 28, 2008
2:04 p.m.
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Elwood writes:
I say turn them loose in Invesco Field. That way the DNC Comittee will make sure the mess is cleaned before the end of the convention.
July 28, 2008
2:10 p.m.
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COLibertarian writes:
and what about logistics here?
City park = Approx 314 acres
Subtract from that:
Lakes and islands
museum/parking lots
zoo
golf course
misc obstacles
That leaves around 100 acres + or minus. More on the minus.
Conservative view of 40k+ people in park
Very very small 2-man tent 4x8 with inch or 2 for stakes and 2ft easement in front of tent = 29+ acres. This is assuming OPTIMAL location of tents. Never get that in best of situations. Add to that the extra 10K that people are talking about and you are looking at an absolute minimum of 45 acres.......just to sleep. More like 50-70 acres for tents. That leave 30 - 50 acres for festivities, meetings, speeches, porta potties, Dumpsters and other living needs.
Porta potties. Recomendations I have seen are approx 42 PPs per 6k people for 10 hrs before needed servicing.
43K people = 588 PPs. Using conservative numbers for growth that number easily reaches 650+. This would include maint. every 24 hrs for entirety. If all were lined up in one spot that would take up over an acre, not including wash stations. In reality it would most likely take up to 2-5+ acres of space. Lines ya know.
Eating venues? Not knowing where to even start. Significant percentage of people will have minimal "camping" experience. How prepared will they be for providing food and water needs? Or was this promised to them?
Garbage Disposal. Yea right!
Lookie Lous?
I am forgetting many areas of impact here, but bottom line is there is not enough room to sustain 50K + people for 3-4 days and nights.
Talk to the Morrison town people and see what mass "camping" does for their neighborhood before, during and after a Phish concert.
Talk to the SF city management and see how their "tent cities" faired in the Tenderloin. If you could walk the Gauntlet there without heaving you had an "iron stomach"
To let Tent State in you have to let R68 into Civic Park. The Anarchy crowd can assemble and camp at another park.......and on down the line. Let 1 and you let all.
I am NOT advocating violence nor hope for negative impacts for this event. It will affect all of us. But to think that logistically this can begin to be successful, is HOPE at its best and Reality at its worst.
July 28, 2008
2:14 p.m.
Suggest removal
jay writes:
fair enough, colib...although your thought that 2/3rds of the park isn't "park" is kind of laughable.
so where do you propose these folks go after breaking camp at 11 pm?
July 28, 2008
2:16 p.m.
Suggest removal
Imsalty writes:
Lets see. 50 thousand people. If you divide that by 1 porta potty for every 100 people, thats 500 portapottys. Each porta potty has a footprint of about 5 feet square. Line up 60 and you have a football field size row. take it across the field and you have room for 40 more. Tent city? How about shit city? There isn't an infrastructure capable of supporting this 4 day invasion...
July 28, 2008
2:24 p.m.
Suggest removal
101st_soldier writes:
Serving in Iraq, I find it a sorry situation that people would be denied an chance to express their dissatisfaction with any political gathering.
The city knew that there would not be enough hotels or campgrounds to support the convention. The city should make available the appropriate areas and transportation to allow as full acess as possible for ALL people to gather. Resorting to such games as "sprinkler warfare" is not a solution, just ignites fervor amoung the people (as demonstrated by the comments here).
If they leave the park, then, they will gather in the streets, on the sidewalks, etc...
Students come in all ages... not just youth.
Allow honest protest, Allow honest support, Befriend all, For someday they might be the ones you look too for help.
God Bless America, and the values she stands for!
Liberty is a precious commodity, lets keep ours!
Just a soldier's comments - hoo-rah!
July 28, 2008
2:39 p.m.
Suggest removal
Rallyracer7 writes:
Yep milehi, if a brick is thrown at my car, you can bet the violence will start. One, because what kind of stupid person throws a brick at a car, and two, that person will for sure not be protesting the next few days due to a couple of factors including a brick to the head... As well, as soon as the Fibs get into town, i'm out, taking a nice ol' PTO. As far as the park goes, I live in Evergreen, so the stench of 50,000 dirty hippy children will be far away from me. I just feel sorry for the people that have to deal with this virus that is approaching us all.
July 28, 2008
2:40 p.m.
Suggest removal
arvada_mark writes:
I suppose that with all of these toilets, the city could build a wall around Hippieville, I mean Protest Park, I mean the Venting Vault, I mean the Liberal Lobby, I mean the B!tch!ng Bench. Actually, I mean the park where our kids play. At least it'd keep 'em all in one place. Two days of that (with no city sanitation help) would probalby make most of them go home early anyway. It would truly be a sh!! house.
July 28, 2008
2:41 p.m.
Suggest removal
eyes_of_the_world writes:
Why not have them camp on Invesco field and then the DNC can cover all the expense and be sure of a full house for the big speach. all the infrastructure is already in place. Nutrition, sanitation, first aid, security. They can even lock the place up so nothing turns up missing while they are gone for their march.
DNC- these are your people, you should provide for them.
But something tells me that if this idea came across Barack Obamas desk he would say "no way".
Why?
July 28, 2008
2:42 p.m.
Suggest removal
Irondog writes:
Is this tax-free water?
July 28, 2008
2:49 p.m.
Suggest removal
rickystl writes:
Oh boy!! All the far left fringe should be there: ReCreate-68', Code Pink, Acorn, etc. Give um h..... guys and girls.
Unlike 1968, with the alternative media, we'll be able to film all the green mohawks, hate Bush, hate America, crowds all together. And, the average American will be able to view all the hate from the comfort of their living room. This will be better than any movie. I'll have the popcorn ready. The supporters the DNC does NOT want America to see.
July 28, 2008
2:50 p.m.
Suggest removal
COLibertarian writes:
jay. They have time now to plan alternative options. Where they go after the festivities is up to the organizers. They need to make plans for their event. Event planning. The city said no multiple times. Make other plans. It is pretty simple. If I am told that there are no accomodations at a specific location, then I must make alternative plans. Do you do the same jay or do you hope for devine intervention?
I DO understand your concern. If there is no planning (to be done by event planners and approved or denied by the city) then they are not going be prepared and drinking water out of your garden hose. The PLANNERS have the responsibility and should have the accountability for that planning. Project Management and Event planning 101.
July 28, 2008
3 p.m.
Suggest removal
FlyfishDude52 writes:
How about 42 ft./sq. per camper [this assumes actual tent (small back-packing type) + support ropes] x 50,000 = 2,100,000 ft./sq. / 43,560 (# of ft. in acre) = 48.2 acres.
Now this doesn't allow for pathways between tents where support ropes are. It also assumes PERFECT placement of tents. This could never happen, with typical civilians, in a million years.
Port-a-potties support about 125 uses before they get gross.
Assume 5 daytime uses per person per day. 50,000/5 = 10,000 uses per day 125 = 80 port-a-lets, cleaned every day x 4 = big $
Who foots the bill? I think Hick is waiting to hear of the logistics plan that the tent state folks need to present prior to obtaining day use only of the park. This plan needs to include repairs for all damages.
July 28, 2008
3:02 p.m.
Suggest removal
Biff writes:
Hello 101stsoldier....first and foremost...I appreciate your service to our wonderfull Country. I think the City of Denver knew what they were getting into. I work, pay taxes, give to charity and support the City of Denver and the United States. I live 4 blocks from City Park. I DON'T want these wacko people.....50,000 of them...or even 10,000 of them, trolling around my neighborhood for a week! I don't really think they have any intentions of making the United States a better place to live. For the most part....I believe they are all just board and have nothing better to do....(during summer break for all the college kids). It's really a pretty pathetic existance if you ask me...
July 28, 2008
3:10 p.m.
Suggest removal
COLibertarian writes:
jay then correct me on the numbers. You tried to correct me on mapquest before and we know how that fared for you! Lets recap
Golf facilities (building, range, course) take up approx 1/3 of the park. But lets be conservative here and say 90 acres......
Zoo takes up 80 acres but need to add parking to that figure so higher.
The lakes take up more than 30 when including islands, wetlands not included in surface water, which would be difficult to inhabit for this event.
Museum and facilities take up more than 10 acres I am told.
Buildings, parking lots, roads, and other obstacles and obstructions are not defined but from general view add to the over all acreage lost to total usage for this event. These items quickly add up and have to be accounted for space already used for other things than festivities, eating and camping.
90acres + 80(+) acres + 30(+) acres + 10acres + other obstructions take the total number of acres to 210 acres not including misc buildings and maint areas.........210+++++ subtracted from 314 = 204 which roughly represents 2/3 of City Park in Denver. If someone has better numbers, I would welcome those as we do not want Jay upset over the numbers..... He would rather consider things laughable rather than discuss the numbers and supply information from his research.
JAY which parts are laughable and why? I would greatly appreciate your input into these figures also. Are you that afraid of dialogue and discussion that you revert to smack talk? Have we not discussed the fact that smack talk is pretty lame online. Lets smack talk on the court, field etc.....where it means something......
July 28, 2008
3:16 p.m.
Suggest removal
COLibertarian writes:
Fly fish Dude. The SMALLEST 2-man tent was 4x8 which barellly fit 2 people. Used it as I did not want to be construed as exagerating.......
btw. where do you go to "rip lips"
July 28, 2008
3:19 p.m.
Suggest removal
dilligaf writes:
Wow what is this the USSR? If you protest against our government you are a low down dirty commie. I suppose you all think that tank should have ran that protester over in China. Gee we all know what a honest and good job our government is doing.
Some of you scare me. Every man, woman, and child should be standing up to these crooks. Our fore fathers are rolling in their graves seeing what they are doing to us today. I sit back stick our tails between our legs and ask for more.
Now I'm probably in trouble because as I type their spying on my e-mail.
TELL BUSH I SAID HI!!!!!
July 28, 2008
3:26 p.m.
Suggest removal
Rallyracer7 writes:
milehi, yep, i'm speeding away.... Because running is always the right thing to do....hmmmmm..... As for a brick being thrown at my car, I don't know about you, but I have put hours upon hours upon hours into my car, so it is a living object to me. If that sounds stupid, what do you enjoy? What do you spend hours and days of your life doing? I am not about to let some college kid, being one myself, make a mess of something I have spent so much time on. As for the throwing a brick back, it wouldn't be thrown, it would be in my hand. You are right, it would incite violence, but I have every right to defend myself and my property in self defense, and thus, I would be in my rights to protect it by force. As for the hippie kids, maybe you believe the movement is over, but being in college myself, it is easy to see that the movement is alive and well in many of these kids. Many of them have never known the word "NO", because they grew up with boomers that were themselves hippies or hippy children. This country does not allow people to disrupt others lives. I have no problem with them protesting their own parties convention, but when I am paying taxes for land that they destroy, I am going to be angry.
July 28, 2008
3:28 p.m.
Suggest removal
FlyfishDude52 writes:
I think the reptiles get away lots cause of #20 & smaller, but that's OK. I try not to "rip lips." The answer to your ? CO, NM, UT, WY, SD, MN, AK, MT, FL & the caymans. I've has as many as 5 different licenses in one season. Lucky me!
& yes, I realize yuo were being conservative with tent size but 32 sq ft per 2 people doesn't account for supports & pathways. I know I'm being kind of nit-picky, but more reality that not gives us a better picture.
July 28, 2008
3:34 p.m.
Suggest removal
irishrock1962 writes:
50,000 liberal protesters in one place ? man,thats alot of nose rings.
July 28, 2008
3:43 p.m.
Suggest removal
sheepherder writes:
dilligaf...once again, it's not about protesting..it's about breaking the law! People can protest all they want, they just can't break the law in the process!
July 28, 2008
3:45 p.m.
Suggest removal
Diff writes:
artstarzz - Wonder if you would say the same if you lived next to or within a few blocks of City Park - or hey better yet - open up YOUR back yard to say 10 or so of em.
The Race you are talking about is not "street racing" it is an city event - like the taste of colorado or the Cherry creek art festival with limited and controlled boundries and in the event of the Denver Grand Prix - controlled access - not even compareable to open house camping in any city park - GET a Clue!
July 28, 2008
3:46 p.m.
Suggest removal
Rallyracer7 writes:
As well, people saying that they should be allowed to camp there...... It has already been decided they can't, so stop your whining and move on.
July 28, 2008
3:50 p.m.
Suggest removal
jay writes:
colib, i'm not sure where your mapquest conspiracy theory comes from....you'll have to refresh my memory.
otherwise, you still haven't answered the question.
where do you think these kids should go when they break camp at 11 pm?
as far as opinions on "numbers"...the golf course isn't part of the park....so your numbers are incorrect from the get go.
clear enough?
July 28, 2008
3:57 p.m.
Suggest removal
Sluggo writes:
This is gonna be an exercise in the intolerable ignorance of liberals and in the pure tolerance of the city police to handle what will undoubtedly be an unruly and violent mob of hooligans showing up in the same place at the same time in order to vent the plethora of typical and boring demands we hear all the time as well as to just get stupid and break things that don't belong to them. I could be wrong, but I doubt it. Here's my prediction for how well this will go:
-protesters will say absolutely nothing new
-will get emotional because no one is listening
-will damage property and make huge rectums out of themselves
-will wonder anew why no one wants to have them in their town
Any political philosophy that's based on pure emotion and zero logic can never lead to anything constructive. I hope it turns out to be a peaceful and effective demonstration but based on past performances I'd expect it to turn into a circus.
July 28, 2008
3:59 p.m.
Suggest removal
COLibertarian writes:
Fly fish dude.....just a non pc figure of speech....met no disrespect.....as I flyfish also. Grew up in the Bozeman area........and lived near the south platte near deckers until gas and road weary crept in.........
July 28, 2008
4:02 p.m.
Suggest removal
Ricardo writes:
The perfect solution for Tent State University!
Open up the Denver Stock Yards for them. Place tarps over the pens. Sanitation will not be a problem for this bunch. They won't mind the smell. Bathing won't be a problem! Lots of fresh water!
The mayor can give them a list of where the best epicurean dumpsters are located, even a list of tips on dumpster diving techinques. This will take care of feeding them.
Problem solved!
July 28, 2008
4:18 p.m.
Suggest removal
COLibertarian writes:
Jay please show me where City Park golf course is not part of the City Park numbers. I was told that the 314 acres included the golf course.
So I guess the question is whether the 314 acres includes golf course or if it does not. We can include that into the figures after the fact.
Mapquest was when I gave you general idea of where I was located. You stated that mapquest said I was over 10 miles from Quebec to downtown. I set you straight with your Mapquest calculations.....
I DID answer your question. Please read my previous post. They HAVE Weeeeeks to make alternative plans. To not make those plans is not an option. Period end of story. If you were told your accomodations were changed or cancelled, would you show up and demand that they not be changed or cancelled? No you would make other arrangements. You are making this political based upon your party affiliation. They HAVE EVERY right to attend and participate in the process. I stand up and cheer for that right. But when their EVENT PLANNER has his ideas changed because he did NOT LISTEN to what the city organizers told him a long time ago and continues with the plan that is NOT valid anymore and that plan needs to be made to accomodate those changes.
If they were attending tomorrow and those plans were changed to not allow camping today, then I too would be supporting the fact that they need to stay at the park.........BUT when you are given months to change those plans for that event, there are no excuses not to make arrangements. That is Openly violating the laws set forth, explained and re-explained to the planners of this event. Openly defy them then. Let the chips fall where they may.
July 28, 2008
4:27 p.m.
Suggest removal
krvus writes:
Colib-
you make great points about the size and how it may affect the park. I agree with you 100%. The size and the fact that they have been told no is enough for me.
But I'll ask cause I know jay is already typing- "But where will they go after 11:00?"
Jay- WHO CARES WHERE THEY GO! They are adult enough to find a place and it's not our responsibility to find them a place, OK? The city has said no and that's it. Heck, it's the Democrat Mayor who told the Democrat protestors that the word was no. Keep up the infighting- your party looks like a bunch of idiots. Side not here: This is coming from a non declared who cannot stand either side anymore!!!!
July 28, 2008
4:30 p.m.
Suggest removal
jay writes:
"Jay please show me where City Park golf course is not part of the City Park numbers"
the campers aren't going to be allowed to camp in the golf course, colib....thus it isn't included in the park numbers.
"Mapquest was when I gave you general idea of where I was located. You stated that mapquest said I was over 10 miles from Quebec to downtown."
no clue what you're talking about here colib. you said at one point that you were "right downtown"...but when we dialed you in you were nearly in aurora on the other side of quebec street...which is...you guessed it...10 miles from downtown.
"I DID answer your question."
no you didn't...unless i missed you saying where you think they should go after they break camp at 11pm...if so...please repost it....otherwise please answer the question.
July 28, 2008
4:40 p.m.
Suggest removal
COLibertarian writes:
krvus. Thanks.
jay is probably typing away or submitting now. The point I am making is that the Event planner has or had time to change the event planning and accomodate the need for 50K people. Instead of Risk management planning, contigency planning, etc., he has chosen confrontation and civil disobedience. HIS Choice I would have worked with city, federal, and private sources to find an alternative to civil disobedience. Find a new location for staging. If the city, federal, DNC, or private entities wanted or needed them here, they would gladly provide alternatives. I am betting that there are many that would gladly let them camp in their yards to help out for the cause. IT IS important to have a voice. But lets look at practicality and how this can be done successfully.
Hell lets not worry about whether the 90 acres of golf course is or is not included into the figures. Lets use more realistic figures than what I put together and put them into the formula. IT STILL shows that the viability of City Park is not feasable. jay wants to invalidate based upon 1 contentious area.....the golf course......... Jay put your numbers forth and lets look at what you see as feasable........ Love to see sales reps glorified or certified put together detailed project plans.....
Now lets look at R68 and their demands of staying in the Park system. What of the others that are not even close to the 50K + Tent State crowd.
July 28, 2008
4:48 p.m.
Suggest removal
YourNeilness writes:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_Par...
According to wikipedia, City Park is 330 acres and includes the zoo, museum, lakes, etc., but does not include the golf course.
July 28, 2008
4:49 p.m.
Suggest removal
COLibertarian writes:
jay the question is whether city golf course is included in with the 300+ acres listed. When showing city park it always includes the golf course................ IS city golf course included in the acreage defined or not?
Where will they go after 11pm? When? What date or dates will this happen? You are making it sound as of 11pm tonight or tomorrow. I say they go to whereever they have made plans to go for the evening. Easy enough. Plan to find a place to stay BEFORE YOU GET HERE. They have had months to do this!!!!
July 28, 2008
4:53 p.m.
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jay writes:
why in the world would we include land not in the actual park in which the campers will be camping, colib? i'm not sure why you want to include a golf course NEXT to the park in which the kids will be collecting. can you tell me why?
that said, i have no idea why you're still running from a very simple question.
where do you think they should go at 11pm every night?
July 28, 2008
4:54 p.m.
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mostcurious writes:
It's Part II of "Attack of the Obamanoids - Sleepover of the Obamanoids!" Honestly, for people clamoring for change, it sure seems like you do the same things over and over and over again...
July 28, 2008
4:58 p.m.
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DrudgeVisitor writes:
Wow... I can feel the love and peace in here...
101st said "The city knew that there would not be enough hotels or campgrounds to support the convention. The city should make available the appropriate areas and transportation to allow as full acess as possible for ALL people to gather. Students come in all ages... not just youth. Allow honest protest, Allow honest support, Befriend all, For someday they might be the ones you look too for help."
Probably the smartest and most appropriate comment in this thread.
The problem is that the 50,000 protestors are made up of a wide gamut of people... everyone from young skulls full of mush (stolen phrase) who believe they trying to make a difference to hardcore activists whose agendas are as righteous to them as any born-again Christian's faith. Unfortunately, the overall stereotype I have of this group is that it is made up of people who don't respect other people's rights, property or opinions... hence their method of choice in getting their message heard.
The dangerous element of this crowd are the hardcore activists. Their righteous agenda gives them license to do whatever it takes... damn everyone else including the young skulls full of mush who came to help them. They may be a minority, but the crowd and situation can give them great power to do harm.
Groups who come to Denver to respectfully and responsibly protest would have no problem in arranging a temporary campground and transportation to support their cause. They have had plenty of time to do this.
This flap over the park just shows their disrespect.
Oh, and Jay... chances are that most good protestors will be asleep by 11pm since they have a big day tomorrow. The ones left up at 11pm came for the party.
July 28, 2008
5:03 p.m.
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redwhiteandBLUE writes:
All of you are right..this will not be a peaceful protest..sorry to say.
Protesters are people that have a mind set..that have an agenda..
and they want their voices heard. Every group.. Anti-war, Native
American Indians, The Escuela Tlatelolco school and their Human
Rights people are not peaceful. The out of towners that don't care
about Denver will not respect our city, parks or motels. Watch the
mess. I'm not trying to be negative..but we've seen this before,
now there will be additional people.
July 28, 2008
5:04 p.m.
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COLibertarian writes:
Thanks YourNeilness.
Wiki also states 314 acres and city maps show that Golf course is included.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denver,_...
City sites say around 314 acres......not sure if anyone has it right. But truly thanks. With that over half and that is conservative because previous counts identified maint., other buildings, monuments and other misc obstructions, but did not quantify those areas as it would be too contentious and was not wanting to get into a war of numbers but a discussion.
Still a tight fit with conservative numbers for that amount of time.
It seems that R68 and other protest groups wanted to "camp" at parks within city but were told no. They are making alternative plans. I dont see why the event planner from Tent State could not communicate with other groups to identify alternatives.
and Jay if you really really want me to say they should stay at City Park..........wellllll Heck golly jeee lets just get rid of that pesky law stating that after 11pm no one is allowed in the park. It obviously is antiquated and does not fit the freedoms we should enjoy in this fine city. If they feel that the law is wrong, then let them put up their tents. Lets do it. If we say they can stay then they and everyone else gets to stay. Everyone.
Also Jay you seem to feel that if we allow them to stay in the park that they will STAY in the park........wrong they still will be drinking and bathing from your garden hose. Dont trip over them when you go for a morning jog............. Either with or without approval they will be "with" you
July 28, 2008
5:08 p.m.
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denvergirl80205 writes:
I know it's not as much fun when one has facts and cites, but: Denvergov.org says city park is 370 acres and that includes the golf course.
July 28, 2008
5:11 p.m.
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denvergirl80205 writes:
And here is the website link:
http://www.denvergov.org/City_Park_Al...
July 28, 2008
5:18 p.m.
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YourNeilness writes:
You're welcome, COLib, and thanks, denvergirl. I read the parks section on COLib's link and didn't see where the 314 includes the golf course. So, lets just say its 370 with the golf course and 314 without it. So, the golf course must be 56 acres.
July 28, 2008
5:20 p.m.
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COLibertarian writes:
jay from your post
"why in the world would we include land not in the actual park in which the campers will be camping, colib? i'm not sure why you want to include a golf course NEXT to the park in which the kids will be collecting. can you tell me why?"
I was trying to figure out total acreage of park simple as that. some maps showed golf course part of park. just trying to figure calculation from which to define amount of real area in park that is accessible for camping. Not all of park is. simple
Your question is invalid and leading as it is not pertinent to the timeframe of the issue at hand. They were told no that they could not stay there. Months they have had to make arrangements. If this does not concern you then you are just trying to be