Beaten by the demons in the park

Bruised by life and haunted by the past, Michael struggles to survive

By James B. Meadow, Rocky Mountain News (Contact)

Published July 23, 2008 at 12:05 a.m.

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Darin McGregor © The Rocky

Michael, 52, said he was assaulted while collecting cans at Civic Center Park on Saturday night in Denver.

Civic Center Blues series

Reporter James Meadow and photographer Darin McGregor spend days and nights at Civic Center to document life at the park in the heart of Denver. Read more stories, view slide shows, and comment on the series.

More Local News

Comments

July 23, 2008

3:30 a.m.

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Meggie writes:

The old man is sick. Ill. He seems to have grown accustomed to his street life. Has bis own survival method. Those eyes hold vast amounts of memorys of pain and heart break yet he survives and who knows how much longer. But to jump the man and beat him ...what for? The park is "Bad" to him. But he cans...and in the coolness and stillness of nighttime. And the memorys of Joyce with him wherever he goes. He does no harm to anyone. It wouldnt occur to him to harm anyone. He drinks his lager to numb the past pains and so what if he does? I love it that he has a political preference. He still can think that far. If he wants to dislike Ronald Reagan well who cares. He is entitled too. This is America. Actually I sometimes wonder if he is the mentally correct one. Anc yet someone beats the poor old fella. Cowards? Yes and worse.
July 23, 2008

4:18 a.m.

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LOUIE writes:

Man is a sad byproduct of the modern world; easy to be cold and walk platitudes. Its a measure of a society's greatness, in how it treats the least of it's citizens. Many have mental illnesses, some readily identify with the life, others have severe pasts, but few are a threat to anyone. He has more to fear of society, than society does of him. Some find sport in abusing these lowly member of our society. Way my luck has ran in life, I'll die and walk into the gates of eternity, and they'll be sitting next to the Lord. Lot can be drawn from the biblical story of Lazarus, the poor beggar who layed at the gates of the rich man. One suffered eternal torment, while the other was comforted in the arms of Abraham. Easy to be proud, till you walked in anothers shoes.
July 23, 2008

6:25 a.m.

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Crub writes:

In 50 years, the minority will be the hard working individual with a college degree. It saddens me to say this, but the world will soon be filled with "Michael Chipps" and there's nothing we can do about it. The kids are running the show...and that needs to change.
July 23, 2008

7:46 a.m.

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Meggie writes:

He needs medication and has none. Alcoholism is a disease whether we like it or not. 52 is old when you drink like that. He is content in his own world....not hurting anyone. Leave him alone.
July 23, 2008

7:49 a.m.

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Meggie writes:

By the Way Gene. Those parks are for EVERYONE IN THE CITY not just you! So he looks bad...so what? You ought to see me in the morning and I am 56.
July 23, 2008

7:51 a.m.

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Oroboros writes:

My understanding is that Denver *is* doing something about the problem. Here's a news story from this very newspaper about the Metro Denver Homeless Initiative:

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn...

And here's the web site for that initiative. Note: they need volunteers.

http://www.mdhi.org/

So, who wants to put up, or shut up? Oh, I guess it's a lot easier to spout off on the Internet.
July 23, 2008

7:52 a.m.

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alwaysright writes:

Right Americans forget the ole duffer, Lets send our money over seas to help poor people. the heck with taking care of our own.
July 23, 2008

7:57 a.m.

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windbourne writes:

>>Since you scribble out anything these mental giants tell you, when are you going to interview the guy with the earflaps and the "Clinton Raped Jaunita" sign, who now has it converted to say "Omama is a Commie."

Why should he take a pix of you?
July 23, 2008

7:57 a.m.

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gr8fuldude writes:

Another shining example of our mental health and medical systems at work. Also speaks volumes to our city government and its priorities.
July 23, 2008

8:46 a.m.

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freedomfighter1 writes:

For those who read this as if they were being blamed...these articles are written to allow you to openly explore yourself. You interpreted their meanings as blameful, and that is a reflection of yourself. Some have understood it as a (re)minder about mental health/illness and others as an economical reference to our current condition and system. This is why I have enjoyed this 3 peice series...it allows us to examine the situation in our own ways.
July 23, 2008

9:04 a.m.

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mmm58 writes:

alwaysright has a point. How and why can we, as a country afford to help everyone else out and yet still have these people living on streets and scrounging from trash cans. Oh yeah for the same reason we build new prisons and don't care about schools! The priorities are obvious. We need to look good as a nation, and our city streets don't matter. 30 years ago we had a few bums/winos and they were out there by choice. Now homelessness affects even total families with women and children and veterans. They are not all out there by choice! Think about it!
July 23, 2008

9:09 a.m.

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LooseCannon writes:

James, you're too good a writer for this tertiary belly-of-the-beast stuff. As a friend told you a few years past, write novels.
July 23, 2008

9:23 a.m.

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colokid writes:

I'm a believer that there are winners and losers in life, plain and simple. Try as you may, but some people just do not want your help.
July 23, 2008

9:27 a.m.

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Jimmied writes:

As sad as this man's story is, it is yet another example of how homelessness is not primarily an economic problem. This man has mental and substance abuse problems. He is homeless because his behavior makes him unemployable. Maybe he belongs in a mental facility, but no one can force him there. The fact is that no amount of charity will change this man's state. Without treatment and individual effort on his part, he is forever homeless. Denver needs to wake up and realize that we need stronger laws regarding panhandling, sleeping in parks, and loitering on sidewalks. The reason our homeless problem is so large, is because we attract those who are chronically homeless with our lax laws and well meaning citizens who waste their money on panhandlers. Some of the homeless are extremely dangerous, just ask Mr. Chipps. Remember the story from a few years ago were a south Broadway business owner was brutally murdered by a homeless man? This is a problem than can and should be fixed with tougher laws. Only Denver's City Council doesn't seem to have the will or the spine to do it. They have bought into Mayor Hick's idea that he and his clowns are going to end homelessness in Denver. Mayor Hick's homeless plan is now in its third or fourth year, and the homeless problem seems to be worse. Maybe Grandma was right when she said, "If you feed one stray, you'll just have two on your porch the next day."
July 23, 2008

9:31 a.m.

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davies writes:

The guy is mentally ill but getting by. It doesn't say or imply that he is homeless, does it? It says he gets two monthly checks to live on. It says he collects cans for extra money, but it also says he smokes cigarettes and drinks beer.

One of my brothers is like this guy, and he is DEFINITELY happier living day-to-day like this, than he would be in an institution. You "deplorers" out there want to criticize the fact that he lives this way, when in fact he is not all that unhappy, except for the beating he just got from someone. Judging by his random thoughts and comments, it is entirely possible and logical to suppose that he may have offended his assaulter.

Government just can't cure everything that is wrong in everyone's life. So ask yourself, is it really compassion for this man's plight that you are feeling? Because if so there are opportunities to volunteer or contribute to agencies that help people like him. Or do you really just want him off the streets and out of your sight?
July 23, 2008

9:44 a.m.

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Jimmied writes:

Okay Davies, I'll concede that maybe this guy has a roof over his head. However, a roof over his head hasn't helped him one bit other than occasionally keeping him out of the weather. His behavior is exactly like all other homeless people with mental issues and substance abuse problems. He digs through garbage to buy his beer, and pokes through ashtrays to find his cigarettes. A home does not solve the problem. This guy may have a home but he still spends most of his time on the streets. Homelessness is a disease with many symptoms. The lack of a house is just one of those symptoms.
July 23, 2008

9:57 a.m.

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gcrez writes:

I need some verification here! Has anyone else noticed how many homeless people are in Grand Junction? It is a far trek from any major city, so how did they get there? I heard that when Salt Lake City hosted the Winter Olympics, that they were giving their homeless people a free bus ticket to GJ. Has anyone else heard this? I wonder if Denver will do the same ahead of DNC? Let's wait and see!
July 23, 2008

10:08 a.m.

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truth22 writes:

GC, things like that go on all of the time. I hear that they will be giving out free movie passes during the DNC to "clean up" the parks next month.

All of this goes on in a city park at night? We had no idea!! Thanks.
Signed, Reclusives, Cavemen, Aliens and James Meadows.
July 23, 2008

10:16 a.m.

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windskull writes:

Why if he`s homeless is this guy collecting BOTH SSA & SSI at age 52 this scheming bs of using shelters for physical addresses to collect disability must be stopped!

Granted he is legally blind but he bends, reaches, crushes cans,lifts & carries a 30 lbs bag of cans..By SSA rules he is certainly capable of running a shovel or hoe meaning an illegal goes back down South and Mike gets a job and necessary medication

He`s bound to be happier in the fresh air away from drugs & thugs beating him up plus on the farm he will be getting food,shelter & weekly pay which is obviously more than he is scrounging from "canning" while also collecting disability when his very actions have clearly demonstrated he is able bodied
July 23, 2008

10:35 a.m.

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windskull writes:

This reminds me of the Nebraska Nurse profiled when that big fiasco at the Bronco`s Stadium took place, that "nurse"& her schizo boy friend purportedly came to see her son a guest at Colorado taxpayers expense in the juvenile detention facility. The reporter detailed how these people`s car broken down and she went on to see her son in a correctional facility requiring positive identification for visitors YET this woman lacked I.D. the retrieve her car from impound and they went out of the way in the print to say her job was waiting for her back in Nebraska but rather than make a COLLECT call to her employer to advance the cost of 2 bus tickets 45 various volunteers at the bumstravaganza ran these people from one end to the other then right out the dang gate onto the same park bench where they found them for this feel good & do nothing event!
July 23, 2008

11:14 a.m.

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JimmyTheSaint writes:

Meadows:

You forgot the part about where he hustles for $100+ a day by holding a sign saying "Hon. Dis. Veteran" or "Stranded and need $ to get to KC" or "God Bless".

Con men. 98% of them. NOT homeless.

Remember that cold stretch last winter when temps went -10 for weeks? If every one of these fakers were truly "homeless" we'd have been stacking their bodies up like cordwood.

Guess what? NONE DIED.

I just got back from 4 other cities on the West Coast and none of them have our problems. We need to pass legislation, and get these parasites out of our public areas and street corners, or change Denver's City Slogan to something like "Denver. More Beggars Than Calcutta."
July 23, 2008

11:24 a.m.

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SL10 writes:

Beating up on elderly, disabled persons. Including children are felonies punishable by up to 16 years in prison. People who beat up on the mentioned persons bums or not, should not be allowed to be free. FYI here people can collect SSDI and SSI together. This happens when the SSDI benefit is below the SSI benefit level. SSI is used to boost the SSDI benefit to $636 a month for 2008. Btw, people who are blind can always get a job. Many employers DO DISCRIMINATE against disabled folks. This I know. This guy does need to stop this practice of "canning". He should have applied for section 8 housing? If this guy is a vet hopefully he seeks help from the VA.
July 23, 2008

11:38 a.m.

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iggypuppet writes:

Gene, you need to get your facts straight, my friend.

From the electronic journal of sociology: http://www.sociology.org/content/vol0...

By the middle of the 1970s, groups representing the mentally ill, their families, and those who cared for them had reached a consensus on the need for reform. This culminated in the passage of the Mental Health Systems Act. This implementation, though not without its problems, was seen as a progressive step forward. However the costs of these reforms were unacceptable in the new neoconservative climate and ran counter to the interests of capital. Reagan, who never presumed to support social policy, promised to cut federal spending and ensure a "favorable business climate." So under Reagan the new law was rescinded. This signaled that for Reagan's administration, social policy was of lower priority than fiscal policy. After this act, the interest groups would need to settle for piecemeal reforms within the limitations of the administration's desire for low cost reform measures.

The "New Federalism" served as justification for relaxed federal "interference" in state issues, including mental health policy. The business community was facing a crisis of accumulation, and a shift in the political economy was perceived as necessary to guarantee adequate profit. With the abdication of the federal government, mental health policy was almost entirely in the province of the individual states.

A survey of initiatives shows that they came primarily from individual state legislatures, and thus varied according to state. The procedures for commitment of the mentally ill accordingly vary by state. Many states have adopted outpatient commitment as an alternative to inpatient care, and this policy has met with mixed results. Many state hospitals have been closed, and many others are facing the possibility. Sadly, professional groups with opposing interests have stalled the implementation of a comprehensive mental health policy in most states (Becker, 1993; Wilson, 1993).

Under the Reagan Administration, groups and individuals who had hoped for a change found that the federal government did very little to effect a change. The appointment of conservative justices for the federal court system was a part of the "law and order" platform advocated by the administration and thus was never intended to have a direct effect on procedures regarding involuntary commitment or any other aspect of mental health policy.
(slightly edited to stay under 3000 characters!)

If you want to blame anyone for the homeless problem in our society, blame Ronald Reagan, who put profit and corporate greed ahead of the needs of those who suffered mental illness. It got no better under Bush I, Clinton or Bush II.

Rosalyn Carter tried to help the mentally ill... Reagan turned his back on them. What you see on our street corners and parks is a direct result of Ronald Reagan and his policies.
July 23, 2008

11:41 a.m.

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AndyB588 writes:

I live in the burbs, get into my car and the drive to work, I park in the parking garage right there at work and luckily never have to deal with those people. Shuck's to be him.

That's why I vote Republican! Because I can!
July 23, 2008

11:44 a.m.

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SL10 writes:

Windskull, many disabled folks who live in the shelters try to find homes. But, many apartment rents are too high from what they receive in benefits (VA, SSDI, SSI, RAILROAD TIER 1 or 2 Benefits, Black Lung Plan B, etc.) I receive both VA and SSDI benefits so I can afford my rent without the need of section 8. The waiting list for section 8 is 3 years to get it. Affordable housing has always been a problem for folks who truly are disabled and unabled to get a job. Esp. us veterans sad but true.
July 23, 2008

11:46 a.m.

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davies writes:

Once again, please note the article does NOT say the guy is homeless!

He's mentally ill, he has abused drugs, he goes to the park to collect cans to redeem for extra money, and someone beat him up while he was there one night. That's what the article says. Sad story, yes, but people get beat up all the time, in bars, in high school and on the streets.

Does this person want a solution imposed upon him, such as to be housed in an assisted living facility and be banned from being in the park after dark? I would venture to say no.
July 23, 2008

11:49 a.m.

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freedomfighter1 writes:

"This is one of the best places for picking up cans," he says, as if for the first time. "Even though I live across the street, if it wasn't for the cans, I wouldn't be out here anymore."

Simple solution: stop disposing of your cans in the park.
July 23, 2008

11:58 a.m.

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SL10 writes:

Davies, what you say is true that people do get beat up for varies reasons. But, to beat up on elderly, disabled folks including children is totally unexcusable. Period.
July 23, 2008

11:59 a.m.

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ssquared writes:

AndyB588 Aren't you lucky. Society's lack of compassion and turning
a blind eye is just as much a part of the problem as the people who
have the problem.
But for the grace of god go you. Do you even care that a surpising number
of these folks are the very veterans who fought for your right to be a
self righteous @ss with no social conscience?
Hope your dogma eats your karma.
July 23, 2008

12:02 p.m.

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skeeve writes:

I used to work in the McNichols next to the park and I had to walk through the park each day. During that time I saw how bad nasty that park was. The funny part about it is that when the cops would raid the park, for the next two weeks or so it was great. So I have a simple solution to clean up the park, station two police officers in the park as their beat. What's really funny is that suggestion was made to the mayor's office 3 years ago.

The reason the park is the way it is, is because our elected officials really don't care about it or the safety of those who occupy it.
July 23, 2008

12:12 p.m.

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davies writes:

Beating up anyone without provocation is inexcusable; this should be obvious. Beating up someone who is defenseless, even with provocation, is inexcusable.

But if this guy still likes going to the park to collect cans at night, it's entirely possible that he'll get beat up again, or worse. Saying that it is inexcusable, or blaming Ronald Reagan for homelesness, or insisting on some "solution" is pointless, in my opinion.
July 23, 2008

12:21 p.m.

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SL10 writes:

ssqured, give it time cause I am seeing many like Andy who are losing homes due to foreclosure. Andy, I hope you never lose your job or have a life changing event that may make you homeless. I am seeing many who thought they were above approach become homeless overnight. Count your blessings.
July 23, 2008

12:22 p.m.

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pj48b writes:

Another victim? Poor me. Sick of reading about these poor drug using, drunks that are getting my tax money.
July 23, 2008

12:28 p.m.

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tolawdjk writes:

Gene, you make me laugh.

A 52 year old, mentally disturbed individual that picks up cans out of the park disparages Regan, and you can't just seem to let it go?
July 23, 2008

12:40 p.m.

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ONEman writes:

I don't know if the recent stories on the homeless and civic center park are because of the DNC, but I can appreciate the opportunistic reporting... front page no less. I would like for people who look down their nose at these guys to have an opportunity to see that they are just people. We all have a past but they are low self esteemed individuals, some with harder luck than others. But just people, when you strip away all the dirt and booze. If you can help em out with some change, do it. Don't judge em for they should be the very reason why we appreciate what we have.If you have a family love em and appreciate them, if you have money help someone who does'nt. I'm not saying clean out your bank account but if you have some change or a few ones.... pay it forward. Don't worry about how they spend it, the act of kindness is what matters most. Peace and One Love.
July 23, 2008

12:41 p.m.

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SL10 writes:

pj48b, why complain about drug addicts and drunks getting your tax money? When people give many people who aren't disabled aka fake homeless money thru panhandling for their drug and beer habits. Complain instead of the waste tax dollars on illegals and fake homeless (who have a fear of work) who are leeches on welfare. At least this guy Micheal in the article is not panhandling and trying to do what he can do even tho he says he did or does illegal drugs. Many vets unfortunely use illegal drugs to combat PTSD, I myself do not condone this but I can understand it at least. I consider this guy worthy of help than say a fake homeless who can get a job, but who is too dam lazy to do so.
July 23, 2008

12:43 p.m.

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redwhiteandBLUE writes:

There's no reason for this poor man to be beat up!! Leave him alone!
July 23, 2008

12:48 p.m.

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ssquared writes:

Patroling the park, as skeeve suggests, is a good idea.

Unfortunately all that is accomplished is cleaning up
the park while the problem simply moves elsewhere and
the cycle continues.
There is no short term solution to a long term problem.
We start with the questions of whether we, as a society,
truely want to solve the problem and does it make more
sense to take care of our own before we feed the rest of
the world.
Personally speaking, I would rather have my tax dollars
going to feed, house, train and get a homeless person to
a job than feed and house someone half a world away who
isn't going to do a damned thing to help my cause or our
society.
Call me silly, but I don't see taxes going down anytime
soon. So, if I have to pay 'em, I'd rather take my chances
and have them spent here trying to help one of our own
get back on their feet and paying taxes like the rest of us.
As a society we can sit back, ignor the problem and keep on
bit@hing because it won't go away by itself. Or, we can
accept the fact that the problem is just as much the fault
of our society as it it the fault of the people who live it.
Like anything else, apathy cost money.
July 23, 2008

12:51 p.m.

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ssquared writes:

Right on and props to ONEman!
July 23, 2008

12:57 p.m.

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tvteacup writes:

If in fact Michael is mentally ill and blind, he isn't the best candidate for getting and holding a job. Not too many would hire him. Many mentally ill people often refuse to take the drugs they need because of the many side effects. And many just forget to take them or run out of them and don't get them refilled etc. People like Michael need someone to look out for them. Someone to make sure they get the benefits they are entitled to, the medications they need and the proper diet. Someone to make sure they take their medications. Someone to make sure they have a roof over their heads, and the health care they need. Sadly, no one is going to do that for him. Yes he is an adult with the right to chose how he lives, but sadly he isn't capable of making the best choices for himself. Thus often putting himself in danger. When the elderly, (people in their 80/90's), become senile, and are no longer capable of taking care of themselves, we often intervene and put them into nursing homes against their wills. While this is sad, it's usually done in their best interests. That is why we had mental institutions in the first place. To house, and feed people that aren't capable of taking care of themselves. Sadly these institutions were underfunded, and the treatment and care of the mentally ill was abominable in most cases, and I don't want to see us go back to that, but we do need something more for these people then what we are currently offering them. We need more outreach programs, and gaurdian angels to run them. People that really care about these people. And we need government funding for these programs. Some of the billions we've spent for this war could have been going to programs like that. Programs to help our own people. It often seems like we care more about the people in other countries then we do about our own..........
July 23, 2008

1 p.m.

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vendari01 writes:

Every society in history has had those who cannot cope, and every society has had those who prey on them. And yes, every society has had those who use the system to do as little as possible, mooch off of those who do work, and blame everyone else for it all. I doubt if the future really holds a real solution, no matter who is in the White House, Congress, or the Governor's office. Every problem has at least on simple solution, and that solution is usually wrong. Do I think I know the answer? No.
July 23, 2008

1:14 p.m.

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DahmersCookbook writes:

That picture frightens me, thanks RMN, THANKS.
July 23, 2008

1:15 p.m.

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happymike44 writes:

The majority of homeless suffer from emotional and physical problems.
It does not give any of us the right to make fun of them or show no sympathy towards him.
Just because he is not the bank president does not mean he should not be treated like a victim of a crime.
This could have happened to any one of us,we are talking about people lacking respect for the human being in front of them.
I was raised to respect every person no matter who they are.
I wonder if th person who did this will ever realize how close they came to killing someone.
It does not matter murder is murder so do not dismiss this incident.
the next time it could be a mother of two walking in the park.
So clean up the park for the safety of everyone,rich or poor.
July 23, 2008

1:20 p.m.

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ssquared writes:

Expect the White House, Congress or the Governors office to do
something? That's the first mistake in trying to solve any problem.
WE, and only WE, can solve the problem. That is the first step in
solving the problem.
I'm sixty years old and I've discovered only a few sure things. Death,
taxes, another Batman sequel, Keith Richards gets uglier and I WILL
die waiting for our lazy @ssed congress to do anything. Do you know
they have scheduled themselves to deal with the pressing issues of our
country just 39 days of "working" sessions between now and Inauguration
Day '09?
Don't vote for incumbants until they start getting their @sses out of
bed and go to work like the rest of us!
July 23, 2008

1:21 p.m.

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mytwosense writes:

davies, I actually get what you're saying. Someone in my family, now diseased, also lived that way, as does your brother. When this person in my family died, we were standing at his memorial marker and my brother-in-law suddenly said, "He's not here. He's out there." And he pointed to the woods. He was right, our family member was a gypsy, a wanderer, someone who preferred the outdoors to being boxed into a rigid social order.

He did try to do the latter for many years, served in the armed forces, worked as a skilled carpenter, played the guitar...a very talented, kind, gentle man. Unfortunately, he was also an alcoholic and that eventually parleyed into a severe mental illness. He brought a great deal of unhappiness on himself and his family, but at heart, he just wasn't meant for the hyper-orderly, hyper-moving world we have become today.

Back to the subject of this article...there are people who get their kicks beating up the mentally ill and homeless. And those people are just as sick, if not sicker, in my opinion. That is certainly indicative of a societal dysfunction that needs to be addressed just as much as homelessness.
July 23, 2008

1:28 p.m.

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HolierThanThou writes:

Looks like compassionate conservatism at its best.
July 23, 2008

1:30 p.m.

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tvteacup writes:

Mytwo, I agree with you 100 percent. To be blind and mentally ill, is one thing, but to be supposedly sane, and beat up a blind mentally ill man is another all together. How sane can he/she be to do that? Prey on someone that is already beaten down by life. A person that would do that is less then human in my book. And far more dangerous to society then most homeless people will ever be.
July 23, 2008

1:48 p.m.

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ssquared writes:

OMG Gene. You don't actually consume that intellectual garbage
do you? There's just something about a "Man Bursts Into Flames
While Sunbathing" headline that lacks literary integrity for most.
FYI >>> Edwards spends his money on hairstyling ... not on hotel
rooms for frivalous trysts.
July 23, 2008

1:57 p.m.

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4gColoNative writes:

I need people like Michael ... as a cautionary example to my teenage children.
I'll venture to say that 99% of the people in predicaments like Michael's blew one or more of these cardinal rules:
- Stay In School
- Learn a Trade (even if you do go all the way to a PhD)
- Maintain Your Health
- Don't Become Substance Dependent
- Don't Commit a Felony
- Save a Good Portion of Your Income
- Don't Live Beyond Your Means
- Don't Bring Ba$tard Children into the World

What to do with them (for them) when people have screwed up their lives? I don't have the answer. But their existence lends credibility to the Rules above!
July 23, 2008

2:06 p.m.

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tvteacup writes:

It would be nice if we could hold our politicians to some higher standard, then seems to be the norm today. Sadly they probably cheat, steal and commit all crimes at the same percentage rate as what is average for any group of people in today's society. For us as American citizens to think otherwise is pretty stupid. However, reading that gossip garbage doesn't say much for your intellect. We should be judging our politicians more for the laws they pass and the things they accomplish while in office, then for who they sleep with. If we examined your life, Gene, under a microscope, what would we see? Would you be proud of every thing
you ever did, every step you ever took? I hope so, but I doubt it. If we keep doing that to all of our political candidates we soon, won't be able to get anyone to run for office in this country.
July 23, 2008

2:21 p.m.

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tvteacup writes:

Yes 4g, those are good rules to follow. It would be nice if everyone did. But not everyone has the same upbringing as your children obviously do. Not everyone is taught those valuable lessons. Some children are raised by drug addicts, and hookers. Some are physically and emotionally abused. Some are born blind or handicapped in some way, and some are mentally ill either because of the treatment they received as a child, or they are just born that way. For those people it's not as easy to
stay in school
learn a trade, little alone get a phd.
maintain their health (they might never have had the good fortune of having good health to maintain)
I'm not saying it's impossible to live a good life, if your dealt a rotten hand, but I am saying it is much harder for some then others. Walk in their shoes and see where they take you. You might have the God given brains, intellect, good upbringing, opportunities etc. to make the better choices. You might have had a terrible upbringing, but still the good sense to make better choices then your parents did. And that's wonderful for you, but not every one has that good sense.
July 23, 2008

2:35 p.m.

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buffsblg writes:

colonative, what will you tell them about avoiding a genetic mental illness like schizophrenia? I understand that you should give your kids advice and try to pass on wisdom and I support that. There are certainly ways to try to protect ourselves against living like this. However, too many people on here choose to judge this guy as a failure, not understanding that he had no more choice about having mental illness than others do about having cancer or MS.

For example, you have people like notchaseb who "know" that most homeless are just evil folks who avoid responsibility and apparently deserve to die. He has no facts to back up what he "knows" but it comforts him to feel superior. (a truly false assumption) I have both prosecuted and defended lots of homeless and dealt with their kids. Every person on the street has some story, some sad, some pathetic, some pretty bad and alot of them mentally ill. It is comforting to believe that we could never be in that situation, but that is not always true.
July 23, 2008

2:40 p.m.

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tvteacup writes:

Amen buff, Amen!
July 23, 2008

3:02 p.m.

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mytwosense writes:

buff: "It is comforting to believe that we could never be in that situation, but that is not always true."

I think you just nailed the reason why a handful of posters appear to be personally affronted by this man's story, and the compassionate reaction from many of the other posters. It's a fear-based reaction. If you can FEEL superior to others, why then, you ARE superior...and so you stand a better chance of avoiding tragedy and difficult circumstances.
July 23, 2008

3:03 p.m.

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ssquared writes:

4gColoNative > Yes, 99% of these people have likely violated one
or more of your eight cardinal rules. So what? 99% of our society
has likely violated one or more of these rules as well.
My next door neighbor and his wife both have good jobs. They live
in a $550,000 home, have two Cadillac Escalades, a Lexus, a boat,
to personal watercraft, a pop-up camper and their 16-year old
daughter has a new Mazda 3. Their house has been in foreclosure
for three months and they don't have a clue what they are going
to do or where they're going to live.
Add 'stupidity' to the list as well. Unfortunately, everyone has
done something stupid ... some don't recover as well as others I
suppose. I don't care how these people got there. I care only about
what WE can do to help them help themselves. Thus far, the richest
county on the planet has failed miserably in giving our less fortuate
a leg up.
July 23, 2008

3:09 p.m.

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ssquared writes:

Er ah damn. Toss an 'r' into that 'county' error and it will
magically become the word 'country'. I'm an @ss ... I always
crit others for their spelling. Sorry, my bad. Spank me.
July 23, 2008

3:12 p.m.

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4gColoNative writes:

Round up a hundred people in the U.S. in circumstances like this and get a complete and correct life history (as if you could). Now, how many do you believe got there through No Fault of Their Own? (e.g., genetic mental illness like schizophrenia). Some people might believe there would be one or two. Some people would say up to 15. But even at 15, that means 85 out of the 100 didn't follow good advice available to them from whatever source (if not parents, then teachers, pastors, neighbors, public service announcements, social workers ...).

I'm not saying they deserve ill treatment or to be completely abandoned as fellow humans. I do believe that the universe delivers consequences for screwing up and that's the way it should be (as if we had a real choice).
July 23, 2008

3:19 p.m.

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ssquared writes:

mytwosense.
I like your thought analysis. Are you a psikololojist?

I don't know whos words, but my grandfather used to tell me;
A great society and great people are measured by how they
honor their dead ... and how compassionate they are toward
their sick and the poor.
July 23, 2008

4:06 p.m.

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Who_Me writes:

LOUIE -

"Man is a sad byproduct of the modern world; easy to be cold and walk platitudes. Its a measure of a society's greatness, in how it treats the least of it's citizens. Many have mental illnesses, some readily identify with the life, others have severe pasts, but few are a threat to anyone. He has more to fear of society, than society does of him. Some find sport in abusing these lowly member of our society."

And you advocate beat downs on certain people in your past life/living conditions?
July 23, 2008

4:31 p.m.

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buffsblg writes:

native (by the way I am 4th generation as well) my guess is that it is higher than that. A quick search shows estimates of 20-40%. I admit that getting good numbers is very hard but that is alot of people. If you accept that substance abuse has a significant genetic component, then of course the number sky rockets.

What is "no fault of their own." You obviously feel that those with substance problems do not count, but what about kids who flee abusive homes (I have seen many of those)? or veterans with PTSD (not genetic, but not their fault either)? and there are more people out there who do not get good advice than you may think. I really do not believe public service messages are all that helpful at preventing homelessness.

If you had met some of the parents I have met, you might be more forgiving of some kids who choose the streets. If the choice is being raped by your stepdad every day, or prostituted by your mom then living on the streets looks better. (neither one is a hypothetical by the way, each is a real story I had to tell in court).

I do not deny that some "choose" to be homeless for reasons no one else would support. What I object to is the assumptions by most people that they are somehow inherently superior to those on the street. We are fallible men subject to the whims of fate and we all to some extent take the risk of falling into ruin. John Donne said it well, "never send to know for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for thee".

Where we part company is that while you believe that most homeless folks somehow "deserve" to be there, I do not see the universe as that just. Many of us have "advantages" either genetic or societal that lower our risk of being homeless. To ignore those advantages and instead convince ourselves that these folks got what they deserved and that we are where we are because we are somehow morally superior is to over simplify and more importantly, is to justify our unwillingness to help.
July 23, 2008

4:46 p.m.

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LOUIE writes:

Yes Who_Me, you are correct. I have no use for the child rapist(s), for which we disagreed on a previous post. I know many of the homeless, I find it hard to relate to my previous conviction as to my disdain for child rapists, as to how it relates here. I once threw out of my office "Pastor" Bruce Boggs, the founder and pastor, of Christ Body Ministries, a shelter that feeds the homeless after he told me his church ordained a pedophile as a minister. Bruce was an excon like myself, but that's where the simularities differed. As pastor of the homeless provider and church he tried to explain how the newly ordained minister was sorry for raping the child, and how the congregation accepted his ministry. I, along with my staff tossed Mr. Boggs out, sorry "Pastor" Bruce later hung himself, but I strongly disagreed with "Pastor Bruces" actions as they pertained to the child rapist he/his church Chirst Body Ministries had ordained. I still donate and assist many homeless people, but I will never allow myself the deception in forgiving a child rapist. "Pastor" Bruce Boggs went on to hang himself, sad but he had his issues. So other than my opinion on child rapists which you adhor, how is it applicable here, unless your telling me all homeless are child rapists. I know many sex offenders use the shelters to give a false location, concerning the sex registry which was the article we debated. Should that stop me from helping the others? Let me know cause I put out quite a bit helping a lot of them. So hows this relate other than sex offenders use the addresses of homeless shelters to hide thier true residence. I don't feel that subject pertain here, unless you have a real good point other than many sex offenders are homeless and mentally disturbed, at which point I would still care less for the child rapist even being free, much less homeless. So, let me hear it, you brought our past disagreement up for a reason. I'm civil, so give me what you got...pal.
July 23, 2008

4:47 p.m.

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happymike44 writes:

I see no one pointing to loving your fellow person.
I see the me,me,me,me generation.
This man is not as fortunate as so many of us are.
We do not have a right to judge,glad to see so many say how horrific this crime is.
This could be anyone of us at any given moment.
So while you discuss how he is doing this wrong and that wrong,remember it could be you.
Homelessness happens to all types of familes and people at any given moment.
So if you live in your multi million dollar homes and write your critique of this man.
Remember this man could be you or someone you love.
This crime is horrific and should not be tolerated by anyone. Maybe we should be using the foreclosed homes for helping the homeless.
I think highland ranch would be a good place to start.
Look at all those empty houses and big yards seems like a good place for charity to bigin at home.
July 23, 2008

4:50 p.m.

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ssquared writes:

I don't disagree with all you say 4gColoNative. However, the fact
is these people HAVE BEEN broadly abandoned by society and,
most ironically, we sit back complain about them while we feed
half of the third world and do nothing to help solve the problems
in our own backyard.
For AndyB588, it's a simple matter of "out of sight, out of mind".
That's fine if you can live with yourself with that attitude and
you don't whine about the problem. For me, it's not a matter of
how these people arrived at this point in their lives, but rather a
matter of how we help those who can be helped to help
themselves while accepting the reality nothing is 100%. The fact
is our efforts have been just as pathetic as the lives of those
who need our help.
In my opinion, it's unconscionable to turn our back to these people
while we send billions of dollars elsewhere in the world. They
are not entitled to a free handout. But they sure as hell deserve
a the opportunity to prove themselves and become self sufficient
if that will help to solve the problem. If they 'fall out' of the
opportunity, then we can honestly and factually say they choose
the life the have.
For all of those who are unhappy with their tax dollars going to
these people -
As I've stated previously ... apathy costs money as well. I think
you'll agree ... generally it's cheaper to solve a problem than
to ignore it and 'hope' it goes away or gets better.
July 23, 2008

4:52 p.m.

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LOUIE writes:

So were clear, in prison I bust glass on the man who rapes a child, I will hold cloaks at his stoning. I will forgive all crimes but this one: raping a child. Were clear, okay. I believe child rapists should be put to death. I've had all kinds of cell partners, but I'd light a child rapist on fire the minute the hack shut the cell door. I want no misunderstanding, homeless people are worlds apart from the child rapist in my heart. Okay, you hit, and hit me hard Who_Me.
July 23, 2008

5:28 p.m.

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LOUIE writes:

HappyMike44, I know of several men who once had the world only to lose it all and end up homeless. Also know many who came from extreme adversity and achieved many things. Many are there by choice. Many I have spent the time with are quite comfortable with being on the street. Some just don't have the ability to sustain an existance like you or I; many suffer mental illnesses. I believe your better off homeless in America, than any other nation. Name one nation that has so many places, churches, individuals reaching out to them like America. Even Mayor Hinkenlooper reaches out, maybe foolishly to some, and his plan may surely fail, as I belive it will. I still can't find fault with his concern, he knows it's a big issue he and those that come after him will have to address. On thanksgiving I used to drive around giving away cases of cheap wine to the homeless ones I knew were alcoholics. Lord did people scream at me, ministers, you name tore into me on that one. Still do it though. I donate huge boxes of clothes from various properties where we have storage units or tennants who leave thier stuff behind. I work with two churches in helping the ones who need it find storage units and I carry thier debt months overdue. Storage is just one of many businesses my family owns. All it does is insure every square foot of one of our properties produces money. So many of the homeless tenants are/ get months behind and we eat the loss often times. Sometimes a church like "Scum of The Earth" or others send them in with a check to help us absorb a small portion of the loss. As a businessman we always have to think on our feet and there is only a small number I can do this with. The head of my family although extremely wealthy, yells at us over these units, but even he has a heart when it comes to tossing thier belongings out. We just limit the number and pray the rest find another safe place to put thier belongings while the scour the streets. If you can give me a good answer to the homeless problem, I'm all ears. At least this mayor, who I could care less about, is trying something even if it fails.
July 23, 2008

6:30 p.m.

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ssquared writes:

Louie, You're someone I'd like to meet. I do have some thoughts as
to how we begin to solve the homeless problem. The first premice
being that solving the problem requires a volunteer oranization
asking a little from many ... funding. Idealistic example;
$5 from 20,000 Denver citizens and $20 from 5000 Denver businesses.
Again, maybe idealistic ... but $200,000 will get the attention
of many of the right people and yet more help politically. Remember,
our politicians love to suppport and put their name on anything
which solves a problem and saves the taxpayers money.
These people need a roof over their head, food and
transportation to and from a job. That's all. Once they have
this, they pay for what they are given until they become self sustaining
while the program also bcomes self sustaining.
There are jobs and there is money, but it all has to be outside of
the bureaucratic realm. It has to be committed, private an not
affected by politics and politicians.
This concept is nothing new. In fact, it's at work here in Denver
as I write. The problem is that there aren't enough programs to
support the need and state or city programs offer these people
no direction or the requirement of personal accountability.
These are the very things they need to restore their self worth and
self esteem.
July 23, 2008

6:49 p.m.

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Mike846 writes:

Oroboros writes:

My understanding is that Denver *is* doing something about the problem. Here's a news story from this very newspaper about the Metro Denver Homeless Initiative:

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn...

And here's the web site for that initiative. Note: they need volunteers.

http://www.mdhi.org/

So, who wants to put up, or shut up? Oh, I guess it's a lot easier to spout off on the Internet.

Well, I'll tell you, lots of us do volunteer. Step 13 has a whole program to get drunks and druggies assistance. AA in Denver has strong members always willing to help. Of course, almost all this type of help entails getting straight and sober, getting a job, taking responsibility for their own life, etc. etc. Sadly, there are those people who will never get well. There was another post about what Rudi Guiliani accomplished in New York City. That's a classic example of how a thinking, working city government can change these types of problems for the better. Sadly, Hizzoner Mayor Hick only seems to be concerned with political correctness and typical liberal platitudes about "helping" people. His plan to end homelessness has been tried in Philadelphia, Atlanta and two or three other liberal run cities. They all failed after massive amounts of tax money were thrown at the problems without the "tough love" solutions that are required for success. Stop the madness now. Do not support his "Road Home". Demand accountability from not only the politicians proposing such nonsense, but from the people they claim to be trying to help. If they won't get off the bar stool or stop riding the needle, then its not about us, its about them. I know. I was there, in their place, once. Mike
July 23, 2008

7:31 p.m.

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Meggie writes:

AA in Denver is fantastic. Probably one of the most successful I have ever seen. But you can lead a horse to water but cannot make him drink. There are those that are incapable of being honest. But they should add ....or mentally ill. Tough love does not work very well anymore. I know for along time folks thought it was the answer. I dont care if the man is an alcoholic or mentally ill....homeless or not. Beating a man that is sick like this is sick. No one really knows whats wrong with him...except he drinks and he "cans" in the park. No excuse for beating the man. That needs to stop.
July 23, 2008

7:32 p.m.

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ssquared writes:

Amen Mike846. Part on the reason I'm so impassioned about this
issue is because there are so many people who don't understand
the problem and want to generalize as to why these people are
on the street and remain on the streets.
On a positive note, the majority of those posting seem to have
some compassion and undertanding for these unfortunate people.
I do what I can do to help them, I'm a business owner, and I
give them work when it's available. I also do volunteer work
and support the DRM when I can. More importantly though,
I've learned great deal about this problem by listening to them.
I've learned that this problem is much, much more complex than
a bunch of druggie alcoholics who want to be on the streets.
In fact, I've found that the majority of these people fell on
times or a life altering event and simply can't aquire the basic
resources to pull themselves out. Worse yet, many of them are
veterans whose problems stem from their experiences while in
the military.
Surviving day-to-day is just what it is ... survival.
If I were in that sitution, it might cause me to turn alcoholic
if for no other reason to escape, if just for a few hours, the
stark reality and the feelings of hopelessness.
July 23, 2008

8:17 p.m.

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LOUIE writes:

Meggie your too cool, you have a heart. Don't rule out tough love, just laddle it out with a measure of compassion and understanding. It has a very real impact, but only on certain individuals, like me. More violent they were, the more I fought, more I fought, the more I began to care. Your right though, it doesn't always work, especially when the spirit in a human being dies.
July 23, 2008

8:50 p.m.

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CaptainObvious writes:

HEY NCB! How the heck are you? I was away on vacation (sorry to say I didn't miss you) but now I'm back, and its good to see you're still around. Still the same old lovable you?
July 23, 2008

9:10 p.m.

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ssquared writes:

The sad truth is that none of us has the answer to this
problem. However, there is hope in knowing that so many
have posted comments of compassion for your fellow man.

I think those who would simply cast off the 'street people"
would serve themselves well in asking themselves a simple
question tonight. Would god cast them aside and not love
them because they are less fortunate, ill, homeless or
made mistakes in their lives?
July 23, 2008

10:41 p.m.

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Voutyblonde writes:

Those of you who are declaring this to be poor journalism should consider the propaganda value of this series.

I watched the ups-and-downs of the city's economy – for a couple of decades – through the windshield of the Yellow Cab I was driving. This was far more enlightening than any college degree I could have earned in economics. Whenever there is a crisis in this country, people begin to seek greener pastures, and Denver has always attracted those looking for a fresh start. If you were in Denver in '94, you will remember that, following the Northridge Earthquake, there were California license plates everywhere and plenty of U-Haul trucks from that state as well as from Texas as the Bushes were wrecking havoc down there, as well. Those who had money began buying-up real estate, causing home prices to skyrocket. The relocators of the middle-class filled all the apartments causing rentals prices to become unbearable for the rest of us. This trendy influx of travelers has been a Denver phenomenon since 1858 when the prospectors elbowed out the Natives to take over the great Confluence of the South Platte and Cherry Creek.

A crappy economy causes the carpetbaggers to appear – and they are on their way to Denver (remember Neil Bush and his Silverado Savings & Loan scandal of ‘85 – ‘88?). Next month, all that is beautiful about Denver will be televised worldwide, and will cause those who are in the throes of the mortgage crisis, et al. – thanks to yet another Bush – to beat a path to Denver. If news via the net will cause a bunch of them to consider other options, then I'm all for it. This series is good "bad" PR to keep those who are investigating Denver as their next stop, from deciding to call the city "home." Meadows should keep going about the masses of illegal aliens who refuse to learn the language and provide cheap labor so Americans can't make a living wage.
July 24, 2008

12:23 a.m.

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happymike44 writes:

Hey Louie
You sound like good people,I know it must take a toll on you.
But what you give in this world will be returned in the next.
I am losing my hearing and no longer can work.
My Dad moved in with me he said it was because he was to lonely and needed company.
This I am truly greatful for him and my dog, I to am a kind person who is a witness to the horror in our society.My dog was someone who the world had given up on.
He was a beautiful Siberian left along side a freeway ramp.
He was found and put up for adoption.
I met him a few days before what should have been the end for him.
I sent him to training school for service dogs.
Now he is the brightst light in my life and I am truly greatful for him.
So it only takes a little thing to do something good in this world.
Louie it looks like your trying to do a lot of little things for the less fortunate.
Remember it only takes a few to help so many.
Thank You Louie for doing all you do and showing others it can be done.

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