Year 3 pivotal for Broncos' Cutler

By Sam Adams, Rocky Mountain News (Contact)

Published July 18, 2008 at 5:52 p.m.

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Photo by Barry Gutierrez

Denver Broncos quarterback Jay Cutler talks to the media during quarterback camp at Dove in May.

STATELINE, Nev. — Broncos quarterback Jay Cutler doesn't mind being mentioned in conversation about the NFL's stable of "Young Guns."

Just don't label Cutler a gunslinger.

"I don't feel like I'm a gunslinger," Cutler said, not long after whacking golf balls earlier this month on the driving range at Edgewood Tahoe Golf Course, where several of the NFL's top young quarterbacks competed in the American Century Championship.

"I feel like every throw that I make is anticipated," Cutler said. "I know where I'm going with the ball, I'm not just throwing it anywhere and everywhere for fun. I don't mind it, but I don't think it's completely accurate."

What is accurate about Cutler is the level of comfort he seems to have on the football field. The Broncos start training camp Friday, Cutler's third camp as an NFL player and his second as the team's starting quarterback.

The opportunity to start five games as a rookie in 2006, coupled with 16 starts in 2007 to learn a complicated offense, has provided Cutler a chance to rise among the top quarterbacks in the league in 2008.

"With Jay, he got to play a lot last year," Broncos Hall of Fame quarterback John Elway said. "He's going to start this year where his learning curve is going to be a lot faster. He gets used to everybody around - not only in the system, but everybody around him, knowing the personalities and those type of things to where you feel comfortable.

"The leadership qualities kick in. Guys trust him. All of that helps."

Pivotal year

Coaches, as well as NFL players past and present, eagerly point to the third season as being pivotal to the learning curve for a quarterback's development.

"The third year, basically, for most guys, they should be ready to play," Kansas City Chiefs coach Herman Edwards said. "By the third year, I think you know what kind of player he is - is he a guy you can give the ball to 30 times a game and say, 'Go throw it around the yard'? Or is he a guy that you say, 'Know what? We're not going to ask him to do a whole lot.'

"The first two years is so much of a blur for young guys coming out of college to play pro football because the speed of the back end shocks them - the linebackers and defensive backs, how they react. It's a whole different deal, and that's what gets them.

"I've learned that you try to tell a young quarterback that you don't have to win the game - but you can't lose the game. Don't throw the other team the ball. The guys that buy into that, they're the ones that are successful in the end. They gain in confidence and become pretty good players."

Pittsburgh Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger didn't need three years to gain comfort. He took over the starter's job as a rookie for an injured Tommy Maddox in 2004, completed 66 percent of his passes for 2,621 yards and 17 touchdowns and helped lead the Steelers to the AFC Championship Game. Then the Steelers won Super Bowl XL in his second season.

"I didn't know what was going on - I just ran around and threw to open receivers," Roethlisberger said, laughing. "Honestly, I got really lucky. I had a great group of guys around me. I laugh about it, but that was part of the thing - it was not really knowing, dropping back then going, 'Uh, make a play.'

"By Year 3, you should be doing better. If you struggled your first two years, by Year 3, you should be making improvements. It's tough the first two years - even the third year can be hard."

Former NFL quarterback Vinny Testaverde, who retired in 2007 after 21 seasons in the league, points out that Roethlisberger's first-year success isn't the norm for most young NFL quarterbacks.

"I think if you rush the quarterback in there too soon, a number of things can happen," Testaverde said. "No. 1, if he doesn't play well, you can ruin his mind-set and, really, destroy his career. He won't have the confidence to be the guy that you hoped he would be. There's a lot more learning for the quarterback than there is at any other position."

Film critic

Like many quarterbacks have done, Cutler spent the offseason reviewing tons of game film. He's his worst critic.

"It's weird, because you remember every single throw and exactly what you were thinking in the situation," Cutler said. "It's really good - especially the bad ones - to look at them.

"Did you get fooled by coverage? Was it just a bad throw or were your feet wrong? . . . You get to see a lot of different things."

Broncos coach Mike Shanahan said work ethic, coupled with playing experience, usually accelerate a quarterback's improvement.

"The thing that there is no substitute for is taking snaps," Shanahan said. "That's why I think most guys start to feel comfortable in that third year. Jay's been starting actually for about a year and a half, which is good.

"I think the third year of a person playing is when they become the most comfortable with the NFL, where they feel like they have the confidence level to compete with anybody. Jay studies. He's a worker, and we've given him a lot of reps through the offseason. He's taken advantage of it."

Cincinnati Bengals quarterback Carson Palmer took advantage of a year's apprenticeship. Palmer was the first player selected in the 2003 draft. He didn't play one down during his rookie season. The next season, Palmer started 13 games, throwing for 2,897 yards with 18 touchdowns and 18 interceptions. In 2005, Palmer's third season, he helped lead the Bengals to an 11-5 record and the AFC North title and was named to the Pro Bowl.

"I think if you're in your third year of playing experience, that's when you make your strides as a quarterback and find out what kind of player you're going to be," Palmer said. "It's because you've been in different situations - third down, third and long, red zone, two-minute offense, four- minute offense . . . all the different situations. You find out what you've got as a quarterback.

"I had a great quarterback in front of me to learn from, Jon Kitna. But you also can get thrown into a situation where there isn't somebody in front of you that can give the team a better chance to win."

On the same page

Like Roethlisberger, New England's Tom Brady enjoyed early success. After leading the Patriots to a Super Bowl win in his second season, Brady did it again in his fourth season. Eli Manning, in his fourth season, helped lead the New York Giants to a Super Bowl win in February.

"The guys that are in their fourth year, this is the time that they start to move forward and start to move up the ladder of great quarterbacks in this game," former Washington Redskins quarterback Joe Theismann said.

"I think it's the fourth year. I think the first year, you learn to play professional football. The second year, you sort of get comfortable with what you're doing offensively. The third year, you get a feeling for what defenses are doing.

"It really is three years, but it's that fourth year that you point at and say, 'Now he's arrived.' "

Edwards said there's no better feeling for a coach than knowing that a young quarterback has "figured it out" to the point where they begin to think alike during a game. The coach, Edwards said, can ask his quarterback to do more things.

Cutler is trying to develop that type of think-as-one chemistry with Shanahan.

"Mike's obviously got a wealth of knowledge and he's so far ahead of me in what he knows on the football field," Cutler said. "I've got a good feel for what he's thinking in certain situations, and more important, where he wants me to go with the ball."

The play-caller on the sideline, Elway said, "knows what you do best, what you feel most comfortable in and has experience with you running the offense. As a coach, you have a better idea of what to call in certain situations.

"I'm sure that Jay, with whomever is calling the plays, will get more comfortable. You have a sense of what to call and so you can get a head start on the mental concentration, thinking about what's coming next."

The Broncos are eager to see what comes next for Cutler. He has started 21 games in the league, showing flashes of brilliance at times, along with signs of being a work in progress.

"The first two years, you're learning a new offense, new terminology, new coaches . . . it's a new speed," Cutler said. "I feel comfortable right now. I feel real comfortable."

• July 18, 2008

  6:36 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  fastnloose writes:

  I have followed this team for 45 years,this is the first year I have no feel for what this team,will or will not do.

• July 18, 2008

  8:13 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  farsidefan writes:

  They need to find their running game. If not, it will be a long year for Cutler.

• July 18, 2008

  8:28 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  WarrenJimmyBuffett writes:

  They need to find their pass rush. Cutler cannot sack the other team's QB.

• July 18, 2008

  8:29 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  CourtneyBrown98 writes:

  they gonna win the superbowl!!!

• July 18, 2008

  8:59 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  LarryB writes:

  Splendid article, Sam. Thoroughly enjoyed it.

  I believe we are watching greatness in progress . . .

• July 18, 2008

  9:31 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  TheSlinger writes:

  hope clady isnt a bust or cutler wont have a chance to be great

• July 18, 2008

  9:51 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  Dynamicdave writes:

  Cutler is our guy. His talent is obvious. fastnloose, I don't see how you can't get an idea of how good our team will be? Look at who we brought in on free agency and the draft. We have some young talent and some proven, experienced talent. We shored up our run defense with some solid players and the ones who were injured last year, are now healthy. Keep the faith, my friend. We'll be fine.

• July 19, 2008

  3:39 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  LOUIE writes:

  Shanahan is way to conservative and predictable, lacks innovative ability in calling plays. Elway was truly a great, he could get up out of the dirt and hurt you. John was dangerous out of the pocket, he thought on his feet; had a no quit attitude that never would accept defeat well. I like Cutler, he shows promise; like Elway, it's time to rebuild and replace this aging team around him to be competitive. The coach was great for Elway as John was truly a great thinker; however without Johns innovative and athletic ability, Shanahan becomes mediocre at best and plays in a manner most predictable. I don't believe they'll even make the playoffs this year, or if they do they'll be knocked off in the first round; and there is not a lot of coaching talent out there that is available. Elway and Davis brought Denver back to back superbowls along with a great defense already in place, not this so-called "mastermind", who went along for the ride on John's shoulders. Like to have moved Kubiak up instead, he should have been given a chance to prove himself here in a system he knew quite well.

• July 19, 2008

  6:40 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  R8R_H8R writes:

  1st Season) Gary Kubiak. 2nd) Mike Heimerdinger 3rd)? Who knows. The titles are meaningless anymore for this team. Mike Shanahan is doing Jay Cutler NO favors with the constant revolving door of players and coaches around him. Cutler is a supreme talent. I am thrilled he is a Denver Bronco. I just wish the team around him had anything that resembled stability.
  Woody Paige points out; Last season, the Broncos stunk like a skunk.
  They won 7 games, BARELY. They could've EASILY LOST MORE, and won only 3 games.
  "Gone from last year's stinkorama are both coordinators, the general manager (in title only), the original No. 1 running back, the previous leading wide receiver, defensive linemen and backs and linebackers, the punter and the kicker "
  The point here is, management is making it HARDER for Jay Cutler to succeed. Well, management, and players like J-walker, B-marshall, and T-Henry, who all should've been cornerstones of this offense this season.

• July 19, 2008

  10:05 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  hdfresh writes:

  I do agree that Shanahan is predictable. 1st and 2nd downs are always runs. If they don't pick up the 1st down than 3rd down is going to be a pass. He doesn't have the agressive play call mentality. Once Denver builds up a pretty good lead than he plays real conservative while the other team comes back to beat Denver. Shanahan needs to leave the offensive call playing to the coordinator.

• July 19, 2008

  10:42 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  gmo80 writes:

  I totally agree with LOUIE. We lost alot when Kubiak moved on and I never thought I would say that when he was a fresh faced kid holding the clipboard for Elway. BTW, Elway, thanks for the 2 championships but please stay off of our TV screens. I know that sounds harsh, but its time to go away. I think this must be the 50th "3rd year" story about Cutler this off season. The Broncos have gone from interesting and a good team to really boring and horrible in the last several years. Get your #@*% together...

• July 19, 2008

  11:28 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  dirkle writes:

  Dear Sam:

  Wit & wisdom from the soon-to-be-unemployed Herm Edwards?

  Even the vast majority of KC fans now think he is a fraud and a joke. (If you don't believe me check out the discussion boards @ the KCStar.) - Chef fans have been trying to get rid of both Herm and even more so their awful GM Carl Peterson for the last 2 years, and are seriously considering organizing Arrowhead BOYCOTTS for this season to get Clark Hunt's attention.

  Sam, I know you have a job to do like all of us and you need quotes for copy, but HERM EDWARDS pontificating on Jay Cutler??
  Please.

• July 19, 2008

  11:42 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  fastnloose writes:

  Louie, that system Kubiak was brought up in, was Shanahan's.Also dear Sam, Herm Edwards is the Clint Hurdle of Kansas City.He is considered glueless by most of the community.Great guy,wonderful cheerleader,fails miserably on the XX's and O's.

• July 19, 2008

  11:58 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  Brain writes:

  I agree with fastnloose, this team is fairly unknown; the defense has a lot of different players that might do well and might not; our d-line is iffy, linebackers could be good but I doubt great, John Lynch may be too old but again he may still have another year left in him. The offense’s running game is questionable but the Broncos seem to come up with one every year no matter who we have; it is obvious that Henry was not going to get it done due to smoking pot. Cutler should do well but Clady is a rookie and his position is very important for Cutler to be successful; Brandon Marshall is likely to miss some games because he seems not able to grow-up. All this adds up to questions; I hope it all comes together, it can but its hard to tell at this point.

• July 19, 2008

  12:02 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  Brain writes:

  BTW, it was inevitable that Kubiak would be a head coach somewhere and he got his chance in Houston (his hometown), the time was not right for him as head coach here, damn.

• July 19, 2008

  12:56 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  Spider writes:

  WHAT WERE THEY THINKING!!!!! I can't believe that the Titans and the Cards took the QB's from Texas and USC before taking Jay. Say what you want about Shanny, but if I was a betting man I bet he would have picked Jay if he was to have drafted ahead of those orginizations.

• July 19, 2008

  1:05 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  Brockage writes:

  He'll do fine IF they can protect him -- that problem is what doomed number 16 -- he never had time to set up, and though it worked for Fran Tarkenton, the modern NFL is no place for a scrambler now, gunslinger or not.

• July 19, 2008

  2:13 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  JSpicoli writes:

  I think the DEN problems stem from some years of bad FA pickups, and losing some offensive weapons. No more great RB with Rod Smith outside. Cutler looks like the QB to use, with upside, but what else you got? On offense, not much. ok, Marshall is something, but that is it, and that guy has issues.

  D is weaker that previous years too. Alot of great players gone. Coach leaving reality. Rebuild time coming. Denver will have sub-par year.

• July 19, 2008

  3:07 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  jugdish writes:

  Anyone who not know Broncos now rebuilding not paying attention.
  How do you rebuild? OFFENSE: Draft 1st round quarterback. Cutler. Check. Draft 1st round tackle. Clady. Check. Begin build receiving corps. Check. Build offensive line for future. Harris, Holland, Kuper, Lichtensteiger. Check. Next. Find star running back. Running back depth is already there. DEFENSE: Find star corners. Check. Have CB depth. Check. Fast aggressive line backers. Close with DJ, Boss and Koutovides/Webster. Good depth too. Defensive line has future solid starters in Crowder and Thomas. Other young guys much too prove. Safety also need attention. Expect future draft to focus on defensive line, safety, running back and jut maybe more linebacker. Team take time to build. It even harder when team go 7-9 and draft middle of pack. Much easier when team go 4-12 and draft 5 or 6. Get best impact player. Broncos rarely draft there because they good team with good coach and owner. Fan not understand that not understand the game.

• July 19, 2008

  5:39 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  Dynamicdave writes:

  jugdish, love the Tarzan talk, very funny. I agree with you. Some of the guys who write in are constantly whining and talking "glass half empty" crap. I mean, ALL THE TIME! I call them "bandwagon fans". I agree, we have the talent. If we gel as we should, we will be a tough team to beat. Everyone pissed and moaned about how we struggled last year, but they tend to forget that we lost players because of injuries, who played key positions. Nobody seems to remember that. We have better depth, so should someone go down, someone else is there to do a respectable job. Our defense is much improved. Our offense has some great young talent. JSpicoli thinks that Marshall is our only WR? Sheesh, what team are you watching?. Stokley isn't any good??? Eddie Royal (who has great hands and runs a 3.9) is a bust??? Hillis is a pathetic FB and stunk for the Razorbacks??? Selvin Young should retire??? Man, you need to read up on your team, before you get some cheese with your whine. What you sounded like is that Denver should just stay at home and mail the score in? Me, I'll be at my Bronco bar in Las Vegas, drinking with my friends and rooting my team on. The thing is, I actually believe they will have a great season. I leave the whining to the Raider fans.

• July 19, 2008

  10:42 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  Justin_Credible writes:

  9 and 15 - Cutler's record in the NFL... hardly anything to be proud of much less all the misplaced adulation on this message board. His record speaks for itself... He's a loser.

  Unlike his predecessor who went 40 and 17... I hope everybody's real happy Cutler took over. NO PLAYOFFS and a LOSING record again this year - guaranteed.

• July 19, 2008

  11:22 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  Dynamicdave writes:

  Justin_Credible, sorry bro, but the only thing I guarantee is that your a moron. Go home to your Raider blog.

• July 20, 2008

  2:35 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  LOUIE writes:

  Fastnlosse, not totally true. Elway and Kubiak were very close, John was allowed more free reign and wasn't predictable because he had the latitude to set the tempo. John would often open up his first play with a long bullet, just to let the other team know the gun was there, you don't see that with other QB's that Shanahan coached. It's because John was extremely capable in changing plays and doing his own calls at the line. Shanahan never allows that latitude with his other QB's, thus he is extremely predictable and often sits conservative on a lead which has often caused the team to lose games. Elway was unchained after Reeves left, Shanahan rode high on John' great instincts to pull off plays John wanted or was comfortable with. You'll never see Shanahan give up that much control to a QB again.

• July 20, 2008

  8:51 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  DenverBroncosFan writes:

  I think Cutler was not a problem for us last year even though he was suffering for diabetes. In my opinion, our offense has been hampered by tow things since Elway left. One, we haven't had a dominating offensive line. Two, until Cutler we haven't had a quarterback that can make all the throws.

  Shanahan has been successful when he has the whole chessboard to work with. Brian Griese couldn't throw long or hard after he injured his shoulder, and Jake Plummer wasn't accurate and couldn't throw over the middle. Cutler can make all the throws and has a rocket arm.

  Now that Shanahan has all the chess pieces, I think the game plans will improve.

• July 20, 2008

  10:36 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  Justin_Credible writes:

  Dynamic Dave,

  First, let us take a quick look of who is calling who a moron.

  There is a distinct difference in both spelling and meaning of "your" and "you're" - you might want to take the time to learn what a homonym is and when these two words should be used.

  - "your" is possessive and denotes ownership/possession (i.e. your simple little mind, your limited verbal and writing skills, etc.)

  - "you're" is a contraction of "you" and "are" (i.e. you're an idiot, you're an imbecile, YOU'RE a moron, etc.)

  OK, now that we have that straight, in response to "your" directive. The Raiders blow, too and won't have a winning record either.

  Class Dismissed.

• July 20, 2008

  11:13 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  fastnloose writes:

  Biggest intangible that know one can put a finger on, until well into the season,is the character of this team.More tallented teams fail in this area,than you can care to remember.Marshall,is a great illustration of my point.When I listen to Rod Smith complain about effort and lack of preparation,I get a little nervous.

• July 20, 2008

  12:59 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  Dynamicdave writes:

  Justin_Credible, you're still a moron. If you think correcting a spelling error gets you off the hook, you're sadly mistaken. When one man thinks Jay Cutler is a loser and most everyone on this blog doesn't, it tells me all I need to know about you. You're an idiot. I was in a hurry and just typed. You are in a delusional state to think that Cutler isn't a good QB. He doesn't have a Terrell Davis to work with, or Ed McCaffrey, or Rod Smith. Our defense stunk last year because of injuries and such, so our field position was always horrible. Elway had the benefit of good field position, much of the time as well as talent around him to cushion his stats. Now, with that said, Elway was still a great QB. Will Cutler be the next Elway? Too early to say. Just as it's premature to call him a loser, as you did. That was a stupid, unfounded remark. Marino, never, in his entire career, won a Superbowl. Does that make him a loser? Hardly. The only one who is a loser is someone who spits out unfounded remarks, like yours.

• July 20, 2008

  5:43 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  mike88p writes:

  Dirkle, you are so right, who cares about herm edwards, guy is a flop, hope they keep him around for many more years so we can keep beating the chiefs; am worried about shanny though too, last year he was not on top of his game - hey by resorting to shenanigans to beat the rayders, it just pointed out that we almost lost the darn game but for cheating - what's gonna happen this year after they stocked up on all that talent, and we..... what have we done this offseason; shoot. i hope that shanny is less worried about his hair color this season, and more on the game plan. Go Broncos!!

• July 20, 2008

  6:29 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  localyokal writes:

  There are some really well thought out, lucid points posted on this message board. I'm a homer and I gotta go with CourtneyBrown98, "they goona win the superbowl."

• July 20, 2008

  7:41 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  bigshaq316 writes:

  The problem last year was the O and D lines. Its hard to win if you cant protect the QB or get pressure on the other teams QB. We made so moves to fix the problems and hopefully everything works out.

• July 20, 2008

  7:46 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  bigshaq316 writes:

  I mean we made SOME moves to fix the problems. please dont get mad and try to correct my errors like justin_Credible.

• July 20, 2008

  8:08 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  Dynamicdave writes:

  Ha, thanks, bigshaq316. Yeah, it's a drag to have to read someone correcting your spelling to cover their lack of knowledge of the game, or better yet, their ability to come up with a logical argument. Hey I'm the 1st to point out or discuss the flaws of our beloved Broncos. But to call Cutler a loser tells me he doesn't know squat. Like you said, we had problems with our O and D line. That problem, in my books, has been answered. We had a lot of injuries, one, being the loss of Nalen for the season. Many of the potential starters have a year in our system now, so they should be more comfortable. Our D-line suffered injuries, plus we had a couple of them who are now gone. Boss will help. Abdullah is healthy again, so he can help relieve Lynch, if needed. Dre' Bly has a year under us , also. True, the defensive scheme is being changed, but it is being changed to where the players are happier, more comfortable with it. We have some hungry, young, WR's and RB/FB's. Who isn't jacked up for this season? Oh, I forgot..... Justin_Credible.....

• July 21, 2008

  5 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  VegasBroncosFan writes:

  Dynamicdave...

  Where is there a Broncos bar in Vegas???
  Would love to contribute.....
  Please let me know thanks, Mike

  poker4alivin@yahoo.com is my email if u wanna send an email, thnx bro-

• July 21, 2008

  10:21 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  Jar74 writes:

  Its the fans money that needs to go towards the baby-sitting of denver athletes like marshall, melo and now cutler, after his awful treatment towards fans at bronco fanfare--blowing off a special needs kid, leaving early, staying on your cell phone the whole time and just having a bad attitude is not worth seeing cutler grow as an athlete, till he grows up as a man, he isn't worth it at all, if he doesnt produce this year he needs to go and shame on milke shanahan for defending his players TOO MUCH recently, They are grown men, it is a part of his job but its not his whole job, they need to stand up and speak for themselves, a lot of people are growing dissappointed with shanahan lately because of it. GROW UP CUTLER, MARSHAL AND MELO, if not, Denver is better off without you.

• July 21, 2008

  10:30 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  Jar74 writes:

  Its hard being a QB in denver because of who we compare every quarter back to. we are very hard on any QB that comes here but then again I do not want cutler to be the next elway, after he blew off an autistic kid at fanfare I don't want him to be a bronco

• July 21, 2008

  10:47 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  Dynamicdave writes:

  VegasBroncosFan, I emailed you a listing. There also used to be Andy Caps, but I don't know if they are even open anymore. They used to be on Decatur.

• July 21, 2008

  10:52 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  Dynamicdave writes:

  Jar74, where did you hear this about Cutler? I'm not saying it didn't happen, but I have read nothing about it? Is this something that you actually witnessed, or is this "word of mouth"? It doesn't sound like something Cutler would do. He has kept his nose clean in the NFL as far as know. Any info is greatly appreciated.

• July 21, 2008

  11:01 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  Dynamicdave writes:

  Might I add, while I'm at it, he is swarmed by people at fanfare, so isn't it possible that he couldn't see everybody and maybe it was an unfortunate oversight? And leaving early, who is to say he didn't have other obligations in his busy life that he had to attend to? I'm not trying to make excuses for what he may or may not have done, but don't crucify him unless you know ALL the facts. It just doesn't strike me as something an athlete like Jay, would do? Also, though, remember the NBA strike? All of the athletes refused to play for charity. Hell, they make more money for 1 game on injured reserve then most typical Americans make in a year. I don't watch basketball, anymore.

• July 23, 2008

  12:10 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  angryman1n writes:

  Why doesn't the poll have a "No. The has never WON!" option?

• July 23, 2008

  11:57 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  Dynamicdave writes:

  BECAUSE THIS ISN'T A RAIDERS POLL!!!!!!!!!!

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