Schaffer, Udall spar over energy
By Ed Sealover, Rocky Mountain News
Published July 15, 2008 at 12:05 a.m.
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Photo by Darin Mcgregor / The Rocky
Supporters of Democratic Rep. Mark Udall cheer on their candidate. Udall said the way to solve problems is to work together rather than to continue partisan divisions in Congress.
Photo by Tim Hussin / The Rocky
Republican Bob Schaffer's backers show their support. Schaffer said the nation needs all forms of energy and "nothing should be taken off the table."
Bob Schaffer came out swinging Monday.
After weeks of being dubbed "Big Oil Bob" in ads and taking criticism for his association with disgraced lobbyist Jack Abramoff, Schaffer turned the tables on his Democratic opponent, U.S. Rep. Mark Udall, at their first debate in the race for U.S. Senate.
Schaffer accused Udall of flip-flopping on the Iraq war and delaying decisions critical to energy development.
"I do not believe constant delay is a strategy for America's energy independence," Schaffer said of Udall's reluctance to allow faster oil-shale development.
Udall often responded by saying the way to solve problems is to work together rather than to continue partisan divisions in Congress.
Near the end of the debate, Schaffer's supporters began laughing at Udall for repeating the comment, but Udall supporters said their candidate was far more composed.
Schaffer, a former congressman from Fort Collins, also chided Boulder residents in the crowd for interrupting the debate several times, drawing loud protests in response.
Emblematic of the tone of the day for each candidate was a question over whether officials need to speed the extraction of oil shale in the state. Udall, of Eldorado Springs, said that while research is under way to determine the potential benefits of oil shale, Colorado should not be turned into a "national sacrifice zone."
Schaffer responded by saying: "Ladies and gentleman, that is part of the reason I'm running for Congress . . . We need (all forms of energy), and nothing should be taken off the table."
The hour-long debate in front of about 800 people at the Wildlife Experience was the first between the congressional veterans looking to succeed retiring Republican Sen. Wayne Allard.
It followed months of attack ads and critical news conferences that came as polls showed Udall turning a dead heat into a 10-point lead in the race.
Schaffer campaign manager Dick Wadhams said the longtime officeholder, known in the past for his aggressive campaigns, waited until the first debate to unleash his new accusations because this is the time people begin following the campaign closely. The style will continue over the next four months, Wadhams said.
In a moment illustrative of his new aggressive style, Schaffer at one point read a resolution stating that Iraq had been a state sponsor of terrorism and failed to end its weapons-of-mass-destruction program.
He asked who agreed with it, drawing raised hands from his supporters and hisses from Udall's.
Schaffer then revealed that he was reading a resolution introduced by Udall in 2002, a move that longtime Republican activist Kendal Unruh called "the best political checkmate I've ever seen in a debate."
Udall campaign spokeswoman Taylor West called the move a distortion of the record, saying the resolution was one to withhold congressional authorization for attacking Iraq until all diplomatic means were exhausted.
As Udall supporters booed or heckled Schaffer, he asked more than once for respect from his "friends from Boulder," prompting several to yell that Udall had support from places other than just his home county.
Udall responded: "When I serve in the United States Senate, I'm not going to pick out one community or another and stereotype that community."
Reporter Lynn Bartels contributed to this article.
He said/he said
Here's an issue-by-issue look at what the U.S. Senate candidates had to say:
On whether increasing or decreasing oil companies' taxes will help the economy
* Schaffer: "When you cut tax rates on the producers in America, we actually increase tax revenue dramatically . . . We ought to send people to Washington who have an economic appreciation that high tax policy suppresses the ingenuity of the American people."
* Udall: "When you look at where the economy is today and when you look at where the oil and gas prices are today, I don't think anybody believes the oil and gas companies need more tax breaks today."
On what must be done in Iraq
* Schaffer: "The war is not Iraq. Iraq is one battlefront in a larger war" on jihadists. But we can celebrate victory in Iraq, he said, when the Iraqi military can defend itself, Iranian pressure on the country is decreased and the country is close to self-sufficiency on elections, police force and security force.
* Udall: Said the U.S. must make a "responsible and honorable" exit from Iraq and reinvest in the soldiers in this country. "I think the risk of staying in Iraq in this open-ended commitment . . . is far, far riskier. I have faith in the Iraqi people that we can turn this over to them."
On the proposed expansion of the Pinon Canyon Maneuver Area
* Schaffer: "The Army . . . has not made a compelling case" for expansion. However, we should study whether such an expansion is justified.
* Udall: Reiterated that he is opposed to the Army's use of eminent domain, and has worked in Congress to slow it down. "We have to be very, very careful about supporting the people in the southeast part of Colorado."
On health care reform
* Schaffer: Supports tax credits to reward people with healthy lifestyles, allowing competition in insurance markets between states and diverting money saved on state welfare programs to health care for low-income children.
* Udall: Opposes a government-sponsored solution but supports expanding the State Children's Health Insurance Program, assisting lower-income folks who can't pay their premiums and ensuring that insurance companies can't discriminate vs. customers.
Talking points
The best moments from Monday's U.S. Senate debate between Republican Bob Schaffer and Democrat Mark Udall
* Best zinger: Schaffer was touting his party's fiscal conservatism saying, "In '96, we reduced taxes on . . . " when a Udall supporter, to much laughter, yelled out, "The rich!"
* Best post-debate zinger: Lisa Van Bramer, a doctor and die-hard Schaffer fan, approached Schaffer's campaign manager, Dick Wadhams, after the debate.
"I feel an ethical obligation to offer my services to Mark Udall after the beating he just took," she said.
* Best left jab: After one Udall answer that Schaffer found particularly galling, Schaffer said, "That's why I'm running for office." But, as Udall pointed out, Schaffer's almost always running for office. Schaffer's name has been on the ballot in nine of the last 11 elections, including a failed U.S. Senate run in 2004.
* Best scissors-and-Sharpie team: Schaffer's supporters easily won the sign war with a variety of homemade signs, including "Senator Bob" and "Students for Schaffer." A contingent of Schaffer supporters waved "U Turn Udall" signs at various times when Udall spoke.
* Best unity moment: Schaffer fans jumped to their feet and agreed with Udall on one point, when the Democrat praised American troops.
* Best understatement: Schaffer welcomed the Green Party's U.S. Senate candidate, Bob Kinsey, who attended although he wasn't invited to participate in the debate.
"I'm glad you're here Bob," Schaffer told Kinsey.
No doubt. Most politicos believe Green Party votes siphon support from Democrats.
* Best totally unbiased critique: Udall's wife, Maggie Fox, said her husband "hands down" won the debate. "I think he was true, straightforward and honest," she said.
Likewise, Maureen Schaffer thought her husband nailed it. "I think he was great. He was phenomenal," she said.
Does she ever tell him he didn't do great?
"I tell him that all the time," she said with a laugh. "But I never have to tell him that after a debate."
* Best Twilight Zone moment: It was startling how much Schaffer praised Democratic Gov. Bill Ritter for Ritter's leadership on drilling on the Roan Plateau.
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July 15, 2008
7:14 a.m.
Suggest removal
danirobi writes:
Froward- Can you explain to me why the Democratic controlled Congress has a 9% approval rating? Why 67% of Americans support drilling for oil and mining for shale in this country? Why does Democratic Congress keep ignoring the pleas of the American people that voted for them?
Explain to me why in San Diego, liberals are against San Diego Electric from putting down transmissions lines so they can start you wind power as a source of alternative energy?
July 15, 2008
7:14 a.m.
Suggest removal
cdmdenver writes:
WHATS THE QUICKEST WAY TO CORRUPT A PERSON??
ELECT THEM!! EVERY POLITICIAN THAT GETS ELECTED
CHANGES THE MOMENT YOU ELECT THEM-GUARANTEED.
THEY FORGET WHO ELECTED THEM, THEY HAVE THEIR
OWN AGENDA, AND THEY ONLY PURPORT TO CARE,
LOOK AT "TAX RITTER".
July 15, 2008
7:25 a.m.
Suggest removal
ghoax writes:
More OIL MORE COAL! Schaffer Rocks and is thinking clearly. how about the dems go into their earth meditation chamber while the rest of us do what's needed to get our resources working for US. The left is and always has been the enemy of progress, liberty and freedom, despite their adoption of those names to fool you. I am beginning to believe that liberalism is a mental disorder, its not even high math to understand supply and demand, it isn't rocket science to figure out that we don't have control over the increasing demands of India and China, heck , the Republicans saw this well over a decade ago as democrats continued their environmentalist whacko blockade against US getting our resources and having cheap domestic energy. What the left wants you to believe is that oil is bad...when OIL, natural gas production is the answer...and those who support the oil industry are working for us! For those of you who don't understand, see that's a good thing. I'm real tired of the smug elitist liberal that has trouble with math and can only parrot what they're told to "feel". we need clear thinkers and that doesn't come from lefties who are incapable of clear thought because they are overwhelmed with emotion about dirt. Supporting oil and gas will lead to the energy sources of the future...get it yet? Enough is enough and we can't afford any more liberal elitist environmental whacko appeasement.
July 15, 2008
7:52 a.m.
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raycspring writes:
I attended the debate.
Schaffer tried to take credit for the Clinton years' prosperity, while blaming the Bush budget deficits on the Democrats. He failed to explain how his trickle down economics has failed to generate anywhere near enough tax revenue to balance the budget. He rejected any health care reform.
He snidely made reference to the fact that his friend and indicted neocon comrade (Tom Delay) is no longer in Washington.
He rightly acknowledged that the weak dollar has caused the oil price explosion, but failed to note that this has happened as a direct consequence of Bush administration policies.
It is clear in my mind that reason he voted to go war in Iraq was to make money. He clearly does not care for human life. Neither forced abortions in the Marianas Island factories, nor innocent Iraqi dead, nor dead American soldiers will stop his greed for money or power.
I was saddened that his work to procur illegal oil contracts in Kurdistan did not receive mention.
July 15, 2008
7:57 a.m.
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LOUIE writes:
When it comes to these two, pick your evil. Both have big money concerns in thier pocket. Seems we the people are going to be the ones who get to chose our poison.
July 15, 2008
8:12 a.m.
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danirobi writes:
Froward- I'm a Republican not a "retardlican" :o) Though I live and work in DC, I'm angry at both sides, Democrat or Republican. You have the Republican party that promised less government in 2004 and look what happened. You have the Democrats that promised to "lower gas" prices and yet gas prices have gone up almost $2.00 since they took over in 2006. The whole use it or lose it deal is stupid, considering oil companies are still conducting surveys on the land, or the lease that they have been given haven't produced anything ie dry wells.
I used to work for that lovely agency that helped safe the Bald Eagle, so I know all about that one too. It wasn't environmentalist that saved the Bald Eagle, it was conservation.
July 15, 2008
8:17 a.m.
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danirobi writes:
also here is an interesting article from the Washington Post regarding the Iraq pullout...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/...
July 15, 2008
8:35 a.m.
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BBFanatic writes:
did anyone happen to see the EFCA people (waldo's) on the way in?
I think Schaffer did a fabulous job. It was the Udall supporters that were acting like children.
July 15, 2008
8:45 a.m.
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bobbyb writes:
Did Udall's supporters really hiss and boo?? Who does that? Did he have to bring in Boulder Middle School students for support? The behavior of his supporters speaks volumes about the candidate himself.
July 15, 2008
10:05 a.m.
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jacka writes:
Mark Udall supports employee free choice, I just hope he means real employee free choice.
YES on Amendment 47 for real employee free choice.
Mark Udall says "we'll need revenue enhancements.", that is code for increased taxes on all Coloradans.
A taxpayer voting for Udall is like a chicken voting for Col. Saunders.
July 15, 2008
10:08 a.m.
Suggest removal
RainbowWarrior writes:
Why would anyone want to continue to use centralized energy distribution systems controlled by corporations that only care about profit and sending you a monthly bill, when you can buy a decentralized renewable system for a fixed cost and investment and have free energy for the life of a home? To down size the alternative system needed, just build or remodel a better home or commercial building that has sustainable design elements that have been available to anyone with half a brain for 40 years now!
In just a few years as we go down the path of more expensive energy each and every year, you'll be able to drive down any street in America and see who the smart people are who are getting a return on their investment vs. the morons that think they can promote drilling to save their failed conservative, republican agenda.
If your looking for a new home, wouldn't you pay a little more for the one that costs less to heat and cool?
What did you pay in utility bills 10 years ago?
What are you willing to pay 10 years from now?
You can freeze your energy costs at today's prices, if you can let go of the bad information that some of the trolls here would have you believe. Set yourself free, produce your own energy and live within your means. Even if you sell after your renewable energy investment, your home will sell faster and for more! This will become more and more obvious in the near future, just wait and see...
July 15, 2008
10:11 a.m.
Suggest removal
bobbyb writes:
Big_D-- the other option is to increase supply.
Froward-- In your list of causes of high oil prices you forgot the fact that our politicians(both R & D) have given in to the Big Enviro lobby and closed off millions and millions of acres of land for development, which has decreased supply. You also forgot to mention China and India, which are both using up resources at a faster rate than any other country.
Also, Karl Rove is on Fox News pretty much everyday.
July 15, 2008
10:14 a.m.
Suggest removal
RJS07 writes:
We need EVERYTHING! More oil, refining, more wind, more solar, more nuclear. While there are those that would simply prefer we go live in cave, I'd suggest they go there first. Meanwhile, the rest of us can investigate ALL solutions. There are no quick fixes.
July 15, 2008
10:23 a.m.
Suggest removal
SPUD writes:
It was great when Schaffer quoted the Iraq resolution and asked who supported it and was booed. Then he indicated the resolution was written and sponsored by Udall. Udall is such a PHONEY!
July 15, 2008
10:47 a.m.
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jaymoveonorg writes:
rainbowwarrior,
I wish I was rich as you where I could go out and get a $20k or better loan to upgrade my home with solar panels and wind power. Then I wish I could go out and buy a new Toyota Prius ($20k). Right now I am stuck with my 10 year old Nissan Altima that is paid off. Most Americans do not have money just laying around like you do.
Big_D,
If Clinton did not veto the bill to allow us to drill in ANWR back in 1998 we would have oil coming out of there right now. Yes, it will take 5 to 10 years to get oil off shore and from ANWR but would you rather just put all our eggs in one basket and hope that renewable energy will be able to meet all of our needs in 10 years?
I just wish you and others would at least be open to access all of our resources. I am all for renewable energy but at the same time I am open to nuclear, oil, coal and gas too. Why are you so stubborn and willing to gamble that renewable energy will meet our future needs even at the expense that if it does not the American economy will collapse.
July 15, 2008
11:53 a.m.
Suggest removal
whunt writes:
ghoax wrote..."Enough is enough and we can't afford any more liberal elitist environmental whacko appeasement."
Wow! How many talking-point punchwords can you fit into one sentence? ghoax is the leader in the clubhouse with 5. Hey ghoax, your posts are dripping with unoriginality. Why don't you turn off the Fox news for a few days and try to form an opinion of your own, using your own words. I bet you can't. Idiot.
July 15, 2008
12:44 p.m.
Suggest removal
mytwosense writes:
Schaffer: "When you cut tax rates on the producers in America, we actually increase tax revenue dramatically."
It is mathematically impossible for tax revenue to "dramatically increase" by cutting taxes! Anyone who buys into this con statement is just flat-out deluded.
By the way, I assume by "producers," Sweatshop Schaffer means the rich. Guess the rest of us schmucks toiling away for the "producers" are parasites!
Let them eat cake, indeed.
July 15, 2008
5:53 p.m.
Suggest removal
brad.lowe writes:
I also attended the debate. What a circus! Schaffer's reading of Udall's resolution was hilarious. But the most important item not even brought up in the debate is Udall's union ties, and his support for the Employee Free Choice Act, as the Waldos out front were trying to draw attention to. This bill is a disaster, and would kill small business in CO!
July 15, 2008
6:39 p.m.
Suggest removal
dandelion writes:
Republicans vs. Democrats could be much more easily phrased: propaganda vs. math and science, propaganda vs. engineering, propaganda vs. good judgment...
I don't have enough time to address your sophomoric "arguments", but remember this: your days are numbered. I'd vote for my cat over Bob Schaffer (yet another Republican whose hypocrisy precedes him), John McCain or any other lying facade for Big Oil, and millions of Americans agree with me. Do you even realize how baseless, pointless and outright ludicrous your so-called arguments are? I LOVE how Republicans--I'm trying hard here not to resort to "retardicans" although I love the jab--have one itty-bitty statistic to swing around...the 67% of Americans unhappy that we're not drilling more to sate our desperate, instant-gratification and consumer-culture driven thirst for oil. Yet you are DROWNING in absolutely concrete FACTS from Democrats willing to do a little research on how it all really works negating everything Republicans have been saying all along, exposing them for who they really are.
Go Udall. Go Obama. Go ANYONE but another Red White House and legislatively-compromised Congress. The time has come to paint the White House blue, and send the educationally-disadvantaged hypocrites packing.
July 15, 2008
7:35 p.m.
Suggest removal
Brain writes:
dandelion; you should start packing then! Reviewing the posts on here sure illuminates where the hate comes from (not conservatives)!
July 16, 2008
10:17 a.m.
Suggest removal
bwforaccuracy writes:
Unfortunately, in this forum, people forget basic economics. The left implies corporations are "greedy profiteers" with no souls. They are right about corporations competing in a monopoly. In Communist Russia and East Germany there was only one kind of car, one kind of soap, etc. The company dis what it wants and people had no choice. I experienced that level of service at the Department of Motor Vehicles in Colorado trying to get my driver’s license. A lesson for single payer medical?
America has a COMPETITIVE Free Market. Corporations can not charge any price they want. The other five corporations down the street will figure out how to make it lower cost and price it cheaper. It is why you can buy the same type of soft serve ice cream at different prices at McDonald's, Dairy Queen, and TCBY. If you don't want to pay $4 at TCBY go to McDonald's and pay $1.50. If no one buys at TCBY because their prices are too high the store goes out of business. Unfortunately the Colorado DMV stays in business despite the poor service. In New Mexico, you pay $20 extra to a private company, get your license with no lines and great service.
The problem in energy is that our elected representatives keep putting rules and regulations that inhibit:
* drilling for oil
* mining oil shale and the oil sands
* developing a new nuclear power plant or refinery
The corporations in their effort to provide the lower cost energy we want, go to foreign dictatorships and oligarchs (Russia, Iran, Nigeria, Saudi Arabia) to pay them to get the energy out of their countries. People need to understand, energy companies are trying to get the oil and gasoline as cheap as possible to compete. Our governemnt actually drives them to fund the foreign powers who hate our "American way of life" because we won't let American companies, employing AMerican workers, develop the energy resources we want to buy.
If people are worried Big Oil companies are getting rich, you should see what the Saudi Royal Family, Vladimir Putin, the Iranian Clerical Leaders have in their palaces. Just look at what Saddam Hussein had. Each of them have all the guns and if you tried to fight that monopoly, you end up dead.
Let's elect a Senator who is smart enough to understand those complexities, and has the energy to work to improve the lives of Coloradoans. Based on the video of the debate I watched, Bob Schaffer demonstrated that kind of intelligence and energy.
Yes companies will make profits. If they don't they go out of business. If you don't like Exxon , buy down the street at the Circle K or the Q8. Those are owned by Kuwaitis. I am sure they care much more about you than those Americans from Exxon in Texas and Alaska. Don't you think the Kuwaiti rulers return some of their "Obscene" profits to the California Public Employees, the way that CALPERS gets a portion of the profits from Exxon.
Bob will be a Senator who understands basic economics.