DPS pay plan loses its luster

Obama no longer mentions once-touted, now troubled merit system

By Nancy Mitchell, Rocky Mountain News (Contact)

Published July 11, 2008 at 11:45 p.m.

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Photo by Preston Gannaway / The Rocky

After a meeting in June about the teacher pay plan, Denver Public Schools Superintendent Michael Bennet, center, talks with Alan Gottlieb of the Public Education and Business Coalition. At left is Rudy Andras, an economist and member of the citizens' group A-Plus Denver. During the meeting, the district and teachers union presented differing proposals for the future of the pay plan, known as ProComp.

Photo by Preston Gannaway / The Rocky

Kim Ursetta, president of the Denver Classroom Teachers Association, confers with union leaders about their proposal for the future of the ProComp teacher pay plan. Ursetta says the union is not encouraging a strike during the DNC.

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Comments

July 12, 2008

1:38 a.m.

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LOUIE writes:

All Denver Public Schools has to do is lower the bar some more, and they'll be fine. Problem is the bar is laying on the ground, and now they have to dig! Don't worry, the politicians have promised to fix it, the teachers will get more money and solve the problem, the union will stand up for the kids who are the crux of the problem, and the rest of us will go on wondering why little Johnny is dumber than dirt. Keep on digging! Can't blame a kid for dropping out, if you "ain't got nothing, you ain't got nothing to lose".
July 12, 2008

1:55 a.m.

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clyde writes:

So where exactly do the kids fit into this picture? Oh, they don't? Sounds like DPS business as usual. And no, Wyoming is not another country.
July 12, 2008

2:10 a.m.

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LOUIE writes:

The kids? They either drop out because they are so far behind, or they graduate high school with a diploma, showing they can function on the 8th grade level. They always come out the loser in DPS. As a parent, I had to find an alternative to DPS. They can slug it out till the cows come home; I didn't have the years to waste in my daughters education. I had to do what was in my daughter's best intrest. Thus I refused to suffer the 3 ring circus of clowns, baffoons, and fools any longer. They never listened to us parents anyway.
July 12, 2008

2:19 a.m.

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LOUIE writes:

Bennett is a smart man; he used to work for one of the brightest minds, in our nation, in the world of business. Question is can he fight against years of entrenched failure and not give up the fight? Few, if any, of his opponents could ever hold thier own in the courts of his former employer.
July 12, 2008

7:21 a.m.

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Mike846 writes:

DPS is broken beyond saving. Maybe if they didn't have to deal with illegal aliens, two languages (minimum) and political correctness, teachers could actually teach. But then along comes the NEA, a union that is going down the same road as other unions in the past, and all they're interested in is power. The power to continue their social re-engineering of kids, the power to dictate policy to administrative bodies and the power to pay off long-time members while ignoring the "apprentices" coming up until they have paid their dues and adopted the "party line". I don't blame individual teachers for this fiasco, I blame the NEA. The myth of "underpaid" teachers is shown for what it really is by some of the information above. Read it. Understand it. And keep pulling your kids out of DPS and sending them places where teachers teach and kids learn, under RULES governing performace, behavior, dress, manners and common sense. The sooner DPS collapses and the whole rotten system is rebuilt along common sense lines, the better. Mike
July 12, 2008

7:28 a.m.

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vudumom writes:

I see this as another bait and switch from a school administration. Once again the voters voted for one thing to raise money for teachers. The voters evidently believed that paying great teachers was a good idea and once again we see that the money will not go for what it was intended. I don't think anywhere on the ballot did it say vote for the school admistration to use the money for anything it wants.
Paying teachers who want to teach more money upfront is wrong. In a sense they are saying , just because you want to be a teacher and you went to college to be a teacher you should get as much money as teachers who have been there longer. What ever happened to proving yourself in a job position? Just because you graduated from college with a teaching degree, doesn't mean you will be a good teacher.
The money should be used for what it was intended for. The voters voted for it and I am sick and tired of Colorado taking money that was voted on by the voters for one specific thing and then the money is used for something else.
It's called bait and switch and it has got to stop.
July 12, 2008

8:16 a.m.

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JohnSWren writes:

"Simplify, simplify." Henry David Thoreau

Denver Public School enrollment last fall was 73,873, down from the 1976 high point of 75,551.

The current DPS drop out rate is 53%!

And except for a few bright spots like East High School, most of the students who graduate just aren't learning what they need to be good citizens and productive workers.

DPS enrollment is bound to be down again next fall with all this negative publicity, and how much is that hurting home values in Denver?

What is this costing Denver's 300,000 or so tax payers and voters? $1,170.35 million, compared to the total city budget for all other services of $1,837.14 million!

Clearly, there is a big, big problem.

Maybe it is time to try a new approach. Is anyone looking at the alternative of contracting out to a private firm? Seems to me the only ones who would object at this point would be the 4,555 Denver Public School teachers.
July 12, 2008

8:45 a.m.

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Tharpa writes:

Teachers who select DPS over other districts which pay better do so because they want the experience in an urban setting. If the experience is good, they will stay. Leadership that is unsupportive at best and hostile at worse drives good teachers to other districts. Principals on up the DPS food chain play the system for their own gain, not for the benefit of students or teachers. Proposed changes in Pro Comp -- a system that teachers and administrators know how to manimulate -- will not improve teacher retention and recruitment but will reduce the District's retirement liability. Pro Comp has only added to the paper work and red tape that teachers must endure for impossible jobs. The money would be better spent on developing competent teachers and principals and cultivating a learning community build on trust rather than intimidation and fear.
July 12, 2008

11:21 a.m.

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FreeToChoose writes:

So wait, am I hearing the Union officials correctly?
They don't want to spend more on new teachers so than can continue pumping more money into a ridiculously generous pension plan that merely rewards teachers who stay on the job for 25 years?

And they're taking the head of DPS to the woodshed simply because he's asking for more money to help attract teachers to 'hard to fill' positions and to decrease turnove among younger teachers? Who is actually looking out for the students here? Not the union, that's for sure... Mr Bennet, please don't back down!!!
July 12, 2008

11:38 a.m.

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sds writes:

Mike846, your statement about illegal immigrants is ignorant. I am a teacher, outside of Denver, that deals with many students. Our school is not testing well, but the fact of the matter is that many of our best and brightest students happen to be illegal immigrants. The far more difficult task is teaching students who are raised in families that have experienced poverty for multiple generations. These families have not been successful in school and their children catch on to the idea that it is okay not to be successful. I am sick of hearing that illegal immigrants are the problem, they are not. Their families pay property and sales taxes the same as you and I and most use fake social security cards forcing (for good reason) to pay income taxes.
By the way, most of the teachers in the districts surrounding Denver also pay into the NEA. Although, the NEA does have too much say in some districts, much of what the NEA is attempting to do is improve teaching and therefore improve student achievement. I must agree that it is too easy for miserable teachers to stay in the profession, illegal immigration has nothing to do with that.
July 12, 2008

12:56 p.m.

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BetterEducated writes:

I was interested in the statement that most of the teachers who resign do so in the first decade of employment. On that basis, DPS wants to give them more than the longer-tenured folks.
What this does is punish those who dedicated themselves to the District.
Mr. Bennett, the reason most workers don't leave after the 10-year mark is not because they're happy there. They can't afford to leave the District. Since I'm not sure you will understand this concept unless it's set forth a number of times, I will reiterate it for you here:
Workers cannot afford to leave DPS after a certain number of years.
Their investment cannot be integrated into social security or PERA. They are stuck with you.
Now, for having stayed -- you want to punish them?
For having already proven themselves to DPS, while incoming new teachers have not, you want them to make LESS?
Less than in surrounding districts, relatively less than new teachers?
You cannot be surprised that teachers are buying stencils and posterboard today.
There MUST be some way to reward the fact that Denver's Own longterm workers have already proven themselves to you. To separate the productive from the unproductive. To avoi making the sweeping public statement that Anybody New is inherently worth more than Everybody Established.
I've wanted everyone in Denver to know that, after 23 years, my husband left DPS when a classified worker came aboard and was instantly paid at a higher level than he was allowed to achieve as an existing worker. This teacher-pay issue resonates deeply with us here in Bailey. That other classified worker was unqualified - a frustrated and frustrating worker -- and left DPS within 5 years. Meanwhile, the District lost a good-natured worker who had safeguarded millions of dollars of DPS hard goods for decades of time.
The social statement DPS makes by wanting to pay newcomers more than the veteran workers is not only dishonorable and abusive. It's unjustified. Those newcomers are not going to be dedicated to the District, they're going to split ASAP just like the classified-worker dude who caused my husband to leave.
It's not the money itself that drives satisfaction in the workplace: it's appreciation. It's the ethical treatment of workers on a more general, inherent basis than DPS administration can evidently comprehend.
Try talking to a DPS rep about these issues, you'll get (a) no response and if you push it, then (b) a lawyer letter telling you to "cut your losses" and forget about 23 years of employment.
Until this ugly tax-gobbling, human-debasing creature is hammered into sand, I will tattoo these words on every thread: Wake up, DPS! Colorado was not created to give you a free ride while you continue to degrade the Queen City of the Plains.
July 12, 2008

1:12 p.m.

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fntsymtn writes:

Why not just pay teachers more (considerably more) to enter hard-to-staff positions or hard-to-serve schools? Not just some bonus gimmick, but a real difference in pay.

I wonder if you'd see more "agree" answers to these two questions:

* I would pursue the education necessary to work in a hard-to-staff position, such as math, to qualify for a 20% pay increase

* I would be interested in working in a "hard-to-serve" or high- poverty school to quality for a 20% pay increase

what about 50% for either question?

From what I can gather, based on responses to the questions in the article, and what is happening outside of Colorado, it doesn't matter what incentives are offered, the majority of teachers just don't want to teach hard-to-staff subjects or in hard-to-serve schools.

Additionally, I do not expect that the union would be all too supportive of a compensation program that pays a first year math teacher more than a 20 year history teacher, or one where a history teacher could never make as much as a math teacher with the same years of service or education and pdu's.

The bonus gimmick proposed by Mr. Bennett, unfortunately, will not encourage teachers to fill the positions where they are needed the most (as noted by their answers to the polling questions in the article) and will do nothing to help DPS get what it needs from it's teachers.
July 12, 2008

1:18 p.m.

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BetterEducated writes:

Ahem! Sorry about that. About today's article itself, this is for Nancy Mitchell:
Nancy, the highlighted column on the right side of the page makes no sense. Please back up and explain these points:
1. "The difference of $77,130 refers to the amount DPS is setting aside...for teacher to receive after retirement." WHAT? Is this a deferred comp plan? Is it this portion of the money that the union is afraid will be spent up instead? Please explain exactly the amount that will be on the teacher's paycheck: $77,218 or $77,218+$77,130?
2. Everybody knows that "bonuses" are not "salary" because they don't repeat from year to year. In the same highlighted paragraph, please explain how "bonuses awarded...under the pay plan" become "straight salary" as set forth in the next sentence. Please use real words, not DPS words like "rewards." Will the dollars paid in 2008 be repeated in 2009 or will there have to be a re-qualifying every year, i.e., is it "bonus" or is it "salary"? (Most of the shenanigans DPS pulls off on workers & the public is related to its making up words to which only it has the definition, dig at it please.)
This would give some meaning to what was intended to be the condensed version of the dispute, otherwise it's way convoluted to calculated the fourth red box: "$848 less, and $1,695 less..." than WHAT?!
You know that "devil is in the details" expression? Please get to it, teachers aren't so stupid that they would strike without a good reason. They want to make more; DPS is saying it wants to pay more; there must be a substantive argument here that your article reports but does not actually analyze IMHO. Thank you.
July 12, 2008

1:33 p.m.

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FreeToChoose writes:

BetterEducated:
You are only looking at one side of the equation!
You are looking at this soley from the teachers' perspective. Consider Mr Bennet's predicament:
He needs to fill positions that are less desireable (high poverty, special ed) and/or require skill sets that are in higher demand elsewhere in the workplace (math and science). Obviously, when supply does not meet demand, the price (in this case teachers' salaries) is too low. Mr Bennet is addressing this by raising salaries in these jobs. That is not disrespecting older workers, that is addressing the needs of his district.
Likewise for teacher retention. Nowhere in the above piece did I read that new teachers would be paid MORE than older teachers, just that the district would pay less towards tenured/older teachers' retirement and more towards younger teachers' pay, particularly in difficult to staff positions. I see nothing wrong with this. Perhaps all the teachers should be paid more in salary and far less in benefits, such as pensions, so that teachers' reimbursement more closely reflects today's marketplace for their skill set. They are smart and educated people (presumably), so they should be able to handle their own retirement plans the way most other workers manage their 401Ks and Roth IRAs.
In short, it is ridiculous to set aside so much for benefits when we need to pay teachers more NOW.
July 12, 2008

1:34 p.m.

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kailadevorah writes:

In his research, Professor Andy Hargreaves of Boston College found that demoralization, rather than monetary concerns, was driving teachers away from high-poverty schools. Publicly blaming teachers of the poor when their students do not perform at the level of more affluent peers, which is an inevitable outcome of the No Child Left Behind legislation, causes psychological and career damage not alleviated by a (small) wad of cash. Eliminate NCLB and its draconian mandates against teachers and the teacher recruitment/retention problem will shrink.
July 12, 2008

1:47 p.m.

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BetterEducated writes:

Bobba, your points are well taken. If the article had been more illuminating about exactly how these dollars would work, it would be an easier subject to discuss :-) However, my instinctive reaction is that DPS teachers should be assigned where they are needed; if this is in low-calibre locations, that's the way it is.
Not only is it unclear to me what impact ProComp (presently or as proposed) is or is not having on the pension mechanism, it's also unclear to me how teachers get placed into schools, and whether this is a managerial decision or one that is controlled by the worker or its union representative.
Many of the issues teachers bargain over do not arise in the DPS classified setting, where it is much easier to observe the raw disparity in power between Workers and Dictators --um, I mean, Administrators. :-)
July 12, 2008

2:07 p.m.

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fntsymtn writes:

That's an interesting leap you've made, Kail, regarding RATL. I didn't get from the professor's papers that he was saying that NCLB was the problem, but rather the implementation at the school district level to raise achievement was the problem.

Of course, there are no data in the Data-driven to Distraction commentary (I presume you are referring to this in your post) so it is difficult to quantify (and verify) the statement "In it's first two years, student achievement at project schools has risen steadily, and, in almost three-quarters of them, strikingly so." So we'll just have to take the professor at his word.
July 12, 2008

3:50 p.m.

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kailadevorah writes:

FNTS etc. My reference was to a 2006 study reported in Educational Leadership. In it the professor was referring directly to the impacts of NCLB on teacher recruitment, retention, and job satisfaction. I am not familiar with Data Driven to Distraction or RATL. I am, however, intimately familiar with NCLB punishments, and I don't know if $1000 or $2900 or $14000 (the signing bonus paid by North Carolina for teachers in hard to staff positions) is enough to offset the soul- and career-killing outcomes of choosing to teach the children of the poor--and whether we find it PC or not, low-performing and high-poverty schools are synonymous. Is it any wonder that teachers are not flocking to schools that are likely to be closed for failing to raise test scores? What is the actual supply of teachers with thick enough skins to withstand an ongoing barrage of comments such as those made by Mike486 and Louie above?
July 12, 2008

4:23 p.m.

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Coco writes:

kaila - you are correct. The incessant blame game, name calling, derision, disrespect, and general ugly nature of Mike's & Louie's comments is a lot to expect anyone to stomach. I'd like to know what Mike & Louie do for a living.
July 12, 2008

4:54 p.m.

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FreeToChoose writes:

I could care less if a new math teacher is paid more than a 20-year history teacher. If the skills the math teacher possesses are in higher demand and that's what it takes to fill these positions with qualified teachers, then the math teachers SHOULD be paid more. Mr Bennet's proposals are reasonable and reflect the needs of the marketplace.

And no wonder young teachers leave when so much of the compensation is dedicated to retirement benefits! A young person who needs higher compensation NOW can't wait 25 years to be paid what they are worth! But that's how the pay system is stacked and the Union will fight tooth and nail to defend it because they merely assume the people of Denver will pay the younger teachers more AND fund their fat retirements. If teachers wanted to be paid what they're worth, we would pay them all far more now and convert all the teachers to 401Ks so we can slash the retirement benefits by at least half... but do you think that will ever be agreeable to a union??? Ha! They want more now AND more later, but they can't have it both ways.

If they want the fat benefits, then they SHOULD be paid less now... that's their choice... but that still doesn't solve how to pay more to teachers whose skill sets demand more money in the marketplace!!!

It just leaves the students high and dry... and struggling with math.
July 12, 2008

6:18 p.m.

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fntsymtn writes:

I do not know of any "punishments" outlined in NCLB outside of the realm of funding for a district or school, but blaming NCLB for inappropriate measures taken in a school, district or union of peers is exceptionally misleading. I've seen other studies (google:Why do teachers resign) that indicate that NCLB factors are not the primary reason teachers leave the profession.

Additionally, it is not the cause or fault of NCLB that school districts and schools in general have been incompetent at devising programs to meet standards set by the government. The real problem does not lie within NCLB but within the schools and school districts themselves who are charged with educating our students and establishing a desirable workplace. Ignoring that reality and placing all the blame on a "draconian" accountability system only exacerbates the problem.

NCLB cannot and does not (nor should be expected to) have any impact on the "soul- and career-killing outcomes of choosing to teach the children of the poor". If teaching at hard-to-serve schools is a career-killing experience, the responsibility lies within the education system (not the accountability measures it's held to) to remedy that situation. Perhaps the NEA and other teaching unions should openly praise and reward (rewards teachers appreciate whatever they are) those teachers who choose to work in those environments. Unfortunately, I have never seen nor heard of such praise or rewards from the unions -- which could be because of my limited exposure to publications sent out by the unions like "The Slate".
July 12, 2008

6:19 p.m.

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fntsymtn writes:

As for the comments posted by those who blame the teachers for everything, I would expect that the good teachers, the ones with thick skins, would understand that these posters are mis-guided and can (and should) mostly be ignored. One does not become a teacher seeking the respect, admiration, acknowledgment or praise from people like Mike486 and Louie.

It is unfortunate that the unions that intend to serve and protect teachers are the biggest detriment to positive change in the education system regarding compensation. "Radical" compensation plans (like pay for performance) are largely dismissed by education unions but they represent opportunities for change in a system that obviously has been unable to solve it's own problems.

While I realize that public education is largely different than private industry or even college and universities, the basic principals for running a successful business still apply. Pay your employees what they are worth, do what it takes to keep your employees reasonably happy, and provide an environment that people want to work in. The primary difference I see here is competition. Private industry and universities must compete to retain their employees and professors, I do not see that competition in our public education system save the by-product of NCLB where students can leave a failing school after a number of consecutive poor performing years. The primary reason teachers leave districts today is poor working conditions, hardly a competitive reason to leave.
July 12, 2008

6:24 p.m.

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fastnloose writes:

Let's run the schools the same way we run business,the harder the job,the more you are paid.Why is it the P.E.teacher is on the same pay grid as the Algebra teacher?Can you say,the union did it.I never could figure this out,until I watched the teachers union up close.They want parity on all pay,benefits and retirement.
Can you imagine running business on these terms,all employees paid the same?Only your time spent in the district alters your pay amount.Pay the instructers in the hard areas more(math,science) and less dollars to those in the less demanding classes less.Not all classes are equal when it comes to time and effort in teaching.
July 12, 2008

9:03 p.m.

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Brockage writes:

Take the Manual High School approach. Have all hand in resignations and start over from scratch -- that's the only way Denver will ever get rid of the crumby "educators" who ride along on the backs of the effective teachers -- the union will see to that. Viva la huelga bro.
July 13, 2008

4:46 a.m.

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LOUIE writes:

COCO, I raised four children in DPS, my fifth child went to private school and is now graduating medical school back east. I am going to explain my "ugly" comments for your better understanding. My youngest daughter went to Godsman Elementary. I was active everyday in her education. They gave me a piece of paper, saying she was gifted and talented, when if fact she was 3 grade levels behind. Then Ms. Sandra Shane the principal came out with a new ruling, there would be no homework the entire school year. Her reasoning was the children, predominently minorirty and below the poverty level, were stealing school property and using thier backpacks to carry the stuff out. COCO, that was the last straw, this school was all but failing, and the leadership lied to me and then sought to put my daughter further in the hole by doing away with homework. I quit in the 8th grade, I struggled to get where I am today,; I wanted better for my children. Thus she was lucky to get into West Denver Prepatory School. From 8am to 5pm my daughter is in a highly structured school, under a principal deeply motivated to student achievement. If 8 hours of in school each day isn't enough, my daughter has 2 more hours of homework each night. If she has a problem, she can call her teachers any, and I mean any, hour of the night. DPS is never going to match the dedication of Mr. Gibbons and his staff. They make far less than DPS teachers, so don't use money as an excuse. Every DPS school in my neighborhood is below satisfactory, except McKinley-Thatcher. Yes COCO, it is ugly. Oh, and those minority children Principal Shane called thieves, my daughters school is over 90% minority and below the poverty level and is the top achieving school in all south Denver. Needless to say, Mr. Gibbons brought my daughter 2 grades above her level in math, and she is just at grade level is reading. That's a far cry from 3 grade levels behind and some teacher lying and telling me my daughter was gifted and talented, (I still have the paper). "Ugly isn't the proper word for DPS, but MR. Temple doesn't allow expletives on this site as editor. What DPS has been doing to the community is terrible. A high school diploma from DPS isn't worth the paper it's written on. More money? I perfer more dedication. I watch Mr. Gibbons do miricles with the least in our society, you can have your money pit and it's failures. Enjoy, as a member of a sucessful family in the world of business, I don't suffer fools well. Mr. Bennet's last employer was a billionaire, far above most in America in the world of business. He didn't suffer fools either. Mr. Bennet is an extremely brilliant man; but don't worry, the firmly entrenched failures at DPS will most likely prevail by sheer numbers. COCO, "ugly" is a gentle phrase for what DPS really is, a money pit and a failure. I'll back every word I've just written!
July 13, 2008

4:56 a.m.

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LOUIE writes:

COCO, just in case your offended by my grammatical errors and misspellings, I apologize. Having quit school in the eighth grade, my academic abilities leave much to be desired. My business acuments I will put up against anyone. The family who took me in off the streets is worth millions. I am state raised, and quite proud of it. Challenge me, I love a good debate! If it weren't for a hack handing me a Bible to read in my cell as a kid, you'd suffer worse grammatical errors and misspellings. I apologize again.
July 13, 2008

5:04 a.m.

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LOUIE writes:

Oh, COCO as far as your question what I do for a living, if I told you, it would reveal who I am to many who have walked through my doors. I'd rather remain unknown personally, but I will have the respect to respond to your writtings. If ever you feel my attack was personal, I have the courage to apologize. I will try to stay focused on the subject you bring to the table.
July 13, 2008

6:29 a.m.

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Alive writes:

How can public schools even exist in a time when parents, for what ever reason refuse to teach their children any type of respect for anyone?

I can imagine what a living hell it would be to try to teach the little horrors produced by today's abundance selfish, petty, dysfunctional adults. Hard words I know, but truth.

Today's teachers are little more than baby sitters, forced to push leftist indoctrination on the children by our heavy agenda educational policy makers. The teacher no longer has any authority in the classroom, and these kids know it. Today's teachers even risk their life in some schools.

It seems to be that many sane people would avoid teaching in public schools for the reasons cited above.

I feel the days of public schools are numbered. Perhaps all learning will have to occur online, which will really anger those parents who send the kids off to school so they can have some "me" time.
July 13, 2008

6:59 a.m.

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LOUIE writes:

ALIVE, there is a grain of truth in what you've written about lazy parents, who want to sit on thier behinds and blame others. That's fair enough. But what about parents like myself who get totally involved with thier children's education, what thier excuse for failing me? I made an office downtown for my 12 year old daughter, she earns a paycheck just like our employees; she spend everyday with me and my wife because not only do we love her, we'll never have these beautiful years in her young life ever again. She has a computer in her office, slot machines, antiques, all the things I never had. Key is, she earns these things. So what is DPS's excuse to a parent like me? Mr. Gibbons, my daughter's principle, doesn't rest on excuses, why should DPS be allowed too? He took in the lowest performing children by lottery, in our community, and made them the highest achievers. Respect is something you earn. Mr. Gibbons has more than earned the respect of his position. So, either DPS can learn from a highly educated motivator like Mr. Gibbons, or they can continue to wallow in self pity for thier failure to society's children. Your excuse works for the lazy parent, I agree, but how does it apply to the motivated parents who have been made to suffer also? I believe it's because the system totally needs to be rebuilt from the bottom up. That's where Mr. Bennet comes in. He has one hell of an uphill battle fighting the firmly entrenched failure that are at fault. Dedication and pride are the precursor to sucess; but for now lets here the rest of the excuses, the kids will pay regardless of if thier parents are involved or not.
July 13, 2008

7:16 a.m.

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LOUIE writes:

By the way, DPS can't stand Mr. Gibbon's sucess; it's making fools out of thier arguements. Instead of looking at the keys to what he's doing that is working, they ignore him. The Rocky Mountain News putting his school on the front page 6-7 times last year for academic achievement, didn't help them any either. Ignorance is bliss. A big portion of his students don't speak english very well either, but that never stopped Mr. Gibbons from giving them the best education possible. Another excuse the man shot down, poverty was the first.
July 13, 2008

8:19 a.m.

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vudumom writes:

Louie, DPS and the public school system do not want parents like you. They say they want parents to be involved but only if your a "yes" person that believes everything they tell you and you do not challenge anything they say. They only kids and parents that make it through a regular public school education are "stay within the lines" people. If your child is behind they will deny it and lead you to believe your child is at "their individual level". If your child is ahead they will deny that also telling you they are not and doing whatever they can to dumb down the child. If your child stays within the lines he or she will do well, at least on paper.

I had a kindergarten teacher tell me it was abusive to allow my then kindergartener to read books harder than kindergarten level. She was reading 2nd grade level and doing 1st grade math on her own. That set the tone for a three year battle with the school system. I have pulled her out and she begins a homeschool online school this year. She is supposed to be going into 3rd grade. However she tested 4th-5th grade in all subjects, so she begins a 4th grade program this year.

I had no other choice. I cannot afford private school and I cannot afford to allow one more year of dumbing down my child. My other child begins a International Baccalaureate program this year. I'm hoping this is good for her.
If a person cannot afford private school we are doomed if we have above average students in the public school system. I feel sorry for the children that are behind. They have it worse.

The stuff I've seen in public schools are depressing at it's best. The children that are going through the system and not getting an education is setting the stage for a future that is bleak. The stuff they are teaching or most important not teaching is shocking.

If something is not done within the next 5 years to turn our school systems around it will be hopeless.

Your daughter is very fortunate to have parents looking out for her.
July 13, 2008

10:08 a.m.

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fastnloose writes:

Letting kids learn at home on computers? What would that do to the institution of public education?Perhaps not make it the "MONOPOLY"it currently is.Colleges are heading in that area,why not give it a shot.No need for large staffs or multi million dollar school buildings.Think about it.Parents could actually see what is going on in the class,end to lazy teachers.Only the best would survive and earn that lovely retirement.
July 13, 2008

10:44 a.m.

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LOUIE writes:

Vudumom, if you can't get into West Denver Prep, try KIPP. There are some charter schools that have made a big difference and teach a child not at the grade level but the level of the child's ability. DPS's one size fits all is another glaring example of failure, and I am glad you mentioned it. You see there are parents that will stand up for thier kids, and DPS doesn't like thier input. It destroys thier excuses for failure, and like COCO they think your input is "ugly". I accept the opinions of others who oppose me with good arguements, they cotribute to the evolution of my own opinion with thier disagreement. Never I pray should I be so stubborn as to not listen to those that oppose with substance. COCO is right however, it is time to get "ugly" about the problem; it's destroying too many children and especially the minority children who are dropping out in large numbers. West Denver Prep and KIPP have purposely targeted the minority community along with all people, thus removing and debunking a long standing myth that DPS has used for decades. There is no reason for the disparity amongst the different peoples, all are capable. The minority community has increased thier numbers, now they need to make thier presence felt. As an anglo, it can only serve me better to empower them. Thier sucess is my sucess, thier childs achievement is my childs achievement, thier rights are my rights. I have 3 hispanic sons, two anglo daughters, 4 grandchildren of everything, when you empower your fears, you are better for it. That's why I don't vote along party lines, I want the best man (or woman) to lead my nation. Good luck with home schooling, one of the children in my immediate family is home schooled and far above grade level. I, like many don't have the ability to teach, and I am a felon having started out life working for the underworld of crime before changing my life over twenty years ago. In a southern prison is where I was schooled; I grew up state raised, served in the Army, and I've live everywhere in this country and a spell in Panama. Life is the greatest teacher. DPS needs critical readjustment, the resistance to change is a huge obsticle. Mr. Bennett is extremely bright, it's going to be a major fight or he'll give up to the overwhelming opposition and it will go back to the same old failures we have saw for decades. You have to study the man Mr. Bennett used to work for to truly appreciate his abilities. You don't work for this man in the position Mr. Bennett held, unless your one smart individual. Some charter schools like the one in Mountbello were used for the personal gain of individuals with criminal implications that is true. Hopefully, Mr. Webb was able to salvage and clean that school up for the sake of the children. West Denver Prep and KIPP are two totally different animals that are chewing away at DPS's long standing failures with great sucess. Good luck!
July 13, 2008

12:24 p.m.

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BetterEducated writes:

Dear Coco,
I want to back up Louis by saying DPS has personally made me a bitter, spiritually ugly person. Before dealing with the District as a parent and, many years later, as the wife of a longterm worker, I really believed in the American process and its extension by implication through the state government and into the local governments like DPS. But I don't believe anymore, and frankly this change in me has been all for the worse.
I'm VERY sorry to say that I eventually learned the District is an evil, rogue governmental institution that nobody wants to regulate. If you do not fully understand its history and the very unworthy roots from which its plant continues to grow, please google these words: Keyes v Denver Public Schools.
Once you read that US Supreme Court decision -- all of it -- and really digest the fact that the same attorneys who defended (at public expense) historic DPS practices constituting blatant racial discrimination, are still its attorneys today....maybe a little bit of curiousity will come to you about where, exactly, it has been headed and what, exactly, motivates it to believe it is entitled to do harm to real, live human beings in the name of public education.
Coco, I would not want your essence to be damaged as mine was by looking into the Deep Dark Pit of Colorado history and seeing the current face of DPS staring back at me. That entity is just plain greedy and overempowered -- period. Thank heaven it's not just me looking at it anymore...but if YOU are going to look -- wear your shades, because your innocent ignorance is precious and can't be restored. Trust me, as mine is gone forever.
July 13, 2008

3:09 p.m.

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fastnloose writes:

That loud woosh sound you will hear shortly,will be DPS teachers headed to the burbs.Once they are cleared thru PERA for their pensions,they will be gone.
July 13, 2008

4:41 p.m.

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BetterEducated writes:

Amen to that, fastnloose!!!
What I am waiting for is the loud cry of lament when DPS participants in PERA are given fewer benefits than the other PERA participants. Just for example: If you leave PERA early, you get a matching amount from the state to meet your own contributions over the years. Know what you get at DPS if you leave early? Your own money back plus a minimal amount of interest.
It's not really a pension plan unless you reach the end -- which a very low percentage of non-administrative workers do. Until then, it's a DPS-mandated savings account that pays low interest and allows the district to use the excess earnings on your money to fund benefits to (mainly administrative) retirees.
Such a deal!!
Would anyone like to work for me and give me all their interest earnings on a mandatory "pension" contribution that exceed 3-5%? I promise to give it back in only 25 years. :-)
July 13, 2008

4:55 p.m.

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BetterEducated writes:

PS: Am I the only one who thought it poignant, in the accompanying photo, that the DPS Superintendent is the silly-looking youngster in the middle -- instead of one of the other two gentleman -- who both looked much more (a) as though they came from Denver and (b) as though they were savvy to the issues?
No matter what else is said and written, Bennett sure does have that Eastern Ivy League, highly-paid, squeaky-pale look about him.
July 14, 2008

1:49 p.m.

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BetterEducated writes:

OK, since I already stooped so low as to comment on personal appearances.....
Ms. Union President: Please cover up your well-endowed chest.
July 14, 2008

1:58 p.m.

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BetterEducated writes:

(Ms. Ursetta, your ample attributes are not shown in the picture published with this article, but in other pix published elsewhere, it's apparent you really like a certain low-cut style that reveals Altogether Too Much of what you were bleslsed with.)
It's cheating to represent professionals by showing off your body.
I don't wear black hose and high heels anymore either, so please don't take these comments personally. But as we get older ... and you are old enuff to take this to heart .. we don't want to be seen as Talking Heads on a good-looking body.
Buy a cardigan sweater or a series of turtlenecks -- and wear them. For your own sake, and for the sake of the professionals you purport to represent. They have given YOUR union their right of EXCLUSIVE representation with DPS, please demonstrate you take this seriously and do away with a certain dress in which you have been photographed too many times ... you know the one. :-)

Home › News › Education

DPS pay plan loses its luster

Obama no longer mentions once-touted, now troubled merit system

By Nancy Mitchell, Rocky Mountain News (Contact)

Published July 11, 2008 at 11:45 p.m.

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