Epileptic dies during treatment
Hospital monitor not watching as man has seizure
By Brian Maass, CBS4 News
Published July 10, 2008 at 10:35 p.m.
Updated July 11, 2008 at 7:03 a.m.
Photo by COPY PHOTOGRAPH
Charles Gray and his wife.
A 64-year-old Westminster grandfather with epilepsy died after the University of Colorado Hospital left him unmonitored for more than an hour during a test in which they had taken him off nearly all of his medication.
The hospital is accepting responsibility for the lack of monitoring that apparently contributed to the death of Charles Gray, who had entered the facility in good condition, hoping to improve his health, only to end up dead four days later.
A CBS4 investigation found that Gray was left unattended in the hospital for 65 minutes in October, a gap his family believes led to his death.
"I have no doubts my dad would be here today if they monitored him the way they said they would," said Teresa Napowsa, one of Gray's three children.
'He wanted to give'
Gray suffered epileptic seizures his entire life. They prevented him from driving, working or supporting his wife.
"He wanted to give, not receive," said his younger brother, Steve.
Gray entered University Hospital's Epilepsy Monitoring Unit on Oct. 15 so doctors could study his brain, learn more about what was causing his seizures and possibly operate on him at some point.
He was placed in a room with a video camera, and the live video feed went to a nearby monitoring station. Gray was one of eight patients being monitored.
The hospital assured Gray he would be cared for and observed round-the-clock. They gave him a form letter that said, "There will also be a neurodiagnostic technologist in the monitoring booth at all times to maintain the equipment and gather data."
Steve Gray said his brother trusted the hospital.
"He was very confident this would go well, that he would be monitored 2 4/7, and he had given his full trust and laid himself open to that hospital."
The round-the-clock monitoring was crucial because doctors weaned Gray off his epilepsy medications to intentionally induce seizures so they could better understand what was causing his medical problems.
"An epileptic, when in seizure mode, needs someone with them," Napowsa said. "And we all had complete trust in the hospital that they were going to care for him and watch him."
But on the fourth night of his stay, hospital records show the technologist who had been monitoring the video feed from Gray's room left the post at 11:50 p.m. to get something to eat and check on two other patients. Twenty-eight minutes later, Gray, who had been asleep, suffered one of the seizures doctors were trying to induce.
But there was no one watching, no one there to help. Hospital videotape of Gray provided to CBS4 shows the seizure caused Gray's face to press into his pillow, apparently cutting off his oxygen supply. He stopped breathing a few minutes later.
According to hospital records, it would be another 37 minutes before the technologist returned to find Charles Gray unresponsive.
Efforts to resuscitate him were unsuccessful. The Adams County coroner listed his cause of death as "seizure."
The hospital says its protocol at the time allowed staff members to leave the monitoring station unattended for short periods to check on other patients, get food or take a break.
Gray's family was stunned to learn he was not being monitored round-the-clock, as the hospital had promised.
Hospital makes changes
"My family put their trust and faith in University Hospital to deliver what they said they would, and they chose not to," Steve Gray said. "They chose not to deliver on the promises they made to my brother to ensure his health and safety through this process."
The families' lawyer, Kyle Bachus, said the hospital's protocol defied logic.
"Common sense would tell you if you are going to take them off meds and you're going to cause severe seizures to occur, somebody has to be there to help."
About 3,000 patients have been through the epilepsy monitoring program without serious incident during the past 20 years, according to Dr. Steven Ringel, of University Hospital.
He said the hospital was "troubled by this" and has made changes "to increase safety of the hospital so something like this never happens again."
'He didn't die in vain'
Ringel said the monitoring station is now constantly staffed. If a technologist needs to leave, someone else takes over so patients are always being watched.
Ringel said there will no longer be any gaps in monitoring of patients in the epilepsy unit. Additionally, he said a system has been implemented so that if a patient's breathing decreases, an alarm goes off, summoning help. "He didn't die in vain," Ringel said. "We're going to make changes to prevent this from happening to someone else."
Ringel acknowledged that if someone had been monitoring Gray on the morning of his death, there was a "greater likelihood" he would have survived the seizure. "We do feel responsible for it," he said.
Gray's family is considering suing the hospital, but since University Hospital is a government facility it's covered by the Colorado Government Immunity Act and the most it could be held liable for is $150,000. Family members say this isn't about money but about holding the hospital accountable for its actions.
"It doesn't seem fair," said Napowsa. "It doesn't seem right."
Contact Brian Maass at bmaass@cbs.com
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July 11, 2008
12:17 a.m.
Suggest removal
Domino writes:
Every one who has lots of hospital tests knows that they can and will be abandoned by the staff. I have felt panic when I have been left in a room halfway through a procedure and anger when the doctor finally came in and could not understand why.
I would hope that this incident forces them to change their ways.
July 11, 2008
12:47 a.m.
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Voutyblonde writes:
It is the nitwitty, twenty-something new grads that hospitals put into positions that they are not mature enough to handle...they can pay them less than seasoned professionals. I have my own horror story of being diabled by an illness and left on a narrow table following an ultrasound at UCHSC. When the young girlie tech was finished with me, she said, "Okay, you can get up now," and she left the room and went to lunch. I laid there calling out for help for over 45-minutes until someone returned from lunch and then proceeded to make fun of me and my predicament. "Logic" and "ethics" should be a required and ongoing continuing education program for these kids who hold our very lives in their hands. They certainly don't get it from their parents.
July 11, 2008
2:34 a.m.
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Who_Me writes:
Hey Yogi, I don't think the ranger is going to like that.
July 11, 2008
3:56 a.m.
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LOUIE writes:
Having watched the investigative report on channel 4, I'll be damned if I ever trust like this man did. He even had it in writting, they were going to monitor him without interuption or breaks; the hospital lied big time and left the guy unattended for over an hour. Denver Health just settled a big lawsuit for wrongful death by letting a lady die needlessly. Now another state hospital has done grievious harm to a patient that was totally avoidable. It is another reason I reject socialize medicine. The quality of healthcare will even be worse. Other than trama units, city hospitals and state hospitals are the pits in customer service and elective medical proceedures. I pay good money for my healh insurance, I have always used Swedish Medical Center. If you have nothing, you have nothing to lose, go to a city or state run hospital. If you have the financial means, private hospitals like Swedish are far superior. Every year Swedish makes the top 100 list of the nations hospitals, there is a reason, it's called great healthcare and customer service. Government hospitals from the VA to the city are the worse places to go unless you need thier Trama Unit, which is far superior to any in this one select area of medicine. Some universities like the University of Michigan, Ann Arbor are top rate. However today with managed healthcare, much of thier revenues have dried up and these once cutting edge universities now suffer at the hands of poor state funding, which will get worse in this economic downturn. If you have the money, I would suggest you avoid government run hospitals for elective medical needs. Why do you think most all professional atheletes go to private facilities? I've seen Broncos, Nuggets, Rockies, and other like Willie Shoemaker at Swedish; you're not going to see them at Denver Health or University, unless it's an emergency and they need the Trama Unit. The Trama Unit is Denver Health's only crown jewel, the rest of that place is terrible regardless of how much remodeling and building they've done. Not saying these government hospitals don't have a great purpose in assisting the poor and those without means; but I like the best in medicine, so I pony up for good insurance and work my heart out to afford it for my children. These flagrant stories of poor medical care resulting in million dollar settlements like Denver Health just suffered, and like this case is another reason I do not favor Government healthcare for everybody. One shoe doesn't fit all, some of us want and earned better. You can go to Payless Shoes, or wear Brumo's, this is America, choice should always be an option.
July 11, 2008
4:13 a.m.
Suggest removal
happymike44 writes:
I am pretty sure this guy's family would rather have him alive.
Then all the money in the world don't you think?
They made a mistae and now will be paying for it.
Wonder if these doctors will face any punishment,probably not is my guess.
This guy suffered needlessly because someone left him alone.
The people responsible for this need to be dismissed from their job.
So that the other staffers know what happens when you screw up.
July 11, 2008
4:23 a.m.
Suggest removal
LOUIE writes:
Denver General gave me great care in thier Trama Unit when I took an armed robber's bullet, it was afterwards when they left me in thier new addition with dried blood all over me from the shooting. Two days later, my wife had to bath me to get the dirt and blood off me. Then the idiots went to throw out the bullet the cops needed for evidence as they left it on a tray next to my bed for two days. I had to carry it to the police after telling the janitor not to throw it out. Trama Unit is great, the rest is terrible. My insurance company paid 30,000 dollars to the hospital, couldn't they have at least washed the blood off me?
July 11, 2008
4:35 a.m.
Suggest removal
Domino writes:
Even though I have my own "horror story," I must still trust my doctors and the hospitals. More times than not, I have expressed my fears and one of the nurses or techs will go beyond their normal duties to calm me.
Who else is there to turn to? My doctors have kept me alive. I have had many operations and if I did not trust those in the operating room, I would have backed out of those procedures and surely died.
So, anyone who says they cannot trust the hospital, doctors or staff either have not needed them or will live a miserable and shorter life. I have seen it. Any hospital professional who ignores or mocks a patient should not be in that position. Hospitals have complaint procedures, and yes, they do take complaints seriously, be they government-run or private.
University Hospital will take this seriously. Because of their state run status, they have to face not only the state boards, but the elected officials and their constituents to whom they answer.
July 11, 2008
4:51 a.m.
Suggest removal
LOUIE writes:
Problem is Domino, state and city hospitals are a necessary evil because of the uninsured and the indigent; no private hospital will take these clients. Thus being in a position were society needs them, they act quite flagrant. The people who have money and means would never tolerate this lack of competent care and rude customer service that these necessary evils dish out. They don't have to compete, thier on the tax dole because they handle the bulk of welfare cases. Private hospitals have to compete with other hospitals for revenues, they are not on the tax dole. Thus the level of care and customer service is by far superior to the state haspitals which the government keeps afloat with tax dollars. Competition brings the best to the top.
July 11, 2008
5:36 a.m.
leroypaula writes:
(This comment was removed by the site staff.)
July 11, 2008
6:46 a.m.
Suggest removal
Domino writes:
Problem is Louie, you are a reactionary. And uniformed. Hospitals cannot refuse anyone due to their ability to pay.
If we had a single payer insurance system, this would not even be discussed.
University has one of the top transplant teams in the country. It has been on the cutting edge for many decades. Denver Health has the top emergency room in the region.
And by the way, how about the medicare fraud that went on in the private hospitals in the ninties owned by Columbia/HCA to the tune of a settlement by the private firm of $1.7 BILLION?
July 11, 2008
6:57 a.m.
Suggest removal
MRSTTYLER writes:
NOW YOU CAN'T EVEN TRUST THE HOSPITALS WHAT NEXT.
July 11, 2008
7:18 a.m.
Suggest removal
Littleboyblue writes:
what bothers me most is the uncomncerned attitude that seems to occupy the nurses station on each floor. It's like you're almost afraid to ga and ask them for anything...big time attitudes. There must be a 30 minute waiting period for requests for assistance...is this just me or have others felt this as well?
July 11, 2008
7:28 a.m.
Suggest removal
jtriska writes:
Those darned interns.
July 11, 2008
7:47 a.m.
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Ottis writes:
Very sad. And even sadder that this would be a bigger deal if the lawsuit damages were not capped at $150,000. That explains why the hospital is so quick to accept blame. Without the cap, you would be reading much different statements.
July 11, 2008
8:08 a.m.
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LOUIE writes:
Yes Domino, Columbia along with many other private hospitals suffer big losses with medicaid and other government systems that do not even cover the costs of treatment. Denver Health and University get bailed out at the taxpayers expense when the suffer losses, the private hospitals have to pass it off on the paying customers as thier is no government bail out. Thus your right, they did get investigated and some felt it was time, like many physicians have already done, to turn government reimbursements away. The government reduced the fine to a small fine when Columbia/HCA threatened to stop taking medicaid and medicare patients. The government is a poor customer as well. Some of my doctors don't even want a medicaid or medicare client because they lose money with them and it's not worth it unless they have a supplimental insurance to go along with medicaid or medicare to cover what the government is not going to pay for. Thus enter insurance companies like Secure Horizions and others. No reactionary , you'll find the city and state hospitals here in Colorado have a long standing and well deserved reputation for poor customer service. Yes, all hospitals have to take you in on an emergency, and that's where hospitals like Denver Health benifit from totally insured clients like myself. However they are the last choice for anyone who has the means when it comes to elective surgeries, why? Because they have a reputation for treating the paying client poorly. Go down to Denver Health, all you see is the homeless and uninsured for the most part, and that's great it serves a real need in our community. It used to be both Denver Health and University fought with each other trying to shove the indigent off on each other because both realized the cost of these patients to thier bottom lines. Yes, the government is the poorest paying client and often ends up costing the hospitals that treat them more than the government will pay. I hope you're not going to rely on the government for your health care when you retire, you might find your choice of physicians quite limited.
July 11, 2008
8:41 a.m.
Suggest removal
mhow88 writes:
What complete idiotic lack of responsibility and thinking on this hospital and the technician who was supposed to be monitoring!!!!!! Makes me wonder why we pay such high costs for medical care but receive such poor and uncaring service from them!!??
Feel bad for the family and thoughts and prayers are with them for their great loss... This hospital should do anything and everything to help this family for their mistake..
July 11, 2008
8:51 a.m.
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danirobi writes:
My thoughts and prayers are with the family!!!
July 11, 2008
8:53 a.m.
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PonchoVia writes:
Having spent time at a number of hospitals for my loved ones, I have been stunned over and over at the real lack of concern shown by most hospital employees. I cannot believe the lack of caring, compassion and concern shown by the staff at hospital these days. And I'm sure the hospital management/ownership doesn't help matters with their primary focus typically being the "bottom line". I am very sad that this happened, but not surprised.
July 11, 2008
8:59 a.m.
Suggest removal
Mar10 writes:
Hey LOUIE, just so you know Swedish has a epilepsy deal just like UCH has and there is NEVER a tech in the room watching, it is not even staffed! Why is everyone harping on the tech? If you read the article it says that they were allowed to leave. Sounds like the problem comes from higher up.
July 11, 2008
9:02 a.m.
Suggest removal
hdfresh writes:
" The hospital says its protocol at the time allowed staff members to leave the monitoring station unattended for short periods to check on other patients, get food or take a break."
Short periods to take breaks is certainly not an hour especially when you are monitoring seizure patients that can have one at anytime. It is only common sense to have somebody there while breaks are given.
July 11, 2008
9:28 a.m.
Suggest removal
Diana writes:
This great man was my husband's life long friend. He was the most giving person I had ever met. He loved life and he enjoyed making others feel good. He was a gift to all who knew him. He is in God's hands now. I know his family is in pain as well as the many friends he left behind. We will all meet again one day. Until then, Leory we love you.
July 11, 2008
9:51 a.m.
Suggest removal
winterwoman writes:
My father has epilepsy and it can be a vicious thing if someone is not around to help. I can't believe that they would promise such a thing and then not follow up on it! You would think that they would know better? Seriously, they are doctors...right?
I too have seen first hand how horrible the Doctors are at any hospital. I was sick for several months at the beginning of the year and it took them a month and a 1/2 to figure out I had pneumonia. Yes, I had x-rays, but a bad technichian didn't read them correctly. I also had 3 ER visits and 12 Doctors appointments! I found out yesterday after going to a specialist that the medicine they gave me to treat the pneumonia was the wrong one for the type I had, needless to say the doc's messed up big time and I have had pneumonia since January.
July 11, 2008
10:11 a.m.
Suggest removal
ezekiel777 writes:
the changes they've made, i.e. "make sure someone is there before you leave" are something that ANYONE should, could and normally would DO WITHOUT NEEDING ANY FURTHER INSTRUCTION WHATSOEVER.
why should procedure policy substitute for basic common sense and normal decency?.... do you have to be FIRST told to be diligent? must it be written down FIRST before you do it...?
THE HOSPITAL'S RESPONSE TO THEIR OWN NEGLIGENCE IS NUTS!!!!!!!!
July 11, 2008
10:28 a.m.
Suggest removal
Cowboy63 writes:
You think it's bad now? Wait until health care reform/socialized medicine is a reality - You'll wait in line 6 months before you die due to neglect. See how it's working out in Canada - it's great (as long as you don't need anything serious).
This guy was no more than a glorified lab rat to these technicians. Studies like this aren't concerned with the families.
$150K cap for damages - it will cost the family that much in lawyer's fee even before they collect.
July 11, 2008
10:40 a.m.
Suggest removal
rickg19611 writes:
Dumbest post of the day...
"Yet another reason we need health Care reform."
Yeah... sure thing dimwit. NOTHING like this would EVER happen in a VA run hospital?!?!?!?! The GOVERNMENT RUN health care system for veterans that has been notorious for far more frequent errors and mistakes like this example.
Those of us who have served in the military and treated at a VA run hospital know from EXPERIENCE that government run health care is NOT a solution for mistakes like the one suffered by this poor guy. VA hospitals (the ultimate government run health care system) are notorious for making far more mistakes like this one. So the low IQ crowd thinks that moving from a system that produces some mistakes to a system that causes FAR MORE mistakes is a solution? They need to lay off the "medicine" they're buying on a streetcorner.
What next from the low IQ crowd? Claiming this tragic screwup that cost a guy his life is proof that some snake oil selling clown running for political office needs your vote?
July 11, 2008
10:48 a.m.
Suggest removal
rickg19611 writes:
"since University Hospital is a government facility it's covered by the Colorado Government Immunity Act and the most it could be held liable for is $150,000 "
THANKS GOVERNMENT! Government run health care at its best! Not only does the government screw up in its error prone health care system and kill an innocent man, they cover themselves by refusing to allow his family to seek any justice against the government run health care that killed the guy!
Government run health care reform = expanding this proven, error prone, government run bureaucracy to EVERYONE!
July 11, 2008
11:19 a.m.
Suggest removal
Conservativeslayer writes:
It seems everyone is missing the big picture here. Why was there only one attendent monitoring these patients? Because paying two people would cost more then one. Now that someone is dead, the hospital realizes what the true cost of it's penny-pinching ways. As for Louie, you sound like the typical republican piece of garbage. You have health insurance and everyone else that don't can take a flying leap. You got yours, that's all the matters. I'm sure you consider yourself to be a christian too. I'm sure Jesus would love your attitude. Your a human piece of stool.
July 11, 2008
11:23 a.m.
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mari_p writes:
To begin, I have heartfelt sympathy for the family of this man. I would never argue that this should not have happened. I am not commenting to dispute this fact.
My problem is with the reactions towards healthcare providers as a whole present in so many posts. I can see why there is a shortage of healthcare providers (in my case, as a nurse). Imagine a job in which people speak to you in an adversarial & rude manner the first time you meet. You are not even given the chance to give them good care. You try to give the best care everyday, despite the many obstacles of time & resources. However, for some, you will never be good enough.
So many people nowadays equate healthcare provider with negativity. I went into nursing because I truly felt I had the skills to help other people. However, we are not superhuman. Please give us a chance when you need healthcare. Soon there really will only be unfeeling healthcare providers left who are only in it for a steady income.
July 11, 2008
11:44 a.m.
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LOUIE writes:
Conservativeslayer, without the mindless drivel, I noticed the democratic champion of your cause, Ted Kennedy, went to the finest medical facility his money could afford. What, he didn't believe in his own product when his life was on the line? Government hospitals as I said before serve a great purpose for those who have no means, but don't make healthcare a government run must for everyone, some of us like Mr. Kennedy want better!
July 11, 2008
11:56 a.m.
Suggest removal
LOUIE writes:
Oh, by the way, your friend Jesus chose tax collectors, publicans, even a thief on his last day. Yes pal, he chose the outcasts to reveal His glory. Yes, I bow to God, I just don't subscribe to your wonderful human definition, and power to speak for God. Seems once man decided what God likes and dislikes, things got a little bloody for his creation. But you know God, and I am sure he gave you, a sinful human being, the sole power to speak for him. I used to love the born again christians when they asked me if I had a personal relationship with God. I always responded that I talked to his Mother this morning! LOL!
July 11, 2008
11:57 a.m.
Suggest removal
YourNeilness writes:
To all the socialized-healthcare-aphobes out there:
Single payer health care is not government run heath care, its government run health insurance. So, it’s not “one size fits all”, as Louie puts it. You still have choices of doctors, hospitals, etc. and doctors and hospitals still work for themselves, not the government. It just means that when that doctor or hospital submits the claim to insurance, they submit everything to one insurance company instead of 100 insurance companies with 100 different sets of rules about what is covered and how much. There is one set of rules and the doctors would all know them, so practically all claims get paid, because they know how to treat the patients under the guidelines. Consequently, doctors don’t have to employ a team of workers whose only job is to submit claims to insurance companies and argue and negotiate with them about covering treatment. Typically, a doctor can employ just one person to run the office, submit claims, make appointments, etc. Less stress, less cost.
As for Cowboy’s claim about “wait in line 6 months before you die due to neglect”, it is a myth that this happens in Canada due to their single-payer system. Here’s what happens: In Canada, most of the hospitals and doctors are located in the southern portion of the country (understandably so). The people in those areas get their treatment in a timely manner most of the time. However, in the north and in the less populated rural areas there are less doctors and hospitals available (again, understandably so, it’s cold and barren up there!), so sometimes those people experience delays in care. But that would be the case no matter what type of health care system they have. It has nothing to do with the single-payer system.
I hope this helps allay the fears about single-payer health care, and my sympathies to the family of this poor man who was the victim of bad policy and practice.
July 11, 2008
noon
Suggest removal
Conservativeslayer writes:
Hey Louie, you know that Kennedy's healthcare comes from the government, don't you? As a senator his health insurance is goverment provided. So much for your BS argument. Here's a question to all you RW'ers that constantly belittle Canada, France, England and other countries socialized health care system. If socialized medicine is the absolute nightmare that you guys constantly claim it is. Why if all those countries are democracies, don't the voters demand change to our system? If our system is so superior, why don't they do that? If Canada's medical system is so heinous? Why did the Canadians recently vote the greatest Canadian to ever live, was the man that gave them socialized healthcare? If their system is the nightmare you claim it is, wouldn't they have voted him the worst Canadian to ever live? Fact is none of the countries with socialized medicine would ever change to our system.
July 11, 2008
12:10 p.m.
Suggest removal
Cowboy63 writes:
Conservativeslayer writes: "You have health insurance and everyone else that don't can take a flying leap."
Yes, that's right. People put their money (and time) where their priorities are. Let me see your calendar and your checkbook and I'll tell you what is important to you.
You sound like some kid living in his mother's basement who could care less about bills and insurance - until you need it. Then comes the mad scramble to find someone to stick with the tab.
July 11, 2008
12:15 p.m.
Suggest removal
LOUIE writes:
Yes, and England has the highest tax structure in the western world. Socialism stiffles free enterprises with heavy taxation. Medicine is not free. The government can't efficently run itself and stay in a budget without going into deficit. Last thing we need is higher taxes on businesses that are already laying people off. It will be another big government money pit that will cause even greater debt, Secondly, America is not financial structured, nor politically structure like the nations you mentioned. Our businesses are not government subsidized, they are private and free. England has high taxes because it subsidizes everything from airlines to medicine. You are comparing apples to oranges, America is not a socialist nation. Canada relies heavily on U.S. industries, we catch a cold, Canada gets the flu!
July 11, 2008
12:25 p.m.
Suggest removal
Colo_Medic writes:
There are some misconceptions on some posts: University of Colo Hospital is not a state-run hospital; they do not receive any taxpayer money or government subsidies. The hospital has its generous share of athletes, politicians and other high-profile patients, just like Swedish and other area hospitals. In this tragedy, protocol was followed and standard of care was met. Like, Swedish, University Hospital has also been named as a top ten hospital in national rankings. However, there are so many entitites that rank hospital, each with different criteria, that most hospitals can claim to be 'a top hospital.'
July 11, 2008
12:35 p.m.
Suggest removal
rickg19611 writes:
"Single payer health care is not government run heath care, its government run health insurance. "
And you're gullible enough to believe that if there is only ONE payer (government bureaucrat system), that it won't exert control over the health care system?
Just ask anyone involved in health care about the effect of Medicare (which is just a little taste of the bureaucracy to come if government takes the place of ALL payers for health care).
" There is one set of rules and the doctors would all know them, so practically all claims get paid, "
Yeah... just look at Medicare.... same system. And the result is SUBSTANDARD CARE. If your government run health insurance system (Medicare) is so great, why do people who can afford it, pay extra for insurance?
Did Ted Kennedy use his Medicare to treat his brain cancer? NO! Congress, which has over 60% of its members eligible for Medicare, has ADDITIONAL INSURANCE to cover its members because they know that Medicare (single payer insurance plan run by the government) is SUBSTANDARD!
"it is a myth that this happens in Canada due to their single-payer system. "
And then the FACTS show that to be a myth itself.
Studies by the Commonwealth Fund found that 24% of Canadians waited 4 hours or more in the emergency room, vs. 12% in the U.S.; 57% waited 4 weeks or more to see a specialist, vs. 23% in the U.S. - Commonwealth Fund, Mirror, Mirror on the Wall: An International update on the comparative performance of American health care, Karen Davis et al., May 15, 2007.
In a 2003 survey of hospital administrators conducted in Canada, the U.S., and three other countries, 21% of Canadian hospital administrators, but less than 1% of American administrators, said that it would take over three weeks to do a biopsy for possible breast cancer on a 50-year-old woman; 50% of Canadian administrators versus none of their American counterparts said that it would take over six months for a 65-year-old to undergo a routine hip replacement surgery. Yet U.S. administrators were the most negative about their country's health care system. Hospital executives in all five countries expressed concerns about staffing shortages and emergency department waiting times and quality. - Confronting competing demands to improve quality: a five-country hospital survey. Blendon RJ, et al. Health Aff (Millwood). 2004 May-Jun;23(3):119-35. [PMID15160810
Single payer health care in the US already exists in the form of Medicare and the VA Health Care system (VA acts as single payer insurance plan whenever local VA health care services are not locally available). Both systems are riddled with problems. Just as this GOVERNMENT RUN health care provider screwed up and killed this innocent man whose only mistake was trusting in GOVERNMENT run health care.
July 11, 2008
12:42 p.m.
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LOUIE writes:
Colo_Medic that is true about University Hospital as far as funding, I should have been more specific when referencing Denver Health's governmental support. My apology. Problems that confront the universities are the HMO's that refuse to pay for expermental proceedures, thus drying up a lot of thier funding. Many college facilities have suffered financially with the introduction of managed healthcare; that is sad. I don't see socialized medicine as the answer however.
July 11, 2008
12:42 p.m.
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catlady writes:
Hospitals and care facilities are more dangerous today. I personally think this has to do with cost savings implemented to help the bottome line. In many hospitals a common lay person is the individual giving you care. Hospitals are allowed to determine who can perform what on you. For example, in a hospital, a patient care technician (who is unlicensed and unregualted) can place a urinary catheter in a patient. In other settings, like nursing homes, a nurse (who is licensed or registered) has to perform this procedure. In assisted living residences, group homes and other settings costs are cut by allowing lay persons (with 16 hours or less of training) to pass every possible schedule and type of medication. The health care industry is always looking to cut corners by having lesser and lesser qualified person provide you with care. Where doctors and nurses once gave care...there are now lay persons with minimal or no training. When these lay persons kill or injure, there is no license to take and they just move on to the next victim unscathed.
July 11, 2008
12:45 p.m.
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Conservativeslayer writes:
Well Louie, arguing like a typical republican. When confronted with the fact that Kennedy's healthcare is government provided, you just move on. Never admit you're wrong. Then you don't answer my other question. If their health care systems are as bad as you claim. Since they are democracies, the voters could demand that they change to our system. Why don't they? Of course you have no answer to my question. So you do what republicans typically do, change the question in your head and give the answer to the question you created. I do have to laugh at your claim that our businesses don't receive government subsidies. Did you ever hear about the Bear Stearns government bailout? What about the government bail out of the airlines after 9/11? I could go on but there's no need. We don't have a "free market" in this country. We never have and we never will. When big businesses get in trouble, they always go running to the government for a bail out. Which they usually get.
July 11, 2008
12:49 p.m.
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Cowboy63 writes:
How many people are standing in line for an iPhone right now with no health insurance?
You get what you pay for.
July 11, 2008
12:49 p.m.
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fefe writes:
oh my God yack yack yack yack !!!!!
Anyway my prayers are with the family.
After all talk and agrue til your all blue in the brain they are the one's that lost a loved one.
So may peace be with them !!!!
July 11, 2008
1:04 p.m.
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rickg19611 writes:
"Kennedy's healthcare is government provided".....
Sure, Kennedy bypassed his government run single payer system known as Medicare, and used the private market health care system so he could get the best care.
Congress, chooses to use taxpayer money to fund their own SUPPLEMENTAL health care insurance through the private market. This is what Kennedy used, since he and his family knew that the Medicare system is substandard.
Hypocrites. They demand that they bypass Medicare and have taxpayers buy them private supplemental health insurance coverage, that gives them better care than they get from the Medicare system. The same broken single payer system that they want to foist onto citizens with their "healthcare reform schemes".
Just as this poor guy became the victim of a government funded and run hospital that cost him his life.
July 11, 2008
1:25 p.m.
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LOUIE writes:
Conservativeslayer, I belong to a family of selfmade businessmen. My family has made thier millions that is true. We also worked the last twenty years without vacations to make this success. We didn't let people control us by paying us by the hour, instead we used the hour to maximim benifit for ourselves. We started out poor, gambled ever thing we had, threw out security of a 40 hour week schleping for some corporation, and made the American dream. You? Now, I vote for the party who best represents this country as a WHOLE. Sometimes it's a democrat like Clinton, sometimes it's a republican like Reagan. I do not favor socialism, I favor free enterprise, and the ability to dream free. Lastly, my families annual taxes are most peoples complete wages for the next ten years. My family has never layed off one employee, we cared enough about the employee and his family to teach him new tricks in a new business. What does corporate America do in rough times? You better hope if your going to work for someone, it's a family like mine who cares about the individual as well as the bottom line. I came up state raised, I didn't like poverty or living hand to mouth; so I gambled on the American dream. If your scared say so, but don't make me live at the mercy of the govewrnment handout, I want better! Tell me about the wealth of your democrats and I'll tell you how they aquirred thier wealth. Mr. Kennedy perhaps? No, he didn't go to a military or government physician when his life depended on it. Mr. Kennedy sought out the best his money bought him with priveledge. Don't you want the same priveledge? Be a U.S. senator, first you'll have to get rich on your own. Are you capable? If not, be glad you live in the richest nation of individuals on this earth!
July 11, 2008
1:25 p.m.
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rickg19611 writes:
Oh Canada.... where even more people are killed by failing healthcare than at the government funded University of Colorado....
"A February 28, 2006 article in The New York Times quoted Dr. Brian Day as saying, "This is a country in which dogs can get a hip replacement in under a week and in which humans can wait two to three years."
"A January 19, 2008, article in The Globe And Mail states, "More than 150 critically ill Canadians – many with life-threatening cerebral hemorrhages – have been rushed to the United States since the spring of 2006 because they could not obtain intensive-care beds here. Before patients with bleeding in or outside the brain have been whisked through U.S. operating-room doors, some have languished for as long as eight hours in Canadian emergency wards while health-care workers scrambled to locate care."
"In 2007, it was reported that Canada sent scores of pregnant women to the US to give birth. In 2007 a woman from Calgary who was pregnant with quadruplets was sent to Great Falls, Montana to give birth. An article on this incident states, "There was no room at any other Canadian neonatal intensive care unit."
"Treatment time from initial referral by a GP through consultation with a specialist to final treatment, across all specialties and all procedures (emergency, non-urgent, and elective), averaged 17.7 weeks in 2005. The longest of all industrialized nations. - Fraser Institute report on healthcare wait times in Canada.
"One of the major complaints about the Canadian health care system is waiting times, whether for a specialist, major elective surgery, such as hip replacement, or specialized treatments, such as radiation for breast cancer. Studies by the Commonwealth Fund found that 57% of Canadians reported waiting 4 weeks or more to see a specialist; 24% of Canadians waited 4 hours or more in the emergency room."
"A March 2, 2004 article in the Canadian Medical Association Journal stated, "Saskatchewan is under fire for having the longest waiting time in the country for a diagnostic MRI — a whopping 22 months." Almost 2 years to get a diagnostic MRI. Yeah... sounds like a great system... if you are suicidal!
"Champion figure skater Audrey Williams needed a hip replacement. Even though she waited two years and suffered in pain, she still did not get the surgery, because the waiting list was so long. So she went to the US and spent her own money to get the surgery."
"According to a September 14, 2007, article from CTV News, Canadian Liberal MP Belinda Stronach went to the United States for breast cancer surgery in June 2007. Prior to this incident, Stronach had stated in an interview that she was against two-tiered health care." - Just like Teddy Kennedy. Bypass the system they want regular citizens to use, and instead use their private means to get better health care.
July 11, 2008
2:07 p.m.
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FlyfishDude52 writes:
Conservative Slayer - You must be an idiot to have espoused the crap that you have regarding a poor guy (and his family) who was only hoping to help himself a bit & potentially others a great deal. I fail to see how this has anything to do with your self-styled agenda. Your comments should revolve around compassion for the family who has lost a loved one.
Other than that it is beneath by dignity to respond to your rant(s).
My sincere condolences to the Gray family.
July 11, 2008
2:40 p.m.
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Conservativeslayer writes:
Flyfishdude what the F are you talking about? Did you even see my original post? When did I say anything bad about the poor guy that died? Here's a suggestion, take a reading comprehension class and then report back to us.
July 11, 2008
2:52 p.m.
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Diana writes:
EXCUSE ME BUT DID YOU WATHCH THE VIDEO? LET'S HAVE RESPECT FOR THE DEAD AND HOW HE DIED. KEEP YOUR NASTY COMMENTS TO YOURSELVES AND BE GREATFUL FOR WHAT YOU HAVE. Charles "Leroy" Gray was a great man, well respected and greatly loved.
July 11, 2008
2:53 p.m.
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FlyfishDude52 writes:
Seems to me you'd better see what you said; trying to turn it into a conservative- liberal situation, which it isn't. unless of course you're referring to the "bigger government" scenario by having two people do the work of one... The article was about the guy not your agenda!
July 11, 2008
3:05 p.m.
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LOUIE writes:
My deepest apology Diana; I accept responsibility for much of the arguement on this thread. Yes, I watched the video last night and it was most shocking. My sicerest apology and I will refrain from any further discussion out of respect for your wishes; God be with you...
July 11, 2008
3:30 p.m.
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Voutyblonde writes:
Hey Conservativeslayer - I'm moving back to Denver at the end of the month. Can I come to work for you? I like how you think.
July 11, 2008
3:31 p.m.
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thebruisedreed writes:
An hour is not a short period. If the tech had followed the guideline, Mr Gray would still be alive.
July 11, 2008
6:56 p.m.
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Joysann writes:
I'm currently being seen at University for my sezures as well, it has been trying at best. I was originaly given a Dx of a conversion reaction after a motor cycle acident over 9yrs ago at n. suburban. on 1-17-08 @ sweetish i was told i had a tumor or a leasion on my brain and epilepsy. because i'm on medicaid it had been hard to find Dr.'s who are equiped to deal with my Dx's. My last intern at UC i realy liked but he has rotated out after telling me that the it was a leasion and it was caused by the accident 9 yrs ago. he has sugested to me that the Epilepsy study would do me good... now i wonder if i should persue it or not. not to mention I'm fighting to keep my medicaid right now so I may end up w/o any medical Tx or Rx real soon any way.